1 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: He asked them. 2 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: Very lastic, don't get so much to get money gets 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: see us. 4 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 3: Prelude. The first time I heard A Love Supreme, I 5 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 3: was fifteen. I'd ordered it from BMG because my two 6 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 3: older cousins, these vinyl heads, said they like Coltrane, so 7 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 3: I put it in the mix on one of those 8 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 3: eight CDs for the price of one deals. I've listened 9 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: to it so many times since, over so many parts 10 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: of my life. Sometimes it's background, sometimes with focus, but 11 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: it always takes me back to high school. That's what 12 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 3: I'm remembering now, a sunny afternoon, lying on my bed. 13 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 3: The saxophone feels like this quiet call to prayer. The 14 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: rolling bass and piano and drums build this haze for 15 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: the horn to cut through. The notes aren't perfect, they 16 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: stretch across spaces that feel like they're grading, reaching for 17 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 3: something higher, and then falling and working their way back up. 18 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: The musicians start chanting A Love Supreme over and over, 19 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: adding to that haze, and you welcome being called into 20 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 3: that trance. I remember staring at the back of the album, 21 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 3: holding in my hands as I listened, reading over the 22 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: set list again and again, trying to puzzle out the 23 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 3: meaning for myself. Acknowledge resolution pursuance PSALM acknowledgment, resolution, pursuance, acknowledgment, resolution, 24 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 3: pursuance SI. I'm not religious, but something about that structure 25 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: always felt right. Chapter one Acknowledgment. 26 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 4: The Gentleman in the elevator now is a Candid Star. 27 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 3: Decades ago, on a nineteen sixty two episode of Candid Camera, 28 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: the show ran an experiment illustrating group thing. These folks 29 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 3: who are entering. 30 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: The man with a white shirt, the lady with a trench. 31 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: Coat, as an unsuspecting man stands inside an elevator. Three 32 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: people step in one after another, but instead of turning 33 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 3: towards the doors, they all face the back like that's 34 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: a normal thing to do. 35 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: And you'll see how this man. 36 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 4: In the trench part. 37 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: I used to maintain this individuality. 38 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 4: But a little by little. 39 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 5: He looks at his watch, but. 40 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: He's really making an excuse for turning. 41 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 5: Just a little bit more. 42 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: To the wall. 43 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: By the end of the scene, the mark is folded 44 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: to the pure pressure and is fully facing the back 45 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: of the elevator. And it happens so quickly. Of course, 46 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: Candid Camera played the experiment for laughs, but It's based 47 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: on real studies designed by a Polish born Jewish psychologist 48 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 3: named Solomon Ash in the nineteen fifties. Ash's groundbreaking work 49 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: showed how pressure from a unanimous group can cause people 50 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: to conform to things they don't actually believe. I've been 51 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 3: thinking about that a lot recently, because at the beginning 52 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 3: of the show I was told that a significantly longer 53 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 3: life was possible. 54 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 6: I believe it's easy for all of us, without much intervention, 55 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 6: to get over the age of ninety. If you get 56 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 6: to the age of ninety, I think, then in the 57 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 6: middle I'll find things that could extend me beyond ninety. 58 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: Then I slipped into a world where seemingly everyone I 59 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: talked to thought of death as this outdated assumption something 60 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: humans before as had only accepted because we lacked the 61 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 3: tools or imagination to challenge it. 62 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 7: We want to make death optional. 63 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 4: Death is something we've been taught never to question, and 64 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 4: we don't know what a post death future is going 65 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 4: to look like. 66 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: Years. 67 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 6: I believe that when you're twenty years old, you would 68 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 6: go to a longevity clinic and you'll get an infusion, 69 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 6: and basically it'll stunt your aging and you'll come every 70 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 6: year or so for another treatment. This the Peter Pan scenario. 71 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 6: You'll stay young, forever young. 72 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: Before long, I was questioning my position, wondering if I 73 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: was missing something like is radical life extension something I 74 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 3: should be working towards? Could life at one hundred twenty 75 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: five or one hundred and fifty be satisfying? What about longer? 76 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: But there's another part of Ash's psychology work that's perhaps 77 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: more important. If even one person breaks with that lockstep majority, 78 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 3: the pressure to conform decreases dramatically. And that's how I 79 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 3: felt like a man standing in an elevator full of 80 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: death denials, starting to question if I was facing the 81 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 3: right way. When the doors opened and in walked Ailea Arthur. 82 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 8: I want to die at sunset. I want to watch 83 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 8: the sky change and turn orange and pink and purple 84 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 8: as they dive in tonight. 85 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: I first heard Aloa through her ted talk, and I 86 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: was struck by the specificity of it, the way she 87 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: imagined the room where her life would end. 88 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 8: I want to hear the wind fluttering through the leaves 89 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 8: and smell very faintly, not Tampa amber incense, but very faintly, 90 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 8: because scent can be tough on a dying body. 91 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: But it wasn't just that Ailoa accepts her mortality that 92 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: felt radical to me. It was that she expects to 93 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 3: see direct her final moments, just like she encourages others 94 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 3: to do in her role as a death duela and 95 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 3: the founder of Going with Grace. 