1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load. The 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: Michael Very Show is on the air. The following feature 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: has been rated R. 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 2: It is intended for mature audiences. 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 3: I just wanted to say to everyone out there, I'm 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 3: no longer mainlining acid or smoking PCP. 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: It's official. Now you know the rest of the star Joy. 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: You like movies about gladiators. What if your childhood Amolia 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 2: fu ve shoes, Take me on, Take me. 10 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: Your mother was a hamster and your father smite off Calaberry. 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 3: How much you want to make a bet? I can 12 00:00:59,040 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: proll a football over them. 13 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: Mountain don't need food. 14 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 3: What are you kidding? We got some family here. 15 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: Not all well, so love until tonight, then one and 16 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: more bye. 17 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: Well, it is an honor for me and decades in 18 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: the making. But Gordon Bethune is our guest. Welcome to 19 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: the show, sir, Thank Michael. 20 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here. 21 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to bounce around a little if I may. 22 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: With it being Thanksgiving upon us, lots of us are 23 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: going to get on planes and all of us are 24 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: going to have complaints over this or that. You spent 25 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: a lifetime in the airline business. If you could be 26 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: king and you could be in charge of the airline 27 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: business as you were at one point in continental airlines. 28 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: What's the low hanging fruit that could be done to 29 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: make the customer experience better immediately? 30 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: Well, you know, a lot of it is a structure 31 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: of the funding of the air traffic control system. And 32 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 2: although the customer doesn't identify with it personally, it really 33 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: controls everything that he or she encounters. So I would 34 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: go for a privatization of the air traffic control and 35 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 2: put that on a business like basis and clean up 36 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: that part of the operation. That would give us better 37 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: results I think on running airlines in this country. 38 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: And so that would affect presumably on time performance, and 39 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: I guess that trickles down to the overall experience. How 40 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: big a part of on time performance is that issue 41 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, the air traffic control portion. 42 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's it's huge because it you know, it set 43 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: staffing levels at federal air control centers. It's throughout permeates 44 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: the whole system. I would take you know, the FAA 45 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 2: currently is in charge of that and they would be separate. 46 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 2: But the air traffic Control SYSM like in Canada, it's privatizing. 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: It runs on a business like basis and it runs 48 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: real well, and it's just like a watch, Michael, you 49 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: know if it's really not valuable unless it works reliably 50 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: and on time dependably. So that's what the ATC system 51 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: has to is the backbone of the system. It has 52 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: to be on time and it has to be reliable. 53 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: During your time at Continental, which is what I'm most 54 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: familiar with, not Brand, If Western, Piedmont, the other airlines 55 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: where you work, but Continental, I was a frequent flyer 56 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: and Continental was a pleasure to fly, and I know 57 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: you were not a big fan if. I recall of 58 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: the United takeover and the fear was it was going 59 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: to have Chicago values and it has. The customer service 60 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: experience went away. But it feels like all of the 61 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: airlines now it's as if the customer is resented. And 62 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: where did that go wrong? 63 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure. It's very subjective what you're discussing. 64 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 2: I think if you do the clean, safe, reliable, that's 65 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: the three metrics that you need to be in the 66 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: airline business, most of the other customer dissatisfaction will go away. 67 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 2: Laid misconnection, my lost bags, all those things are from 68 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: unreliable operations. So once you get the airline on time, 69 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: and I think that's what we enjoyed it. Continental is 70 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: an on time airline and that put us back at 71 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 2: the top of Jdpower and Customer Satisfaction awards. 72 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: You also were named top place to work year in 73 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: and year out. I'm assuming obviously people that enjoy their 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: job are going to be better to the customer. What 75 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: went wrong that it doesn't feel like the people in 76 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: the airline enjoy their jobs anymore. 