WEBVTT - Redemption w/ David Keith 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.439 Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.240 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.280 vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:10.720 These are our stories. 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:31.800 Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, your 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:33.920 favorite Law and Order SVU podcast. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:35.800 I'm Kara and I'm. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.280 Liza, and we talk SVIE crime, We talked to celebs. 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:44.520 It's really a podcast that has everything. I'm back from 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:50.440 my fantastic week alass week. But I mean, I actually 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.800 just saw something terrible on the internet. I don't even 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.200 know if I want to talk about it, but that 0:00:55.280 --> 0:01:00.720 the fucking White House posted like people getting arrested and 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.520 deported and made it an ASMR video. They're like lol 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.160 ASMR and it's like people getting shackled, searched and put 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:10.640 on a plane. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:11.600 Oh my god. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.680 Yeah, And I went to make sure it wasn't fake 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.120 or AI because it's like, are you like, I mean, 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.880 every none of it is real, But it's like. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:23.160 What the fuck? 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.920 Yeah, the course is so long gone, We're so long gone. Yeah, 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.039 the cruelty is part of it. It's the point, you know, 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.280 like it's fucked. We're gonna do I just like, but 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.000 we can't heavily drink because we can't handle it anymore. 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:38.720 I mean, I don't know what, you know. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.399 I it's like when you were when you were not 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.640 feeling good last week, Like it just reminds me of 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.640 the time that we went out one of like the 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.480 first nights that I feel like we were all going 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.480 out like after COVID and I. You just kept buying 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.240 shots and I just kept being like, gotta drink these shots, 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.120 gotta keep up. And then our friend that we were 0:01:58.120 --> 0:01:59.560 with later told me that she was throwing all the 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.280 shots and I was like, we were like, I was like, 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.760 I I threw up and I felt like asked. 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.000 But I'm also mad that our friend couldn't just be like. 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.600 For me, I know, I see, you know, I can't 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:16.480 see that kind of waste of money, Like I had 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.080 to take them. I was like, I'm not she bought them. 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:23.560 I'm not gonna like not take them. But anyway, Uh, yeah, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.960 it's kind of the darkest thing I've ever seen. 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.120 Yeah. Fuck, I don't know. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.880 I don't know what our uh, I don't know what 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.200 our recourse is right now, but I know a lot 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.520 of you are feeling the same way as US so. 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.680 And then it's like the articles are like sparks backlash, 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.079 Oh my god, and it's like, no, it's not bad. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.480 This is like the people that like it like it. 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:53.160 I don't know, it's not Yeah, who cares about backlas? Like, 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.160 I don't know, it's just backlash is so minimal and stupid, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.000 Like why would you write about that? There's no backlas, 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.760 Like nothing's gonna happen, there's no checks and balances. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.000 I know, there's like a thing because like I saw 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.040 some tweet about impeachment and I was like, can we 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:08.400 even do We can't even do that. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:09.920 We can't do it, but we need to. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.160 We'll just we need to take the midterms in two years, 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.480 so hopefully we're working on that. I don't know really 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.760 who's in fucking charge anywhere, though. I don't think we're 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:23.919 gonna get there. I think once putin and try, I mean, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.480 we can't. Let's just talk about sn L fiftieth. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.000 I don't know. I know Hunger Games, we're in the 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.680 Hunger Well. 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:36.320 I have literally have it saved on my DVR, but 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.000 haven't had a chance to watch it yet. It's like 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.320 so long, but I've obviously been checking in on the clips. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:42.800 It's so cool. It's so fun. 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.240 Like I have a couple of friends that were there, 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.960 and I'm like, I can't wait for you to tell 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:47.680 me about it. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.440 Like I just think it's like cool. Like I don't know. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.720 Some people hate SNL. My husband doesn't like SNL. I 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.960 love it. I watch every week. I record every episode 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.720 and watch it, and I think it's fun to see 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.440 all these people come back and like get into these 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.080 old characters and do that shit, and to also just 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.800 talk about like the little behind the lines, yeah, and 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.840 the behind the scenes of like how they came up 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.200 with shit, and like I like that. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:14.360 I think it's so funny. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.320 But what were your I mean, I was watching some 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.400 clips of like Meryl Street playing Kate McKinnon, you know 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.160 that the pervert that always gets like abducted. 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.240 That was making me laugh. You know. That was her 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.359 SNL debut. She's never hosted. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.520 Wait what, that's nothing. You've never had Meryl Streep because 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:36.240 she seems very fun. 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:37.280 I don't think she wants to. 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.440 I think kind of the smart and short thing has 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.400 really brought a new side of Meryll out. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:43.200 Yeah, I'm really. 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.880 Into them kind of out and about being silly. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:48.279 Me too. 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:53.360 I'm loving that and I'm excited by their their relationship. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.600 I really like the way Drew Barrymore looked. I didn't 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:57.240 watch it. I've just been looking at all the like 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.280 clips and fun stuff and like, I'm just in a 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.040 Bravo haes. Like I said, I slimly watched White Lotus yet, 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.000 but I did watch Yellow Jackets. I did watch the 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.400 two the premiere episodes of Yellow Jackets. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.680 Oh it was two because I started one. I'm halfway 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.040 through the first one. Yeah, there's two, but I didn't 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:15.400 know it was too you know. I had to fucking 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:19.200 upgrade to Paramount Plus. It changed my whole I had 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.240 to get Paramount plus showtime. I changed my whole billing cycle. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.760 I got like a partial refund. It was crazy, but 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.840 really quickly back to Merrill. A little bit of fun 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.919 local interesting information for you. Was I think I've mentioned 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.960 before I've been to an event, a children's party event, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.760 where Meryl Streep was present. I went to that same 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.080 event this year. She was at SNL fifty, so she 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.760 was not there, but I did. I did speak to 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:48.320 her son, who is buying the york A bar that 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:49.680 we used to go to all the time when you 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.560 lived in La and turning. 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.720 It into part venue, part bar. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.760 And I was like, you gotta let me help you 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.000 find a good comedian to run a good comedy show there, 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.080 and he was like, totally. So I'm gonna try to 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.960 get some comedy going at the York when. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.640 It's because they're in room, it's not that bit or 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:07.120 outside the other side. 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.239 Gonna they'll do it. I think they're gonna like trash 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:11.560 the like bar in the center. 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.159 Like I think they're gonna do like a bifurcated like 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.279 spot and change the whole like layout. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.919 But I don't know. It's not gonna be ready for 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.200 a while. He's like, probably not till next year or something. 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.760 But I'm exciting because I will say I love that 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.360 place and I used to go there all the time 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:31.080 pre pandemic, but they have the quality has to Last 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.400 time I went there, it felt like the heat was 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.000 off and we were just. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.359 Not only that, but it's like change the menu. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.320 It's been years, like again having a few staple items 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.920 like have your Caesar, but like all right, like just 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.560 nothing ever changed or was that good And it's a 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.800 lot of good memories, but that's it. Like, yeah, the York, Yeah, 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.640 but I guess it's gonna be a venue yeah across 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:56.560 from the Goldfish. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:57.960 A real war. 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.480 Totally, and like there's all kinds of wars because Belle's 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.240 is a bar. Now, I mean, this is we're just 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.880 talking local now, We're just talking local commerce in Liza's 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:12.360 old neighborhood in my current but listen back to SNL fifty. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:14.840 I was a little bit surprised that Ryan Reynolds made 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.840 that little joke. Yeah, I don't know. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.400 I someone was just like, I don't know if my 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.160 wife was a sexually assaulted at work, I don't know 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:26.760 if I'd be making little jokes about it. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.800 That's what I mean. That's what I mean. 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.560 This is a multimillion dollar lawsuit that could destroy her career, 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.520 the other guy's career, whatever. And like, well, Bethany, I 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:37.920 watched a Bethany TikTok. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:38.800 I watched Bethany. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.000 Bethany is Bethany has a magnifying glass up to her 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.559 eye and is like a private eye for this fucking case. 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.920 She's talks about it so much I don't even follow her. 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:48.920 She like pops up in my for you page being 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.920 like and another thing about bal Downy, like. 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:52.760 You know, she's like always in it. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.560 She says, it's like everyone that's a who's who in 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.440 Hollywood was there. So to them, it's not it's about 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.320 solidifying like these people like me, like I'm in with 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.280 this crowd like these because if all these people are 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.320 okay with me, then everyone's okay with me. So it's 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.000 that and I need to make a joke so that 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:17.240 everybody's positive. I was there and it's like a full yeah, wow, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:22.080 I guess. And then Bill Hayter wasn't there. No, Stefan, 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.239 Bill Hayter wasn't there. Oh, I was really looking forward 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:27.520 to us. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:27.880 I said. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.680 It was like scheduling, but it's like, no, it's on 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:32.480 a weekend. I feel like he didn't want to. 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.319 Go interesting, interesting, Interesting. 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.480 He did a pre taped thing, but I heard I 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.559 once said he's like he didn't love his time there, but. 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:44.800 Still seems like some of you would. I was. 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.560 I think I've told this before, but I was working 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.360 at SNL when he did his first show and it 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.240 was him and Andy Samberg and I met them at 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.960 the after after party and they were both like, how 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:55.559 do you guys. 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:55.839 Think it went? 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:57.920 We were like, you guys were great, Like we were 0:08:57.960 --> 0:08:59.920 like the Pages and we were like hyping them up, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.640 you know, because we didn't know that they were going 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:04.480 to go on to become like two of like the 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.280 big ones, you know, and we were just like, you 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:07.040 guys were awesome. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.080 And I think Bill Hater made out with one of 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:11.640 my friends. 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.319 Yeah, so what did you guys do in between when 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.520 everyone went to the after, like to the after after all? 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:19.679 What would you do to kill time? 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.320 You've been to SNL, so you've probably seen the Pages 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.240 are in their uniforms and they now they wear Brooks 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:27.920 Brothers cute gray uniforms. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.800 We wore navy. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.439 Dresses from Casual Corner with navy tights and navy shoes 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.080 and a navy blazer and our little pins and like 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.120 we called them our blues. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:39.520 Like that was like you had to get in your blues. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.360 So we would go to someone's apartment, get out of 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.720 our blues, get into our tube tops and like whatever 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.320 and start pregaming because you had to like start drinking 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.840 because the show gets over at one. By the time 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.840 you're done whatever, you're getting to someone's house at two, 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.240 But like the after after is not really getting rocking 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.920 into like three p thirty, so like we would be 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.760 like we got to go like get catch up and 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.320 and and be also not spent. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:03.640 We were making ten dollars an hour. 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.240 We don't want to spend a ton of money at 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.120 like you know the bar, so and listen were the 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:10.000 bars open bar? 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:10.840 I don't remember. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.480 I would assume they would have been open bar, but 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.559 maybe not for us randoms. But you always had to 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.719 have a password. You'd have a password to go get 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.720 into the after after, and like whoever was the SNL 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.200 page would find out because we were there'd be like 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.839 three dedicated SNL pages, like I was the cone In 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.920 dedicated page, and then there'd be three SNL dedicated pages 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:29.840 and then the rest of us. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:30.559 Just worked the show. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.360 So the main pages would like tell us like here's 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.960 where it is, here's where you go. And I absolutely 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.800 requested all I want for Christmas is you in April 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.080 at a couple of those parties, you know, so we 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:43.760 made our mark. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.520 Uh, but yeah, it's it's fun. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.959 Like I had a blast, like to be able to 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.360 even stand in the studio. One time Jeff Zucker tapped 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.719 me on this on the shoulder and goes, how did 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:58.360 this do it at dress? This sketch and I go, great, Like, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.559 what am I going to tattle on us and tell 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.960 you that the sketch bombed a dress like I was like, Oh, 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:03.520 it was great. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.920 It was so funny. I don't know who that is. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.880 He was thee he was the CEO of NBC and NBCUniversal. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:14.400 He was like the headhead like so I was like that, 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.240 and then he went on to start to see it 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.200 and then he went on to run CNN and now 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.040 I think I don't know, he's maybe been canceled. I 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.320 don't really know what's going on with him. But yeah, 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.040 my time at SNL was so fun. But I was 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.840 just a little worker bee and I can't Yeah, I'm 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.080 excited to watch the long show. And the clips I've 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.520 seen were fun and it seemed like a fun at first. 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.600 I was like, so it kicked off with like a 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:37.360 music thing. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.760 Well, Friday was the concert and this Sunday was like 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:41.480 the big thing. 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.120 Okay, got it, got it? 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:47.040 But I think Miley and Brittany Howard still performed at 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.160 on the Sunday Show. 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:53.360 Who's Brittany Howard from Alabama? Sheikhs? Oh cool? 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.360 And then Aubrey Plaza introduced them, and it's been her 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.840 first sighting since the tragedy. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.120 Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. Oh my gosh, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:04.720 I made it. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.600 But I thought the lobster thing is like the John 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.760 Mulaney Pete Davidson, like the lobster and the diner. