1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: It's the Internet. People are always going to be saying 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: crazy things for attention, but it does seem like the 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: number of crazy things we hear ratchets up as we 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: head towards a major election. 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 2: This is a show. 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: About living a better life, and you'll notice that a 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: lot of my guests, who a lot of them are 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: right there in the political arena whose job is to 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: be in it, give the advice to people disconnect from 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: the Internet as much as possible. I'm on so many 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: group chats with these people, and I'll tell you that 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: it's the advice we give each other when things get 14 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: too heated online, or even if it's just a slide 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: into the crazy, like arguing that Winston Churchill was actually 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: the bad guy in World War two, or Trump is 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: of course back to being a Russian spy just in 18 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: time for November. It's easy to imagine that you have 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: to stay on the internet. 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: And have the fight. 21 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: And look, I'm not saying don't ever, sometimes you do 22 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: have to have the fight. 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: It actually is important for saner voices to be heard. 24 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: But if you find yourself driving your kid to baseball 25 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: practice while forming arguments in your head for you to 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: have an internet stranger's leader and believe me, I've done it. 27 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: That's really when it's time for as we get closer 28 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: to the election, have to preserve your mental health. You 29 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: have to remember what's important. Spend more time with. 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: The people in your actual life, not the people in 31 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: your online life. Listen to the clear voices with opinions 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: you trust, who aren't saying things for clicks and views 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: to be outrageous. 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: You know where those people are. 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: Maintain your sanity be well. Coming up next and interview 36 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: with Michael Knowles. Join us after the break. 37 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 3: My guest today is Michael Knowles. Michael is host of 39 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 3: the Michael Knowles Show on the Daily Wire. So nice 40 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 3: to have you on, Michael. 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much for having me. Wonderful to 42 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 4: be with you. 43 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: So I was thinking about this interview and I realized, 44 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: I don't know the Michael Knowles origin story. How did 45 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: you get into this thing of ours? 46 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 4: I think that I might be the only person in 47 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 4: history to get a show for not writing a book. 48 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 4: That's it. I really appreciate your using the New York 49 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: Italian slang for you know this stilly in ours, of course, 50 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 4: and I am of Italian extraction from New York. But 51 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 4: I launched my show in twenty seventeen. I did it 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 4: shortly after I published a blank book called Reasons to 53 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 4: Vote for Democrats, a. 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 3: Company I own that book. 55 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 4: I appreciate your supporting my scholarship. I did it as 57 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 4: a lark because I have worked in politics and in 58 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 4: show business since I was probably nineteen professionally in show 59 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 4: business even a little bit earlier than that, and I 60 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 4: always liked it. I worked as an actor in plays, 61 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 4: in film and TV, but I also worked in politics. 62 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 4: My first congressional campaign, I was nineteen years old. It 63 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 4: was a challenger race in the Hudson Valley, so swing 64 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 4: district but kind of liberal, and we ended up winning, 65 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 4: and I ended up playing a fairly prominent role in 66 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 4: the campaign doing media things. 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: You know. 68 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: We were running against a rock star who was an incumbent, 69 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 4: John Hall, and I basically ripped off his song and 70 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 4: rewrote it and made music videos the young voters for 71 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 4: an Orleans reunion tour that was this old band and 72 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 4: you know, so got a little bit of traction that way. 73 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 4: Then was recruited to some other campaigns and had been 74 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 4: doing that. I had been working in politics and in 75 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 4: show business. I was out in Los Angeles doing both 76 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 4: of those things, and my friend Jeremy Boring asked me 77 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 4: to join the Daily Wire, which at that time had 78 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 4: you know, five employees or something. And I was hesitant 79 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 4: to do it because I thought I did not move 80 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 4: to LA to have a real job. Nobody moved to 81 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: LA to have a real job. And so, you know, 82 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 4: he said, you idiot, you know why, just let me 83 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 4: give you health insurances, so, you know, let me help 84 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,559 Speaker 4: you pal. And so I was working at the Daily Wire. 85 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 4: I say that I was the pizza boy of the 86 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 4: Daily Wire. Then my friend Andrew Claven brought me on 87 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 4: his show as a cultural correspondent, and I had this 88 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 4: idea for the fake book, which has been done many times. 