77 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: Well, you know, to be honest with you, you use 78 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: the term the airlines when they're all separate companies and 79 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: they have very different reaction times and customer satisfaction scores. 80 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: So it's not an industry metric. But the airlines are 81 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: a bunch of different companies and the most successful ones 82 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: are the ones that keep customer metrics of statis customer 83 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: satisfaction on their plate. First thing is be on time, 84 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: safely and bring the guys underwear, and that's kind of 85 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: all you really need to start off doing reliably and 86 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 2: the rest of the stuff just gets better. 87 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: You spent time at Boeing and I think you were 88 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: responsible for the production of the B seven thirty seven 89 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: and the B seven fifty seven airplanes and you were 90 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: a a VP there. Boeing, a once proud American company. 91 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: You know, we sort of puff our chest out. This 92 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: is a great American company the world looks at as 93 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: distinctly American. What's going wrong there? 94 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: It's so sad. It just once again, a culture changed 95 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: when they did an acquisition a ge. It became more 96 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: of a finance driven metric of success. And I think 97 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: it had lost a lot. Myself and a whole lot 98 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: of my friends really missed the old Boying. I think 99 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: the Boeing still is a very very good company, the 100 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: best there is, quite frankly, but it's really at a 101 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: low spot, and I sure hope they pull it back together. 102 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: The world needs Boeing. I mean, there's not enough capacity 103 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 2: to build enough airplanes for the world's needs, so somebody 104 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: has to be out there. And I think it'll be 105 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: going again one day. 106 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: I hope. So it's a great American story. And as 107 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: you said, the world needs Boeing. They just announced a 108 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: few days ago that they're doing away with their DEI 109 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: Department Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Your thoughts, well, you. 110 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: Know, as a matter of priorities, I would probably do 111 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: the same thing. I don't want to say they don't 112 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: add value, But right now, we need to keep the 113 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: airplane flying, and you need to work on things that 114 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: matter most, which is quality delivered every day and that 115 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: construction and the design of the airplane. So it's not 116 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: a top of mind kind of metric that I would 117 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: start if I were rehabbing Boeing today, I wouldn't start there. 118 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: When you look at the airline industry, there's been bailouts 119 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: over the years, and it feels like some of the 120 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: airlines are always teetering one or the other. And you 121 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: know there's the legacy issue for the legacy carriers and 122 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, retired pilots and retired employees. It feels like 123 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: that industry, much like American car making, struggles to make 124 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: a profit. Is there anything that can be done to 125 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: change that? 126 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: Well, Michael, you're poking at human now, So I think 127 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: it's pretty universal. I guess when you are doing really, 128 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: really well, you always want more, when in fact, sometimes 129 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: you should just be happy with what you got. And 130 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: in the cycles of the American business, there's good times 131 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: in bad times. That is like the canary and the 132 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: mind shaft. When the economy starts going south. You'll see 133 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: it in airline travel first, because reduced earnings, reduced productivity everything. 134 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: So maybe there's maybe we just get spoiled. I know 135 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: there's a sense of entitlement because it used to be 136 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: a regulated industry, so that you know, if you missed 137 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: your flight, they have to put you up in a 138 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: multi hundred dollars room at night, and all the kind 139 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: of things that's that's gone, that's forever, and maybe we 140 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: just all thinking we should get that again. You're doing 141 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: a great show, I miss Russambau right now. 142 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 3: You right there was a placement, Michael Berry. 143 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: You you shan't handle it and market be some of 144 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: the best and aware. All my bags at pack, ready 145 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: to go. 146 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm standing here outside the door. I hate to wake 147 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: you up to say goodbye, but the dawn is breaking. 