1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: Campsite media. How's it going, How are you right? Very 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: nice to meet. I don't usually get black jeeves with 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: men I just met, but I'm not gay. But ten 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: bucks is ten bucks right. Looks like we're off to 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: a good start already, so you want to see my reservation. 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: Earlier this year, I drove up to upstate New York 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: to meet a man we're calling Danny. He's a retired 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: New York State Police officer who agreed to show me 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: around the aguasas Name Mohawk Territory. He has to be 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: anonymous because he still investigates and testifies on cases in 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: the area. Should we get rolled? Absolutely sounds good. Danny's 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: a longtime trooper who spent twelve years working in this 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: part of New York, just by the Canadian border, and 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: back in the day, a big part of Danny's job 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: was patrolling the Aguasasna Territory. They called it res duty. 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: What was the reaction of most Brickey cops that had 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: their first year on resduded uh deer in the headlights 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: when we first take them take them down there, They 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: just they couldn't believe. They go, well, can they do that? 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: And we'd go. Yeah, yeah, there is For those cops. 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: Res duty felt like frat house hazy, but Daddy loved it. 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: Early eighties to late eighties, it was It was the 23 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: wild West. It was nothing back then to have yes 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: pursuits in a night and you're doing a D D 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: and ten and the car you're pursuing is throwing beer 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: bottles at you. And it wasn't their first rodeo. They 27 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: don't throw them straight back, no, no, no, they throw 28 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: them up in the air so they land in front 29 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: of you. But yeah, lost a few windshields. But it 30 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: was just a crazy time, crazy time. Someone nicknamed him 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: res Rockets because their cars went fucking fly. Aside from 32 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: car chases and beer bottles, this was a turbulent time 33 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: in Agrasasna. Angry residents who believed that the Native police 34 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: were siding with the federal government demanded that the police 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: disband and leave the reservation, and in the years that followed, 36 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: that security void was filled by folks who had money 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: and more importantly, had weapons. What would this entrance have 38 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: looked like thirty years ago, blocked with tires stack five 39 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: or six deep, ten high. At night, they'd have bonfires 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: and they're all standing around it, the natives with their 41 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: faces covered with masks, carrying assault weapons, shotguns, and they 42 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: had actual shifts that people were assigned to roadblocks, and 43 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: they had roving patrols. Danny isn't native and he's a 44 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: law enforcement officer, so he doesn't really provide the definitive 45 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: perspective of agassn but the picture he paints to the 46 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: place is compelling themtheless and shows just how tense things 47 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: were back then. He was forced to work undercover because 48 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: of the hostility that state police faced. I mean, we 49 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: didn't have, you know, the fancy lighting the spoiled punks 50 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: have today. He had fucking burn barrels, and it was 51 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 1: he was medieval here. You go up to the burn 52 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: barrels and you got guys standing there with cowboy hats 53 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: and shotguns and spoken big cigars, And do you feel 54 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: like you're in a movie? Back then? It could have been. 55 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: It apps to fucking lutly could have been if that 56 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: movie ever got made. There's no doubt what the opening 57 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: shots would be. A gigantic warehouse looking building on the 58 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: corner of the main road here in Aguasas. Today it's 59 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: totally abandoned and boarded up. But thirty years ago this 60 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: was a casino and in the summer it was the 61 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: scene of one of the most dramatic events of Aguasas's history. 62 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: The casino was full of gamblers and security guards, the 63 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: parking lot was full of protesters who wanted to shut 64 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: it all down, and a cavalry of police cars were 65 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: on their way. It was a classic Mexican standoff. And 66 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: when we got to the casino, there's probably troop cars, 67 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: probably troopers, officers, investigators. We were met with two Maudus 68 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: fifty caliber machine guns on the roof of that casino. 69 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: From Campside Media and Dan Patrick Productions, this is running smoke. 70 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah right, I'm rogi Gola and this is episode seven 71 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: Civil War. When Derek turned himself into the police, he 72 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: knew then and there that he was going to fight 73 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: this case all the way to the end. Whether it 74 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: was bankruptcy, jail time, or victory. Derek was all in 75 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: and now he was appealing his case on a constitutional basis. 76 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: This was the first time a tobacco case had come 77 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: this far. In every other instance, the case would languish 78 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: and appeals for years before being dismissed by a judge. 