1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. An absolutely gorgeous teen girl 2 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: is murdered, and today her mother tells us quote, I 3 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: just hate the holidays, especially Mother's Day. You're a mom, 4 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: but you're missing your child. That is a fate I 5 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: do not wish on anyone. We want answers. I Meancy Grace. 6 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 7 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Series eleven. First of all, 8 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Randisha Love was a seventeen 9 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: year old honor student and ROTC member at Westlake High School. 10 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: Shortly after she called her mother to say she made 11 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: it home from school that day, her mother and younger 12 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: brother found her dead in the front hallway of their 13 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: home near College Park. Caama was there the door kicked in, 14 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: any signs of favorite and truth? It wasn't in the song. 15 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: It was just everything looked just normal right now. I 16 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: really when I went in the house and saw my baby, 17 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: my mind just went completely blanked. You were hearing our 18 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: friends at Fox five, but you are also hearing Randish's mom, 19 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Qatara Ham, who is joining us right now. Miss Ham, 20 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: there are there are no words that I know of 21 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: and the English language to tell you how how much 22 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: I hate what you're going through. And I really appreciate 23 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: you being with us today because you know what, it's 24 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: just so easy in this world to read a headline 25 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: or hear a blurb online or on the radio when 26 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: you're in your car and you just chalk it off. 27 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: It's another statistic. Your girl is dead, someone murdered. You're 28 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: a girl, and she is not just a statistic. What 29 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: happened the day you came home. I came home. My 30 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: son got in the house before I did, and I 31 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: walked in the door, and I'm like, was the door unlocked? 32 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: And he was just had a blank stare. He was 33 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: like gifts. And I'm calling. I'm like, Randy Sha, Randy Sha, 34 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: because I'm like, you know, why was the door unlocked? 35 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: You know, you're here by yourself. And he looked at 36 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: me and he looked down and he looked at me 37 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: and he's like, mom, she's right here. And I looked 38 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: down and I just saw my baby in a pool 39 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: of blood. And it's something that I'll never ever ever forget. 40 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: When I close my eyes, I see her land there. 41 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: When I opened my eyes, I see her land there. 42 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: That's the It's not like nobody called me and said 43 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: we found her daughter. This said I saw everything for 44 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: myself and I saw you know, it's it's unimaginable on 45 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: just how I felt at that moment, a moment I 46 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: can't even explain how I feel right now. Um as 47 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: you just said, there's no words in the English dictionary 48 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: to explain my emotions and what I go through every 49 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: day and what I've been through for the past six years. 50 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: Is Randisha's mom, Miss him Katara Him. You can find 51 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: her online at Justice Justice for Randisha. The four is 52 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: a number, Justice for Randisha, and Cheryl McCollum is joining me. 53 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: Longtime friend and colleague. We grew up in the trenches 54 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: of inner city Atlanta fighting crime. She's now the founder 55 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl, you 56 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: have your two babies and I have mine. All of 57 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: them are about the age of Randisha. I think about 58 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: my little Lucy is about turn fifteen. This is about 59 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: the age of Randisha. Can you even imagine what Miss 60 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: Hamm has gone through? And it's really hard for me 61 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: to believe that this case is unsolved. That's total bs, 62 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: It's gut wrenching, and you know, Randisha is right in 63 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: the middle of Lucy and Caroline. So Caroline's a nighteen, 64 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: she's seventeen, and then you know Lucy's fifteen. You know out, 65 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: Miss Cheryl, I left John David the mix because he's 66 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: already six six. But these girls, Lucy, Caroline, Randisha, they 67 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: can't fight back the way a grown boy or a 68 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: grown man could. I mean, And clearly she's been caught unaware. 69 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: She's right there as you enter into the home and 70 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: the door was left unlocked when the pep left. Why 71 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: in the hay is this case unsolved? Why is miss 72 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: ham number one? She can't heal. She may never heal 73 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: even if she gets answers, because there's no such thing 74 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: as closure. Cheryl McCall, we know that. But she can't 75 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: even start to heal until the case is solved. But 76 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: let's talk about Randisha. She was not the child that 77 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: ran the streets. She didn't date gang members, she wasn't 78 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 1: using drugs. She was the kid that went, hey, mama, 79 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: mama consulting that you even put that out there, No 80 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: one thoughts, well, God do any of this? This is no, 81 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: But we gonna make it clear that and on finding 82 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: her own business in her own home, Nancy, she made 83 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: too do a home that day, what miss em. She 84 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: was doing homework, her her computer and paperwork was there. 