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:12.080 Okay. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.360 I there was like a giant one of that where 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:20.640 I think, like, you know, just the celebrity parade. I 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:22.600 did see a thing about celebs where like it used 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.640 to be not cool to sell out, like you'd be like, eh, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.840 you fucking sell out, and then it stopped and I 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.839 was like, oh great, everyone's making their money, and now 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:33.520 it's like can people have some shame, Like I mean, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:34.480 fucking losers? 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:35.560 The super Bowl it's. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.600 Just celeb commercial after celebcri It's just. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.280 Like it's it's awesome change. It's also like half the 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.320 time taking jobs from like people that like just want 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.880 to get a cast in a commercial that's like, oh 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.720 they decided to cast like a super celebrity instead, you know, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.600 and no annoying. It's crazy because who do you remember 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.600 being the first? Like I this isn't definitely like the first, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.520 but I remember being like, why is Catherine's data Jones 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.439 doing tmobile commercials. Like I remember being like she is 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.559 so famous and she is like a singer and a 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.240 dancer and this like respected actress, Like why is she 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:09.960 like do do do? 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.640 Do do? Like why is she doing a T mobile commercial? 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.079 And then you know, I guess if it's like a 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.000 quick days of work for a few million dollars, why not. 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.280 But it's just like, I don't know, there just used 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.720 to be a thing of like not wanting to be 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.560 a sellout, and now there's totally it's not even a 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.560 hint of that. It's like everything is just an ad 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.839 and something is someone's trying to sell you something. They 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.000 all want to start a business, yeah, right ahead of 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:40.680 food book. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.880 I don't know. It's just like blame yeah, And it. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.520 Seems like it seemed like, yeah, because did you did 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.360 you sort of think of this because maybe Meryl Streep 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.000 thought like it would be kind of selling out to 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.120 go on SNL when she was like a really respected 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.000 actress back in the day, or like she was so serious. 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.640 Maybe No, I was thinking of it in terms of 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.440 like it was just celeb central, the SNL thing, and 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.440 then I was just thinking about the super Bowl, and 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.520 then I was just thinking about like this thing I 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.520 saw about how it used to like not be cool. 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.920 Yeah yeah, but then I was happy. 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.199 I remember seeing like Amy polar and commercials being like, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.800 hell yeah, I'm loving that Amy Pohlar is making money. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.880 I remember thinking that, and now I'm just like eight 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.240 celebrities in this duncan Ad Bill Belichick's Teen Bride, Like 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:29.479 I just don't. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.840 Well that, like ooh, yuck. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.160 That gives me a bad feeling, that whole thing. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.000 But that's what I thought about it. No, Meryll. 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.040 There was like a list I read of like people 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.000 surprisingly like Leonardo DiCaprio's Never Hosted. I also think it's 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.120 like a vulnerable, crazy thing. But Meryl would of course 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.240 kill it. I don't know why some people just have 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.160 never or maybe because their movies are serious, like Hi, 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.680 and I'm in The Iron Lady, you know, like. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.920 I know, but it's like at the same growing up, 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.600 growing up, she was in like Postcards from the Edge, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.920 she was in She Devil, one of my favorite movies 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.600 of all time, so funny like she was in Death 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.960 Becomes Her like all these great comedy roles like that. 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:19.120 It's like, why, okay, forty celebrity shockingly never hosted, Marishka 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.400 Hargate being one of them, Christian Bale, Kate Blanchette, Sandra Bullock. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:28.280 I think that's pretty shocking to me. Yeah, Viola Davis, 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.080 Leonardo DiCaprio, Morgan Freeman, Angelina, Julie, Jessica Lang. I mean, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.360 I wouldn't imagine Jessica Lang. I'm not surprised, No, she's not, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.800 but she would kill She would do an al Pacino 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.680 Brad Pitt, although he did make an Emmy nominated appearance 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.600 in twenty twenty, so I don't know what that is. 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.960 Julia Roberts, that's shocking. I can't believe in the nineties 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:54.440 she wouldn't have done it. Meryl she Downzel Washington, Yeah, weird. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.960 I don't think Christian Bale should do it. He's angry. 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.600 But Sandra Bullock and Robert's not doing it is like 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.080 pretty shocking to me because they're also America's sweethearts. Like 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.640 they are good actresses, but they're America's sweetheart vibes like 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:13.280 right and doing comedies and like charming, like we love them. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:14.320 Why wouldn't they do it? 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:16.200 I don't know. 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.920 Like Sandra Bullock is very funny, Yeah, it's such a 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:19.600 cool history. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.840 It really is like whatever they I mean, I just 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.080 wish like an old out of touch man didn't have 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.560 Elon Musk and fucking Trump post and like. 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.040 I do too, I really like I listen to this 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:34.800 so outdated. I listened to this like podcast one time 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.120 and I feel really oh it was like a Malcolm Glodwell, 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.080 which whatever. 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.360 People have mixed feelings about him, but he did. 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.320 This podcast about like this episode of his podcast about 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:49.040 like satire and how like satire in the United States 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.000 has like lost its teeth because we used to make 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.160 fun of things to like call them out, and now 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.480 instead of we make we'll make fun of Sarah Palin, 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.160 but then we'll invite her to be on the show, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.000 or like we'll make fun of Donald Trump and then 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:00.360 invite him to be on the show. And it's like, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.080 so you're not actually calling out anybody because you're inviting 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.320 them in. Like the teeth is out of the satire 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.440 and so like, I am super disappointed that they had 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.360 Elon Musk and Donald Trump on, you know, like I 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.960 think that sucks, but whatever, everybody makes mistakes. 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.199 I do also think that the rumor is he's going 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.360 to step down now that the fiftieth. After we pass 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:22.480 the fiftieth. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.919 Lauren, fuck yeah, And the two people I've heard bandied 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.240 about are Seth and Tina, so we'll see. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:29.520 Well. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.280 Yeah, though I feel like those are obviouss me but I. 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.000 But somebody was telling me they were like the thing 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:37.639 is is like Lauren's the one that gets all the 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.840 money for that show. Like there he kind of like 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.000 swings his dick around and gets like a bunch of 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.040 money for like these digital shorts and all this big 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.879 production and like whatever, and that they don't know that 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.600 without him, the network will like keep giving it the 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:52.400 same amount of money. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:53.080 But I don't know. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.040 I don't think he's like give it to anyone. I 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.200 think he's going to die there. I think he's a psychopath. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.080 I think he likes what he's creating. He's eighty, so 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.360 it's fine. But it's like I just don't think he's 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.679 gonna act normal or make a normal decision. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:16.160 interesting though I'm interested. Dan Akroyd also wasn't there. Oh yeah. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.040 I loved Lorraine Newman and Jane Curtin holding up Gilda's picture. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.280 That was so sweet. That was very sweet. 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.040 I was hanging out with Devin Walker right after it, 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.080 and I was like asking, he goes, you seem to 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.800 know more about what happened than I do. I go, 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.240 I've been watching everything on the internet. I've been looking 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:34.760 at everything, every outfit. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:36.320 He's like, you crazy. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.000 It was like, yeah, it's interesting, and it was taking 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.719 over our feeds for like the whole weekend. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.760 I mean I saw like nothing else but that, Like, oh, 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.960 Sarah Sherman was dressed so nice. And then everyone's listening 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.560 to this three weeks later. We've already like our country 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.280 will be nuclearly bombed by the time this comes out. 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.879 And people will be like just cooking dinner at the 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.480 camps listening to your podcast. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.800 I just can't believe we're living this life of like 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.840 joy and terror and frozen. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:04.840 This I don't know. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.879 Yeah, oh but our next intro, we'll be able to 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.040 talk about Luigi's trials, so. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.360 Oh yes, it's that yes, And I will have watched 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.119 I will be caught up on drug Race by then. 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:18.679 I've got a lot to catch up on. Also, I'm 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.840 going to New York next week. I'm gonna be God, 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.880 I'm gonna have my laptop. I'm gonna have a TV 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:24.760 and I'm gonna have no kids, so I'm catching up 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:25.600 on a lot of shit. 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:26.520 I'm excited. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.479 That's those are your big New York plan, Those are 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:29.920 my big New York plans. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.440 I'm like, i gotta catch up on all my shit, 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:35.960 like drag Race White Lights. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.639 Are you gonna see Connecticut people or just New York people. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.760 I'm gonna go see my parents on the drive up 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:44.560 to New Hampshire. I'm gonna stop in and just give 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.359 them a quick high. But I don't think I'm gonna 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.480 see like my brother or anybody else in Connecticut. Yeah, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.119 I'm gonna be in the city most of the time. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.679 But I'm excited. I mean, it is gonna be February 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.960 in New York, so I am nervous, but I'm excited 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:00.560 to be back because I New York. 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:02.560 I love New York. 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.120 But yeah, should we get started. We've got a great 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.000 episode for today. As always, go to That's Messed Up 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.520 Live dot com. You can buy some merch you can 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:17.800 check out Lisa's tour dates, follow us, rate us reviews. 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:18.560 Whatever you gotta do. 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:20.520 But That's Messed Up Live dot com has all the 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.360 links that you need in your life. Also, promo codes 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.879 for all of our ads. If you're interested in getting 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.240 a little deal. I'm seeing me live, I'm on the road. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.479 that's on there too, all Lisa's dates go check her 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.199 out and uh and that's it. 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:35.280 Yeah, let's get started. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:44.359 So we are doing Redemption season three, episode six. 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.120 Wow, fresh off nine to eleven November. 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.679 It is the hallmark of our podcast that we always 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.679 put ourselves in time in relation to nine. 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:59.520 To eleven November. Second. That's yeah, we're not even two 0:20:59.520 --> 0:20:59.960 months out. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.760 I wonder when they came back, Like they are crazy, 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.480 they don't really rest, but I think everyone rested for 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:07.919 a while. 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.880 I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there. Yeah. 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.080 There was also the thing where the Twin Towers were 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.159 in the opening credits, and I think they had to 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.919 like remove them, unlike me and my college dorm room, 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.800 where I had just put up a full wallpaper of 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:23.960 the New York City skyline featuring the Twin Towers and 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.560 it stayed up for my entire senior year of college. 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.840 So we said, the Twin Towers are still standing strong 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.920 in high Rise, which was the name of my dorm. 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.840 But people were like scared when they saw them. Right, Yeah, 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.600 everybody would walk in and go whoa. 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.399 But they did think it looked cool, like it was 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:42.880 a cool wallpaper we found at home. 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:43.280 Depot. 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:50.000 Okay, redemption, redemption. We're in court and Stablers on the sand. 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.760 He's being asked about stating under oath that he tested 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:57.679 everyone that had any personal contact with Leslie Bellow, and 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.000 you know, he's like correct, But then they're like, well, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.520 he didn't test the teacher or the bus driver, the plumber, 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.560 so in fact, you didn't test everyone that came in 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.280 contact with her. And he's like, well, Leslie didn't identify 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.600 the plumber as her rapist, so and the lawyers like, 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.720 well eight year olds Lie. So then Cabot has an objection, 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.000 and she does stand. They don't always stand, Did I 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:17.960 always have to stand? 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.480 Barbara like leans back during his objections, Like I think 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:23.000 it's like a different I think it's. 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:23.720 A style thing. 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.040 Like she stands, Casey, I think sometimes stands. Barba's like objection, 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.840 you're on her leading, you know, like Barba's drinking an 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.200 espresso while he's doing it, Like, but yeah, she stands. 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.600 He withdraws though, and goes and sits down. Cabot redirects 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.520 and says whom did Leslie below identify as her rapists? 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:48.080 And Stabler says her grandfather Frederick Bellow dramatic music. Sabler 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.360 walks out of court and Leslie's in the hallway. She's 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.080 holding a bear. This bear has a purple outfit and 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.440 the mom's there. She's scared, but he's gonna pump He's 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.560 pumping her up that like she's gonna do a good 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.359 job on stand. She's very scared, but Sablor knows that 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.040 she can do it. She hands her stuff to bear 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.480 over to him, Wow huge and goes into the courtroom. 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.040 Sabler says he can't be in there, but that they're 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:13.760 always in there. 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.399 I know, I don't know why. He's like I can't. 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.800 He's like, I gotta go. I suddenly have to be 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:20.400 there for my own kids. Like I don't know why 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.400 he has to leave. He's always in lives, always in there, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:23.760 like with the victims. 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:24.600 I know. 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:26.600 So that's a little confusing to me. 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.000 So also, like this fucking guy, I'm just saying, like 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:31.720 I know, this isn't even like the main part of 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:35.159 the episode, but like you're a man who has uh 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.880 sexually assaulted your own granddaughter, like you obviously and you've 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.800 been caught and now you're putting her through a trial. 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:44.320 It's like double monstrosity, do you know what I mean? 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:46.400 Like if you were just like, oh my god, I'm 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.320 a monster. I've been doing this in secret. I'm sick. Okay. 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:51.600 But he's like, nope, take me to trial. I want 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:55.320 to prove that she's a liar in front, like fucking nuts. 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:59.119 This is nuts. Now, you know. 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:01.440 We cut the stabler walking into the precincts. He doesn't 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:03.920 talk to anybody, and Benson's like, how did it go? 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.280 And we could tell by the body language not good? 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:10.400 Okay yea, and he goes They let him walk. That's crazy. 