96 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 7: An end of life planning training and support organization, and 97 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 7: we exist to support people as they consider their mortality, 98 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 7: no matter what they may need along the way. 99 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 3: Aila Arthur is tall and composed. She's got a warm 100 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 3: smile with a gap between her front teeth that's disarming, 101 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 3: and she's stylish. In her ted talk, she wears this 102 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: beautifully structured, bright orange dress. Today on this video call, 103 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: she's a little more casual. Can you tell us a 104 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: little bit about how you got into this work? 105 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 7: About twelve years ago, I was practicing law and it 106 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 7: was not a good fit for me, and I took 107 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 7: a leave of absence where I ended up in Cuba. 108 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 7: And in Cuba, I met a fellow traveler who had 109 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 7: uterine cancer and we talked a lot about her life 110 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 7: and I started asking her questions about her death. 111 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: At that point, Aloa was in what she calls a 112 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: deep depression, and she was trying to find a way forward. 113 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 7: I'd felt, you know, hints of joy again. I could 114 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 7: feel like sunshine on my skin again. I'd done some dancing, 115 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 7: you know. I was starting to feel like myself a 116 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 7: little bit. 117 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 6: Yeah. 118 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 7: And I was also still deeply searching for answer about 119 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 7: this big question about life that I thought everybody else 120 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 7: had figured out. And what I found was mortality. I'd 121 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 7: never even properly considered mortality in any real way. I've 122 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 7: never made the connection between people die and I will die, 123 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 7: and what do I want to do with my life 124 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 7: because I will die? 125 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: So many people I talked to said they hated this 126 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: fairy tale. They told me, you don't need death to 127 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 3: give life meaning. But Alou is saying something slightly different. 128 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: Recognizing that she would die someday brought her life into focus, 129 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: and it pushed her to reconsider what she wants from 130 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: her remaining years. It's a phenomena she sees with the 131 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 3: planners and the terminally ill patience she cares for. Your 132 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 3: missstatement at going with Grace is that you will support 133 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 3: people to answer a question, what must I do to 134 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: be at peace with myself so that I may live 135 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: presently and die gracefully. Have you had really interesting answers 136 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: about how people want to live. 137 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a bunch of really juicy ones, but they 138 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 7: all fall in the authenticity bucket, like what do I 139 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 7: need to do nor to be myself right now? 140 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 3: To be fully myself? 141 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 7: Sometimes it's about quitting jobs or leaving relationships or entering 142 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 7: into relationships, or coming out or moving or having a kid, 143 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 7: or talking about the regrets about having a kid, which 144 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 7: is so taboo that you're never supposed to say, but 145 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 7: people say it when talking about the immortality. 146 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 3: You're always getting tea. I'll tell you what, this is 147 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: the most tea job. 148 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 7: I think, maybe even more than a therapist. 149 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 3: But I'm curious, like, how would our own society be 150 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: different if death were accepted as a natural or even 151 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 3: beautiful part of life. Do you feel like there's a 152 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: reluctance to accept death majorly? 153 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 7: I think that we live still in like a death 154 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 7: phobic and death avoidant culture. I also live in Los Angeles, 155 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 7: and so it's maybe a little bit easier for me 156 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 7: to see. But our obsession with beauty and youth, and 157 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 7: also this obsession with longevity, I'll play into that I 158 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 7: think to be human also is to be fallible, to weaken, 159 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 7: to come apart, to not be this diamond strong substance. 160 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 7: My body is fragile and vulnerable, and that is one 161 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 7: of the capital t truths that folks either deny or 162 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 7: make them too uncomfortable to think about, and so they 163 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 7: try to fix with all types of hacks that just 164 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 7: don't really do anything about it. Yeah, death, death is period, 165 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 7: but also death is built into my body. 166 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 3: I think about my dad's body, the way it unravels 167 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: and halted to a stop in just a few weeks, 168 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 3: the cruel and specific way death was built into it. 169 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 3: But what if your body didn't break down? What if 170 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 3: science came up with a way that you could live 171 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 3: a longer life and keep your health. I was curious 172 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: what Ailoa would say. 173 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 7: If I could live long and healthy till nine hundred. 174 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 7: I wouldn't want that. That doesn't seem like a good time. 175 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 7: And so when folks are really obsessed with longevity, I 176 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 7: would also be really interested in watching them eat an 177 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 7: orange if they knew that it was going to be 178 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 7: the last time that they ate the orange. You know, 179 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 7: you bring so much more intention and pleasure to it, 180 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 7: knowing that this is finite, that. 181 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 4: This is it. 182 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 7: Then if you thought you had a million more to eat. 183 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 3: In her ted talk, Aloa offers this image of her death. 184 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 8: I want to die with all of my affairs in 185 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 8: order loved ones have nothing to worry about but their 186 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 8: grief after I die, I want to die empty, devoid 187 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 8: of all of the skill, gift, talent and light that 188 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 8: I carry in this body, and satiated, full of the 189 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 8: richness of this one unique human ribe. And when my 190 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 8: loved ones notice that I have released my last breath, 191 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 8: I want them to clap. I want them to clap 192 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 8: because I died well. But I died well only because 193 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 8: I lived well. 194 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 3: I picture a boxer who's put every ounce of energy 195 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 3: and effort into trading blows, only to collapse with nothing 196 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 3: more to give. And I want that. I want to 197 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 3: give to my family, fully, to my work, to savor 198 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 3: the oranges in between, and be present for all of it. 199 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 3: And if I have a legacy, it isn't just about 200 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: shows or books or whatever. Because I'm forty seven, I've 201 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 3: had more salt than pepper in my hair for more 202 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 3: than a decade, but I still don't feel like a 203 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 3: grown up in our family. But that's why I want 204 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: to be someone who lifts the next generation of my 205 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: nephews and nieces up and champions their work, someone who 206 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: models that same generous behavior. I've been so lucky to 207 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 3: receive it from generations before me, a link in the chain. 