WEBVTT - Stacy Keach 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.720 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.400 Ask actor Stacy Keaches loyal fans why they love him, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.720 and they'll point to a dozen different roles. He's played 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.520 Richard the Third, King, Lear Hamlet, Falstaff, and Willie Lohman 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:27.320 The Trouble Is banda people don't seem to take to me. 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:34.480 Keach has played captains and kings, pugilists and pub crawlers. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.640 But before you typecast him as strictly drama, note Stacy 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.519 Keach's role as Sergeantstadanko in Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke, 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.760 or as the president of Duff Beer in The Simpsons. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.640 Take a hike, duff Man, You're a disgrace to the 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.680 Unitard And I know I'll never forget his cameo on 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.560 thirty Rock for its couchtown commercials. When did we get 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.959 so soft? You know what this country used to say? 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:06.440 It on logs, girders, poles, being comfortable. That's not what 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:11.480 America is all about. The Great thestcun Keach literally spit 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.040 into the camera for me. It was one of the 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.080 show's funniest bits. Ever. Keach is perhaps best known as 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:23.000 the irresistible, hotheaded, fedora wearing detective my camera, are you 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:29.920 for higher? My money is too dirty? Client unlesser performer 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.920 might have found himself with limited offers after what was 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.560 Keach's longest running job. Not so for the seventy one 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.119 year old actor. His key to career longevity is simple, 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.600 he says, quote, you need television and movies to make 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.160 a living, but you'll be taken more seriously if you 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.480 are stageworthy, stage worthy in Chicago and Washington, but especially 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.720 New York. New York audiences saw Keach most recently on 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:59.320 Broadway in John Robin Bates's play Other Desert Cities. Two 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.120 generations of a southern California family gather at Christmas and 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:07.160 find themselves reliving a painful family secret. Keach played the 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:11.440 conservative patriarch, and for him it was familiar territory. My 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.120 dad and my mom and dad were very conservative, and 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:19.160 every Easter, every Christmas we would take trips to Palm Springs, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.160 the Shadow Mountain Country Club in Palm Desert, where they 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.240 had water slides, the very first water slub. We spent 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:26.920 a lot of time down there with a lot of 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.440 conservative people in our business, you know, Republican you know, 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.120 so that was that was an environment that I was 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.480 very familiar. What's it like for you now to work 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.720 with younger actors who are very much of today. Do 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.160 you find that the good ones operate the same way 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.600 or are they different? They're different, They're very different way. Well, 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.760 for example, we had Justin Kirk came in for Tom 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.880 Tommy Sadowski to play Trip the young you know, and 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.000 he's an actor that is you wow, you know, I 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.560 mean every moment is something different where I mean, there's 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.079 no consistency in terms. The only thing that was consistent 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.840 was inconsistency. You never knew what it was going to come, 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.200 you know. I kind of like that. I don't mind it. 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.480 I mean, you know, I mean, as a younger actor, 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.320 I probably would have gone nuts. I wouldn't have been 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.919 able to deal with that because you know pattern, Well 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.120 that's right, but I like I like that, I like 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.040 spot many and I like flexibility, and I think that 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.040 you know that as you've also learned how to handle it, well, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.639 that's it. Keeach's philosophy about acting has changed over the years. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.200 I think in my early days I started pretty much 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.359 as you know, from the outside and tried to get 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.040 a fix on what the character looked like, and then 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.320 perhaps what he sounded like after that, But mainly it's 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.440 looked I think you know that that was when I 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.960 you know, and I it wasn't the best way to start. 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:47.880 I mean, I think it's better to start inside and 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.480 work out if you can't. And in later years I've 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.880 done that more and more. But I just finished a 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:58.480 picture with Alexander Payne called Nebraska, where he called me 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.280 and he said, you know you I was playing bad 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.400 guy in this, uh and he said, your teeth are 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:09.040 too good. So the whole character became centralized in terms 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.040 of you know, what I was in here. You know, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.520 they they made these snarly teeth for me, and which 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:16.320 it was great, you know, and it sort of gave 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:17.800 me a feel and I would look at myself in 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:22.159 the mirror and make you know, facial expressions, and that 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.440 sort of gave me the feeling of where this guy 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.680 was coming from, you know. But it varies. I mean, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.520 if you're playing like I was just down in Washington, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.840 I'm gonna do false Staff again next year. And uh, 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.800 you know, he's just a big, fat, corpulent guy and 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.880 interesting me enough, even with all the physical manifestations of 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.719 that character. That character you got to go inside. I 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.920 mean that's you know. And when I was not enough 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.840 just to play the the look, No, not at all, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.360 not at all. When I first did it was back 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:59.560 in Kaintive years ago. You did what Falstaff And what 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:01.920 did they a suit on you? Oh? Huge, just big. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.120 You're very lean guy. I was, you know, and I 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.839 had to wear this big, fat suite the only Aldridge 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.359 designers leather costume for me. And what did they do 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.200 back then in terms of your face when you're lean? 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:18.200 Whiskers had a week of course and a bulbous knows 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.880 And I was shooting a picture in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.920 into the Road with the James Earl Jones and Harris 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.240 Jule And I was shooting during the day and had 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.360 to go on stage in the park at night. So 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.239 I'd get in a car at five o'clock in the afternoon. 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.440 We'd drive down the tocnic and and I'd be making 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.440 up in the car in the front seat as we 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.200 You were shooting a movie with Harris Elan and James W. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.120 Jones in the Berkshires and you would drive down to 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.359 Central Park to do eight shows. Well, to do with 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.960 the five shows out of the weekend. Well, I guess so, yeah, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:58.400 it was they didn't do. But nevertheless, it was an experience. 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.000 I mean, you know, to be making up in the 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.159 car and looking you know, and Busters would come up 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.360 beside me maybe you know, looking at look at with 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.080 this crazy guy doing there. But it was an experience. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:14.640 But anyway, I went and saw orson Wells two Chimes 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.240 at Midnight one he did in that film. I thought 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.680 it was a great performance. He personalized that guy so much. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.720 It was like it wasn't he wasn't. He didn't put 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.880 any spin on it at all. He was just talking 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.240 right from his heart. I mean it was right, you know, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.680 he was really centered on that guy. And I thought 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.360 to myself, that's the key. I mean, you've got to 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.440 find the equivalent of that for you when you when 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:37.920 you get in there and when you get inside the 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.839 fat suit, You're gonna have to find the personalization of that. 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:42.760 You know, what was it about way too young? When 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:44.279 I played him? I was gonna say, what was it 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:48.080 about you that back then, when you were this athletic, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.360 lean leading man in the movie business, you want to 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.520 put a fat suit on it? Why were you running 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.960 into Why were you diving into a fat suit? Well, 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.880 because you know it one of great parts, because I 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.200 and that is one of the probably, I think of 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.359 all of Shakespeare's characters, I think it's probably one of 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.120 the You know that in Hamlin are probably the two greatest. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.640 Better than Lead, I think. I mean, it's a it's 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.200 a greater part. It's more, it's there's much more going 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.920 on with fall Staff. And and you're gonna do it again. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.760 So you did fal stuff the first time, Win sixty 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.480 eight in the park. Oh yeah, it makes me feel 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.560 very young forty five years later, forty five years later, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:29.360 you're gonna play stuff and I won't have to wear 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.600 panting this No, I'm what are you doing it for? 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.240 Michael conn at the Shakespeare Theater in Washington, d C. Yeah, 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.000 we're gonna do both parts. We're gonna do part one 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.680 in part two. One of the great experiences of my 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.440 life was doing those plays together in the park. We 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.440 started at ten o'clock at night and we did we 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.720 did Part one and then Part two, and as the 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.120 dawn came up in the the end of the evening 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.280 was the early morning. It was just when Falstaff was 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:04.400 being deposed by until played by Sam Waterston. Yeah, what 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.880 what's the role that you've played U film or television 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:13.400 or stage? That was an extraordinarily difficult, if not even painful. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.320 And I don't mean the the the events around the show. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.040 I don't know, you know, the producer was a bastard. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.560 I mean the playing the part itself was extraordinary. Scottish play, 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.800 the Scottish playing. Where did you do that? I did 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.480 that in washing as well? Yeah? How long ago? That 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.320 was about twelve years ago. How old are you now? Seven? 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:34.920 I'll be seventy two in June. So you did it 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.240 when you were sixty years old? You play something like that? Yeah? 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.280 I used to say that. You know, you work your 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.640 butt off playing that part. And the woman gets all 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.440 the glory, you know, and she takes all the thunder, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.240 you know it. But it's a it's an amazing play. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.520 I mean, it's a very it's a beautifully written play, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:53.920 and it's very poetic, and it's very got some wonderful 0:08:53.960 --> 0:09:00.160 ideas in it. But the guy is not sympathetic. There's 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:01.560 just you know, you just have to give, you have 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.280 to give, You have to give up trying to make 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.439 people feel sorry. For you. That's a very good point 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.679 you make, because that's probably a flaw that I've had 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.520 in a lot of what I've done. We all just 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.760 tried to make him sympathetic. We all we want, you know, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.560 we want. When I didn't, I think it works better 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.679 and other roles I played, when I just gave up 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:17.640 on that just yeah, you know, so that was a 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.920 tough role for you. What it was well because you know, again, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.160 trying to make him sympathetic, wrong, bad choice, you know, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.080 And I stole a bit from Olivier when you know, 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.480 when the ghost appears, he jumped on the banquet table 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.280 and he was, you know, he was he jumped on 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.079 top of the table with all that, And I thought, 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:43.640 well that's yeah, ms well and then yeah, so that's 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.320 it worked. That worked, and from that point on, you know, 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:48.920 once I sort of felt like I was, you know, 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.520 I was. The madness liberated me in a way, It 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:58.280 liberated Yeah, then it more on glued. You are the 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.600 choices complying at of you something like I'm vending machines 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.760 sometimes in that state, that's right. Yeah, you grew up 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.720 where I grew up in southern California, and your dad 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.640 was in the business. Dad was in the business. He 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.640 was an actor, director, producer. He did a show, a 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.920 radio show called Tales of the Texas Rangers with Joel McCrae, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:20.839 and that when I was twelve years old. He used 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.400 to take me down to NBC studios and I would 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.760 watch these actors do their thing was a live radio 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.280 broadcast with all the folly and the sound effects and 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.120 the horses and you know, and that was magic for me. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.560 And radio was how I sort of got it. Worked 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.720 in radio. Yeah, that was that was his thing. He 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.600 was also an actor. He played small parts. He remember 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.400 used to come home after doing a guest shot on 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.640 Tales on the Lone Ranger or who was the Dragonnett 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.600 Gets Smart was a show that he did. And was 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.840 your mom in the business. No, but she when she 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:55.959 was at Northwest and that's where she met my dad, 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.319 and they weren't Northwestern together, and she was an actress 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.880 at that time, but she never pursued it. What did 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.520 he say to you? What was his uh program with 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:07.000 you so to stick in terms of your career? Did 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.760 he want you to do this? Absolutely not. He said, no, 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.439 you know, acting is not something you should do. You 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.120 want to be you wanted me to be a lawyer, 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.400 and you want my brother to be a doctor. He said, 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.800 you know it's it's to this business. The two fraught 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.920 with want to do that? Did you think about, well, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.680 you know what when I graduate, I started acting in 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.560 high school junior high school, was doing plays, and every 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.760 time I would get apart in a play, my dad 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.320 would get very excited. He would get very animated, and 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.160 he wanted to show me, Like, for example, I was 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.680 doing the stage Manager in our town in high school 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.679 and he would come in and he was his favorite play, 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:42.360 and he showed me. He said, not when you're when 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.200 you're describing that, He said, you describe that big butternut tree. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.600 You've got to see that tree. And when you're when 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:52.360 you're working in the in the drug store and you're 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.680 getting ice cream out of the out of the ice 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.000 cream box, you've got to reach your hand weight down 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.000 and then put it. I mean, he was so animated. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.000 He came specific, very specific, and very much alive. So 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.880 all of his b ass about not do this, You're 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.360 not going to do this. You're gonna be a lawyer, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.280 you know what you think? Because he wasn't as successful 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.240 that as he wanted to be that. He wanted you 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.120 more to be a success, because that's very cold. That's 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.160 that's what I experienced with my dad. My dad mad 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.080 had no money. He was a school teacher. He was 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.319 constantly under the gun and about money. It was tormented him. 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:26.960 And I think when he looked at me, he was like, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.959 it's less about what you want to be that it 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.960 is about being successful at something. I think that, Well, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.960 our dad did he drive you in that direction? Absolutely? 