85 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: She was doing homework when Dsha was a straight A student, 86 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: had been in had been since she was in elementary school. 87 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: She was at she was the perfect No, no about 88 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: its perfect. But she was my perfect daughter. You know. 89 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: That's what I say about the twins. They're practically perfect 90 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: in every way. That really got to me, Cheryl, because 91 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: last night when I went to that, I had to 92 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: get up super earlier this morning for thirty and when 93 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: I went to bed, I checked on the twins, of course, 94 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: and little Lucy John David was passed out. You know, 95 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: at whatever time ten thirty, Lucy was curled up in 96 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: a ball making notes, studying, studying, and she had three 97 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: bottles of white out in case she made a mistake. 98 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: She's that particular. She'll white it out and then fix 99 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: it in her own note and her own notes. I'm 100 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: just thinking about Rhodisha studying at the time this happened, 101 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: and Nancy. That's why I wanted to be clear for 102 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: everybody listening. We know her, but your audience needs to 103 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: know her. This was a child that was in Rotc. 104 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: She wanted to go to the Air Force. She was 105 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: a straight as student, but she also didn't miss school. 106 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: Now you talk about teenagers with a cell phone, that 107 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: child made two calls that day. One Mama, I'm on 108 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: the bus going to school. The next one was at 109 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: four thirty, Mama, I'm home. She didn't stay on the phone, 110 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: she didn't stay in the streets, she didn't stay doing stuff. 111 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: Didn't want to. This picture of Rhodsia. Lucy just took 112 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: a picture, fairy Sytlin of this. She's got a little 113 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: it looks like a little party dress, and she's got 114 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: on her little boots, and she's got on her shoulder strap, 115 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: and she's got her purse crossways across her body like 116 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: you're supposed to wear them. I can tell her hair 117 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: has just been done and she's got the biggest smile. 118 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: She was gone to the Rotc ball. I'm just imagining. 119 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: You know, I trapes, and you know how much I 120 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: hate to shop share on more than anything, but I 121 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: will trapes all over them, all in complete agony, helping 122 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: my daughter find the dress to wear to whatever it is. 123 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: I wonder how long? How long did your girl look 124 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: for this dress because she's just she loved to shop. 125 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: So we're probably in every store and she I think 126 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: we I forgot what we finally found in it, but 127 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: what we what? We were in every store because she 128 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: loved she loved to shop. And that's one of the 129 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: things that's so hurtful as well, because I literally went 130 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: from planning when Dish Junior prom to planning her funeral 131 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: her and I was, I'm sorry, we were getting ready 132 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: to look for her problem dread and I went from 133 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: planning her prom to planning her funeral. And that's the 134 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: worst thing a mother could ever go through. It to 135 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: plan barrier your child. I literally was, we were literally 136 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: about to go problem shopping, and it it hurts so 137 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: bad because as you can see, she's just such a 138 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: stylish kid. And I swear you know, she knew every 139 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: pain that I had, and she's like, Mama, need this. 140 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: I neat that I need this, and I was getting 141 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: for because she's my only girl, and I just I'm 142 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: so broken right now. So where I don't know up 143 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: from downside to side. I don't know which way to turn. 144 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: And I looked at her pictures that make me smile, 145 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: but it also make me quiet because I'd never see 146 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: her face on this side of earth again. And when 147 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: Disha also like to sinking the choir, she was on 148 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: a dance crase team. She was, I mean, she was 149 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: a sweetheart. Where did she sing in the choir at 150 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: our church, which is what Great and New Hope Baptist 151 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: Church in Atlanta, Georgia. I know exactly where that is. 152 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, you know what you just said. It 153 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: really struck a chord in me, Miss Hamm, because you 154 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: said we were getting ready to get to the prom. 155 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: Can I tell you, for instance, when I drag the 156 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: twins through a merit badge at Scout, I feel like 157 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: I should get the merit badge, like when they get ready, 158 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: when they, oh my goodness, Miss Hamm, when they went 159 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: to their Valentine's party, John David didn't care what he 160 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: but Lucy, oh my goodness. By the time we got 161 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: her ready in her dress and all the hair and 162 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: the shoes, I wanted to go to the party myself. 