208 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: After the whirlwind of San Francisco and hearing the ways 209 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: people expect to push off their death, talking to Aloa 210 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: makes me feel sane, or at least less alone, because 211 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: it's not that she's saying death is good or that 212 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: we should be grateful for it. She's saying there's an 213 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 3: ending coming, and if you want to die happy, it 214 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: helps to live with purpose, to spill every ounce of 215 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 3: yourself into this world. Until you've shared so much, there's 216 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 3: nothing left to do except be sated by the fact 217 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 3: that you've given everything. I have to keep reminding myself 218 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 3: to live like accounts and I can't waste time. Part 219 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 3: two resolution. Last week, as I was wrestling with my 220 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 3: thoughts about the show, Lizzy pointed out something obvious. 221 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 8: What is the one thing that you haven't done since 222 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 8: all these ones? 223 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what, come on, I. 224 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 3: Wasn't explaining a. 225 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 9: Quiz, Oh you haven't even gone to your doctor your GP. 226 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh. 227 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 3: It's true, and also so humiliating to admit, like I've 228 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 3: done blood tests and run them against biological clocks. I've 229 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: gone all the way to India to do hyperbaric oxygen therapy. 230 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: I've down supplements and green Morning potions, which who knows 231 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: if they do anything. And I've visited so many labs 232 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: and learned so many secrets. But I haven't gone to 233 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: my doctor despite my incredibly high blood pressure, something every practitioner, 234 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: from doctor primus to my dentist to my cousin's sonal flagged. 235 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: The saddest part is it isn't that I haven't tried. 236 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 3: After a decade of hunting for a doctor in New 237 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: York who I actually connected with, who is caring and 238 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: listens and spends time with you, the irony is other 239 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: people found him too, so he's always booked. When we 240 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: last communicated, he told me to take my blood pressure 241 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: every day for a month so we could have a 242 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 3: baseline to discuss and prescribe a dosage against. But when 243 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: I finally collected that data and snagged an appointment that 244 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: worked for his calendar, two months down the road. I 245 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 3: ended up having to travel for work on that day, 246 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 3: and then going to India, and then one thing after another. 247 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 3: It turns out making a show about taking care of 248 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: your body is not the same thing as taking care 249 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: of it. Often it's the opposite. Here's a list of 250 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 3: times I turned in drafts for the show. Episode one 251 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 3: eight thirty six am, an all nighter, Episode two two, 252 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: twenty four am, Episode three, three point fifty am, Episode 253 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: one four three twenty four am, Episode five five twenty 254 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 3: eight am. Those are all weekdays, so I was working 255 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 3: regular hours the next day. Just to show you health wise, 256 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 3: what happened. Four months into making the show, I'd lost 257 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 3: twenty pounds. In the last two months, I've gained back twelve. 258 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 3: My tennis friends are wondering where I got to or 259 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 3: why have stopped texting to hit. Maybe it all comes 260 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 3: down to a question I've been scared to address. Once 261 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 3: you admit your body is vulnerable, what do you actually 262 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: have to do? 263 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 10: I have frozen blood samples, here's the magnet, and here's 264 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 10: a one hundred dollars bill, And he said, I. 265 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 9: Do try to optimize everything within my power. 266 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 4: I absolutely believe that's in my control. 267 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: And I believe that over the past nine months, I've 268 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 3: met so many young longe evonauts, brilliant young people with huge, 269 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 3: ambitious ideas, and each one of them seems to have 270 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 3: a different answer for what to do with a vulnerable body. 271 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: So I've been listening. 272 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 11: From twenty two to twenty five. 273 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 10: I have frozen blood samples, and I have data of 274 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 10: how my plasma proteins have changed and also how my 275 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 10: immune cells have changed. 276 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 3: That's Rob Squoian, founder of a Vita's House, the Longevity 277 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 3: bio Hacking House in San Francisco that NICOA. Poe had 278 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: lived in. Rob someone I adored, partially because he's such 279 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: a sincere guy, Like when he was in college he 280 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 3: spent time volunteering and assisted living homes just because he 281 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 3: liked spending time with seniors and had a real impact 282 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 3: on him. 283 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 11: A lot of these people were still very sharp in 284 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 11: many ways, like their minds were indistinguishable from like kind 285 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 11: of the vitality and energy of a lot of my peers, 286 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 11: but there was this sort of very tragic discrepancy between 287 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 11: these things they were thinking about and exploring and their 288 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 11: physical health. 289 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 3: Rob understands just how vulnerable the body is, so he's 290 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 3: making sure his as well documented. Every few months, he 291 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: collects and stores his blood at a facility north of 292 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 3: San Francisco, where it sits in a liquid nitrogen tank, 293 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 3: waiting for tests that don't yet exist. 