89 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 4: You know, there's everything men know about women. There is 90 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 4: the wit and wisdom of the German people, all sorts 91 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 4: of versions of it. And so I did mine. And 92 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 4: it was one way to test well, not just providence, 93 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 4: you know, it was an expression of providence, surely, but 94 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 4: it was also one way to test the beginnings of 95 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 4: the daily wire machine, right. And so I was sitting 96 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 4: around having a cigar with Jeremy and we're watching this thing. 97 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 4: It dropped and it all of a sudden, it's jumping 98 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,559 Speaker 4: up the charts on Amazon. It's number twenty five hundred. 99 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 4: Now it's number two hundred and fifty. Eventually gets up 100 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 4: to number six or something like that. I was then 101 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 4: invited on Fox the Morning Show. I go on the 102 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 4: morning show. By the time I start the morning show, 103 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 4: it's four am. By the time I get back to 104 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 4: the office and start my day, it hit number one 105 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 4: in the country. Stayed there for it was crazy. Stayed 106 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 4: there for about eleven days. Then I Simon and Schuster 107 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 4: tried to buy it, and I thought, this is very funny. 108 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 4: They want to buy nothing. So I asked my friend 109 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 4: Ben Shapiro to help me out with the book deal, 110 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 4: and so he introduced me to his literary agent who 111 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 4: was negotiating nothing. So the Simon and Schuster offered five figures, 112 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 4: which I thought was great. I'm in my twenties, I 113 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 4: was about to get married. This was amazing. And Jeremy says, Michael, 114 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 4: you can't take it. I will not allow you to 115 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 4: take a five figure advance. He says, it's only funny 116 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 4: if it's a six figure advance. And I said, Jeremy man, 117 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 4: it's a come on, it's a lot of money. 118 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: Let's you know. 119 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 4: You got to play it out all the way. And 120 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 4: we did, and there was a bidding war between two publishers. Amazing, 121 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 4: they give me six figures for nothing. It then started 122 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 4: to decline a little because they killed the joke. They 123 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 4: didn't want me to make fun of them for giving 124 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 4: me all this money for a fake book. And so 125 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 4: they said, well, how do we get the book up again? 126 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 4: I said, I don't know, put me back on Fox maybe. 127 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 4: So we go back on Fox. We'd already done the 128 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 4: bit about the blank book. So they asked me what 129 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 4: I thought about. I think it was Trump's policy in Syria, 130 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 4: and I said he was doing a good job. And coincidentally, providentially, 131 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: at that moment, our then President was watching from the 132 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 4: White House and tweeted out his ringing endorsement. 133 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: Of my book. 134 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 4: So hit number one again and then I got a 135 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 4: show out of that. And so it's a long winded 136 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 4: answer to a short question. But the short answer is 137 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 4: my origin story is I got my career for not 138 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 4: writing a book. 139 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I love that because it's so creative. 140 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: I feel like our side lacks creativity sometimes, and daily 141 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 3: Wire I feel it really brings it with the creativity. 142 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 3: I think that all the projects you guys do, all 143 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: the side stuff, you know, I got an email about 144 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: Jeremy's chocolates today. It's just so much going on, and 145 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: I really love that. I think that that's what we 146 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 3: should be doing and appealing to people kind of on 147 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: a larger scale, doing an empty book, you know, And 148 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: I think I think creativity is where it's at, and 149 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: I love that you guys are playing into it. 150 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much. I'm just upset that you 151 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 4: got the email about Jeremy's chocolates and not about my 152 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 4: Mayflower cigars. 153 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't get the Mayflowers cigars for people listening. 154 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 3: Michael just showed me his Mayflowers cigars. I want to 155 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: see all the merch. Actually, what else we have there? 156 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 4: We're now we're a merch company that has podcasts. I 157 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 4: also have my Michael Nole's candles. I've become I basically 158 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 4: only sell things that are flammable, you know. That the 159 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 4: combustibles is my merch, but you know it's it serves 160 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,119 Speaker 4: a purpose beyond making a few bucks in merch, because 161 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: you know, everybody sells T shirts or whatever. It's not 162 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 4: really about that. Our philosophy is largely what you've just expressed. 163 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 4: We want a little creativity, we want a little whimsy, 164 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: and also we want to be in the real world. 