WEBVTT - Live from the US Open Tennis Championships 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the worlds of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week at iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.400 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well. Earlier this year, our 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.320 Bloomberg team reported on how college athletes were finally cashing 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.040 in on their name, image and likeness, and our next 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.159 guest has some thoughts on that. Yeah, let's bring in 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.159 Richard Kent, legal counsel and marketing consultant at SUNIL. It 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.640 stands for student Athlete, Name, Image and Likeness. He's also 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.560 the author of Inside Women's Basketball and Inside of the 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:51.960 U s Open. He's here with us on site at 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.279 the US Open. Richard, How are you great to join 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:55.720 you guys? Yeah, it's great to have you here. I 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:57.080 want to get to Suneil in just a minute, but 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:58.280 first I want to talk to some of the action 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:00.959 that we're seeing so far here at the Open. Uh. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.760 Some big names are here, but some big names aren't here. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.760 Djokovic and Roger Federer. Roger Federer is my guy. He's 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:10.800 my guy. Okay. He hasn't played in one Grand Slam 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:12.680 this year. He has not. He's playing in the Labor 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.280 Cup in two weeks, which is in London. He's gonna 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.320 play at Basel, which is his hometown tournament, in October. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.360 He may play the World Finals this year. But I'm 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.280 told I don't know how good the information is. All 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.880 four majors next year, a pre limb teach major, like 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.319 in the US Open. It would be Cincinnati, I would think, 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.640 and the Labor Cup once again, which is gonna be 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.639 in Vancouver, Vancouver, I believe, and then retire. I'm told 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.360 that's possible in Bosl. So if you think that this one, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.160 I mean, this is obviously a big one for Serena, 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.000 imagine this next year if it's Federer final. You know, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.920 I had that conversation with two people yesterday and and 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.560 I keep going back and forth on the noise and 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.920 all that stuff. I still think since she's an American, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.720 Serena will be a little louder, a little more boisterous. 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.360 The Serena the crowd just you could see it and 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.919 feel it, all right, yeah, I mean the federal crowd. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.920 Those are the two, you know, Serena Federer, Federer Serena. 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.960 But those would be the two biggest retirements for sure. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.080 How do you think about though this kind of I 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.520 hate to say older generation, because these individuals have been 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.000 playing tennis for decades now at this point are not 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.200 really that old, but they are for the game, right, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.840 we're thinking about the next generation. How do you see it? 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:26.960 And how do you think about who's coming up and 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.519 who are the players to watch? I think tennis is healthy. 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.520 I think Nick Karrios is an unbelievable talent. He probably 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.160 has a better served than to all the people we 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.080 just mentioned. Um. I think he can do Wonders. I 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.600 really like Madison Keys a lot. Wait hold on, but 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.160 Kiros is not on the court. Is not what one 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.720 would say is a good example for sportsmanship correctly correctly 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:49.919 I mean, in fact, yesterday gotten a lot of trouble. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.600 He got in some trouble yesterday. I mean, everything is 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.239 relative in terms of a lot of trouble. But he did. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.919 I watched the video. It wasn't pretty. It was not pretty, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.600 but that's probably Listen. What did he do for those 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.960 who didn't excuse me? Spit towards uh, you know at 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.640 one point and it was totally caught on camera and 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.240 then a lot of f bombs, no other way to 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.400 put it. I think that when he gets a major an, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.519 he will under his belt. I think you'll see a 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.320 different demean maturation. I think so. I think that would 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.840 be the maturation process. Yeah, Timmy used to swear a 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.200 lot when you started out in journalism, or so I heard. Actually, intendant, 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.320 I mean tennis, tennis just messes with your head. I 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.040 was a college a tennis my whole life, college player, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.320 and it's really one of those sports that the intensity, 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.640 you know, it really messes with your head. It's just 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.080 you just you out there. So let's talk about what 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.200 you do with the Neil Sure. We My partner and I, 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:44.720 Jason Belzer, who's a lawyer in New Jersey, recognized about 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.480 a year before the U. S. Supreme Court decided nine nothing, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.720 think about it. Nine nothing they couldn't decide that today's Thursday, 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:55.360 nine nothing, but they decided nine nothing that student athletes 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.280 are gonna have rights. They have the right to get paid. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.920 College coaches like Nick Saban make twelve million year. Coach 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.440 k who has you know, retired at Duke, was making 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.120 nine million a year, and Mark Emritt, who did next 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.040 to nothing as the n C Double A president, was 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.680 making three point five million. So Brett Kavanaugh, when he 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.560 was skewing the n C Double A lawyer, I listened 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.200 to the argument on c SPAN. As a matter of fact, 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.480 he was just apoplectic about this. And he's a guy 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.280 I actually kind of remembered, or maybe I'm making it 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.039 up in my head, that played JB basketball at Yale. 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.040 So he's got a sports background. So that makes it 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.560 more sympathetic or sensitivity, if you will, to this issue. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.880 I mean, I don't disagree. I mean, these colleges and 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.040 universities between the sports rights right for all the streaming 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.880 services are broadcast, they're making tons of money off of 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:44.440 all of this, and then you have the athletes who 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.720 are actually the reason why they're all making money. Well, 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.160 let's take Carol arch Manning. Okay, arch Manning steps on 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.120 the University of Texas at Austin's campus in September, a 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.640 year from now. The number that I'm hearing between ten 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.039 and fifteen millions that he's gonna be paid, not not 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.320 an alum sum check pay for players. Taboo. There's thirty 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.760 eight states that have legislation. By the way, I'm working 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.440 with Centator Mansion's office and tub not. I haven't worked 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.599 at Tubberville, but he's co sponsoring yet on federal he 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.279 was a coach at Arburn of course. Yeah. Uh, and 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.480 and they want very much for there would be federal 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.440 legislation for uniformity purposes, so that University of valid so 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:29.040 that Alabama does not trump no, no pun intended. Let's 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.400 say Michigan because they have a more Alabama is a 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.200 very liberal and I l policy. We'll just think about 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.840 the rich teams, right or whether it's baseball or whatever, right, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.080 that have had really deep pockets, right, And there's been 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.080 kind of some rules to make sure that it's much 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:44.720 more even in terms of the playing field, right, in 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:46.920 terms of biding for for players, and you shouldn't be 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.720 like that on the college level. Yeah, but there's never 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.840 gonna be a salary cap with college athletics. There's been 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.880 eight to ten lawsuits that have been brought since the 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.120 Austin decision, and each time the court decided in favor 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.240 of the student athletes. So there's no I don't see 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.280 a cap coming. Okay, really quick, thirty seconds. What would 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.160 you say to someone who says, Okay, I'm worried about 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.400 the purity of college athletics. Now I'm worried about the 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.640 purity of college athletics as well. What was under the 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.919 table once is now on the table? And is it 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.880 totally pure? No, we try to make it pure at Sunil, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.560 But listen, we we can't police everything that's going on 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.600 at every school that we're doing business with. How do 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.479 you police? At twenty seconds? Hopefully the n C double 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.400 A will finally uh step in and do something, have 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.839 an enforcement arm that's looking at this thing instead of 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.960 completely abdicating, which is what it did. Yeah, I mean, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.400 does it feel like it's just a matter of time 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.760 that there's going to be something that goes wrong? We're 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:39.400 in the wild West right now. Those those are the 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.200 words I use with everybody, So I don't Will there 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:42.880 be a point in time? Yes, if we're sitting here. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.400 In three years, I think it'll be fully regulated. So 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.440 glad you stop by. I'm glad you have me. Yeah, 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.640 Richard Can't Legal council, marketing consultant at SNIL, author of 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.440 Inside Women's Baseball Basketball, Yes, and Inside the US Open. Right, 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.200 you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:04.040 Bloomberg Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, some headlines 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.960 yesterday the U s f D A okay, the Omicron 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:11.920 COVID nineteen booster vaccines from Maderna, and the Fizer BioNTech combination. 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.280 So it made me think, Tim, Okay, do I now 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.480 have to go get another shot? That's a really good 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.560 question because you just had COVID, you know, a few 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.720 months ago. So we have a perfect guest to help 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.160 answer that question. Dr David Dowdy is infectious as he's 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.760 epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.160 the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School Public Health that is supported 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.560 by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.280 Dr Dawdy joins us this afternoon on the phone from Baltimore, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.360 Dr Dowdy, How should we figure this out? I mean, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.360 I actually for people who have been listening all week, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.920 this is my first day back at the office. I 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:44.280 did go to the office today, but the first day 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.320 I was allowed out because I was quarantine for eleven days. UM, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.040 I'm probably still testing positive. I don't know. But do 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.440 I go care as Carol moves away from me? Do 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.040 