WEBVTT - Estée Lauder in Talks to Buy Puig to Create Beauty Giant 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:10.559 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.560 Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.880 Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.040 Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.080 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.400 Kind of a merger Tuesday, if you will. Es Da 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.120 Latter Companies is in talk to buy pooge brands and 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.800 a deal that would create a cosmetic giant about twenty 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.239 billion dollars in annual sales. Here, let's get some more 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.600 details on this transaction. We're joined by Clara Lizarraga. She 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.760 is company's reporter for Bloomberg News. She is based in Madrid. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.440 Clara tell us a little bit about pooge brands. Who 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.279 are they and why do you think Esday Lauder is 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.560 in talks to acquire them? 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:56.640 Hi, Paul, thank you for having me. 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:57.240 So. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:03.000 Pooje On, like Estilos, gets most of its revenues from fragrances. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:09.360 It owns major brands like Carolina Raban, brands that have 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.640 products that have consistently been amongst the top ten best 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:17.880 selling fragrances. So for essay Loader, it would help strengthen 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.120 their position in this category of fragrances where they currently 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.200 get about seventeen percent of their revenues, And as you said, 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:29.160 it would create a much larger company with a stronger 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.440 exposure to Europe and Latin America and help it compete 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:38.200 more efficiently against rivals like Laurel for example. 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.560 So, Clara, I guess the thing with essay latter is 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.680 that this is a company in reorganization mode. It's got 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.080 this plan to focus on niche luxury price fragrances. Does 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:55.120 buy and Boots fit into that very specific strategy. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.520 Well exactly, So this is These are some of the 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:01.040 questions that have that have been asked to so whether 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.680 this is the right time for a stayloader because they're 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.840 in the middle of streamlining operations. They were at some 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.760 point reviewing underperforming brands to see if they could divest 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.520 from some of them and focusing on higher and more 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.440 profitable products. So there are questions about whether a deal 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.400 with Pooje now would one be the right fit and 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.960 also would be the right timing considering these other complex 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:33.200 problems need to be resolved. The reaction so far so 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.520 stay Lads shares have been falling yesterday and again today, 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.399 So it would seem that these concerns are are definitely 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:43.679 weighing in. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.320 And Push is a family owned I know the CEO, 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.280 Mark Push, a member of the founding family, did give 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.680 up that role, but he is executive chairman. 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.560 What role does the family play in this company? 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.680 So the family owned most of the capital and over 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:06.600 ninety percent of the voting rights. This is the third 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.200 generation of the family and part of the reasons behind 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.480 the IPO that happened less than two years ago was 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:22.200 that they wanted to plan succession and prevent any tensions 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:27.120 that could arise relating to generational change by listing the 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:32.680 company and making sure that the you know, the future 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.839 generations would be owners of the company, but not necessarily 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:40.400 in operational roles. So in that sense, a deal could 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:44.600 go in further in that direction. But it also is 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.120 surprising to think that the family would relinquish control over 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:51.760 this company, which is over one hundred years old. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.160 Yeah, there's so many things to have to kind of 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.680 reconcile here. We talked about how Essay latter would want 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.200 to add to its fragrance line to widen that portfolio. 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.720 But the thing about Pooge is that it also operates 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.640 as you mentioned Carolina Herrera and Nina Ricci. These are 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.840 all fashion brands. They present collections during the Paris Fashion Week. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:13.960 Is that something st a Lotter wants to get into 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.360 or is it that something that say Lotter might I 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:21.000 don't know divest or would that be part of the acquisition. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.560 I think it would because so in essence, the poo 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.440 strategy has been to buy brands. They make fashion, but 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.880 they also create this image around the brand, and then 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.680 thanks to that they sell the fragrances. So it sort 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.239 of goes together and it's hard to separate the fashion 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.040 from the fragrances. I think in that sense it would 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.640 be complimentary to estay Loader. I guess the question is 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.479 Pooge also has a smaller part of the business that's 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.960 called niche brands, so things like bi Redo, another one 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.359 called Latis on Perfumer and these are much smaller brands 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.120 with higher price higher prices that the company has been 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:07.120 wanting to scale. But they currently account for roughly ten 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.680 to fifteen percent of revenues according to analysts. So that's 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.120 something that would be interesting to essay Loader that there 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:18.320 are questions about really how much can that grow and well, 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.960 would they want all of these kinds of fragrances or 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:22.480 only certain brands? 