1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Judge Lynon Weber set a 2 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: trial date of April twenty seventh. That's despite arguments by 3 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: r Kelly's attorneys for more times, since this is just 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: one of four ongoing cases against the singer. R Kelly 5 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 1: said nothing as he stood through this morning's hearing in 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: an Orange jail jumpsuit. His attorneys argued for more time 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: given what they called voluminous discovery in this case, which 8 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: includes two co defendants. Those former associates allegedly helped Kelly 9 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: to pay off witnesses in his two thousand and eight 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: child porn trial and buy back incriminating sex tapes. Ahead 11 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: of today's hearing, prosecutors had the Grammy winner moved into 12 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: the general jail population from solitary confinement after a defense 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: motion claiming harsh restrictions for an unconvicted man awaiting trial. 14 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: I think if you saw Robert today, he looks probably 15 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: the best he's looked since this ordeal began. You can 16 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: see kind of an unburdening of his spirit, the fact 17 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: that he's now in general population. The singing sensation r 18 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: Kelly moved into general population the strangest part of his 19 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: argument was when prosecutors dismisstreatment claims by r Kelly, claiming 20 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: that he had been living it up, buying tons of 21 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: snacks from the commissary, including snickers, bars, kicking back. Kind 22 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: of a hero behind bars. Long story short, R Kelly, 23 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: You're going to trial. All the whining about life behind 24 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: bars when, according to prosecutors, he's been holding women in 25 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: his quote compound, underage girls and molesting them. I'm Nancy Grace. 26 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 27 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: With me Leavipage Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. What's 28 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: the latest with r Kelly? Nancy. R Kelly is wanted 29 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: by the courts after a bench warrant was issued for 30 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: his arrest in Minnesota for failure to appear. And this 31 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: was just a two minute hearing, but Senior Hennepin County 32 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: Attorney Judith Cole said that no attorney had been in 33 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: contact with her office or filed a certificate of representation 34 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: for r Kelly. And remember, Nancy, he's facing two counts 35 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: of engaging in prostitution with a person under eighteen in Minnesota, 36 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: and this bench warrant is non voluntary, so he has 37 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 1: to show up to court next time. And here's the thing. 38 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: Kelly is currently being held in the Federal Metropolitan Correctional 39 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: Facility in Chicago on sex crimes charges. Kelly's attorney, Steve Greenberg, 40 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: has disputed that his client failed to appear in Minnesota. 41 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: He said on Twitter, quote, I was not served with 42 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: any notice of court proceedings, nor was he. I did 43 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: not resist his appearance, nor did he. He also pointed 44 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: out Nancy that R. Kelly is in custody. Greenberg says, 45 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: it is the prosecutor who must obtain a court order 46 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: for R. Kelly to appear, and it's the prosecutor who 47 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: must go get him if he is in custody somewhere else. 48 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: They do not just give him a travel pass from 49 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: federal custody. That's from Steve Greenberg, his lawyer, and Nancy. 50 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: The Illinois US Attorney's office has apparently told the Minnesota 51 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: courts that it will not make Kelly available until after 52 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: his federal case is all finished. And this criminal complaint 53 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: says in two thousand and one that a minor approached R. Kelly, 54 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: asked him for an autograph, and he gave the seventeen 55 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: year old number when she met Kelly. He gave her 56 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: two hundred dollars to dance for him, and he allegedly 57 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: touched her sexually. And this is all on top of R. 58 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Kelly being moved into general population Nancy. And what is 59 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: so odd about this is that his lawyers have complained 60 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: about mistreatment and jail. Yet there's a recorded phone call 61 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: that prosecutors say they have where he's bragging about how 62 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: popular he is. And he even did not want to 63 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: be in general population at one time because he said 64 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: that he was so popular people would be coming up 65 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: to him all the time, so he didn't even want 66 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: to be in general population. So his claims of mistreatment 67 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: are not very credible considering the fact that he's bragged 68 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: about how popular he is. Take a listen to this. 69 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: Earlier today, Robert Kelly was indicted before a Cook County 