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.040 If he had the STD that his granddaughter had, I 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.160 don't know what more evidence that jury really needed. 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:21.160 Right, And she's telling you she's eight, Like that's eight 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:21.840 year olds? 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.680 No, what's up? Yeah? They both have gone rha in 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.959 the house like I just fuck that jury. Yeah. 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:31.080 He pushes all the coffee cups to the ground and 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.880 says the whole system is screwed up and runs off. 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:36.280 But the city never sleeps, so they have to go 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.119 to another crime scene. A UNI breaks it down at 0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:44.160 a no Hoo apartment so to rape homicide Jennifer Walton 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.239 twenty five. Her friend discovered her after the landlady let 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:50.560 her in. There's a whole punch through the bedroom door, 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.160 and then we see her in the bed. It's bloody, 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:56.719 hands bound behind her back with panty hose. They use 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:00.440 panty hose a lot in the beginning seasons. Yes, every 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:03.120 woman has panty hose. They're always lying around, Hi, They're 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:05.760 always being used to tie people up. Yeah, they do. 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:10.920 And then face pummeled throats. 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:14.600 Slick Finn finds a white rose and Munch says, oh, 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.840 a romantic psycho sailors in the corner, going damn. I 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.160 thought my day couldn't get any worse. Always about him. 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:24.880 But we go right into the credits and we're still 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.480 at the crime scene. We're talking to the neighbors who's 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:29.719 holding a fluffy white dog and she's saying how she 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.800 would watch the victim's dog. When she went away last 0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:36.000 month for the weekend with a man named David. They 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:39.720 were friendly, she says, she saw him sometimes. He was tall, 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:43.480 graying hair, brought her flowers all different types, and she 0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:44.160 heard them fighting. 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:44.720 Last night. 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.119 She was yelling something about trying like her, trying to 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.320 ruin his life. She feels bad for not checking in 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.439 on her. Now they go to the friend who found 0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:57.160 her and she's holding the victims dog. It's a King 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:03.520 Charles guy, were King Charles Spaniel spaniel. 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:04.120 There we go. 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:07.639 Cute, cute dog and they they were gonna meet for 0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:10.000 drinks at nine, but eight thirty she called, saying she's 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.640 gonna be late, and she did. Hear a man's voice 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:15.440 in the background, sailor's being a dick as this girl 0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:19.040 is crying, she's flustered, and he's being snied and sarcastic 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:22.119 to her, and he goes, oh, is there anything you're 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:25.919 sure about? Benson's watching him be a dick from afar. 0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:29.320 She calls him, you know, She's like, all right, come 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.800 over here. She says that it looks like the victim 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:37.240 was entertaining. There's wine glasses. It seems like the first 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:39.879 blow happened at the on the couch and then was 0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:43.679 dragged into the bedroom. No sign of a struggle, but 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:46.080 so that means the first blow really knocked her out 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:49.320 and like stunned her. Melinda chimes in that she thinks 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:52.560 the purp was left handed. The knife and blood spatter 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.440 at point two it being left handed. I don't think 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:57.359 this comes up again, though, so that I know I 0:26:57.440 --> 0:26:58.240 was saying that. 0:26:58.320 --> 0:26:59.800 I was like, Lisa will tell me, but I don't 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:01.520 think I ever bring up the left handed thing again. 0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:04.439 They never do, so that's funny. 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:08.440 So then this dude showers and washes the wineglass a 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:11.480 knife and then takes the dirty towels and stuff with him. 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:15.760 Stabler goes, wow, you have it all figured out, and 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:17.960 she goes, yeah, at least I'm trying. We're back at 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:21.720 Craigan's office, all hands on deck, including George Wang. He 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.399 thinks the violence is soothing to him because it was 0:27:24.480 --> 0:27:27.639 a lot of rage but not out of control, and 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:31.040 that he has euphoria after like the initial outburst, but 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:34.359 then it calms him down, and so the more he maims, 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:36.760 the better he feels, and once the rage goes away, 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:38.960 he's kind of like a gentle loving you know. Tucks 0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:42.159 her into bed, folds her clothing flower on the pillow, 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:45.640 and then he also says that this dude wooed her 0:27:45.680 --> 0:27:48.240 before he killed her. So George is thinking this guy 0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:52.400 is smart and charming. Stabler walks off. He's like checks 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:56.040 out fully, Benson chases him down. I'm like so annoyed. 0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:57.840 It's like, just let him be a little baby. I 0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:02.120 don't like, we have a crime to solve. But they're 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:05.000 gonna go talk to the boyfriend and then and like 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:07.400 deal with her work, and then Finn and Munch will 0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:11.720 focus on forensics. So then at Melinda's how oh yeah, 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:16.639 this girl's tore up. Oh it's rough, teeth beaten out, 0:28:17.119 --> 0:28:20.120 like yeah, he hit her so hard that her teeth 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.439 fell out, like this is crazy. No semen, but spermicide. 0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:28.520 And then ding ding ding weird two circular incisions on 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:32.800 her chest where the skin was taken out. Melinda says, 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.240 what this woman went through death was a blessing. 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:37.840 And you know, this reminds me of Silence of the 0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:41.320 Lambs right away, of course, right the removing of the 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:43.480 skin piece, you know, I was like, oh, it's a 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:44.520 Buffalo bill type. 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:46.120 But you know, we find. 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:50.960 Out they go to talk to a woman at the 0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:53.280 store and her coworker has been found dead, but she 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:55.120 has not stopped putting clothes away. 0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:58.560 Yeah, she's on the move. She's got to restock. 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.720 And the thing is this is classic SVU, but it 0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:04.920 still needs to be mentioned, and it is one of 0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:07.800 the most egregious I've ever seen, Like you. 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:09.720 Could even ask your manager, Hey, the cops are here 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.440 to talk about my our dead coworker, Like could could 0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:13.440 I leave for five minutes? 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:16.560 Can I go outside? Like the manager wouldn't even care. 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:19.520 It's like you always have to stock. There's no rush, 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:22.200 there's no like no one was at the store. Like 0:29:23.480 --> 0:29:25.560 the way she was put I mean, maybe that's her, 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.760 like the way she deals with stress, but just put 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:29.800 the clothes down. 0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:31.800 If we ever get to talk to like Dick woll 0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:34.520 for like or people that direct the episodes, I'd be 0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:38.240 interested to know about, like is there something that's like, oh, 0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:41.000 it's better, like it's better visually to keep the people 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:44.480 moving fast, because like it's one thing to like be 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:46.280 on one side of a counter and then move to 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.200 the other side to grab a book or something. These 0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:51.000 people are like running half the time they're talking to 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.920 the cops. Like the the clip at which they are 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:56.240 getting their jobs done, it's so I mean, it's a 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:59.760 full SNL sketch, but like it's it's like, I don't know, 0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:00.800 cracks me up. 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:04.600 Yeah, Okay, So then they ask her about like you know, 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:06.080 do you know about this guy that was heard at 0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:08.840 her house? And she goes, yeah, and he's a married man, 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:11.720 but that never stopped him. He was always chasing women 0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:15.320 and he was shameless. Tammy from Cosmetics even filed a 0:30:15.320 --> 0:30:18.640 harassment suit. He never backed off. She had a transfer 0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:21.320 to a store in Brooklyn, and that's when he turned 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:24.080 all his attention to our girl. The woman says, like 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:26.720 she warned her, but she kept insisting that they were 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:27.320 just friends. 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:29.280 So we have to go find this guy. And he's 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:29.920 so creepy. 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.160 He's touching this woman's legs as he puts shoes on, 0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:35.920 like he's in the shoe department. So it is, uh, 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:39.680 it's creepy. It's so touchy. So we're immediately in cement 0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:42.720 room bars. He has a bandage wrapped around his hand 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:46.640 and he says he broke a knuckle banging it against 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:49.960 the door. Hello, we saw a hole in the door, 0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:54.160 so ding ding ding, So they bring up I keep saying, 0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:56.760 so I think more than I normally do. 0:30:58.880 --> 0:30:59.640 I'm gonna stop. 0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:02.720 Well, can I jump in really quickly here to say 0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:07.400 that this shoeman is soap opera royalty. He is just 0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:09.800 for any of the soapy girlies. He was on All 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:14.080 My Children for twelve hundred and eight episodes, it has 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:18.880 on his IMDb, and and then I think he oh yeah, 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:20.920 and then he moved Young and the Restless in General Hospital. 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:22.400 But for me, he's Tad Martin. 0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:25.800 Tad and Dixie were like the couple for me on 0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:27.760 All my Children. They're like the Luke and Laura of 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:30.120 my all my of all my children for me, I 0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.640 mean also All my Children also had Susan Lucci, who 0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:34.680 I was like obsessed with, but like Tad and Dixie 0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:36.600 were like the couple you were like rooting for on 0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:39.640 All my children. So if anyone any Pine Valley heads 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:42.840 out there, this is him anyway. 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:42.920 Go on. 0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:46.240 So to me to interrupt, I don't mind. I mean 0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:48.960 it's good. He needs to get his flowers. He was 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:52.120 just the man. So I'm sure you got really excited. 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.760 They yeah, So they bring up that you know, we 0:31:56.840 --> 0:31:59.760 know you were Jennifer's and we you know you were 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:02.600 her yelling, and then Sailor leans in and goes, oh, 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:05.000 I have didn't make you feel good beating a woman. 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.080 He denies it obviously, and he's like, what is what? 0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:10.240 What was this about the door I'll pay for the 0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:13.520 damn door. Sabor leans in again and like his hands 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:17.400 are on his knees and he goes, what set you off, 0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:22.800 shoe boy, and he says she was going to file 0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:25.280 a complaint with the boss of harassing her. And he's like, 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:27.719 I only asked her to dinner and they say, so 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:30.720 you murdered her, and his face is legit shocked, stun 0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:34.400 and he goes what he turns to Benson like just 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:39.440 flabberg acid, She's dead. Yeah. Stabler does not like this attitude, 0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:41.960 grabs him, pulls him up, slams him on the grates 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:45.520 of the window. He is scared as how you know, angry, 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.640 angry elliot and Benson you know mommy Mommy is like, 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:51.920 leave him alone. And so then he says she threw 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:53.840 me out around seven thirty, and they're like, you're a 0:32:53.840 --> 0:32:56.120 fucking liar, and he goes, no, no, no, I was 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:59.040 already at the hospital by eight. So then he breathes 0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:01.400 like a sigh of relief because he does know that 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:04.320 he has an alibi at this point. So Stabler releases 0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:06.280 the grip just a little bit and they all run out. 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:08.600 Benson is like, bitch, what the hell are you doing. 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:10.959 Do you want to get sued? And he's rolling up 0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:13.960 his sleeves and speed walking. She is so annoyed, but 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:17.200 again being mature, So then we had to mercy general 0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:20.040 and what do we have here? David Steadman signed in 0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:24.200 at seven forty seven just discharged. Ew I don't like 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:28.760 saying discharged. Discharge at twelve fifty two am. They ask 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:31.080 why it took so long, and it's because every time 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:32.520 he hit on the nurse, she put him on the 0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:33.360 bottom of the list. 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.000 Love that doing the lord's work. 0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:39.680 Stabler runs off again and guess what, put your money 0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:43.200 on it. Benson's chasing him down the hallway and it's 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:47.600 like damn like I and in between them rushes in 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:52.320 a stretcher with EMTs and it's like we hear face pummeled, 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:55.600 five inch laceration to the throat. Benson on the phone 0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:58.360 trying to hear something. Munch is on the line and 0:33:58.440 --> 0:34:01.040 she's like, I think that person on this stretcher that's 0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:05.040 victim number two. So they head on back and obviously 0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:07.239 this was a commercial break, and so now we're at 0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:10.279 the center board of the precinct. The second victim is 0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:13.560 Celia Mitchum, she's twenty five, a teacher's aid, and the 0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:15.959 landlord found her tucked into bed with all the same 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:18.400 details from the other crime. So they are looking at 0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:20.359 ye capt to see if there's other crimes that fit 0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:23.640 the mo because obviously he's like like when he was, 0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:26.319 maybe more sloppy, because he's way too organized now. But 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.200 he's not a first timer. This is all according to Huang. 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:33.160 You know, he's like wine, chocolates, roses, that's all romance, 0:34:33.280 --> 0:34:36.040 you know, white roses, that's a symbol of innocence, purity. 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:40.080 Huang's like, unfortunately, no woman fulfills his romantic fantasy, and 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:42.920 that's why he goes nuts. You know, he's frustrated and 0:34:42.960 --> 0:34:46.400 it keeps escalating, and he studies these women. He knows them. 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:50.160 He's white educated, middle management and stabler. With his feet 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:52.600 up on the desks, goes, why didn't you pick up 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.560 any of this before? Huang goes, because a pattern didn't 0:34:56.600 --> 0:35:01.000 emerge until the second victim, you fool. Quang thinks, such 0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:07.960 a little bit, it's honestly just so annoying. Quang thinks, he's, uh, well, yeah, 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.560 it's like a bad trait, you know, like if you're 0:35:10.560 --> 0:35:11.160 in a bad mood. 0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:13.680 Everyone has to be in a bad mood. Yeah, that's 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:14.280 like annoying. 0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:20.759 Yeah, bad quality exactly, Huang thinks. Now, Huang's like, I 0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:22.720 bet he's been doing it like five to ten years. 0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:26.560 And then we hear a new deep man voice. You'll 0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:29.080 have to go hell of a lot further back than that. 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:32.360 And this man knows Elliott, and Elliott knows him, and 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:34.960 his name is John and he and he needs a 0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:38.360 few minutes with Cragan. Craigan is expecting him. He's like, 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:41.720 Detective Hawkins, come this way. And then Craigan invites Elliott 0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:44.200 to join the meeting as well, which is weird. Why 0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:47.200 not Benson, you know, she's actually doing her job and 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:49.600 not being a big baby fit is like, who the 0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:50.160 hell is that? 0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:54.640 And Stanbler goes, what whyatt here? Right? 0:35:54.960 --> 0:35:57.439 Yeah, but that's not his name? No, but that he's 0:35:57.480 --> 0:35:59.600 making a joke. Why but what is that? 0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:03.480 Wyatterup is like an outlaw or something? Right, Like I 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:05.640 think I don't know, Like, let me look. I think 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:08.279 it's like a reference to Yes, it's like a great question. 