163 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: I feel like I was the one all dressed up 164 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: and all fixed up, and I just sat in the 165 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: parking lot and watched and walk in and I just 166 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: wanted them to have the best time, and I feel 167 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: like what you just said we were getting ready for 168 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: her prom. I mean you were so close to her. 169 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: And another thing, you said that she would know when 170 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: you would have a payday, and there you were working 171 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: hard so she could have all these things that I 172 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: now know that girls want all sorts of things, and 173 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: I know you didn't want her to have to worry. 174 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: Can I get a dress from the prom? Can I 175 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: get this cute outfit? Because you were breaking your back 176 00:11:54,000 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: working to advance her. I'm just curious. You mentioned the 177 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: door was unlocked. Yes, it was closed, but it was 178 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: it was unlocked because my son was able to walk 179 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: right in. I saw when he walked in, but I 180 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: was thinking that maybe she had come and unlocked the 181 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: door for him, as she usually do, so I didn't. 182 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know it when we pulled up to the 183 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: house that was meting out of the ordinary that would 184 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: make me think that I was about to walk in 185 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: and see what I saw. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 186 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: for those of you just joining us, this beautiful young 187 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: girl straight a shooting. You know how hard that is 188 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: to do straight a's from beginning to end and to 189 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: be in the air force. This girl's singing in the 190 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: choir on the praise team, I mean, just scrubbed in sunshine. 191 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: Why is she dead? Why is her mother on Crime 192 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace crying? Why hasn't this case been solved? 193 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: With all these clues and we got nothing? Let me 194 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: go to Dave Mac joining me Crime online dot Com 195 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Dave Mac, you better tell me something. What happened? 196 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: You said? We have all these clues. Here's what we have. 197 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: We know that she arrived home around four thirty in 198 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: the afternoon. Good start, good start. You know how I 199 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: like to start with the timeline home from school. Everything's fine. 200 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: How do I know she got Oh she called her 201 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: mom and said I'm home right, and we can track 202 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: the time and the location home from school four thirty. 203 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: Did she ride the bus, Miss Sham, Yes, ma'am, she 204 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: roll okay, So we have evidence of that. And I'd 205 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: be curious if anybody got off that day a mail 206 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: because this is obviously a mail crime. I'm curious if 207 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: anybody got off the bus at that stop that didn't 208 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: normally get off the bus at that stop. And I'm 209 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: curious as to who else got off the bus normally 210 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: with her and would have seen her walking home. Just 211 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: throwing it out there. Okay, back to you, Dave Mac. Okay, 212 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: she gets off the bus, she goes home. Now we 213 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: know that she got home because she calls her mom says, 214 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm home. Everything's okay, called it now, miss miss Hammu. Routinely, 215 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: your soop is to keep the windows and doors locked, 216 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: especially when you're home. Correct. Yeah, so you knew right 217 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: off the bat. If I saw my children go on 218 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: the back door without unlocking it, I would say don't 219 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: don't go in because that's not right. Okay, got it? Okay, 220 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: Dave Max, sorry about that, So go ahead. Four thirty 221 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: All right, Randysha is home. She is okay, called mom. Now. 222 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: Mom gets off work and goes to pick up her. 223 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: Randisha's younger brother playing basketball. The little boy. How old 224 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: is he, miss Sam? He was fourteen at the time. Okay, 225 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: he's playing basketball where he was in He was in 226 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: middle school. So he's at his middle school. Yes, and 227 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: you get home with your son. At what time we 228 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: got there? Because I got off work about seven thirty 229 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: eight is we got there? I want to say about 230 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: nine thirty nine forty five. That's about the time we 231 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: got there, because we stopped by and got full and 232 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: when I went and picked him up because he was 233 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: on the other side of the town. So yeah, we 234 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: got that bout nine thirty nine forty five year and 235 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: that traffic really gets bad around that time. Right, seven 236 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: seven thirty is still stopped up from the five five 237 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: o'clock rush. Okay, so in the space but five hours, 238 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: what Cheryl, for your timeline, she called about seven forty 239 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: and didn't get an answer from Rhandicia, Right, So the 240 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: timeline is a little closer. That's important, Cheryl, because behavioral evidence, 241 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: Miss Ham. I mean, if your daughter, and I'm sure 242 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: she had her phone attached to her person the way 243 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: my twins do, she's not gonna get far from her phone. 244 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: You called it seven forty and she didn't pick up. 245 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: Did she ever? Was that normal for her not to 246 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: pick the phone up. My son picks it up on 247 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: the first ring. My daughter never picks it up for anybody. 