1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kettas live weekdays at noon 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: and five pm Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: There's a lot going on. 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 3: It seems that no one decided to take a break 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: from the news flow to give me an easier path 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 3: of return here on Bloomberg TV and radio. We have 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: a few things that we're watching on Capitol Hill, of course, 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 3: a looming potential partial shutdown come Friday, but also a 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 3: number of high profile figures giving testimony in the various 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: chambers today, one of whom is before Senate Committee, the 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik, facing some difficult questions, specifically about 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 3: his relations with Jeffrey Epstein, of course, the late disgrace financier, 16 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 3: and a visit that the Commerce Secretary actually made to 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 3: Epstein's Caribbean island and some years ago. He was pressed 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 3: on that, and this is his response. 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 4: I literally met him three times over fourteen years, with 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 4: widespread in between. That's all I can remember. That's all 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 4: there is in the documents. I didn't look through the 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 4: documents with any fear whatsoever, because I know and my 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 4: wife knows, that I have done absolutely nothing wrong. 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 5: Now we should know that he was to be testifying 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 5: about broadband deployment, so the timing was difficult for the 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 5: Commerce Secretary, having told a podcast last year that he 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 5: vowed in two thousand and five to never again be 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 5: in the same room as Epstein, who was his neighbor 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 5: at one point on the Upper east Side. These documents, though, 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 5: suggest he continued interactions with Epstein, including that visit to 31 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 5: the island as late as twenty twelve, several years after 32 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 5: his conviction, prompting the questions that we saw today now 33 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 5: in a completely separate hearing room. It was all about 34 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 5: Ice enforcement. We were watching these tandem hearings today, both 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 5: of which will inform what takes place over the course 36 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 5: of this week. Politically with this administration, DHS funding of 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 5: course in the balance right now, as the heads of 38 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 5: ICE and Customs and Border Protection faced questions in their 39 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 5: first testimony since the two fatal shootings in Minneapolis, and 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 5: for more on that, we turn to Bloomberg Washington correspondent 41 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 5: Tyler Kendall. This plays directly into the debate around funding. Tyler, 42 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 5: We've got four days until a homeland funding deadline, and 43 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 5: this really exposed the fault lines. 44 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 2: In this debate right exactly. 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 6: It seems like both parties are pretty far apart at 46 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 6: this point. It's unclear if negotiations are happening or if 47 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 6: we're really added impass because it kind of depends on 48 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 6: who you ask on Capitol Hill. If you look to 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 6: Republican leadership, like Senate Majority Leader John Thune, he's saying 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 6: that there's some optimism here. He's saying that the sides 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 6: are engaging in good faith discussions, as he put it. 52 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 6: But then you ask the Democratic side and they do 53 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 6: not seem impressed with what Republicans have put on the table. 54 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 6: In fact, we heard earlier from Democratic leadership and a 55 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 6: statement the Democratic leader in the House HACKEM. Jeffries and 56 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 6: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer who called the Republican's counter 57 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 6: proposal woefully inadequate in his words. So there's a lot 58 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 6: that we have to watch going forward here. It appears 59 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 6: very evident that we're not going to see full fiscal 60 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 6: year funding for the Department of homeland security. So then 61 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 6: the question becomes whether or not they can reach that 62 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 6: continuing resolution to kick the can down the road. But 63 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 6: at this point it feels like the two sides are 64 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 6: pretty far apart. After Democrats outlined their top ten demands, 65 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 6: we know some of those are non starters for the party, 66 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 6: like new warrant requirements or demasking as it's being called, 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 6: of federal agents that are doing these immigration operations. 68 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 3: All right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendell, or Washington correspondent, thank you 69 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: so much. It's good to see you Tyler here on 70 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: Bloomberg TV and Radio. And as Tyler just said, how 71 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: you feel about the likelihood of a shutdown or the 72 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: progress being made on this ice reform issue probably depends 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: on who you ask on Capitol Hill. So we're going 74 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: to ask someone there right now. Joining us, I'm pleased 75 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: to say live from the House is Republican Congressman Brian 76 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: Style of Wisconsin. He, of course, is the chair of 77 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 3: the House Administration Committee. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Sarah, 78 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 3: it's good to see you. It's been a while since 79 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: we've talked. Is you've just heard Tyler say, it seems 80 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: that there is still a bit of daylight between Republicans 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 3: and Democrats on what reforms both can actually get behind. 82 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: Sir, what would you be willing to accept? 83 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 7: Cayley, Welcome back. Here we are again Democrats threatening a shutdown, 84 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 7: and this time a portion of the federal government if 85 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 7: they don't get their way. I think what we need 86 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 7: to do is have cooler heads prevail. The Department of 87 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 7: Homeland Security is an essential agency that covers not only ICE, 88 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 7: but also Coast Guard, TSA in other essential federal government programs, 89 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 7: and so the threat of a shutdown is unproductive. At 90 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 7: an absolute minimum, we should pass a continuing resolution, and 91 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 7: in fact, the House pass complete funding for the entire 92 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 7: fiscal year in a bipartisan vote. So the end of 93 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 7: the day, what we need to see is Senate Democrats 94 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 7: come to the table to make sure that we can 95 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 7: get sixty votes in the Senate fund this for the 96 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 7: full year. Allow cooler heads to prevail, and I think 97 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 7: what we're seeing is more and more local jurisdictions cooperating 98 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 7: with ICE, and that prevents some of the more challenging 99 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 7: situations that we've had. 100 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 5: Hey, Congressman, there are a lot of questions about the 101 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 5: way this goes, and the calendar is not a friend. 102 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 5: At the moment, there was only a two week continuing resolution, 103 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 5: So here we are again up against the deadline. If 104 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 5: Democrats and Republicans can't come to terms in the next 105 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 5: couple of days. Here, would you support a continuing resolution 106 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 5: of that duration again or should it be something longer 107 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 5: so we don't have to keep coming back around on these. 108 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 7: You know, I don't love crs, but boy, they're better 109 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 7: than shutting down the government or a portion of the government. 110 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 7: In this case, two weeks is pretty insufficient for Congress 111 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 7: to operate. It's too bad that's the case. I'd be 112 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 7: open to even a slightly longer CR. But again, this 113 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 7: final negotiation is going to take place between about ten 114 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 7: Democrats in the United States Senate with President Trump. It's 115 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 7: trusting that they can land this plane. Cooler heads prevail, 116 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 7: getting local jurisdictions to cooperate with ice, and giving that 117 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 7: time to reach agreement on this funding deal, I think 118 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 7: is what's going to ultimately be required. 119 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: Well, so while the work on a funding agreement happens 120 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 3: in the background, Congressmen, you of course are doing work 121 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 3: of your own, including holding a committee hearing on Election 122 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: integrity today as well, of course, having introduced the Make 123 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: Elections Great Again, the Mega Act around Election Security. That 124 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: Act as well as the SAVE Act, which of course 125 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: is a kind of tantem effort going on. Congressman was 126 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: criticized by Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski as effectively federalizing elections. 127 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: Is that what you are intending to do? How do 128 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: you avoid doing that? 129 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 7: Article one, section four gives authority both to the states 130 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 7: to opera elections, but also the authority for Congress to 131 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 7: make sure that there's clear laws to make sure that 132 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 7: we have confidence in our elections. The Mega Active portion, 133 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 7: which is the Save Act, puts forward common sense reforms 134 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 7: to reinstate America's trust in our elections. I think it's 135 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 7: common sense that we should require, for example, photo identification 136 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 7: when an individual goes to the polls. I have to 137 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 7: do that. If you want a board an airplane, you 138 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 7: want to open a bank accounter, heck, you want to 139 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 7: buy a six pack of beer, you need to show 140 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 7: photo identification. So it's common sense, it's popular. This is 141 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 7: far from the takeover argument that some are attempting to make. 142 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 7: It's putting in baseline standards so that all Americans have 143 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 7: confidence our elections are being run accurately and fairly. 144 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 8: Do you worry about mission creep here? 145 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 5: If I can use that term, Congressman, When you hear 146 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 5: President Trump talking about nationalizing elections and taking it out 147 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 5: of the hands of the states in the case of 148 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 5: sanctuary cities or states that have sanctuary cities, he says 149 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 5: Republicans should run those elections, isolating about fifteen states he 150 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 5: thinks need that kind of attention. Does that run against 151 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 5: the conservative principles that you bring to the table. 