148 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: Gordon Bethune is our guessing. I read the other day, 149 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: maybe it was late last week that that was the 150 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: first day that a new law went into effect that 151 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: if you are significantly delayed, and that was on a formula, 152 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: that there was a payment that was due to you. 153 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: I don't know to what extent you still keep up 154 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: with all this sort of stuff, but it sounded like 155 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: a move to go back to that. 156 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 2: Well, you know that's all bs Michael. Quite frankly, it's 157 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: very subjective. But you know, the on time is an 158 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: important metric that runs almost all the other If the 159 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: airplane's not on time, the baggage will be late, you'll 160 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: miss your connection, you will be late. So it just 161 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: goes snowballs downhill. I think I think they're doing a 162 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: pretty good job today given the size of the business 163 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 2: and how well the economy is doing now that. But 164 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 2: then when you really get spoiled, I guess is the word. 165 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 2: You've always thought you ought to get more, and so 166 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 2: you just over ask and probably destroy the benefits of 167 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: the luxury of making a profit there. It just takes 168 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: all the wind out of your sails. So I don't 169 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 2: want to say it's all labor, but sometimes people ought 170 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 2: to be happy with what they have today, not always 171 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: thinking you want to get more every time you. 172 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: Gordon Bethune is our guest. 173 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 3: You're you. 174 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: I read that you spent summers with your father, who 175 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: owned an aerial crop dusting company in Hernando, Mississippi, and 176 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: then you would go on here as a navy man. 177 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: You would join the Navy in fifty eight. What was 178 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: the interest? Was it your father's business in aviation, because 179 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: it became your career. 180 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: You know. I actually left home at age seventeen the 181 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: week I turned seventeen, and I guess I was as 182 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 2: dumb as a box of rocks. Is. Whatever my dad wanted, 183 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: what she wanted me to stay and go to school, 184 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 2: whatever he wanted, I didn't want. And he wanted me 185 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 2: to be a pilot. I didn't want that either. I 186 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: learned the hard way instead of an easy way. But 187 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: my dad taught me a lot. I learned I loved airplanes, 188 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: and I went on, you know, being an aircraft technician 189 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 2: and maintenance technician in the Navy, and I got a 190 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: regular commission and learned about management and a whole lot 191 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 2: of went to school and I graduated college. But I 192 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: did it the hard way, which is a dumb way. 193 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 2: But it's a wonderful life, and I've certainly enjoyed my 194 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: time with aviation all my life. 195 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: I believe you were the only airline CEO in history 196 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: to be certified to both work on and fly the 197 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: big birds, Unless I'm wrong, I think that's something to 198 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: be extraordinarily proud of. But I have to imagine that 199 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: that inspires a respect among employees when you're having to 200 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: constantly negotiate, whether it be pilots or mechanics or stewardesses 201 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: that maybe today it feels like some of the folks 202 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: don't have the background in aviation like that, whereas it 203 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: was clearly in your blood. 204 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: Well that's right, Michael. You know, if you and I 205 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: were going to go and let's say the Riskwatch sales 206 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 2: and repair business and start a new company, wouldn't it 207 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 2: be helpful if one of us knew how Watch worked? 208 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: So it kind of helps if you're going to run 209 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: a company to know what the product is and how 210 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: the people work. Had A guy once said how come? 211 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 2: He told me, he said, how come you know so 212 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: much about people? And I said, look at him, I said, 213 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: well I used to be one. You need to remember 214 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 2: where you came from. 215 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: When I look at how often going back and looking 216 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: at how often Continental under your leadership, having faced bankruptcy 217 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: twice and all the cost cutting and all the things 218 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: you had to do. But at the same time, corresponding 219 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: to that, you're winning awards for employee experience. What sorts 220 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: of things did you do and what sorts of things 221 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: can be done to make the employee experience better short 222 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: of just paying them more. 223 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: Well, what you do is you treat them with dignity 224 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: and respect, because you really owe that in every part 225 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: of the watch is necessary for the watch to work, 226 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 2: given the small parts that you can't see inside are vital. 