248 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: It was not normal. I was calling her as soon 249 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: as I got off work. It was it was not 250 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: normal for her not to pick up. Maybe I called 251 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: and she's listening to music, but it ruined. Wasn't normal 252 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: for her not to pick up when I called, So 253 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: I was just thinking to myself, well, maybe she just 254 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: listening to music and can't hear the line ringing, because 255 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: she would I always have her earphonees in, so you know, 256 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: I was thinking. But I thoughted to call her and 257 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: she she never ever ever picked up. I was kind 258 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: of worried, but I didn't think that I will walk 259 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: in again and find what I found. You know, that's 260 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: really important, Miss Hamm, because to narrow down the timeline, 261 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: which is crucial in a case like this, that is significant, 262 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: you know how, Doctor Angie with me, Doctor Angela Arnold 263 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: RONOWND Psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at 264 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie, like I just said, 265 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: this is critical to the case. For instance, I called 266 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: John DAVIDY picks up on the first ring. I'll call Lucy. Never, 267 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: for anyone, never picks your phone up. If I want 268 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: to talk to Lucy, I had to call John David 269 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: and give the phone to Lucy. And I don't worry 270 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: when Lucy doesn't pick up the phone, because that's her standard. 271 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: I pray that's just exactly She's not really glued to 272 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: her phone as much as him. So that's where we're 273 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: going to put the timeline at seven forty. Why is 274 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: behavioral evidence so crucial? And don't you agree, doctor Angie, 275 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: that a routine behavior is just as powerful in my 276 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: mind is a fingerprint. It identifies you and helps me 277 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: save the case. Oh heavens yes, Nancy. And we all 278 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: have our We all have our habits that we do, 279 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: and like you said, we can identify different people by 280 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: their habits. There are some people that I can text 281 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: and Nancy, I don't even take a sense that they 282 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: don't text me back because they never text me back. Okay, 283 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: I know who you're talking about, and I don't care. No, 284 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: it's somebody else. Okay, give me an example, doctor Angie. 285 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: What's one thing you do that never deviates? One thing, Oh, 286 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: my goodness, one thing that I do that never deviates. 287 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: It shouldn't really be that hard. I've got one right 288 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: off the top of my head. Cheryl McCollum. I never 289 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: go to bed without looking at the twins first. I 290 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: never even go to the kitchen in the morning. The 291 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: first thing I do when I wake up is look 292 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: at the twins to just see that they're asleep in 293 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: bed and then check on my mom, never ever deviates. 294 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: Do you feel comfortable in setting the timeline that her 295 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: death attack occurred between four thirty and seven forty? Absolutely? 296 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: I think it's closer to five. But yes, absolutely, I 297 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: think it was shortly after she called me two whoa Okay, 298 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: she called you at four thirty? Why do you think that, 299 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: Miss hamp I just think whoever did it? I think 300 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: it was somebody that kind of noon our timeline. Can 301 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: I jo be in Nancy? Have I ever been able 302 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: to stop you? No? But here's the reason I think 303 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: it was quick. Everything had to line up perfect for 304 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: this to occur. Somebody had to know. Number One, the 305 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: grandparents weren't home. They were always home, all right, they 306 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: weren't home this day. Well, the grandparents lived there in 307 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: the home. They lived with her grandparents. Oh my goodness. 308 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: See that's huge. So where were the grandparents? They were 309 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: at at a funeral, right, Okay? You know. Doctor Tim 310 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: Gallagher joining me medical examiner for the entire State of 311 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: Florida at pathcaremed dot com, and he is the founder 312 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: and host on the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. 313 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher helped me how can I narrow down the 314 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: TDA time of death? Well, Nancy, you know that's always 315 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: a question that we're asked in court, and you know 316 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: typically the stock answer is, you know, the time of 317 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: death occurs at when the last time you saw her 318 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: alive until she was discovered disease. But that doesn't sound well. 319 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: I mean I know that much without a medical degree, 320 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: so you're right down to but help me. There are 321 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: scientific ways to discover this. We examine the temperature of 322 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: the body, so we know that the body will lose 323 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: one degree of temperature for every hour that is deceased. 