WEBVTT - Power Players: Rams Assistant GM John McKay 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.280 Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of NFL Daily's Power Players, 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.840 where we talk to football people and learn from them 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:13.840 and pull back the curtain of the sport for you 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.360 just a little further. Today, I'm stoked to be joined 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.480 by Ram's assistant general manager, John McKay, who has also 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.639 previously worked as the Pro Personnel Director and assistant director 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.480 of Pro Scouting. He'll enter training camp this summer after 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.600 interviews for the Miami Dolphins in Minnesota Vikings general manager jobs. 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.360 If you're a football fan, you know that the Rams 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.080 do things a little differently than many of their peers, 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.520 from their talent identification process to their financial and other 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.960 resource allocation, whether it's an f them pis era or 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.400 a draft and sprint rebuild era weighed down by record 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.920 setting dead money at the time that team building is 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:54.120 often among the NFL's biggest stories. Each season, they've tried 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.400 new ideas in scouting, from character assessments or projections into 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.560 head coach Sean mcvay's offense to their evaluation of the 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.280 middle round draft picks and cheap veterans acquired in free 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.000 agency that often supplement their big spins on stars elsewhere. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.560 So for John McKay. That has meant learning how to 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.440 stay agile through the process, a risky process at that 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.160 understanding their model could shift at any moment, and often 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.840 without other precedent to follow along the way. So today 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.560 we're going to talk about how a team becomes like this, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.000 how this shapes the people on the staff, among other items, 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.600 including the Miles Garrett trade, this off season in general, 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.959 and what in seasons and off seasons in a front 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.399 office actually look like. Ready to get into it, Welcome 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.160 to NFL Daily's Power Players, where we go inside the 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.360 NFL with the people who shape the sport. I am 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.959 joined today by Los Angeles Rams assistant general manager John McKay, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.800 who almost certainly has not had an interesting off season 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.800 at all. John. Thank you for joining me today on 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:54.560 Power Players. 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:56.160 Thank you for having me. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.000 So we're going to talk about Miles Garrett, We're going 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.800 to talk about your off season, talk about the process. 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.960 We're going to talk about all the things and the 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:08.320 expectations and the really intriguing storylines around this team. But 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.840 really what this show is about is helping people understand 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.959 what people like you actually do in their jobs and 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.399 what your path to the sport is why football has 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.360 become not just a job for you, but a calling 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:23.799 and a why. So I kind of want to start there. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.079 Why football. I know it's in the family, But when 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.160 did it spark for you as a child that this 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.240 is something that you're gonna probably be like a little 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:34.639 bit sickly obsessed with. 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.280 Probably probably as long as when I could first remember 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.760 is honestly when it became my why. Growing up, my 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.080 dad was with the Bucks kind of in the late 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.120 nineties early two thousands, and then transitioned to the Falcons. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.520 So I was always around it. I was always entrenched 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.480 in it. It was always a part of our life. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.880 It was always a big part of my family. It's 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.920 what brought us together, what made us and even closer 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.160 than we've you know, could have been. So it was 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.160 always it was always the biggest. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:05.399 Part of my life. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:07.920 It was something I knew from an early age I 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.880 wanted to do. I got, you know, quickly obsessed with 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:16.360 team building, roster building, player evaluation, different ways to attack it. 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:19.280 And so that was an obsession from an early age, 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.480 and then I think, much to my dad's displeasure, it 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.679 became what I wanted to do for a career. He 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.520 was always very adamant that I He's like, please just 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.639 do something else, and I'm like, how can I grow 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:32.280 up around this? 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:34.840 This not be what I do? Like, it's way too 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:35.400 fun for that. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.920 But it's also I understand the downsides too, But it 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.840 was always what I was going to do, and the 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.520 exposures I had in early age were things I wouldn't 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.840 trade for anything. Being around some of those teams and 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.280 the people that I met, you know, both on the staffs, 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.880 the players, whatever it may be. Being around my dad, 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.040 watching him do it at a high level was always 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:58.920 something that I strived to do and wanted to do 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:00.480 when I got chance. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.240 So yeah, probably your dad wanted you to pick a 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.720 career with a little less heartbreak in it. I would imagine, 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.240 you know, Rich McKay obviously is who we're talking about here, 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.240 and but for you, you just sort of stayed obsessed 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.200 with it. I think Lucky for you, eventually the team 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.720 that you started working for moved back to the city 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.279 where you went to college, right, So that probably helped. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.040 But in those days, the formative years of you deciding 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.960 your path and what you wanted to do in football, 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.760 that maybe was in some ways similar to what you 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.760 watched your dad do, but in other ways different. Who 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.200 were some mentors that have stood out to you and 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.160 who are some mentors that you sort of stick close 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:43.680 to now? 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.920 Yeah, well, obviously my dad is a tremendous one. But 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.440 when I like think about my relationship with him, it 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.800 wasn't always a football based relationship. It wasn't like we 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.680 were talking about football at the times. And I think 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.600 about it now even like what I bring to the workplace, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.839 Like the things that I've learned from him are totally 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.720 different than football. It's it's how to treat people, how 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.880 to be a good leader, you know, how to just 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.359 be a good person. Like those are the things that 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.159 I embody from him that I found myself using on 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.800 a daily basis. But then, you know, the cool thing 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.360 about working here is I have a number of tremendous 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.400 mentors that have come through this organization. Like I got 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.520 to get started at a really young age here. I 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.640 think I was twenty two or twenty three when I 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.440 got hired, and Less has built of incredible staff over 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.040 the course of the time that I've been here. We've 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.560 had a number of you know, current and former general managers. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:38.560 I mean ran Carthon, Brad Holmes, Brian Xanders, Ray Agnew, 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.080 James Gladstone, all those guys you get to learn from, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.560 take different things from, Emulate things that you'd like that 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.120 you want to take as you, you know, elevate up 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.000 in the profession. And then obviously less is a is 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.440 a huge mentor of mine and somebody that I always 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.719 look up to, and for me, like what he's what 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.120 he's always imprinted on me is like, how can you 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.960 think of about things differently? How can you think outside 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.480 of the box, how can you think about team building differently? 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.760 And are there different ways to do this that that 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.560 we haven't thought of? And how can we make our 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.200 processes get to a point where where we can put 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.360 those things into place and our scouts can feel those 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.279 in a daily basis, both on a on a small 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.160 scale and then a larger scale from a team building perspective. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.279 So he's made a huge impact on me, and you know, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.600 being in a role where I'm in the building for 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.359 the last ten now eleven years, I get to feel 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:33.000 that on a daily basis, and so we're always in 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.960 constant communication, especially in my role now, and it's cool 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.840 to work kind of side by side with him now, 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.800 but also when I first got here, it was much 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.039 more like, hey, just put your head down. My dad 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:44.800 always said, you know, kind of put your head down 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.080 and put your ears up and listen and take in 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.400 what you what you want to do, and and learn 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.599 how to do this thing before you, you know, try 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.360 to do too much. So I've been extremely blessed to 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.599 be in the place that I'm at because between the 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.520 coaches that have come through here in the front office 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.479 executive is, I feel like I've had so many of 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.360 the best people in this business to learn from, and 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:05.960 I'm forever grateful for that. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.120 Yeah, you've gotten to watch them learn each other as 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.320 you're learning them too, which I know is just as 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.160 part a much part of the process for listeners who 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.520 don't know. The RAM staff is very different and has 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.800 been operating as such pretty much since the move from 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.240 Saint Louis back to Los Angeles, where first they were 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.760 in transition, but then now there's a very small number 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.160 of people in the front office and on the personnel 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.840 team that work on site, and so it's sort of 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.560 like a cluster where you guys are in very close quarters. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.120 I mean, this is not a practice facilities joke. You 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.360 guys are in very close quarters all the time, and 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.400 there's a huge number of Satellite people that are very 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:46.920 trusted to sort of be on the road, and then 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.840 obviously the Scouts and the area Scouts and everyone's on 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.800 the road anyway. But in terms of like learning the 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.520 people around you leadership styles, but then also watching them 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:04.800 learn each other, Lesnie extremely individualistic, unique person. I'd be 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:11.440 curious what adjectives you would use. And Sean McVay extremely individualistic, 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:16.800 unique person, also curious what adjectives you would use. Being 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.520 in the room, as those two also learned each other 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:22.520 over the years, what did you take from that? 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.560 You know, I think I think I'm able to learn 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.520 and the people here, we're able to learn so much 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.360 because it is a very open place. Doors are always open, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.360 conversations are always open, and that's unique, and like it 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.120 doesn't matter if you're a Scouting assistant or a pro 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.719 scout or an assistant general manager, Like everyone's voice is 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.160 going to be heard because our staff is small, and 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.559 the people that are at the top positions, like they 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:51.040 want to hear from you and they want to be 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.280 be told the truth. And so I think you're able 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.280 to learn so much more when the doors are always open. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.960 You're not afraid to ask questions. You know, it's you know, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.320 it's all coming from a good place. And also like, 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.439 I think the unique thing is you're able to dissent 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.319 comfortably and say, hey, I might disagree with this evaluation 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.960 to this player, I might disagree with this move, but 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.320 here are my reasons behind it, and know that I 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.080 can dissent comfortably and and not be you know, lashed 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.120 out at, like like who are you to say something 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.560 like that? Like I think that that's a really cool thing. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.440 And then watching the two of them work together is unique. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.840 They're they're like brothers, uh and in ways they know 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.120 how to nip at each other, but they're always in lockstep, 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.800 and they both of them are very good at articulating 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.280 the clear visions of what they value in players. And 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.680 Sean does a tremendous job communicating with our staff like 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.400 this is what we're looking for, and not necessarily from 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.360 always just a skill set standpoint of each position, but 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.080 like what kind of people we want, you know, to 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.199 fill this locker room? And I think the clear messaging 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.240 in the in the constant communication allows all of our 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.320 scouts and all of our front offices and better job 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.160 when we're evaluating players and bringing players in and understanding like, hey, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.080 we're we're going to shop in this in this small aisle, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.520 like we'll let the rest of the league, you know, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.120 kind of take the other ones, but these are the 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.920 guys we're going to be hyper focused on. And you know, 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.920 being together for this many years, like I think that 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.480 that vision has grown even more and more clear, and 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.800 now I think when our scouts go on the road, 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.640 they quickly kind of identify this is a RAM or 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.000 this is not a RAM, and it really gives us 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.760 an edge. But watching those two work together. We have 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.440 a lot of small group discussions and things like that. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.760 They're some of the most fun you can you can 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.320 possibly have as a group of you know, five or 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.360 six of us that are whether it be going through 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.840 the draft process, going through free agency, and then obviously 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.520 using all our scouts on the road, but those small 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.760 film meetings are some of some of the best times, 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.319 best times I could imagine. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.040 We will get to what you touched on there about 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.920 the combination of agility and willingness to take on risk, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.080 because that's a huge trade mark. I think of what 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.640 that building is, and especially that sort of circle of 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.920 trust in the building itself. But first, I think listeners 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.560 when they see your title, they know what your job 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.840 is right by title. But in terms of process infrastructure, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.240 what are some key elements that you can pull back 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.560 the curtain on a little bit about what doing the 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.360 job of the assistant general manager, specifically in the RAMS 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.960 building means. What it looks like, what you have your 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:30.920 hands in at any given moment. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.160 Yeah, I think it all starts with helping build out 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.480 o our scouting process and putting together a clear process 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.520 for our scouts when they go on the road they 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.760 know what they're looking for, and then how they write reports, 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.400 evaluation structures, character structors, things like that. It starts with 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.120 our process, so we spend a lot of time, a 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.360 lot of time doing that. That's a big part of 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.840 Nicole and I's job to, you know, help put Lesson's 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.320 vision into life with our scouts and bring that to 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.360 life so they feel as comfortable as possible on the road. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.599 And then it's a lot of evaluation. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.960 It's an evaluation based building and evaluation based job. So 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:10.680 my hands are in all parts. I would say of 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.400 the evaluation process, both pro and college. 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.120 I'll evaluate every player. 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.680 On the draft board, I'll evaluate a really large number 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.600 of free agents, and then kind of the weekly rhythm 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.840 when you get into the season is a lot of 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.840 evaluation of your own team and evaluation, you know, when 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:29.480 you lose a player and need to sign a player 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.240 to practice squad, how do Matt wan and I are 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.760 pro director, how do we go about bringing those players 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.000 on and with the help of our pro staff. So 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.600 I'm doing a lot of that own rams roster management 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.200 kind of in the season and always making sure you're 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.600 keenly and tuned on your own team. And I think 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.280 that that's given us a big edge is really understanding 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.960 where our own team's at, where our rosters at, where 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.319 can we improve in what kind of guys we need 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.079 to bring in. I think that's a tremendously underrated thing 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.000 when when I look at like team building. So that's 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.880 something I try to stay super focused on. I started 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.360 in the pro scouting side and was there, you know, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.640 kind of for eight nine seasons. I don't really know 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.319 how many, but so transitioning to this role is a 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.360 little different in terms of it's a wider scope and 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.360 it's really staying focused on the draft board and then 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.120 really helping the pro side where I can. 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.160 Yeah, we cover it in chunks, right, Like on the 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.840 outside media, we cover it in chunks. We cover in season, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.920 we cover off season, we cover free agency, we cover 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.600 things in buckets, right, And that's actually not how it 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.240 works in real life. It is an ongoing, constant conversation 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:44.280 and a constant evaluation and sometimes pruning and tweaking your 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.360 roster or seizing opportunity when opportunity does present itself. I 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.280 think I first learned that when I was talking to 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.160 you out at the practice field when I was a 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:57.520 RAMS beat writer about your Kevin Dotson acquisition. And you know, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.280 he's a player that the RAMS and yourself as a 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.280 pro personnel director at the time, scouted for a while, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.480 many many years at the point. So the pre draft 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.400 process melds into the nd season development process, melds into 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.559 the roster building and veteran free agent or excuse me, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:21.440 veteran player acquisition portion that sometimes does happen resource allocation, 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.680 sending the picks and sending what you did for him, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.760 and then coming in the building and how does it work? 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.160 And you know, can you take me through what that 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.640 was like, because to me, Kevin, who's a starting right 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.000 guard for the Rams, is a huge example of how 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:41.720 long and interconnected this entire talent identification processes. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:47.720 Yeah, so we do our pro scouting by position, which 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:49.200 is different than a lot of teams do it. A 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.120 lot of teams do pro scouting by teams. So you 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.360 have a pro scouting staff of three or four people, 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.640 they're going to evaluate a certain amount of teams in 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.240 the league, and then you end up having evaluation on 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.480 the entire league. The way we've decided to do it 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.320 is to do it by position, so we have a 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.800 certain number of scouts being have ownership of certain positions. 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.480 So and that's over the course of the entire league. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.080 Every every guard in the league is evaluated by the 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.560 same person. Every tight end in the league is evaluated 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.480 by the same person. And what we feel like is 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.720 that gives that person true ownership of the position when 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.000 we want to sign a free agent, or make a 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.440 trade for a player, or sign a player off the street, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.640 whatever it may be. So in Kevin's case, Matt Waugh, 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.360 who is our pro director, he's always handled the entire 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.400 offensive line and that was his kind of his baby, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.520 and his was he's the expert on it. So when 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.000 we went through that offseason, we were not able to 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.760 address that guard position adequately. We felt like, and in 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.160 the early parts training camp it became clear like, hey, 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.240 we're gonna we're gonna need a guard. So Kevin is 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.640 a player who had been drafted by the Steelers, played 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.840 three seasons of good football starting starting of a football 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.040 and Matt each season had evaluated Kevin's film and had 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.960 been a big, big fan of his. So when we 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.440 were putting together, you know, potential trade candidates we're looking at, 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.240 We're always putting lists together of guys that may come free, 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:19.000 whether it be a contractual reason, a role reason, whatever 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.360 it may be, guys that we just think might be available. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.760 It was like Kevin really stood out, and Matt was 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.280 the first one, you know, kind of put the list together. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.560 I evaluated him on my own two and we together 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.640 kind of brought it to Less like, hey, we feel 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.320 like this would be a really good candidate to step in. 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.680 So we spent a large portion of the month of 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.920 August that year really pressing Less like, hey, we need 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:41.880 to we need to get this, get this going, and 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.600 you know, letting him, letting him communicate with Omar from 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.400 the Steelers and you know them talk through trade compensation, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.120 et cetera. And it went on for about a month 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.360 and we eventually got the deal over the line. But 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.640 it was a good example of a player who we 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.280 had no reason necessarily to evaluate him. We're on the 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.000 service that he had ever been a free agent. Obviously 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.200 he was still in a rookie contract, so we didn't. 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.159 But we do this process called the non advanced process, 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.639 where you basically evaluate every player in the league that 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.600 was not a team that you advanced scouted for, was 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.880 not a free agent, basically the rest of the league. 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.640 So Matt had done a tremendous job doing the non 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.960 advance evals on Kevin year after year, and then that 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.120 trade is able to come to life. And obviously he's 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.119 been a high level player for him since for us 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.240 since we acquired him, and a big part of you know, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.560 the success we've had in the run game and in protection, 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.000 really solidified the you know, the imperior part of that 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.760 offensive line. But it's really a credit to the whole 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:43.080 process coming together, Matt doing a tremendous job. I mean, 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.520 I'm gonna take no credit, but it filtered to me 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.679 and then it went to the last so we did it collectively. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.480 And then watching him come on the field and you know, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.320 kind of bring some of those things to life in 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.800 twenty twenty three was was awesome. So it was a 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.159 it was a fun one and one that we we 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.480 still like to well, you know, like to talk about it, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:06.200 and it's a good encapsulation of the entire process coming together. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:06.640 Yeah. 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.200 Well, I think there's still a pile of sunflower seed 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.800 shells out on the practice field where you lesson Matt 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:18.600 would stand every single practice into August and September, just 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.679 serving right behind the offensive line drills, just serving the 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.720 work that you had just accomplished by bringing him in. 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.680 And I think to John, one of the things that 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.080 you touched on, but the evaluation of these players that 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.680 you first scout in the draft. And that's where I 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:36.159 want to talk about some of your off season and 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.600 draft season work that you do in your role too, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.879 that stays in your system, jars that you know, listeners 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.040 know I've written about it. I'm not breaking any news here. 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.800 This internal scouting system that you use and basically, the 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.639 more data and the more evaluations you have that you 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:56.120 can keep, that you can basically pingpong other data sets 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.200 off of in your evaluation process when you circle back 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:04.320 around to, hey, we might acquire this player. Sometimes you 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.000 have a full evil that you guys did in completion arguments, 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.960 things that you've talked about. What was that like, maybe 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.760 not even just for Kevin, but you've had players who 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.680 I mean, it's been a year's long process from when 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.120 they were a prospect into maybe when they finally got 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.320 into your building, from the draft and pre draft scouting 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:27.480 process into the off season and preseason work of pro personnel. 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:30.919 Yeah, it's it's really cool, and it's a credit to 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.760 our college scouts because they do a tremendous job putting 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.159 all the information together, and it's it's always funny, like 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.800 we talk after the draft, were like, wow, we did 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.199 all this work on all these players for you know 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:43.800 whatever and maybe eight draft pcks. 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:44.920 I think this year we had six. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.400 But like you do all this work for you're only 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.160 getting those couple players at that time, So it feels like, man, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:52.680 that was a lot of work for not a lot 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.399 of you know, not a lot of payoff. But in 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.919 reality that work is always still a big part of 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.760 what we do and the things that we lean on 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:05.760 on the pro side is things like character, background, injury history, 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.160 things like that. All the data that we're accumulating when 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.159 they're in college is still a huge asset for us 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.159