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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. I'm Paul fig
Speaker 1: I directed about nineteen episodes of the Office. I was
Speaker 1: a co exact producer for one season, season five, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was probably my favorite job I've ever done working
Speaker 1: on the show. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's
Speaker 1: episode of The Office Deep Dive. Probably my favorite job
Speaker 1: I've ever done. I am your host, Brian baum Gartner,
Speaker 1: my guest today. Is the absolutely the only way to
Speaker 1: describe him, A bundle of joy. Paul Feig. Now, Paul
Speaker 1: was a director and a producer on the Office, That's true,
Speaker 1: but those titles don't quite do him justice. Paul was
Speaker 1: a core member of the team starting in season two,
Speaker 1: so much so that when Greg started working more and
Speaker 1: more on Parks and wreck in season five, Paul became
Speaker 1: our number one go to in house person on set
Speaker 1: for any questions or issues that came up. Paul was
Speaker 1: like the Consigliari of the office, you could say, and
Speaker 1: he had a huge influence on the show, as all
Speaker 1: good consigliaries do. But it wasn't just our show. Paul
Speaker 1: also created freaks and Geeks and has made tons of
Speaker 1: fantastic comedy movies Bridesmaids, Spy, the New Ghostbusters, so many more.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. Paul once said that our casting director,
Speaker 1: Alison Jones changed the face of comedy, which is true,
Speaker 1: but Allison says that Paul, along with Judd Apatow, changed
Speaker 1: the genre of comedy itself. Plus, Paul is hilarious. Just
Speaker 1: check out his Instagram you'll know what I mean. He's
Speaker 1: a super nice guy and to top it off, he
Speaker 1: is the most dapper man in Hollywood. Definitely the only
Speaker 1: person who showed up for our conversation in a three
Speaker 1: piece suit. So on that note, here he is Paul Feig.
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak, I love it Bubble and Squeak on
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month left over from the
Speaker 1: NAT before Oh Agnes how are you? I'm good? Are
Speaker 1: you you look amazing? It's always yeah, you haven't great
Speaker 1: to see you. Oh my god, this is so great. Yes,
Speaker 1: how fun? It has been amazingly fun. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's thank you so much. Oh no, this worked. Sitting down?
Speaker 1: Um what are you about to do? You're working on something.
Speaker 1: Was going to shoot a pilot in North Carolina, so
Speaker 1: I can ready for that, and then we're gonna do
Speaker 1: a movie after that. So you are you nice and busy?
Speaker 1: Which is nice? Yeah? What what're We're in? North Carolina?
Speaker 1: Is a pilot's Wilmington's. I was there. I mean it's
Speaker 1: been now, Oh my gosh. Maybe it's been a little
Speaker 1: bit of time. This show, which you probably never heard of.
Speaker 1: It was one of those weird thing was a drama
Speaker 1: that I was a fan of and they called and
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it was um good behavior. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh that's a cool show. Oh my gosh. It was
Speaker 1: so much fun. And Wilmington's was great. Yeah, that's my
Speaker 1: first time. When I was an actor. Back in ninety four,
Speaker 1: I shot a movie there, Heavyweights. We that, but it
Speaker 1: was that was more Asheville Henderson Bills. It was more
Speaker 1: Blue Ridge mountains, but I loved North Carolina. It was
Speaker 1: one of those cases. We have this every time I
Speaker 1: shoot anywhere. It's what we call I want to live there.
Speaker 1: Iteas you started looking for houses, I had to live here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's just start looking. Huh. I wonder what this model
Speaker 1: money will get me here on the ocean, And I
Speaker 1: always solve it by going, okay, Now flash forward. It's
Speaker 1: the final day of production and the trucks are pulling
Speaker 1: out of town and you're they're waving like all right
Speaker 1: here I am, And I was like, all right, what
Speaker 1: have I done? Lovely towns? But what the hell are
Speaker 1: we show biz people gonna do? I know? Um, okay,
Speaker 1: So what we're talking about is The Office. And now,
Speaker 1: six years after we've stopped film management six years, it's,
Speaker 1: by basically any measure, the most watch show on television,
Speaker 1: totally insane, and people come up to me all the
Speaker 1: time about it. And kids, Well, that was the thing
Speaker 1: that always blew my mind. I wrote a couple of
Speaker 1: y A books, um and so did these like middle
Speaker 1: school tours, and so when I would be promoting the book,
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, the kids are like whatever.
Speaker 1: So I just learned to pand or completely like I
Speaker 1: work on the Office and they would go crazy. All
Speaker 1: they wanted to do was talk about the Office and
Speaker 1: they loved it. So, yeah, it's got such of relevance.
Speaker 1: How did you get involved originally in the show. Did
Speaker 1: you watch the British version of the show. Yeah? I
Speaker 1: watched the British version of the show, and actually at
Speaker 1: the time, the agency I was at came to me
Speaker 1: and a million other people who had you know, had shows,
Speaker 1: and said you want to do this? And I was
Speaker 1: immediately like, no, why would I possibly want to do that? Like,
Speaker 1: I can't take that on. You can only fail like
Speaker 1: a right, totally. It's just like it's so iconic, you're
Speaker 1: like that, you can't you can't do it, just get
Speaker 1: away from it. So um. So then yeah, a few
Speaker 1: years later I had heard that they were, you know,
Speaker 1: doing it, And actually the irony was I was shooting
Speaker 1: a pilot with Rodney Rothman called Early Bird back then,
Speaker 1: and so when we were shooting this scene, a writer's
Speaker 1: room scene, it was at the same studio where Greg
Speaker 1: Daniels was was editing the pilot and remember him going like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: come in, come in, I'm gonna get your opinion on something.
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out what the theme music is
Speaker 1: going to be, and so he played a couple of
Speaker 1: different songs and the piano one came up and we
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, that, I think that's the one that's
Speaker 1: really good. So I kind of like, wow, I was
Speaker 1: there at the beginning for the piano thing. Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 1: And then Wild and then and then what happened was
Speaker 1: when it came on, you know, you know, the whole
Speaker 1: thing about how it had to be the exact script
Speaker 1: from the British version. Remember watching it and just kind
Speaker 1: of going like, oh, I was hoping it would be
Speaker 1: something else. I was such a big Corral fan, and
Speaker 1: so I kind of had this thing in my head, Oh,
Speaker 1: I guess maybe it's not gonna you know, go, even
Speaker 1: though it was great in it. And then and I
Speaker 1: didn't watch the rest of the six. And then my
Speaker 1: agent called me up next year and said, oh, you
Speaker 1: know that shows coming back and it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be this hot show. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, but I like everybody involved
Speaker 1: so much. So then I went and watched the other
Speaker 1: five and went like holy smoke. This is so funny.
Speaker 1: When I got a diversity day, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. So
Speaker 1: then I came on board for for the first full
Speaker 1: season and um, yeah, but I was at that first
Speaker 1: table read where they read the Dundees and all that,
Speaker 1: and then mine was Office Olympics was my first one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Office Olympics pretty early and in season two I think
Speaker 1: that's the fourth, third or fourth episode, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Greg told me something interesting that he on the
Speaker 1: pilot decided that if they stayed faithful to the British script,
Speaker 1: the network couldn't give any notes. Oh I buy that
Speaker 1: because they were like, well they worked over there, like
Speaker 1: how could you? And so what what he viewed his
Speaker 1: job on on the pilot was to create the world.