I go and out and get this uh this booster 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:56.560 now that it's available, or do I have to wait 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.360 a few months? Yeah, yeah, so so great question, Thanks 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.760 so much for having me UM. And the answer depends 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.840 on on who you are and your you know, your 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:09.280 immune system, UM, if if you have a weaker immune system, UM, older, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.320 et cetera, I would prioritize getting the booster. UM. Maybe 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.080 not within a month of getting infected, but you know, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.640 after after GT two or something like that. UM, if 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.560 you're if you're healthy, UM, you know, you can probably 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.360 wait for a little bit. It's probably not a bad 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.760 idea to wait for for two to three months until 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.520 after UM, you know, after your body kind of recovers 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.640 and resets and and it's ready for another, uh, you know, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.840 another dose. I guess, yeah, I think I'll have to 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.760 wait a little bit. Hey, Dr Daddy, how should we 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.040 be thinking about these boosters? Because if you were talking 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.320 to me, you know, two years ago, the beginning of 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.679 my own infectious disease epidemiology career on Twitter, uh, at 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.120 the beginning of the pandemic, UM, I would say, Okay, well, 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.160 the vaccine is supposed to prevent us from actually getting 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.680 sick or getting infected by these things. But what we've 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.280 learned over the last year and a half is that 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.960 as different variants have emerged, the vaccine wasn't necessarily due 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.040 what a lot of us thought it would do, right, 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.040 prevent us from actually getting COVID and even getting sick. 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:06.439 But I didn't go to the hospital. You go to 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.520 the hospital, thank you, exactly right. We didn't go to the 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.320 the hospital, and we weren't very sick. In the greater 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.880 scheme of things, is this booster going to prevent us 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.760 from getting infected or is it going to prevent us 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.360 from getting very sick? Yeah? No, I well I think 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.120 you've you've put it exactly right. Um. These these vaccines, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.200 even the initial vaccines, are very effective at preventing us 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.120 from getting very sick. UM. But they're not effective at 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:32.360 all against getting infected. I think that the idea is 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.000 that this new shot will for a period of a 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:41.080 few months at least um provide some protection against infection. UM. 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:42.920 And so the idea is that if you get this 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.720 booster now, it will give you at least a few 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.640 months of protection against infection, and maybe that will be 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.640 enough to get us through whatever winter surge may or 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.719 may not be coming. I mean, do we need to 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:02.480 be thinking about this, um Dr Dowdy as as the flu, Like, 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:06.000 can we equate it with Okay, I'd like to get 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:07.440 a flu shot, but I don't feel like I have 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.200 to get a flu shot every year. I do it 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.520 because I think I do get it. I do, but 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.840 I'm just saying I'm always like, well, if I miss it, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.200 I'm just going to get the flu. Is that we're 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.800 we're getting to with the COVID, the COVID with COVID 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.600 and COVID variants. Yeah, So once again, I would kind 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.800 of say, this depends a little bit on your your 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.280 underlying immune system and those around you. Right, So, if 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.080 you're again a generally young and healthy person, it's probably 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.640 not not unreasonable to think of this kind of like 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.360 a flu shot, but for people who are older, who 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.000 have compromised immune systems, and their family members and people 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.040 who come into contact with them. This is not just 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.360 the flu um and I think you we have to 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.520 to be a little bit more cautious still, but Dr 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.280 Daddy Carroll brings up a really good point, and it's 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.680 the idea of treating this akin to the flu. And 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:57.960 you know, not everybody gets a flu shot. In fact, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:10:59.600 I believe the latest day they say that it's not 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.400 even don't end up getting the flu shot. Uh, are 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.560 you worried that people aren't gonna get this booster? They 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.120 have kind of maybe fatigue. After all, not everybody got 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.000 or even close to everybody got the most recent booster. Yeah. Well, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.440 I think I think it's a given that not everybody's 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.560 gonna get this booster. I think this is really about, um, 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.800 you know, trying to plug as many small holes as possible. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.800 Recognize that no one thing is going to be a 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.280 silver bullet, right and so um you know, if we 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.439 if we can get thirty forty of the population to 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.320 get this booster and to have that protection for a 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.840 few months against getting infected with most recent variants, then 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.440 then that might be enough to to take the edge 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.760 off of um whatever we're going to see this winner 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.360 say Dr Daddy twenty seconds, Are you still thinking about COVID? 