79 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: It seemed like Canada wasn't interested in addressing the issue 80 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: head on, But this time was different. The judge had 81 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: agreed to hear the case and the stage was set 82 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: for a landmark decision. But it's exactly because the stakes 83 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: were so high that the Mohawk Nation had asked Derek 84 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: and Hunter to drop their case. The risk of losing 85 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: was too great and they'd ready seen what could happen 86 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: when things went wrong. They were concerned that we're using 87 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: these agreements that were made as a defense, which is 88 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: true Hunter Montur Derek's co accused, and they were worried 89 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: that if we lose that it's going to affect the 90 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Mohawk Nation. I said, well, what the hell's the point 91 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: of having these tools if we can't use them, when 92 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: are you going to use them? Well, there's another time 93 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: for this, when this is the time. Right now is 94 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: the time. So don't be dumbass. Oh well, we know 95 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: we shouldn't do this right now. You should just roll 96 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: over and take it. Not me. I have every right 97 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: to use these laws or whatever you want to however 98 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: you want to phrase it, agreements that were made that 99 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: are binding. So why can't I use this to defend myself. 100 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: If I can't use it, what the hell good is it? 101 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: And are you going to use it? I don't see 102 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: any of you fighting for land or or or pushing 103 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: for more rights. I don't see it. I've dedicated myself 104 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: to whatever I could to help our nation, and I 105 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: should be able to use my what I'm fighting for 106 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: to help myself to get out of whatever. It is. 107 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: Stupid ass predicament I'm in. That's what we do this 108 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: for them and c C is basically stating that I'm 109 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: using my rights because of a criminal activity. What is 110 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: not criminal in activity? In the eyes of the government, 111 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: it's criminal activity. But for us here, it's just our 112 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: our how do you put it, It's what we've grown 113 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: up to to do. I mean there's not much left. 114 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: I mean they stole all our land. Um, they have 115 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: highways coming truer reserve at all ends. I mean we 116 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: have to benefit from it somehow. I mean we have 117 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: the gas stations and we have secrets. So that's what 118 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: they get for stealing our land. The question at the 119 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: heart of Derek's case boiled down to this, the rights 120 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: belong to an individual or do they belong to a community. 121 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: Derek argued that the rights belonged to individuals. Mohawk's had 122 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: a right to trade tax free, and he had just 123 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: as much claim to that right as any other Mohawk. 124 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: But the Council of Chiefs, well, they believed that right 125 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: belonged to the community and community institutions. The way they 126 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: saw it, Derek had done his business without the permission 127 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: of the Mohawk government, so it wasn't appropriate for him 128 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: to claim Mohawk rights now that he was in trouble. 129 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: It's a debate over what sovereignty actually means, and it's 130 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: one that nearly tore apart one Mohawk territory decades ago. 131 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: To understand why it's such a difficult question, we have 132 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: to go back to the nineteen seventies, to the birth 133 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: of the modern Native rights movement. We'll get into all 134 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: that right after the break. This was the era when 135 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: groups like a I AM, the American Indian Movement but 136 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: Native rights on the map and staged radical protests like 137 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: reclaiming Wounded need from corrupt leaders. Either we forced the 138 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: federal government to kill us all, or else they come 139 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: out and they negotiate and meet our demands. They occupied 140 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: Alcatraz and demanded its return to Native people. They d 141 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: a learning in peaceful Their sub fishermen's wre was shattered 142 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: suddenly by the ridic mean of Indian timetowns, and they 143 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: even took over the Bureau of Indian Affairs in d C. 144 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: After a cross country march they called the Trail of 145 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: Broken Treaties. The Indians came from everywhere, and they came 146 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: with a purpose. By the time we start doing something, 147 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: I think this is a test to see how the 148 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: government can uphold the law. Native Americans were developing a 149 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: radical political consciousness, and sovereignty became the political project of 150 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: the moment. Sovereignty meant writing your own rules, standing on 151 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: your own two feet, and not letting anyone else tell 152 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: you otherwise. An important part of that fight for self 153 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: determination was economic, but not everyone agreed on exactly how 154 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: to build up that economy. It became an especially contentious 155 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: issue once some Native community started experimenting with gambling and 156 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: tax free tobacco. It was a sort of legal gray 157 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: area that would soon become a battleground. Doug George Canendio 158 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: is a prominent Mohawk journalist and advocate who lives outside 159 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: of Agua Sas. Back in the day, he reported on 160 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: how these new ideas were changing his community. I was 161 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: involved with this issue when it first came to our 162 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: attention in n when individuals from our sister community of 163 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: Gonawaga approached us and ask they could secure a license 164 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: to transport tobacco products across the international border. And they 165 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do this in order to form a new economy, UM, 166 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: to introduce wealth and to our our communities. Tobacco was 167 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: risk free, had high profit margins and a constant demand. 