Speaker 1: It was really brilliant what he did. I mean the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, it was partly some of you
Speaker 1: guys got cast. Other people were writers. He said why
Speaker 1: don't you be on the show, And it created that
Speaker 1: great world for the for the docuse style, you know,
Speaker 1: the big thing that you know, we kind of all
Speaker 1: figured out going into season two. You know, the first
Speaker 1: six were trying to be very much like the British
Speaker 1: Office in the sense that Steve Carell's character was really unlikable,
Speaker 1: and it was when the forty year old virgin came
Speaker 1: out on that break that everybody goes like, wait, what's up,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh no, he's lovable. He can be
Speaker 1: a lovable loser, you know, and kind of be insufferable,
Speaker 1: but he has to have victories and so you know
Speaker 1: that was getting seated in. But it was really that
Speaker 1: moment I think we all felt in Office of Olympics
Speaker 1: when when Steve made the decision to start crying, you know,
Speaker 1: or yet Terry when the Metal ceremony. I remember, we're
Speaker 1: all kind of like, that's it. Oh my god, and
Speaker 1: it was just um and it felt like it just
Speaker 1: you could feel that shift. Well, speaking of that, that
Speaker 1: moment and the Halloween moment, both directed by you, people
Speaker 1: have talked about the softening of him and the showing
Speaker 1: of his humanity. Yeah. Well remember in the in the
Speaker 1: stage directions for the Metal Ceremony, it was like everybody's
Speaker 1: kind of laughing at him, So it was gonna it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be this big burn on him. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's all Steve. I mean Steve made this
Speaker 1: decision to get emotional, and I remember, we're just we're
Speaker 1: all standing there like, oh my god. So I'm just
Speaker 1: mbening up, going like, go go further with it, Go
Speaker 1: further with it. Um. It's this thing that I've just
Speaker 1: discovered over the years because I love British comedy so much,
Speaker 1: and Britt's really love unlikable lead characters because then they
Speaker 1: just get to see them torn apart and there's some
Speaker 1: sort of a come upance with that, much like the
Speaker 1: British press who take people down. But American audio just
Speaker 1: can't get behind it. It makes them very frustrated. They
Speaker 1: want American audiences just want to invest in the lead character.
Speaker 1: It's it's our the beauty of how lovely, what a
Speaker 1: teenage country we are. We still have optimism and all that,
Speaker 1: and so I think it's great, but it's it's just
Speaker 1: this lesson I've learned over and over again, but I
Speaker 1: never learned it as fully as I did from my
Speaker 1: experience on The Office. Yeah, it's interesting because if you
Speaker 1: look at sort of the iconic dramas that were happening
Speaker 1: around the time that The Office was going, they're unlikable
Speaker 1: characters that found humanity, like if you think of Tony
Speaker 1: Soprano or m Walter White or you know, you have
Speaker 1: these bad bad men that find a humanity that people
Speaker 1: somehow root for. It. Did that was that a shift
Speaker 1: or was it sort of okay in terms of drama
Speaker 1: but not comedy. I think it was. I think it's
Speaker 1: the difference between more niche cable stuff and mainstream network stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, because this is back when you know, well,
Speaker 1: you guys started the four networks ruled the roost, which
Speaker 1: is just not that way anymore. And so I think,
Speaker 1: you know, to have that broad appeal, you have to
Speaker 1: have this formula, right. Part of what we've talked about
Speaker 1: is that kind of this revolution in terms of changing
Speaker 1: the face of network television really started with you and
Speaker 1: Freaksing Geeks. Um, what I know, I'll take full credit.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's thank you, Brian, you know,
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, you know, we talked to
Speaker 1: Alison Jones, and Alison talked about like her affinity for
Speaker 1: Misfits and you know, she cast Golden Girls and Family
Speaker 1: Ties and all of these traditional network shows, and then
Speaker 1: she talked about Freaks and Geeks being the first cool
Speaker 1: show that she did, and that she had an affinity
Speaker 1: you know for people who were sort of different you
Speaker 1: do as well. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, Freaks
Speaker 1: and Gigs was really my reaction to all the years
Speaker 1: of stuff I'd watched about cool kids and cool people
Speaker 1: in high schools, about all the you know, it's like
Speaker 1: soap operas. I was just like, I can't take this anymore,
Speaker 1: just it has no relevance to my past. What's and
Speaker 1: it makes me feel like a weirdo, Like wh what
Speaker 1: group was I in? So I really just kind of
Speaker 1: wrote it as you know, as a reaction to that.
Speaker 1: Um No, I mean, you know, there was things like
Speaker 1: Ally McBeal and stuff that we're kind of playing in
Speaker 1: that world. There was also the movie Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Dollhouse that came out and was was really influential for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and and what it influenced at
Speaker 1: the networks was they were all kind of like, we
Speaker 1: need to get a show like that. So I had
Speaker 1: kind of on the side written this spec pilot and
Speaker 1: it just happened to kind of match into that, and so,
Speaker 1: um we we chopped it around and NBC just jumped
Speaker 1: on it in a great way, and we had one
Speaker 1: of these amazing meetings where you come into go like
Speaker 1: we have no notes, just go shooting, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, going like you're you know, I was all
Speaker 1: set for a fight of like you gotta let us
Speaker 1: cast you know, nerdy kids. I don't want to cast
Speaker 1: like models, and then you know, and they were like, no,
Speaker 1: we agree. So yeah, so it was really great and
Speaker 1: um yeah, I mean, you know, the thing we that
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of is just the idea of like
Speaker 1: a bittersweet comedy that's like not a comedy and not
Speaker 1: a drama that's sort of both. It's like real life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's why we got canceled. We you know, we
Speaker 1: only aired twelve episodes and the people at the network
Speaker 1: were in love with the show, but the heads of
Speaker 1: the network just couldn't figure it out because it just
Speaker 1: didn't it didn't do what a normal TV show does.
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't wish fulfillment. You know. I remember
Speaker 1: them always going like why can't he why can't he
Speaker 1: get with the cheerleaders, Like when we don't have a
Speaker 1: show because of the cheerleader, wouldn't be real life, None
Speaker 1: of ours that we're writers, you want to bring a
Speaker 1: bunch of cool guys in. Yeah, and then it just
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, we just you know, did it as
Speaker 1: long as we could not. You know, I always credit
Speaker 1: NBC for letting us do what we did right well.
Speaker 1: And I think it's why everybody who worked on the
Speaker 1: Office has a huge soft spot for Kevin Riley because
Speaker 1: he stuck his neck out. You know, he wasn't there
Speaker 1: when Freaks and Geeks was there, but by the time
Speaker 1: Office came around and he fought for it. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was the champion the toll because I know that
Speaker 1: thing was. I mean, any other person would have canceled
Speaker 1: that show after the first six just because of the ratings.
Speaker 1: Because of the ratings. You know, we were in the
Speaker 1: basement of the ratings every week ironically with seven million
Speaker 1: viewers per week, which now we would be with the
Speaker 1: biggest show into you totally um. Greg talked about that
Speaker 1: he was sure that the show would fail, and he
Speaker 1: talked about that he felt like his contribution would that
Speaker 1: it would be all worth it if somehow, in the
Speaker 1: smallest of way, he could nudge the ship of comedy
Speaker 1: in just a different direction. Coming out of a friend's
Speaker 1: Will and Greg. You know, just that's something that just
Speaker 1: he found funnier. He was like, it would have been
Speaker 1: worth it, Like if I had just done that well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I always say in comedy there
Speaker 1: are these moments that everything jumps ahead, and he definitely
Speaker 1: did that. But you know, one of the many things
Speaker 1: that was in the way of the office taking off
Speaker 1: in the beginning was that style was that docu style
Speaker 1: with the zooming camera. Now we're so used to it
Speaker 1: and nobody talks about it. But I don't know, you've
Speaker 1: probably heard this too. You know, I can't watch it. It
Speaker 1: It makes me sick. I want to throw up. It's
Speaker 1: things go moving around. But I always credit YouTube kind
Speaker 1: of created a world in which we could do this
Speaker 1: because you know, comedy before that was very over lit,
Speaker 1: very you know, three camera looking, or it was a
Speaker 1: movie just very you know, here's the shots to get
Speaker 1: the shots, and it was very joke oriented to everything
Speaker 1: was set up, jokes out of joke. Everbody's really snappy
Speaker 1: and all this, And because of YouTube, people started finding
Speaker 1: so much humor in captured moments and things just happening
Speaker 1: on the fly and that's real, and that comedy became
Speaker 1: completely behavioral and and I felt over the last ten
Speaker 1: years people have no patience for jokes at all. If
Speaker 1: it sounds like a joke, they're still jokes. But they
Speaker 1: can't be like, you know, snappy, snappy, clever dialogue it has,
Speaker 1: you know, on Freaks Engaged, we our biggest laughs would
Speaker 1: be you know, Martin Stars going, you know that get
Speaker 1: but they see them the script and back in the
Speaker 1: old days like you need a joke here, you need
Speaker 1: a punchlines and no, no, that's the joke. And you know,
Speaker 1: one of my best friends is is Matt Reeves who
Speaker 1: did clover Field, you know, and people were like, oh,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm throwing up and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, now it looks We see it all the time,
Speaker 1: so it looks great and you don't have a problem
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Speaker 1: I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover our new season
Speaker 1: is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago.