165 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 4: You know, the left controls the political order, not just 166 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 4: because they have a lot of flax in government. They 167 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: do have a lot of flax in government, and they 168 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 4: have a lot of lobbyists and whatever, but it's because 169 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 4: they control everything. So, to use a pressing example, Brittany Mahomes, 170 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 4: the wife of Patrick Mahomes, the football player. She liked 171 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: an Instagram comment supportive of Trump, and this became headline 172 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 4: news and she was bullied into unliking the comment. The 173 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 4: left controls everything, so where you know, she. 174 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 3: Ended up on liking it. I thought she was like 175 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 3: holding strong. 176 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 4: I think she I could be getting the story wrong. 177 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 4: I'm not the biggest football fan. I thought she unliked it, 178 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 4: but then kind of doubled down. Nevertheless, on the substance 179 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 4: of her So don't I don't really know exactly where 180 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 4: it stands. But you do see the stakes. You see 181 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 4: the stakes for not even just a mainstream pop culture figure. 182 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 4: It's the wife of a mainstream pop culture figure in sports, 183 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: which is manly and broadly conservative. So you know my view. Look, 184 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 4: I've wanted a cigar company for fifteen years. I pitched 185 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 4: this to the DW guys five years ago, spend a 186 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 4: year building out Mayflower and the blends and everything like that. 187 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 4: Also providential how that came to be. It's got you know, 188 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 4: it has American historical resonances and all that stuff. But 189 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 4: the other reason why I want to have the cigars 190 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 4: and the candles and the tumblers and the razors and 191 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 4: the chocolates and all this stuff is because we are 192 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 4: incarnate creatures and we move through time and space, and 193 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 4: we are bodies as well as souls. And if we 194 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 4: want to transform the culture, we can't just be reaching 195 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 4: people in their earbuds. We can't just have one point 196 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 4: of contact. It's got to be we have to be 197 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 4: contacting people, not just the choir. We got to be 198 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 4: contacting all sorts of people everywhere. 199 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 3: They are absolutely you know, my kids always make fun 200 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: of like the commercials on TV will just be like 201 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: we believe, and it's always from the left. It's always 202 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 3: we believe and some random leftist value, you know. And 203 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: so I love that idea of like products and tangible 204 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 3: things that the rest of us can be into, the 205 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 3: rest of us can can have and hold. I think 206 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: that's just a great idea, and I love that Dailly 207 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: Wire does it. So do you feel like you've made 208 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: it after the story that you've told us. 209 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: The closest I've felt is probably getting the cigar company, 210 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 4: you know, and this was a real childhood dream. 211 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: But I don't know. 212 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 4: I feel happy with my station in life, and I 213 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 4: feel that I'm permitted to do good work, and I'm 214 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 4: glad that I have some influence in politics and I 215 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 4: can maybe steer certain conversations, you know. As a result 216 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 4: of my blank book, I was offered the opportunity to 217 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 4: write what the publisher is called another book. Now, I 218 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 4: pointed out this, I had not at that point done 219 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 4: anything that could reasonably lead them to conclude that I 220 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 4: could write an actual book with words. But I got 221 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 4: a book deal out of it, and I wrote a 222 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 4: book about free speech called Speechless, Controlling Words, Controlling Minds, 223 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 4: It came out a few years ago, and I'm a 224 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 4: little slow to publish because conservatives in media have a 225 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 4: book out every single year and it's always you know 226 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 4: how to own the Libs and so can you, and 227 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 4: it's got a smirk on the cover and everything, and 228 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 4: I'm not really into that. I don't think i'd be 229 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 4: good at writing that kind of book, and it's writing 230 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 4: a book is too much effort with words to not 231 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 4: make it something that I think could have some influence. 232 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 4: So I wrote a book. At the moment that free 233 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 4: speech was such a powerful issue on the right, I 234 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 4: decided to write a book questioning our support for free speech. 