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:10.759 I've like literally been to bars called Wyerps and I 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:13.480 like don't really know who he was, like a cop, 0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:15.480 but I think like he was a cop in like 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:19.680 the eighteen hundreds or the nineteen hundreds, No, the eighteen hundreds, 0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:25.080 and I think he did like the Deadwood type time period, 0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:26.799 you know, and then he I think was like a 0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:29.640 cop that did things on his own, like like skirted 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:30.880 the rules and shit. You know. 0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.319 Okay, okay, I think he's making that reference, but I 0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:37.480 did have to google that. I don't so renegade cop 0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:43.160 and so Craigan wants the door shut. Shit is getting real. 0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:48.759 Stabler took this man's class at the academy. Hawkins goes, well, 0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:52.280 do you remember the sohost strangler, and you know, Sabler's like, yeah, 0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:56.120 Roger Berry early eighties beating raped his victims and then 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.239 strangle them, and Hawkins put him away. Well he's like, 0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:01.480 well he's out. He was pearled six months ago. And 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:05.200 Stabler's like what. Stabler fights it immediately. It's like, well no, 0:37:05.320 --> 0:37:08.800 because there was a knife, not strangling, and the Hawkins 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:11.400 is like yeah, but tucks into bed you know White Rose, 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:13.640 and Stabler says it, well, it could be a copycat, 0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:17.120 you know. But we find out that information about the 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:19.799 White Rose was never revealed to the media. So then 0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:22.680 Stable goes, yeah, but he was a biter, and it's like, duh, 0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:25.319 he cut out the encircles in the skin so you 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.840 couldn't see the bites and do the dental records like 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:33.920 you fool I wrote a real noss ferratu on her hands. Okay, 0:37:34.040 --> 0:37:39.560 So so now Stabler has to work with Hawkins. And 0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:42.200 you know, I always love when they give Stabler a 0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:44.359 man with an attitude that he has to deal with. 0:37:44.840 --> 0:37:48.719 This has happened I think three times where they're like, oh, 0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:50.239 you want to know what it's like to work with 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:52.280 an asshole, here you go. 0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:58.080 And then he has to like learn this lesson. Sabler's livid. 0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:00.480 He's like, oh, I need a babysitter and crays like 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:04.080 this is no reflection on you. Sibber says this isn't right, 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:08.160 but he has no choice. So Hawkins is addressing the 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:11.760 team and he goes, fuck, I missed one fucking parole 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:15.080 hearing and they let this lunatic out. Sailor comes out 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.640 and Ben goes, wow, you know a hawk's areal, take 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:20.399 charge kind of guy. So we know that his PO 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:23.399 has him working at a flower shop, so they're gonna 0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:27.440 send Munch to the flower shop, and then the angry 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:30.120 boys are gonna go to the apartment. Benson's gonna go 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:34.000 meet up with the lab in forensics. Everyone is annoyed 0:38:34.000 --> 0:38:37.319 by him, but they're following along and Benson is with 0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:40.160 an emmy I've never seen in my life. And there's 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:43.640 no evidence on any of the romance items. They did, though, 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:48.200 find the same navy slip knot was used on both victims, 0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:52.000 and they found a contact lens. It's for a twenty 0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:55.920 over one point fifty prescription. So this guy was blind 0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:58.440 on his way out, they said, at least in one eye. 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:01.920 But there's no DNA in the contact. But then they 0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:04.200 did find a hair in the drains that did not 0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:08.799 match either victim, but both hairs matched each other. So 0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:13.759 that's huge, I mean, that's really yeah. So like if 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:15.920 there's one root on any of these hairs and we 0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:18.480 get a DNA swab like from you know, when he 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.040 was paroled, we could all we could figure this all out. 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:23.480 We got to find this guy. So they're at the 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:26.000 apartment and the men are walking and Hawkins goes as 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:28.799 your partner always this friendly, and Sailor goes, oh no, 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:34.200 she just doesn't like you get him so they kick 0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:37.040 the door down and there's you know, Sailor's like, well, 0:39:37.080 --> 0:39:39.279 we don't have a warrant, and he goes, well, if 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:41.719 it's a pearle officer, the pearle officers can do what 0:39:41.760 --> 0:39:43.759 they want. And he goes, well, I don't see a 0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:46.399 parole officer around here, and he goes he'll be here, 0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:49.960 doesn't matter, and it's just like this is so the 0:39:50.040 --> 0:39:52.480 episode of Sex and the City when like Charlotte and 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:56.279 Samantha learn about like being in like suddenly he's the 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:59.800 guy that has to be like, wait, what about the rules. 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.240 It's like, yeah, you never follow the fucking roll. Saber 0:40:03.360 --> 0:40:05.800 was like, are we sure this is even the apartment? 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.160 And you know, are like, Huang sat our dude, is 0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:10.719 middle management meticulous. 0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:12.400 That's not what this apartment is. Like. 0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:16.080 This apartment is bear and messy and there's a lot 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:19.880 of paintings of tugboats and ferry boats and but the 0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:23.160 bed has hospital corners. So that's meticulous. But I also 0:40:23.160 --> 0:40:26.399 think that's trauma for them being in jail for eighteen years. 0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:29.960 Right, I also do hospital corners, but you're right, jail trauma. 0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:32.440 My mom made me do hospital corners. She was like 0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:34.279 she always said about making a bed. She's like, if 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:35.600 you're not going to do it right, just don't even 0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:37.640 do it. And I was like, okay, and I always 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:39.239 and she taught me to do hospital corners and I 0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:39.879 always do them. 0:40:40.160 --> 0:40:41.120 What does that even mean? 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:45.680 Basically, you take the sheet, you go underneath the back, 0:40:45.840 --> 0:40:48.640 like the very bottom of the mattress, tuck it under. 0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:51.839 Then you pull up the little corner and then tuck 0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:55.000 it in so that it makes a little It's like, 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:57.160 if you don't do it, your sheets are just kind 0:40:57.160 --> 0:41:00.960 of hanging like jagged at the point where you tuck 0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:03.520 it under the very end. So this like tucks it 0:41:03.560 --> 0:41:06.000 in really neat and makes it like a nice corner. 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:06.480 That's all. 0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:09.600 And I've tried to teach Jared how to do it 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:11.560 about seventy five times and it's not sticking. 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:13.759 Can't you like cannot do it? He's like, how do 0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:14.040 you do that? 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:14.279 Again? 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:16.600 I'm like, it's two things, it's two steps. You just 0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:24.600 cannot figure it out. Weaponized incompetence anyway, So then we. 0:41:24.600 --> 0:41:29.040 Find newspaper clippings of Celia and Jennifer. The pro officer 0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:32.040 finally gets there and he's just like Crosstown traffics a 0:41:32.120 --> 0:41:34.959 bitch and it is. So then they go to visit 0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.279 his mother since he's not at home or at work, 0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:40.080 and the mom's like, ugh you and he's like, yep, 0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:44.279 miss Barry, it's me and he just loves being a 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.480 heel and she's not helping them, so leave her the 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.880 fuck alone. She's convinced he was railroaded. He is innocent. 0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:55.040 The police still eighteen years from him. She's coughing and 0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:57.680 like she's trying a garden and she can't now because 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:00.040 she's self flustered and she wants to be left alone. 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:02.840 She grabs an oxygen tank and like takes some breaths. 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:06.120 Hawkins says, if we find you hiding him again, we're 0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:08.799 going to charge you with accessory after the fact, and 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:11.640 she says, you don't scare me, go to hell and 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:15.279 slams the door. Hawkins suggests, like, hey, let's go out 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.320 to eat. Roger used to always like eat at this place. 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:18.799 Let's go. 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.799 So they head to Charlie's Bar and grill and the 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:25.000 bartenders and a bunch of Svus Royalty. He was in 0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:32.359 the episode Countdown Deception and Savior, So pretty exciting. Oh 0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:37.200 the Misha Martin yeah, yes, yes, yes, Ray Andacelli, we 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:41.720 salute you and your work for SVU. So he knows Roger. 0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:44.120 He's like, yeah, he gets a cheeseburger and a root beer. 0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:46.600 And he started coming here like a few months ago. 0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:49.680 And he's also very specific and can only sit at 0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:52.759 one table and he'll even wait hours for it to 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.359 open up, and so we like hold it for him, 0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:57.680 just like with a little sign. Why not, it doesn't 0:42:57.719 --> 0:43:01.080 cost me any trouble. So the boys get burgers and 0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:05.600 then Hawkins gets a double bourbon neat and uh, the 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:08.560 most stabler order bottle beer domestic. 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:12.319 I'm surprised he's even having a drink. 0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:14.360 They've been offered a drink many many times on the 0:43:14.440 --> 0:43:19.880 job before and they always are like, no, aer a 0:43:19.920 --> 0:43:23.319 beer is barely anything, I guess yeah, And I think 0:43:23.360 --> 0:43:26.520 he's just like had enough of dealing with this guy. Yeah, 0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:28.800 but a double bourbon in the middle of the weekday, 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:30.600 that's tough. 0:43:30.600 --> 0:43:32.319 It's kind of a wild move. 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:34.880 It also like I'm a jack on the rocks drinker 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:38.319 and like not with a burger, not for lunch, like 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:43.480 not with dinner, Like that's not that's a like drink 0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:47.400 at a bar. That's not a dinner drink, right, But 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.600 he obviously has a problem. So they go back and 0:43:50.640 --> 0:43:53.239 forth with some attitude. Then angry cop brings up the 0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:56.239 grandfather rape case and they bond, and you know, he 0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:59.520 tries to give stage advice, but Sadler's just way too haunted. 0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:03.239 And so then Stabler is just so tired of losing. 0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:06.640 And Roger does a toast and he says, all that's 0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:09.319 required for evil to triumph is for good men to 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:14.120 do nothing. Here's to a few good men. Stabler's phone rings, 0:44:14.160 --> 0:44:17.200 it's munch. Oh no, he has news. So then the 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:20.160 flower shop boss confirms that this dude did make a 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:24.440 delivery to Jennifer's apartment like the week before she was murdered, 0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:27.400 and this is how he found his victims before he 0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:31.320 was arrested too, like pre arrests. And so the burgers 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.080 come and they're like, wait, where is he? Like here's 0:44:34.160 --> 0:44:37.879 saying he's always here, same time, same table, and he goes, oh, well, 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:39.880 sometimes he runs late. He gets caught up looking at 0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:43.080 the boats on Peer forty one. So the men only 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:45.480 take one bite of the burger and they run without paying, 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:46.600 and the bartender's annoyed. 0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:48.200 He's like wait, who's gonna pay for this? 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:51.680 And so they see his ass at the pier and 0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.680 they separate and slowly walk towards him on either side 0:44:55.120 --> 0:44:58.920 of the boardwalk. He's scared and kind of slow, and 0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:01.359 so he has I rope around his neck and he 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:03.520 doesn't like, you know, he doesn't want to go back 0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:06.600 to jail, and he tries to jump, but Stabler catches 0:45:06.680 --> 0:45:09.440 him and he's like they're fighting. It's a lot of fighting. 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:13.600 The dude punches him and Stabler cuffs him. He's screaming, 0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:16.440 you know no and crying and we're in cement room 0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:18.680 bars and Roger does not want to talk to John 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:21.959 Hawkins one bit. And he goes the night before last, 0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:23.960 where were you? And he's like, I was, you know, 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:26.120 with my mom on my birthday. I ate cake and 0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:28.440 I went home. I was in bed by ten. He 0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:30.640 says he doesn't know who Celia is, but he does 0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:34.960 admit to delivering flowers to lots of nice ladies. Hawkins 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:37.480 is like, yeah, and then you killed this one and 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:39.759 he's like, no, I did not. I just don't see 0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:42.239 him getting away with the crimes. Like I'm looking at 0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:48.640 this man and I just don't see it. So, so 0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:51.080 why did he have the newspaper clippings And he's like, well, 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:53.279 my mom gave them to me. My mom told me 0:45:53.320 --> 0:45:54.960 to be careful because you were going to try to 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:57.600 put me back in jail. And Sailor goes, hey, you're 0:45:57.640 --> 0:45:59.080 not going to go back to jail if you didn't 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:02.200 do it, and he goes, Nope, you're gonna lie. That's 0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:04.960 like he lied last time, and Hawkins goes, oh, here 0:46:05.000 --> 0:46:08.640 we go. Rogers is like, you know, Hawkins said if 0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:10.520 I signed the papers, I could go home. 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:12.120 And Hawkins is. 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:14.880 Screaming, and Roger gets fed up and flips the table 0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:17.640 and Hawkins and Stabler like against the wall. 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:18.480 Oh my god. 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:22.480 Hawkins like puts him against the wall starts slapping him 0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:25.560 in the face, and this guy starts crying for his mom, 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:29.360 and he goes, your mama can't help you now, boy, 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:33.279 and then he threatens the needle in his arm, and 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:35.640 at this point, Roger was crying so hard and he 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:37.759 slides down the wall to the ground and goes, I 0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:42.040 want my mom. Stabler's like staring at him like, oh 0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:45.400 my god, what about Like this is so then Benson's 0:46:45.400 --> 0:46:47.680 telling Hawkins, we gotta cut him loose. We have nothing 0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:50.440 on him, and you know John has pissed. Of course, 0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:53.839 so then Benson's stablor Cragan in Cabot. They're like all 0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:56.839 together around Craigan's desk and it's like a like a 0:46:56.840 --> 0:47:00.319 Sistine chapel painting, you know, and trigger warning. 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:01.840 I'm gonna say a word, Gregan says. 0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:04.719 But Craigan like leans in and goes the guy is 0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:09.040 borderline retarded. And then Roger's like, oh, no, he's smarter 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:12.080 than you think, and it's like, no, he's not, Like 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:15.239 what are you talking about. There's no fucking way this 0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:19.280 guy committed this crime like with with no like leaving 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:21.920 no evidence and the incision marks and like. 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.439 The unless he's like unless he's pulling like an Edward 0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:27.400 Norton primal fear. This man does not know how to 0:47:27.400 --> 0:47:30.520 commit crimes. Wait, did you see that for movie Snake? 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.880 I got top one percent of players for the Edward 0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:37.920 Norton game. Ooh congratulations, that's a time to shine. I 0:47:37.960 --> 0:47:42.360 mean I was just yeah, so rob, so this guy's like, 0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:44.960 let me just go at him alone. I'll get him, 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:47.080 don't you worry, And they're like no. His mom reached 0:47:47.120 --> 0:47:49.279 out to legal aid and he's lawyered up. I think 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.800 they are. They're going to cancel legal aids soon. So 0:47:53.800 --> 0:47:55.759 so they're like, you need to back up, like he 0:47:56.160 --> 0:47:58.000 has a lawyer, and he runs out of the squad. 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:00.759 He's like so upset. Stammler's like, wait, but this is 0:48:00.840 --> 0:48:03.160 like fucked up. The signature was never released. How can 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:05.239 this be a copycat or someone and they're and then 0:48:05.239 --> 0:48:08.080 they're like, oh, Roger was never the fucking guy. The 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:10.960 SOHO strangler has been around this whole time, and now 0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:13.400 he gets to come back because this guy's out of jail, 0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:15.880 like duh, And so we got to get to the 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:18.200 file room to get information on the old case so 0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:21.480 we can like get to work. Benson's like, uugh. He 0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:24.319 will never accept that he did something wrong, especially if 0:48:24.320 --> 0:48:27.480 a woman tells him. And Saber goes, yeah, he's old school, 0:48:27.520 --> 0:48:31.200 and Benson goes, no, I think he's a drunk. So 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:34.319 then she was calling other cops to get gossip and 0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:36.080 that nobody wants to ride with him. 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:37.160 Everyone hates him. 0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:39.680 And then guess what when they get to the files, 0:48:39.680 --> 0:48:41.960 they've already been checked out by Hawkins. 0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:42.759 Holy shit. 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:45.440 He checks everything out to cover his ass because he 0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:47.360 knows he puts a man in jail that did not 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:50.680 commit the crime. So Stabler goes to his house and 0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:54.879 the tape of the confession is playing. So this man 0:48:54.960 --> 0:48:58.600 is not doing well. Roger is sitting listening to the confession. 0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:02.840 Boxes and papers and everywhere, empty bottles of booze, framed 0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:05.840 photos of a family who probably doesn't speak to him anymore. 0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:10.200 So he admits he was wrong. 0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:13.640 Stadler says, don't worry, We're gonna get this guy, and 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:16.359 Hawkins goes up to get another bottle of booze. So 0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:18.319 he starts like giving the backstory. He goes at the 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:21.160 time of the case. You know, he'd only had his 0:49:21.200 --> 0:49:23.520 shields for one year, but he wanted to show off 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:25.759 and show everyone what a kick ass cop he could be. 