152 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 7: Well, I think what it is is putting in baseline 153 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 7: standards that are needed to operate our elections. Again, the 154 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 7: states are going to be the ones operating the elections, 155 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 7: but I do think it's appropriate to have a federal 156 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 7: standard with which every state must meet in an absolute minimum. 157 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 7: Sixteen states, for example, don't require photo identification when an 158 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 7: individual goes to vote. Again, I think all fifty states 159 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 7: should require that. We should end elections on election days 160 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 7: so the American public knows the results of elections on 161 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 7: the night of the elections. These are core principles, they're 162 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 7: common sense, and they instill confidence in our elections. What 163 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 7: we saw from the state of Georgia after they implemented 164 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 7: election integrity reform at twenty twenty one and they've run 165 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 7: two statewide elections is high voter participation, increasing confidence, and 166 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 7: as that occurs, more and more people are likely to participate, 167 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 7: which is a good thing for our democracy. 168 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: Well, and as we consider what will be on the 169 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 3: minds of the American electorate as they go to vote, Congressman, 170 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 3: we know the economy always features quite heavily in the 171 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: impact certain fiscal policies and others have on the economy, like, 172 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 3: for example, the impact of tariffs that have been levied 173 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 3: by the Trump administration. They were supposed to be just 174 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 3: a few hours from now a procedural vote, a rule 175 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: vote on what Speaker Johnson is pushing, essentially extending a 176 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: prohibition of calling snap votes on repealing the president's tariffs. 177 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: We now understand that has been postponed to eight thirty 178 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 3: pm this evening. It seems there's a little bit of 179 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 3: trouble in the water here, Congressman. Is a few of 180 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 3: your colleagues have suggested that they will not be voting 181 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: with the Speaker on this. 182 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: What are you hearing, Well, there's. 183 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 7: A lot of dialogue and discussion as to exactly how 184 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 7: we move forward. I think we have an opportunity here 185 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 7: to work with the presidents we strike trade deals, in 186 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 7: particular with our allies, to bring those trade barriers down 187 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 7: and to give American markets access into foreign markets. For 188 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 7: far too long, countries like China have taken advantage of 189 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 7: US trade agreements. In holding countries like China, along with 190 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 7: our allies accountable, I think is absolutely essential. We're going 191 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 7: to have a lot of dialogue and debate over this 192 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 7: or the next handful of hours, But at the end here, 193 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 7: I think the goal is to create these trade agreements 194 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 7: with our allies, and I think we have an opportunity 195 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 7: to do that. 196 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 5: You know, the Supreme Court at some point is going 197 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 5: to rule on this Congressman. In fact, we thought we 198 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 5: would possibly even know by now, how would that potentially 199 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 5: argue or complement a law passed by Congress when it 200 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 5: comes to the veracity of this teriff regime. 201 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 7: Well, for a number of years beyond just this administration, 202 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 7: we have seen executives, both at the presidential level as 203 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 7: well as governors, use emergency orders to take actions that 204 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 7: they would like to take without legislative approval. We saw 205 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 7: that all throughout the period of COVID. The case before 206 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 7: the Supreme Court, I think could be depending on how 207 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 7: it's written, transformative. As we understand emergency powers. Many of 208 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 7: the tariffs that the President put forward are dependent on 209 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 7: those emergency powers. The Supreme Court may rule, but I 210 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 7: think in lieu of that, I think what we would 211 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 7: like to see is the President continue to work and 212 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 7: finalize these trade agreements with our allies to provide real 213 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 7: stability in the trade agreements that we need to keep 214 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 7: our economy strong. 215 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 3: And just finally, Congressman, on the subject of the economy, 216 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 3: President Trump suggested an interview with Fox's Larry Cudlow that 217 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,599 Speaker 3: the economy could be growing at fifteen percent under the 218 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 3: leadership of Kevin Warsh if he is confirmed a s 219 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: FED share take a listen. 