WEBVTT - Inside Steph's all-women group chat 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.680 Today is International Women's Day. It is a day across 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.440 media organizations, publications talking about women, celebrating women, all the 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.080 great things about women. So I decided to bring together 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.960 some of my favorite women my actual group chat come 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.680 to life. I'm Stephanie Rule, MSNBC anchor, NBC News Senior correspondent, 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.120 and this is Modern Rules, a podcast from NBC Think 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:34.000 and I heart Radio, and I just want to introduce 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.720 everyone to start. Hillary Rosen one of the most extraordinary 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.920 voices of influence in crisis management pr as well as 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.519 a CNN contributor Amanda Kats who was most recently with 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.560 CNN in their investigations team. She is currently the author 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.080 of an intriguing substack known as The Interpreter. I highly 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:57.000 recommend it. Tammy had Dad, veteran TV superstar from both 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.120 CNN and NBC. She is now a media consultant, and 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.360 Caris Wisha, host of not one but two podcasts, Sway 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.440 and Pivot. Thank you all so much for being here. 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.720 You are my group chat. I as a rule do 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.480 not have group chats. I find them to be too risky, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.160 too dangerous, because I don't necessarily trust or no everyone 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.800 on it. As Heidi Cruz learned from hers, But I 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.440 want to talk to you all about how important it 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.880 is in life as women, professional women to have sort 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.120 of this not official women's network, but to have real 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.720 women friends. Hillary, I turned to you first. I mean, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.200 I think it's in a in a way, it's everything 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.360 right because, particularly this past year, I've noticed that Amanda's 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.720 actually written about this. I noticed that there's so many 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.760 moments where, you know, I lived inside my head because 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.480 I was isolated and I wasn't in my regular life, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:58.280 and having the outlet of you know, the five of 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.600 you to to talk to on the phone, on you know, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.920 on chat it, I actually don't know that I could 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.160 have gotten through this year without you guys. Um that 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.720 just amplifies everything that I've experienced in my professional life. 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.440 This year was sort of the culmination of that, Amanda. 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.960 When we hear people talk about girlfriends, they often think 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.919 like a coffee clutch, a mom's group, gossiping. But how 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.240 much of an impact does it have on your life 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:30.200 professionally to have this group of brutally honest women who 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.440 also love and care about your success professionally. That's a 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.720 good question. I think that you guys actually are kinder 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:38.800 than you are, brutally honest, I don't feel like the 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.320 function of the group chat is to, like, you know, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.840 truly call you out, except when it comes to my 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.880 love life. Your guys are all brutally to me. It's 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.840 been very, very welcome. I mean, as as Hillary was 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:52.960 just saying, this has been a really challenging year, I 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.000 think in terms of lack of access to friends. For me, 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.000 I compounded that by moving to a new city right 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.120 at the start of the pandem make I also have 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.200 a small baby. Last summer, I left my job that 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.880 I've been in for several years, and the combination of 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.640 those things has made it more important than ever to 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.520 have these kinds of connections. You know, I will say, like, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:14.520 when I hear the word girlfriends, of course, you know, 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.760 I think of something a little more romantic, just because 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.519 of where I'm coming from, and you know, my other 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:23.120 group chats are pretty co ed. Actually, this is I 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.000 think the only one that I can think of that's 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.200 all women. But there's something about women who are really 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.000 looking out for each other and have each other's best 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.240 interests at heart, and also have a sense of humor, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.280 also are there to debate and discuss and gossip and 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.840 can move from the light to the serious seamlessly. I 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.440 think that is such an important thing right now, and 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.600 especially when I'm not seeing those people in person, as 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.400 I haven't for the last year, you know, with a 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.720 few exceptions, it's felt really critical to have that outlet 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.440 Tammy talk about what a change we've seen. Think about 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.400 the beginning of your career. I remember, for me, when 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.080 I started in investment banking, there was no women's mafia. 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.880 In fact, there were so few women. It was much 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.080 more like I had to scratch and climb my way here. 