235 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 4: I felt that the right was going too far in 236 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 4: its defense of free speech absolutism, and was inadvertently taking 237 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 4: the bait that the liberals had laid out for them, 238 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 4: and that we were actually ceding political power that we 239 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 4: shouldn't have seeded. So when that book came out, I'm 240 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 4: happy to say it hit number one on the publisher's 241 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 4: weekly list, number one national bestseller, which of course means 242 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 4: that New York Times wouldn't even acknowledge it, completely totally 243 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 4: ignored it. Brutal snubbing. But it is a badge of honor. Yeah, 244 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 4: I mean you know it. Many conservative authors know this, 245 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 4: and it's annoying because it does affect book sales. But still, 246 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 4: you know, you can look at the numbers and say, okay, no, 247 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 4: we actually did sell more than the New York Times 248 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 4: is number one and whatever. You know, Okay, they don't 249 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 4: want to promote our book. Fine, But I do think 250 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 4: that at that time the book helped, along with a 251 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 4: number of other people and another of other works, to 252 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 4: steer the conservative conversation back toward a place that I 253 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 4: felt it should be, which is discussing free speech not 254 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 4: as a matter of total freedom of speech versus total censorship, 255 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 4: but rather as competing systems of norms and taboos. Which 256 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 4: is how now you get into the debate over whether 257 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 4: the left should put gay porn into elementary schools. Well, 258 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,599 Speaker 4: if we're free speech absolutists, you know there could be 259 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 4: an argument to do that. But I think happily the 260 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 4: conversation has been moved in a more conservative direction. Inasmuch 261 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 4: as I played any role in that, I'm really pleased 262 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 4: that I could do that. But then, ultimately, an answer 263 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 4: to your question, no, there's a lot more story to go. 264 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 4: You know, I'm happy. I'm not envious or avaricious, you know, 265 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 4: beyond my own fallen human nature. I don't feel particularly 266 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 4: that way, but I just feel there are many more 267 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 4: things we can do. And so until the Libs throw 268 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 4: us in the gulag or you know, I am struck 269 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 4: down to take a dirt nap, We're going to try 270 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 4: to keep growing. 271 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break and be right 272 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I've really enjoyed recently 273 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: your arguments kind of aimed at men on the right 274 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 3: that they should get married. I think that there's a 275 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 3: real hole in our just political discussion about that. And 276 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: I love that you've been making that case because I 277 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: think it's become very popular to say, like why should 278 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 3: men get married, and it's better for them to stay single, 279 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: not have families? Who needs it? And I have really 280 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: enjoyed what you've been saying about it. What motivated you 281 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 3: to get into that? 282 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: Oh? 283 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 4: Thank you. 284 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: Well. 285 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 4: Another big part of the whole story that I probably 286 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 4: glossed over is that I was an atheist for about 287 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 4: ten years, practicing atheist and even intellectually an atheist for 288 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 4: most of that probably and then around the age of 289 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: twenty three, I reverted to the Church, to Christianity, and 290 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 4: kind of meandered through various iterations of that, but ultimately 291 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 4: came back to the Catholic faith. And so that offers 292 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 4: a simple answer to the question, which is, we believe 293 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 4: as Christians that there are things you're supposed to do. 294 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 4: We believe that we can come to some of those 295 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 4: conclusions through a natural reason, that we can even come 296 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 4: to know the existence of God through natural reason. That 297 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 4: we don't we're not advocating kind of heretical fidaism that 298 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: you have to put reason and science and logic aside. 299 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 4: Not far from it. Actually, Saint Thomas Aquinas, to use 300 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 4: just one example, is probably one of the most intelligent 301 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 4: and logical men who's ever walked the face of the earth. 302 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 4: So we come to certain conclusions using our reason, and 303 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 4: then we also, through our reason, then come to see 304 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 4: that there is such a thing as revelation. And then 305 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 4: through revelation, you know, we come to the rest of 306 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 4: the story. And so through natural arguments and with supernatural arguments, 307 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 4: we come to see that man is supposed to be 308 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 4: married because man is a political animal, not merely an 309 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 4: individual floating and outer space, as our liberal and some 310 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 4: of our libertarian friends think. But man is a social 311 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 4: creature and we're a coupling creature. So you know, we 312 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 4: boys like girls and girls like boys, and we deny 313 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 4: that factor. Yeah, So, I mean, I know it's very 314 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 4: controversial view now, but that's how it works, and we 315 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 4: can actually know something about how we ought to behave 316 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 4: from our own natures. That again is a controversial and 317 