220 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 8: We should be at fifteen percent. If I'll tell you, 221 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 8: if our new. 222 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 9: Head of the FED, who I think is going to 223 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 9: be great, and he's a really high quality person, but 224 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 9: if he does the job that he's capable, we can 225 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 9: grow at fifteen percent. 226 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 8: I think more than that. 227 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,599 Speaker 3: You sit on the Financial Services Committee, Congressman, do you 228 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: buy fifteen percent GDP growth? 229 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 2: In the United States of America. 230 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 7: Well when we all love to see it, but I 231 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 7: think we got a ton of run room in front 232 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 7: of us. The underlying economy in the United States is strong. 233 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 7: If we continue to work to remove the burdens that 234 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 7: have been put in place through red tape, through high regulations, 235 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 7: through taxes, and we work to empower the American economy, 236 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 7: I think we're going to continue to see strong economic growth. 237 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 7: I think it's great that the President is out there 238 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 7: cheerleading for the country and putting a high bar in 239 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 7: front of us, but we should all be working to 240 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 7: drive forward economic growth. In particular as we look at 241 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 7: a period of time where debt and deficits are significant 242 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 7: challenges in front of us. The biggest answer to get 243 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 7: out of this situation is to grow the economy at 244 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 7: rates that we haven't seen. We've seen strong economic growth 245 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 7: over the course of the past few quarters. I think 246 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 7: we have an opportunity to continue to build on that success. 247 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,599 Speaker 5: Congressman, it's great to have you back. Thank you for 248 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 5: the insights. As always, Brian Style of Wisconsin, the chairman 249 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 5: of the House Admin Committee. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee 250 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 5: Lions Live in Washington. This is Ballance of Power on 251 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 5: Bloomberg TV and Radio. We assemble our panel for their 252 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 5: take on everything we just heard. Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie 253 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 5: Shanzano and Rick Davis back together now. GENI is our 254 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 5: Democratic Analystmocracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. 255 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 5: Rick a Republican strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital. 256 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 5: I'm going to park the fifteen percent economic growth over 257 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 5: here for just a minute. Janie, did that make you 258 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 5: think that we might avoid a government shutdown? Or is 259 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 5: it just a question of how long the CR needs 260 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 5: to be? 261 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 2: Well, it was. 262 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 10: Good to hear the representative is open to the CR, 263 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 10: and I agree with him it should be more than 264 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 10: two weeks if he gets it. I am not convinced 265 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 10: myself listening to that committee hearing. Hopefully you know I'm wrong, 266 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 10: but I'm not convinced they're going to get there. And 267 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 10: I think one of the big questions on the Republican side, 268 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 10: or for the Republicans, is why are you committed to 269 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 10: the masking, the docsing and everything else they've talked about. 270 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 10: No federal officials are masked except for certain circumstances. None 271 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 10: of our law enforcement officials are masked. Why is that 272 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 10: going to be a bridge that you would quote unquote 273 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 10: die on. So that's something. And then, of course why 274 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 10: oppose judicial warrants? The other big sticking point, that's the constant. 275 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 10: So I think there is room to maneuver. But we 276 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 10: haven't heard those conversations yet, and they're going to be 277 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 10: critical to getting a deal on this. 278 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: Well and rick something else we're hearing from Republicans as 279 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 3: ICE was already funded through the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. 280 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 3: So if you shut down, you're shutting down TSA and FEMA. 281 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 3: Is that a winning argument for them? 282 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 8: First of all, great to have you back, Kayley. 283 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 11: Yeah, I don't think it's a winning argument for either 284 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 11: side at this point. What's kind of interesting is nobody 285 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 11: seems to have any leverage on this. I don't know 286 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 11: anybody who actually thinks it's a great idea to shut 287 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 11: down DHS, at least the non ICE portions of it. 288 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 11: Nobody has articulated a reason to want to do that, 289 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 11: and yet nobody also seems to want to compromise. You've got, 290 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 11: you know, ten guardrails the Democrats put out to me 291 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 11: it's as simple as coming up with you know, pick 292 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 11: five of those and one of them can be masking. 293 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 3: All right, go for one hundred percent, maybe get fifty percent. 