227 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 2: So the people in the company are all vital. And 228 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: if they get a sense that you understand that and 229 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: appreciate that, you'll be a real plus for your company. 230 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: Number Two, I think sharing in the profits which we did, 231 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: would put in a profit sharing. They didn't know what 232 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: profit was in those days, but once we s paid 233 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: fifteen percent of pre tax incomes to our people. That 234 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 2: men when the customer won being on time and the 235 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: right correct product, they won, they got paid extra money 236 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: for on time bonuses and profit sharing. And I think 237 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 2: as a team, you know, like on a football team, 238 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: you got to all the big shots in the backfield 239 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: are not the only people. Everybody's in the huddle, so 240 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: everybody has to be part of what the endeavor is 241 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: and mutually agreeable. And that's what I saw. We did 242 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: nothing special but treating everybody with dignitye respect, is the 243 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: vital part of the team, is essential to profitability, especially 244 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: in the airline business. 245 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm not asking you to be immodest. I asked the question, 246 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: so I'm simply asking you to answer this. Your success 247 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: speaks for itself. If you were to look at it. 248 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: Few things that in your life you look back now 249 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: and go, these were the things I did that led 250 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: to my success. Solely for the purpose of other people 251 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: saying I could adopt one or two of those, what 252 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: would that be. 253 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 2: Well, I think we just covered it, you know. I 254 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: wrote that book in ninety eight or ninety nine Worst 255 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: to First because we were the worst in the dot 256 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: metrics of airlines, and we became the best run airline 257 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: in America, most dependable, but more awards, like you said, 258 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: the best place to work, the best, best airline to fly. 259 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: And I'm proud of that. But it really was that 260 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: I got a team together and want to do it. 261 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: I couldn't do it. I didn't do it. What I 262 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: did was put the thing together, pick the right people, 263 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: and then treat them fairly. And every time we won 264 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: an award, I didn't step on stage to accept the 265 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: reward for the company unless the employees came with me 266 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 2: because they're the ones that did the work, and I 267 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: think people got a sense of belonging and working together 268 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: work for us, and we just beat the socks off 269 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: of everybody by taking that approach. 270 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: If I had asked you at fourteen or fifteen years 271 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: old what Gordon Bethune would have been doing at forty 272 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: or fifty years old, what would you have said at 273 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: that time. 274 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: I'd probably say, you know, be in prison somewhere. I 275 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: don't know. At age fourteen or fifteen, I'd hate to 276 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: go through that again. It was tough on my parents, 277 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: and I survived it and got very fortunate on the way. 278 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: But I would just start the same thing. I'd just 279 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: done it earlier, but a way. You know, I don't 280 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: think I knew enough to make a bad decision. Michael. 281 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting because for me, I would have wanted to 282 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: be either president or a sports star or a rock star. 283 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: I suspect that's many people. 284 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: Well, you know, that shows that you're smart. I am 285 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: because I didn't know, you know, but there is a 286 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: saying that says, if you don't know where you're going, 287 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: any road will get you there. And so I was 288 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: kind of like taking off in the direction I wasn't 289 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: really sure about, and it worked out for me. I'm 290 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 2: very fortunate there. 291 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: Did you ever look back at any point during your 292 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: career and say, if I didn't do what I'm doing now, 293 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: I'm kind of interested in that computer thing, or I'm 294 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: kind of interested in the automobile thing, or housing or 295 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: something else. 296 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: I think the challenges for me were to create a 297 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: team of a company. We I think in nineteen ninety four, 298 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: the first full year they were out of bankruptcy, and 299 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: a year I joined Continental, they lost six hundred and 300 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: forty million dollars. The next year, using the same airplanes, 301 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: the same employees, planning in the same cities, we made 302 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 2: two hundred and twenty five million. That's after we paid 303 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 2: profit sharing. So it's nothing wrong with the people, nothing 304 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: because we have used the same people. What they did 305 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: is you have to have a good pilot. You have 306 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: to be a good employer to get people to want 307 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: to do a good job, and if they want to 308 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: do it, you can't beat them. And so that was 309 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 2: the whole formula, nothing more, nothing more complicated than that. 310 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: That's right, say it again. 