294 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 11: There's currently not a lot available that you can do 295 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 11: for your longevity. So having this sort of personal biobank 296 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 11: of my own blood, I can get a lot more 297 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 11: information from the tests that are going to be around 298 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 11: in five to ten years. 299 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 3: It's a message to his future self, reminding him this 300 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 3: is who we were. See if it helps. 301 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 9: There's a lot of things I cannot control within my environment, 302 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 9: so I try to control everything I put inside my body. 303 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 3: Chloe Mango is also twenty five and worried about getting older. 304 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 3: She's a super curious fashion stylist and self described longevity 305 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 3: nerd who runs the Substack Chloe's Lab notes, and in it, 306 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 3: she illustrates everything by hand, a little bit of analog 307 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: in a world of health hacks and peptides. She lives 308 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: in New York, surrounded by exhaust, cigarette smoke, noise, stress, 309 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: and she's trying to figure out how to combat that 310 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: while pulling your family into the journey. 311 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 9: I'm half Congalse and then half Russian. My family doesn't 312 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 9: come from science or medicine, so they understand, but they 313 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 9: don't fully get it. So they'll be like, eat this, 314 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 9: and I'm like, does it have any oil? 315 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 3: Did you fry it? For Chloe, everything is about policing 316 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 3: the inputs I do. 317 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 9: Try to optimize everything that I do within my power, 318 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 9: within my control. 319 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 3: And while she doesn't have the money to live the 320 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: way she wants doing the two million dollars a year 321 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: Brian Johnson treatments, she's doing what she can and starting 322 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 3: young in. 323 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 9: Your twenties, that's what matters the most, because that's when 324 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 9: you're body starts accumulating oxidative stress, and your body starts 325 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 9: accumulating those years and years and years of you know, 326 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 9: negative things that you do to your body, whether that's smoking, drinking, 327 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 9: et cetera, so that when you get to forty, you 328 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 9: won't be in the position as Brian Johnson is. And 329 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 9: you know, imagine if you started when he was twenty, 330 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 9: what would he look like and how even better would 331 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 9: his body be. 332 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: Her philosophy is control what you can control. But not 333 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 3: everyone I met was trying to preserve the body. Some 334 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: were trying to add to it. 335 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 10: Met up with this guy and said, here's the magnet 336 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 10: and here's a one hundred dollar bill, and he said, great, 337 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 10: come on back. 338 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 3: Owen ZOI is another one of these young futurists who 339 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 3: just left me smiling. We spend the afternoon and an 340 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 3: evening together walking around the Brooklyn Navy Yards, where he 341 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: showed me his office. 342 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 10: I run a company called Starsuit. We make skin tight 343 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 10: compression garments for spacesuits and medical device. 344 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. 345 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 10: I've been working on this problem for about nine years. 346 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 3: Wait nine years. How old are you? I'm twenty three. 347 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 3: Owen's been working on making a better space suit since 348 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 3: he was fourteen. It started as a class project because 349 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 3: spacesuits are really bulky. 350 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 10: It's like being inside of a bike tire, is what 351 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 10: it's usually compared to. Getting injuries from working inside spacesuits 352 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 10: is pretty common, and they're just heavy. Dude, these are 353 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 10: not the space suits that we were like meant to 354 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 10: bring into the Cosmos. 355 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 3: Also, Owen is trying to feel as much as he can. 356 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 3: He wants to amplify the experience of being alive, so 357 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 3: he put a magnet in his hand. 358 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 10: I could like feel all of my nerves growing around 359 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 10: the magnet and like watch my brain, like learn to 360 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 10: interpret it as a new sense. 361 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 3: I wonder if I'm too quick to turn down things 362 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 3: that seem unnatural as my body continues to wear down, 363 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: I think I need to stay open. And then there's 364 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 3: Beshoi Padros. 365 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 4: Coaches would always say he's too slow. 366 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 3: Bishoi had leukemia as a child. Chemo saved his life, 367 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: but it also changed his body. 368 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 4: The reason, and it's really hard to explain this to 369 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 4: a child, was really the chemo, you know, and it 370 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 4: crushed me. It killed me because again I was doing 371 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 4: everything right, but I was always the last guy on 372 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 4: those lines. 373 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 3: But he was determined. He realized he had nothing to lose, 374 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 3: that he'd already been through the worst, and so he 375 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 3: started out at the back of the pack and a 376 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 3: spin class and just slowly worked his way up the leaderboard, 377 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 3: learning from all the better athletes around him, and years 378 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 3: later he became the first Egyptian to complete all seven 379 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 3: World marathon majors. 380 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 4: I do know there are certain things that are outside 381 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 4: of my control, But do I believe that I can 382 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 4: take care of myself in a way where I'll be 383 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 4: able to preserve lifespan. I absolutely believe that's in my control. 384 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 3: He show's way of dealing with that vulnerability has been 385 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 3: to push his body until it sings a different song. 386 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 3: So I have answers, role models younger than me, people 387 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 3: who have suggested ways forward, some obvious, some less. Can 388 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 3: storing my blood today help me tomorrow? I mean, if 389 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: you can take a skin cell from a monkey and 390 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 3: theoretically clone it, maybe taking ten minutes to collect my 391 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 3: forty seven year old blood can be helpful to a 392 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 3: future me. I don't know. I'm willing to throw space 393 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: Getty at the wall and away. I just wasn't nine 394 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 3: months ago. I loved the cry of therapy, frozen arm, 395 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: hair and all, and I've changed the way I eat. 396 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 3: I even started seeing a therapist to deal with stress. 