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.320 You know, good luck you you find your way on 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.880 your own. It has changed so much at this point 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.839 that if you're not a woman who stands with other women, 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.680 you're the outsider. Yeah, I do think that's changed. And 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.960 just even having that many women in the room. But 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.760 you know, this is all very lofty talk. I miss 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.440 seeing all of you and the horrified look on your 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.279 face when we talk about someone or something. This is 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.520 so great that we can see each other, Stephanie, because 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.680 this is what we're missing in real life, Like did 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.000 that person actually do that? Did this person that I've 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.840 worked with for twenty years actually say that McCall has 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:50.360 everyone gone crazy? Has this pandemic really tipped us over? 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.720 And it's such a reminder that just being able to 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.839 tell your friends about it and bounce it off them 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.760 and think about things a different way. You know, I 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.800 think people are interested in other opinions and look at 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.120 all of us here, even though you guys are usually 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:09.480 wrong and I am right, sure, okay, whatever. I just 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.719 like the visceral sharing of all the good and all 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.800 the bad, and to be able to run things by 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.640 my friends to make sure I haven't gone start breading 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.960 man care For someone who doesn't know you, they might 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:26.280 not know that you have an informal women's network, a 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.000 mafia behind you that stands behind you, that talks you 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.360 through things. I mean, you're a very outspoken, independent person, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.880 and I'm not sure an outsider would know. You've got 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.720 a group chat chatting you up every day. Yes, I do, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:40.960 but I have a lot of group chats that you 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:47.200 don't know about, and they're started. I actually do. I 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.840 have very different group chats for different things, and so um, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.520 I think it's important to have to. I have it. 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.680 Like when something happens and you want a quick reaction, 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.520 depending so I'm really interested in this idea of how 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.360 through the pandemic, like this idea of what will stick 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.560 and what won't. But this idea of reaching out to 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.559 people that is an analog which has been happening past 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.760 two decades. But where does it evolve too? So you 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.520 see like the Clubhouse, which is I think I'm trying 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.840 to figure out what's right about it. And actually this 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.640 idea of being alone and then being able to reach 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:18.919 out and just listen to people talk. It's not unlike 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.760 talk radio, it's not unlike group chats or something like 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.200 that is a really interesting one. And so I think 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.719 text plays into that because you can do them quickly. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.080 It's not Twitter, where you just have nine people responding 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.520 to you. But I don't I don't think that's what 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.039 this is. I mean, all of that's performative. You don't 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.200 below Clubhouse and people on most of it on Twitter, 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.960 they're all they're all speaking to an audience that they're 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.640 not selecting, that they're you know, they're trying to present 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.560 themselves to the world. And I do think despite Kara's 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.640 desperate desire never to need anyone or demonstrate that no 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.400 person that she's talking to is the most important person 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.960 in her life, which is why she dishes us even 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.120 into our face. The group shout that we have and 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.719 you know, we obviously all have other friends, but there's 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:09.200 something about dear friends and take who will call you 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.440 on your who will hold up a mirror while they 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.200 still are the most supportive people in the world and 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.320 rooting for your success. And I think that you hear 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.640 it differently, like we're all, you know, public people, and 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.120 we're all subject to criticism, and I think when you 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:31.880 hear critique and engagement from somebody really trust, like I 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.560 trust you, guys. I listened to it differently, and I 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:39.120 think that that's a hallmark really of kind of the connection. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.440 What's funny that we should tell more about our groups, Stephanie. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.440 We'll text each other people were respond and then it 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.760 gets to the point that somebody calls someone else and 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.080 then we're all on the phone, right, correct, that's the 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.160 tipping point that you have to get the person on 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:55.920 the phone, but all of a sudden, we're like, what 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.880 did you just say? Yeah, it's usually for clarification of 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.360 extremely offensive content, which is always from you. I haven't 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.840 slightly offensive maybe unpopular opinion, but I do. It's a 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.040 red flag for me in terms of never trust a 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.880 woman who doesn't have girlfriends, because I think who you 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.800 surround yourself, your girlfriends do make you better and smarter. 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.480 Is that, in your opinion, Amanda? An important thing, especially 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.239 when when it goes directly back to what Hillary was saying. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.200 When you think about people's public actions or hubrisk, it 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.240 often makes me think, where's that person's girlfriend, Where's their mother, 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.640 where's their sister? Where someone shaking them saying this is 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.120 a terrible move? What are you thinking? I would say, 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.679 we're broadly that people need friends. I guess for me, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:46.960 you know, some of my closest friends are guys, and 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.960 both gay and straight men. That's just always been true 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.280 in my life that I have a lot of friends 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:52.719 who are women and a lot of friends who are men. 