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.240 So when you wound up, did he live long enough 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.040 to see you? What did he? Well, then that was 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.000 the good part. And then you're a genius. Yeah, well 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.360 then then it was a good thing because it wasn't 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.840 until I got to Berkeley and I was started. You know, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.680 I was given an edict, You're not going to be 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:57.160 in any place first year as a freshman. You I 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.560 was studying political science and economics. I mean, that was it. 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:01.040 You know, I was going to I was going to 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.160 do the same thing, you know. And that was you know, 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.600 and and there, and they don't think you're worthy in 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.959 your first year. They want you to wait, that's right. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.120 So at the end of the first year I got 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.120 to play finally, and I passed. I got through the 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.320 first year and he said, okay, if you want to 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:17.840 do a play, you can do a play. So I 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.560 did a play and and that was it. It was 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.880 a play called to Learn to Love was written by 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.040 one of the professors, and it was about these navy 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.280 guys and it was a big hit on campus. Professor 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.360 cast me the next semester as to Flores and the 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.640 Change League Jack Oby in play written by Thomas Middleton 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.160 Middleton and Raleigh. Great great piece, sort of a Richard 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.320 the Third type of character. And I had, you know, 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.840 success with that, and my my parents came and saw 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.720 me and they said, well, I guess you know, you 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:48.720 may have some talent, so maybe if this is what 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.320 you want to do, we'll support you. So they came, 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:53.480 you had some talents. At least they thought that you're 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.760 you're onto something. Yeah, And I loved it. I mean, 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.280 and I couldn't stand economics and put a little science man. 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.280 I was terristed at USC Berkeley, Berkeley up in Berkeley. Yeah, 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:04.880 and you finished, she went all four years that. I 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.440 went for a degree in drama. I got a degree 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.160 in drama English. Yeah, and then what did you do 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.440 after that? And then I went, I went to Yale 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.160 Drama School for a year. What was the program that 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:15.760 was it? Was it longer than a year or you 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.200 finished the you know, it was a three year program. 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:22.240 I only stayed a year. I didn't like it at all. Well, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.520 in those days, Constance Welsh was the acting teacher, and 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.720 she was pretty much very much old school. They didn't 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.320 know in those days whether they were training people for 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.760 the academic theater or for the professional theater, to be 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.040 teachers or to be professional and big distinction, big distinction. 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.640 And it was, you know, learning all these fonetic signs 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.400 and symbols, and I mean, this had nothing to do 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.240 with what I was interested in. And I had just 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.800 I had done two summers at the Oregon Shakes Peare 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.320 Festival between my junior and senior year, in between my 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.120 senior year and my first year Yale, and play some 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.280 pretty good part Henry the Fifth and Rick Cut Show 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.760 and Barn and sort of I was getting my feet 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.520 wet with Shakespeare and these big wonderful Shakespeare a part 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.080 of your your childhood. And you give me, why are 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.200 you so? You're pretty much steeped in Shakespeare early stage 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.000 cere Why this is just your own passion. Oregon Shakespeare 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.760 Festival that was responsible for you that you went there 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:17.920 and you were at home. That's right, That's where it started. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.240 That's where it started. And then when I came back east, 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.880 I was at Yale and I wasn't crazy about Yale 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.760 because no more phonetic symbols, right, no more for you know. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.560 And Joe after that year where Joe found you, Joe, 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.040 Joe Papa and I'm well, thanks the Organ Shakespeare Festival. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.920 You were ready, Yeah, I think so. Henry Hughes Saturday. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.520 He was. He was a drama critic for the Saturday Review. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.280 Wrote a nice review of me doing Henry the Fifth. 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.600 Joe had read that, And when I got to Yale 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.240 I called the New York Schase Profestival one day audition. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.240 He said, come on down. So I went and I 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.560 met Joe pap and in this smoke field office and 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.520 here in Manhattan, I sat down and he said, okay, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.080 what are you gonna do it for me? I said, 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.640 to do a little piece from Henry the Fifth upon 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.320 the and I started reading. I got three. I got 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:04.920 upon the King let us our lives and that's it. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.960 Are you remember of equity? I said, no, we're going 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.760 to be You're gonna play Marcellus in my production of 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.200 Hamlet this summer. Julie Harris is going to be playing Ophelia. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.280 Alfred Ryder is going to be playing Hamlet. We'll see 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.080 you this summer. That was it. I walked out there. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.520 I was floating on it. I mean, that was it, 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:30.320 you know. And then summer of sixty three, sixty sixty four, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.040 and that summer moved to New York. Yeah, And for 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.440 that summer I did, yeah, And then I went to 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.240 England after that on a Fulbright scholarship to the London 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.560 Academy Music and Dramatic Art to study for a year. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.200 Well why did you stop? And now you've got I mean, 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.080 I wonder if this is the beginning of a pattern 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.160 where you get the hot hand here and Joe Pap 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.200 wants you, and then you say, okay, hold on those 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:55.680 I gotta go over to London for a year. Well 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.440 that's it. And he was not happy about that, Joe, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.240 And interestingly enough, he was also I didn't realize this 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.080 was just a coincidence. He was on the screening committee 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.560 for the full Bright Guys and when I came in, 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.520 he said, what are you here for? And I said, 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.120 I'm antitioning for you. And he said, don't do upon 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.560 the king again. I've seen it, you know, do something else. 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.639 And he was tough, and he was tough, and I 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.399 did not. I was not given Fullbright. I was chosen 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:22.800 as an alternate. I was really depressed lambda that summer. 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.639 I got a note from the Fullbright commission saying, the 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.240 guy who was supposed to go dropped out, So you're in. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.160 So I made it by the skin of your said, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.199 you know why, Lamba, were you going to change for 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.879 the musical theater? No? No classical theater? And you were 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:41.679 there for a year? Was every year? What did you 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.600 benefit from that? Well? First of all, the exposure to 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:49.040 the English theater in that year was unbelieved and comparable, unbelievable. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.720 And I got to see I saw Olivier do not 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:56.000 only othello, I saw him do the master builder, saw 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.359 his production that he directed, of the of the of 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.880 the crew sabll It was. It was an amazing here. 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.960 Were you ever tempted to stay there? Did you feel 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.440 you belonged there? No Americans doing classical theater still has 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.119 looked on a little bit of skance by the English. 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.399 I mean, you know, just like we don't you know, 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.400 I don't want them to touch with Williams. I exactly, 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.879 it's the same deal, you know. So you finished there 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.280 and you came right home. I came back. Then I 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.960 came to Lincoln Center and I auditioned for Jules Irving 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.800 and Herbert Blah who were just coming from the Actor's 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.760 Workshop in San Francisco where when I had been, when 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:33.120 I had been as a student at Berken, I knew 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:34.800 all those actors and I'd got and see a lot 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.760 of their shows. And a lot of those actors were 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.280 also at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. This huddle, Robert Phelan, 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.639 Dan Sullivan, it was now, of course one of our 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.840 best directors. Um this was the company. So I went 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.679 and I auditioned. They said, you're you know, come on in, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.159 you're the you know you're in the company. So I 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.440 was married at the time. Why did you do that? 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:59.600 I know? That was that was But we moved to 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.400 New York and uh and I spent that first year 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:11.440 Danton's death, the country Wife, the condemned Avoutona by Jean 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.440 Paul Sartre and the Caucasian chalk circle, not which you 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.439 would call a banner, you know, commercial season and they 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.000 and they just gotten murdered. These guys, they just got 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:21.960 well because they came in thinking they were going to 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.320 change the New York Theater. Wrong. Who Who was your 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.480 first wife? Her name is Katherine Baker and she was 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.440 where did you meet her at the airport while you 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.919 were going from one location? Not white but anyway, but 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.400 she she was my college sweetheart. She was your college sweetheart. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.480 And I'm gonna ask you this as we go down 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.320 the road here for each of your wife, what are 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.800 you talking about? What do you think she loved about you? Oh? God? 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.000 Did she love that life you were living? And she 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.560 loved your passion and your commitment to acting? I have 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:58.000 no idea. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I know, God, 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.680 But did you feel at that time that you had 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.440 an intensity about you as an actor that was very, 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:08.320 very attractive to other people? Did you feel that, you 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.240 don't know, I wasn't you were not? Were you saying 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.240 you weren't a ladies man? Well? I was, and I wasn't. 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.600 I mean, I you know, definitely, you know, I definitely 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.760 I love that. I love some that I was, and 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.840 I wasn't. What does that mean? Well, I love the lady. 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.080 I've always have. I loved ladies, you know. But but 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:29.600 there's a misogynistic element in my character that I think 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:34.280 I have to you know, do trust trust I? Yeah? No. 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.520 If I love somebody and you know I'm trusting, I'm 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.320