Speaker 1: We controlled the courts, we controlled absolutely everything. He bribed
Speaker 1: judges and even helped a hit man walk free until
Speaker 1: one day when he started talking with the FBI and
Speaker 1: promised that he could take the mob down. I've spent
Speaker 1: the past year trying to figure out why he flipped
Speaker 1: and what he was really after. From my perspective, Bob
Speaker 1: was too good to be true. There's got to be
Speaker 1: something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust that guy. He
Speaker 1: looks like a little scum, big layer, still bidging. He
Speaker 1: looked like what he was or at. I can say
Speaker 1: with all certainty I think he's a hero because he
Speaker 1: didn't have to do what he did, and he did
Speaker 1: it anyway. The moment I put the wire around the
Speaker 1: first time, my life was over. If it ever got out,
Speaker 1: they would kill me in a heartbeat. Listen to deep
Speaker 1: Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. Hello, Hello, Hi, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I want to come through the screen and hug you. Hey, everybody.
Speaker 1: Jessica's are here, also known as Vanessa Abrahams on Gossip Girl.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to share my new podcast with
Speaker 1: you guys. It's called XO XO and it's a walk
Speaker 1: down memory lane all about Gossip Girl. I'll chat with
Speaker 1: some of the cast crew fans of the show, and
Speaker 1: I'm just so pumped for you guys to go on
Speaker 1: this journey with me. All Right, I made Westwick, I
Speaker 1: played Chuck Bass. I just can't believe that I did
Speaker 1: that with my life Jay, we had like the most
Speaker 1: amazing time. Listen to XO XO on the I Heart
Speaker 1: radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Greg and Ken kapas Matt and Randall. You know. One
Speaker 1: of the things that they talked about was the idea
Speaker 1: that everything is harder makes it better. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it was absolutely brilliant that he decided to get a
Speaker 1: real documentary crew to shoot this. I mean, it's honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm doing a pilot right now that I'm just completely
Speaker 1: copying what he did because somebody like Randall and Matt,
Speaker 1: who were so brilliant, they are writers, they are actors,
Speaker 1: they are producers in the way that they do this
Speaker 1: because they have the ability coming from that world, to
Speaker 1: see the scene like they've never seen it before. Every
Speaker 1: time they shoot it, And as a director, it's my
Speaker 1: absolute favorite way to work because it's all about performance
Speaker 1: and it's also all about kind of we're the audience,
Speaker 1: the cameras, the audience going wait what he said that
Speaker 1: and like and kind of zooming in and their ability
Speaker 1: to know when to zoom in on somebody is just
Speaker 1: you know, people go, oh, do you direct? That's like no,
Speaker 1: I don't like occasionally going oh wait, hold off or
Speaker 1: like maybe pull wider here, but in general, just like
Speaker 1: you guys, do what you're gonna do, and then we'll
Speaker 1: kind to see if we want to change it. But
Speaker 1: cent of the time you're just like now, they right,
Speaker 1: so smart. And you know I've said before this and
Speaker 1: through this process that every shot there was always a
Speaker 1: discussion about where the camera was, not in terms of
Speaker 1: getting the shot, but in terms of intention, behavior character.
Speaker 1: Is the camera in the same room, Are the characters
Speaker 1: aware that it's in the room. How does that change
Speaker 1: their behavior knowing that it's there? Yeah? Total. I mean
Speaker 1: That's why I've always had a hard time watching reality
Speaker 1: TV real reality quote unquote, because I just go everyone's
Speaker 1: on camera, they know they're on cameras, So I'm not
Speaker 1: watching normal behavior. I'm watching them playing to the cameras,
Speaker 1: and so the fact that they harness that it makes
Speaker 1: the comedy so much better because you know, and we
Speaker 1: always you know, they scripted it out a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, but it was always like, when's the spy shot?
Speaker 1: When do we want to catch people where they have
Speaker 1: no idea they're on camera. We're seeing the real person
Speaker 1: versus people that are very aware of the camera. And
Speaker 1: it's such a part of the writing. It's such a
Speaker 1: part of the storytelling that, you know, the fact that
Speaker 1: they used that and and really played into it is great,
Speaker 1: even down to things like, you know, the the idea
Speaker 1: that on the Talking Heads, anybody who had kind of
Speaker 1: a bright future got to be against the window that
Speaker 1: looked out to the streets, and everybody who was stuck
Speaker 1: in the place got you know, the office behind them. Yes,
Speaker 1: John Krasinski or sorry, Jim being towards the women, paym
Speaker 1: exactly being toward the window. You know. I remember coming
Speaker 1: in the first time. You know, the first thing I
Speaker 1: ever did when I was directing was the Talking Heads.
Speaker 1: You just started the day with the Talking Heads, and
Speaker 1: you know, I came in and got all this whole thing,
Speaker 1: like really interview people, and I did, and you guys
Speaker 1: were so nice you put up with that. I asked
Speaker 1: all these questions before I get to the scripted thing.
Speaker 1: But it was just it was fun. I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: it was just this. You know, I played with improv
Speaker 1: on camera before, but not to this extent, you know,
Speaker 1: because I worked on the Arrested development, which was so
Speaker 1: much fun. Those scripts are so dense that even though
Speaker 1: we would do let improv, it just wouldn't get used because,
Speaker 1: you know, because of the way they wanted to cut
Speaker 1: the show. So you know the fact that Greg I
Speaker 1: can never say enough stuff about Greg Daniels. He's just
Speaker 1: so brilliant and I learned more from him and I
Speaker 1: think anybody in the business. You know, the fact that
Speaker 1: he had the confidence to let us throw out storylines
Speaker 1: because we would stumble upon an improv you know, in
Speaker 1: Halloween is is the classic one with that thing which
Speaker 1: is Dwight, you know, looking like the you know, the Emperor,
Speaker 1: and we were just like, this is so funny, and
Speaker 1: that he went for it, you know, that's so great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great example, Yeah, of just a story that
Speaker 1: is funny and let's let it play out as long
Speaker 1: as it's a moment, you know, like I recognize that
Speaker 1: he oh god, he looks like he's from Star Wars,
Speaker 1: and then then you will do it, Michael or whatever
Speaker 1: you're saying. Yeah, no, totally. Um, I can't remember if
Speaker 1: we were if we did this. By the time you
Speaker 1: were there, it started to peter out because the shoots
Speaker 1: got more complicated. But one of the things that Kappas
Speaker 1: did and we did, I know, through the first season,
Speaker 1: was the thirty minutes of busy work. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so coming in and ultimately he wanted and you know,
Speaker 1: Greg wanted it to feel like we had been there,
Speaker 1: that we had been sitting there. So even us being
Speaker 1: there for thirty minutes, it's like your chair feels different
Speaker 1: than if you just sit down, which I just I
Speaker 1: think is so interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. I Mean, one
Speaker 1: of the things I love about Ken is like he
Speaker 1: doesn't even say action. He just goes go ahead, And
Speaker 1: which is great because there is that thing and I
Speaker 1: when I do my movies and all that I've I've
Speaker 1: purged it out of what I do, even I still
Speaker 1: call action, but there is something about it leads up
Speaker 1: to this like okay, but yeah and go and it's
Speaker 1: it's a big event. That's why I always just go
Speaker 1: like go again, go again, go again to get people
Speaker 1: out of that thing of like here it comes, they've
Speaker 1: just redone, your makeup, the cavers, rolling and go and
Speaker 1: so you know, the thing on the office was always
Speaker 1: that the cameras never turned off until we finished a scene,
Speaker 1: so we just rolling, just kept going, moving around. Also,
Speaker 1: the thing that that they were doing, and I think
Speaker 1: Ken started this too, is just saying, like all day,
Speaker 1: everybody has to be here all day just because we're
Speaker 1: in the office. Who don't want know who we're going
Speaker 1: to see in the background because the camera is gonna
Speaker 1: be moving around, you know. And that carried on for
Speaker 1: a couple of seasons and people well started getting more successful.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, but to a certain degree. It
Speaker 1: was there throughout I mean, you know, even later and
Speaker 1: there were scenes that were taking place at the reception
Speaker 1: area and Steve Carroll was sitting in you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: as Michael Scott was sitting in his office there in
Speaker 1: the background. No, I mean, it definitely happened. But but
Speaker 1: who drew the short straw on that whole series? It
Speaker 1: was poor. He was the only one we saw through
Speaker 1: the window. He was the only person that we saw
Speaker 1: when we do the talking heads that looked into the office.