168 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: It seemed like a golden ticket. But Doug George and 169 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: the Traditional Leadership Council he sat on weren't fully convinced 170 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: that council was concerned at tobacco, Uh, something that's extremely 171 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: sacred to the Mohawk people should become a commodity. Uh. 172 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: And they knew that there would be serious ramifications. You know. 173 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: Our elders told us, they warned us, don't do this, 174 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: and we thought we could control it. We were wrong. 175 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: Pretty quickly, the tobacco industry swept through the Mohawk territories. 176 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: Before the Nation Council could make a decision. The handful 177 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: of the Native entrepreneurs who got into the cigarette game 178 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: early on, became massively wealthy in a short amount of time, 179 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: and Doug George was afraid of the implications of that 180 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: sort of wealth gap. Unless we had firm control of this, 181 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: these individuals, we're going to grow very powerful. They were 182 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: going to do something that was fairly alien to our 183 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 1: Mohawk way of life, in that they were going to 184 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: create a handful of very rich people who are then 185 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: going to turn around and use their wealth to manipulate 186 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: the community, Uh, towards our own ends. Ours is not 187 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: a community that is given to capitalism. You know. We 188 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: were a people who develop a system by which all 189 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: of us could prosper, and we were adamantly opposed to 190 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: the rise of a wealthy elite who would then dictate 191 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: how that society would be to the rest of us. 192 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: That that's something that is so alien to to Mohawk tradition. 193 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: Tobacco money started pouring into other lucrative gray markets like 194 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: casinos and Bengo halls, even though gambling was illegal elsewhere 195 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: in Canada and the West. The smugglers and casino owners 196 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: claimed that the reserves were sovereign territory. Federal laws didn't apply. 197 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: Tobacco and gambling were controversial issues within the territory, but 198 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: they were symbols for an even bigger set of questions. 199 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: These people are using that and saying, I am sovereign, 200 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: therefore I got a right to do what every what 201 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: I want on my sovereign territory. While it's not your territory. 202 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: You aren't sovereign, You're not Sovereignty belongs to the collective. 203 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: And we fought great battles, as as Mohawks and as 204 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: natives to in order to secure a certain level of 205 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: self control and self determination. But these guys are undermining that. 206 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: They espoused all of this rhetoric about helping the nation 207 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: and the people and you know, upholding traditional values, but 208 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: they were destroying the very thing that they were claiming 209 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: to try to strengthen. You know, they were destroying the 210 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: idea of of a stable central government. They were undermining 211 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: the authority of traditional law. They were violating um our 212 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: customs and our culture. This was the battleground on which 213 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: the Mohawks Civil War would play out. Anti tobacco and 214 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: anti gambling advocates on one side trying to preserve their 215 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: traditions against an influx of money earned off of vice 216 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: and exploitation. These were known as the antis. On the 217 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: other side were the casino and tobacco supporters, tired of 218 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: playing by the old rules. Gambling and cigarettes offered a 219 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: way out, offered a way to build an economy. Why 220 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: should they sit out while everyone else moves ahead? How 221 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: did the antis see rights differently than you see rights? 222 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: They don't mind being in the arm pit up the 223 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: United States government. Lauren Thompson was a traditional leader in 224 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: Agrasas back in the nineteen eighties. He had a reputation 225 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: as a fierce and wily defender who would take radical 226 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: action to protect the community. Once, when laggers tried to 227 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: cut down trees to establish a border around agass Lauren 228 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: confiscated their machinery and kicked off a month's long standoff 229 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: with government officials. Lauren believed that tobacco and gambling offered 230 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: massive potential for Mohawks to lift themselves up. Sure it 231 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: wasn't exactly clean or noble money, but he felt that 232 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: was a reasonable cost to achieve true economic independence. He 233 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: clashed with others in the community and ultimately lost his 234 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: leadership position for trying to bring a casino to the reserve. 