70 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: grand jury on ten counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse 71 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: involving four victims. The first victim initials HW, was involved 72 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: in incidents which occurred between May twenty six to nineteen 73 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: ninety eight and May twenty fifth, nineteen ninety nine. A 74 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: grand jury returned an indictment on four counts of aggravated 75 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: criminal sexual abuse based on the victim being under the 76 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: age of seventeen and Robert Kelly being more than five 77 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: years older than the victim. The second victim, initials r 78 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: L was involved in an incident which occurred between September 79 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: twenty sixth, nineteen ninety eight and September twenty fifth, two 80 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: thousand and one. A grand jury returned an indictment on 81 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: two counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the 82 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: victims being under the age of seventeen and Robert Kelly 83 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: being more than five years older than that victim. The 84 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: third victim, initials LC was involved in an incident which 85 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: occurred February eighteenth, two thousand and three. A grand jury 86 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: returned an indictment on one count of aggravated criminal sexual 87 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: abuse based on the transmission of seamen by Robert Kelly 88 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: upon any part of the body of the victim for 89 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: the purpose of sexual gratification during the course of an 90 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: underlying felony of attempt criminal sexual assault. The fourth victim, 91 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: initials JP was involved in incidents which occurred between May first, 92 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine and January thirty first, two thousand 93 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: and ten. A grand jury returned in indictment on the 94 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: three counts three counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based 95 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: on the victim being under the age of seventeen and 96 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: Robert Kelly being more than five years older than the victim. 97 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: Aggravated criminal sexual abuse is a class to felony with 98 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: the sentencing range of three to seven years for account. 99 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: It is also probationable. You were hearing there the prosecutor, 100 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: Kimberly Fox in Cook County. But you're never going to 101 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: believe this. The defense attorneys and all of our Kelly's supporters, 102 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: including his two girlfriends, were in court, want him released. 103 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: Listen to our friend at WGNTV. This is Nancy Lee. 104 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: Kelly's attorneys are asking the judge to release the R 105 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: and B singer while he waits for trial, arguing that 106 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: he's not a danger to the community because many of 107 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: the allegations are decades old. They also don't think Kelly 108 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: should have prisoners as roommates. Kelly's attorneys are arguing that 109 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: he should get to live with his not one, but 110 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: two girlfriends in a secure facility such as a townhouse, 111 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: a place that's appropriate, they'll be safe for him and 112 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: that can house. The women are part of his relationship, 113 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: so we can't tell you where he would be living. 114 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: His federal trial in the Northern District of Illinois is 115 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: slated for April twenty seven, twenty twenty, and it's expected 116 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: to last about three weeks. In the meantime, he'll likely 117 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: need to appear for dozens of hearings in regards to 118 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: his three other cases in New York, Minnesota, and Cook County. 119 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm surprising to do extending because it has been so 120 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: much coming at him, but you know, he does have 121 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: found that supports him. We heard from Kelly's younger sisters, 122 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: Lisa and Cassandra Kelly, for the first time since Kelly's 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: arrest in July for sex abuse, child pornography, and obstruction 124 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: of justice. They were joined by a group of R. 125 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: Kelly's supporters who traveled to Chicago for this morning's hearing. 126 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: He don't like little girls. He don't mess with fourteen 127 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: to fifteen to six year old Kelly's close friends argued 128 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: that Lifetimes Surviving R. Kelly documentary poisoned the public against 129 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: the singer, and he'll be acquitted again. Meanwhile, federal prosecutors 130 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: have argued that Kelly's acquittal was due to the fact 131 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: that he manipulated the victims and their families. That's our 132 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: friend at WGNTV, Nancy lou Now, as you were just 133 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: hearing from Crime Online dot Com investigator reporter Levi Page R. 134 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: Kelly has just been moved out of solitary confinement and 135 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: into GP general population, but prosecutors are fighting back against 136 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: claims by his defense team he was held in solitary 137 