Speaker 1: So he had Peelis somehow escaped. Remember asking for some
Speaker 1: Phillis to come in a couple of times, I might
Speaker 1: see your hand right. Just one other questions sort of
Speaker 1: on this top is you know, basically, how do you
Speaker 1: feel like the fact that there were ordinary looking people
Speaker 1: um that that and the fact that we were all
Speaker 1: essentially unknown, how did that contribute to you think to
Speaker 1: creating that world? Well, I made it much more relatable.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I always say, like, you know, we
Speaker 1: always try to go you know, like let's just cast
Speaker 1: really normal people. The minutesome he gets on camera, they
Speaker 1: do become appealing. It's just a natural thing that happens.
Speaker 1: So again it goes back to this docu style. I
Speaker 1: think that is just the key to everything because it
Speaker 1: takes all the grandiosity out of the filmmaking process. You know,
Speaker 1: when you get your close up and you're in a
Speaker 1: movie or TV show and you get a close up,
Speaker 1: we're tracking around you. It just becomes an event. It
Speaker 1: just eventizes little moments in life and the fact that
Speaker 1: if everybody's sitting there and we're kind of at this
Speaker 1: sort of high angle because all the cameraman stand up
Speaker 1: generally unless randalls on his pooty scoot do you know
Speaker 1: what we called it, sitting on this little thing with wheels. Um,
Speaker 1: we're seeing it the way if we would just walk
Speaker 1: through the office, that's how we we'd be watching it.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think with the zooming in on people,
Speaker 1: it's just like you as an audience, go oh, I
Speaker 1: would focus on that person, and somehow in my brain
Speaker 1: I would actually zoom in on them, because your eye
Speaker 1: kind of does weird things that you don't realize as
Speaker 1: you're taking in details. And I think that's all contributed
Speaker 1: to making it feel just normal. In what then you
Speaker 1: can do when you have this thing of everything feels
Speaker 1: very real and everybody's under playing because also nobody on
Speaker 1: the show is playing big. But if something big does happen,
Speaker 1: it is in a real world context, so you can
Speaker 1: get away with it. So you know, there's some pretty
Speaker 1: absurd stuff that happened on the office, but you just
Speaker 1: go like, oh, that's funny. You don't go if it
Speaker 1: had been shot in a standard movie way with like
Speaker 1: you zoom in and a wide lens you did this,
Speaker 1: and that you'd go like, no, that's dumb, you know,
Speaker 1: or that's too much. But in this real life context,
Speaker 1: that makes it all feel real and so um yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, but you guys were all very very appealing
Speaker 1: in our own specific way. Yes, exactly. You know. I've
Speaker 1: always said this about especially it's more about like three
Speaker 1: camera kind of stuff, but it really applies to the
Speaker 1: best TV shows, the most popular comedies ever, which is
Speaker 1: it's generally in one place. That's why cheers work so well.
Speaker 1: You go, oh, I'm gonna go visit my friends in
Speaker 1: this place that I feel very comfortable. And so that's
Speaker 1: what the office had. And it's funny as the seasons
Speaker 1: went on, they were always trying to get out of
Speaker 1: the office more and I was always kind of like,
Speaker 1: let's not go out too much because I love being
Speaker 1: in this place. Now it's my happy place. So that
Speaker 1: you know, that's what you had going for you. But
Speaker 1: then with this new style, which the funny thing was
Speaker 1: at that time sitcoms were trying to break out of
Speaker 1: their three camera thing, and so if you watch there
Speaker 1: was occasionally you'd watch a sitcom and they kind of
Speaker 1: put some shot in or they do something. Let me
Speaker 1: tracking down the hall and you're like, wait, what's happening.
Speaker 1: You know this is not normal and it would distance
Speaker 1: you from it. But you guys have the ability to
Speaker 1: just have this freedom with the cameras. Right the art
Speaker 1: world it is essentially a money laundering business. The best
Speaker 1: fakes are still hanging off people's walls. You know, they
Speaker 1: don't even know or suspect that they're fakes. I'm Alec
Speaker 1: Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed and
Speaker 1: forgery in the art world. You knew that the painting
Speaker 1: was fake. Um, listen to Art Fraud on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey,
Speaker 1: this is Paris Hilton. Last year I revealed the story
Speaker 1: of my abuse at Provo Canyon School. Since then, thousands
Speaker 1: of survivors have come forward. Now I'm on a mission
Speaker 1: to expose the truth of the entire industry, and this
Speaker 1: weekly investigative podcast me and my host Rebecca Mellinger and
Speaker 1: Caroline Cole. We'll examine one infamous team treatment facility each season.
Speaker 1: First up, Provo Canyon School. This one is personal. When
Speaker 1: you first get there, you have to experience girls screaming,
Speaker 1: lock dot peeing themselves in the hallway sleeping, and you're like,
Speaker 1: where am I? Holy hack, this is not what I expected.
Speaker 1: Listen to Trapped and Treatment on the I Heart radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, And we're
Speaker 1: live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for
Speaker 1: the and there they go, almost on time. This morning.
Speaker 1: Mom is coming out the front door, strong with a
Speaker 1: double arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags.
Speaker 1: Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper
Speaker 1: bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but
Speaker 1: mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for
Speaker 1: the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to
Speaker 1: be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the
Speaker 1: booster seat. Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off.
Speaker 1: But looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is
Speaker 1: still on the roof of the car and there it goes. Ah,
Speaker 1: that's a shame that mug was a fan favorite. Don't
Speaker 1: sweat the small stuff, just nailed the big stuff, like
Speaker 1: making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right
Speaker 1: seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more n h t
Speaker 1: s A dot gov slash the right Seat visits n
Speaker 1: h s A dot gov slash the Right Seat brought
Speaker 1: to you by NITZA and the ad Council. Backing up slightly,
Speaker 1: you mentioned Diversity Day. Um, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about I don't know what you
Speaker 1: want to call him, but issue episodes. That sounds so
Speaker 1: like very special episode. That wasn't the intention, but you know,
Speaker 1: talking about really from our second episode and Diversity Day
Speaker 1: beginning to talk about difficult social issues in a way
Speaker 1: that some would say hadn't been done on television since
Speaker 1: All in the Family, in terms of looking at race,
Speaker 1: but looking at it in a different way with a
Speaker 1: protagonist who was the one kind of stirring the pot um.