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 4: liberal modernity, but good old uncle Aristotle had it right, 318 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 4: and Saint Thomas Aquinas and other great thinkers throughout the 319 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 4: Middle Ages and even into early modernity were and actually 320 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 4: even up till today, there are still a number of 321 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 4: thinkers who are advocating that view which had fallen out 322 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 4: of favor. So I can come to the conclusion that 323 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 4: it is right for me to get married, or perhaps 324 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 4: to follow religious life, you know, or to have a 325 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 4: kind of consecrated singlehood. I'm not saying that everyone has 326 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 4: to get married, but it is natural for me to 327 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 4: get married, and it is ordered toward my good And 328 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 4: then furthermore, we can know something about what marriage is for. 329 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 4: So now people, you know, don't know what the definition 330 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 4: of marriage is. People seem to think sexual difference doesn't 331 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: have anything to do with it, but of course it does. 332 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: That is the. 333 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 4: Distinguishing feature, because marriage is for the procreation of children 334 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: and the education of children, and the mutual support of 335 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 4: the spouses. 336 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: There. 337 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 4: You know, I've got a really good buddy. I got 338 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 4: my best friend, and he and I smoke cigars together 339 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 4: and we talk about books and we I don't know, 340 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 4: you know, go watch a baseball game or something. Well, 341 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 4: what I do with my friend is different from what 342 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 4: I do with my wife, happily, and it's not possible, 343 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 4: you know, to create a child, to educate a child, 344 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 4: to do the things that marriage does in other cases. 345 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 4: So to me, it's just clear as day that one, 346 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 4: generally speaking, ought to be married. Usually we would be 347 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 4: arguing with the left on that top right. 348 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 3: Funny, and that's what I don't understand, like where the 349 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 3: right has fallen into this trap. And I love that 350 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: you're addressing it, well. 351 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 4: Thank you. You know, it gets to even a broader 352 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 4: issue than marriage, which is that today much of what 353 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 4: passes for the right is just kind of the flip 354 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 4: side of the left. So you know, many on the right, 355 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 4: I think this is waning a little bit now, happily, 356 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 4: But for many years, many on the right would say 357 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 4: I'm on the right because I'm an individualist. First, you know, 358 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 4: I'm on the right because I'm a true liberal or 359 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 4: classical liberal. First, I'm on the right because and they 360 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 4: would be articulating, it would be explaining why liberalism makes 361 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 4: them conservative. But I don't call me old fashioned, call 362 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 4: me stagy. I'm not really a liberal, you know, I'm 363 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 4: a conservative, and there's a different kind of tradition for conservatives. 364 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 365 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 3: I don't appreciate that the right reacts only to the 366 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 3: left instead of kind of going on their own and 367 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 3: using you know, historical philosophies like like you were describing, 368 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 3: to have our current positions. 369 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: Right, right. 370 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 4: I mean, I just think when when some of the 371 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 4: supposedly right wing people come out and they say, listen, men, 372 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 4: the left is totally wrong, and that's why we need 373 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 4: to not get married. We need to fornicate, we need 374 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: to you know, not have children, not be fruitful and multiply. 375 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 4: We need to be vulgar all the time. We need 376 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 4: to only pursue our individual interest and not recognize the 377 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 4: common good. We need to not go to church. We 378 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 4: need to just read Friedrik Nietzsche or something. I think, well, 379 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 4: you know, with right wingers like this, who needs left wingers? 380 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 4: I mean, this is silly. 381 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 3: And what do you worry about, Like, what do you 382 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 3: think is our largest cultural problem? 383 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 4: Well, uh, not to sound to preachy here, but uh, 384 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 4: you know, ignoring God or explicitly denying God is not 385 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 4: going to work out well for his society. H And 386 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 4: the reason for that is is because God is is 387 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 4: you know, God is who he is. He's the unmoved mover, 388 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 4: He's the uncaused cause, and we are constantly dependent on 389 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 4: him at every moment of the day. So if you 390 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 4: if you ignore that, you're you're ignoring the basis of reality. 