324 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: We look for rigor, which is stiffening of the body, 325 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: so we know that the body will begin to stiff, stiffen, 326 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: or go into rigor about one hour to one and 327 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: a half hours after the body is deceased, and then 328 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: it'll come out of rigor at about thirty six to 329 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: forty eight hours, So we can use that to help 330 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: with our timeline in cases of extreme come out of 331 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: rigor thirty six to forty eight hours after Yeah, okay, 332 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: got it. I'm riding as fast as I can. Go ahead, 333 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: and then for bodies who are exposed to the elements 334 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: such as a house with windows and doors open, it 335 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: attracts different types of insects, you know, which start to 336 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: occupy the body and Dot de Gallagher, You're not upsetting 337 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: me in the least because I'm very familiar, thanks to you, 338 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: in large part with forensic etymology. However, our victim's mom 339 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: may not necessarily want to hear that analysis. I believe 340 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: since the cecard January twelve, that the windows and doors 341 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: would have been shut, and how it gets really cold 342 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: and that neck of the woods. I want to circle 343 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: back to Cheryl, what were you saying and you heard 344 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: what doctor Gallagher is telling us, what would you expect 345 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: to find if the time of death, doctor Gallagher was 346 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: shortly after that four thirty pm phone call. Well, yeah, 347 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: there's another way we can approximate the time of death 348 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 1: as well. You know she was indicating that she was 349 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: found in a pool of blood. Well, the blood is 350 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: composed of liquid and solid elements. Over the course of time, 351 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: the solid elements will start to separate from the liquid elements, 352 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: and then there is a time land that we can 353 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: verify using that technique to see the separation of the 354 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: solid parts of the blood and the liquid parts of 355 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: the blood. As it lays there at the crime scene. 356 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: So we have the body temperature, we have the rigor, 357 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: and then we have the separation of the blood on 358 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: the floor of the crime scene. That's a very good 359 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: indicator on how we could approximate the time of death. 360 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: He just taught me something new, doctor Gallagher, about the 361 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: separation of the solid parts of the blood versus the 362 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: liquid parts of the blood. Dave mac lightning round. Yes, No, 363 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: was anything taken from the home there a four centry? 364 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: Was there a sex attack? No? Do we know if 365 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: anything had been taken offer person. We know that her 366 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: cell phone was taken. Joining me right now, twenty seven 367 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: years Metro major case, former Swat now lawyer with the 368 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: shell Nut Law firm, James shell Nut. No fourth centry. 369 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: I believe entry through the front door. No robbery, no barglary, 370 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: no sex attack. The only thing taken with cell phone, 371 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: very probitive, shall not Who would want her cell phone? Well, 372 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: somebody who didn't want her to call police or call 373 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: for help. You know you're right. The theory of a 374 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: burglary is out the window. Its outside the normal time 375 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: zone of a burglary ten to three. It's in the 376 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: evening hours, no forced entering, nothing taken. This is someone 377 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: that she knew her habit and routine, as you said, 378 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: which is powerful or saw her go in. Yeah, yeah, 379 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: her having routine was to keep the doors locked. This 380 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: is someone that she was familiar with enough to open 381 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: the door and to allow them to either enter the 382 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: home or at least stand in a question of proximity 383 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: to enter the home. This is not a stranger. This 384 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: is someone she knew. The motive of that person I 385 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if it was a personal 386 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: problem that they had with her. I don't know if 387 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: they actually came there to rob her. This was a 388 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: short time after Christmas. But I will tell you this, 389 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: it's not a stranger, and it's someone that lives close by. 390 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: And it's someone that's young. You know, Miss Ham with 391 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: me is Qatar Ham. This is Randish's mom. Something had 392 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: changed in your life, you and your family. And of 393 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: course she's got three brothers, one already in college. As 394 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: I understand the facts, had just moved in with the 395 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: grandparents in College Park, never had a break in anything 396 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: else elsewhere, and now you move there in Bam and 397 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: I and it makes me take the day that I 398 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: ever moved to College Park. To this day, six years later, 399 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: I cannot go to College Park. I don't go to 400 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: College Park at all for anything. If I but my 401 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: cousin just had a birthday party there, I cannot go. 402 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: I don't go. Eat my body just shupers. I can't. 403 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: I hate the day that I ever moved there. But 404 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: I had to move at the time because I was 405 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: sending my first son off to college, and I was 406 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: sending one son to Los Angeles. He was trying to 407 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: do um acting. So it was it was just the 408 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: move I had to make as a mom to kind 409 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: of do what I had to do so that me 410 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: and my kids will be okay. Never did I ever 411 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: think moving there would I lose one of my kids. 412 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: I just because my kids were good kids. All my kids, 413 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: like you know, the one son that went to college, 414 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: he went on to graduate college. The other one he's 415 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: he's in