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.240 And he saw the flower delivery guy and he searched 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:31.879 the truck and he found out like porno and creepy shit. 0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:34.799 He got him to confess. He just wanted it so bad. 0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:37.200 He grilled him over and over and over again to 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:39.560 the point where he convinced him that he fucking did 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:42.719 it and fed him every single detail, and then he 0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:44.279 lied and said, if he signed this, you can go 0:49:44.320 --> 0:49:46.520 home to your mom. And then he goes the poor 0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:48.239 dumb son of a bitch believed me. 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:51.520 It reminds me so much of Brendan Dacy, like what 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:54.040 happened in making a murderer? Like they just brought in 0:49:54.080 --> 0:49:57.200 this like kid, and they kept him there for so long, 0:49:57.239 --> 0:49:58.560 and they were just like if you go home, if 0:49:58.600 --> 0:50:00.000 you go home, you can go home if you signed 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:01.640 this shit, Like it's so crazy. 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:06.360 I hate that. I like, I ough, yeah, like solve 0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:07.240 the crime. Okay. 0:50:07.280 --> 0:50:09.399 So Sailor's like, you have a chance to make things right. 0:50:09.840 --> 0:50:12.600 He goes, I took eighteen years from an innocent man. 0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:15.880 It's just occurring to him now, like it's it's just 0:50:15.920 --> 0:50:17.960 occurring to him that maybe this got like that he 0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:20.840 did this wrong thing, Like it's fine to be like, oh, 0:50:20.920 --> 0:50:22.680 I was a young dumb ass. I was looking for 0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:25.440 valor when I was younger, and now I'm it's eighteen 0:50:25.480 --> 0:50:27.239 years later and I've never gone back to be like, oh, 0:50:27.239 --> 0:50:28.600 by the way, I think I might have fucked up 0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:29.160 this case. 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:31.879 Like it's so I don't know, know, I think that's 0:50:31.880 --> 0:50:35.879 why he's a boozhound. Yeah he's drinking away the doubt 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:39.319 the shit. Yeah, yeah, Sabler gives him a speech. John 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:42.759 looks motivated but drunk. So they're gonna go through the 0:50:42.760 --> 0:50:45.719 papers and they're just gonna do old fashioned police work. 0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:50.759 Sabler asks Arthur Blessard, and Hawkins goes, oh, yeah, one 0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:54.040 of the neighbors that I did Roger, and Sailor goes, well, 0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:57.800 that name was an an Chilsholm's date book three weeks 0:50:57.800 --> 0:51:00.840 before she was murdered, so she as an appointment with 0:51:00.920 --> 0:51:04.920 a taxman named ab Holy shit. And then back in 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:08.080 the day, Hawkins used to sketch faces to keep like 0:51:08.120 --> 0:51:10.399 all the interviews straight in his head. So he goes 0:51:10.440 --> 0:51:12.920 through the old notebook and finds it and says, this 0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:15.920 dude was blind as a bat, holy shit, and like 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:19.000 he had these thick glasses in the drawing, and they're 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:21.680 like that could be like the contact from Celia's floor 0:51:22.160 --> 0:51:26.280 vision problems. To me, the contact thing is a stretch, 0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:27.680 like I don't know. 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:28.719 Yeah. 0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:30.919 Also, it feels like this is like a place where 0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:33.480 they also would have figured out like who's left handed, 0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:36.560 but they just caught it out or something, and that's 0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:39.200 why it's like at the beginning, you know. 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:42.360 And so we're back at the office and since Roger 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:45.280 was in prison. Like twelve more crimes in five different 0:51:45.320 --> 0:51:49.160 cities did happen, so he really fucked up, and twelve 0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.040 women are dead because he was like wanting to do 0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:56.359 selfish police work and be cool. So that's really And 0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:59.040 like the cities of all the places where the crimes 0:51:59.040 --> 0:52:03.719 occurred match up with Arthur Blessard's employment history, so they 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:07.160 could place him at seven of those murders. Chicago's where 0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:10.239 he started cutting out the bite marks. Atlanta is where 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:14.319 he started slitting throats. Every case matches his signature, and 0:52:14.360 --> 0:52:17.080 then Hawkins comes in and goes and now he works 0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:20.719 at twenty six Federal Plaza. He's in New York and 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:24.759 he works for the IRS. So they go over to 0:52:24.760 --> 0:52:28.719 the RS and so Celia and Jennifer Files are in 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:32.040 his office. He was using the IRS as a dating 0:52:32.080 --> 0:52:35.440 service and in his date book there's a time like 0:52:35.480 --> 0:52:37.800 it says a woman's name, five PM and their meeting 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:40.400 and it's four forty five. They have to go now, 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:43.680 so they rush and they hear a glass shattering. Inside 0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:45.799 they find this loser. They throw him up against the 0:52:45.800 --> 0:52:49.320 wall and they arrest his ass. Benson is talking to Beverly, 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:51.160 the woman who is about to be murdered. 0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:52.600 We can presume he. 0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.960 Contacted her about irregularities on her tax return. She went 0:52:56.000 --> 0:52:57.879 to the office. He was really nice and they worked 0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:02.239 on her taxes. Is that a thing that the IRL does? No, 0:53:03.080 --> 0:53:04.680 you cannot get through to the IRS. 0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:06.480 And I don't think the IRS is ever trying to 0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:09.560 help you, Like, I don't think the IRS is ever Like, hey, 0:53:09.680 --> 0:53:12.120 what happens if you have irregularities on your taxes? Is 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:14.200 they just like fine you and fuck you? You know, 0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:16.319 like they're not like, come on in, let's work this out. 0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:19.880 Like no. But so then she goes, this is even stranger. 0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:22.720 She goes, I had moved from Ithaca and I couldn't 0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:28.760 fly my accountant out Like what, yeah, I guess people 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:31.120 are were there not even fax machines at this point? 0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:35.040 What are we I know about fax machines in a phone? 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:38.040 Oh yeah, I couldn't afford to fly my accountant down 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:38.719 from Ithaca. 0:53:38.880 --> 0:53:43.799 What. I just think that's season three to even be. 0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:46.640 To be an option of I'm flying my accountant in 0:53:46.920 --> 0:53:47.480 is crazy? 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:50.560 Yeah, So you offer to take her to lunch. So 0:53:50.680 --> 0:53:53.080 then while she's at work, he gets a call. She 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:55.560 gets a call from him saying that he accidentally double 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:58.040 booked and wanted to make it up to her by 0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:01.560 taking her to dinner, and he then but it cuts back, 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:03.560 so now it cuts to cement room bars. So now 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:05.759 we're going from woodroom blinds with her to cement room 0:54:05.800 --> 0:54:08.279 bars with him. And he's like, oh, dinner was her 0:54:08.360 --> 0:54:11.959 idea and she goes, well, things started getting weird, lots 0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:14.680 of questions about my personal life. And tonight he showed 0:54:14.719 --> 0:54:18.319 up at my apartment with flowers and she didn't want 0:54:18.320 --> 0:54:20.080 to let him in, but thought that she had to, 0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:22.600 you know, let him down gently for tax reasons, so 0:54:22.680 --> 0:54:24.920 he didn't fuck her in the audit. So now we 0:54:24.960 --> 0:54:27.520 have a chat session in the center room. Finn says 0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:29.879 that they searched his apartment and found a contact case 0:54:29.920 --> 0:54:33.040 with a single contact, so he hasn't gotten new contacts. 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:35.480 Like all of these don't make sense, like or like what, 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:39.759 So now he's just been blind this whole time. So 0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:43.720 then he also has a flower receipt to the store. 0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:47.160 He was setting up Roger with those flowers, and he 0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:49.279 did lawyer up, so they can't like talk to him 0:54:49.320 --> 0:54:51.680 right now, but you know, we have to find out 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:53.879 how we can keep him. We have to figure out 0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:56.160 how to make a case so he does not go home. 0:54:56.680 --> 0:54:58.800 So instead of the new murders, how about we relook 0:54:58.840 --> 0:55:01.239 at the old stuff and see, like when he was 0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:03.959 less experienced, if he fucked up and find some old 0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:07.040 crime evidence. So we find some DNA, but it's a 0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.440 mix of two DNA. Oh this is so this is 0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:13.040 honestly the craziest episode. It's like all of these tropes 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:16.239 all together. They don't make sense, Like nothing makes sense. 0:55:16.280 --> 0:55:18.520 So basically they find DNA, but it's a mix of 0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:21.440 two DNAs. So they have to separate the DNA with 0:55:21.520 --> 0:55:25.440 the victim and then like the suspect. So we need 0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:27.879 to but she's been buried for eighteen years, so we're 0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:29.200 gonna dig her up. 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:30.560 We're gonna digger up. 0:55:30.560 --> 0:55:32.440 We're not gonna get an old hair brush or clothes 0:55:32.520 --> 0:55:34.800 or like see if the parents have something, we're gonna 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:38.239 go straight to. Let's dig her up so we can 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:40.960 separate these DNAs. So they cut to two people that 0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:44.480 look like American Gothic. They say no, They're like, let 0:55:44.560 --> 0:55:47.160 Marsha rest in peace. But they try to convince her, 0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:49.279 and Hawkins is like, we know how difficult this is 0:55:49.320 --> 0:55:52.400 for you, and she says, no, you don't and that 0:55:52.600 --> 0:55:55.200 is true, like fuck you, Hawkins, and then you know, 0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:58.520 they plead with her, and they finally do convince the parents. 0:55:58.960 --> 0:56:02.040 So we see this casket getting pulled up from the ground. 0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:05.720 They got what they needed, they separate the DNA matches. 0:56:05.760 --> 0:56:08.800 So then they go to arrest him. They hear noises inside. 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:11.640 They break down the door like all guns open, they 0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:15.880 spin around, windows open. He's climbing up on the fire escape, 0:56:16.200 --> 0:56:19.120 so Hawkins climbs up and then Stabler follows as well. 0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:21.840 It's strange to climb up and not down for a 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:24.239 guilty man, but okay, So now we're on the roof 0:56:24.280 --> 0:56:27.640 and there's a chase. Stabler finally finds them. Arthur is 0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:30.680 hanging off the roof. John Hawkins is standing over him, 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:34.200 beauty in the Beast style, and he's gripping and like begging, 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:38.080 and Hawkins is stepping on his hands and Sailor's like, 0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:41.200 don't do it, and the man is screaming. Hawkins is 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:45.040 thinking Stabler's watching. They pull his ass up together and 0:56:45.200 --> 0:56:47.239 Hawkins is like, you're gonna let an old drunk man 0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:47.920 do the salon? 0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:48.880 Or are you're gonna help me? 0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:51.839 So then they pull his ass up together, they put 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:55.000 the hardware on his ass, and then yeah, they read 0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:58.879 him his rights. Dick wolf Baby. Honestly, like such an 0:56:58.880 --> 0:57:01.759 interesting story. I wish this was like a season seven 0:57:01.840 --> 0:57:04.080 episode because there's too many crazy things. 0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:07.240 Yeah, sometimes there's. 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:10.960 Digging, the body, the left hand thing, the contact, like, 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:13.879 I don't know, it's just it's a lot of goofiness. 0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:18.520 But such a good story. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:22.040 And you know, sadly based on a couple of real things, 0:57:23.400 --> 0:57:33.240 which we will get into now. This is based on 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:34.720 a couple cases. So the first one I'm going to 0:57:34.800 --> 0:57:37.920 talk about is the Albert de Salvo case, who was 0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:40.160 also known as the Boston Strangler. 0:57:40.640 --> 0:57:42.960 So in Boston this is like famous. 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:48.520 No, I there's other stranglers, the Hillside Strangler, there's like 0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:49.160 other ones. 0:57:49.360 --> 0:57:50.919 So I don't know how famous this. 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:56.800 One is because it's from like the sixties. And yeah, 0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:59.440 it's from the sixties, so I don't know. But I 0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:01.880 would say, like the majority of the big ones we've 0:58:01.880 --> 0:58:04.360 heard over like seventies, eighties, but this one's like earlier, 0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:06.960 so I don't know. But inn eighteen month period in 0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:11.280 Boston between nineteen sixty two and nineteen sixty four, so 0:58:11.480 --> 0:58:14.600 eighteen months, like a very short period of thirteen single 0:58:14.640 --> 0:58:20.200 women are found murdered strangemen also thirteen in an eighteen 0:58:20.200 --> 0:58:24.800 month period, which is a lot Strangely, the victims range 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:27.840 in age from like nineteen to eighty five, like they're 0:58:27.880 --> 0:58:31.600 from different socio economic backgrounds, different races, like which is 0:58:31.720 --> 0:58:34.200 you know, weird, Like most of these guys have like 0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:37.200 a type or like an mo or whatever. So most 0:58:37.200 --> 0:58:39.880 of the victims were sexually assaulted and strangled in their apartments, 0:58:40.200 --> 0:58:42.440 though the eldest victim did die of a heart attack. 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:45.880 At two were fatally stabbed. One was also horribly beaten. 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:47.720 I mean, they're obviously getting a lot of the details 0:58:47.760 --> 0:58:51.280 for the episode from this. The last victim was also 0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:54.480 the youngest, nineteen year old Mary Sullivan, found murdered in 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:57.400 her apartment on Charles Street in Beacon Hill, where you 0:58:57.440 --> 0:59:00.240 and I have been together at my friend's mother's place 0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:04.360 is three blocks from where this happened. There was no 0:59:04.400 --> 0:59:07.640 sign of force entry at any of the crime scenes, 0:59:07.720 --> 0:59:10.120 meaning the victims either knew their killer or he was 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:13.640 perhaps like a service person coming to repair something and 0:59:13.720 --> 0:59:16.000 authorities were looking for a single killer. 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:17.560 They did not think he worked with anybody. 0:59:18.440 --> 0:59:22.000 Even though this string of murders was amply covered in 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:24.960 the media, the cops were not close to catching him, 0:59:25.000 --> 0:59:27.600 like they had no idea who this was. Meanwhile, in 0:59:27.720 --> 0:59:30.720 late nineteen sixty four, the Boston police were trying to 0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:33.320 solve a bunch of rapes that had been committed by 0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:36.080 a purp that they called the Measuring Man, which, if 0:59:36.120 --> 0:59:39.720 you remember the episode or just look like one, was 0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:43.720 what they nicknamed this guy who would pretend that he 0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:45.800 was a modeling scout to lure women and then he 0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:48.560 would sexually assault them. But this purp was called the 0:59:48.600 --> 0:59:51.360 measuring Man or the green Man. That's who this rapist 0:59:51.440 --> 0:59:53.760 was that they're looking for. Around the same time in Boston, 0:59:54.160 --> 0:59:57.520 on October twenty seventh, a stranger entered a young woman's 0:59:57.520 --> 1:00:00.560 home in East Cambridge posing as a detective, tied her 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:02.880 to the bed, sexually assaulted her, and then left after 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:07.400 undoing her restraints and apologizing. The woman's description led police 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:10.960 to identify the assailant as Albert de Salvo. Once his 1:00:11.000 --> 1:00:13.520 photo was published, a lot of other women came forward 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:16.080 to id him as their rapist, and while he was 1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:18.920 being held in jail, for these rapes. He confessed to 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:23.040 another inmate named George Nasser that he was the Boston Strangler. 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:27.880 He isn't that the oh that's Larry Nasser. That's Larry Nasser. 1:00:28.160 --> 1:00:29.080 But I did think of that. 1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:33.440 He told this inmate allegedly that he was the Boston 1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:37.080 Strangler and told him all these grizzly details. Nasar tells 1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:40.280 his lawyer, who is da Da da Eth Lee Bailey, 1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:43.200 And you might recognize him as a member of O. J. 1:00:43.360 --> 1:00:47.160 Simpson's team of lawyers. He represented Patty Hurst like he was. 1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:50.040 He's like a big defense lawyer of our time. He 1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:52.080 just passed away like a few years ago, I think, 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:56.760 and he eventually became Dessalvo's lawyer. And the wild thing 1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:59.480 is DeSalvo was never tried for any of the murders. 1:01:00.000 --> 1:01:02.920 In nineteen sixty seven, he was sentenced to life in 1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:07.320 prison for the rapes as well as robbery charges, and 1:01:08.000 --> 1:01:10.800 he was in when he was I guess in prison, 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:14.640 he recanted his confession of the Boston Strangler deaths, and 1:01:15.000 --> 1:01:18.040 six years later, in nineteen seventy three, he was stabbed 1:01:18.040 --> 1:01:21.200 to death in his cell, allegedly by Robert Wilson, who 1:01:21.240 --> 1:01:22.840 was connected to the winter Hill Gang. 1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:25.600 I don't know much about them, but and. 1:01:25.520 --> 1:01:29.000 Then the Robert Wilson was tried for the murder and 1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:31.680 the trial ended in a hung jury. So no one 1:01:31.720 --> 1:01:35.000 pays for Disalvo's death. But also there have been a 1:01:35.000 --> 1:01:37.200 lot of what's kind of wild is that there have 1:01:37.240 --> 1:01:39.920 been a lot of theories that these crimes were committed 1:01:39.920 --> 1:01:42.320 by more than one person because the mos were different 1:01:42.360 --> 1:01:45.040 and like the you know, the victims were all different 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:49.600 ages and like backgrounds and stuff. Also, Dissalvo apparently got 1:01:49.640 --> 1:01:53.600 details wrong about the crimes. For example, he didn't strangle 1:01:53.680 --> 1:01:56.440 Sullivan with his bare hands, as he claimed, she was 1:01:56.440 --> 1:02:01.160 strangled by a ligature, so forensic pathologists Mike Golbaden our 1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:04.800 favorite also said that DeSalvo incorrectly stated the time of 1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:06.760 the victim's death, and he got that wrong with a 1:02:06.760 --> 1:02:10.680 few other murders as well. So there are some theories 1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:14.920 that Nasser was the strangler and that he gave Albert 1:02:15.040 --> 1:02:19.600 enough details for him to confess. Nasser said later, I 1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:22.400 guess told some news outlet. There's an interview with him 1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:24.760 from jail where he's like, oh, yeah, I broker the 1:02:24.760 --> 1:02:27.320 whole thing. I wanted Albert to confess and for flee 1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:29.320 Bailey to get him a book deal. Then we would 1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:31.160 all make a lot of money, and Albert went along 1:02:31.200 --> 1:02:34.720 with it. So there are also theories that he's behind 1:02:34.760 --> 1:02:39.080 Albert's jailhouse murder, so who knows. But in twenty thirteen, 1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:44.480 after all of this conjecture, Albert DeSalvo was definitively linked 1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:46.880 to one of the Boston Strangler murders, the murder of 1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:49.880 Mary Sullivan, so he definitely killed Mary. It's unclear whether 1:02:49.920 --> 1:02:53.000 he was responsible for all of these murders. In order 1:02:53.040 --> 1:02:55.880 to get his conviction, much like the episode, they had 1:02:55.920 --> 1:02:59.480 to exhume Mary's body for DNA testing, and that took 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:02.480 place in October of two thousand when the case was reopened. 