391 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 4: And for for listeners who are maybe more agnostic or 392 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 4: or who don't you know, don't think about religion much, 393 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 4: or even if they're atheists. There's a very good writer, 394 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 4: a contemporary writer whose name escapes me at the moment, 395 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 4: but he laid it out very well, which is that 396 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: Let's say you just want to debate politics, you know, 397 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 4: Kamala versus Trump or something, Well you're going to be debated. Well, actually, 398 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 4: with Kamala you probably won't be debating policies, you'll be 399 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 4: just debating vibes. But if you wanted to debate policies, 400 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 4: you would have to in order to have a policy debate, 401 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 4: you would have to have recourse to practical morality. Why 402 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 4: this is good, why that is bad? And if you're 403 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 4: gonna have recourse to practical morality, then you have to 404 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 4: come back to the moral order. More broadly, if you're 405 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 4: going to have debates about the moral order, which is 406 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 4: not something I can touch and feel, right, you have 407 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 4: to you have to use deduction and logic and philosophy. 408 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 4: Then you have to come to certain conclusions about epistemology, 409 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 4: which is how we can know anything at all. How 410 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 4: can I know that this class is filled with Seltzer 411 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 4: right now? Well, it's because I'm a millennial and millennials 412 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 4: love fruity Seltzers. But but you know I. 413 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 3: Can know because Seltzer should be I leegal gen x. 414 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 4: Well there you go, exactly, this is that I could. 415 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 4: I could know that with my reason exactly. But but 416 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 4: then you have got a pistemology. Okay, well, then you 417 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 4: have to have some recourse to anthropology. What is a human? 418 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: Can? 419 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 4: Does a human have faculties of reason that are reliable? 420 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 4: How do I how do I know that the things 421 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 4: I think can be trusted? It's an important question for 422 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 4: self government too. Well, Well, if you're asking questions about anthropology, 423 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 4: you know, what is a man? Then you got to 424 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 4: ask questions about ontology, what is being? How do I 425 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 4: know about anything that exists? And then ultimately, even if 426 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 4: you're being dragged, kicking and screaming as an atheist, you've 427 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: got to come to questions of theology. How does anything 428 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 4: that is come to be? You know what undergirds all 429 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 4: of that? And so whether whether you like it or not, 430 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: you've got to come to those questions. And notice, now 431 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 4: as the culture has kicked out God, especially in the 432 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 4: middle of the twentieth century, by banning prayer in schools 433 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 4: and the Bible in schools because we've got to put 434 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 4: all that gay porn in the elementary school, so we 435 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 4: can't have the Bible there. It's taken up too much 436 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 4: classroom time. When they kick out God, then you get 437 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 4: all these kind of crazy downstream conclusions from that. Some 438 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: people will conclude that a man, well that a man 439 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 4: might be a woman and a woman might be a man. 440 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 4: That's kind of a weird anthropological conclusion. But if you're 441 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 4: confused on your first principles, you're going to get confused there. 442 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 4: Some people are going to conclude that we can't really 443 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 4: know anything I think of You know, the writers who 444 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 4: have influenced this thought dry daff Huc who kind of 445 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 4: raised questions about what we can actually know, how much 446 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 4: we can rather different than say, the scholastics of the 447 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 4: Middle Ages. There are going to be people who say 448 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 4: that there's no such morality. It's all socially constructed. You know, 449 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 4: it's all just inasmuch as there's a moral order, it's 450 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 4: just out of convenience. But that means that morality doesn't 451 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 4: exist at all. And so now you're back at the 452 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 4: political fight and you can't really say anything about politics 453 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 4: because you're so confused about everything that undergirds politics. And 454 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 4: that is right, I mean to bring it all back 455 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 4: to where we started. That is how you get the 456 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 4: vibe election, right, That's how today Kamala Harris on her 457 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 4: campaign website doesn't have a platform link. There's no nowhere 458 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 4: on the website. Trump does, it's the first link. Kamala doesn't, 459 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 4: because you know, man, what's it all even mean? 460 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: Man? 461 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 3: You know, Brad election. 462 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 4: This could be a Brad election. 463 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 464 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: I think that that's such a good point that without 465 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 3: any foundation, you're kind of a drift. I think a 466 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 3: lot of people feel that way and just don't know 467 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: how to verbalize it. So I love talking to you. 468 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 3: This has been way deeper than I thought. You know, 469 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 3: I thought we're going to just like like conversation. 