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: against his will, and they point very clearly two recorded 138 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: jailhouse calls PS all the costs from the Gael are recorded, okay, 139 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: and there's a warning that you hear when you accept 140 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: a call from the jail that it's from a Gael. Okay. 141 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: On those calls, he explained why he refused to go 142 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: into general population when it had been offered, and he 143 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: claims he was worried about his fame making him too 144 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: popular among unquote regular inmates. Who does he think he 145 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: is special? Quote if I go to population, I'm just 146 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: up on everybody, and everybody's up on me, and I'm 147 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,239 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to trust that or whatever. 148 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: He goes on to talk about why he doesn't want 149 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: quote too many people up on you. I've seen too 150 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: many movies and it's just that I'm so popular here. 151 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, man, okay, that's what I know. Crime 152 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace back to leave my page. Crime 153 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,599 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigator report of what else do we 154 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: know what's happening in the case, Well, we know Nancy 155 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: that the trial in Chicago, Cook County is scheduled to 156 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: start in April of twenty twenty, and he's accused of 157 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: assaulting one woman that was an adult and sexually abusing 158 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: three girls that were miners. He also has charges in 159 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: a federal indictment in New York where he's accused of 160 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: racketeering where he and his cohorts are alleged to have 161 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: found underage girls at concerts, groomed, then later for sexual abuse, 162 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: and then pay them off. He also had allegedly made 163 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: tapes of his encounters sexual encounters rape of these young women, 164 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: and some of the tapes had gone missing and he 165 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: was paying a bunch of money to get them back 166 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: and that's where the racketeering charges come in. And he's 167 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: also charged in you know, Minnesota, and a lot of 168 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: jurisdictions are coming down on him with his long long 169 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: history of allegedly praying on young women, and not only him, 170 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: but people that work for him too. His manager is 171 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: one of the cohorts that was involved in this as well. 172 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: It's very disturbing to Troice Layton joining us now from 173 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: LA renowned defense attorney Troice Layton. His defense team is 174 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: claiming that he was subjected to quote cruel and unusual 175 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: punishment behind bars due to his celebrity status, and the 176 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: excuters point out they claim that he had had no 177 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: meaningful interaction with other humans. This is by defense attorney 178 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: Steve Greenberg, who I've spoken to many times, but prosecutors 179 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: say Kelly has had access to indoor recreation area three 180 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: times a week, that he has had three different cell mates, 181 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: despite his claim he has had no interaction with other 182 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: humans and that he's leaving it up in the commissary. 183 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: What about that? It doesn't sound too bad to me. 184 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: The cruel and unusual punishment is prohibited by the Constitution, 185 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: and if it happens, being inside solitary confinement isn't like 186 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: in the movies. It's not like Shawshank Redemption, where you're 187 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: in the hole and everything is black and a little 188 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: slit opens up where food, bread and water is pushed 189 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: through a hole bread and water. That's not true. Why 190 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: do you even say that. Why are we saying that 191 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: that's not true, Nancy. Solitary confinement I'm saying, is not 192 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: like that. It can be simply not being able to 193 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: communicate with other people and having a cell mate who 194 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: is put in with you, who is being punished for 195 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: his own reasons. There are reports that one of the 196 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: people that they put in with R. Kelly was being 197 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: punished for making homemade shives, that's homemade stabbing devices in jail, 198 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: and that's why he was being punished in solitary confinement. 