235 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: He felt that the antis were holding the community back. 236 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: They don't mind their treaties being secondary Trudeau United States 237 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: law and court decisions. They do mind that. In other words, 238 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: they accept being American citizens. Okay, where's the the hardcore 239 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: traditional people will stand up and fight for the rights 240 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: in their own land, just as the settlers was stand up, 241 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: grab a gun and fight for their freedom. Say that's 242 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: how we fight. We we stand as equals to the 243 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: government of the United States, the people of the United States. 244 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: But it created a problem because there was so much 245 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: money being made that a lot of the community wanted 246 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: a part of it because they were starting to say, 247 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: you're using my rights to do this right. So so 248 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: there was all kinds of conversations going on at that time, 249 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: and that were created a different of opinion all over 250 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: the place and from there and it just kept growing. 251 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden was um uh protests 252 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: from the Longhouse people. People we thought we were on 253 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: that were on our side. So they did the protests 254 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: and then they came to the point where they shut 255 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: off they closed off the toll gate where the buses 256 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: were coming through, so that put a halt tool the 257 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: major part of the casino going on when they were 258 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: right back, you're listening to running smoke left. By the 259 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: late nineties, tensions between the antis and the tobacco gambling 260 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: crowd were growing intense. Cigarettes were coming in by the 261 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: semi truck load, and streets were backed up with tour 262 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: buses full of Americans and Canadians coming into gamble at 263 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: the casinos. Money was flowing into the reserve like never before. 264 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: Buildings were going up, roads were being paved, and smoke 265 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: shacks were popping up like mushrooms after a rain. And 266 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: just as Doug George had predicted, a new class of 267 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: wealthy elites was turning the old way of life in 268 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: Aguas upside down. The casinos had become incredibly contentious on 269 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: the reservation, and Tony's Vegas International was at the center 270 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: of the debate. There was a federal ban on gambling, 271 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: but the owner of the casino, Tony Laughing, said that 272 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: didn't apply in aguasas it was his right as a 273 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: Mohawks citizen. State police beg to differ. What ignited really 274 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: the issue in ninety was Tony was running an illegal 275 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: casino out of there. At the time in New York State. 276 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: It was illegal run I illegal casino, go figure. So 277 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: we had undercover officers go into the casino and he 278 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: had I don't know, a hundred D slot machines. Well 279 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 1: that was illegal. So state police put a detail together 280 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: to raid the casino and somehow the Natives were apprized 281 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: of the oncoming rate armed mohawks and casino security were 282 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: standing by ready to defend the casino. We were met 283 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: with two Maudus fifty caliber machine guns on the roof 284 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: of that casino. That's an impressive site when you're sitting 285 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: there with a magnum and at twelve game jack. So 286 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: discretion being the better part of valor, we left and 287 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: as soon as we left, that's when the roadblocks went 288 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: up and the fun really started. Once the police left 289 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: the scene, anti gambling protesters realized that they were on 290 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: their own, and in the spring of they decided to 291 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: fight this battled themselves. A group of people said enough 292 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: and they decided that they were going to stop a 293 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: lot of these uh large buses that were coming onto 294 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: reservation every day and to patronize at casinos. And so 295 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: they formed a roadblock and they said, holy cal that 296 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: they had actually done this in the people had their roadblocks. 297 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: We were well aware that they did this at high risk. 298 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: That risk came from the fact that at the time 299 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: there were no state or Mohawk cops operating on the reserve. 300 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: They'd been kicked out years earlier in a different set 301 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: of protests. The only policing force in Agusas now was 302 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: the Mohawks Sovereignty Security Force, otherwise known as the Mohawk Warriors. 303 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: The Warrior Society had been around for decades, and in 304 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: the early days it was simply a revival of older customs. 