397 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: But also, I don't really have to solve aging. I 398 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 3: just have to treat my body with more care and 399 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 3: be sure. I offered a reason that felt more useful 400 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 3: to me than optimization for its own sake. Another one 401 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 3: I've been thinking about a lot since the first episode. Really, 402 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 3: it was his answer to the same question we asked 403 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 3: almost everyone. If it's possible to live forever, would you 404 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 3: want to. 405 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 5: Only if my kids could live forever too. 406 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: Let's try it again. My family is my reason for 407 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 3: sticking around too. It's a reason to put in the work. 408 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 4: I don't have a timeline for what the appropriate lifespan 409 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 4: is for me, but I obviously want to feel good physically. 410 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 4: But I want to be alive so long as I 411 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 4: can be of service to those who need me. 412 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 3: And so after nine months of not completing the assignment, 413 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 3: I pick up the phone and call my doctor. Part 414 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 3: three pursuance. 415 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 12: If you look across BC, two greenland sharks will live 416 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 12: to be five hundred. Giant tortoises will live to be 417 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 12: two hundred. And it's not because they're going for a 418 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 12: daily run, right. 419 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 3: Rainie Romani Klein is a longevity researcher, and it's stunning 420 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 3: how much her name comes up in the space. And 421 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 3: one of the first things I realized as soon as 422 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: we started chatting is that she doesn't sound like anyone else. 423 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 12: I grew up in rural Brazil. My dad's a garlic farmer. 424 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 12: We also try to grow coffee and beans and tomatoes 425 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 12: very unsuccessfully, but garlic finally worked. My mom also kind 426 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 12: of before her time, she would record books with her voice, 427 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 12: so that we would go to sleep listening to Dale 428 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 12: Carnegie and my personal development stuff. Really we must have 429 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 12: listened to How to Make Friends and Influence People about 430 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 12: one hundred times. 431 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 3: Those business books had an impact, and they infused her 432 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 3: with this candy enthusiasm about solving impossible problems. And even 433 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 3: though she's only thirty one, she has had a wild 434 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: academic career. She started by studying international relations, then folklore, 435 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 3: then a fellowship and existential risk at Stanford, and then 436 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 3: she decided that economics were actually the best way to 437 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 3: tell the story of aging, so she designed a PhD 438 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 3: in the quote Ethics, Science and Economics of Longevity. 439 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: The question that. 440 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 12: Animates most of my work today is what does the 441 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 12: world look like in ten twenty fifty years if we 442 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 12: can therapeutically target aging, and conversely, what happens to our 443 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 12: economy into our population if we don't. 444 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 3: But as she looks at work and productivity, she realizes 445 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 3: she can't really make a great economic argument for babies. 446 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 12: Newborns don't work. They also temporarily remove their parents from 447 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 12: the workforce. They very predictably grow biologically old and chronically. 448 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 12: I oh, you know, I'm totally okay with having people 449 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 12: having more babies to them, but I don't understand the 450 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 12: economic argument for it. 451 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 3: Her point is intentionally provocative, but Rainy's born to pick 452 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 3: with babies isn't so much about the cost or the 453 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 3: return on investment, but actually an argument about who we're 454 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 3: prioritizing as a society. She's bothered by the ways we 455 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 3: devalue older populations and talk about them as a burden. 456 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 3: Too many retirees, too much money spent on care. 457 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 12: We have about fifty million people who are dying every 458 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 12: year from a disease of aging. That's a crazy pandemic, right. 459 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 12: I don't quite understand how the rest of the world 460 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 12: doesn't think of that as a pandemic. 461 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 3: And Raini thinks the problem is that we're content to 462 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 3: let old people go. 463 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 12: We tend to think of ourselves as this fungible token, 464 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 12: like you can just, you know, increase birth rates if 465 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 12: what we want is more of working age adults. But 466 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 12: is it better to you know, create more humans from scratch, 467 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 12: or or should be maybe try to prioritize saving the 468 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 12: lives we already have. 469 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 3: The way she tells it is most people don't reach 470 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: their peak earning years until their fifties. 471 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 12: Economically speaking, older adults are far more valuable to the 472 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 12: economy than we've been making them out to be. 473 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: By then, They've spent decades accruing all these skills, relationships, 474 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 3: and knowledge, and just as all of that experience begins 475 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 3: to compound the diseases of aging, take it away. Rainy 476 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 3: imagines a very different world where a person might be 477 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 3: eighty but still healthy enough to keep working or teaching 478 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 3: or caring for other people. 479 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 12: And in that world, she says, we might see a 480 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 12: future where social security is flipped on its head. You know, 481 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 12: today we mostly subsidize the decline of older adults, and 482 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 12: in the future we might subsidize the development of young adults. 483 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 12: That would be I think, a much more exciting future 484 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 12: to look forward to, right, Because if you have someone 485 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 12: who is chronologically aged eighty but biologically fifty, and they're 486 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 12: able to remain in the workforce, and they're able to 487 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 12: maintain their position of power, we will have I think 488 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 12: a moral and even economic duty to subsidize younger adults 489 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 12: just entering the workforce with very little experience. 