199 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: So it seems like the jailer, oh I thought it 200 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: was because, as he said in his own words, he 201 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: was too popular for GP. He said that, he said 202 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: that it's on a type recording. I don't care how 203 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: much do you want to doctor up. You can go 204 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: on to put perfume on the pig. But he's the 205 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: one that said he's just too popular for GPA. It 206 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: looks like they were trying to punish him to trying 207 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: to intimidate him by separating him from people, which can 208 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: cause a normal person to go crazy. Wanted solitary. He's 209 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: the one that asked for it. Well, clearly his attorneys 210 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: were arguing against it, and they wanted him to be 211 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: able to interact with thirty or forty people on a 212 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: regular floor where he can have some sort of meanful 213 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: human interaction and daily recreation. He had no access to TV. 214 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: He had no access to the outside of him. Oh 215 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: oh wait, wait, wait, no access to team hasn't been 216 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: convicted of a crime, He's no access to TV. I 217 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: can't believe you even said that. I got another question 218 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: confounding mate, doctor Daniel Bober joining me out of the 219 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: Florida jurisdiction. Forensic psychiatrist, doctor Bober. Who are these women? 220 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: Who are these people? Are Kelly supporters turning out in court? 221 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: What is wrong with them? And these are the same 222 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: people that are obsessed with serial killers, who are groupies. 223 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: They are obsessed by fame and they want to be 224 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: around famous people. And this guy is basically doing the 225 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: same thing in prison that he did in real life, 226 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: which is why he's in prison, which is he doesn't 227 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: think the rules apply to him and he's special because 228 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: he's a celebrity and he didn't do anything wrong. Um 229 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: back to you, Royce Slayton, I found out another cruel 230 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: and unusual punishment that's being inflicted on him. According to 231 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: his lawyers, he's quite miserable in jail because he's not 232 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: being allowed to read his fan mail. M M sorry, 233 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: just coughing, not laughing. So you mean you miserable because 234 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: he can't read his fanmailbody who has been not convicted 235 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: of a crime, who is merely being jailed because he 236 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: is accused of a crime. So he is a lot 237 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: of crimes on children. Do you still believe in someone 238 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: being innocent until proven guilty. Hey, this is not about me. 239 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: This is not about what I believe. This is about 240 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: him saying cruel unusual punishment is because he can't read 241 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: his fan mail, keeping him from correspondence. A person who's 242 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: not been convicted does seem improper, does not seem right. 243 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: He gets visits, he has recreation, He's going down on 244 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: one Snickers bar after the next. Doesn't sound cruel to me. 245 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: I don't see how you can have full access Joseph 246 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan to the Commissary. Joseph Scott Morgan, win Me 247 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, full access 248 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: to the Commissary. You see your lawyers every day and 249 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: your winning. Because you don't have a TV, you can't 250 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: read your fan mail. Well, I gotta tell you, Nancy, 251 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: mister Kelly better live high off the hog while he can, 252 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: because it would appear to me that the authorities, all 253 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: of the investigators involved in this. I was listening to 254 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: that role call that was played earlier where that resortation 255 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: of all of these charges. They have got such a 256 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: litany of evidence that it's going to be brought against 257 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: mister Kelly and whoa, whoa wait, Please with me, Professor Forensics, 258 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: jacksonvill State University. Let's talk about the evidence so I 259 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: can quit arguing with TROYE. Layton about snickers and fan mail. 260 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: Let's get down to the nitty gritty. Let's detail the evidence. 261 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: Joe Scott. Yeah, I'm one of the most larying things 262 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: that they mentioned, as disgusting as it is, was that 263 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: apparently there's ejaculate that has been left behind by minister. 264 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: Why do you talk like that? Oh well, I don't know. 265 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: Why do you say ejaculate? Nobody knows what you're talking about. 