311 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: That's why I had to solve many guitar probably had 312 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: a tune. 313 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: Now you might have to edit that. 314 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: This is Mark Chestnut. Enjoy Bizaar of Talk Radio. 315 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: With a Study. 316 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: Jordan Bethune is our guest. You tell the story in 317 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: the book. If I recall correctly, that some of the 318 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: routes that the airline was flying were loser routes. There 319 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: was a negative. They were costing the airline a lot 320 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: of money, and they were related to where some of 321 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: the executives wanted to go or where they felt like 322 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: they needed to be. I think one of them was 323 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: Raleigh Durham, and you went in and you just it 324 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: was Raley Durham to Kentucky if I remember correctly. But anyway, 325 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: you went in and you just started slicing those it 326 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: would seem like that would be obvious. If you lost 327 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: six hundred million dollars, then everybody would do that. 328 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know, but Michael, it isn't all about just 329 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: cutting costs. Although in the book I pointed out we 330 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: lost about fifteen percent of our flying was cash negative. 331 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: So it's not even a P and L. It's cash, 332 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: which means that you could set the parking brake and 333 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 2: evacuate the airplane and save money, don't fly it. And 334 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: so what we did was create a market plan and 335 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: I said, well, why don't we fly the places people 336 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 2: want to go? I said, there's a really good thought. 337 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: And so that is essentially what we did to the 338 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: route system is trim those those routes. They didn't have 339 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: adequate customers or market presidents to make a profit, and 340 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 2: we quit losing money. 341 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: How much of the person you became discipline structure do 342 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: you attribute to the US Navy. 343 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: Well, a lot, probably on ninety nine percent. That's really 344 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: where I grew up, and I learned so much there. 345 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 2: It's a great place for a young man or young 346 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 2: person today to join and get some bearings at least 347 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: pick a road in a path that will get you there. 348 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: It exposes you to teamwork, It exposes you to structure 349 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 2: and discipline, and it's really good for any young person 350 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: today to have that kind of experience as they go 351 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 2: into the marketplace. 352 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: Tell me about the influence of your mother, Pearl Ellie 353 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: Bethune on your life and the person you came. 354 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, my dog's here. My mom would use I 355 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 2: would say it gave me too much stake and rudder. 356 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: So it means that she's a very strong woman. I 357 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: loved her, but she always wanted you to do it 358 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 2: her way, and I guess that's what I rebelled against. 359 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: And later on, you know, really come to appreciate how 360 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: loyal and helpful she was. But I learned a lot 361 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: from my parents and my grandparents, and I learned a 362 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 2: lot of the Navy, and so, you know, and I 363 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 2: learned a lot, certainly hit boring and working in the airlines, 364 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: about people, and so I've been blessed with that help 365 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: along the way. 366 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: What about your father, Jack with them. 367 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 2: Well, there's a really a great guy. Died much too young, 368 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: age fifty, but he was he was a great pilot, 369 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: I mean, one of I saw him do things I 370 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: didn't think anyone could do. But he also helped me 371 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 2: once I joined the Navy, state focused and that helped 372 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: a lot as well. So I owe a lot of 373 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: my parents, as probably most of us do. I'm not 374 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 2: sure you always realize it in enough time to tell them, 375 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: but I was blessed for that too. 376 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: I used to play tennis every morning at six o'clock 377 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Racket Club downtown when I was a 378 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: baby lawyer and then eventually when I was running for 379 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: city council and serving on city