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.720 Is there any regulatory concern here about this deal getting approved? 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.720 There's some concerns on the makeup side, so Pooh Jones 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:36.120 are Charlotte Tilbury, which I believe is the third largest 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.640 makeup brand in the US, and so there could be 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.560 issues on that front. But on the f grons front, 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.400 I think it's it's not a problem. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:48.320 Stay with us. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.600 More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us Live 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.760 weekdays at ten am. He's done on our Billcarclay and 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.040 Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.640 wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.000 One of the things that the Bloomberg Intelligence folks are 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.080 looking at is gaming out a recession scenario. That may 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.120 be a little bit more on the front burner now 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:17.279 with what's happening in Iran. 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.160 And one of those industries. 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:20.800 That you really have to be on the outlook for 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.320 should the economy soften is the US auto business. And 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.800 Steve Man joins us here Global Autos and Industrials Research 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.200 channels for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us live here in our 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.320 Bloomberg at Directive Broker studio. So, Steve, I mean the 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.479 auto business. I mean cyclical business, but also one that's 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:43.640 undergoing profound transformation, trying to make this transformation to electric vehicles. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.000 Probably not a lot of spare capital. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.120 Lining around the cushion during if the economy were to soften. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:50.680 How do you guys think about it? 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.360 Well, yeah, the industry did take a lot of write 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.280 offs because you know, the EV sales are not going 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.920 to be what it expected, especially in the UA. And 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:05.039 we were actually coming into twenty twenty six relatively positive 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.480 for the auto the big Detroit Big three because Trump eliminated, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.760 you know, the penalties on gas guzzlers. We thought, you know, 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.240 they're gonna you know, these these automakers are going to 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.920 push out these you know, pickup trucks and shuvs with 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.680 high margins. And that's how we came in looking at 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.640 the industry at the being twenty twenty six. And then 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.600 this the war broke out right, and gas prices are 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.080 at where they're at. If you talk to the people 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.640 that actually buy and sell gas oil, it's like one 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.160 hundred and fifty bucks right on the ground. So it's 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.000 gonna it's having a huge impact. Gasoline prices are up 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:47.640 thirty forty percent where I'm at. So now the talk is, 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.400 you know, are they going to sell that many pickup 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.120 trucks and SUVs? 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.360 Especially with interest rates rising. That means auto loans also 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.600 become more expensive for consumers. But people will still need 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.280 cars and they will still need to upgrade or replace 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.520 their aging vehicles. Where does that leave the automakers? I mean, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.600 do people go to secondhand cars? Do they take another 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.400 look at hybrids and evs in this environment? 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.400 I think it's a combination of both. The third thing 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.640 that could happen is they keep their cars a little 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.600 bit longer. You know, that's going to benefit companies like 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.160 O'Reilly AutoZone that actually sells after market parts. You know, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.040 a lot of a lot of consumers, especially in this 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.360 k economy, those are looking who are looking for value 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.120 in affordable vehicles'll will hold off, you know, even if 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.440 interest rates are lower. You know, they they want to 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.880 make sure, you know, the jobs are stable and before 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.719 they spend twenty thirty forty thousand. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.960 Dollars how much is a new car again on average. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:50.840 Average is fifty thousand. 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.800 Yeah, and I'll tell you my boy Joe is car 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.240 in his car repair shop in mask on his lot 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.240 is packed, man. I mean he's got more business what 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.520 to do with. So that goes to your point. Yeah, 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.160 people are keeping the cars longer. You know, if we 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.440 get higher for longer fuel prices, does that revive maybe 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.000 some demand in EV's and the hybrids. 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:17.439 It might look We actually looked at figure out when 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.240 looked at what the worst case scenario is. We looked 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.400 at past oil shock all the way back to you know, 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.559 the Iranian revolution back in the seventies, and we're coming 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.760 up with Okay, worst case sales in the US could 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:35.680 drop as much as fifteen percent. Now the pie is shrinking, 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:40.000 but even within that pie, the split is changing definitely. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.559 I think it's no surprise if oil prices are high, 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.760 it has happened in the past, people will be more 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.360 interested in hybrids and this time around, you know, battery 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:52.120 evs as well. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.120 Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence coming. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:56.599 Up after this. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.720 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.840 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.199 Auto with the Bloomberg Business App, listen on demand wherever 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.360 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.000 One of the issues from an M and A perspective 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.120 with the second Trump administration is this is going to 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.000 be a very good time to get M and A done. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.480 The regulation the regulators. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.280 Whether it be the Federal Trade Commission, the Department of Justice, 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.400 maybe be more accommodative. And I was certainly the expectation, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.960 and I from what I understand, that's turning out to. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:34.960 Be the truth. 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.360 And we want to focus on one particular deal because 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.720 it's a deal that I'm very familiar with having covered 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.120 the media industry for a while, and that is next Star, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.280 big TV station owner, buying Tegna. Another big TV station owner, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.600 Jennifer re joins us. She's senior litigation and analyst from 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.520 Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us live here in our studio. So 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.720 as I understand it, Next Star again, a huge owner 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:58.920 of TV stations across the country, hundreds of them close 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.000 its purchase of Tech, which are the old TV stations 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.760 owned by Gannett Company, the newspaper company that closed. Yes, 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.319 from the regulators like the Federal Communication Commission, the Justice Department. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:12.839 Blessed the deal as people thought they would. 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.000 That's right, that's this administration. But there's still some suits 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:17.040 going on. What's going on with. 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.880 That right, So that expectation that the Department of Justice 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.920 and Federal Communications Commission will go ahead and allow that 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.560 deal to go forward, I think ramped up a group 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.120 of states to be ready to try to go after 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.360 this deal. And it's because the states have been saying 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.480 many states have been saying, and not just democratic state 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.760 attorneys general, but in a bipartisan way. The states have 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.760 been saying, if this administration lacks anti trust enforcement, if 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.760 they start allowing a lot of consolidation across many industries, 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.160 we're going to pick up the slack because states have 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.480 the right to enforce federal anti trust laws and they 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.520 have the right to go after a merger that they 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.080 believe is unlawful under the anti trust laws, just as 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.679 the Department of Justice or Federal Trade Commission do. So 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:59.800 that's what we're seeing here. You have eight states that 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.760 have said this wasn't right for different reasons. The FCC 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:09.120 approval was improper for certain reasons, the Department of Justice 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.720 clearance was improper for other reasons, and we're going to 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:13.240 go ahead and go to court to try to see 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:13.960 what we can do here. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.199 I've been doing this mediam and a thing for a 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.840 long time. I've never really seen this before. I'm sure 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.160 it's been out there. So this is basically the state saying, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.400 for what a reason the federal governments from our perspective, 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.120 from our point of view, is not as as strong 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:32.760 a regulators it needs to be there for, We're going 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:34.000 to pick up the slack and do it from a 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:34.560 state level. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.480 Yes, have we seen this before? Not a lot. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.880 Normally, the states are sort of aligned with the Department 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.040 of Justice or any of these agencies that are reviewing 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:43.400 a deal. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:44.520 We have one. 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.320 Example from several years ago when T Mobile and Sprint 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.839 merged that they settled with the Department of Justice. They 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.080 divested some assets to Dish and the Department of Justice 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.280 went ahead and cleared the deal. The FCC cleared the deal, 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.000 and the states went to court. A group of states 0:12:58.040 --> 0:12:59.760 I don't remember exactly how many, I think it might 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.959 have been round ten went to court to try to 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.920 block that deal. And you know a lot of people 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:05.640 would say, and I'll say in this case too for 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.800 next Star, that once you have the federal regulators that 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.920 have approved these deals. It is very difficult for the 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.520 states to then go into court and convince a judge 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.160 that the experts that cleared the deal were wrong. The 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.920 states lost in the T mobile sprint effort, and you know, 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.760 we don't know yet what's going to happen with Nextstar, 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.320 but they do go in with a tough case to 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.440 make once the FCC and dj have approved, which they have. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.520 So are they doing this these states? And you say 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:35.000 it's bipartisans So it's not just democratic states that maybe 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.920 wanted to just go against this administration's regulatory policy. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.679 I think in this case it may simply be democratic 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.720 states the ones that have sued Nextar. We also have 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.400 states that have are continuing litigation against Live Nation that 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.200 originally the Department of Justice had joined them with was 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.080 the lead plaintiff. The Department of Justice settled with one 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.880 week of trial. The states on a bipartisan in a 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.160 bipartisan way, have gone forward to continue that litigation. So 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.360 we are seeing bipartisan efforts in that area. With the 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.360 Next Star Tegna, I'd have to look at those eight 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.760 states to see the attorney generals whether they are Democrats, 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:09.480 or Republicans. 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.800 If your Next Star you close this deal, if you 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:14.160 pay Tegna the money. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.840 Yes, Is there any risk to Next. 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.120 Star that somebody, some judge could say you got to 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:19.880 unwind this thing. 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:21.760 I think that risk is low. 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.960 I think actually getting an order saying you must unwind 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.600 this is low. If there's some kind of a liability 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.480 decision yet this deal was anti competitive, my guess would 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.520 be the more likely outcome would be some divestitures of stations, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.400 which is honestly what I thought would have happened with 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.760 this deal with the Department of Justice to start, if 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.680 it had followed kind of its long standing tradition with 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.080 respect to TV broadcaster deals. Usually, the Department of Justice 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.240 would ask these companies, including Nexttar, which has divested all 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.320 sorts of stations doing deals in the past, to divest 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.520 in a local area called a DMA in this case, 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.680 to divest if they would own more than one of 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:03.640 the local affiliates of the Big Four, which are NBCCBS, Fox, ABC. 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.240 And that rule today, having done a million broadcasting M 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.640 and A deals in my life, seems so antiquated to 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.880 that it was antiquated twenty years ago. But now with 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.680 all the streaming, and I mean it's like, who cares. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.480 Well, that's the argument the defendants will make, and that's 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.800 what the Federal Communication Said Commission said in part in 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.440 approving this deal. But I will say that there was 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:27.320 an Eighth Circuit decision about the FCC's every four years 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.720 it reviews its rules, about its review of its rules, 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.520 and that narrow market definition focused on those broadcast stations 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.760 in the Big Four was challenged, and the Eighth Circuit 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.720 didn't reject that. They rejected rules changes for different reasons, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.680 but not because of that market definition. And the thing is, Paul, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.760 I know viewership has changed radically, right in the last 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.080 ten twenty years. You've got all the cord cutters. You 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.000 have people who've never even heard of a cable subscription. 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.680 But you still have a set of consumers that get 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.920 those cable subscriptions or FiOS or whatever it is. They 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.200 want those local stations, if they want sports, they want 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.040 the local programming they can get. And if you have 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.800 a discrete set of consumers that could be harmed because 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.800 prices go up, it can still be an ag trust harm. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.200 Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.800 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.920 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.280 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.440 you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.400 Switch gears. We'll go to healthcare, as we like to do. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.680 There's always news coming out of the healthcare business. There's 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.240 always M and A trades and this is no different. 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.920 Pfizer trying new They've been working on a line disease 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.640 drug here and they recently had I think they had 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:47.720 a study. It didn't really impress too much, but I'll 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.280 tell you, in this part of the country, lime diseases 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.280 no joke, boy, A lot of people. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:53.520 Get it debilitated. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.560 Yeah, and it affects you for life, even if you 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.600 get over the worst of it in the first two years. 0:16:58.760 --> 0:16:59.920 So there's just another air. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.320 We're kind of waiting for the great science of the 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.640 pharmaceutical and biotech industry to come to the rescue. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:06.960 Sam Fazelli joints just Bloomberg Intelligence, director. 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.880 Of Research for Global Industries and a senior pharma analyst 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.320 for Bloomberg. So, Sam, what's going on with Pfizer, What's 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.600 going on broadly with this little niche field of limes disease. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:20.359 Lime disease, Paul. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.280 So all those farmers and folks who go out into 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.600 fields have a risk of that. Of course, anyone who 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.359 goes out into a into a green space, and you 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.760 know I've got a bit of a garden, I'm sure 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.439 you do. And those ticks, man, they do like your 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.840 legs and anything that's nice and hidden in there to 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.679 go and have a bite at. And all your animals 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.479 suffer from it, et cetera. So those animals can take 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:48.120 drugs to prevent ticks, but there's really no such thing 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.680 for humans. And I mean the vaccines have been around, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.880 but lime disease vaccine is something that would really be 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.800 quite an attractive option for those who are at risk. 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:01.080 The question is would take a lime this vaccine? But 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.880 these guys had some data. It's data from a vaccine 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.639 that they're developing with a French partner called Valeva. It 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.480 has been in development for a while and I'm just 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.480 reading the details here again off the screen on the 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:15.440 blueberog terminal seventy three percent effective against the tickborne illness, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.280 which of course can be as bad as in supply 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.760 tast and causing major then longer term issues. So the 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.520 few problem with seventy three percent, I mean, you know, 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.520 is that good enough these days? I mean, think about 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.840 the COVID. COVID vaccines now are in background of people 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.320 having lots of COVID infections, are in the fifty to 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:43.480 sixty seventy percent range effective against hospitalization. Now that's on 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.679 the background of lots of COVID infections. Here you're not 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.200 you're testing it literally against somebody having no immunity. So 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.520 seventy percent is not particularly high. So it'd be very 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.439 interesting to see what they're regulator to say about this. 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:57.880 Sam. I'm kind of confused. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.520 Why are there no current human vacs scenes from lime 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:02.639 disease on the market. I mean, there was something I 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.879 believe back in on late nineteen nineties from GSK, But 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:11.879 this seems like something that's there's a real demand for efficacy. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.000 We need efficacy, we need the effectiveness. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.119 Sorry, in vaccine world, I've forgotten now all those years 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.840 of writing about COVID you need vaccine effectiveness, which is 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.679 how much does it protect you, how long does it 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.240 protect you for? So this is something that I think 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.879 would be interesting to see whether this result is better 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.280 than what folks had been used to. But again, if 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.680 you took this, you're only three quarters of the way. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.200 Let's say protect it and I'd like to see the data. 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.480 How long does it last? Do you need another shot? 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.879 Who takes this? I mean, do we want to everybody? 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:51.000 I mean people are hardly taking infectious vaccines where they 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.000 can pick it up in the subway. 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:55.320 Are they going to worry about this? Take this? 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.560 Those are questions right astim At the beginning of President 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.679 trump second term, there really a lot of threats towards 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.000 universities and maybe some of their medical research. Has that 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.680 in fact come to fruition. Our funds being withheld or 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.159 funds being pulled. Is that impacting university research? 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:19.960 There has been some more uncertainty created funds not being released. 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.960 There's been a lot of those situations arising. Of course, 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:28.080 it's not just grants going to universities. It's also direct investments, 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.680 for instance by the NIH which has a huge budget 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.280 and age gives us grounds. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.600 But they also have research institutes, Institute for this, institute 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:41.119 for that. So there has been some effects. People are worried. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.919 The number of people seeking to do PhDs in the 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.639 STEM world has declined. I don't know what the latest 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.320 statistic is, but has definitely declined. And that's really not 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.800 helpful because it is this foundation of science that then. 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.160 Builds the future innovations. Right. 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.840 I don't think that that's I don't think that's rocket science, right. 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.400 So I don't know why this became such a big thing, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.359 but I'm wondering whether it was just noise and it 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.160 was playing to the public and this kind of eventually 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:12.480 going to dissipate and go back to what it normally was. 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.440 And of course Congress needs to get in there. 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.560 You've seen him, for instance, Quurt's coming back saying what 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.359 the HCHS has done isn't right for vaccines, et cetera. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:22.800 So maybe this will happen here too. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.359 This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.040 and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:35.800 weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.480 the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.840