294 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: We'll see one hundred percent of our panel here with 295 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: us today, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shansey. I know they'll 296 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: be back for more in just a few minutes as 297 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 3: we get ready to talk to the chair of the 298 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: d Triple C. She's in charge of getting Democrats elected 299 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: to the House, Congressman Susan Delbeney will be with us 300 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 3: next here in Balance of Power live from Washington. 301 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 5: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much 302 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 5: more coming up after this. 303 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ketchys 304 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple 305 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 306 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 307 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 308 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 3: I'm Kaylee Lines back in Washington alongside Joe Matthew here 309 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 3: on Bloomberg TV and Radio. I'm on air for the 310 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: first time in twenty twenty six, actually on air for 311 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 3: the first time since U midway through twenty twenty five. 312 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: But it's good to be back, Joe, and it's good 313 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: to be back, especially at the beginning innings here of 314 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 3: a midterm year. Yes, we have a lotctions coming up 315 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 3: in November, just about nine months from now, and of 316 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 3: course all eyes are focused specifically on whether or not 317 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 3: Republicans can retain control here in Washington. The area in 318 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 3: which that might be most vulnerable to changes, of course, 319 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: the House of Representative, where the margins are already incredibly tight, 320 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: difficult for Speaker Johnson, and Democrats are feeling pretty optimistic 321 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 3: that they could become the majority. Even more optimistic if 322 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: you take a look at what the D Triple C 323 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: is putting out today. They're targeting five more seats in 324 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: this cycle, bringing the total, Joe to forty four. 325 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 5: Democratic optimism is on the rise. One thing that has 326 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 5: crept into the sort of daily conversation since you left 327 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 5: us six months ago is the Senate being in play, 328 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 5: and I mean to the point of where we're calling 329 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 5: it a very favorable map and a favorable bit of 330 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 5: timing for Democrats. We're going to focus on the House 331 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 5: now to your point with the woman who is charged 332 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 5: with getting Democrats elected and retaking the majority. The D 333 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 5: Triple C announcing its second expansion. It's out with this 334 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 5: map that contains to Kayley's point five additional seats Colorado, Minnesota, Montana, 335 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 5: South Carolina, and Virginia. Congresswoman Susan del bene is chair 336 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 5: of the D Triple C. The Democrat from Washington State 337 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 5: joins us. Right now, congress women, it's great to see you. 338 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 5: Welcome back. It's nice to see you, as Kaylee returns 339 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 5: to our conversation, Yes, exactly. We had to bring the 340 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 5: share woman here for this opportunity. 341 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 8: I'm just wondering, you add five, what's. 342 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 5: Emboldening you and making you feel ever more confident to 343 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 5: have a second revision to this map. 344 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 12: Well, we're listening to the American people, and all across 345 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 12: the country people are souring on the Republican agenda. Families 346 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 12: are hurting in every corner of the country. It's hard 347 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 12: to get by. There's no interest from Republicans and addressing 348 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 12: the affordable affordability issues that they're feeling across the country. 349 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 12: You know, Republicans promised to lower costs on day one, 350 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 12: prices are skyrocket all because of actions of this administration 351 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 12: and Republicans in Congress. People want representatives who are going 352 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 12: to stand up for them. And so we have opportunities 353 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 12: all across the country. And as you said, we added 354 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 12: five more because there are five more opportunities we have 355 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 12: to flip the House. So forty four in total on 356 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 12: our offensive map, we need to net three to take 357 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 12: back the gavels in November. 358 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a relatively small number, Chairwoman, and thank 359 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 3: you for the warm welcome back. As we consider what 360 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 3: you were just talking about here, the notion that Americans 361 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 3: are hurting from a financial standpoint, this still seems to 362 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 3: be an economy argument. You think you're on the side 363 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: of winning. 