1:03:02.840 --> 1:03:06.000 They exhumed Albert DeSalvo's body the following year, so two 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:08.720 thousand and one, and then for some reason, not until 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:10.880 twenty thirteen did they definitively link to. 1:03:10.880 --> 1:03:11.840 Salvo to Sullivan. 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:13.840 So it's like so funny in SVU when we get 1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:16.120 these DNA results back in ten minutes, and in other 1:03:16.200 --> 1:03:19.240 crimes it takes truly twelve years to even connect a 1:03:19.320 --> 1:03:23.760 victim and a murderer. So that's one case, the Boston 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:28.840 strangler case. Who's to say what actually happened with that one? 1:03:29.240 --> 1:03:32.840 This next one is crazy in so let me take 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:36.480 you back to Fort Lauderdale nineteen seventy nine. A string 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:38.880 of murders of young women rocked the community. But I'm 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:41.120 going to start out and tell you it's a black community. 1:03:41.400 --> 1:03:44.680 All the victims are black, and so this doesn't have 1:03:45.040 --> 1:03:47.160 nearly as much media coverage as you would expect it 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:50.040 would have had. July ninth, they find the body of 1:03:50.120 --> 1:03:53.800 Ernesty German twenty three near high school. July twenty seventh, 1:03:53.880 --> 1:03:58.040 Sonya Marion thirteen found in the exact same area. August seventh, 1:03:58.120 --> 1:04:00.880 Terry Gene Cummings twenty one, also you're the high school. 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:04.000 August twenty fourth, Kathy Moore twenty four, was found a 1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:07.240 few blocks from the high school. September second, Wanda Virga 1:04:07.280 --> 1:04:09.520 is raped and murdered in Miami. I didn't know this 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:11.280 until I just went there a year or so ago, 1:04:11.320 --> 1:04:13.560 But Miami and Fort Lauderdale are right there next to 1:04:13.600 --> 1:04:16.280 each other, so the Miami and Fort Lauderdale crimes are close. 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:22.360 September fifth, Jerry Frank Townsend twenty seven is arrested for 1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:26.600 sexual assault by police in Miami. He is intellectually disabled, 1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:29.080 with the mental capacity of an eight year old, they say, 1:04:29.520 --> 1:04:32.480 And police say that while he's being questioned in this 1:04:32.560 --> 1:04:36.480 sexual assault, he confessed to Wanda Virgo's murder. Soon the 1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:39.080 police tacked on charges for her and the other four 1:04:39.200 --> 1:04:43.000 murders and rapes that I just mentioned, and then they 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:45.600 claimed Townshend had confessed and had led them to the 1:04:45.640 --> 1:04:49.880 crime scenes. Days after mister Townshend confessed, the police discovered, 1:04:50.040 --> 1:04:52.280 much like in this episode, that he had an alibi 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:55.280 for Sonya Marian's murder. He had punched into work that 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:59.200 morning at his job, like at an auto mechanic, The 1:04:59.240 --> 1:05:02.840 police said. Townsend said he'd killed her the night before, 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:04.880 but her mother's like, no, she was with me the 1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:07.280 night before, she left for school the next morning and 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:09.720 that's the last time I saw her, So he's getting 1:05:09.720 --> 1:05:12.800 details incorrect. Within a few weeks of his arrest, Townsend 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:15.760 had admitted to the murders of thirteen women, including in 1:05:15.880 --> 1:05:19.200 Tampa and California, which he said he committed when working 1:05:19.280 --> 1:05:21.800 for a traveling carnival in nineteen seventy six. In nineteen 1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:24.760 seventy seven, I don't know about any of these California victims, 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:26.480 like they're not in any of the research that I found. 1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:30.920 But four of the other victims were from nineteen seventy 1:05:30.960 --> 1:05:34.480 three Thelma jen Bell, Naomi Gamble, who was only fifteen, 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:37.280 and Barbara Ann Brown, all in Fort Lauderdale, and then 1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:41.240 in nineteen seventy seven Dorothy Gibson, seventeen in Miami. Despite 1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:44.480 a psychiatric evaluation that put his IQ between fifty five 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:47.800 and sixty eight, which is below the level of intellectual disability, 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:51.240 he was declared competent to stand trial because America is 1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:54.400 fucking killing it. He went to trial for three of 1:05:54.400 --> 1:05:57.080 the rape murders, and the case was heavily relying on 1:05:57.120 --> 1:05:59.920 his confessions. The defense argued that the confessions were not 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:01.760 real and that Townshend just wanted to tell them what 1:06:01.800 --> 1:06:04.880 they wanted to hear, much like this guy in the 1:06:04.920 --> 1:06:08.480 episode July thirtieth of nineteen eighty. He is convicted for 1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:11.120 the murders of Naomi Gamble and Barbara am Brown, but 1:06:11.240 --> 1:06:14.080 acquitted for the murder of Thelma Gene Bell. He sentenced 1:06:14.120 --> 1:06:16.439 to life in prison, with the possibility of parole after 1:06:16.480 --> 1:06:19.880 twenty five years. I also don't understand the parole after 1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:22.960 like violent rapes and murders. I don't understand how parole 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:26.360 is a possibility. But it's the eighties. In eighty two, 1:06:26.480 --> 1:06:29.880 he pled guilty to murder in the deaths of Dorothy 1:06:29.880 --> 1:06:32.520 Gibson and Wanda Virga because this is now separate trial 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:35.440 because it's Miami. He also pled no contests to the 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:38.480 murders of Terry Gen Cummings and Kathy Moore got life again. 1:06:39.000 --> 1:06:41.560 They dropped the charges in the murders of Ernestine German 1:06:41.600 --> 1:06:44.320 and Sonia Marion. And he also pled guilty to that 1:06:44.600 --> 1:06:46.600 very first rape that brought him that the cops brought 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:47.040 him in for in. 1:06:47.080 --> 1:06:48.000 Nineteen seventy nine. 1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:51.800 So sixteen years later, in nineteen ninety eight, the family 1:06:51.800 --> 1:06:54.640 of Sonia Marion wants to reopen the case. She did 1:06:54.640 --> 1:06:57.920 not get justice because you know, they dropped the charges 1:06:58.400 --> 1:07:01.320 two years later in two in At this point, Townshend 1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:03.640 has been in jail for twenty years at least. The 1:07:03.720 --> 1:07:06.960 Innocence Project requests a DNA that the DNA in the 1:07:07.000 --> 1:07:10.520 case be tested, and huge shock, it does not match Townsend. 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:15.000 It matches a guy named Eddie Lee Moseley. So they 1:07:15.040 --> 1:07:17.680 obviously tested the DNA from other cases. He did not 1:07:17.840 --> 1:07:20.800 match the DNA in the Terry Jen Cummings case or 1:07:20.880 --> 1:07:24.400 Naomi Gamble, both were connected to Eddie Lee Moseley. There 1:07:24.560 --> 1:07:28.880 was not enough DNA or no DNA to test in 1:07:28.920 --> 1:07:31.320 the cases of Thelmagen Bell Barbara and Brown Kathy Moore 1:07:31.320 --> 1:07:34.880 in Ernestine, German And eventually, though, all of his convictions 1:07:34.880 --> 1:07:37.280 were vacated and dismissed, and he was released from prison 1:07:37.800 --> 1:07:39.920 at the age of forty nine in two thousand and 1:07:39.920 --> 1:07:42.040 one June sixteenth of two thousand and one, after almost 1:07:42.040 --> 1:07:44.800 twenty two years in prison. Because he was just an 1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:48.320 intellectually disabled man who the cops said, you did all 1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:49.960 this stuff, and he's like, I did all this stuff, 1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:51.800 and he just but he did sue the city of 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:54.160 Miami and he settled for four point two million dollars, so. 1:07:56.080 --> 1:07:57.280 A tiny silver lining. 1:07:57.880 --> 1:08:00.000 And if that is not fucked up enough for you, 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:02.640 Townsend was not the only guy who took the fall 1:08:02.680 --> 1:08:06.200 for Eddie Lee Moseley's crimes. Another man named Franklee Smith 1:08:06.520 --> 1:08:09.200 served fifteen years on death row for the murder and 1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:11.560 sexual assault of an eight year old girl in Fort 1:08:11.600 --> 1:08:14.920 Lauderdale in April of nineteen eighty five. Also, this man 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:18.759 was intellectually disabled. The girl's mother wrongfully identified him based 1:08:18.760 --> 1:08:21.720 solely on photos she'd been shown. There was no other 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:23.920 evidence linking him to this crime, but he was found 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:26.680 guilty and sentenced to death in nineteen eighty six. He 1:08:27.360 --> 1:08:30.680 had always claimed he was innocent, and then sadly he 1:08:30.840 --> 1:08:34.000 died of cancer on death row in two thousand and eleven. 1:08:34.000 --> 1:08:38.040 Months later, DNA exonerated him and pointed to you got it, 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:41.839 Eddie Lee Moseley. So I'd love to hear more information 1:08:41.880 --> 1:08:44.280 about how the death penalty is good because I'm not 1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:44.760 seeing it. 1:08:45.000 --> 1:08:47.000 So who is Eddie Lee Moseley. 1:08:47.680 --> 1:08:50.439 Eddie Lee Moseley is this absolute monster of the Fort 1:08:50.479 --> 1:08:53.040 Lauderdale community. He's thought to have raped as many as 1:08:53.080 --> 1:08:55.679 one hundred and fifty women and girls. He was also 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:59.280 suspected of murdering two young girls in the early seventies, 1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:02.679 but there wasn't an evidence. He was brought in after 1:09:02.720 --> 1:09:06.320 more than forty women identified him as their attacker. After 1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:09.599 one woman was able to get a description of him, 1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:12.680 and she identified him then from photos, and then after 1:09:12.800 --> 1:09:14.559 all the women saw the photo, forty women were like, 1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:18.280 that's the guy who attacked me. His psychiatric evaluation deemed 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:21.240 him as quote unquote insane. That's what's written everywhere I 1:09:21.240 --> 1:09:24.679 look him up. I'm sure that's not like a great term, 1:09:24.680 --> 1:09:27.799 but that's what they were saying. So he was committed 1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:30.280 to a state hospital where he spent five years, and 1:09:30.320 --> 1:09:33.000 while he was away, no similar crimes were were reported 1:09:33.360 --> 1:09:34.040 in that area. 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:36.200 But good news, they cured. 1:09:35.920 --> 1:09:38.519 Him and he was deemed no longer a danger to society, 1:09:38.560 --> 1:09:41.280 and he's released in nineteen seventy nine. He goes to 1:09:41.280 --> 1:09:43.599 live with his parents, and over the next seven months, 1:09:43.640 --> 1:09:46.800 seven young girls are raped and murdered, all near his parents' house. 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:49.640 The following year, he's worried that the cops are on 1:09:49.720 --> 1:09:52.320 too him. I don't understand after two of these murders, 1:09:52.360 --> 1:09:53.400 how they're not finding the sky. 1:09:53.520 --> 1:09:55.080 But again, it is the late seventies. 1:09:55.720 --> 1:09:59.080 I guess there's not as much CCTV or DNA and 1:09:59.120 --> 1:10:01.120 all kinds of ways that we catch people now. But 1:10:01.520 --> 1:10:06.120 the following year he moves to Lakeland, Florida. There he 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:09.200 is very quickly questioned about the disappearance of two young girls, 1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:11.080 but he's let go because they never found the bodies. 1:10:11.360 --> 1:10:13.760 He goes back to Fort Lauderdale. He gets arrested for 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:15.920 an attempted rape and he's found guilty and sentence to 1:10:15.960 --> 1:10:19.439 fifteen years. While in prison, they do find the bones 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:21.880 of these two missing girls. It does not say whether 1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:24.200 they actually link them to him, but I'm going to 1:10:24.240 --> 1:10:25.000 say probably. 1:10:25.400 --> 1:10:27.120 He was also a terror in prison. 1:10:27.200 --> 1:10:30.439 He attacked other inmates physically and sexually, threatened to burn 1:10:30.439 --> 1:10:34.120 the place down, like just the usual, like just you know, 1:10:35.280 --> 1:10:39.439 wild prison character. But his family hired a lawyer and 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:42.960 they got his conviction overturned because his lawyer never got 1:10:43.000 --> 1:10:47.439 him a psych exam, which is like, what's going on. 1:10:47.520 --> 1:10:49.759 That's incompetence, Like why would you not have your client 1:10:50.080 --> 1:10:54.120 examined when he's got a history, which he does, by 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:56.840 the way, he has a history of mental instability and 1:10:56.960 --> 1:10:59.400 into intellectual disability, Like you I don't understan, why you 1:10:59.400 --> 1:11:03.200 wouldnt give an exam? Feels very amateur. He gets a 1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:05.880 new trial and there the judge gives him a shorter sentence, 1:11:05.880 --> 1:11:07.920 and since he'd already done three years, they let him 1:11:07.920 --> 1:11:11.320 out on parole. The system works. Now it's nineteen eighty 1:11:11.360 --> 1:11:14.680 four and Mosley's the suspect in the murders of Geraldine Barfield, 1:11:14.680 --> 1:11:17.559 age thirty six, and Emma Cook, age fifty four, both 1:11:17.640 --> 1:11:21.439 raped and then suffocated. The same year, he's arrested for 1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:23.600 raping a twenty two year old and he pleads not 1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:26.680 guilty at trial, claiming that the sex was consensual, and 1:11:26.720 --> 1:11:28.880 his lawyers got the jury to believe that even though 1:11:28.920 --> 1:11:32.760 this man has a long, long rap sheet. This is 1:11:32.800 --> 1:11:35.400 how much women are not believed, especially in the fucking 1:11:35.479 --> 1:11:38.920 early eighties. He was acquitted, and he's once again let 1:11:38.960 --> 1:11:41.080 out into the world. And I do wonder if this 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:43.280 guy was accused of killing old white men, if perhaps 1:11:43.280 --> 1:11:44.800 they would not have been so quick to let him go. 1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:48.360 But because he's killing mostly black women and girls, it 1:11:48.360 --> 1:11:52.400 doesn't matter. After he commits two more murders, I've honestly 1:11:52.520 --> 1:11:54.280 lost track of how many he did and how many 1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:56.680 he was suspected of at this point, but I want 1:11:56.720 --> 1:11:59.120 to assume that he did all the ones he was 1:11:59.160 --> 1:12:02.800 accused of. The local authorities finally call the FBI, after 1:12:03.040 --> 1:12:06.040 like a decade of this man terrorizing the area. They're like, 1:12:06.120 --> 1:12:09.439 let's bring in the experts now. So the FBI built 1:12:09.560 --> 1:12:12.120 like does up a profile, and obviously it fits Eddie 1:12:12.160 --> 1:12:15.280 Lee Moseley, Like you know, they figure it's like it's 1:12:15.320 --> 1:12:18.920 this guy. In eighty seven, he's once again the suspect 1:12:19.080 --> 1:12:21.560 and rape and of a rape and murder by strangulation 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:26.960 of central love age twenty four and months later he 1:12:27.200 --> 1:12:29.280 but again they keep going he's a suspect, But then 1:12:29.479 --> 1:12:31.160 they never say whether he gets brought in for all this. 1:12:31.280 --> 1:12:34.599 He's getting questioned, but I think maybe there's simply he's 1:12:34.600 --> 1:12:37.720 not leaving DNA, or he's just like not leaving yor 1:12:37.760 --> 1:12:40.599 just not figuring it out. Months later, he is arrested 1:12:40.640 --> 1:12:44.760 for theft, and by then they had finally matched his 1:12:44.800 --> 1:12:47.519 blood type to seamen that they had found on murder victims, 1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:51.040 which was eventually a match. So they bring Moseley in. 1:12:51.160 --> 1:12:53.559 They confront him about his involvement in all these crimes 1:12:53.640 --> 1:12:56.200 after almost two decades at this point, and he tries 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:58.920 to defend himself. He's making up alibis, like he's fucking 1:12:59.000 --> 1:13:01.439 up details, he's fucking up dates like they it's him. 1:13:01.840 --> 1:13:04.680 Eventually he confesses to the murders of Teresa Giles and 1:13:04.720 --> 1:13:09.120 Emma Cook. He stood trial in nineteen eighty seven. Numerous 1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:13.000 Fort Lauderdale's sex workers testified that he was aggressive towards them, 1:13:13.120 --> 1:13:16.320 that he would like attack women with like with impunity, 1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:18.439 like in big crowds, like in front of other people. 1:13:18.479 --> 1:13:19.720 He was not scared to do it. 1:13:20.400 --> 1:13:23.000 And much like Townsend, the man who served at who 1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:26.439 he's like getting with every Yeah, he's getting away with it. 1:13:26.960 --> 1:13:30.439 But much like Townsend and Smith, the two men who 1:13:31.080 --> 1:13:34.880 you know took the fall for his crimes, he had 1:13:34.880 --> 1:13:37.360 an IQ found to be fifty one, which is below 1:13:37.439 --> 1:13:40.160 the average intelligence rate, and therefore he was deemed not 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:43.559 competent to stand trial. I have no idea why Smith 1:13:43.680 --> 1:13:46.760 was not afforded that same or Townshend were afforded that 1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:49.799 same thing. But this guy seemed maybe has better lawyers 1:13:49.840 --> 1:13:53.080 because he was deemed not competent to stand trial. And 1:13:53.120 --> 1:13:55.000 so in October of eighty seven he sent to a 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:58.479 Florida State hospital and he's there for a long time. 1:13:58.600 --> 1:14:01.640 Finally in two thousand, gets tested and he's connected with 1:14:01.720 --> 1:14:04.120 a ton of murders, most of the ones that I 1:14:04.160 --> 1:14:07.240 mentioned before. Then twenty nine year old Loretta Young Brown 1:14:07.320 --> 1:14:09.320 killed in eighty four, thirty four year old that a 1:14:09.400 --> 1:14:13.000 Turner killed in seventy three, thirteen year old Sonya Marian 1:14:13.120 --> 1:14:16.120 who was the one who we mentioned earlier. Her family 1:14:16.320 --> 1:14:19.200 never got justice originally, and then finally she was connected 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:21.720 to him. Twenty one year old Terry Gene Cummings who 1:14:21.720 --> 1:14:24.519 I mentioned, and then Emma Cook and Teresa Giles who 1:14:24.520 --> 1:14:27.320 he confessed to, as well as eight year old Chandra 1:14:27.360 --> 1:14:31.040 Whitehead who was the young girl who's murder and sexual assault. 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:33.280 Frankly Smith spent the rest of his life serving time 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:37.240 for so. Fort Lauderdale police wanted to arrest Mosley for 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:40.559 these murders, but psych psychiatric tests like he's in he's 1:14:40.600 --> 1:14:43.120 basically in the mental hospital, and Fort Lauderdale's like, no, 1:14:43.120 --> 1:14:44.600 we want to arrest him for these murders, but the 1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:47.760 psychiatric tests that they're giving him still continue to find him, 1:14:48.320 --> 1:14:50.280 like you know, incompetent to stand trial. 1:14:50.320 --> 1:14:51.839 So he remains at a mental hospital. 1:14:52.200 --> 1:14:55.799 During his treatment there, he is apparently a model patient, 1:14:56.200 --> 1:15:01.280 friendly followed rules, got into no trouble so and in 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:04.800 treatment this is a person who would likely not have 1:15:04.800 --> 1:15:07.960 committed these crimes. And he was eventually transferred to a 1:15:08.000 --> 1:15:10.040 low risk unit and was allowed to leave the hospital 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:13.000 on supervised visits to Walmart, and he remained in mental 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:15.920 health facilities until he died in May of twenty twenty 1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:18.560 of COVID in one of these facilities. 1:15:19.000 --> 1:15:21.040 So there is, like I. 1:15:21.000 --> 1:15:24.599 Said, wildly not a lot of information about these this case. 1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:27.880 Like there's some a lot of Florida cential articles, some 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:31.960 I could get to somewhere behind a bay wall. Also, these, 1:15:32.600 --> 1:15:34.800 like I said, these crimes were all perpetrated on black 1:15:34.840 --> 1:15:37.120 women and girls by black men in a black area 1:15:37.160 --> 1:15:39.120 Fort Lauderdale. So I don't think the media gave it 1:15:39.200 --> 1:15:41.200 the coverage that it would have if it was like 1:15:41.680 --> 1:15:44.080 I mean, this is like Ted Bundy levels of murderers 1:15:44.120 --> 1:15:49.000 and sexual assaults. But also every single person either committing 1:15:49.040 --> 1:15:51.920 these crimes or being accused of them was intellectually disabled, 1:15:51.960 --> 1:15:55.000 like Eddie Lee Mosley. Even though I agree he committed 1:15:55.040 --> 1:15:58.280 these horrific crimes, he was exhibiting signs of mental instability 1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:01.840 and in inellectual disability his entire life. 1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:02.960 Like as a child, he. 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:09.240 Had learning disorders, and he had an entarot grade amnesia 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:11.719 which caused him to struggle in school. He was forced 1:16:11.760 --> 1:16:14.320 out of school in third grade. He's from low income, 1:16:14.640 --> 1:16:17.960 he lives in terrible conditions, and so he obviously turns 1:16:18.000 --> 1:16:20.479 to a life of crime eventually, So it's kind of 1:16:21.720 --> 1:16:23.920 I mean eventually, it's like it really just feels like 1:16:23.960 --> 1:16:27.240 it's a failure of like the system to get these 1:16:28.800 --> 1:16:31.200 this failure of the justice system that two of these 1:16:31.200 --> 1:16:32.840 men went to jail for crimes they didn't come in 1:16:32.880 --> 1:16:35.240 and then it's a failure from Eddie Lee Moseley that 1:16:35.280 --> 1:16:38.760 he was never given any like mental health support and 1:16:38.960 --> 1:16:44.200 became a serial killer and rapist. So anyway, that's that 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:47.360 on that And so it wasn't like unlike the episode 1:16:47.400 --> 1:16:50.040 where this guy is calculated, Like I don't think Eddie 1:16:50.120 --> 1:16:52.120 Lee Moseley was like, oh cool, like these guys are 1:16:52.120 --> 1:16:53.640 going down for my crimes. I think it was like 1:16:53.720 --> 1:16:58.639 a coincidence and you know, racism that they just grabbed 1:16:58.640 --> 1:17:02.000 a different guy for this crime. But it's like it's 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:03.760 different from the episode in the sense that like it 1:17:03.840 --> 1:17:06.600 wasn't this mastermind who like moved to other states and 1:17:06.640 --> 1:17:08.839 then like started working after the guy got paroled. 1:17:10.479 --> 1:17:15.639 Damn. But that's that. Yeah, so many victims, so. 1:17:15.720 --> 1:17:20.800 Many, But I know that was really depressing. But we 1:17:20.880 --> 1:17:32.479 do have a guest coming up, so let's cleanse the ballot. Okay, guys, 1:17:32.600 --> 1:17:35.640 a lot of you have been begging for guests, and 1:17:35.680 --> 1:17:39.599 guests are back. Our guest today is a prolific film 1:17:39.640 --> 1:17:42.840 and television actor. He was the lead in several movies 1:17:42.880 --> 1:17:45.439 in the eighties, like The Lords of Discipline and White 1:17:45.479 --> 1:17:48.160 of the Eye. He also starred in films like Firestarter 1:17:48.280 --> 1:17:50.360 with Drew Barrymore and An Officer and a Gentleman. 