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.320 Are you thinking about the next virus that really takes 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.240 us down just very quickly? Uh? Still thinking about COVID. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.040 I think it's a little too early to think about 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.880 the next virus. But um, but yeah, I think well, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.040 to see what's the future, hold fingers crossed. Dr David 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.760 Dowdy over at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:11.959 and Infectious Disease epidemiologist. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:17.439 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.640 The new issue of Bloomberg Business Week it is out. 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.000 This week's remarks in the magazine also happened to be 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.000 the issue's cover story. It gets into President Biden's sweeping 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.440 package of student debt relief, and as Bloomberg Opinion editor 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.479 Ramash Ratnesssar writes, how the bailout doesn't address the fundamental 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.040 problem of really what's going on? Let's get more from 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.120 her mass joining us on the phone from our Washington 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.280 d C Bureau he's a member of the editorial board 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.000 covering National Security, education and immigration, a former State Department 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.800 official and public diplomacy, and the author of Tear Down 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.320 This Wall, a City of President, and the speech that 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.559 ended the War. Much great to have you with us 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.920 this afternoon. UM, I've been thinking a lot about this. Uh. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.040 You know, this decision came last week and it created 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.400 a lot of tension, I think online there was a 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.559 lot of debate about it. And one thing that I've 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:03.920 been thinking about, and I'm so glad that you wrote 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.080 about this, is the fact that it doesn't fix the 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.440 problem at its core, which is that education in the 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:14.680 US is so expensive. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.920 you know, I don't want to understate, UM, you know, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.040 the impact that loan forgiveness is going to have for 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.600 you know, a lot of Americans. You know, particularly you 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.680 know the people who um, you know, we're on pell grants, 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.400 received pell grants. So these are low middle income UH 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.760 students you know, who are in many cases going to 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.760 see their their debts completely wiped out. That's life changing 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.079 for a lot of them. But you know, the the 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.800 underlying issue remains, which is, UM, we have a system 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.000 in which you know, in order to have a good 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.800 paying career. UM. You know, people feel they need to 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.600 go to college, whether that's two years for four years, UM. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.479 And for an increasing number of those people full UM, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.640 the gains of going to college UM just don't match 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.160 the costs of doing so. And that's what's putting them 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.040 in a position where they are leaving with debt that 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.040 they can't repay. UM and UM, you know that's what 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.440 caused us bigger crisis. So forgiving debt, it's going to 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:24.360 help some people, it doesn't really solve the problem. You're 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.080 preaching to the choir. I gotta tell you, Tim and 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:27.760 I talked about this all the time. He's got a 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:29.800 little one, I've got a daughter who's just starting your 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.880 sophomore year in college. I am blown away by what 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.240 the cost of college is the range, and I look 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:39.160 at some of the numbers in your story, UM, remission, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.000 I'm like, what schools are you talking about? Because most 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.000 of the schools that we've looked at were starting it 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:50.280 from sixty POL all the way up to UM and 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.000 even so called one. But even public schools kind of 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:59.400 your top tier, it's dollars easily. So how do we 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.480 how did we get here? Because schools say, we'll wait 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.200 a minute, We've got to attract teachers, we've got to 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.680 attract facilities. I want my daughter to learn. I don't 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.720 really care if it's the newest gym that she's playing in. Yeah. Well, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.520 you know, there are a lot of factors. UM. You 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:18.640 know there is UM very certainly, there's been under investment 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:24.960 in public institutions really beginning with the Great Recession. UM, 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:30.880 and the bargain has flipped. Whereas government for a long 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.640 time basically picked up most of the tab of the 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:38.840 cost of college UM. Now that's been basically um uh 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:43.200 flipped over to families. UM and UM. The student loan 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:49.720 system exacerbates the problem because basically it provides a subsidy 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.240 to institutions and removes any incentive for them to lower 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.040 tuition so that people can afford it. Because you can 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.760 just take out federal student loans at the federal government 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.960 cover um and UM institutions. You know, colleges don't really 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.520 have to have no skin in the game. UM. And 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.680 what we have seen, yes, but in order to attract 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.640 um uh students, UM, they have invested a lot of 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.560 money and UM, you know, improving the student experience and 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:23.440 amenities facilities, not