305 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: It was a society for young men who wanted to 306 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: fulfill traditional roles. Their symbol was the flag of a 307 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: Mohawk Warrior head on a red background. It was the 308 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: same flag that Derek had painted on the hood of 309 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: his Race car Warrior handbook. Who was really about the 310 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: role of the men and it channeled that energy and 311 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: it put it in to me in a good way 312 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: that it gave the men direction and what to do. 313 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: Kenneth Dear was a spokesperson for the Mohawk Nation during 314 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: these years, and he saw how the Warriors in August 315 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: Sassy were getting drawn into a political battle. It wasn't 316 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: a criminal organization. Wasn't supposed to be a criminal organization, 317 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: you know. It was supposed to be a way to 318 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: teach the men are responsibilities and within tradition, you know. 319 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: And uh, some unfortunately, some people used it like a gang. 320 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: And and I can't support that. When anti gambling protesters 321 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: set up roadblocks in the spring of they knew that 322 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: they'd be up against the Mohawk Warriors and there was 323 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: going to be a reaction in the Mohawk Sovereignty Security Force, 324 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: which was supposed to provide a protection for the community, 325 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: showed where they're real allegiance slide, and that they became 326 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: deeply involved with the casino group and trying to break 327 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: the roadblocks in order to resume the smuggling and resume 328 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: the casino gambling. And these guys were lazy, They weren't trained, 329 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: they didn't have the discipline, they didn't have the psychological background, 330 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: the spiritual background. Uh, they didn't know how to control 331 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: their weapons. They would ride around in and the souped 332 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: up cars and trucks and r vs, not RVs but SUVs, 333 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: and and with with these weapons whose only purpose was 334 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: to kill other human beings and They were fueled by 335 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs, and they were employed as goon squads 336 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: by the cigarette smugglers who had now become the casino owners. 337 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: They had nothing of the virtues of a real mohawk 338 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: if you want to call a warrior. The roadblocks were 339 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: an escalation in the war between antis and casino owners. 340 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: Each side was dug in, accusing the other of collaborating 341 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: with the World government of corrupting the community. Mohawk warriors 342 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: would drive around the reservation and pickup trucks with automatic 343 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: weapons and military fatigues. They manned checkpoints at the border 344 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: of the reserve and became a vigilante force. They had 345 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: become a flashpoint in this conflict. Their supporters saw them 346 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: as defenders of the community, but to the anties they 347 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: were a marauding gang serving the smugglers. Tensions rose every 348 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: day and violence was becoming a regular part of life 349 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: in agrasas arson, vandalism, beatings and shootings, even a grenade attack. 350 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: It was, you know, automatic gunfire, all sorts of things 351 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: going on there, and that people across the river in 352 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: Ontario would come out in their porch and listen to 353 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: and say what no world has gone on over there, 354 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: but it was it was, it was, it was. It 355 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: was a combat situation. Eventually two people were killed in 356 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: the crossfire. Other Mohawk nations, which had done their best 357 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: to stay out of Agrasasne, now had little option but 358 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: to intervene. Kenneth Dear, the traditional leader in Gonawage, was 359 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: sent to aguas Sasine to see what could be done 360 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: about bringing both sides back together. You know, we we 361 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: tried our best to stay out of the the casino 362 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: war over there. We were trying to be pulled into that. 363 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: And our guys went there and and looked at what's 364 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: going on, and they came back and said, stay out 365 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: of there. He says, there's no there's no middle ground 366 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: over there. Either you're four or against. The situation was 367 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: so bad that if you weren't for them, you're against them. 368 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: If you want to build an economy, that's fine, and 369 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: it should be also be a collective, you know, but 370 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: when the collective didn't agree with what was going on, 371 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: and then it became uh an individual issue. It's hard 372 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: to to make peace when there's no middle ground and UH, 373 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: and that's why you know, it ended up with two 374 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: people being dead. You know, it's it's It was unfortunate. 375 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: But then came the Oka crisis. Hear firing. I'm not 376 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: sure if the weapons bard that we had the day 377 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: that they're firing at it good evening. It was a 378 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: bloody day at the Mohawk Indian community and Oca Quebec 379 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: near Montreal. Provincial police in riot gears stormed the barricades 380 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: the Mohawks had set up. There's an out of weapons 381 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: fire and now is this police firing or Mohawk firing 382 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: here to be coming from the police find the Combet 383 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: Police Force swap team moved in. It done and if 384 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: ever a police operation was to go tragically wrong, it 385 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: was this one. What kind of people are you? There's 386 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: children here and you're shooting tear gas at us. We're 387 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: unarmed and you're aiming your weapons at us. What kind 388 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: of people are you? Police use gas, then bullets, but 389 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: they weren't prepared for what