490 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 3: It's one of the stranger proposals I've heard while making 491 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 3: this show, maybe because it's so unfamiliar and it feels 492 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 3: a little dystopic, like, do we really need an economic 493 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 3: argument to want to reduce suffering? How much work do 494 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 3: we have to put on people? We already live in 495 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 3: a world where plenty of eighty year olds can't retire 496 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 3: and have to work to support themselves, and plenty of 497 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 3: fifty year olds are living in poverty. When you bring 498 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 3: it down to the human level, it just gets a 499 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 3: lot messier and a lot less tenable, because people aren't data. 500 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: As we talked, Rainy showed me a visual model. She'd 501 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: built a slick interactive site. Adjust things like the rate 502 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 3: of aging, access to treatment, the health of things like 503 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: the brain or reproductive systems, and then watch the consequences 504 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: ripple across the economy. With a click of a button 505 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 3: or a shift of a slider, you could see how 506 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 3: many lives would be saved, how much illness would disappear, 507 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 3: how many people could remain independent and useful. Looking at 508 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: her screen, Rainy had taken something enormous and frightening and 509 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: made it more legible. It's a model for the future. 510 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 3: We could plan for adding meaningful years to the ends 511 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 3: of people's lives. It's just life doesn't always work that way. 512 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 12: One of the biggest factors in how long you live 513 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 12: is how many miles you drive for work per day 514 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 12: to work. So, I actually lost my sister in a 515 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 12: car accident yep this year. 516 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 517 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 12: Yeah, she was my best friend the whole world. 518 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. Her sister was just thirty three. We 519 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 3: offered to stop the tape, but Rainy wants to keep 520 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 3: talking to finish making her argument for helping everyone live 521 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 3: healthier for longer. But it's hard to get past the 522 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 3: argument that our life is making death just is a 523 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 3: lot of longevity science depends on life unfolding in sequence, 524 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 3: and it tries to prevent those big four diseases cancer, diabetes, 525 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 3: cardiac events, and Alzheimer's from getting a foothold in your body. 526 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 3: But that same body still has to get in cars 527 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 3: or public transport, it has to cross intersections and encounter weather, 528 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 3: and it'll still run into unpredict circumstances both strange and banal, 529 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 3: the types of things that can end a story too quickly. 530 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 3: Of course, that doesn't mean our chances are equal. Some 531 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 3: people travel on safer roads, have better doctors, they can 532 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 3: afford the longevity treatments that most of us can't buy. 533 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 3: But also they can leave a dangerous neighborhood or never 534 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 3: even enter it. There's something I love about Rainie's Dale 535 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 3: Carnegie inspired optimism, the way she wants to tilt at 536 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 3: windmills and has figured out how to give governments an 537 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 3: economic incentive to invest in longevity, the only kind most 538 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 3: politicians respond to. I do believe Rainy wants to help 539 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 3: people because she wants to lessen suffering, to reduce that 540 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 3: pandemic of age induced diseases. 541 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 12: These are technically solvable problems. We just need the resources, 542 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 12: and we have the resources. 543 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 3: The thing is, while longevity might be solvable getting some 544 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 3: people to stay healthier longer, it also creates new problems 545 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 3: to solve, Like when people live for another twenty or 546 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 3: fifty years, does anyone ever leave the Supreme Court or Congress? 547 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 3: You see it with Putin and She and Mitch McConnell 548 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,959 Speaker 3: and Dianne Feinstein. People in power don't tend to part 549 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 3: with it easily, especially when it's optional. But having people 550 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 3: live longer doesn't just bring up questions of power. It 551 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 3: also brings up questions of legacy. 552 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 5: Philanspy used to be tied up with people trying to 553 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 5: find a way to continue their legacy beyond death. If 554 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 5: you don't need to do that anymore, because you can 555 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 5: literally just keep living. I mean, for one thing, to 556 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 5: people just stop giving. Do they not feel the need 557 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 5: to do that sort of thing because they can handle 558 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 5: their legacy themselves. 559 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 3: And also that's Rodri Davis, the founder of Why Philanthropy Matters, 560 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 3: And he told me something else about the impact of 561 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 3: living longer, how it affects our sense of empathy. 562 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 5: Assume that we do have this stuff, and people can 563 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 5: live to one hundred and fifty, two hundred, three hundred 564 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 5: or whatever. Would a three hundred year old person really 565 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 5: care very much about the lives of people who were 566 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 5: in their twenties or living sort of normal lifespans. Would 567 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 5: there be that sense of empathy that is generally required 568 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 5: to drive people towards philanthropy. 569 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 3: I've been thinking about that a lot recently. How people 570 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 3: used to live forever by putting their name on a 571 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 3: library or an institution, the Carnegie and the Rockefellers. And 572 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 3: if you're living to three hundred, with the possibility of 573 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 3: living more, would you really want to part with any 574 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 3: of your dough, but also the way our species seems 575 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 3: to be splitting, you might be disincentivized to give, especially 576 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 3: when you see others as lesser than or something beneath you. 577 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 5: You know, I could see a situation in which they 578 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 5: did fundamentally see themselves as a different species or subspecies 579 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 5: or something, and it would actually be kind of difficult 580 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 5: to view that person as anything other than totally other 581 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 5: to you and your experience. And in that circumstance, I would, 582 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 5: you know, I'd be concerned that even if there was 583 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 5: a desire to help those people, it would almost be 584 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 5: in the same way that you know, we currently have 585 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 5: care for animals. 