WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: Michael Knowles on Creativity in Conservative Media 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.119 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.800 It's the Internet. People are always going to be saying 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:18.000 crazy things for attention, but it does seem like the 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.159 number of crazy things we hear ratchets up as we 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.240 head towards a major election. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.119 This is a show. 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.200 About living a better life, and you'll notice that a 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.960 lot of my guests, who a lot of them are 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.879 right there in the political arena whose job is to 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.919 be in it, give the advice to people disconnect from 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.960 the Internet as much as possible. I'm on so many 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.199 group chats with these people, and I'll tell you that 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.520 it's the advice we give each other when things get 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.239 too heated online, or even if it's just a slide 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.200 into the crazy, like arguing that Winston Churchill was actually 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.120 the bad guy in World War two, or Trump is 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.400 of course back to being a Russian spy just in 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.320 time for November. It's easy to imagine that you have 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:05.880 to stay on the internet. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:06.280 And have the fight. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.959 And look, I'm not saying don't ever, sometimes you do 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:10.839 have to have the fight. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.760 It actually is important for saner voices to be heard. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.679 But if you find yourself driving your kid to baseball 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.480 practice while forming arguments in your head for you to 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.240 have an internet stranger's leader and believe me, I've done it. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.000 That's really when it's time for as we get closer 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.240 to the election, have to preserve your mental health. You 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.560 have to remember what's important. Spend more time with. 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.080 The people in your actual life, not the people in 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:43.200 your online life. Listen to the clear voices with opinions 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.920 you trust, who aren't saying things for clicks and views 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:48.040 to be outrageous. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:49.520 You know where those people are. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.440 Maintain your sanity be well. Coming up next and interview 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.720 with Michael Knowles. Join us after the break. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.320 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.200 My guest today is Michael Knowles. Michael is host of 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.400 the Michael Knowles Show on the Daily Wire. So nice 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:10.639 to have you on, Michael. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.480 Well, thank you so much for having me. Wonderful to 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:12.840 be with you. 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.280 So I was thinking about this interview and I realized, 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.520 I don't know the Michael Knowles origin story. How did 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.040 you get into this thing of ours? 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.280 I think that I might be the only person in 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.480 history to get a show for not writing a book. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:33.280 That's it. I really appreciate your using the New York 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.880 Italian slang for you know this stilly in ours, of course, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.800 and I am of Italian extraction from New York. But 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.880 I launched my show in twenty seventeen. I did it 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.799 shortly after I published a blank book called Reasons to 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:49.880 Vote for Democrats, a. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.040 Company I own that book. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:51.960 Thank you. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.200 I appreciate your supporting my scholarship. I did it as 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.400 a lark because I have worked in politics and in 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:04.000 show business since I was probably nineteen professionally in show 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.440 business even a little bit earlier than that, and I 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.720 always liked it. I worked as an actor in plays, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:15.239 in film and TV, but I also worked in politics. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.840 My first congressional campaign, I was nineteen years old. It 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.040 was a challenger race in the Hudson Valley, so swing 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.600 district but kind of liberal, and we ended up winning, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.800 and I ended up playing a fairly prominent role in 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.480 the campaign doing media things. 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:29.840 You know. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.000 We were running against a rock star who was an incumbent, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.680 John Hall, and I basically ripped off his song and 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.920 rewrote it and made music videos the young voters for 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.600 an Orleans reunion tour that was this old band and 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.760 you know, so got a little bit of traction that way. 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:50.160 Then was recruited to some other campaigns and had been 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.600 doing that. I had been working in politics and in 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.640 show business. I was out in Los Angeles doing both 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.880 of those things, and my friend Jeremy Boring asked me 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.320 to join the Daily Wire, which at that time had 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.880 you know, five employees or something. And I was hesitant 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.080 to do it because I thought I did not move 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.400 to LA to have a real job. Nobody moved to 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.080 LA to have a real job. And so, you know, 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.040 he said, you idiot, you know why, just let me 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.800 give you health insurances, so, you know, let me help 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.559 you pal. And so I was working at the Daily Wire. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.080 I say that I was the pizza boy of the 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.919 Daily Wire. Then my friend Andrew Claven brought me on 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.120 his show as a cultural correspondent, and I had this 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.480 idea for the fake book, which has been done many times. 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.680 You know, there's everything men know about women. There is 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.000 the wit and wisdom of the German people, all sorts 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.720 of versions of it. And so I did mine. And 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.480 it was one way to test well, not just providence, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.680 you know, it was an expression of providence, surely, but 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.080 it was also one way to test the beginnings of 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.280 the daily wire machine, right. And so I was sitting 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.720 around having a cigar with Jeremy and we're watching this thing. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.479 It dropped and it all of a sudden, it's jumping 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.559 up the charts on Amazon. It's number twenty five hundred. 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.880 Now it's number two hundred and fifty. Eventually gets up 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.360 to number six or something like that. I was then 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.800 invited on Fox the Morning Show. I go on the 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:10.960 morning show. By the time I start the morning show, 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.640 it's four am. By the time I get back to 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.120 the office and start my day, it hit number one 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.119 in the country. Stayed there for it was crazy. Stayed 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.520 there for about eleven days. Then I Simon and Schuster 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.039 tried to buy it, and I thought, this is very funny. 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.960 They want to buy nothing. So I asked my friend 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.520 Ben Shapiro to help me out with the book deal, 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.400 and so he introduced me to his literary agent who 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.599 was negotiating nothing. So the Simon and Schuster offered five figures, 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.719 which I thought was great. I'm in my twenties, I 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.360 was about to get married. This was amazing. And Jeremy says, Michael, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.560 you can't take it. I will not allow you to 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.400 take a five figure advance. He says, it's only funny 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.600 if it's a six figure advance. And I said, Jeremy man, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:55.719 it's a come on, it's a lot of money. 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:56.600 Let's you know. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.400 You got to play it out all the way. And 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.000 we did, and there was a bidding war between two publishers. Amazing, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.920 they give me six figures for nothing. It then started 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.680 to decline a little because they killed the joke. They 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.200 didn't want me to make fun of them for giving 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.320 me all this money for a fake book. And so 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:14.640 they said, well, how do we get the book up again? 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:16.280 I said, I don't know, put me back on Fox maybe. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.479 So we go back on Fox. We'd already done the 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.320 bit about the blank book. So they asked me what 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.520 I thought about. I think it was Trump's policy in Syria, 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.839 and I said he was doing a good job. And coincidentally, providentially, 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.680 at that moment, our then President was watching from the 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.120 White House and tweeted out his ringing endorsement. 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:36.320 Of my book. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:38.440 So hit number one again and then I got a 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.120 show out of that. And so it's a long winded 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.200 answer to a short question. But the short answer is 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.479 my origin story is I got my career for not 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:49.240 writing a book. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.680 Well, I mean, I love that because it's so creative. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.880 I feel like our side lacks creativity sometimes, and daily 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.680 Wire I feel it really brings it with the creativity. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.720 I think that all the projects you guys do, all 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.640 the side stuff, you know, I got an email about 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.240 Jeremy's chocolates today. It's just so much going on, and 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:11.680 I really love that. I think that that's what we 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.960 should be doing and appealing to people kind of on 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.840 a larger scale, doing an empty book, you know, And 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.000 I think I think creativity is where it's at, and 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.240 I love that you guys are playing into it. 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.320 Well, thank you so much. I'm just upset that you 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.120 got the email about Jeremy's chocolates and not about my 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:29.360 Mayflower cigars. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.679 Yeah, I didn't get the Mayflowers cigars for people listening. 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.120 Michael just showed me his Mayflowers cigars. I want to 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.720 see all the merch. Actually, what else we have there? 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.600 We're now we're a merch company that has podcasts. I 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.920 also have my Michael Nole's candles. I've become I basically 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.960 only sell things that are flammable, you know. That the 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.200 combustibles is my merch, but you know it's it serves 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.119 a purpose beyond making a few bucks in merch, because 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.720 you know, everybody sells T shirts or whatever. It's not 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:04.160 really about that. Our philosophy is largely what you've just expressed. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.200 We want a little creativity, we want a little whimsy, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.960 and also we want to be in the real world. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.760 You know, the left controls the political order, not just 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.600 because they have a lot of flax in government. They 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.320 do have a lot of flax in government, and they 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.440 have a lot of lobbyists and whatever, but it's because 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:25.640 they control everything. So, to use a pressing example, Brittany Mahomes, 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.520 the wife of Patrick Mahomes, the football player. She liked 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.760 an Instagram comment supportive of Trump, and this became headline 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.800 news and she was bullied into unliking the comment. The 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.839 left controls everything, so where you know, she. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.440 Ended up on liking it. I thought she was like 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:44.200 holding strong. 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.960 I think she I could be getting the story wrong. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.480 I'm not the biggest football fan. I thought she unliked it, 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.720 but then kind of doubled down. Nevertheless, on the substance 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.439 of her So don't I don't really know exactly where 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.040 it stands. But you do see the stakes. You see 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.960 the stakes for not even just a mainstream pop culture figure. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.080 It's the wife of a mainstream pop culture figure in sports, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.280 which is manly and broadly conservative. So you know my view. Look, 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.760 I've wanted a cigar company for fifteen years. I pitched 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.960 this to the DW guys five years ago, spend a 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.640 year building out Mayflower and the blends and everything like that. 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.960 Also providential how that came to be. It's got you know, 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:24.600 it has American historical resonances and all that stuff. But 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:26.960 the other reason why I want to have the cigars 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.080 and the candles and the tumblers and the razors and 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.760 the chocolates and all this stuff is because we are 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.160 incarnate creatures and we move through time and space, and 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.679 we are bodies as well as souls. And if we 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.199 want to transform the culture, we can't just be reaching 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.680 people in their earbuds. We can't just have one point 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.360 of contact. It's got to be we have to be 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.079 contacting people, not just the choir. We got to be 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.600 contacting all sorts of people everywhere. 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.600 They are absolutely you know, my kids always make fun 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.400 of like the commercials on TV will just be like 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.400 we believe, and it's always from the left. It's always 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.560 we believe and some random leftist value, you know. And 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.960 so I love that idea of like products and tangible 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.480 things that the rest of us can be into, the 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.439 rest of us can can have and hold. I think 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.320 that's just a great idea, and I love that Dailly 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.520 Wire does it. So do you feel like you've made 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.360 it after the story that you've told us. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.640 The closest I've felt is probably getting the cigar company, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.960 you know, and this was a real childhood dream. 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:28.800 But I don't know. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.440 I feel happy with my station in life, and I 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.400 feel that I'm permitted to do good work, and I'm 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.760 glad that I have some influence in politics and I 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:45.600 can maybe steer certain conversations, you know. As a result 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.800 of my blank book, I was offered the opportunity to 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.679 write what the publisher is called another book. Now, I 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.840 pointed out this, I had not at that point done 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.880 anything that could reasonably lead them to conclude that I 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:00.640 could write an actual book with words. But I got 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.520 a book deal out of it, and I wrote a 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.240 book about free speech called Speechless, Controlling Words, Controlling Minds, 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.959 It came out a few years ago, and I'm a 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.920 little slow to publish because conservatives in media have a 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.160 book out every single year and it's always you know 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:17.720 how to own the Libs and so can you, and 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:19.400 it's got a smirk on the cover and everything, and 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.360 I'm not really into that. I don't think i'd be 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.439 good at writing that kind of book, and it's writing 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.960 a book is too much effort with words to not 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:28.960 make it something that I think could have some influence. 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.400 So I wrote a book. At the moment that free 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.400 speech was such a powerful issue on the right, I 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.400 decided to write a book questioning our support for free speech. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.240 I felt that the right was going too far in 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.040 its defense of free speech absolutism, and was inadvertently taking 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.079 the bait that the liberals had laid out for them, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.160 and that we were actually ceding political power that we 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.840 shouldn't have seeded. So when that book came out, I'm 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.240 happy to say it hit number one on the publisher's 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.840 weekly list, number one national bestseller, which of course means 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.439 that New York Times wouldn't even acknowledge it, completely totally 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.360 ignored it. Brutal snubbing. But it is a badge of honor. Yeah, 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.480 I mean you know it. Many conservative authors know this, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.480 and it's annoying because it does affect book sales. But still, 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.360 you know, you can look at the numbers and say, okay, no, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.960 we actually did sell more than the New York Times 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:20.880 is number one and whatever. You know, Okay, they don't 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:25.240 want to promote our book. Fine, But I do think 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.640 that at that time the book helped, along with a 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:30.760 number of other people and another of other works, to 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.840 steer the conservative conversation back toward a place that I 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.599 felt it should be, which is discussing free speech not 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.360 as a matter of total freedom of speech versus total censorship, 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.600 but rather as competing systems of norms and taboos. Which 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.079 is how now you get into the debate over whether 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.079 the left should put gay porn into elementary schools. Well, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.599 if we're free speech absolutists, you know there could be 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.520 an argument to do that. But I think happily the 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.720 conversation has been moved in a more conservative direction. Inasmuch 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.600 as I played any role in that, I'm really pleased 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.440 that I could do that. But then, ultimately, an answer 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.120 to your question, no, there's a lot more story to go. 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.960 You know, I'm happy. I'm not envious or avaricious, you know, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.400 beyond my own fallen human nature. I don't feel particularly 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.680 that way, but I just feel there are many more 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.679 things we can do. And so until the Libs throw 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.199 us in the gulag or you know, I am struck 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.600 down to take a dirt nap, We're going to try 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:27.240 to keep growing. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.400 We're going to take a quick break and be right 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:36.120 back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I've really enjoyed recently 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.600 your arguments kind of aimed at men on the right 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.480 that they should get married. I think that there's a 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.560 real hole in our just political discussion about that. And 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.280 I love that you've been making that case because I 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.640 think it's become very popular to say, like why should 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.560 men get married, and it's better for them to stay single, 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.720 not have families? Who needs it? And I have really 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.120 enjoyed what you've been saying about it. What motivated you 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:03.800 to get into that? 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:04.559 Oh? 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:04.920 Thank you. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:05.240 Well. 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.400 Another big part of the whole story that I probably 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.440 glossed over is that I was an atheist for about 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:18.160 ten years, practicing atheist and even intellectually an atheist for 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.800 most of that probably and then around the age of 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:26.120 twenty three, I reverted to the Church, to Christianity, and 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:31.120 kind of meandered through various iterations of that, but ultimately 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.840 came back to the Catholic faith. And so that offers 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.560 a simple answer to the question, which is, we believe 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.360 as Christians that there are things you're supposed to do. 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.960 We believe that we can come to some of those 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.720 conclusions through a natural reason, that we can even come 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.680 to know the existence of God through natural reason. That 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.480 we don't we're not advocating kind of heretical fidaism that 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.640 you have to put reason and science and logic aside. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.520 Not far from it. Actually, Saint Thomas Aquinas, to use 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.400 just one example, is probably one of the most intelligent 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.360 and logical men who's ever walked the face of the earth. 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.440 So we come to certain conclusions using our reason, and 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:14.440 then we also, through our reason, then come to see 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.320 that there is such a thing as revelation. And then 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.000 through revelation, you know, we come to the rest of 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:24.720 the story. And so through natural arguments and with supernatural arguments, 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.600 we come to see that man is supposed to be 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.840 married because man is a political animal, not merely an 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.600 individual floating and outer space, as our liberal and some 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:34.600 of our libertarian friends think. But man is a social 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:39.840 creature and we're a coupling creature. So you know, we 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:41.920 boys like girls and girls like boys, and we deny 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.680 that factor. Yeah, So, I mean, I know it's very 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.800 controversial view now, but that's how it works, and we 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.160 can actually know something about how we ought to behave 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.360 from our own natures. That again is a controversial and 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.880 liberal modernity, but good old uncle Aristotle had it right, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.680 and Saint Thomas Aquinas and other great thinkers throughout the 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.280 Middle Ages and even into early modernity were and actually 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.120 even up till today, there are still a number of 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.360 thinkers who are advocating that view which had fallen out 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.120 of favor. So I can come to the conclusion that 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.320 it is right for me to get married, or perhaps 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.800 to follow religious life, you know, or to have a 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.440 kind of consecrated singlehood. I'm not saying that everyone has 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.880 to get married, but it is natural for me to 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.960 get married, and it is ordered toward my good And 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.240 then furthermore, we can know something about what marriage is for. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.280 So now people, you know, don't know what the definition 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.160 of marriage is. People seem to think sexual difference doesn't 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.520 have anything to do with it, but of course it does. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:40.080 That is the. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.560 Distinguishing feature, because marriage is for the procreation of children 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.640 and the education of children, and the mutual support of 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:47.200 the spouses. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:48.600 There. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.600 You know, I've got a really good buddy. I got 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.640 my best friend, and he and I smoke cigars together 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.400 and we talk about books and we I don't know, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.160 you know, go watch a baseball game or something. Well, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.800 what I do with my friend is different from what 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.160 I do with my wife, happily, and it's not possible, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.120 you know, to create a child, to educate a child, 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.000 to do the things that marriage does in other cases. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:16.280 So to me, it's just clear as day that one, 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.600 generally speaking, ought to be married. Usually we would be 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.000 arguing with the left on that top right. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.439 Funny, and that's what I don't understand, like where the 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.960 right has fallen into this trap. And I love that 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.480 you're addressing it, well. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.200 Thank you. You know, it gets to even a broader 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:38.840 issue than marriage, which is that today much of what 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.399 passes for the right is just kind of the flip 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.760 side of the left. So you know, many on the right, 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.920 I think this is waning a little bit now, happily, 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.520 But for many years, many on the right would say 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.560 I'm on the right because I'm an individualist. First, you know, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.320 I'm on the right because I'm a true liberal or 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.159 classical liberal. First, I'm on the right because and they 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:05.720 would be articulating, it would be explaining why liberalism makes 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:07.800 them conservative. But I don't call me old fashioned, call 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.000 me stagy. I'm not really a liberal, you know, I'm 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.439 a conservative, and there's a different kind of tradition for conservatives. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:14.280 Yeah. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.280 I don't appreciate that the right reacts only to the 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.560 left instead of kind of going on their own and 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.760 using you know, historical philosophies like like you were describing, 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.320 to have our current positions. 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:28.600 Right, right. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.760 I mean, I just think when when some of the 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.000 supposedly right wing people come out and they say, listen, men, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.040 the left is totally wrong, and that's why we need 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.240 to not get married. We need to fornicate, we need 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.800 to you know, not have children, not be fruitful and multiply. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.720 We need to be vulgar all the time. We need 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.320 to only pursue our individual interest and not recognize the 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.000 common good. We need to not go to church. We 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.240 need to just read Friedrik Nietzsche or something. I think, well, 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.639 you know, with right wingers like this, who needs left wingers? 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.600 I mean, this is silly. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.280 And what do you worry about, Like, what do you 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.200 think is our largest cultural problem? 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:10.240 Well, uh, not to sound to preachy here, but uh, 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.879 you know, ignoring God or explicitly denying God is not 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.119 going to work out well for his society. H And 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.439 the reason for that is is because God is is 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.360 you know, God is who he is. He's the unmoved mover, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.439 He's the uncaused cause, and we are constantly dependent on 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.159 him at every moment of the day. So if you 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.240 if you ignore that, you're you're ignoring the basis of reality. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.320 And for for listeners who are maybe more agnostic or 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:41.359 or who don't you know, don't think about religion much, 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.440 or even if they're atheists. There's a very good writer, 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.840 a contemporary writer whose name escapes me at the moment, 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.560 but he laid it out very well, which is that 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.480 Let's say you just want to debate politics, you know, 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.520 Kamala versus Trump or something, Well you're going to be debated. Well, actually, 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.679 with Kamala you probably won't be debating policies, you'll be 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.800 just debating vibes. But if you wanted to debate policies, 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.120 you would have to in order to have a policy debate, 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.240