266 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: You're talking about spurn and so yeah, and so we're 267 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: you're gonna see I believe if if the police have 268 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: handled this correctly, you're gonna literally see a molecular connection 269 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: between Kelly and his victims. It doesn't matter if these 270 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: young women were maybe consensual in some way, this is 271 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: statutory rate. He's been involved with children, Nancy. And also 272 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: you've got this long line of electronic evidence that they're 273 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: going to present, things like phone calls, seems like phone records, 274 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: things like videography that he has that he is attempted 275 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: to buy back. They have evidence of that. It's going 276 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: to be a very difficult road road to go down 277 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: for mister Kelly and his defense. When you refer to videotapes, 278 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: what are you talking about, Jo Scott Well, with the 279 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: videography that they have, he's actually engaged, allegedly, allegedly in 280 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: sexual acts with these children, these underage women that he 281 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: has been engaging with, and not only him, but also 282 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: some of his associates allegedly. So you're going to have 283 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,959 Speaker 1: this connection of all these people. And let me tell 284 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: you something, when the pot of gold dries up and 285 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: all these people around him are connected to this and 286 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: they realize what they're faced with, you know, you'll start 287 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: seeing people seeing like a bird when they're faced with 288 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: the idea that, look, you know, we were just here 289 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: as peripheral participants. He's really the bad guy. And I 290 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: bet that they're going to get some of these people 291 00:18:45,960 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: to flip on it. Crime story with Nancy Grace, the 292 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: Singing Sensation r Kelly moved into general population. Take a 293 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: listen to this. Later this month, the defense will argue 294 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: for reconsideration a bond and possible release, with Kelly's two 295 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: girlfriends serving as custodians. They were in court today along 296 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: with a number of fans and some relatives, including two 297 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: of Kelly's sisters and Brave. He's holding up, Thank God 298 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: for that. He has faith that everything's going to work 299 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: out the way it should, you know, under circumstances. You know, 300 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: I'm surprising steal standing because it's been so much coming 301 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: at him. But you know, he does have found that 302 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: supports him. The April twenty seventh trial date is tentative 303 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: since it's unclear how the other four other three cases 304 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: might proceed, those in Illinois, New York as well as Minnesota. 305 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 1: In this case, prosecutors expect a trial to last about 306 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: three weeks. That's our friend at WGN TV Nancy Lou 307 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of amazing to John Cardillo, former 308 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: NYPD that it took a documentary on Lifetime surviving R. 309 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: Kelly to bring about new charges after one jury acquitted 310 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: him out of Chicago many many years ago. What about that, 311 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,959 Speaker 1: John Cardillo, It took a documentary on Lifetime. Yeah, I mean, 312 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: I feel like we've been talking about this case since 313 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, right, But it does show a troubling 314 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: truth and that when you're a wealthy celebrity and you 315 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: have millions of dollars to spend on your defense, and 316 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: this guy is very wealthy, a lot of hit songs, 317 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: that there's a different standard of justice for you. And 318 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: he's had the best lawyers. He's been able to hold 319 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: things at bay, you know, and his lawyers are I mean, 320 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: I find it ludicrous this guy was. They're using solitary confinement, 321 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: which is even a misnomer. He was an administrative segregation, 322 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: which is common for celebrities. Typically it's like a dorm 323 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: type room jail cell. It's not he's not in there, 324 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, in the whole nude in a filthy room 325 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: with rats running around the floor, and it's stone and 326 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: he's given a filthy blanket to sleep on. This is 327 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: just him once again playing the victim in Martyr, And 328 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: I think the travesty here is that these victims are 329 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: being turned they're being vilified. He's got these moronic would 330 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: mc colton fans, their cultists who are coming out crying 331 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: for this guy who was a child sexual predator, and 332 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: his victims are having to relive this over and over 333 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: and over again. So hopefully the Feds, which have a 334 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: much higher conviction rate than the state, and a lot 335 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: of resources at their disposal, hopefully the DOJ can finally 336 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: put this guy behind bars because I disagree with his 337 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: lawyers and those supporters. Take a listening to Lisa van 338 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: Allen then eighteen Girl when she mates R Kelly. Lisa, 339 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: what happened when you got to Chicago? Initially, when I 340 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: got there, it, you know, being so young, it was 341 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: a bit exciting to travel to another city and to meet, 342 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, him and to hang out here his music 343 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: and things like that. But soon after that, you know, 344 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: that