586 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 3: The fact is, the great gains in human lifespan didn't 587 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 3: come from personalized medicine for the elite, and it wasn't 588 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 3: like the longevity movements of today, something only worthwhile if 589 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 3: some corporation can sell it to you. The big advances 590 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 3: in lifespan came from collective action. Vaccines and clean water 591 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 3: sewage systems and safer roads, pains against smoking, and public 592 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 3: investments that protected millions of people at once. Yes, there 593 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 3: were factions and roadblocks, but we got through those together. 594 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 3: We did something for all of us, and right now 595 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 3: that feels like an old fashioned idea. Part four psalm. 596 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 3: Looking back at the things I wrote while making the show, 597 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 3: the notes I scribbled, ideas I jotted down, the whole 598 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 3: thing feels like a whirlwind. And I'm still processing fifty 599 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,760 Speaker 3: plus interviews, four countries, two oceans over nine months. People 600 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 3: welcomed me into their space, share their stories, sometimes joyous, 601 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 3: sometimes painful, experiences that shape their visions of the future. 602 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 3: There were people I felt connected to, even if I 603 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 3: didn't agree with them, And there were lessons I know 604 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 3: that because I can sense the shape of them. I 605 00:39:49,200 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 3: just need to articulate them for myself. But also, how 606 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 3: do you close a show where the ending won't be 607 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 3: written for one hundred years? When will we finally know 608 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 3: if these supposed miracles are real? Maybe it's easier to 609 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 3: leave my story unfinished too, the bits I'd hope to explore, 610 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 3: and the scribbles I'd written for myself but now belong 611 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 3: to you. When I visited the Vida's House, the residency 612 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 3: in San Francisco based around Longevity, I've been struck by 613 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 3: this framed collection of thirty five survey responses to one prompt, 614 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 3: I want to live forever. So I want to live forever, 615 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 3: so I can say the stocks. 616 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 7: I want to live forever, so i can see every 617 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 7: flower on earth, so. 618 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 3: I'm motivated by inspiration, not by fear. So I can 619 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 3: meet and love as many people as I can, so 620 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 3: that I can fall asleep in the Tassia's arms more 621 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 3: times than I can count. We Indians talk a lot 622 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 3: about reincarnation, concepts of karma and accepting the suffering of 623 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 3: this life to have a better one in the future. 624 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 3: But I've heard some people talk about reincarnation in terms 625 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 3: that aren't that literal. It isn't new lives, but instead 626 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 3: these little slivers of ourselves, passed down, glimmering vestiges of 627 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 3: our forebears, preserve for generations the way to believe will 628 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:09,800 Speaker 3: continue to be here. I think about that kind of 629 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 3: inheritance and legacy a lot. Am I brave like my 630 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 3: ancestors who were kicked out of the community church for 631 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 3: educating their daughters? I wonder if I've done enough to 632 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 3: stand up for my own kid whose trends outside of 633 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,879 Speaker 3: our little world? Am I willing to sacrifice for what's right? 634 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 3: My great grandfather watched his career stall and his opportunity 635 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 3: to be on the Supreme Court evaporate when he made 636 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 3: one of India's first rulings against the British. I don't 637 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 3: think I've inherited that strong a backbone. Am I a 638 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 3: black sheep like my dad? Someone who used to talk 639 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 3: about his fond memories of a youth well misspent? Am 640 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 3: I diabetes and depression? The twin gifts of my bloodline? 641 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 3: Am I? The mirror of my cousin. My age is 642 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 3: so much more brilliant than me, because I am haunted 643 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 3: by the way he took his life with a beam 644 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 3: in a rope? Am I anyone if the one thing 645 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 3: I truly sacrificed to build, that decade of poor health 646 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 3: and sleep, the life I deferred just so I could 647 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,720 Speaker 3: have a magazine of my own that now only lives 648 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 3: this old articles and aislop. Does a life matter if 649 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 3: all the evidence this sand castle you so carefully crafted 650 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 3: has been washed away? Why is it that when I 651 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 3: go to goa, I keep returning to my grandfather's old 652 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 3: farmhouse or the ice cream factory, where the acres of 653 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 3: mango trees and rose gardens, all of which no longer 654 00:43:51,120 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 3: exist like it's my story waiting to happen again. A 655 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 3: few days after my dad passed, I got this voicemail 656 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 3: from one of my former hosts, the Bollywood Legend, on 657 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 3: a pump care. 658 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: Mangays, my friend, my friend, I am so sorry for 659 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: your loss. 660 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:23,760 Speaker 2: You know, it's. 661 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: Very strange. When I lost my father, I became brave 662 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: and I became. 