college right now, and one is the youngest one, 416 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: he's getting ready to go. So if I don't have 417 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: any kids that were in the street, a part of gangs, 418 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: a part of you know this that um. I've been 419 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: a baseball, basketball, football mom my whole life and Randy 420 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: was was with me all the time she was she 421 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: was there there. She didn't necessarily cheer, but she was 422 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: was their cheerleader, and it was always her and I, 423 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: her and I, her and I and um. She used 424 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: to make sure, like I said, I got out work late, 425 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: so she wasn't She was next to the oldest, but 426 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: she would make sure everybody had had eight and everything 427 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: when I got home from working. I mean, she was 428 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: just a sweetheart. But I do agree that I believe 429 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: that it was somebody that she knew. And that's the 430 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: part that scares me. I think it may have been 431 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: somebody in the neighborhood. Have you thought about that Shaw McCollum, 432 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: someone that would see her. You know, we know from 433 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,959 Speaker 1: experience variance people covet what they see. Yes, I believe 434 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: she opened the door to this person that she may 435 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: have had a passing familiarity with, like, Hey, I'm Joe 436 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: from down the street. Remember me, Can I come in 437 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: and use the phone? Or whatever excuse is used. Well, 438 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: let's talk about what else Joe would know. Joe would 439 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: know the grandparents were out of town. Joe wouldn't know 440 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: the brother had a ball game. He would know Mom 441 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: worked until seven thirty. At least he also knew that 442 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: in this time of day, nobody's out, of course in January, 443 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: cutting their grass, nobody's moving trash cans, and nobody's walking 444 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: a dog. Kids aren't out riding a bike. The timing 445 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: was too impeccable for somebody not to know this family's routine. Well, 446 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: another thing to miss him. This is a rendicious mom, 447 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: Miss Haim. Did the grandparents I take it they're your parents. Yes. 448 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: Did they drive a car, Yes, they drove the car 449 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: my mom car had been and that's that was what 450 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: my dad. That was what my dad was saying. My 451 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: mom car had been sitting there. So whomever kind of 452 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: knew somebody the cars are gone, all the cars. Yes, 453 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: so they they knew the cars, and they knew whoever. 454 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: They knew our routine, and they rather they knew me 455 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: and my family or just knew her. It was somebody 456 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: that she knew and somebody that was from that area, 457 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: from that neighborhood. I'm just saying, I think they're from 458 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: the neighborhood because they may very well have known this 459 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: mom works at least thirteen hours shifts at the hospital. 460 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: Help me out share what would call them. Why with 461 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: everything that we're figuring out right here, is the case 462 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: not solved. I find it really hard to believe there 463 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: are no fingerprints on that door. There are fingerprints, and 464 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: I believe they need to resubmit them. I believe that 465 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: this person could have been a juvenile at the time, 466 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: so their prints were not in apist, but they need 467 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 1: to be resubmitted. They may be there now. The mode 468 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 1: of death, Cheryl Sheet was shot multiple times around the 469 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: torso in the face, as I understand the facts. Is 470 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: that correct? That is absolutely correct? Five times? What weapon? 471 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: It was a handgun? And all they've really released is 472 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: that it was you know, copper yellow bullets that was 473 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: retrieved from her body. What did you say? The only 474 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: thing that please have released is that in the autopsy 475 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: they recovered copper yellow bullets from her body. You know. 476 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: James Shelnut joining me twenty seven years after a major case. Now, lawyer, 477 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: we have a ballistics database. Help me out if that 478 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: gun has ever been used and another offense, it will 479 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: show up. We do have a ballistics database, and a 480 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: ballistics database is excellent. If that weapon has fired another 481 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: round that's been recovered during the commission of a crime. 482 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: Then at that point you'll have another round to compare 483 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: it to the rounds that was pulled out of the 484 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: victim's body. In this case, however, if that gun has 485 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: not been used in the commission of a crime and 486 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: a round was not recovered, then there would be no 487 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: match to connect it to crime stories with Nancy Grace 488 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner joining us out of Florida. 489 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: You're very familiar with the ballistics database. Explain why one gun? Well, 490 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: it's like a fingerprint leaves a marking on bullets. It's 491 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: a mistake. You can't mistake it. But that is correct, Nancy. 