Speaker 1: A lot of people have said it, and Steve himself
Speaker 1: said he wasn't a bad guy. It was it was
Speaker 1: just he wasn't woken off. Yeah, he's not savvy enough
Speaker 1: and he The great thing about Steve's character, you know,
Speaker 1: I also think Archie Bunker is like one of the
Speaker 1: greatest characters, possibly the greatest character I've ever been in comedy,
Speaker 1: but they're people who are just convinced they're right. Also,
Speaker 1: when they say something terrible, it's like, what what did
Speaker 1: I say? What did I say that's so terrible? It's
Speaker 1: that weird innocence of thinking get away with it that
Speaker 1: that really makes the difference. You know, there's no malice
Speaker 1: in that person. But you talked about unlikable leading man um,
Speaker 1: you know, being a very British thing. But it's funny
Speaker 1: like when you look at that television history and you
Speaker 1: bring up Archie Bunker again, another sort of unlikable leading man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very much so. I mean, you know, that's one of
Speaker 1: the most challenging characters to be on TV. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, people try to replicate that so many times,
Speaker 1: and it just that was so specific to the time. Ironically,
Speaker 1: I almost feel like, I think almost were even more
Speaker 1: divided now. I don't even think you think you could
Speaker 1: pull it off because everbody's so self defensive. But back
Speaker 1: then there was ability to even though everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: passions were high. You needed that that steam relief for whatever,
Speaker 1: to to get these ideas out there. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: surrounding that shows just brilliant because it's the wife who's
Speaker 1: just a saint, and then the overbearing son in law
Speaker 1: who's too far the other way. You know, in the
Speaker 1: the daughter is kind of caught in the middle. So
Speaker 1: if you kind of present a fair and balanced mixture
Speaker 1: of opinions, then you can have fun with it. And
Speaker 1: then if you again take the malice out of it,
Speaker 1: unless you need a villain, then everybody's just kind of misguided.
Speaker 1: Then it becomes about the appealing nous of the people
Speaker 1: playing those roles. And I don't mean looks or anything.
Speaker 1: I just mean, do you inherently like them? And you
Speaker 1: you inherently like Steve because he is just he's so
Speaker 1: funny and also just you know, he thinks he's doing
Speaker 1: the doing the right thing, and you can't. It's hard
Speaker 1: for Americans at least to get mad at that. Where
Speaker 1: do you think that he fits in, Michael Scott sort
Speaker 1: of in the history of comedy leading man. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's a real close race between Carol O'Connor and Steve Carrell.
Speaker 1: For me, I've I've lamented this before, and whenever I
Speaker 1: say it, sometimes it turned to the press remembers that
Speaker 1: this didn't happen, that Steve Carell never won an Emmy,
Speaker 1: never want and it makes me mental. And you know,
Speaker 1: Alc Balden, I love him. He's the funniest guy in
Speaker 1: the world. He's he's great. But you know that was
Speaker 1: a showy part and Steve's part. I mean people would
Speaker 1: say it to me and like, well, but he just
Speaker 1: shows up and he just it's crazy, and it's like,
Speaker 1: are you fucking kidding me? You know, first of all,
Speaker 1: if you know Steve, he's not crazy at all. He's
Speaker 1: one of the most even timbered, smart guys I've ever
Speaker 1: met in my life. But for comedy be good. It's
Speaker 1: gotta look easy. If it looks sweaty and it looks
Speaker 1: like people are trying too hard, it's terrible. But then
Speaker 1: when you do so great that you make it so real,
Speaker 1: people like, well you're not doing anything. So at some
Speaker 1: point you just go awards mean nothing and screw it,
Speaker 1: let's just throw it out. But the fact that there's
Speaker 1: a comedy Leading Man category and he can never win
Speaker 1: it is it's crazy. And I really think Academy do
Speaker 1: like the President's Award or whatever, where you give somebody
Speaker 1: who's been not taken care of, give him that Emmy.
Speaker 1: And should be like five ft high. Yeah. Yeah, Um.
Speaker 1: When I was talking to Rain, I said to him,
Speaker 1: the comedy duo of the two of them together, you
Speaker 1: reference the Halloween episode two. They're just so funny. They're
Speaker 1: just so funny, and there's just it's these two archetypal
Speaker 1: characters in the way that they fit together was just brilliant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's not I mean, there's not really a parallel
Speaker 1: to them, because it's not Laurel and Hardy, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's not avonic Ostello because of that exactly what
Speaker 1: you're saying. It's this weird they need each other, but
Speaker 1: Michael doesn't want Dwight acceptance, and it's it's really I mean,
Speaker 1: but you know, such credit to Rain. I mean, what
Speaker 1: an amazing character he pulled in to be a character
Speaker 1: that could have been so over the top arch but
Speaker 1: there is a humanity in him because he's just that
Speaker 1: guy that we all know who's just like striving and
Speaker 1: wants it and wants it so much and tries to
Speaker 1: kind of throw everybody else out of the way, but
Speaker 1: he's still sensitive. And yeah, it's really I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: in Rain, it's the greatest guy too well, and part
Speaker 1: of why the show is so popular. I think that
Speaker 1: Dwight Shrewd this character full of contradictions that don't make
Speaker 1: any like heavy metal, dungeons and drag it like all
Speaker 1: of these weird things, but they're so specific that that
Speaker 1: is actually what makes it universal that people like like
Speaker 1: see that it's a real character, a real person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, because characters are all specifics. You know, when
Speaker 1: you get in trouble, when you're writing something, is you
Speaker 1: just kind of have this general kind of feeling of
Speaker 1: what your character does, and you know, it's really going
Speaker 1: through that laos agree list of like specifics. What is
Speaker 1: their religion, what do they believe in? What are they
Speaker 1: are they afraid? You know, what's their favorite food? Those
Speaker 1: things make up who we are if you think about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that that's It's like how many
Speaker 1: times you meet somebody really like them, then you'll find
Speaker 1: out one thing and you're like, wait, what you know,
Speaker 1: either suddenly you don't like them because of it, or
Speaker 1: you feel really bad for them, or you know. So
Speaker 1: it is that that attention to detail, and that's the
Speaker 1: great thing about the television series is that you have
Speaker 1: week after week to keep establishing these things and to
Speaker 1: surprise people with you know, oh, I thought I knew
Speaker 1: exactly who that person was, and you go like, oh
Speaker 1: you think, you know, check this out. And that's what's
Speaker 1: brilliant about it. I've gone to movies because I get
Speaker 1: more of a stomach gig thinking about having to do
Speaker 1: stuff week after week, because I'm a little more of
Speaker 1: a singular task person. So that's why I when a
Speaker 1: show is consistently great week after week, year after year,
Speaker 1: it's like a magic trick or something. And you know,
Speaker 1: and and just you know, hats off to those those writers.
Speaker 1: I remember just standing watching them from the other side
Speaker 1: of the room, going like that is the most brilliant
Speaker 1: group of writers. Like you'd be hard pressed to put
Speaker 1: together a gang like that again, you know, and and
Speaker 1: everything they came up with was brilliant. And I would
Speaker 1: just sit in that writer's room and just go wow,
Speaker 1: you know, it's marvel. You know, it's the case. I
Speaker 1: try to pitch a joke and they kind to look
Speaker 1: at me like okay, you know, like suddenly Dad in
Speaker 1: the room like pitching some shitty, old hackey joke and
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, well I heard um as it's been
Speaker 1: explained to me, like in a writer's room, you really
Speaker 1: have the people who start and they're really good at story,
Speaker 1: and then they're the senior there. Then you hire in
Speaker 1: the joke people, and then eventually the story people leave,
Speaker 1: and then you just have the joke people kind of
Speaker 1: running the ship, but they're not as good as story.
Speaker 1: But I mean when you think of a Gen Silata
Speaker 1: and Paulibristine and Mike Schuer and Mind and Gene and
Speaker 1: Mendy and b J and yeah, no, I mean that
Speaker 1: that's really that's smart. I never thought about it that way,
Speaker 1: but it's completely true. People didn't have a specific thing
Speaker 1: they did that they were known for, and I think
Speaker 1: that is really smart because then everybody brought a depth
Speaker 1: of story and funny to everything they were pitching, you know.