663 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 3: Him. 664 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: But you will always miss him, and he will always 665 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: be around you. In your habits, in. 666 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 2: Your day to day functioning, in the way you talk 667 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,360 Speaker 2: to your children, you will see him. You will feel 668 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,760 Speaker 2: him all around you. You will see that his habits 669 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 2: are your habits now. In fact, you will remember him 670 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,239 Speaker 2: more now. And that is why I say that he 671 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,320 Speaker 2: will always be around you. 672 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 3: Talking with Rogov, he mentioned that loneliness is as bad 673 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 3: for you as smoking, how prolonged isolation affects your body 674 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 3: like fifteen cigarettes a day. I'm struck by the idea 675 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,239 Speaker 3: that loneliness isn't just a feeling. That the people we 676 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 3: keep close quite literally keep us alive. They're friends. I 677 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 3: wanted to share the show with beloved advisor who fell 678 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,359 Speaker 3: tragically ill just as I was getting started. An old 679 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 3: college friend who backed out of our reunion because she 680 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 3: had cancer. Friends who've lost kids, who remind you that 681 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 3: not all good lives are long ones. But how can 682 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 3: you ask someone to listen to a show about living 683 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 3: forever when grief makes that premise feel obscene. When we 684 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 3: started the show, my producer Mary wondered, if our lives 685 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 3: online have conditioned us into yearning for an endless life. 686 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,279 Speaker 3: There was a time when you get to the end 687 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 3: of Instagram and it would say you're all caught up. 688 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 3: Now we spend our nights staring into a blue light, 689 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 3: seduced by an infinite scroll. And I don't know if 690 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 3: that daily squandering, the vapid way in which we spend 691 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,400 Speaker 3: our time makes us crave more of it, or if 692 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 3: we've just grown accustomed to the absence of an ending. 693 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 3: We debated what to call this show. Do we just 694 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 3: keep it as Skyline Drive? What about the Infinite Scroll? 695 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 3: Should it be called the Lunch Jevons plural or singular? 696 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:11,439 Speaker 3: Or how to Live Forever? Or maybe it was only 697 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 3: ever one thing, just how to live A love Supreme. 698 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:56,360 Speaker 3: Welove Supreme, I Love Supreme, I Love Supreme. Thank you 699 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 3: so much for listening to this season of Skyline. It 700 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 3: is much a privilege to get to make a show 701 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 3: for you, and I feel so grateful that you listened. 702 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 3: And also I'm so lucky that it's my job to 703 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 3: get to work with these wonderful talents, because this show 704 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 3: would not exist without them, Starting with my wife, Lizzie Jacobs, 705 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 3: my tireless cheerleader and our insanely talented showrunner editor EP 706 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,319 Speaker 3: wrangler of voices. A fun fact about Lizzie, she will 707 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,399 Speaker 3: never ever climb a tree with you, but she will 708 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,839 Speaker 3: sit under it and will talk to you while you're 709 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 3: up there. Mark Lotto, the best story editor who not 710 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 3: only pushed the show to be so much better than 711 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 3: it deserved to be, but was also like, oh, a 712 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 3: musical number, I'll work with that. Super producer Mary Philip Sandy, 713 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 3: who is brilliant and funny and also the host of 714 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 3: the legendary indie podcast Let's Talk About Cats. She's the 715 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 3: only person I know who has ever asked a guest 716 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,320 Speaker 3: what their cat's media diet is. Mark Steven Allen, thank you, 717 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,399 Speaker 3: thank you for opening so many doors for us. Mark 718 00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 3: was the science producer on the show. I don't know 719 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 3: how you can convinced people that they needed to have 720 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 3: a conversation with me, but I am eternally grateful. There 721 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,320 Speaker 3: are not enough words to properly express my gratitude to 722 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,720 Speaker 3: the folks who made this show sound so beautiful. Joe Plored, 723 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 3: We gave you an impossible assignment for this episode, and 724 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,840 Speaker 3: I truly don't know how you made it sound so stunning. Also, 725 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,920 Speaker 3: Casey and Anna, thank you so much. Bliss Samsa Zoti Records, 726 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,839 Speaker 3: bot Me Pete Bauer. It is so rare that podcasts 727 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 3: and audio medium have beautiful songs and music in it, 728 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 3: and I feel so lucky that you lent me yours. 729 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Metro Bunshahi are Vox pop genius 730 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 3: who collected all those beautiful senior voices from episode three. 731 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 3: Also thank you to our last minute voice actors, my 732 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 3: nephew Will Cravis, is that your sag name? Zach Goodwin, 733 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 3: Sam Fillian, Megan Detrie, and my cousin aditya Buster who 734 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 3: has now appeared in not just one, but two seasons 735 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 3: of Skyline Drive. Also special thanks to my friend sand 736 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 3: Kola who left us an Easter egg in this episode. 737 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 3: This show is executive produced from iHeart, I'm My good friends, 738 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 3: Ali Perry and Katrina Norvel. Thank you for believing in 739 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,840 Speaker 3: this little show from Kaleidoscope. We've got my co founder, 740 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 3: Ozwa Lishen, Julia Nutter our head of studio, Costas Linos. 741 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,000 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna forget about you, Rachel Strom. It feels 742 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 3: unfair to have someone as good and wonderful as you 743 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 3: and also your trophy husband Rins in my corner. Thank you, truly, 744 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 3: you are both the best. Also, thank you so much 745 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,720 Speaker 3: the kaleidoscoper is here who tolerate me on a daily basis. 746 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,320 Speaker 3: Christy David, Dara Agne, Sheina Calypso al Viney. Thank you 747 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 3: for the beautiful collage art. I love that you came 748 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,160 Speaker 3: out of retirement for this. There are so many of you. 749 00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,359 Speaker 3: I'm trying to wrap this up, but are you gonna 750 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,719 Speaker 3: stop me from thanking the kiddos? I didn't think so. 751 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,400 Speaker 3: So Thank you Henry Ruby, Reese, Liev, Julian Grendel, Lou Baby, 752 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:03,319 Speaker 3: Leon Baby, how Maya, aroun Enzo and Pearl It Tour. 753 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,800 Speaker 3: Also Bob Connell will carry Nikki, Jason, Jerry and the 754 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 3: rest of you at iHeart. Thank you to Shanta and Soub. 755 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 3: Also Donald Jones, who made us insta official as best friends. 756 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 3: John Pollock, who is not tagged in that post for 757 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,720 Speaker 3: some reason, my family in India, my family and the States, 758 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 3: and just one last thank you to my Amma and 759 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 3: my dad Lolitamesh, who I thank my lucky stars for. 760 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 3: I'm Mongishtikatar. Thank you so much for listening. Working out 761 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,719 Speaker 3: makes me feel young. He also told me that some 762 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,719 Speaker 3: younger women have hit on you at the gym. No, 763 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,799 Speaker 3: that wasn't exactly right. 764 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,959 Speaker 11: Well, hit on is a pretty strong. 765 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:56,800 Speaker 5: Shown. 766 00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:57,839 Speaker 11: Okay, that's right. 767 00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 3: That's happened on two occasions.