WEBVTT - Putin's Potential Nuclear Threat and Women in Crypto 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.360 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:11.639 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:27.360 Emily Jay. I'm Emily changes San Francisco, and this is 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.600 Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. With Russia's 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:34.080 invasion faltering, could Putin be about to get more brazen 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.680 even make a nuclear threat. We'll speak to a security 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.840 expert who says it is time for a no fly zone, 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.600 plus a tech founder who's helped a hundred thousand people 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.239 flee Ukraine with a single Google doc. Plus more and 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.239 more women are flooding into crypto and most of them 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.120 are hoddlers. How women are making their way into the 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.760 biggest new tech trend to make sure they get a 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.400 piece of the pie. And the NBA presents its first 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.000 game in the metaverse. While they call it the net 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.679 a verse, was it a slam dunk? We'll take you 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.240 to the virtual report. I want to continue this conversation 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.600 now with security expert Jamial Jaffer. Jamille, I have to 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.880 get your reaction to what Jody just had to say. 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.640 There this quote from the U. S. Devents Intelligence Agency 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:26.200 Director Scott Barrier saying that Putin will increasingly rely on 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:31.560 its nuclear deterrent to signal the West. How serious is 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.400 this to you? Well, look, I think it is obviously 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.959 a serious concern. Any time you're dealing with a nuclear 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.680 weapons state that is engaged in aggression towards another nation, 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.679 you've got to measure are they going to rely on 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.320 their nuclear capability? But I think the main point take 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.840 away from from general barriers point is that it's a signal. Right, 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.040 it's nothing they're gonna use nuclear weapons. Is they're making 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.640 a point that hey, we have new clew weapons, don't 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.320 mess with us. The problem, of course, is that if 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.720 that's always our position, we can't do anything. You can't 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.840 respond to the Russians that essentially because they have nuclear 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.480 weapons that is suchually gives letter prudent clear one way 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.360 to do whatever he wants where that's in Ukraine or elsewhere. 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.320 We can't be afraid to engage and show military sturtch 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.239 the Russians when they were begun crossing lines, they crossed. 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.600 They crossed the line back in fourteen Crimea. They didn't 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.600 stop there. Then we thought well maybe if they just 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.480 take donascan luhance that would be enough. They didn't stop there. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.040 Now they're going to keep Where are the Russians gonna stop? 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.399 And we've seen them escalate civilian buildings, schools, hospitals, tremendous 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.960 number of casualties increasing over time. We can't always be 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.440 afraid of the Russian nuclear to turn to prevent us 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.720 from stopping the kind of killing is taking place here. Emily, Well, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.200 why shouldn't we be afraid to meal because we see 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.840 the escalation continuing to happen. You are now calling for 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.760 a no fly zone, which President Biden has clearly said 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.640 we'll lead to World War three. Why is that a 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.840 risk work taking in your view? Well? Look, I think Emily, 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.560 the challenge here is that we're not necessarily gonna avoid 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.520 World War three by doing nothing right. We've seen that 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.480 every return when we have not shown strength, and latter Reputin, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:04.600 he's tried to take the next thing right, whether that 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.640 was Crimea, whether that was the Eastern provinces, and now 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.880 we see him doubling down on his rhetoric and his 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.880 actual actions against Ukrainians. The Ukrainians of all know about 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.799 the esculatory dynamic with vander Putin, and they're the one 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.960 saying no flies and will bring this conflict to a 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.560 more rapid and what we're doing now, supplying more weapons 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.959 and the like, will absolutely help Ukrainians, But it's like 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.040 this continue the conflict at the cost of more civilian life. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.560 So I'm not sure America is showing strength actually leaves 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.840 the World War three. It might actually get Putin realized 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.360 he's gone to conflict he doesn't want and cause him 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.080 to come to a peaceful resolution this sooner rat and later. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.000 Why don't you think it's gonna get to that nuclear level? Though? 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.440 Why don't you think it'll mean World War three? Well, 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.680 you know, I think there have always been talking about 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.600 if you get in a conflict the nuclear weapons state, 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:51.960 right he is there always a chance to go in 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.280 nuclear Of course, that's true. But the real situation is 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.080 that I think we've seen now or the course of 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.360 at fifties, sixties, seventy years, that nuclear weapon states don't 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.880 actually use nuclear weapons because they recognize the catastrophic consequences 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.680 of engaging in such activity. And so if the US 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.160 where to begin enforce your no flies him, it's much 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.280 less likely in my view, that we're going to go 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.000 to a nuclear consept and more likely we come to 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.160 a conventional resolution. Look, letter Puttin doesn't want war with 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.880 the United States, he doesn't want nuclear war. He wants 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.400 to get his prestige back. He wants to get some 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.880 deal in Ukraine that gives him a win, and he 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:26.359 wants to be out of this. He doesn't want me. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.520 This conflict need longer than he has to. We need 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.880 to bring into a close. If we allowed to continue, 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.520 there will be more civilian deaths, more schools, more hospitals, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:40.080 more unnecessary suffering. Now, we haven't necessarily seen cyber attacks 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.920 on this scale that some expected. Why is that? And 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.360 it doesn't mean the defenses are working or could the 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.080 worst be yet to come, because obviously cyber attacks can 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.800 also be fairly devastating, though on a you know, in 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.080 a much different way. Yeah, no, absolute, Emily. Look, I 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.560 think we have seen some cyberttacks in Ukraine. We've seen 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.479 the the deployment of the whisper Gate malware. We've seen 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.280 other mal were recently deployed in the Ukrainian theater um 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.760 And of course remember what happened not pet in seventeen 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.360 uh mal we're similar to Whispergate leaked out and spread 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.120 and actually harmed American and other international Western companies to 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.440 the tune of two to three million dollars each ten 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.080 million dollars worldwide. So there is the potential for not 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.200 only damage in Ukraine, but collateral damage the cyber activities. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.039 And I think we also have to assume that lighter 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.640 Putent estimates that he can engage in at least some 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.880 level cyber activity against US in our allies without incurring 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.159 too big a cost, because he's done it year after year, 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.280 you know, using proxies like criminal hacker games. Now, why 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.120 haven't we seen it yet? I think he estimates it 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.520 right now. He doesn't needed to play that capability. The 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.080 US is largely stayed out of the fight directly, and 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.200 they've only engaged in this supplying weapons. He is getting 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.320 tired of it, he's getting tired of the sanctions. He's 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.440 certainly under pressure at home. So there is a high 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.320 likeli that if he's gonna turn to something, it's less 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.000 likely to be nuclear or kem bio and it's more 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.479 likely to be cyber and an escalation of civilian campaign. 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.719 And that's the most troubling thing because you point out 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.360 an attack of the cyber domain couz cod damage and 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:04.800 so We've got to be cleared him not only that 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.520 he should not do that, but if he does that, 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.960 there will be a significant response. Right now, we're taking 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.119 military options off the table. We gotta put those military 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.599 options back on the table. Emily, all right. Jamal Jaffer, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.839 cybersecurity expert, founder and executive director of the National Security Institute, Jamil, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:30.520 thanks for sharing your perspective here. The war on Ukraine 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.560 has showed the power of the kindness of strangers. Roughly 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.760 three million Ukrainians have been forced from their homes and country, 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.440 many with just the clothes on their back. My next 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.640 guest helped create an open access Google doc that helps 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.719 with every step of the way, from what to do 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.680 when leaving the Ukraine, what resources are available and where 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.280 to go, how to enter neighboring countries. Joining me now, 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.080 Elena Vandenberg. She is also the co founder of the 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.640 meeting software company Chili Piper. Elena, thank you so much 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.039 for joining us. So this Google doc is incredibly detailed. 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.840 Anyone can open it. You've got information about traffic, lights 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:10.680 and traffic and transportation, medical aid, accommodations, food. What sparked 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:16.800 the idea to do something like this? As tech companies. Uh. 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.040 It's hard to figure out what we can do to 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.320 stop something that of this great proportion a war. It 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:28.440 is hard to stop when you're working on tech and software. UM. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:33.360 But as we saw the attack on Ukraine unfolding, and 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.200 our own employees in these regions UM in such great distress, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.080 we started that Google document immediately to see what would 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.640 be the best path to get them to save shelter. UM. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:51.280 We started sharing it with our partners and our community, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.880 and we realized that many more people needed it than 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:59.120 we thought initially. UM. So it just started growing from 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.880 there uh to the place where it's at now ninety 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.160 pages or so UM, and it's access by tens of 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.320 thousands uh um and and keeps growing. Now. I know 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.160 when you started this it was just you and one 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.720 or two other people. How many people are working on 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:19.200 this now? How constantly are you updating it? It's a 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.640 real time updates UM. A lot of people are contributing 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.080 from different countries. UM. As new policies are being added 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.560 in Australia or in Germany or in UK. You the 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.760 policies are updated in the Google doc UM. There are 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.559 thousands of contributors, and we look at every information that's 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.359 being put to make sure that it's vetted. Obviously, it's 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.200 very important that the information gets UM gets a veget 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.560 so that they this is life in the situation, so 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:53.600 it has to be accurate. We're actually looking at scrolling 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.880 through this Google doc right now. Are there any stories 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.240 that stand out to you of the people who have 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.560 been helped by this. I'm sure you've got stories flooding in. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.520 You know, people who you know who wouldn't maybe wouldn't 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:14.840 know what to do. It's heartbreaking. UM. I UM am 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:20.040 part of thousands of what's up groups and telegram groups 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.400 where people are asking left and right for help on 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.680 how to get to certain borders, how to make sure 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.440 that they're UM, they're not in their lines of fire, 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.240 and that they get shelter. On the other sides, most 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:39.480 people in Ukraine, as you can tell, have UM stayed 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.200 behind to fight, including our own employees. The ones that 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.120 are going out and looking for shelter are mostly women 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:52.559 and children and elderly UM. So it's harder for them 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.120 to access something like a Google doc because they're not 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:01.360 typically that used to just to kind of format. So 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.160 what happens is that there's one leader out of three 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.080 or four groups that tells them, Okay, there's this document, 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.319 we can rely on it to find shelter, and that 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.880 person usually leads them to their way. UM. I was 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:21.160 family recently. They just got with twelve kids in Romanian 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.080 hotel and they send me a picture with them being 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:31.120 crowded on mattresses. Um. It's it's constant outpouring of of 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.960 of messages like that you yourself grew up under a 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.320 dictatorship in Romania, where now so many Ukrainians are fleeing. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.960 What are you hearing from family and friends in Romania 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.280 about what that's like seeing all of these people come 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.640 across the border. Ukraine and Romania are quite similar in 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:55.240 that they've lived under some oppression of some kind from Russia, 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.400 and at the same time there's there are some friendships 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.760 that have formed. I don't thing that anyone feels like 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:06.400 there's a war between Russia and Ukraine. Um, it's mostly 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:11.680 that there's a war between Puttin and Ukraine. Um. Everybody 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:18.360 is at Everybody who's um on the more educated front 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.959 on on Russia feels that, even though they're not allowed 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.400 to talk about it, that this is not a sentiment 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.400 that they share that they should be attacking. And in 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:33.920 Romania there's this looming fear that is reminiscent of communism, 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.920 of dictatorship um, where everybody was afraid to speak out, 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:44.040 everybody was in a state of fear um and and 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.480 constantly propaganda played on TV. So it's a it's a 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:53.480 that's familiar with Well. Grateful for the heart and Sawyer 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.520 putting into this document that is now helping so many 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.640 people in Vandenberg, co founder of Chili Piper, thank you. 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.600 Coming up, we're gonna be talking about software. Page your 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.880 Duty shares soaring after their results. CEO Jennifer Tahatta is 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:25.000 with us. Next, this is Bloomberg. Pagere Duty is seeing 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.720 a big boost after reporting a better than expected outlook 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.760 for the year, but the stock still struggling. You're to 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.240 date along with the rest of software, joining us now 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.360 to discuss page Duty. CEO Jennifer ta Hatta Jennifer shares 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.199 jumping here. What do you think it's going to drive 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.880 the next year of growth as we come out of 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:47.199 a pandemic but are facing all of these macro economic headwinds. Well, 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.480 thanks so much for having me, Emily, And first of all, 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.800 I'm really proud of our results. We saw accelerated growth 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.720 in the last year, ending the year growing revenue at 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.840 thirty and we see a lot of momentum coming into 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.400 the new year on the back of really strong performance 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.160 in our enterprise mid market segments with customers spending over 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.240 a million in a r are with US growing sixty 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.440 and customers spending over a u K growing UM. You know, 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.640 the macro is has been really challenging over the last 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.120 couple of years and that continues. If you had asked 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.680 me five years ago did I think I'd be dealing 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.199 with a new crisis almost every quarter as a CEO, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.400 I wouldn't have you know, I would have thought that 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.680 was a crazy question. And now here we are, I 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.600 will say that, UM, in the macro environment, we are 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.719 not seeing a change in what so far as a 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.120 pretty strong buying signal because a lot of our long 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.480 term tail winds are still in play. We see customers 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:45.400 adopting the cloud, We see DevOps transformation happening all over. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.600 Digital acceleration in particular still going on. It's not just 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.280 a COVID thing, as as companies realize that the primary 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.319 way they're going to engage with their customers is through 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:59.120 a digital experience, and increasingly we're seeing inflation and some 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.080 of the broader macro and certainty we can talk about Europe, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.559 we're seeing that as a potential driver for increased appetite 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.079 in automation, which has been a big part of our platform. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.160 What are the global trends that stand out to you, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.320 because in general, it certainly seems like we're seeing a 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:18.840 reset on big tech, on enterprise software, and I wonder 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.960 if if this is something that's going to continue for 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.720 the foreseeable future, or if we get back to the 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.440 multiples that so many tech investors had gotten used to 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.560 ordainitely seeing some you know normalization. You had some multiples 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.800 that were very very high and hard to rationalize, and 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.920 then you had some companies that were not playing in 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.080 the same range. What I would tell you is every 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.760 company is becoming a software company. That's a reality. So 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.960 I don't I don't think software is going away anytime soon, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.640 and I do think that investors are going to continue 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.600 to look for, you know, a path to profitability. And 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.480 you know, we were we were chilled to share with 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.440 our our investors this week that we intend to be 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.000 profitable by f y twenty four that you know, we're 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.880 going to continue to gain operating leverage as the company scales, 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.400 and we see that as you know, a way to 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:10.520 become true durable grower um from from a broader perspective. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.200 But I think you know, if you look at what's 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.360 going on in the macro, one thing that is certain 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.960 is that the way customers and the way employees work 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:24.239 has changed. Is a lot more interrupt work, unpredictable, unstructured 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.520 work coming at employees now, and some of the more 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.440 traditional platforms to getting queues, etcetera don't serve that type 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.640 of work very well. Page Your Duty is designed for 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.720 technical crises, to start incidents, and increasingly we're seeing it 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.240 be used for crisis management, which you know is unfortunately 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.520 becoming a really important practice in most companies today. So 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:46.840 what do you think this will all mean for Page 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.920 Duty stock? I mean, obviously we've seen the stock under 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.640 pressure despite these strong results. What's what's next? Quickly? Well, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.760 I I you know me, I'm a long game player. 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.040 I have been at the company for six years. You're 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.240 gonna have to carry me out in a box. And 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.800 I actually have a lot of confidence in both the 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.880 team and the company, and we have very sticky customer base, 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.400 you know, or our gross retention has been consistently above 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.680 a dollar. Retention has been above twenty percent. We expect 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.680 to keep that pace going. So I actually think there's 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.320 a lot of upside and growth. And you know, we're 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.560 very focused on our purpose and our mission to revolutionize 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:27.200 operations and we think this is what modern companies need. 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.040 And you know, frankly, if you look at what's going 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.480 on in the backdrop, that that remains true. So I 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:36.160 feel good about the direction. Jennifer had a CEO of 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.440 Page Your Duty Always good to have you on the show, Jennifer, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:50.120 and thank you for stopping by. Welcome back to Bloomer Technology. 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.360 I'm emily changing in San Francisco well, between inflation and 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.760 rate hikes, the war on Ukraine, the pandemic, the consumer 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.280 landscape has changed dramatically over the last few months and years. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.520 Here to talk with me about where the consumer is 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:06.160 going and more. Kirsten Green, founder of four Runner Ventures. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.399 Kirsten is great to have you back here on the show. 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.440 Thank you for having me. You've spent to you decades 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.359 focusing on the consumer. Walking through malls in the early 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.880 days of your career as an analyst. I'm curious where 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.480 you think the consumer is going now, facing all of 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.000 these shocks, all of this uncertainty, higher gas prices, What 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.280 does that tell you about where they're going to be 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.400 wanting to spend their money. There's a whole new list 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.439 of things on the macro level that are impacting us today, 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.560 and we're talking about the economy and the last two 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:38.359 years has been probably the unprecedented time of change and disruption. 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.080 So this consumer has really been through a lot the 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.639 last couple of years, and I think, you know, as 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.720 much as anything we've been, it's been demonstrated that they're resilient. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.879 People are resilient, consumers are resilient. UM. We definitely have 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.160 had you know, kind of higher savings rate, lower spending 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.639 during this time period and sentiment kind of fluctuating and 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.760 going up and then most recent period down again. So 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.520 here we are back on another leg of the roller coaster. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.399 And I think that, like you know, as we entered 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.560 this year, UM, I really was looking forward to seeing 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:13.760 like what are the new norms people are establishing, And 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.880 that's where we're trying to keep our focus on, which 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.200 is out of this period, what is kind of re emerging, 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.320 like it's not going back to where we were before. 