1:17:50.680 --> 1:17:51.679 But you know him. 1:17:51.520 --> 1:17:56.599 Best as the unhinged cop who doesn't follow the rules 1:17:57.080 --> 1:18:01.479 John Hawk Hawkins. Please enjoy our chat with David Keith. 1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:05.360 You've been on Law and Order Criminal Intent as well. 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:08.759 You've been on SVU, Like when you first were casts 1:18:08.760 --> 1:18:11.000 on this episode in season three, did you ever in 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:13.519 a million years think that they'd be currently in season 1:18:13.560 --> 1:18:15.880 twenty six. I mean, like, this is one of the 1:18:15.920 --> 1:18:18.840 longest running live shows of all time. 1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:21.479 I mean, it's got a built in audience that will 1:18:21.760 --> 1:18:22.559 never go away. 1:18:22.720 --> 1:18:24.840 And yeah, we're we're right here. 1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:31.240 We're assuming this was an offer only there was no auditioning. 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:36.080 Correct correct, Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was, but I 1:18:36.120 --> 1:18:40.680 can't remember for sure. But yeah, I hadn't done a 1:18:40.720 --> 1:18:45.200 lot of episodic at that point. But the script was 1:18:45.320 --> 1:18:47.760 just great. I mean I read the script and just 1:18:47.920 --> 1:18:51.040 loved it. And that's a part of a longer story 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:53.559 that we'll get to. When we started tell us that. 1:18:55.360 --> 1:18:58.760 Different stuff, tell us tell us. 1:18:58.520 --> 1:19:02.400 Well, you know how when you're in episodic TV, okay, 1:19:02.439 --> 1:19:05.639 you get the white pages first, and that's the one 1:19:05.720 --> 1:19:09.400 from an actual writer, one of the writers on staff, 1:19:10.320 --> 1:19:13.960 and it was terrific. Well, as soon as the colored pages, 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:16.800 the pink and the grain and the blues started coming in, 1:19:17.400 --> 1:19:19.680 and it was it had been you know, there were 1:19:19.800 --> 1:19:25.920 some dialogue changes from I guess the studio. Nobody ever 1:19:25.960 --> 1:19:29.320 told us who, but they said, and it started kind 1:19:29.320 --> 1:19:35.040 of diluting the what I thought the original story was. 1:19:35.080 --> 1:19:37.600 It just it didn't have the same impact. 1:19:38.360 --> 1:19:44.080 And so, being a you know, spoiled movie actor, I 1:19:44.320 --> 1:19:49.479 started complaining about that. And and Ted Kotcheff, who was 1:19:49.560 --> 1:19:53.840 directing us. You know, Ted was the I don't know 1:19:53.880 --> 1:19:55.640 what they call it, but he was the he was 1:19:55.680 --> 1:19:57.719 the main director for the series. 1:19:57.800 --> 1:20:01.160 So he was there all the time and he direct maybe. 1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:04.440 Two three episodes a season, and then he would oversee 1:20:04.479 --> 1:20:08.479 the different episodic directors that would come in. So Ted 1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:12.080 was directing this episode and he agreed with me one 1:20:13.200 --> 1:20:17.000 hundred percent on the white pages. So it became white. 1:20:17.040 --> 1:20:19.960 Every morning I'd carry around those white pages and I say, 1:20:20.080 --> 1:20:22.400 this is what I'd like to say. He'd say, do it, 1:20:22.560 --> 1:20:26.800 say it, and that the next time I was going 1:20:26.800 --> 1:20:27.559 a law in order. 1:20:28.120 --> 1:20:30.200 As soon as I suggested. 1:20:29.720 --> 1:20:35.240 One change, I was told, no change whatsoever. You say 1:20:35.280 --> 1:20:38.040 what's on the page. So it didn't I guess it 1:20:38.080 --> 1:20:41.479 didn't go over well with the the you know, the 1:20:41.520 --> 1:20:42.160 big wigs. 1:20:42.200 --> 1:20:45.759 But on that one we ended up shooting the white pages. 1:20:45.880 --> 1:20:49.280 So it was well that Ted was on your side too. 1:20:50.320 --> 1:20:53.360 Yeah, you got to go with great. I loved working 1:20:53.400 --> 1:20:53.760 with him. 1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:56.280 Do you remember some of the things that you hated? 1:20:56.520 --> 1:20:58.439 What were they trying to do? I'm glad you stuck 1:20:58.520 --> 1:21:01.520 to your guns, because we love the I don't. 1:21:02.880 --> 1:21:09.120 Remember. I remember there was one line that Chris has 1:21:09.760 --> 1:21:12.880 when they first talk about me coming into the case, 1:21:13.360 --> 1:21:18.240 and he says it's something about yeah, this is wide. Yes, 1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:22.880 that line vanished and I said I want that line back, 1:21:23.640 --> 1:21:26.840 and Chris didn't really like it, and because he thought 1:21:26.840 --> 1:21:28.679 it was like pumping me up too much or something. 1:21:28.720 --> 1:21:31.519 I said, no, man, it's sarcasm. Yes, this guy's a 1:21:31.560 --> 1:21:34.479 loose cannon, and that says he's a loose cannon because 1:21:34.760 --> 1:21:38.840 why it over was a total loose cannon. Yeah, you know, 1:21:38.920 --> 1:21:45.479 he wasn't some law abiding you know, Marshall. So that line, 1:21:45.720 --> 1:21:48.800 you know, Chris greed and we've got that line back 1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:50.120 in but I don't remember the rest. 1:21:50.640 --> 1:21:53.200 That's a great memory because that line. 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:55.960 Talked about it when we did the recap of the episode, like, 1:21:56.640 --> 1:21:59.360 you know, you you come in and we're like, how 1:21:59.360 --> 1:21:59.800 does he know? 1:22:00.200 --> 1:22:01.120 Are they old partners? 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:01.200 Like? 1:22:01.200 --> 1:22:02.680 And then you find out he took his class at 1:22:02.680 --> 1:22:06.040 the academy. But you're right like right away, you know, oh, 1:22:06.080 --> 1:22:08.439 this is like a guy that one of these guest 1:22:08.439 --> 1:22:10.960 stars that comes in and plays by his own rules, 1:22:11.080 --> 1:22:11.800 you know, and. 1:22:12.040 --> 1:22:13.519 That you just says it right there. 1:22:13.560 --> 1:22:17.200 So glad you want for that line because it definitely 1:22:17.320 --> 1:22:18.280 still works. 1:22:18.840 --> 1:22:21.200 Yeah, and yeah you were a dressed in all black. 1:22:21.280 --> 1:22:23.320 Did you know any of the actors beforehand? 1:22:24.240 --> 1:22:24.439 No? 1:22:24.920 --> 1:22:28.840 Oh yeah yeah yeah Belzer Belser, Yeah, we did a 1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:31.400 movie in nineteen ninety in Miami called. 1:22:33.200 --> 1:22:37.599 Oh Crap. It was with Cindy lawper Cool. 1:22:37.640 --> 1:22:39.040 Oh my gosh. Wow. 1:22:39.240 --> 1:22:41.400 Yeah, she's married to one of the lawyers on the 1:22:41.439 --> 1:22:45.799 show which where oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a recurring lawyer. 1:22:45.880 --> 1:22:46.519 Her husband. 1:22:47.200 --> 1:22:48.080 Is that David? 1:22:48.760 --> 1:22:51.439 Yes, yes, see David. 1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:53.559 David had a small part in the movie too, and 1:22:53.600 --> 1:22:55.759 he was down there all the time and we became friends. 1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:57.599 But I haven't talked to I haven't talked. 1:22:57.360 --> 1:23:00.560 To I ran into Cindy at the d n C, 1:23:02.680 --> 1:23:07.280 but I haven't I haven't reconnected with David. But yeah, 1:23:07.360 --> 1:23:11.120 that's that's how I knew Belzer, and we've remained friends. 1:23:11.200 --> 1:23:13.800 So we went out to dinner, and you know, I 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:16.160 just love Belzer. I love being around him. I love 1:23:16.200 --> 1:23:17.360 here and everything he says. 1:23:17.560 --> 1:23:20.479 I love him politically, Yeah, you know, he just he's 1:23:20.600 --> 1:23:22.320 just one of my heroes. 1:23:22.640 --> 1:23:24.719 Often running nineteen ninety one. 1:23:24.800 --> 1:23:25.320 That's it. 1:23:25.479 --> 1:23:27.280 Yeah, often running our producer. 1:23:28.000 --> 1:23:31.160 I think the original titles Moon over Miami and they 1:23:31.240 --> 1:23:31.600 changed it. 1:23:31.840 --> 1:23:36.639 Okay, Okay, the cover is so cute. It's a drawing 1:23:36.680 --> 1:23:37.360 of you guys. 1:23:38.200 --> 1:23:41.000 Yeah, those drawings are always really great. 1:23:42.600 --> 1:23:44.360 You I love it. 1:23:46.040 --> 1:23:49.280 Well, now I'm seeing the two Jakes in here. That's wild. 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:51.000 I was just talking about film Newark. Someone told me 1:23:51.000 --> 1:23:53.080 to watch Chinatown today. I can't even believe it. 1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:56.519 Watched Chinatown and watch the two Jakes back to back. 1:23:56.600 --> 1:23:59.639 I can't wait because they're what. 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:03.920 Well, there is a twenty year sequel. 1:24:04.000 --> 1:24:09.559 Twenty years later, Jack plays the same character, and I'm 1:24:09.600 --> 1:24:12.599 the son. I played the son who's now a detective 1:24:12.640 --> 1:24:17.080 of one of the original Nemesis Police Nemesis of Jack's character, 1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:21.839 Jake Gidtis And yeah, but you know, Jack wrote that script, 1:24:21.880 --> 1:24:25.479 so it's man, it's as hard to follow as sitting 1:24:25.640 --> 1:24:31.960 with him in a long conversations it is. It's I 1:24:32.040 --> 1:24:34.040 read the script and when I went to see the movie, 1:24:34.080 --> 1:24:38.200 I was like, now, what, Oh, yeah, you know. Yeah, 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:43.559 it's very very meticulously built, and that a lot of 1:24:44.040 --> 1:24:48.639 you know, misleading information intentionally, so it's an interesting movie. 1:24:48.880 --> 1:24:50.200 Wow. Cool. 1:24:50.280 --> 1:24:52.439 I got to watch that. I've seen Chinatown, but not 1:24:52.479 --> 1:24:54.719 the two Jakes. I got to watch that, and. 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:57.240 I loved working with Jack. He directed it as well, 1:24:57.280 --> 1:25:01.440 and he's the reason I became an actor. His performance 1:25:01.479 --> 1:25:05.880 An Easy Writer is when I switched from wanting to 1:25:05.880 --> 1:25:08.360 be a trial lawyer to wanting to be an actor. 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:09.120 Wow. 1:25:09.160 --> 1:25:11.559 When he did that little role an Easy Writer, I 1:25:11.640 --> 1:25:15.200 just went, I can do that. That's the kind of 1:25:15.240 --> 1:25:17.439 actor I want to be. I never really wanted to 1:25:17.439 --> 1:25:19.920 be a leading man. Of course, Jack's both. He's a 1:25:20.040 --> 1:25:23.439 character leading man and that's it's always the dream. But 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:27.400 there's just so many, so much room for character leading men. 1:25:27.520 --> 1:25:29.479 You know, they either have to be good looking or 1:25:30.520 --> 1:25:31.880 o never both. 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:34.320 Oh god, cool. 1:25:34.560 --> 1:25:36.840 So when you get on set or you meet Jack, 1:25:36.960 --> 1:25:38.880 did you meet him before? Do you let him know 1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:40.960 like you're the reason I become an actor? Or do 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:42.519 you kind of keep it cool? 1:25:43.080 --> 1:25:45.080 No? No, No, I told him he was the reason I 1:25:45.160 --> 1:25:48.880 became an actor. But that was several years before, maybe 1:25:48.880 --> 1:25:50.280 a decade before, when I met. 1:25:50.240 --> 1:25:53.800 Him at on the Rocks, lou Adler's place on Sunset. 1:25:54.760 --> 1:25:57.439 I was there with my manager, Aaron Russ Russo, and 1:25:57.520 --> 1:26:01.120 he introduced me to Jack, and you know, we saw 1:26:01.160 --> 1:26:03.920 each other off and on. We were always you know, 1:26:04.000 --> 1:26:07.519 I was always pulling for Doctor J in the seventy 1:26:07.560 --> 1:26:10.200 six ers and he was with Showtime and the Lakers. 1:26:10.400 --> 1:26:13.000 So when they played in eighty three, we were we 1:26:13.000 --> 1:26:14.400 were across the court from each. 1:26:14.280 --> 1:26:18.160 Other, you know, talking trash. 1:26:17.479 --> 1:26:20.840 And you know, we well, we talked about sports more 1:26:20.880 --> 1:26:22.519 than really movies. 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:26.559 Yeah. And I see you're wearing a ball's hat, right. 1:26:27.000 --> 1:26:27.640 You got it right. 1:26:27.640 --> 1:26:31.599 I'm so glad you didn't say Texas because people see 1:26:31.600 --> 1:26:32.840 the orange, they see the tea. 1:26:33.000 --> 1:26:35.680 They see Texas and I say, bite your tongue. So 1:26:35.720 --> 1:26:38.040 I'm glad to see my husband. 1:26:38.240 --> 1:26:40.880 My husband moved to Knoxville halfway through high school and 1:26:40.880 --> 1:26:43.200 finished high school there, and my brother in law still 1:26:43.200 --> 1:26:46.320 lives there. So I've been in Knoxville a bunch of times. Yeah, yeah, 1:26:46.400 --> 1:26:48.920 I found a bunch. It's really it's a it's a 1:26:48.960 --> 1:26:51.400 great tone. Yeah, But I've been there on game day 1:26:51.439 --> 1:26:55.120 where it's like the streets are like empty because everyone's 1:26:55.160 --> 1:26:55.800 just at the game. 1:26:55.840 --> 1:26:58.840 And then you just see all the burnt orange color 1:26:58.880 --> 1:26:59.280 come out. 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:06.519 Not burnt what is Texas? Well, it's just regular orange orange. Yeah, 1:27:06.840 --> 1:27:09.760 And it's the color of an orange peel, really, and 1:27:10.160 --> 1:27:14.519 and all the other oranges like Syracuse are that you know, 1:27:15.080 --> 1:27:19.360 traffic cone orange, and Clemson and all they're they're that, 1:27:20.320 --> 1:27:23.799 you know, very bright orange, and we're a little more muted. 1:27:24.080 --> 1:27:27.000 But Ora, you know where the color came from. 1:27:27.080 --> 1:27:30.439 It actually came for the yellow and white daisies that 1:27:30.600 --> 1:27:33.719 grew on up on airshol back in the eighteen hundreds 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:37.000 when the team was first founded, and they took those. 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:39.960 So it was a yellow orange yellow at first and 1:27:40.000 --> 1:27:41.680 then darkened as the years went on. 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:43.320 That's that's where they actually go. 1:27:43.600 --> 1:27:46.400 Are a historian of the Valls. I love that. 1:27:46.640 --> 1:27:50.479 Well, the thing around here is the falls are too 1:27:50.560 --> 1:27:58.320 important to enjoys. It transcends funk because it's like having 1:27:58.360 --> 1:28:04.120 a close relative major surgery every Friday, and will they 1:28:04.200 --> 1:28:07.559 live or it's just you know, my father, you didn't 1:28:07.560 --> 1:28:10.559 go around until about Wednesday if Tennessee lost a football game, 1:28:11.439 --> 1:28:15.080 And it's just my grandfather's were going, you know, shortly 1:28:15.120 --> 1:28:18.200 after the turn of the century, and our tickets have 1:28:18.240 --> 1:28:23.040 been We've had these same tickets for four generations. Now 1:28:23.120 --> 1:28:28.519 my kids are the fourth generation. And did they go there, Well, 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:32.760 my son's thirteen, but my daughter's twenty three, and she 1:28:33.439 --> 1:28:35.680 recently got a theater degree and has moved to New 1:28:35.720 --> 1:28:37.320 York and trying to be an actress. 1:28:37.800 --> 1:28:38.439 She went there. 1:28:38.720 --> 1:28:42.920 Yeah, I think he probably will too. I do have 1:28:43.040 --> 1:28:46.320 one other interesting you know, I thought we'd be talking 1:28:46.360 --> 1:28:50.879 about SVU. Well we were there, so I had planned 1:28:50.960 --> 1:28:53.080 you know, the script, the script part. 1:28:53.160 --> 1:28:56.040 So Ted, as I said, was directing this episode. 1:28:56.200 --> 1:29:00.160 And this was at the end of a shoot that 1:29:00.320 --> 1:29:04.400 instead of one season, they shot two seasons with no hiatus. 1:29:05.000 --> 1:29:10.400 WHOA and the cast was just. 1:29:12.520 --> 1:29:16.200 It was just exhausted. They were sick of it. 1:29:16.280 --> 1:29:19.160 They wanted a break, and this was the last show. 1:29:20.439 --> 1:29:24.240 So Ted comes in and he shoots this thing like 1:29:24.320 --> 1:29:29.080 a movie. I mean more setups per day, Like you'd 1:29:29.080 --> 1:29:31.759 think you'd finish the scene and he'd have like six 1:29:31.880 --> 1:29:35.080 more angles he wanted to shoot. And I was loving 1:29:35.080 --> 1:29:39.280 it because to me, what I dreaded about TV was 1:29:39.320 --> 1:29:41.400 that it would just be, you know, shoot a master, 1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:44.679 shoot four close ups and move on. And he shot 1:29:44.720 --> 1:29:49.719 it like a like a like an expensive movie, and 1:29:49.920 --> 1:29:52.559 so it was really wearing the kids out there, long 1:29:52.720 --> 1:29:56.840 long days, fourteen fifteen sixteen hour days, and the cast 1:29:56.920 --> 1:30:02.040 was just over it. And I was like, yeah, oh yeah, 1:30:02.080 --> 1:30:02.840 I was thinking of that. 1:30:02.920 --> 1:30:04.479 I know, if you'd have time to do it all, 1:30:04.560 --> 1:30:05.559 we have time to do it. 1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:09.280 So I was in heaven with Ted working our asses often, 1:30:10.200 --> 1:30:13.679 but the rest cast of not so much. 1:30:14.400 --> 1:30:19.000 Well, it probably helps Sabler's character, but also Saylor's kind 1:30:19.000 --> 1:30:21.840 of over it during all this. You know, Maloney is 1:30:22.000 --> 1:30:24.799 like annoyed with the like he's in a bad mood. 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:26.760 So maybe a little bit. 1:30:26.880 --> 1:30:27.080 Yeah. 1:30:27.120 --> 1:30:30.960 Well, you know, they were always great to me and 1:30:30.960 --> 1:30:33.559 always friendly with me, and you know, it was never 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:38.519 like oh, David's on Ted's side, but you know, and 1:30:38.520 --> 1:30:41.120 I told him, I said, look, man, you know, i 1:30:41.160 --> 1:30:43.439 haven't worked in two or three months and I'm just 1:30:43.600 --> 1:30:46.720 digging this and christ just goes, yeah, but we are 1:30:47.160 --> 1:30:48.639 just so tired. 1:30:48.840 --> 1:30:51.599 Yeah yeah, I said, I got it, buddy, I got it. 1:30:51.640 --> 1:30:54.479 But you know, so I was hopping around the set, 1:30:54.640 --> 1:30:57.519 you know, happier in a big and poop. 1:30:58.040 --> 1:30:58.479 Yeah. 1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:00.680 Well, we've talked to a couple of the regulars that 1:31:00.800 --> 1:31:02.760 said that, like, that's what's so great about the way 1:31:02.800 --> 1:31:05.200 that the show is set up like that, guest stars 1:31:05.240 --> 1:31:07.679 come in with all this energy and like new energy 1:31:07.720 --> 1:31:09.680 for them all the time, you know, so that they 1:31:09.720 --> 1:31:12.160 didn't get bored with I think doing the same kind 1:31:12.200 --> 1:31:14.519 of show and like a procedural and you know, the 1:31:14.560 --> 1:31:16.840 same cast, Like they get people like you that come 1:31:16.880 --> 1:31:19.360 in and are like, yeah, you know, so, I bet you, 1:31:19.840 --> 1:31:22.120 I bet you helped their energy levels a little bit. 1:31:22.760 --> 1:31:25.800 Well yeas. And also shot like a movie. I mean 1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:27.240 it was told kind of like a movie. 1:31:27.360 --> 1:31:29.280 Will you tell us do you remember shooting the scene 1:31:29.320 --> 1:31:32.439 where you finally have come to terms the innocent man 1:31:32.520 --> 1:31:36.679 is in jail, You're drinking, there's bottles, there's papers, it's 1:31:36.680 --> 1:31:37.320 all hitting you. 1:31:39.160 --> 1:31:41.360 I remember, I remember shooting a scene. It was the 1:31:41.439 --> 1:31:42.639 last shot of the night. 1:31:43.400 --> 1:31:47.400 And I was kind of acted out at this point, 1:31:47.800 --> 1:31:49.680 and so I just kind of hung in there and 1:31:50.200 --> 1:31:51.800 try to do the best I could. I was that 1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:55.600 was probably the scene, the only scene will That was 1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:58.280 probably the scene of mine that I was least proud of. 1:31:58.720 --> 1:32:02.120 I thought I had another, should have given another twenty 1:32:02.120 --> 1:32:06.280 five to thirty percent in that scene, and I was drained, 1:32:06.880 --> 1:32:07.679 completely drained. 1:32:07.760 --> 1:32:08.599 Now if you'll. 1:32:08.400 --> 1:32:11.639 Remember, do you remember how that scene started the pan 1:32:11.720 --> 1:32:16.040 across all the stuff. Yeah, started on a Tennessee football helmet. 1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:19.599 Oh my god, you got some little props in there. 1:32:20.439 --> 1:32:23.519 I get him into almost everything I do, And I'll 1:32:23.520 --> 1:32:24.840 tell you this is how I do it. 1:32:25.560 --> 1:32:27.960 I first start with the director and say do you 1:32:28.040 --> 1:32:30.200 want me to use my accent or not? 1:32:31.240 --> 1:32:33.240 And if they say yeah, I like. 1:32:33.240 --> 1:32:35.240 The accent, you know, which most of the time they do, 1:32:35.960 --> 1:32:41.240 and I'll say, well, maybe he's from Tennessee. Maybe in 1:32:41.280 --> 1:32:44.519 his backstory he even played football at Tennessee. So what 1:32:44.600 --> 1:32:47.400 about some Tennessee props I can get him sent for free? 1:32:47.760 --> 1:32:50.400 And they said, well, no, they're copywriter. You can't put 1:32:50.439 --> 1:32:53.479 that I said no, no, no. The ut Athletic Work had 1:32:53.479 --> 1:32:56.960 a formal letter they sent to all my productions throughout 1:32:56.960 --> 1:33:01.280 my career saying it's fine to use Tennessee anything David 1:33:01.360 --> 1:33:02.160 wants to use it. 1:33:02.280 --> 1:33:04.640 I love that. That's so funny. 1:33:05.520 --> 1:33:08.320 I have a power Toat tattooed on my left shoulder 1:33:08.400 --> 1:33:10.840 and in Hawaii Oh, I had a sleeveless shirt on 1:33:10.920 --> 1:33:14.800 and they featured that featured the tattoo in one of 1:33:14.840 --> 1:33:15.840 the shots. 1:33:16.120 --> 1:33:18.479 Are you the number one fan? You must be the 1:33:18.560 --> 1:33:21.000 number one for generation? 1:33:21.680 --> 1:33:26.360 I would say there are hundreds of thousands. 1:33:25.800 --> 1:33:28.320 Of these people just like me. 1:33:28.640 --> 1:33:29.200 Wow. 1:33:29.680 --> 1:33:33.519 Yeah, I have an acting question for you. Sure you're saying, 1:33:33.720 --> 1:33:35.439 you know you look back on that scene and you're 1:33:35.479 --> 1:33:38.000 disappointed in it. What do you do when you leave 1:33:38.040 --> 1:33:40.519 SAT and you're like fuck, like there's nothing you can do. 1:33:40.680 --> 1:33:44.200 How do you deal with that? You're just haunted for decades. 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:46.400 I just went home and fell in the bed and 1:33:46.400 --> 1:33:48.880 went to sleep. No, I'm not haunted for decades. And 1:33:48.920 --> 1:33:52.680 you know, when I watch it, I don't think anybody 1:33:52.720 --> 1:33:56.639 else is going to feel like I short. It's only 1:33:56.720 --> 1:33:59.000 me because I know I have more. 1:33:59.600 --> 1:34:01.040 I know I knew that. 1:34:02.680 --> 1:34:05.160 Probably have we had we shot that scene earlier in 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:07.519 the day, I could have done more with it, but 1:34:07.600 --> 1:34:08.799 I was just drained. 1:34:09.120 --> 1:34:09.599 Was empty. 1:34:10.200 --> 1:34:13.599 Tank was empty? Yeah, yeah, not totally empty. So so 1:34:13.680 --> 1:34:17.880 I think the scene is fine. I'm not like, see, 1:34:18.040 --> 1:34:21.960 there's no cringe worthy aspect to it whatsoever. 1:34:22.600 --> 1:34:28.519 It's just you know, dang, yeah we we didn't notice. 1:34:28.600 --> 1:34:30.719 But I mean, I bet you as an actor, notice 1:34:30.760 --> 1:34:32.479 you know what you want, what you wanted it to be. 1:34:32.680 --> 1:34:35.559 You know, well, because it's a big moment, you know, 1:34:35.640 --> 1:34:38.120 he finally admits what happened. 1:34:39.560 --> 1:34:40.120 Yeah. 1:34:40.479 --> 1:34:43.679 My question too, is what is it about you? Because 1:34:43.720 --> 1:34:46.040 I'm going through your IMDb. You've played a lot of cops, 1:34:46.080 --> 1:34:48.479 a lot of detectives, a lot of more than one 1:34:48.479 --> 1:34:49.200 guy named Hawk. 1:34:50.920 --> 1:34:52.800 You just look like a guy that looks like a hawk. 1:34:52.920 --> 1:34:56.040 I mean, it's like, uh, it's very interesting you you've 1:34:56.040 --> 1:34:57.920 played a lot of I mean, do you think you 1:34:58.000 --> 1:35:01.439 mostly play like kind of I mean, you've obviously have 1:35:01.600 --> 1:35:03.720 over one hundred credits, You've played a million different things. 1:35:03.800 --> 1:35:06.240 But would you say, like you play a ton of 1:35:06.720 --> 1:35:09.759 sort of like characters like this, like this guy, like cops. 1:35:12.040 --> 1:35:16.280 Later in my career, but you know, I used to 1:35:16.280 --> 1:35:19.080 get to think, hey, you always played military guys. Oh yeah, right, 1:35:19.600 --> 1:35:22.160 because that was a big part of mine, with Austin 1:35:22.200 --> 1:35:23.120 and a gentleman and. 1:35:25.120 --> 1:35:26.880 Behind me lines and all that stuff. 1:35:26.880 --> 1:35:30.559 But I don't know I have I've never gone gone 1:35:30.600 --> 1:35:32.560 back and looked at. 1:35:32.680 --> 1:35:33.800 Which group. 1:35:35.040 --> 1:35:39.800 Of society I have performed in the most. I'm never 1:35:39.840 --> 1:35:43.280 really never really crossed my mind. But it seems like 1:35:43.640 --> 1:35:45.679 I feel like I've played as many bad guys. 1:35:45.439 --> 1:35:46.240 As I have a good guy. 