Speaker 1: And again sitting around that table and hearing the pitches,
Speaker 1: you know, when they were going through punching up a
Speaker 1: script or whatever. That's why when I would pitch like
Speaker 1: a joke, it just like hit like a lead balloon.
Speaker 1: I'm just pitching like a funny word or a funny
Speaker 1: word play. It's like God, but I learned so much
Speaker 1: on that, Like, you know, came kind of came out
Speaker 1: of that whole experience in my years. They're you're going
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, behavioral comedy, this is how
Speaker 1: it works. It was weird. That's we used to do
Speaker 1: on freaks and gigs. But I would get in this
Speaker 1: setting of a half hour thing go like, oh, you
Speaker 1: gotta be more jokey and and so you know they
Speaker 1: a brilliant group. Yeah, give us silver attention. We need
Speaker 1: everything you've got fast Waiting on Reparations. We'd beat the podcast.
Speaker 1: Tune in every Thursday politics and wordplay. We fight for
Speaker 1: the people because they got us in the worst way,
Speaker 1: from the Hill Cooper, the Bomb Bay Tot, from the
Speaker 1: left enclave to what the neo kanse every Thursday heavy
Speaker 1: conversation and to break us off with some break because
Speaker 1: we wait in the repas. Listen to Waiting on repper
Speaker 1: Rations on I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm Colleen with Join me the
Speaker 1: host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I eat a
Speaker 1: meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities over
Speaker 1: a meal they once ate when they were broke. Today
Speaker 1: I have the lovely AJ Crimson, the official Princess of
Speaker 1: comfin Asia kind and Asia. This is the professor. We're
Speaker 1: here on Eating Wall Broke, and today I'm gonna break
Speaker 1: down my meal that got me through a time when
Speaker 1: I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Many people believe the greatest episode of
Speaker 1: the Office is Dinner Party, Uh, that you directed and
Speaker 1: you were not supposed to direct it. Somebody else is
Speaker 1: supposed to direct that. And then the writers strike happened.
Speaker 1: But I remember I had been given the script to
Speaker 1: Survivor Man, I think was the one, and I remember
Speaker 1: going like, oh, I like the script, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: can I please have Dinner Party? And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's already been promised that somebody else. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, So I mean I've literally tried to figure
Speaker 1: out like how I could subvert it or whatever. And
Speaker 1: then the writers strike dropped into our laps in a
Speaker 1: horrible way, and that was what a terrible time that was.
Speaker 1: But it just happened to work out that when it
Speaker 1: came back, it was available for me to do because
Speaker 1: I think he was busy and um it was one
Speaker 1: of those things you just read and go like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is the funniest thing I've ever read.
Speaker 1: But it's also what I love because it's so cringe e.
Speaker 1: This is just going to be like excruciating, but that's
Speaker 1: my favorite kind of comedy. But if you remember, I
Speaker 1: think it was probably when it aired, probably our most
Speaker 1: hated episode. I mean, people did not like it because
Speaker 1: it made them so uncomfortable, and I remember being very
Speaker 1: surprised by that. But the feedback was coming out, you know,
Speaker 1: about the web site, and we were just getting really
Speaker 1: bad feedback from it. So I'm so happy that now
Speaker 1: it sorted itself out and it really taught me something
Speaker 1: I didn't realize before that, which is the hardest part
Speaker 1: about just you know, when you have a movie out
Speaker 1: or anything, if you have any kind of track record,
Speaker 1: people know what you do, you've got a voice, or
Speaker 1: they're used to stuff that you've done. That the biggest
Speaker 1: impediment to people enjoying something is the fact that it exists,
Speaker 1: and they have to get used to it existing, and
Speaker 1: so you know, they they're used to the feel of
Speaker 1: the office, which is fun and definitely has cringe e
Speaker 1: stuff in it. But so then when this thing comes
Speaker 1: up and you're like, we're just gonna dangle you in
Speaker 1: the wind and make you feel so uncomfortable that they're like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't, how dare you do this to me? But
Speaker 1: then when they watch and then they've gotten that out
Speaker 1: of their head and now they know it exists and
Speaker 1: they go back and watch it again, then you go like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And that episode is so obviously driven by that cast,
Speaker 1: and um, how funny they are, and this is one
Speaker 1: I'm We're putting them in a setting outside of the
Speaker 1: office worked so great because it was a setting that
Speaker 1: meant so much to one person. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: I still I don't think I ever laugh as hard
Speaker 1: as when we did the thing of Michael giving the
Speaker 1: tour of that living room with that little TV and
Speaker 1: then the then the shitty table, and it just it
Speaker 1: was that was just such a team effort between Steve
Speaker 1: as a performer, in between Randall and I and Matt
Speaker 1: figuring out like you think you're on a big TV
Speaker 1: and you pull out in this tiny thing and then
Speaker 1: how do we whip over to that shitty table? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god, it was just so funny. But the thing
Speaker 1: I take away most from that episode was, and again
Speaker 1: for the genius of Steve Carrell, the big breakdown they
Speaker 1: have about having a baby. You know, it happens at
Speaker 1: the door, and it got very dramatic, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's really like I was like, oh my god, like
Speaker 1: Steve's really killing this and it's so dramatic. But then
Speaker 1: we all kind of went, Okay, it's gotta be funny.
Speaker 1: So I just remember going to Steve and going like,
Speaker 1: it's so good, what can you do to just kind
Speaker 1: of make it fun? And that's when he did the
Speaker 1: whole snip snap, snip snap that thing. Do you know
Speaker 1: how many times vasectomy he has in that just like
Speaker 1: falling apart and then to be punching in on Krasinski,
Speaker 1: who just found the funniest moment to when he reveals
Speaker 1: the thing and just John it just takes that little
Speaker 1: look to the camera and Randall crashes in on him
Speaker 1: and it's the funniest. I think that's possibly the funniest
Speaker 1: reaction shot in the whole history of the Office. Um oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm so proud of that episode, and and
Speaker 1: it was it was just so fun to put together.
Speaker 1: It was also fun just to go in and figure
Speaker 1: out because I I was the first person in shooting
Speaker 1: Michael's condo when he bought it, so then going in
Speaker 1: and going like what did Jan do to this place?
Speaker 1: And that was just a blast that they just let
Speaker 1: us completely, you know, go wild with kimonos on the
Speaker 1: wall and in the big the big andy warhol of Jan,
Speaker 1: which we never we never feature, it's just there and
Speaker 1: you go like, oh my god, yeah exactly. Um So
Speaker 1: in season five you came on as a co executive producer, right,
Speaker 1: and that was really about I mean it came out
Speaker 1: a function of well, one, how great you are and
Speaker 1: two that Greg was sort of stepping away and beginning
Speaker 1: to go work on Yeah, yeah, how why did you
Speaker 1: decide to do that? I loved you guys so much
Speaker 1: And it was really that when the opportunity was presented
Speaker 1: to me, I remember thinking like, this is gonna be
Speaker 1: like the greatest schooling I've ever had, you know, And
Speaker 1: that was I said. One of the things was I
Speaker 1: want to be I'd like to be in the writer's
Speaker 1: room too, which they definitely wanted. Um. You know, it
Speaker 1: allowed me to go into that helpful I was, but
Speaker 1: I was in there. Um yeah, I just really wanted
Speaker 1: to be more and more part of that show. I
Speaker 1: knew that how great it was, and obviously by that
Speaker 1: point it was a hit too. But you know, I
Speaker 1: couldn't get movies made, which was all I really wanted
Speaker 1: to do. But since I couldn't do that, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting with this amazing gift. I really want to
Speaker 1: just be a part of it. And and you know
Speaker 1: what what had happen, Well, you know when Gregg brought
Speaker 1: me on too, just like a lot of people had
Speaker 1: in their contracts that they were going to get to
Speaker 1: direct an episode, and so he really wanted me there
Speaker 1: to help people. And I love that. You know. It
Speaker 1: was so I got to you know, be with Steve
Speaker 1: Carell when he directed his first episode, and I also
Speaker 1: got to be with you know, you know, some of
Speaker 1: our editors when they were doing it too, and it
Speaker 1: was it was fun. And I also got to spend
Speaker 1: more and more time on the set, which I love.