492 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: So the database is called NIBIN. And don't ask me 493 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: what those initials mean. So Antegraded Ballistic Information Network. Okay, 494 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: When a bullet leaves the muzzle of a gun, it 495 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: scrapes along the side of the muzzle of the inside 496 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: of the portion of the gun, and the bullet picks 497 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: up little scratches and grooves. So a bullet fired from 498 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: the same gun will have the exact same scratches and 499 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: grooves on it. Then that bullet can be photographed and 500 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: identified through NIBAN. And if another bullet comes from a 501 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: crime scene that has the same exact scratches and grooves 502 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: on it. Then we can, with very good accuracy, determined 503 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: that the same gun was used for both firings. So 504 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: we're looking microscopically at the bullets. We're looking for unique 505 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: identification marks on the bullets that we can trace back 506 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: to an individual gun, and then we can assume that 507 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: that gun was used in a commission of those two firings. Guys, 508 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut twelve, our friends at 509 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: Fox five. Missus Ham tells me she believes it's so 510 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: when her daughter knew because there was no force entry, 511 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: nothing was taken, and there was no assault. She loved 512 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: to smile, She loved church, she loves singing the choir, 513 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: She loved dancing. Math was one of her favorite subjects. 514 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: She was a straight A student on the principal's list. 515 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: Not a day goes by that, she tells me, she 516 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: doesn't think about her daughter. I'm asking you, I'm begging you, 517 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm pleading for you, So please please please come forward 518 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: and listen to more from our friends at Fox five. 519 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: This is Portshi Bruner and our cut nine. He's appealing 520 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: to juniors and seniors at Westlake High School to come 521 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: forward with anything they may recall about the day Randisha 522 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: was brutally murdered shortly after she got off the school bus. 523 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: Were their witnesses day believe that she was seeing alive 524 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: was getting off the school bus into the neighborhood. So 525 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: we feel that somebody either on a bus or at 526 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: the school me have heard something or heard rumors, or 527 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: maybe there was altercation on the bus or at school 528 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 1: that day. You know, I don't understand something to Miss Ham, 529 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: Miss Guitar Ham. This is Randisia's mom joining us. Why 530 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: are we having to discuss following up on rumors at school? 531 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: What are the police doing? I do frequently talked to 532 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: m the detective. They're still working on her case. But 533 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: it's because Olber I believe did it went in and 534 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: went out. I believe the kids at the kids at 535 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: the school. I just believe the kids in the neighborhood. 536 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: I just think they were all scared to talk. So 537 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: nobody is like to me, this is just what I think. 538 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: It's no hard everybody, Okay, I got some questions for you, 539 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: Miss Ham. Do you know if the cp PD calls 540 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: part police have downloaded everything from the iCloud. They don't 541 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: have her phone, but did they download her checks, her 542 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: cell calls? And most important, I want to know if 543 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: she took a picture of this person. It's only so 544 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: much that they're telling me, but I know Apple wasn't 545 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: really really when it comes to the certain things, Apple, 546 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: they really wasn't working with us. Was trying to get 547 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: things they don't have to work. Apple doesn't have to 548 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: work with the police. That's why we have subpoena. Ducastickam 549 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: you hit it then with a subpoena and they have 550 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: to turn it over. Here's my question, Cheryl McCollum. Number one, 551 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: surveillance video in the neighborhood three years ago. There's ring doorbells. 552 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: There's all sorts of video possibilities in that area, specifically 553 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: Charyl McCollum. There are red light hams, there are business cams. 554 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: There's all sorts of cams going on Number one? Has 555 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: that been obtained? Number two? Did they canvass the neighborhood 556 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: door to door? Number three? Were there any defensive wounds? 557 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: Did she fight back? Did she scratch? Were there marks 558 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 1: on her hands or arms? How's the iPhone information been downloaded? 559 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: Have the bullets been sent to NIBIM. What do we 560 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: know about the fingerprints? Have they been submitted? Has any 561 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: DNA been taken off her body? I know there wasn't 562 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: a sex attack, but did he touch her in any 563 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: way that could have left epiphilial DNA on her body? 564 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: Those are the things I want to know. Nibin was 565 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: going to be my first thing, and to resubmit the 566 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: fingerprints to APIs. Those two things need to be done immediately. 567 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: Well what do we have to do lay all the 568 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: courthouse steps to get them done? Well? I think maybe 569 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: a phone call to the detective along with miss Ham 570 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: would be appropriate. This is James jump In. I can't 571 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: imagine it's that hard to develop a suspect in this case. 572 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: Amo Scala one to ten. This is not a ten, 573 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: This is a five or six. You know, you know 574 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: that this person you already have a profile of who 575 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: this person is. You know it's probably a younger person. 