470 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 4: I think after this. 471 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 3: But leave us here with your best tip for my 472 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: listeners on how they can improve their lives. 473 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 4: H Well, this really is you know, political and media 474 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 4: podcast took a real religious turn. It really did how 475 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 4: it goes. I would say, first thing you ought to 476 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 4: do is open your mind to the possibility that God exists. 477 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: If you've already done that, then you should act as 478 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 4: though God exists, meaning don't do all those nasty things 479 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 4: that you're doing that you know you're tempted to do, 480 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 4: and do better things that are good for you, and 481 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 4: pray and maybe go to church. Maybe if you're a 482 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 4: macrorel snapping papist like me. Even if you're not, you 483 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 4: might consider sacramental confession. I think is very helpful psychologically 484 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 4: and also spiritually efficacious. 485 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 2: And just. 486 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,239 Speaker 4: Begin with that standpoint of epistemological humility to think that, 487 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 4: you know, maybe the great geniuses of history, like statistically 488 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 4: every intelligent person ever going back to antiquity, maybe they 489 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 4: had something right that we don't have right. And maybe 490 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 4: as you see all of these scary sociological indicators that 491 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 4: things are going wrong, you know, skyrocking rates of depression, anxiety, suicidality, 492 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 4: the fact that virtually every woman in America is on 493 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 4: some kind of depression drug. I mean, you know, cross 494 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 4: this party lines, across the geographic lines that I'm not 495 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 4: totally knocking any of these treatments, but that's not a 496 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 4: good indicator. You know, some people are depressed. There's obviously 497 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 4: something going wrong. The fact that you have skyrocking rates 498 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 4: of people living alone, You've never really seen that in history, 499 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 4: that the plumbing rates of marriage, plumbing rates of childbirth, 500 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 4: skyrocking rates of abortion. You know, these are things it's 501 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 4: hard to see what the good in all of that is. 502 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 4: So then that leads you to say, okay, well, maybe 503 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 4: some other people, at other eras, maybe they had things 504 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 4: a little bit more right than we do, and maybe 505 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 4: I will, in a true spirit of humility, accept the 506 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 4: possibility that they were right about something, you know. Buckley 507 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 4: and God and Man at Yale quotes a president of 508 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 4: Yale who's a liberal, but who nonetheless points out he says, 509 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 4: skepticism has utility only when it leads to conviction, Meaning 510 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 4: it's good to have an open mind, but you don't 511 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 4: want your mind to be so open that your brain 512 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 4: falls out. Eventually, you have to come to conclusions. You know, 513 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 4: this is a finite world. We live in time and space, 514 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 4: and so to the best of your ability come to 515 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 4: those conclusions. Maybe pray for God's grace to come to 516 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 4: better conclusions and get that in order. It's sort of 517 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 4: like the marriage thing. You know, people say, don't get 518 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 4: married until you've got ten maseratis and a great career 519 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 4: and eight figures in your bank account. That's getting it backwards. 520 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: Man. 521 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 4: Even if you do aspire to those things, being married 522 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 4: and being a response consable man will help you become 523 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 4: the kind of man who can be professionally successful. And 524 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 4: that's even an earlier order of that, because marriage is 525 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 4: a symbol of God's love, Christ's love for his church 526 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 4: at an earlier level. If you get your spiritual life 527 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 4: in order, if you get your moral life in order, 528 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 4: if you're right now, if you're vicious, maybe try to 529 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 4: just become incontinent. You know, if you're in continent, try 530 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 4: to become continent. You know, the things that you that 531 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 4: are bad, that are harming you, try not to do. 532 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 4: Once you become continent, maybe try to actually desire those 533 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 4: good things and become virtuous. It will it will make 534 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 4: your life much better in every capacity. And if you 535 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 4: really desire the maserati, it will even make you more 536 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 4: likely to get the maserati. 537 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I talk about that a lot on this show. 538 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 3: I fully agree with that marriage leads to so many 539 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 3: good things, and I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much. 540 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 3: He is Michael Knowles. Check out the Michael Knowles Show 541 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 3: on Daily Wire buy all of his products, May Flowers, 542 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 3: Cigars and all the rest of it. Thank you so much, Michael, 543 00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 3: Thank you Krole. 544 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: Great to be with you. 545 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us on the can Marker 546 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 2: which show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.