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.840 You know, So for whatever reason, that hasn't been true 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.559 for me so much that it's just been a kind 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.840 of like mainly female group of people who are my 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.480 support system. You know, I think that friends are critical. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:05.199 I mean this came up a lot during the Trump 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.400 presidency when clearly he had a lot of acquaintances, but 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.440 you never really had the sense of him having a 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.000 lot of friends, and that in this way that was 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.160 very um concerning. It was one of the things that 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.080 made Trump feel very alien. I think a lot of 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:20.480 people is that he seemed to have a lot of 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.760 like business associates, but not people who work for him. 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.160 I guess maybe I say girlfriends because for me personally, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.600 while I have men and women friends, men don't come 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.320 to me unsolicited and say that was a bad move, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.480 that was the wrong thing you said. My women friends 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.079 do that for me to trust women more when they 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.680 say that, whereas men won't say that to you at all, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:44.680 or you if they did say it, you would be 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.920 concerned about what their motives were. A man would say 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.800 it to me if I asked him, but a woman 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.680 would say it to me unsolicited because she risked putting 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:59.360 herself out there. A real friend will risk hurting you, 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.840 hurting your feelings, hurting their relationship with you by telling 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.600 you the truth. I have that with women. I don't 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.280 have that with men. I have a ton of men 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.840 friends too. Apparently Amanda and I went on that score. 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.480 Not that this group is competitive at all, but anyway, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.520 I don't think I have one group chat you know 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.760 more than two people with men. Does anyone else I do? Yeah, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:26.040 I did too, Yeah, business or personal personal, Okay, I 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.760 do not. I have a lot of one on one 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.640 but no group kara. That is a thing. There's a 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.440 whole idea of girlfriends and you know, someone we do 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.640 talk about in our group, Cheryl Sandberg and a lot 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:36.959 of the stuff like that. She used to have these 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.760 dinners in Silicon Valley that we're all women that were 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:41.960 at her house and they have a guest in and 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:43.920 stuff like that. And at the time, she was trying 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.120 to prote the idea that there weren't networks of women 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.640 and these these were work events because a lot of 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.440 men have these work events naturally. Um, so she was 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.920 trying to promote work events. What I have seen a 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.080 lot more of is women doing more by themselves in 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.280 a network point view, in helping each other at a 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.679 network point view than ever before. That's something that's really shifted. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.400 I think a lot more that there's individualized networks of women. 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.800 I think about and this isn't a good group chat, 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.200 but like Melinda Gates and Mackenzie Scott and some mothers 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.360 and lorn jobs are all giving money to women and 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.240 venture capitalist for example, like right now because they want 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.720 to promote a lot of different things whatever they're trying 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.920 to do. That would be a pretty funny group chat, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.120 I know. And I just say care of when you 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.480 were doing code and we were all there, we would 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.200 have dinner that Hillary hosted, Yes exactly, I'm just gonna 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.280 mention another. Yeah, and it was women and there's real 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.839 bonding and I'm sorry it doesn't take place the same 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.120 way with men. I do think men don't volunteer it 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.480 because some men are, of course nervous to like, you know, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.880 there's very few men. Maybe Scott Galloway would tell you, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.199 for example, what he really think. Who does doesn't he 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.080 but he's like a girlfriend, right. I think men feel 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.360 nervous about saying something to you that would be helpful. 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.920 You be nervous to do so. These days, I think 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.400 in a lot of ways are not used to having 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.760 that kind of friendship relationships. I think that tends to 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.840 be harder, and then so you end up not confiding 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.959 in them as much, I guess. And that's I think 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.359 the very point, which is we all have an obligation 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.760 in our profession to engage men, to be thoughtful, to 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.600 be good colleague, to the extent that we're talking about 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.840 feeding our own soul, we can have the obligation to 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.440 figure out who feeds our soul, Like we don't have 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.040 to raise up men to do that if we're not 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.079 Amanda and have those you know, fuzzy men in our 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.880 life already. So yes, of course there's you know, great 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.360 men out there. But you know, I stretch to say 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.800 that women have a different kind of communication when it's 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.720 just women, and so a different kind of lived experience 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.000 that women have, you know, so that there's certain kinds 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.440 of things that are similar, both personally and I think professionally, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.560 Like there's certain bullshit that you deal with as a 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.320 woman that other women also deal with and that you 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.000 don't need to explain in that sense. I think it's 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.000 you know, I feel like I look to women friends 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:03.920 less to call me out than to have my back 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.280 and to yeah, help me, help reassure me that I'm saying. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:09.880 I feel like I've spent a lot of time during 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.440 this COVID pandemic in particular, just telling other women that 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.439 they're having a hard time because the situation is really hard. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.720 People who are struggling with things like their kids, mental health, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.479 they're taking care of their parents and their kids simultaneously, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.000 and you know, trying to kind of do the impossible. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.959 And there's a way that having another woman tell you 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.680 you're doing what you can, you're doing the right thing. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.199 I've got your back, Call me anytime you need to 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.760 blow off steam like that, is that. I definitely see 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:41.760 women helping each other out that way a lot. We'll 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:55.320 be back after the break. The fact that we all 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.840 know and have one another is a privilege, because, especially 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.120 corporate America, over the last ten or fifteen years, you know, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:08.600 they sort of identified the importance of formal women's networks. However, 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.720 for me, and I'm going to guess all of you 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:15.040 here at sort of name your Fortune five company or 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.800 bank and their women's networking events and their conferences, We've 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.440 all attended them, spoke at them, drank their wine, eating 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.960 their cheese, and that in and of itself has become 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.800 sort of a cottage industry that unfortunately becomes a bit 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.000 of a of a pink ghetto. Do you actually think 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.880 that formal women's networking campaigns and events make more of 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:43.720 a difference or actually connecting with individuals caring about them, Right, 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.160 none of us work together per se. We can't directly, 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.200 day in and day out, say ka, I'm gonna deliver 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.760 this thing that's going to help advance you. Because when 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.320 you were talking about these women's networking dinners, they often 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:00.200 have formal takeaways and plans and then they tell you know, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.600 twenty three year old, once you find a sponsor and 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.880 a mentor, that's your path. What we all have has 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.720 nothing to do with a formal network, Kara, Right, No, 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:10.560 I no, of course not. We can help each other. 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:12.720 I was just talking to someone today in a group 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.160 chat and they needed help meeting someone and this was 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.960 a social one and I just said, I can do 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:19.800 this for you, right, So, No, I think we spent 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.720 a lot of time gossiping. Really we honestly do. Or 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.640 there's news stories. We don't have to say what news stories. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.360 We like to like think when something happens, like usually 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.080 Stephanie is like, oh my good God. Essentially she's like 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.600 can you believe this? I mean I couldn't believe when 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.120 Heidi Cruz got outed by her group chat when I 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.120 think about who's on your group chat, Like, how would 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.560 that even happen? Tammy? Yeah, And this is a person 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.640 that doesn't have power doesn't have water, and the first 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.200 thing they do is they're leaking Heidie cruises. And then 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.880 who's the photographer that's taking pictures of our poor woman 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.360 in her bikini with her kids on the beach. Honestly, 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.960 TMC has resources everywhere. I think the question our group 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.400 chet became who would drop a dime on everybody? And 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.920 we think it's gift. It was believe I volunteered, and 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.040 then we started to worry that we should kick you 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.560 out or not. And then something about our group check 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.880 got up on Twitter and there was a lot of comment. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.600 Here is the deal. If you pulled Idi CRUs I 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.080 would totally drop a dime on you. Thank you. There 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.360 you go. You cannot betray the group in with a 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.080 behavior like that. I'm gonna take a step back those 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:27.600 um and I'm gonna disagree a little bit with Stephanie 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.640 on the whole idea of the pink ghetto, the groups 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.760 that have formed around women's organizations, news organizations, et cetera, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.640 because at first I felt the way you did, and 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.240 then I went to one. It was one of the 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.440 Fortune Women's Dinners. Well those are very good, they are, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.280 And I was sitting with younger people, and I thought, 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.480 you know what's really good about this. They get to see, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.000 you know, some of the more older and more successful women, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.840 and they can model behavior. I am a parent at heart, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.360 right and I feel like, and you guys are great 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.080 with my kids. Even when Stephanie curses, was so much 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:06.080 conviction that teaches my daughter when you curse, you really curse, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.160 and you gotta use your hands, you gotta make it count. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.560 Your daughter is so mild mannered compared to Stephanie exactly. 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:17.120 It's a real opportunity for women to see how other 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.840 women operate at a high level, and even at like 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.920 Code is another example where you had Kara had I 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:27.840 act like it. And it will never happen again. I'm 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.040 sure it'll come back, and I'll look forward to Why 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.960 was it so valuable Because you saw really successful people, 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.560 You saw people in the middle, you saw people struggling, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.720 You saw journalists, and everyone was talking to each other 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.719 and and even when they didn't want to write. I 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.160 think that's true. I also think though, that the five 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.080 of us have sort of a little bit of a 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.480 non traditional career in that we don't depend on big 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.760 corporations in that way, we don't have those kind of bosses, 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.120 we sort of have each developed our own brand, our 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.159 own actions, our own careers, and I think, and to 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.320 be serious per second, I do think, Yeah, we gossip 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.560 a lot, but I think there have been multiple times 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.000 where we've relied on each other to figure out how 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.520 to define that, what that means, What do we expect 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.800 of ourselves? What are other people expect of us? And 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.840 I think that similar to those kinds of sort of 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.120 corporate outings, UM, where they have unique issues like how 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.840 do I get to be from a you know, s 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.919 VP into the C suite? We don't have that issue, 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.760 but we have other issues right um, whether it's contracts 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.360 or whether it's colleagues or whatever it is. And so 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:37.639 I do think that this kind of judgment free support. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.119 Here's what I did, Here's who I talked to, Here's 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.560 the experience I had. Let me introduce you to so 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.560 and so. I think that's kind of invaluable. And I 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.159 it is recreating, as Amanda said before, what men have 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.480 done for centuries. And I don't think we should hide 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.399 the fact that we do it. I think we should 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.159 embrace it. Do you think we get judged more for 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.640 being women? And I turned to Amanda. If we were 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:07.000 all respective CEOs of different businesses and put all of 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:11.359 us one another on each other's advisory boards, or picked 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.320 one of us to be the banker for our next deal. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.280 That is the way corporate America has worked forever and 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.600 ever and ever. Right, you can track certain guys and 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.400 they have huge overlap and all the deals they've ever done, 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.159 the boards they sit on together. Would there be a 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.800 whole lot more scrutiny if it were the five of 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.840 us doing that same thing. That's an interesting question. I mean, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.720 I think that that network does exist to some extent 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.639 among women, but I think less so because women have 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.879 less power. I know so many more women who are 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.240 kind of stuck at the deputy level in whatever situation 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.000 they're in. You know, I know a lot of women 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.800 who are working to help each other handle that situation. 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.879 But I think that there you have your situations where 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.080 it's just a woman who's at the top of the 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.520 pyramid and can therefore make alliances with other women at 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.440 the top of the pyramid. You know, right now, there's 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.159 a big generation of women who have been told that 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.040 they can have whatever they want and they should be 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.719 able to get there and you know, I know that 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.920 in my own career, I've had moments where I've had 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.520 to take a step back to realize that something about 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.800 what's happening at work actually is sexism, like actually is 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.119 you know, I had a situation happen once and a 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.639 friend of mine who's very high level corporate lawyers, said, 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:31.919 you know, what's happening is you're hitting the glass ceiling, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.360 and I just really was startled. You know, I sort 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.520 of didn't think that that was something that would happen 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.040 to me. And there are moments that you realize, you know, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.600 it's it can be less the glass ceiling than a 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:43.959 discomfort with women being in charge, or you know this 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.320 idea that men you know, what's been sort of found 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.919 in studies is that men are hired on potential and 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.840 women are hired on accomplishment. And you know this idea 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:54.399 of the glass cliff or women are sent in to 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.560 clean up other people's messes. Um so I think, you know, 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.679 I don't know whether there would be more scrutiny, but 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.359 I that it would be a more unusual situation to have, 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.520 like essentially the you know, see you on the golf links. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.479