Council and my mentor, 380 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: a fellow named Walter Zivley, would join me. He was 381 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: a partner at a major law firm, and the other 382 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: person at our table was George Mason. You're a good 383 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: friend who was I guess head of maintenance. And I 384 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: always found it fascinating that the chairman and CEO's very 385 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: close friend at the company was a person who wasn't 386 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: in the c suite. And I guess it's not really 387 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: a question. I know that was a very special friendship 388 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: for you, but that was probably where I first grew 389 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: to admire the person you were on a real level 390 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: as opposed to a Fortune list or a Forbes list. 391 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: Well, you know, George Mason's who were talking about. And 392 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: I met him when I went to Piedmont as senior 393 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: VP of operations from Western and moved out and knew 394 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: George forever, and that's why we hired George help us 395 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 2: get the airline back on track with maintenance problems. And 396 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: he was a wonderful man. George is just as human person, 397 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: never wore his rank on his sleeve. You wouldn't know 398 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: he's in charge. But he was, and he was just 399 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: a great executive for us and did a wonderful job. 400 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: George's a lifetime prime. 401 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: He would regale us with Gordon Bethune stories. I had 402 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: not met you at that point, and he would regale 403 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: us every morning with stories. And I would pester him 404 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: with questions. And I had read the book. This was 405 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: about two thousand and two thousand and one, and the 406 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: book had come out in ninety nine. And he was 407 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: trying to retire and you told him, you can retire 408 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: when you want, but you're going to be miserable. And 409 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: he tells the story, told the story at the time 410 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: that you said. You said, George, you're too young to retire. 411 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: What are you going to do when you retire? And 412 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: he said, I'm gonna play golf and you said how 413 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: much golf can you play? Well? Fast forward and I 414 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: think he was gone maybe a year, and he called 415 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: you back and said, my shoulder hurts, and I've played 416 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: enough golf and you said, your job awaits. 417 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: George is like that. And you know, I think a 418 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: lot of us. I think you ought to, you know, 419 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: measure twice, cut once, and so before you retire Whatt. 420 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 2: You should really really give it some serious thought about 421 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 2: pick it over again before you do it, because there's 422 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: almost no going back. And we were lucky to keep George. 423 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: One of the Gordon Bethune stories that I pepper my 424 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: speeches and my day to day life with comes from 425 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: the book. And you had gone into an airplane hangar 426 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: and you were worried about expenses on aviation maintenance, and 427 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: that was your background. And you walked in and there 428 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: were all these there was this huge maintenance budget for 429 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: this particular hangar, and you said to the guys, boy, 430 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: this this floor is really clean. And the mechanics said, mister, 431 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: you could eat off this floor. And you said, that's 432 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: too clean. And I've always that line has always stuck 433 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: with me, that we're paying too much, we're overdoing. That's 434 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: not a good prioritization. I just it's not a question. 435 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: I just wanted you to know that's that line has 436 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: always stuck with me. It applies in almost everything I do. 437 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: Mostly I just get to tell a Gordon Bathoon story 438 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: out of the deal, you. 439 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: Know, Michael. The funny thing was when I went to Western, 440 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 2: That's what happened. They had cleaners and cleaners were sweeping 441 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: up after the mechanics and cleaning, and he said we could. 442 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 2: One of the guys said you could eat off this floor, 443 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: and I said, get a paper plate. Okay. 444 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: My wife even uses that line. She's heard me say 445 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: it so many times it has achieved us a second generation. 446 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: I promised you I wouldn't keep you any longer. I 447 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: just wanted to close by saying I have the utmost 448 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: respect for the person you are, both as a leader 449 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: person you've been in the corporate world. I think you're 450 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: one of those guys that young people should learn from. 451 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: I asked listeners to send me an email saying that 452 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: I was going to be talking to you and was 453 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: there any question or statement and to a person I got. 454 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: I was overwhelmed with emails, but nobody wanted to know 455 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: I've got your question or anything like that. They all 456 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: simply wanted me to say I work for that man 457 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: and thank you. 458 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 2: I have a story for you. 459 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: My brother in law murdered too Native Americans to Michael Berry, Joey, 460 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: you have my attention. 