met them. Dozens of heavily 390 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: armed Mohawk men determined to hold what they say is 391 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: their sacred ground behind a tree. There were clouds of 392 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: tear gas, a hail of bullets, and in the midst 393 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: of the battle of policemen was killed. All this because 394 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: of a dispute over a piece of forest. The Indians 395 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: claim is there's a forest owned council wants to bulldoze 396 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: to expand the local golf course. Back in, the mayor 397 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: of a small village near Montreal called Oka was pushing 398 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: a plan to develop a condominium complex and expanded golf 399 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: course on the outskirts of town, but that land belonged 400 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: to the Ghanesstaga Mohawk Territory and served as a cemetery 401 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: for the community. The protests that followed made international headlines 402 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: and turned into a three month long standoff between armed 403 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: Mohawk warriors and the Canadian military. That's what's killing our people. 404 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: These people here who don't give a ship about anybody's 405 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: rights under mown Indian has a right on this under 406 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: this land, Well, let's got to tink. It's Mohawk land, 407 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: it's our land. After the police retreated, the warriors celebrated, 408 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: but it didn't last long. Tonight, the barricade is completely 409 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: surrounded by the Canadian armies. The soldiers have dug themselves 410 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: in After a day of high tension and drama. The 411 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: images from the front lines were icon overturned cars barricades 412 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: made out of burning tires and trees. Men dressed in 413 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: camouflage fatigues with bandanas over their faces and a K 414 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: forty seven's on their backs, all standing against Canadian soldiers 415 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: in tanks and humbies. Again. Today, Native leaders in Ottawa 416 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: demanded the federal government do something about the confrontation. In Oka, 417 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: warriors were nearing hysteria the site of soldiers near their 418 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: tribal cemetery. The Indians at Oka have said they won't 419 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: abandoned their barricades until they get what they want. After 420 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: such a sudden, violent beginning, this could turn out to 421 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: be a long standoff. And there's also trouble on the 422 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: Conawaga Reserve south of Montreal, a sympathy blockade. Indigenous territories 423 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: across the continent took part in the protests. Leaders in 424 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: Gnawaga made the decision to shut down the Mercy A Bridge, 425 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: one of the major highways that links Montreal with towns 426 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: across the St. Lawrence River. In the end, the protests 427 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: were successful and the golf course was never expanded. Nevertin 428 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: calmed down after ninety because that was one, you know, 429 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: we went into the court system and all of that stuff, 430 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: But but it was one are people were known all 431 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: over the place for defending and so on and so forth. 432 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: Maybe we didn't win in court, or maybe some people 433 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: lost in court, but overall we won, we wont, and 434 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: then gambling and cigarettes it didn't seem like the biggest issue, 435 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: and the more the victory at Oka was hard one, 436 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: and months of protests had changed the perspective of many 437 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: people in Mohawk territories. Of course it was a traumatic issue, 438 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: but also it was an enlightenment to a lot of people. 439 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: They realized those people a lot of people who were 440 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: against cigarettes. Uh, all of a sudden, we're surrounded by 441 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: the by the s Q and the army, and there's 442 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: more important things that the series. And so when the 443 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,719 Speaker 1: crisis was over, I thought cigarettes would be dead. And 444 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: then it was struggled for a little while, but then 445 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: it just owned and you saw a whole lot of 446 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: people who were against cigarettes who were now bright in 447 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: there because they felt that why be against cigarettes? They 448 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: felt that they didn't matter anymore. You know, if the 449 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: government also treat us that way, then that then I 450 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: have no problem with getting involved, no serious. There was 451 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 1: a change the attitude towards cigarettes. It was like night 452 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: and day. From was like night and day. Aguas's internal 453 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: conflict had cooled down completely, but it left the debate 454 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 1: over individual and collective rights unresolved. Danny the Company met 455 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: at the top of the episode, saw the entire evolution 456 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: of the conflict and how radically the smoke shops and 457 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: casinos changed again over the following decades. I think the 458 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: biggest lesson in my mind at the people down here 459 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: learned from ninety was blockade cuts their own throat as well. 460 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: Nothing was moving, Um, you couldn't smuggle anything out be 461 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: because the state police had patrols at every exit. Just 462 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it was kind of like a stare down 463 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: with the mohawks, and so the smuggling went downhill. There 464 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: was no civilian traffic. And back then they depended tremendously 465 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: on sales from non natives for cigarettes, tobacco, gasoline, and 