necessarily instruction and research UM. And that's 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.440 all UM contributed to driving up these costs to the 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.160 levels that we're seeing. Yeah, the food at my college 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.760 was really good, was it? Oh? Yeah? And like my 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.960 parents were like, this is ridiculous, Like why why why 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.440 is this food so good? Well, it wouldn't I will say, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.760 you know, taking my daughter back this week and they 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:44.720 you know, built out a new facility and they're doing 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.160 a lot of work. And part of me was like, oh, 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.480 this is great that they're investing, you know, uh in 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.480 the school. But I also just you know, what's the 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.359 justification for tuition costs and college costs you know, outpacing 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.800 inflation by a mile? Yeah, I mean basically, you know, 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.960 out paying virtually every other service in our economy, you know. 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:06.760 I think one thing that's important to point out is 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:11.680 that for UM students who attend the most selective colleges UM. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.640 So these are colleges that that except less than fift 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.000 of applicants UM. But it's a very small percentage of 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.920 the overall student population. The return on investment over your 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:26.159 lifetime is still pretty good. It's still probably gonna be 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.040 worth your while if you get a degree from one 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.480 of those institutions. The problem is they that's not where 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.959 most people are going to school. And UM, what you 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.320 have is the vast majority of Americans who are going 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:44.159 to colleges in programs UM that just are not delivering 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.879 that return. And even worse, a lot of a third 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.280 of people who enroll in college never get their degree 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.680 to begin with UM. And it's really that cohort that 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.600 UM is sort of the at the heart of the 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.320 crisis of of student loan that we'll re mestion. What 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.480 I really like about your piece is that it ends 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.280 on you know, I don't necessarily want to say optimistic, 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.240 because there's a lot that has to get done for 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.640 this to improve. But the word you use as aspirational. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.159 And let's say that members of Congress got along with 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.320 one another and that everyone's on the same page when 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.000 it came to higher education, and they had the ability. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.760 But I guess my my real question is, you know, 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.919 if you could wave a magic wand and fix this, 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.960 what would that look like. What's that aspirational element that 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.359 you thought you write about. You know, I think the 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.840 big thing that needs to happen if there needs me 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.200 more innovation in the system. UM. Consumers need more choices. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:50.840 The old traditional UM model is just not working for 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.240 enough students and so UM, you know, we are way 0:18:55.280 --> 0:19:00.639 behind other countries when it terms it comes to apprentice ships. UM. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.719 You know, work based training programs, UM, the kinds of 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:10.040 things that give people an alternative to having to go 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.600 to you know, four year universities try to get a 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:19.400 bachelor's degree of unclear value. UM. We need more uh 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:24.399 post secondary programs that are really geared towards giving people's 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.840 skills that they can take to the marketplace right like 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.040 they do in Europe. I always kid everybody Remesh when 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.119 I'm on air, but I'm I'm like, I remember, uh 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.680 my Plumber, I talked about this all the dip Plumber 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.000 electrics and I can't remember. But I had so many, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.199 so many investments in real estate, like retired early was 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.800 just making so much money. And as a society we 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:50.560 don't value but why not, because um, they make good 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:57.560 living and and they're highly skilled. Rights have gotten so 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.080 much more expensive. It's remarkable, mesh, UM really thoughtful story. 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:02.840 And I feel like one that we've got to figure 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.440 out a better way in terms of what this cost 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.280 from rotten Sorry, he's editor of Bloomberg Opinion and joining 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.080 us on the phone from our bureau in the nation's capital. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.160 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Carol Master and Tim stinebec. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.440 We are live from Flushing Meadows, New York at US Open, 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.080 and you're listening to Bloomberg Radio. It's gonna cost you 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:28.240 three million dollars to send your kids to school. You're 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.159 listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:37.560 Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. Alright, Yes, indeed, 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.920 Bloomberg Business Week. We're live at the US Open, UH 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.080 and the Billy Gy and King Nashville Tennis Center here 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.439 in Queen's It's really a mecca for tennis fans, you know, 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:47.920 that one that continues to evolve to support the player 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.000 and fan experience, and tim that often means renovations and 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.800 building and new in Our next guest understands that process 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.159 really well. Yes, said David Off, his founding partner at 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.960