461 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: It was men by, said dog Cloudy's with the Preemiegret 462 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 3: gotta get down my hand and listen. 463 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: Oil can under my A great annual tradition on our 464 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving edition, which is the Friday before the following Thursday, 465 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: is to play rush Limbaugh's The Meaning of Thanksgiving in 466 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: honor of the Great Irreplaceable rush Limbaugh. 467 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 3: The True Story of Thanksgiving. The story of the Pilgrims 468 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 3: begins in the early part of the seventeenth century. The 469 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 3: Church of England, under King James the First was persecuting 470 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 3: anyone and everyone who did not recognize its absolute civil 471 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 3: and spiritual authority. Those who challenged ecclesiastical authority and those 472 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 3: who believe strongly in freedom of worship were hunted down, imprisoned, 473 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 3: and sometimes executed for their beliefs. A group of separatists 474 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 3: first fled to Holland and established a community. Three eleven years, 475 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 3: about forty of them agreed to make a perilous journey 476 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: to the New World, where they would certainly face hardships, 477 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 3: but could live and worship God according to the dictates 478 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 3: of their own consciences. On August first, sixteen twenty, the 479 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: Mayflowers set sail. It carried a total of one hundred 480 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 3: two passengers, including forty Pilgrims, led by William Bradford. On 481 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 3: the journey, Bradford set up an agreement, a contract the 482 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 3: established just and equal laws for all members of the 483 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 3: new community, irrespective of their religious beliefs. Where did the 484 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 3: revolutionary ideas expressed in an Eyflower Compact come from? They 485 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 3: came from the Bible. The Pilgrims were a people completely 486 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: steeped in the lessons of the Old and New Testaments. 487 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 3: They looked to the ancient Israelites for their example, and 488 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 3: because of the biblical precedent set forth in scripture, they 489 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: never doubted that their experiment would work. But it was 490 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 3: no pleasure cruise. The journey to the New World was 491 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: a long and arduous one, and when the Pilgrims landed 492 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 3: in New England in November, they found, according to Bradford's 493 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 3: detailed journal, a cold, barren, desolate wilderness. There were no 494 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 3: friends to greet them, he wrote, There were no houses 495 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: to shelter them, there were no inns where they could 496 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 3: refresh themselves, and the sacrifice that they had made for 497 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 3: freedom was just beginning. During the first winter, half the Pilgrims, 498 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 3: including Bradford's own wife, died either starvation, sickness, or exposure. 499 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 3: When spring finally came, Indians taught the settlers how to 500 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 3: plant corn fish for cod and skin beavers for coats. 501 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 3: Life improved for the Pilgrims, but they did not yet prosper, 502 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 3: and this is important to understand because this is where 503 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: modern American history lessons often end. Thanksgiving is actually explained 504 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: in some textbooks as a holiday for which the Pilgrims 505 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 3: gave thanks to the Indians for saving their lives, rather 506 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 3: than as a devout expression of gratitude rounded in the 507 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: tradition of both the Old and New Testaments. Here's the 508 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: part that's been omitted. The original contract the Pilgrims had 509 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 3: entered into with their merchant sponsors in London called for 510 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 3: everything they produced to go into a common store, and 511 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: each member of the community was entitled to one common share. 512 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 3: All of the land that they cleared and the houses 513 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 3: they built belonged to the community as well, and they 514 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 3: were going to distribute it equally. All the land they cleared, 515 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 3: the houses they built belonged to the community. Nobody owned anything, 516 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 3: they just had a share in it. It was a commune. 