Speaker 1: Like I will fully admit, the one thing that I'm
Speaker 1: really sad about is I was not allowed to direct
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl episode because I think the network wasn't
Speaker 1: thrilled with the Christmas episode, the Meredith's Um Christmas. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I think that they had some issues. So I remember
Speaker 1: being kind of penalized because I was kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: of course I'm the in house director, I get to
Speaker 1: do the hour long one, and then you know, I didn't,
Speaker 1: and I remember just being very upset about and then
Speaker 1: it won them for the directors. But he did a
Speaker 1: great job, I mean, amazing job. Um you also directed
Speaker 1: um Niagara. Um, how how did you find out ultimately
Speaker 1: how that the wedding actually played out with the other
Speaker 1: wedding in Niagara, etcetera. Well, I mean it was you know, first,
Speaker 1: I was so excited to get to do that one,
Speaker 1: and you know, the first time we ever think we
Speaker 1: ever went on location to do anything on the show,
Speaker 1: even though all the stuff we shot at you know
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be there was actually in uh the
Speaker 1: smokehouse right right block away from my house. My actual um,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean one of the greatest honors for
Speaker 1: me was also getting to do the Proposal, which which
Speaker 1: was the most expensive shot we ever did in the
Speaker 1: show's history. That was the very first episode of that
Speaker 1: that season, and we basically blew the entire budget for
Speaker 1: the rest of the season, and that shot, which costs
Speaker 1: I mean like a half a million dollars because it
Speaker 1: filled a CG and and all this anyway, Um, but
Speaker 1: so yes, when we got to the wedding, it was
Speaker 1: very emotional. It was weird because we're gonna shoot on this,
Speaker 1: you know, the Lady of the Mist or made of
Speaker 1: the Mist thing, So that just brought so many logistical
Speaker 1: things that you're kind of like, it was hard to
Speaker 1: kind of invest in the emotion of it at first
Speaker 1: because I was so worried, like, are we gonna get soaked?
Speaker 1: Are we gonna you know, it's a camera gonna screw up.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until we got in the editing room.
Speaker 1: It was Claire, you know, Claire edited, and I was
Speaker 1: there with her when we decided we were going to
Speaker 1: intermix the dance number with the wedding, and we just
Speaker 1: burst into tears. I mean, I just got I still
Speaker 1: get I get so emotional watching that because it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful the way that it goes back and forth between
Speaker 1: the two, but it's also I'm jumping all around. But
Speaker 1: there was so many things in my head when we
Speaker 1: put that episode together, that dance number, which came out
Speaker 1: of the blue. I mean, do you know the whole
Speaker 1: back story on you know what was originally Originally Greg
Speaker 1: had this insane idea that was hilarious that that Dwight
Speaker 1: was gonna d ride a horse over the Niagara Falls,
Speaker 1: and we're just like, I don't know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: we want to kill a horse on Pam and Tim's wedding,
Speaker 1: And he kind of fought for it and fought for
Speaker 1: it and then finally gave in. And so it was
Speaker 1: a very last minute thing. We had like like a
Speaker 1: day or two, and that wedding video was all over
Speaker 1: the internet. It was kind of the perfect setup. And
Speaker 1: then when we were shooting in that church all day,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was so much to shoot that we
Speaker 1: were running out of time and I was like, literally
Speaker 1: had like a half hour left. I was like, I'm not,
Speaker 1: I don't have time to get this dance number. So
Speaker 1: I like, we're gonna have like maybe two takes at it.
Speaker 1: And the first time you guys did it, it was
Speaker 1: gold and it's just like that's dropped the mic. We
Speaker 1: did it one more time, but we didn't need it
Speaker 1: because the second time. But it was really having all
Speaker 1: those elements to work with that it just gave us
Speaker 1: enough cards to really juffle a beautiful day. Yeah. By
Speaker 1: the way, that I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 1: The people walking behind Jim and Pam onto the made
Speaker 1: of the mist my parents. Oh that's right, who were vacationing.
Speaker 1: And I do remember that. I do remember that they
Speaker 1: were Oh my god, we'll see. And I think you
Speaker 1: had met them on uh Company Picnic episode Come there,
Speaker 1: and I think you had actually remember that. I didn't
Speaker 1: direct that one, but I was there supervising you and
Speaker 1: your parents. Um. One other question I have to ask,
Speaker 1: because you just brought it up. You directed the proposal episode. Um,
Speaker 1: sound or no sound? Oh, I was very I was
Speaker 1: a no sound guy very much. So yeah. Wait, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I was a sound guy. Oh my god. No, that
Speaker 1: was That was the most contentious moment we all ever had. No.
Speaker 1: I was very nervous about it was so emotionally with
Speaker 1: the sound. And I'm glad we did it because I
Speaker 1: think it made, you know, flash forward to Michael's last
Speaker 1: episode much more powerful if we had done that gag
Speaker 1: a couple of times. But we did their performance was
Speaker 1: so good, and hearing her and going like oh my
Speaker 1: god and all that. It just we're already dealing with
Speaker 1: so much, with all the across the you know, the
Speaker 1: highway and zooming in all these cars and all that that.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I remember fighting really really hard for that,
Speaker 1: and I think Greg was always kind of on the
Speaker 1: fence of whether we should have done it. Um talk
Speaker 1: about one word. Literally, Hey, guy who fixes the cars
Speaker 1: for the show, come on in. What do you think
Speaker 1: Someone told the story that he brought in a security
Speaker 1: guard and came in to watch it. He was like,
Speaker 1: he was like, who are these guys talking? Like he
Speaker 1: had no idea, Like I've never watched the show. It
Speaker 1: was just like, yes, Um. You also directed Steve Carrell's
Speaker 1: last episode, Goodbye Michael. What do you remember about shooting that? Well,
Speaker 1: the biggest thing I remember, first of all, it was
Speaker 1: just so emotional, But that was what was interesting about it.
Speaker 1: You probably remember this too. Every time we were going
Speaker 1: into a scene, especially towards the second half of the week,
Speaker 1: it was that feeling of like, this is our last
Speaker 1: scene with with Steve, this group actors, and we would
Speaker 1: do the first few takes and it would there would
Speaker 1: be a real sadness about it, and I had to
Speaker 1: constantly go like, remember, we love Steve, we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: like Michael, you know, and it would change the dynamic.
Speaker 1: But I completely got it because I was so emotional too.
Speaker 1: I would kind of falling into that and then going like, wait,
Speaker 1: this can't be everybody's weeping because it's not going to
Speaker 1: track with the whole rest of the show. And that
Speaker 1: also made me very sad for Michael Scott, like they
Speaker 1: like him, but they don't love him, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But that's very real, you know. You know
Speaker 1: how many times you got people you work with other
Speaker 1: than you go, oh, I'll miss them. You're not like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't live without, you know, the boss,
Speaker 1: or I can't live with that that manager, you know.
Speaker 1: But that was really really hard because everybody wanted to
Speaker 1: break down. Um. I also remember, and I have a picture,
Speaker 1: I've got to find it somewhere. When we were the
Speaker 1: last day and we're shooting something, I looked over and Greg,
Speaker 1: you know that that the couch when you come in
Speaker 1: the front door, there's a couch next to the the reception.