364 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: Is that true? 365 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 3: Is it not a shift in the wind on immigration 366 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 3: and ice, for example, that you also. 367 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: Are hoping to ride here. 368 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 12: You know, across the country people are struggling and prices 369 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 12: of skyrocketed food, housing, healthcare, childcare, energy costs all going 370 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 12: up and all going up because of actions of this administration, 371 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 12: and they don't care. You heard the President talk about 372 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 12: affordability as a hoax. You've heard them say that the 373 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 12: economy is doing great. But the reason that people don't 374 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 12: listen to that anymore is because that's not what they're feeling, 375 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 12: that's not what they're seeing in their checkbook right now. 376 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 12: So they need folks who are going to stand up 377 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 12: for them. We have folks, incredible candidates running across the 378 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 12: country going to stand up, fight to make sure that 379 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 12: American families are doing well, not just fight for the 380 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 12: wealthy and well connected that seems to be the focus 381 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 12: of Republicans. And yes, fight for safety in our communities, 382 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 12: fight for due process. 383 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 2: All these issues are important. 384 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 12: Affordability is what we're hearing from folks in every part 385 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 12: of the country. 386 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 5: Congresswoman, you started talking about the fundamental reasons why you 387 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 5: think these seats are in play, pointing to the economy. 388 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 5: Of course, here you just mentioned immigration, add healthcare price hiking, 389 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 5: tariffs to your point, I'm wondering about the technicals here. 390 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 5: These new targets are all in districts that President Trump 391 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 5: won by thirteen percent or less. 392 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 8: What brought you to that threshold? 393 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 5: Was it internal polling or the anecdotal evidence you're pointing to, Well, we. 394 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 12: Look at all of these districts, specifically at what's happening 395 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 12: down the ground in these districts. But yes, all of 396 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 12: these districts Trump won by thirteen points or less. In 397 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 12: special elections across the country, Democrats have been running thirteen 398 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 12: points ahead, and in congressional special elections since November of 399 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 12: twenty twenty four, Democrats have been running seventeen points ahead 400 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 12: across the country. But if you look at these districts specifically, 401 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 12: I'll take Minnesota one as an example. Amy Klobish are 402 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 12: Democratic senator there has won in that district twice. We 403 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 12: look kind of at these districts and we know that 404 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 12: they have folks who want to stand up for them. 405 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 12: And when we have great candidates running who are talking 406 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 12: about the issues that matter, we can win. We had 407 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 12: fourteen Democrats win in districts that Donald Try also won 408 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 12: in in twenty twenty four. Now that support for Trump 409 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 12: has tanked, people are tired of Republicans who are not 410 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 12: addressing the issues that matter for them, making their lives worse. 411 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 12: So we have strong support across the country, great candidates 412 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 12: absolutely reason we'll take back the House in November. 413 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 3: Well, Congressman, As we consider the policies of President Trump, 414 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: any of which of course do affect the economy, tariffs 415 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,479 Speaker 3: are one of those that may feature most prominently. We 416 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: were just talking with your Republican colleague, Brian Style of 417 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 3: Wisconsin about the now postponed procedural vote on a rule 418 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 3: to advance the Speaker's effort to essentially put another block 419 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: on calling snap votes to repeal President Trump's tariffs. It 420 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 3: seems that there are some Republicans who, along with Democrats, 421 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 3: would not like to see that go forward. 422 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 2: What are you. 423 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 3: Hearing from your colleagues across the aisle who are a 424 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: bit hesitant around the president's tariff policy. Do you think 425 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 3: the midterms are the reason why. 426 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 12: Well, let's be clear, Congress has the authority and Congress 427 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 12: needs to vote on these tariffs. It is just astounding 428 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 12: that Republicans, over and over again are even scared of 429 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 12: taking a vote on this. 430 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: Remember this vote that. 431 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 12: We're having today is so they can avoid taking a 432 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 12: vote on tariffs. And yet that's our job as members 433 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 12: of Congress to vote on important issues, and this is 434 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 12: an issue that Congress needs to weigh in on. If 435 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 12: they think these tariffs are great, then they can vote 436 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 12: yes and support Trump sweeping tariffs that are raising prices 437 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 12: across the country. But they aren't don't even have the 438 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 12: courage to stand up and just take a vote. They 439 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 12: are hiding, and they're trying again through this vote today 440 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 12: to hide again so they don't have to take a vote. 441 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 12: That's another reason people across the country are souring on Republicans. 