517 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: It was the forerunner to the communes we saw in 518 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 3: the sixties and seventies out in California, and it was 519 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 3: a complete with organic vegetables, even just like the communes 520 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 3: of today are God No, there's no question it was 521 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 3: organic vegetables. Bradford, who had become the new governor of 522 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: the colony, recognized that this form of collectivism was as 523 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 3: costly and destructive to the Pilgrims as that first harsh 524 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 3: winter which had taken so many lives. He decided to 525 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 3: take bold action. Bradford assigned a plot of land to 526 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 3: each family to work and manage, thus turning loose the 527 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 3: power in the marketplace. Long before Karl Marx was even born, 528 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: the Pilgrims had discovered and experimented with what could only 529 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 3: be described as socialism, and what happened. It didn't work, 530 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 3: but it nearly starved. It never has worked. What Bradford 531 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 3: in his community found was that the most creative and 532 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 3: industrious people had no incentive to work any harder than 533 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 3: anybody else unless they could utilize the power of personal motivation. 534 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: But while most of the rest of the world has 535 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 3: been experimenting with socialism for well over one hundred years, 536 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: trying to refine it, perfect it, and reinvent it, the 537 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 3: Pilgrims decided early on to scrap it permanently. What Bradford 538 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 3: wrote about this social experiment should be in every school 539 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: child's history lesson. If it were, we might prevent such 540 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 3: needless suffering in the future, such as that we are 541 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 3: enduring now. The experience that we had in this common 542 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 3: course and condition, This is Bradford, the experience we had 543 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 3: in this common course and condition, tired or tried someday 544 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 3: years that by taking away property and bringing community into 545 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 3: a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing, as if 546 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 3: they were wiser than God. Bradford wrote for this community, 547 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 3: so far as it was was found to breed much 548 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have 549 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 3: been to their benefit and comfort. For young men that 550 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: were most able and fit for labor and service, did 551 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 3: repine that they should spend their time and strength to 552 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 3: work for other men's wives and children without being paid 553 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: for it. That was thought injustice. Why should you work 554 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: for other people when you can't work for yourself? What's 555 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 3: the point, That's what he was saying. The Pilgrims found 556 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 3: that people could not be expected to do their best 557 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 3: work without incentive. So what did Bradford's community try Next, 558 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 3: they unharnished the power of good old free enterprise by 559 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: invoking the undergirding capitalistic principle of private property. Every family 560 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 3: was assigned its own plot of land to work, and 561 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 3: permitted to market its own crops and products. What was 562 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 3: the result, Bradford wrote, this had very good success, for 563 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 3: it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn 564 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 3: was planted than otherwise would have been. Is it possible 565 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 3: that supply side economics could have existed before the nineteen eighties. 566 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 2: Yes. 567 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,239 Speaker 3: Read the story of Joseph and Pharaoh in Genesis forty one. 568 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 3: Following Joseph's suggestion, Pharaoh reduced the tax on Egyptians to 569 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 3: twenty percent during the seven years of plenty, and the 570 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 3: earth brought forth in heaps well. At no time the 571 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 3: pilgrims found that they had more food than they could 572 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 3: eat themselves. This, yes, this is where it gets really 573 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 3: good if you're laboring under the misconception that I was 574 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 3: as I was taught in school. They set up trading posts, 575 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 3: they exchanged goods with the Indians. The prophets allowed them 576 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 3: to pay off their debts to the merchants in London, 577 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 3: and the success and the prosperity of the Plymouth settlement 578 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 3: attracted more Europeans and began what came to be known 579 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 3: as the Great Puritan Migration. But this story stops when 580 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 3: the Indians taught the newly arrived suffering in socialism Pilgrims 581 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 3: how to plant corn and fish for cod. That's where 582 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 3: the original Thanksgiving story stops. Story basically doesn't even begin there. 583 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 3: The real story of Thanksgiving is William Bradford giving thanks 584 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 3: to God for the guidance and the inspiration to set 585 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 3: up a thriving colony that socialism caused near starvation. The 586 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 3: bounty was aired with the Indians. They did sit down, 587 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 3: they did have free range turkey and organic vegetables. But 588 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 3: it wasn't the Indians who. 589 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: Saved the day. 590 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 3: It was capitalism and scripture which saved the day, as 591 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 3: acknowledged by George Washington in his first Thanksgiving Proclamation in 592 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 3: seventeen eighty nine,