kind of died down because he asked me to 345 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: do a threesome with him, and the way he got 346 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: me to do it was he told me it never 347 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: had one before, and with me thinking that his girlfriend, 348 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: I felt, you know, kind of obligated to do that 349 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: for him if he had never had one before, and 350 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: he was a superstar, and you know what I mean, 351 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, girls are always throwing themselves at him, and 352 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: he's never had one before, so I'll just I'll go 353 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: ahead and do it, you know, for him. We had 354 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: the threesome, and after we had it, it just became 355 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: and just something that he always wanted to do, threesomes 356 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: with different girls. Then I would get very upset. I 357 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: cry more often than not. I cry about it, and 358 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: he would always try to give me like Pep talks 359 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: about how you know, it was just sex and it 360 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: didn't hold any emotion to him, and how a lot 361 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: of times he didn't know the girl's names, and you know, 362 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: if I could just do it and get it over with, 363 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: you know, so it would be a lot of trauma 364 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: involved for me because you know, it was something that 365 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: I didn't want to do, and I felt, you know, 366 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: that I had to do it for him, especially since 367 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: I had already done it, you know what I mean. 368 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: But you know, once I realized once we did it, 369 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: more than once, I realized it was a lie, but 370 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: I was already caught up into it, and I ended 371 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: up living there with him. You know, he was taking 372 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: care of me. You know, I didn't have my job 373 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: anymore at the mall, you know, so it kind of 374 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: was like I really didn't have a choice. When he 375 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: would try to give you as you refer to it 376 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: as pep talks, you told me that he would say 377 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: things like, if you love me, you wouldn't try to 378 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: change me. Yes, he would, Yes, he would say that, 379 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: And he says things that he would say that that's 380 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: what his mother told him. If a woman loves a man, 381 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: she won't try to change him. So I'm thinking to myself, well, 382 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: him and his mother would know better than me if 383 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: i'm you know, I'm yeah, I'm a child. What do 384 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: I know about what a wrong woman should do or 385 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: what you know to please a man? You know? So 386 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: I go off with what he told me, like, Okay, 387 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: well I guess he's right. At this time, you were seventeen, 388 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: and how old was he thirty one? Okay, I guess 389 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: that says it all right there, levite page climb online 390 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: dot Com. Explain to me how much time is he 391 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: looking at if he's convicted on accounts. I don't know 392 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: the exact amount of time, but I mean, there's so 393 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 1: many states here, Nancy, New York, Cook County, Chicago, Minnesota. 394 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: These are federal charges, Nancy, and his lawyer is trying 395 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: to get him out on bond. But the scary part 396 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: about that is some of the charges that he's currently 397 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: facing is remember when he went on trial back in 398 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight for that tape where he urinated 399 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: on a young woman in this sex tape, he was 400 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: acquitted of that. You mean the fourteen year old girl. Yeah, 401 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: remember in that case. Part of these charges is that 402 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: he was paying off people not to testify against him, 403 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: and that there were other tapes and he and his 404 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: associates were paying people large sums of money to get 405 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: these tapes back. And if he's released, he could be 406 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: scheming and plotting to pay people off in his current 407 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: trial to intimidate people. So that's a big reason why 408 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: he should not be out. Joyce Lytton a renowned defense 409 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: attorney joining me out of LA. What are the potential 410 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: sentences in these cases? So he's facing four prosecutions right now, 411 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: one state prosecution in Chicago, and Cook County. That means 412 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: it's the people of the state of Illinois against him. 413 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: And then in the other three prosecutions, he's facing federal 414 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: charges the United States government against him. For example, in 415 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: just one of the cases in Chicago, the federal case, 416 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: he's facing one hundred and four nine years. So when 417 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: you aggregate all these cases together, he's facing multiple life 418 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: terms in prison. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. R Kelly 419 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: has just been moved out of solitary confinement and into 420 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: gp general population, but prosecutors are fighting back against claims 421 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: by his defense team he was held in solitary against 422 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: his will. All the whining about life behind bars when 423 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, he's been holding women in his quote 424 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: compounds underage girls and molesting them. I Meancy Grace, this 425 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Take 426 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: a listen to what r Kelly's lawyer tells me. It's 427 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: hard for me to believe, mister Greenberg that all of 428 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: these women are I say, you've seen the Lifetime special 429 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: Surviving R Kelly, that they're all along and your client 430 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: is the only one telling the truth Sparkle. Sparkle told 431 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: her story back when mister Kelly was arrested and charged Aaron, 432 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: Illinois more than a decade ago, and the jury didn't 433 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: believe her. Then she's just retelling the same story that 434 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: no one believed. The young lady who she claimed was 435 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: in the video said it wasn't her. The young lady's 436 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: mother said it wasn't her. The young lady's father said 437 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't her. So, you know, I don't know why 438 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: everyone wants to believe Sparkle when when the people who 439 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: are supposedly closer to the situation all say she's not correct. Well, okay, 440 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: you know what, Let's move from Sparkle. Who Guy Sparkle 441 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: is the aunt of the fourteen year old girl in 442 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: the video. According to the indictment, the jury said they 443 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: could not determine that she was fourteen or who she 444 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: was with me today is Lisa Van Allen, who lived 445 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: with R. Kelly, who says she was picked out of 446 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: a group of women on a video shoot Strippers Grow Women. 447 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: He comes straight over to a skinny teen girl and says, 448 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 1: how old are you? Will your mom will let you 449 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: come to Chicago. She gets there and he immediately enlists 450 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: her for sex and a threesome. Now forget about sparkling 451 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: the incident of the fourteen year old girl in the 452 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: video who was having sex with R. Kelly and got 453 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: urinated on. Now I'm talking about Lisa van Allen, who's 454 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: with me right now. You were there, Lisa? What happened 455 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: when he asked you to have a threesome with an 456 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: underage girl? According to you all right? When he would 457 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: ask me, I have to sing some you know, I cry, 458 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: I get upset and he would say, I mean in 459 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: one with the young lady that we're speaking of from trial. 460 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: When I cried about that one, he got upset and said, 461 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: what am I going to do with this tape? What 462 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: can I do with this? How can I watch this 463 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: with you on here crying? You know? I mean he 464 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: really got upset that he couldn't watch that tape. Later 465 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 1: hit me, I mean, he caused this up. The pie piper? 466 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: Can can his lawyer explain that you know what the 467 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: pie piper is? The pipe piper is a man who 468 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: lawer's children away from their family. Do you do you, 469 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: Steve Greenberg, know what the pie piper is? I do? Okay, 470 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: what if you know what the pie piper is? What 471 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: I cannot explain people's nicknames, and that's not really you 472 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: don't have to. He doesn't have to explain it. I mean, 473 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 1: the evidence is there. I mean, go to Cook County Courthouse. 474 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: How many women have you paid off that were underage? 475 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: Do you pay off people when you're not guilty? I 476 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: think twelve? Do you do that when you're not guilty? 477 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: Or is that the right number? Steve? Steve, is that 478 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: the right number? There have been twelve young women with 479 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: whom he has reached civil settlements where he paid money 480 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,959 Speaker 1: to make their claim go away in civil courts Natcy 481 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: beyond saying that people settle civil cases for all sorts 482 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: of reasons, including the cost of litigation. Any settlement which 483 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: I have never seen are my understanding when people explain them, 484 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: are supposed to be confidential. And therefore I believe that 485 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: if I were, I was not involved in those cases, 486 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: if they just I wasn't a lawyer on it, and 487 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: if I say anything