576 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: You know, this is a person that lived nearby. Don't 577 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: just focus your efforts on the school, focus your efforts 578 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: on any jun younger I would say under fifty. I 579 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: don't put it past a forty year old man to 580 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: go on that home. But the fact that the cell 581 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: phone had been taken does, in my mind indicate a 582 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: youthful offender. And Cheryl McCollum, you know how many times 583 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: I have been in the public schools in College Park 584 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: looking for defendants and witnesses, and there's no shortage of 585 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: guns in the school there. You go. Absolutely, but you 586 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: know there's somebody that got gooes after this happened. There's 587 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: somebody that's been drinking themselves to death over this. There 588 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,439 Speaker 1: is clear indicators of who this perpetrator is. They need 589 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: to go back, they need to canvas, they need to 590 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: start from ground zero. And I agree with the other 591 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: experts that this is somebody in my opinion that is 592 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: closer to fifteen to seventeen. The person who did this 593 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: talk to somebody at some Absolutely, I wonder if they 594 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: even did a find my iPhone, to find the iPhone 595 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: immediately following the death we did whoever phone, how they 596 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: immediately shut it off like when you when I was 597 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: trying to call, it was going directly to voice mail, 598 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: so it was it was, it was shut out. So 599 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: I believe whoever got her, I believe they destroyed her 600 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: phone whenever they left or whenever they got it. I 601 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: believe they destroyed it because it never it just went 602 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: straight to voicemail, as if it was like turned off. 603 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: They turned it off. But you did try find my iPhone. 604 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: We did try find my ted find my iPhone. I 605 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: kept trying. I even tried it years later because I 606 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 1: kept the phone on for a while and Um, I 607 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: tried find that phone never been anywhere, Miss Ham. Do 608 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: you ever feel that Randisha is trying to reach out 609 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: to you? I do. I had a dream, um. It 610 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: was crazy. I posted on my personal Facebook page, which 611 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: is my name because Ira Ampum. I posted it was 612 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: I was out and I was with a group of 613 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: people and nobody's fall her but me, and she was 614 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,800 Speaker 1: trying to tell me something. I believe she was trying 615 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: to just tell me. I just couldn't grasp what she 616 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: was trying to tell me. I was so happy to 617 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: see her. I couldn't grasp what she was trying to 618 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: tell me. And I believe that she is trying to 619 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: to tell me, and I just want to I just 620 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: know if I just don't know if I if I'm 621 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: knowing how to grasp it or how to take it 622 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: in or or what. But I that was that was 623 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: the weirdest dream that I've had since she's been gone, 624 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: and this was just a few nights ago. Miss Sam. 625 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: How is this affected Randy SHA's brothers, my youngest son Um? 626 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: And it makes me cry because it's the one that 627 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: for her. He's all of them are very much affected. 628 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: All of them are, but my youngest son Um Hen 629 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: I both like, he don't really sleep. Um is we 630 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: just we're are all just soul. I can't explain it. 631 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: There it's made us closer as mother and son. But 632 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: you know, my youngest son, I really can't explain it. 633 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: But it has affected him so much to where you 634 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: know him, Like I say, he don't really sleep at night. 635 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting about that too, Doctor Angie 636 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: Arnold's psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta, I saw sometimes 637 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: I say, I don't think I've had a good night's 638 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: sleep since my fiancee was murdered. It just changes everything. 639 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: Why why can't people sleep after they go through something 640 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: like this? Well, Nancy, people can't sleep because unfortunately there's 641 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: so much on their mind that they that they can't 642 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: make right now. I want to let I want to 643 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: let you know that there are has have you had 644 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: Have you all gotten any kind of psychiatric help for 645 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: this tread that your family is going through, because there 646 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: are some things that can be done for you, aside 647 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: from medications that can help y'all to get to sleep 648 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: at night. You know what I'm gonna do, Doctor Angie. 649 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna hook you and Miss Hamm up after our program. 650 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: Thank you and doctor Angie. Doctor Angie, I really really 651 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: appreciate you speaking to her, Miss Haim. What were the 652 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 1: last words Randysha said to you? I love you, Love 653 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: you mommy, And then that there is a two thousand 654 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: dollar reward for information and Randysha love this team. Girls. 655 00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: Brutal Murder. The tipline is four zero four six one 656 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: three six five two nine repeat four zero four six 657 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: one three six five two nine. Please help us solve 658 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: this case. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off, Goodbye th