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:48.040 Oh yeah, you know, I just. 1:35:48.160 --> 1:35:49.960 Played a role I say justed. 1:35:50.120 --> 1:35:53.240 We shot it in twenty twenty three, but you know 1:35:53.400 --> 1:35:57.320 in a movie that is outstreaming now and it's going 1:35:57.400 --> 1:36:01.559 to be on It starts on Hulu in March, and 1:36:01.600 --> 1:36:05.960 it's called Dead Money, and it's a poker heist movie 1:36:06.479 --> 1:36:10.599 with uh Emil Hirsch is. 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:12.960 The lead and I'm the villain. 1:36:13.479 --> 1:36:16.920 I also creative executive produced it, and and you know, 1:36:16.960 --> 1:36:17.680 I wrote a lot of. 1:36:17.680 --> 1:36:20.439 The scenes and and really had a lot of input. 1:36:20.520 --> 1:36:23.559 I helped I picked the director, and we did the 1:36:23.600 --> 1:36:26.720 casting together, and so I was involved in that creatively, 1:36:27.040 --> 1:36:29.599 you know, from soup to nuts. So I'm very proud 1:36:29.640 --> 1:36:34.040 of that movie. And I wrote my character in there 1:36:34.080 --> 1:36:36.000 that he had a bad dye job. So I have 1:36:36.120 --> 1:36:38.640 my hair, you know, and my goatee. 1:36:38.680 --> 1:36:43.360 Died this really dark brown that looks totally wrong, you. 1:36:43.320 --> 1:36:49.559 Know, like so, but and it's too Who is just 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:51.439 in an episode of SPU that we covered. 1:36:52.080 --> 1:36:52.760 Oh yeah he's in. 1:36:53.240 --> 1:36:57.240 Yeah, yeah, I'm not not very nice to him in 1:36:57.280 --> 1:36:58.639 that movie. 1:36:59.560 --> 1:37:02.240 You'll see. That's all I'm gonna say. Okay, but you 1:37:02.240 --> 1:37:05.240 should see the movie. It really is the best movie. 1:37:05.280 --> 1:37:07.800 That's this little company I've been working with out of 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:09.120 Jacksonville in Atlanta. 1:37:09.760 --> 1:37:12.439 We've done I did the first three. 1:37:12.240 --> 1:37:16.240 Movies with him, and then they've done two more since then, 1:37:16.360 --> 1:37:23.800 and that they're really coming of their own. But Dead 1:37:23.880 --> 1:37:27.040 Money is the best thing that that group has produced 1:37:27.080 --> 1:37:27.360 so far. 1:37:27.479 --> 1:37:30.040 This out cool, but yeah, you'll like it. 1:37:30.560 --> 1:37:34.080 You worked with our favorite Bette Middler with Drew Barrymore. 1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:38.840 We would love to know some a story or something. 1:37:39.960 --> 1:37:42.720 Thatt Middler's my childhood idol into adulthood. 1:37:43.800 --> 1:37:46.839 Well that was Mars. Yeah, that was my first movie. 1:37:47.040 --> 1:37:49.200 I've done a couple of little day player roles before that, 1:37:49.240 --> 1:37:53.240 but that was my first movie. And I was so 1:37:54.640 --> 1:37:58.679 starstruck by her when she played in nineteen seventy three, 1:37:59.320 --> 1:38:02.280 she did a con search here in Knoxville, and I 1:38:02.400 --> 1:38:05.000 slept out in front of the UG ticket office in 1:38:05.080 --> 1:38:08.200 a sleeping bag with my new puppy and was front 1:38:08.240 --> 1:38:10.960 got front row center tickets to that. So when I 1:38:11.000 --> 1:38:15.080 went into the meeting for you know, I told that. 1:38:15.160 --> 1:38:16.639 When I went in the meeting, and they were very 1:38:16.920 --> 1:38:20.320 you know, that meant a lot to Aaron Russo, who 1:38:20.360 --> 1:38:24.320 was her manager. But I went in and read for 1:38:24.439 --> 1:38:27.880 Nancy Clopper, the casting director, and it was this sensitive 1:38:27.920 --> 1:38:30.479 scene in that movie where he's telling her how he 1:38:30.640 --> 1:38:33.080 wanted always wanted to be a vet and he delivered 1:38:33.080 --> 1:38:37.160 this cat that was breached and all that, and and 1:38:37.200 --> 1:38:39.519 I looked up and there were tears coming down the 1:38:39.560 --> 1:38:42.320 casting director's face, and she picked up the phone and 1:38:42.400 --> 1:38:43.720 call the director Mark right Well. 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:45.040 She said, I'm bringing. 1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:47.320 Mal over to your house right now. So I went 1:38:47.360 --> 1:38:51.639 over there, read with him, and uh, and then nothing happened. 1:38:51.680 --> 1:38:54.080 I didn't hear from anybody. Two months went by, so 1:38:54.120 --> 1:38:55.920 I said, heck, I'm moving back. I'm going back to 1:38:55.960 --> 1:38:59.760 New York. I missed my girlfriend and so I left LA. 1:39:00.000 --> 1:39:01.760 As soon as I landed in New York and got 1:39:01.760 --> 1:39:05.400 to the apartment, my girlfriend had made fried chicken my favorite. 1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:10.360 The phone rings and they say, get back on a plane. Well, 1:39:10.400 --> 1:39:14.439 that's that's not an actor story. I'll tell you one 1:39:14.520 --> 1:39:19.120 quick Jack story. There's a scene in the Two Jakes 1:39:19.800 --> 1:39:22.839 where I'm supposed to be waiting by the car my character, 1:39:23.240 --> 1:39:28.479 who's this, you know, dipshit young cop. And I'm supposed 1:39:28.479 --> 1:39:30.519 to be waiting by the car. And so they've got 1:39:30.560 --> 1:39:35.599 a camera set up and Jack's over there and I said, 1:39:35.680 --> 1:39:37.360 I want to try a couple of things. He said, 1:39:37.439 --> 1:39:40.679 Keith sent you a fucking great actor. You just hold 1:39:40.760 --> 1:39:44.479 up one finger to take one, two fingers for take two. 1:39:44.960 --> 1:39:47.720 I'll just let the motherfucker roll. 1:39:48.280 --> 1:39:50.720 And so he just let the camera roll, and I 1:39:50.760 --> 1:39:53.760 did all these things, twirling my pistol and practicing my 1:39:53.880 --> 1:39:57.120 quick drawl and all these crazy things. And that was 1:39:57.160 --> 1:40:01.439 just a it was such a moment of freedom when 1:40:01.439 --> 1:40:05.920 he said that. And you never really have total freedom 1:40:05.960 --> 1:40:09.320 with any director. You know, you're in the confines of 1:40:09.680 --> 1:40:11.880 what he sees and the limit. Now you can bring 1:40:12.040 --> 1:40:15.200 things and you can stretch those boundaries. But that's the 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:19.000 only time I've ever had the boundaries removed. Yeah, and 1:40:19.120 --> 1:40:21.519 just told do whatever you want. I mean, it's a tiny, 1:40:21.600 --> 1:40:24.559 little scene. You know, it wasn't really dial it wasn't 1:40:24.600 --> 1:40:28.519 dialogue or anything, but it was just amazing feeling the 1:40:29.560 --> 1:40:32.639 best scene I ever played with the best actor. 1:40:32.680 --> 1:40:34.320 Of course, scenes with Jack were great, but. 1:40:34.280 --> 1:40:38.559 They weren't They weren't real, you know, they weren't deep. 1:40:39.400 --> 1:40:42.559 And the scene I played with Gene Hackman where we 1:40:42.640 --> 1:40:46.479 go to toe to toe in behind enemy lines, took 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:50.160 about three hours to shoot. And that is my that 1:40:50.280 --> 1:40:53.080 is the greatest three hours I've ever spent as an actor. 1:40:54.840 --> 1:40:58.120 No matter how deep I went, he would go just 1:40:58.160 --> 1:41:01.960 as deep, and we just it just kept getting richer 1:41:02.200 --> 1:41:06.720 and richer. And when it was over, I said, I 1:41:06.800 --> 1:41:08.439 just want to tell you, Jane, that's the best three 1:41:08.479 --> 1:41:11.040 hours I've ever ever spent as an actor. 1:41:12.080 --> 1:41:12.880 And he was. 1:41:13.560 --> 1:41:17.400 He was kind of a curmudgeon a little bit in 1:41:17.479 --> 1:41:20.320 the film because he'd just come off a film where 1:41:20.360 --> 1:41:25.400 the director was such a stickler for dialogue and Jane 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:27.760 was worried about and I remembering his lines, and he 1:41:27.840 --> 1:41:30.719 was the age then that I am now seventy, and. 1:41:30.680 --> 1:41:31.200 So he was. 1:41:31.640 --> 1:41:34.439 He wasn't mean anybody. He was nice, said, you know, 1:41:34.479 --> 1:41:37.439 he's friendly, but he was he was still just you 1:41:37.479 --> 1:41:40.680 could tell it was kind of where it was. He 1:41:40.760 --> 1:41:44.160 was in an abrasive state a little bit, and as 1:41:44.160 --> 1:41:48.680 soon as he finished his last line in the movie, 1:41:49.000 --> 1:41:51.479 he became this total class clown. 1:41:52.280 --> 1:41:54.679 He was laughing, telling jokes. 1:41:55.040 --> 1:41:59.000 He was so happy to have gotten all his dialogue done. 1:41:59.520 --> 1:42:04.360 And it's a different person, different person, But I loved 1:42:04.479 --> 1:42:05.920 working with him. 1:42:06.160 --> 1:42:08.400 He's one of the greats. I mean, I love him 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:10.639 so much. Like that's exciting. 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:13.559 You have such a passion for what you do after 1:42:13.840 --> 1:42:14.800 you know all these years. 1:42:14.840 --> 1:42:18.200 It's nice, it's it's great when the cameras roll and 1:42:18.200 --> 1:42:22.800 then you're working. Sitting around is the worst part. And 1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:27.679 Ben Johnson, the famous character actor, some actors complaining about 1:42:27.800 --> 1:42:30.600 having to wait, and he said, son, do you not 1:42:30.760 --> 1:42:33.960 understand where, Uh, we act for free. 1:42:34.080 --> 1:42:35.040 We're paid to wait. 1:42:36.200 --> 1:42:38.639 The reason you make your money is to sit around 1:42:38.720 --> 1:42:41.640 waiting to shoot. Then when you shoot, that's you do 1:42:41.720 --> 1:42:42.360 that for nothing. 1:42:42.960 --> 1:42:46.120 Yeah, it's kind of true. It's kind of true. 1:42:46.800 --> 1:42:49.519 It is so true because I think about that with 1:42:49.600 --> 1:42:50.080 stand up. 1:42:50.160 --> 1:42:51.920 We're both stand ups and I'm on the road all 1:42:51.960 --> 1:42:54.240 the time, and when I'm on stage doing shows, it's 1:42:54.240 --> 1:42:57.360 my favorite thing ever. But of course, like I'm going 1:42:57.400 --> 1:42:59.080 to get in the two hour uber, I'm going to 1:42:59.160 --> 1:42:59.880 get on my flight. 1:43:00.080 --> 1:43:00.960 I'm going to you know, all. 1:43:00.880 --> 1:43:03.719 Of that is what you're getting paid for, the hotel, 1:43:05.200 --> 1:43:09.520 you know, eating like airport food, and then the prize 1:43:09.520 --> 1:43:10.720 is on stage. 1:43:11.439 --> 1:43:13.160 Exactly what's next? 1:43:13.200 --> 1:43:14.920 What do you want to do? What haven't you done? 1:43:15.000 --> 1:43:17.000 Is there a role that you're like, I need to 1:43:17.000 --> 1:43:19.519 play something like this, or you're just open to stuff? 1:43:19.720 --> 1:43:22.680 What's the I'm open to stuff right now. You know 1:43:23.280 --> 1:43:24.400 that I've written. 1:43:25.400 --> 1:43:29.400 I'm just finishing my fourth script in the last like 1:43:29.520 --> 1:43:33.720 six months, and I want to do I want to 1:43:33.760 --> 1:43:36.759 do one of these scripts at least, if not more. 1:43:36.880 --> 1:43:40.400 So I'm hoping that this little movie company that I've 1:43:40.400 --> 1:43:44.000 been working with will come around and decide to do 1:43:44.080 --> 1:43:44.839 one of them. 1:43:45.240 --> 1:43:47.240 And I think I didn't. 1:43:47.040 --> 1:43:49.759 Know I could write, and and I'm very very happy 1:43:49.800 --> 1:43:50.799 with stuff I'm writing. 1:43:51.160 --> 1:43:51.719 That's great. 1:43:52.720 --> 1:43:56.040 I never thought I could even get started, and it 1:43:56.280 --> 1:43:59.719 just flows better than I ever dreamed. 1:44:00.160 --> 1:44:02.519 So I'm really happy with these And do. 1:44:02.520 --> 1:44:05.439 You want to direct them? 1:44:05.640 --> 1:44:06.679 Yes? Everything? 1:44:07.360 --> 1:44:08.719 Yeah. 1:44:08.880 --> 1:44:11.479 The main thing is if you're asking about a plug, 1:44:11.520 --> 1:44:13.360 the main thing I want to plug is dead money, 1:44:13.439 --> 1:44:16.360 oh bad money with me and Emile Hurstad. 1:44:16.360 --> 1:44:19.519 Money on starts on Hulu in March. 1:44:19.920 --> 1:44:23.200 Amazing, okay, perfect, this will come out just in time 1:44:23.240 --> 1:44:23.559 for that. 1:44:24.640 --> 1:44:25.040 Yeah. 1:44:25.080 --> 1:44:28.120 Cool, that's cool. I'm glad you're getting so fun. Yeah, 1:44:28.120 --> 1:44:28.840 this was great. 1:44:30.160 --> 1:44:32.280 Thank you so much, David, will let you will let 1:44:32.320 --> 1:44:36.600 you go, and we will make sure everybody's going to 1:44:36.600 --> 1:44:37.600 see Dead Money. 1:44:37.920 --> 1:44:38.200 Cool. 1:44:39.080 --> 1:44:40.400 All right, thanks David. 1:44:44.640 --> 1:44:47.080 I mean that was really fun. Love talking to him. 1:44:47.120 --> 1:44:49.920 When an unhinged, wild episode, I know. 1:44:50.160 --> 1:44:54.240 I mean it's also because this is season three, he 1:44:54.400 --> 1:44:58.519 might be like the prototype of like the first guy 1:44:58.600 --> 1:45:00.880 that comes in and knows the case tries to act 1:45:00.880 --> 1:45:03.040 like he knows the case better than you know, Like 1:45:03.120 --> 1:45:07.200 we just had Delroy Lindo, We've had you know, I. 1:45:07.200 --> 1:45:09.559 Feel like Anthony Anderson did that. Yeah. 1:45:10.760 --> 1:45:13.519 Yeah, even Erica Christiansen to a degree, is that kind 1:45:13.560 --> 1:45:16.400 of character. Like these characters that just come in and 1:45:16.439 --> 1:45:18.639 like think that they know better than Benson and Stabler 1:45:18.640 --> 1:45:22.280 and then like they have to all work together to. 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:24.080 Teach that, you know, teamwork makes the dream work. 1:45:24.120 --> 1:45:27.080 But but yeah, this episode is wild. 1:45:27.280 --> 1:45:31.160 It's also it's so freaky because this one. 1:45:31.080 --> 1:45:34.800 I felt had a really really graphic violence against the 1:45:34.880 --> 1:45:37.639 victims and that they sort of like showed parts of it, 1:45:38.040 --> 1:45:39.840 and then the guy who ends up doing it is 1:45:39.880 --> 1:45:43.280 like so just like innocuous, you know, Like when it 1:45:43.320 --> 1:45:45.400 was the guy in baggage, You're like, yeah, that guy 1:45:45.439 --> 1:45:47.599 looks like he would fucking kill you, like for some reason, 1:45:47.600 --> 1:45:50.200 Like the way he was like sneering. This guy did 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:53.080 truly look just like an unassuming accountant with like. 1:45:54.000 --> 1:45:56.920 I don't trust an accountant. That's I mean a dangerous 1:45:56.960 --> 1:46:02.400 type of person. So yeah, but like suspicious. 1:46:02.520 --> 1:46:03.080 I don't know. 1:46:03.160 --> 1:46:05.000 It just scared me so much the way he was 1:46:05.040 --> 1:46:07.160 just in that woman's apartment, just having wine with her, 1:46:07.200 --> 1:46:08.679 and now she acted like that was no big deal. 1:46:08.920 --> 1:46:11.559 She also is deeply stupid for letting like an IRS 1:46:11.600 --> 1:46:12.719 agent like into her home. 1:46:12.760 --> 1:46:14.400 She was scared she was gonna get fucked you know 1:46:14.439 --> 1:46:17.400 what I mean, Yeah, fucked over financially. 1:46:16.880 --> 1:46:19.000 Yeah, but she was gonna get her teeth fucking knocked 1:46:19.040 --> 1:46:21.519 out and murdered I know of. 1:46:21.720 --> 1:46:24.200 And it's like, you never like to hear Melinda Warner go. 1:46:25.600 --> 1:46:27.559 With what this woman went through death was a blessing, 1:46:27.640 --> 1:46:29.879 Like you never want to hear that from someone who's seen. 1:46:29.760 --> 1:46:32.719 Everything, you know, that is the worst. 1:46:33.160 --> 1:46:36.559 Like she was like this was bud, but Also, I 1:46:36.560 --> 1:46:38.680 can't believe he got away with biting the victims for 1:46:38.680 --> 1:46:40.839 as long as he did with dental stuff. 1:46:41.400 --> 1:46:41.760 I know. 1:46:43.479 --> 1:46:46.000 That's true, or why they would have to exhume the 1:46:46.040 --> 1:46:49.480 body if they had the dental records from the past crimes. 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:52.840 Yeah again season three. I don't feel like they were 1:46:52.840 --> 1:46:55.200 always connecting all the dots in the very early seasons. 1:46:55.240 --> 1:46:57.160 I didn't think they thought we were be They maybe 1:46:57.200 --> 1:46:58.400 didn't know the show was going to be on for 1:46:58.400 --> 1:47:00.519 twenty five years and that some of us would just 1:47:00.560 --> 1:47:03.800 be watching every episode seventy five times and earning a 1:47:03.840 --> 1:47:05.400 law degree from watching it. 1:47:05.520 --> 1:47:06.840 So I don't know. 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:09.960 I do feel like we find holes all the time 1:47:10.000 --> 1:47:12.920 in a lot of these episodes, but I don't know 1:47:12.960 --> 1:47:15.880 what we what's the big takeaway lesson? I mean, definitely 1:47:15.920 --> 1:47:18.040 that the cops are constantly don't. 1:47:17.880 --> 1:47:21.439 Put away someone into jail that didn't do it so 1:47:21.520 --> 1:47:23.679 you can look like a cool cop, like but also 1:47:23.760 --> 1:47:26.000 for none of his coworkers to be like, that's not 1:47:26.240 --> 1:47:26.599 the guy. 1:47:26.760 --> 1:47:28.679 He couldn't do that. Yeah. 1:47:29.320 --> 1:47:31.760 Yeah, I just can't believe it went through try like 1:47:31.880 --> 1:47:34.479 this many things that. 1:47:34.640 --> 1:47:35.719 Any many years. 1:47:36.040 --> 1:47:39.639 Yeah, for a crime where like no evidence was left behind. 1:47:39.640 --> 1:47:42.800 I don't know it's well, and then the and in 1:47:42.840 --> 1:47:45.439 the episode, it's like the guy was doing it. So 1:47:46.240 --> 1:47:49.280 he was originally even on their list because he testified 1:47:49.280 --> 1:47:51.200 to seeing the guy in the building, Like so he 1:47:51.320 --> 1:47:54.679 was framing him on purpose, Like pretty hardcore. So you've 1:47:54.680 --> 1:47:57.400 got a psychopath who's framing you. But also it's like, 1:47:57.880 --> 1:47:59.760 did any of you guys have a conversation with this 1:47:59.840 --> 1:48:02.040 man you think this is? This man is like capable 1:48:02.160 --> 1:48:06.000 of like evading the cops on all these murders, like 1:48:06.000 --> 1:48:10.000 the Soho strangler, like just lumbering around. I mean the 1:48:10.000 --> 1:48:13.000 guy is like not like I don't know, he's not 1:48:13.080 --> 1:48:16.320 a stealth killer from not meticulous. 1:48:16.520 --> 1:48:16.880 Yeah. 1:48:17.600 --> 1:48:19.559 Yeah, And it just also goes to show you that 1:48:19.960 --> 1:48:23.280 Huang's profiles are seldom wrong. You know, he knew the 1:48:23.320 --> 1:48:26.400 guy was educated white middle management. 1:48:26.640 --> 1:48:28.560 You know he knew he knew. 1:48:28.800 --> 1:48:33.639 And stabler fuck you with your little attitude. I mean, 1:48:33.680 --> 1:48:35.879 but he had a right to be mad, Like obviously 1:48:35.920 --> 1:48:38.439 that would make me mad too, But like I just 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:41.439 hate the vibe of like, well, now I'm going to 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:42.760 ruin it for all of you. 1:48:43.040 --> 1:48:45.040 Yeah, now I'm gonna be rude to a girl who 1:48:45.080 --> 1:48:48.400 just found her roommate dead because I'm like just pissed 1:48:48.400 --> 1:48:51.040 that the like the justice system doesn't work all the time. 1:48:51.160 --> 1:48:54.760 You know, He's he's got a lot going on, that 1:48:54.880 --> 1:48:58.120 fucking guy. But they they definitely had so much in 1:48:58.160 --> 1:49:01.160 the early seasons, like the early handful of seasons that 1:49:01.280 --> 1:49:03.840 was like it's getting to Elliott, Like I don't think 1:49:03.880 --> 1:49:04.679 they do that much. 1:49:04.720 --> 1:49:06.000 With Benson. 1:49:07.200 --> 1:49:10.000 They did so much of like, oh, this case involves 1:49:10.000 --> 1:49:11.600 a little girl, and you guys know Elliott has a 1:49:11.600 --> 1:49:13.800 bunch of little girls. You know, Like there was so 1:49:13.960 --> 1:49:16.040 much like this is how it's getting in his head, 1:49:16.160 --> 1:49:18.879 and they didn't I don't know they. 1:49:19.080 --> 1:49:22.240 Ben's well that well, yeah, that's the thing Stablirt's family, 1:49:22.880 --> 1:49:25.519 And with Benson, it's just like anytime there's a single 1:49:25.520 --> 1:49:28.559 woman or an alcoholic or like a mom that's bad yeah, 1:49:28.640 --> 1:49:30.839 or an alcoholic mom yeah. 1:49:30.720 --> 1:49:34.360 Yeah, yeah totally, or like being popular. 1:49:33.960 --> 1:49:39.040 In school or something, she's connected in different ways. 1:49:39.600 --> 1:49:42.280 Yeah. I mean a good episode. 1:49:42.360 --> 1:49:44.120 I think I've been a little too hard on it 1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:47.200 with some of the silly like I just didn't get 1:49:47.240 --> 1:49:49.400 the contact of it all. Like there was just these 1:49:49.479 --> 1:49:55.639 extra additional clues that were annoying to me. Yeah, yeah, 1:49:55.680 --> 1:49:58.479 but it's not nice because it's an amazing episode, riveting. 1:49:59.120 --> 1:50:01.640 It is a like Honestly, as I was watching it, 1:50:01.680 --> 1:50:03.200 I was like, I know, I've seen this one a 1:50:03.200 --> 1:50:05.120 million times, but it kind of felt like it was 1:50:05.160 --> 1:50:06.320 coming back to me a little bit new. 1:50:06.400 --> 1:50:07.160 So I liked that. 1:50:09.080 --> 1:50:13.040 And I do sort of like the serial Killer episodes 1:50:13.080 --> 1:50:15.120 that feels like so crazy, But I do kind of 1:50:15.160 --> 1:50:16.600 like the ones where like they've been looking for a 1:50:16.640 --> 1:50:18.240 guy for a long time or whatever. 1:50:18.439 --> 1:50:18.640 You know. 1:50:18.720 --> 1:50:20.479 You know what, I'm getting an urge to watch while 1:50:20.520 --> 1:50:23.160 I pack and shower. Well, now when I shower, when 1:50:23.160 --> 1:50:28.120 I dry off, I want to watch the Mattress Killer one. 1:50:27.439 --> 1:50:31.880 With oh the women? What is that one with bedtime? Yeah? Bedtime? 1:50:32.080 --> 1:50:34.960 Yeah, the Bedtime Killer or whatever. Maybe I'll watch it 1:50:35.000 --> 1:50:37.679 before bed tonight. That's what I'm really in the mood for. 1:50:39.240 --> 1:50:42.160 Speaking of old crowd, A cozy little, A cozy little 1:50:42.280 --> 1:50:45.439 like Bedtime where she liked the old butcher. 1:50:45.800 --> 1:50:50.240 Yeah, and she keeps the old sheets. Was she she 1:50:50.280 --> 1:50:52.720 should have won an Emmy for that one. Oh yeah, 1:50:52.760 --> 1:50:54.960 and Margaret was crazy. We talked to Jacqueline Smith for 1:50:55.000 --> 1:50:55.960 that one. That was awesome. 1:50:56.120 --> 1:50:56.960 I was in step. 1:50:57.400 --> 1:51:00.280 We talked to a Charlie's Angel. Anyway, let's move on 1:51:00.280 --> 1:51:02.439 to what would Sister Peg Do? This is our weekly 1:51:02.479 --> 1:51:05.679 segment where we direct you guys to an organization, an article, 1:51:05.720 --> 1:51:08.000 a blog, a documentary, something to give you more info 1:51:08.080 --> 1:51:10.880 about what we talked about in today's episode. And this 1:51:10.920 --> 1:51:14.559 week for WWSPD, we'd like to point you to the 1:51:14.640 --> 1:51:17.800 Equal Justice Initiative. This organization is committed to ending mass 1:51:17.840 --> 1:51:21.719 incarceration and excessive punishment in the United States, challenging racial 1:51:21.720 --> 1:51:25.080 and economic injustice, and protecting basic human rights for the 1:51:25.080 --> 1:51:29.240 most vulnerable people in American society. Obviously, I hated hearing 1:51:29.320 --> 1:51:34.480 about two mentally disabled men going to jail for multiple 1:51:34.840 --> 1:51:38.840 over a decade each for crimes they didn't commit. So 1:51:39.040 --> 1:51:40.920 organizations like this are doing a lot of work to 1:51:40.920 --> 1:51:45.080 stop stuff like that from happening. EJI works with communities 1:51:45.080 --> 1:51:48.320 that have been marginalized by poverty and discouraged by unequal treatment. 1:51:48.400 --> 1:51:51.640 They also provide research and recommendations to assist advocates and 1:51:51.680 --> 1:51:54.920 policymakers in criminal justice reform. So for more info, you 1:51:54.960 --> 1:51:57.680 can go to EJI dot org and we link that 1:51:57.720 --> 1:52:01.320 in our show notes as always, and we will post 1:52:01.320 --> 1:52:03.519 it as a link in our stories, that comes out 1:52:03.560 --> 1:52:05.280 the data this episode comes out, and then that gets 1:52:05.320 --> 1:52:08.800 saved forever in our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page, 1:52:08.800 --> 1:52:10.599 which is That's Messed Up Pod. If you ever want 1:52:10.600 --> 1:52:14.799 to go back and check out what organizations and docs 1:52:14.840 --> 1:52:17.800 and articles we've highlighted before, they're all saved there. 1:52:18.479 --> 1:52:21.040 Thank you so much for that, And next week we'll 1:52:21.040 --> 1:52:28.240 be doing Gamblers Fallacy Season fifteen, episode seventeen, Boom Boom 1:52:28.400 --> 1:52:41.800 Boom goes to the Dynamite. Thanks for listening. Bye. That's 1:52:41.840 --> 1:52:43.759 Messed Up as an exactly right production. 1:52:44.200 --> 1:52:46.280 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 1:52:46.360 --> 1:52:48.599 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 1:52:48.600 --> 1:52:51.320 at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. 1:52:51.520 --> 1:52:54.679 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 1:52:54.920 --> 1:52:57.800 and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us 1:52:57.840 --> 1:53:00.919 personally at Kara Klank and Glitter Cheese. 1:53:01.080 --> 1:53:03.720 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:04.439 more information. 1:53:04.840 --> 1:53:07.840 Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien 1:53:08.000 --> 1:53:11.519 and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our. 1:53:11.400 --> 1:53:14.680 Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and 1:53:14.800 --> 1:53:17.559 to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean 1:53:17.680 --> 1:53:20.920 Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers, 1:53:20.960 --> 1:53:24.599 Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at 1:53:24.600 --> 1:53:25.519 Exactly Right Media. 1:53:26.520 --> 1:53:27.439 Dun Dun