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.360 It's obviously not being where we've been for the last 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.480 two years, but it's really thinking about what is the 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.120 future look like and how are people going to be 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.920 impacted by the recent events going forward. Now you throw 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.600 in you throw in a war, you throw an inflation, 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.560 you throw an interest rate increases, and that's just a 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.520 lot of uncertainty, and you're seeing that show up in 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.080 lower consumer sentiment and consumer confidence numbers. So what does 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.000 that mean for the next leg of the roller coaster 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.800 and where you are going to be putting your money 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.399 because your job is to figure out those early bets 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.360 that none of us right don't. So we've been we've 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.400 been investing, and we've been looking at a consumer who 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.240 has been, you know, cautious for the last two year. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.760 Savings rates have been highered, spending has been lower, They've 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.359 been more particular about what they're buying, when they're buying, 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.720 how they're buying, just like they are with their time. 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.280 I think that continues. If we thought this year was 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.359 going to be the year to re emerge and for 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.760 everything to kind of come back on, I think now 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.879 you've got a whole other host of reasons for people 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.680 to be a bit cautious. That being said, people are 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.320 fully healthy. This is you know, some of that. We're 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.199 we had higher savings rates definitely over the last two 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.880 years than we've had in decades. Um. While peep spending 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.720 has started to take back up, savings rates are still higher. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.399 The job market is incredibly it's favorable to people looking 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.840 for jobs, so there's kind of a counterbalance to some 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:42.680 of the things that feel threatening out there. And I 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.280 think you just see people proceeded with caution, but also 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.280 feeling like they want to get out and spend a 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.080 little bit more and get out and do things again. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.600 What's happening in the venture capital environment? Because there has 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.439 been a ton of money flooding into the ecosystem and 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:59.240 valuations have been high. I'm hearing that valuations are starting 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.400 to come down given this uncertainty. What are you say 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.919 that that is the hearing. I don't know how many 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.000 people have seen it yet, but I think it seems 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.600 like the practical or the expected thing to have happened, 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.359 you know, I think everybody's life has been different for 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.440 the last two years. We talked about the consumer's life 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.639 being different for the last couple of years, investors have 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.200 been too. I think we we went home on March 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.560 and thought like, we can't do our jobs because it's 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.840 such an in person type of job, and we learned 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.040 how to do that in a remote environment. Last year 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.520 was a record year for investing in the venture ecosystem. 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.040 It was almost more than two x the year before, 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.919 and so it was just like people at work focused 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:43.240 and just cranking, you know, cranking out making new investments. 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:44.760 And so I think this year, end of this year, 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.520 and you have a lot of new investments to navigate 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.560 in an uncertain environment, it's a good time to sort 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.040 of take a pause, make sure people are set up 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.400 for success, think about how you are going to set 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.040 priorities for this year. And the changing landscape. UM and 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.000 thing were frothy last year on a lot of levels. 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:04.959 It's you know, it's never all across the board. I mean, 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:06.800 there's a lot of innovation and there's a lot of 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:11.600 newness driving opportunity. So but the pause moment does give 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.679 people a chance to kind of reset a little bit. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.400 And I think that you know, that's probably healthy. It's 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.360 healthy for everybody. It's healthy for the ecosystem in general. 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.040 But it's more of a conversation right now and sort 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.920 of like how do we expect that to play out 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.480 than it is I think actual deal pricing. You've now 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.520 raised over a billion dollars in our last fund, and 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:37.600 you are celebrating the ten year anniversary of Forrunner Ventures. Yes, 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:39.760 what if the next ten years going to look like? 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.840 How do you put those hundreds of millions of dollars 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.760 to work? Yeah? I actually, um, you know, I feel 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.360 so invigorated to be entering this next decade with ten 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.960 years of experience working together as a team and still 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.560 being as excited about what we do and as ambitious 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:57.920 in the face of a tremendous amount of opportunity. So, 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.640 you know, you've been covering the tech industry for two 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.080 a couple of decades. I've been investing in it, but 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.000 in so many ways like it is out of place 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.320 now where it is ubiquitous, it is part of not 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.119