about it, I would be subject 488 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: to discipline from the courts here. So I'm not going 489 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: to let in that situation since Rob is not, Since 490 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: since he believed that Robert didn't do any of these things, 491 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: why don't they have Rob and all of us young 492 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: ladies do lie detective tests and a little brue. Who's 493 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: telling the truth and who's that I'm not saying in 494 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: the court of law, just perio, just recording? Well would 495 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: he agree to al detector? Steve Greenberg? Okay, everybody hold 496 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: with me? Is Lisa Van Allen, alleged victim of musical 497 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: superstar R Kelly who created I Believe I Can Fly 498 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: and Steve Greenberg, R Kelly's defense attorney. You've got Tiffany Hawkins, 499 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: who filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against Robert Kelly. 500 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: She says their relationship started when she was fifteen years 501 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: old and Kelly was twenty four. They settled four quarter 502 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: million dollars. Then you've got ept Epic records entering Tracy 503 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: Sampson in decent sex relationship when she was seventeen. That 504 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: was a settlement. Patricia Jones sued for impregnating her when 505 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: she was seventeen, and she says forcing her to get 506 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: an abortion, and they settled out of court. Martina Woods 507 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: seeking fifty grand over sex encounter in his recording studio 508 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: out of court, unknown settlement. Then there was the fourteen 509 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: counts of child porn he was found not guilty on that. 510 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: Then there was detailed allegations from parents claiming their daughter 511 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: being held in a cult. Okay, then you've got I'm 512 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: losing my voice. You're Honda Pace says she met Kelly 513 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: outside of his trial when she was fifteen, and he 514 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: started inviting her over and they started a sex relationship 515 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: that he would film the encounters. That ended, and there 516 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 1: was apparently a settlement. Kitty Jones, was thatte Martinez? Well, 517 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to run out of time naming 518 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: all these women. So none of those names ring a bell. 519 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: Steve Greenberg, Oh, they all ring a bell. But for example, 520 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: one of them you rattled off settled, you know, Sue, 521 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: because she was supposedly sexually assault in his studio and 522 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: she settled for fifty grand, And a fifty grand is 523 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: a nuisance painment. The cost of someone like like mister 524 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: Kelly going to litigation is extremely expensive. Well that's the 525 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: one where the number. I'm not a party of those agreements. 526 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: If they exist, I wouldn't know. I could tell you 527 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: that that if anyone's talking about them, and they do exist, 528 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: and they're breaching the agreements. So you've got people who 529 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, stay is not about the women preaching an agreement. 530 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: This is about the fact that R. Kelly has settled 531 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: with we believe twelve women at least for claims of 532 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: underage sex or sex harassment. But hold on, I want 533 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: to go back to something Lisa Van Allen said. Does 534 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: he call himself the pie pipe or do other people 535 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: call him that? He calls himself the pie piper on songs, 536 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: he'll say it's the pie Piper. Okay, Lisa, if you 537 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: could speak to R Kelly right now, what would you say. 538 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: I would say, stop hurting people. Stop hurting people. Why 539 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 1: does he feel the need. I mean, they say hurt people, 540 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: hurt people, but that doesn't have to be true. I've 541 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: been hurt well on multiple occasions, and I don't want 542 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: to hurt people. I'm here to help people. I would 543 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: tell him, get help and stop hurting people. Send those 544 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: girls home if they're not being held against their will, 545 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: let them don't see their family, Let them go and 546 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: then they'll come back if they're not being held against 547 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: their will. You know, I always said, I say it 548 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: was me before me too, because I came out before 549 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: any of these movements were out, you know, And nobody 550 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: was listening back in two thousand and eight, but now 551 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: we have a second chance to come back around. He 552 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: calls itself the pie Piper of R and B for 553 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: a reason. He tells us all of these names and 554 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: his songs for a reason. He came out with a's 555 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: ain't nothing but a number for a reason. We wait 556 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,479 Speaker 1: as justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,