466 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: that was just just like somebody through a switch, and 467 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: so economically it was a disaster for the people down here. 468 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: I think that comes into play at why it's been 469 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: so calm for so many years. So interesting to hear 470 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: you say that those things like the casinos, the gas 471 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: station and uh, tobacco is what improved life because in 472 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the books that get written about the 473 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: Mohawks Civil War and stuff, it's always the cops and 474 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: the anti is standing together against the warriors. And the 475 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: antis didn't like any of what they were seeing with 476 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: the new new businesses. Right, So I guess I just 477 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: didn't expect law enforcement to take the side that cigarettes, gambling, 478 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: gas stations were actually helping the community. Yeah, I agree, Um, 479 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I don't know if it's fair to classify 480 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: as taking sides, but possibly just being realistic. I don't 481 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: think the gambling has been detrimental to the reservation in 482 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: the way the antis thought it was gonna be. Um. 483 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: I know they pictured, you know, crack on the corner, 484 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: hookers every five ft, um, you know, Tony Sopranos sitting 485 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: in the lobby. But I don't think that has come 486 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: to fruition at all. And since the gas stations came in, 487 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: and the tobacco and then a casino, Um, the quality 488 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: of life really has improved tremendously down there on the reserve. 489 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it provides opportunity. I mean it's not all bad. 490 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: It's not all bad. Which brings us back to the 491 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: present day, and so the case that Derek is fighting 492 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: against the Canadian government, well, to be more precise, the 493 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: conflict between Derek and the Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs, 494 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: which is trying to get him to drop his case. 495 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: Derek is claiming that as a Mohawk, he has the 496 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: right to conduct his business tax free, but the Council 497 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: of Chiefs is claiming that Derek was not acting with 498 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: the permission or authority of the Mohawk Nation, so therefore 499 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: he can't claim native rights. It's the same question that 500 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: was at the heart of the Aguasasni conflict. Two rights 501 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: belong to the individual or do they belong to the community. 502 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: Kenneth Dear believes that those rights are best in the 503 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: community and that Derek's case could do more harm than good. 504 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: What is the risk of presenting a case of collective 505 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: france as in the majority, because they judges could decide 506 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: that a very bad judgment against them could affect all 507 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: of Lolla Mohawks. You know, the judgment could say that 508 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: the Mohawks do not have the collective right to transport 509 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: of cigarettes over the border, and that would be you know, disastrous. 510 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: You know if if a judgment said that, and particularly 511 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,479 Speaker 1: since the collective didn't make the argument. So if an 512 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: individual uh makes the argument and loses, we all lose. 513 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: If they if they think they phoned me guilty, well, 514 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: you know what, the whole nation is going to suffer 515 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: from this. I shouldn't be fighting this. It's it's the 516 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: whole nation. It's the whole community of everywhere, every community 517 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: in Canada and the United States. Basically, it's their fight. 518 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: It's not mine. But I'm the only one that is 519 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: bringing it to Supreme Court and fighting this. It was 520 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: plain to see that Derek was not going to drop 521 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: his case. He was going to fight it all the 522 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: way to the end, come hell or high water. The 523 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: Council of Chiefs had no choice but to take things further. 524 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: They were going to do something that they've never done before. 525 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: They demanded that the court allow them to intervene in 526 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: the case against Derek. The judge agreed. Coming up next 527 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: time on running smoke, I have to say the Nation 528 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: Council's involvement in the case right from the start was 529 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: damage control. It was how do we minimize the potential 530 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: damage to this This court could do not our court, 531 00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: not our judge, not our law. Running Smokes a production 532 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: of Campsite Media, Dan Patrick Productions and Workhouse Media. The 533 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: series was written and reported by me Roger Golan. Our 534 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: producers are Leah Papes, Lane Gerbig and Julie Denachet. Our 535 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: editors are Michelle Lands and Emily Martinez. Sound designed and 536 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: original music by Mark McAdam. Additional sound and mixing by 537 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: Ewen Lyon from Ewan. Additional reporting by Susie McCarthy. Our 538 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: executive producers are Dan Patrick, Josh Dean of Campsie Media, 539 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: Paul Anderson, Nick Vanella and Andrew Greenwood for Workhouse Media. 540 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Mary Matthis and Angelie Mercado, artwork by 541 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: Polly Adams, and additional thanks to Greg Horne, Johnny Kaufman, 542 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: Sierra Franco, Elizabeth van Brocklin and Sean Flynn