Speaker 1: I looked and Greg was just literally laying flat out,
Speaker 1: face down on the couch, just with this kind of
Speaker 1: his hands under his head. It just some everything up
Speaker 1: of just like we can't believe Steve is going, we
Speaker 1: can't imagine life without Steve Carrell on the set. Um,
Speaker 1: it was tough. Um. The weird thing for me was
Speaker 1: that we shot the very last thing, probably three days
Speaker 1: before the end of the episode, which was the thing
Speaker 1: at the airport with Jenna and Steve, and that got
Speaker 1: me more than I kind of thought. I mean, the
Speaker 1: last day got me, but I was so on task
Speaker 1: doing that airport scene. That was when I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, and so it takes off the mic and
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm actually getting choked up when I
Speaker 1: talked about it, just seeing them, yeah, her going off
Speaker 1: and you don't know what they say, and just her
Speaker 1: hugging him, and it was just it was really it
Speaker 1: was really something. Um. But it really landed for me
Speaker 1: just what the show was and just you felt like
Speaker 1: you were kind of part of history in that moment.
Speaker 1: And I I loved everybody, but I remember saying like
Speaker 1: I'm now I'm not going to direct any more episodes
Speaker 1: because look, and I love all the episodes after Steve laugh.
Speaker 1: But to me, it's just like that was the group.
Speaker 1: You know, I almost felt like I almost had to
Speaker 1: leave with Michael Scott in a weird not that anybody
Speaker 1: could care, but it was just it put us such
Speaker 1: a completion to everything for me that that was kind
Speaker 1: of like that was it? Weirdly, yeah, because you didn't
Speaker 1: come back and direct after No, and I didn't. It
Speaker 1: was not any reason like, oh, dare you. It just
Speaker 1: kind of it was just this really weird natural feeling
Speaker 1: of like, oh, there's something, it's over. We're all we're
Speaker 1: all we're all going. I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 1: I quite know how to say it. It It just felt
Speaker 1: like there was closure for me when that happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that said, I wish I kind of I kind of
Speaker 1: wish I would have done some of them after because
Speaker 1: I missed you guys so much. I'll tell you one
Speaker 1: interesting thing about about that episode, when she goes to
Speaker 1: see the King's speech, we Bridesmaids it was gonna come out,
Speaker 1: but it was coming out in a few months, and
Speaker 1: we almost put Bridesmaids up on the marquee, but we
Speaker 1: all decided, well, what if it bombs, so so we
Speaker 1: didn't do it really Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. So
Speaker 1: she almost snuck into see broad space. Um well, and
Speaker 1: obviously Bride'smaids was huge and brought Ellie to a whole
Speaker 1: new level. And really then from changing the face of
Speaker 1: television comedy, you literally changed the gender of no of
Speaker 1: American movie comedy with that movie as well. I mean
Speaker 1: that was groundbreaking in its own way right now. I
Speaker 1: mean it was it was what I had always wanted
Speaker 1: to do. I I love, you know, female lead comedy,
Speaker 1: and you know, I would just for years, after Freaks
Speaker 1: and Geeks and before it even pitch ideas that were
Speaker 1: female centric, and it just you know, oh, you can't
Speaker 1: do that, you know. Okay, I guess they know more
Speaker 1: than I do about in show biz and if ially
Speaker 1: go like, well wait, why can't you you know, But
Speaker 1: it was really you know, Judd doing Knocked Up and
Speaker 1: saying to Kristen, you're great, write your own script, and
Speaker 1: then they came up with that idea because I was
Speaker 1: at that table read back in two thousand seven, uh,
Speaker 1: when it was just you know, untitled wedding movie and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and then three years later we actually got
Speaker 1: to do it, right, well, the final um very quickly.
Speaker 1: What do you feel like the legacy of the show
Speaker 1: is gosh, you know, it's a show that you just
Speaker 1: want to watch over and over again. I mean there's
Speaker 1: a few shows like that in my life. Taxi was
Speaker 1: always that way. Um, all in the family is always
Speaker 1: that way. But the Office is always gonna be that
Speaker 1: because it's just comfort food, you know, and it's a
Speaker 1: very it's so funny, but it's so relaxing to sit
Speaker 1: with these people. The tone of the show is very relaxed.
Speaker 1: I love the fact that we didn't have any score,
Speaker 1: no music on the show. You know, our sound mixes always,
Speaker 1: but like where do we put the phone ringing? Like
Speaker 1: we're just always placing phones ringing in the background and
Speaker 1: it just becomes this really low key, relaxing, happy place
Speaker 1: that you can go to. And every episode there's something
Speaker 1: several things in it you're like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is my favorite thing. Is my favorite thing? You know,
Speaker 1: there's always you know, money, probably Python the Holy Grails
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies, because every scene that comes up,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh wait, this is my favorite scene. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: this is my favorite thing, right, And that's what this
Speaker 1: show is everything that comes up because you go, like,
Speaker 1: you love these characters and you remember these moments and
Speaker 1: you can watch them over and over again because they're
Speaker 1: not sweaty and they're not trying to do hard, and
Speaker 1: they're not joke joke, joke, They're just behavioral and beautiful
Speaker 1: and relatable, not intimidating, and it just makes you feel
Speaker 1: good about your life, and it makes you feel good
Speaker 1: about other people. You know, it really makes you so like,
Speaker 1: this makes you tolerant of other people in a weird
Speaker 1: way because you're watching such a such different group of
Speaker 1: folks that have no reason to be together other than
Speaker 1: the fact that they are trapped within this building in
Speaker 1: this situation much like school. You know, the only reason
Speaker 1: you're there because you all live in the same area
Speaker 1: and that's why you're there. You don't choose to be there.
Speaker 1: And so there's just something very lovely about that. And
Speaker 1: I think that you know, people will be watching the
Speaker 1: show for you know, as long as the planet exists. Well, Paul,
Speaker 1: you're I mean, seriously, I know this sounds so crazy.
Speaker 1: You really are one of the greatest comedic geniuses that
Speaker 1: I have ever met. Your contribution not only on this show.
Speaker 1: But in all the work that you've done is such
Speaker 1: high quality. You're such a good caring person as well,
Speaker 1: so you're as smart as you are kind. So thank
Speaker 1: you one, thank you coming in and sitting down with me,
Speaker 1: and um, it's always always my pleasure to see you
Speaker 1: in YouTube. Brian, You're the greatest. Remember where we first
Speaker 1: met arrested Development exactly, and you were so funny and
Speaker 1: then Mitch wouldn't let you do your bit because you really,
Speaker 1: like really let you this guy, and so I was
Speaker 1: felt bad. So when I finally got to work with
Speaker 1: you again on the Office is like, oh yeah. And
Speaker 1: let me just say also, everything you've done is so brilliant.
Speaker 1: I still laugh every time I think of Michael's a genius.
Speaker 1: That makes me laugh so hard. From that episode that's
Speaker 1: one of our most undersung episodes to the surplus. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I can't stop talking about the Office. I'm going to
Speaker 1: get out of here, all right, Thank you, Thanks, all right, folks,
Speaker 1: that is it for today. Thank you so much to
Speaker 1: Paul for joining me. I know how busy you are.
Speaker 1: It is such an honor and a delight to chat
Speaker 1: with you, so thank you, and to all my listeners,
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in. As always, please let me
Speaker 1: know what you thought of the episode from today in
Speaker 1: the reviews. It means so much to hear from you,
Speaker 1: and that is absolutely the best way to reach me
Speaker 1: and my team. We will be act same bad time,
Speaker 1: same bad place next week and have a great one everybody.
Speaker 1: The office. Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
Speaker 1: me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our
Speaker 1: senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our producer is Adam Massias,
Speaker 1: our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
Speaker 1: is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
Speaker 1: by seth Olandskipe. Give us the attention. We need everything
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Speaker 1: like I couldn't always beat myself. My mom's in prison.
Speaker 1: This is Crumbs, my love story. It's to show about
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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Calburn, host of deep Cover.
Speaker 1: Our new season is about a lawyer who helped the
Speaker 1: mob run Chicago. He bribed judges and even helped a
Speaker 1: hit man walk free, until one day when he started
Speaker 1: talking with the FBI and promised that he could take
Speaker 1: the mob down. I've spent the past year trying to
Speaker 1: figure out why he flipped and what he was really after.
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