442 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 12: They want representatives who are going to stand up for them. 443 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 12: We should stand up and stand up as a coequal 444 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 12: branch in Congress. Take a vote. If you like those tariffs, 445 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 12: they can vote yes. But I have been fighting against 446 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 12: these these sweeping tariffs. The president doesn't have. This is 447 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 12: the and let's be clear, these are taxes on the 448 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 12: American people. It's raising costs on families across the country. 449 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 5: We saw the response congresswan from Democratic leaders to the 450 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 5: restrictions on ice that Chuck Schumer and HACKEM. Jeffreys had 451 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 5: been put forth put forward. Rather, the response from the 452 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 5: administration was clearly not acceptable. Or are we going to 453 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 5: watch the Department of Homeland Security shut down Friday night? 454 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 12: This is really up to Republicans. People across the country 455 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 12: have been horrified by what they've seen all across the country. 456 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 12: Renee Good and Alex pretty being killed for no reason 457 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 12: in Minneapolis, horrific stories not only in Minnesota, but in 458 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 12: all parts of the country. Absolutely, people are demanding reforms. 459 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 12: We are demanding reforms too. There should be due process, 460 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 12: there should be a rule of law. That's what the 461 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 12: American people want to see. Republicans need to be listening 462 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 12: to their constituents. They should be standing up as well. Well. 463 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 12: If they are willing to actually do and listen to 464 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 12: their communities and do what their communities are asking for, 465 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 12: then we would be able to find a path forward. 466 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 12: But as we've seen in all things, they've been unwilling 467 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 12: to do that over and over again, and now they're 468 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 12: at risk of shutting down the Department of Homeland Security. 469 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 3: All right, Congresswoman, we appreciate you joining us here on 470 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 3: Bloomberg TV and radio. The Democratic Congressman from Washington, Susan Delbane, 471 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 3: chair of course of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, now 472 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 3: eyeing forty four potential pickups in terms of seats in 473 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 3: the midterms in November. So let's get a reaction to 474 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 3: that number as we reassemble our political panel here. Rick 475 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 3: Davis and Genie Shanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors are. 476 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: Still with us. 477 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 3: Genie, it does seem that democratic optimism is in the air. 478 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: Do you share it or do. 479 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 3: You think forty four might be a number that's quite high? 480 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 10: You know, I share it, and I think the representative 481 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 10: she made an excellent point. Democrats have been over performing 482 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 10: by seventeen points. They've won almost every, if not every 483 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 10: election since Donald Trump was elected, and of course they're 484 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 10: looking at the same polls we are, Kayley, And what 485 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 10: are those polls showing if this is a referendum on 486 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 10: the Trump administration and GOP control of Washington d C. 487 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 10: Even members of the Republican Party who helped elect Donald 488 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 10: Trump in twenty twenty four do not like what they're seeing, 489 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 10: particularly as it pertains to the economy, costs, inflation, and 490 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 10: this big issue of affordability, not to mention the other 491 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 10: issues of corruption, chaos, and what's happening in immigration. 492 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 8: You couple all that, it should be a. 493 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 10: Very good year for Democrats, and you can hear sort 494 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 10: of the enthusiasm in the congresswoman's discussion with you guys 495 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 10: that they're feeling the excitement, if you will, and thank you, 496 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 10: because I love a good election story. 497 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 5: As you know, Kayley, Well remember the shellacking I think 498 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 5: that was twenty ten when Barack Obama lost I believe 499 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 5: more than sixty seats. Rick, It's hard to imagine a 500 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 5: turn of fortune on that level. Do you buy the 501 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 5: math as Kaylee is asking, and do you think we'll 502 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 5: see a third revision from the D Triple C? 503 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 11: I definitely think you could see a third revision by 504 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 11: the D Triple C. Look forget all the issues, right, Genies, Right, 505 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 11: those are the issues people are going to campaign on. 506 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 11: But this is what I really watch. First of all, 507 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 11: the cyclical nature of the midterms. They're always against the 508 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 11: party in power, always, and so you know that Trump's 509 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 11: going to have a hard time holding the House just 510 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 11: because it's a midterm election. Two, redistricting is now ignuring, 511 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 11: potentially to the benefit of the Democrats because part of 512 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 11: the other cyclical nature of this is that, because of realignment, 513 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 11: a lot of our voters aren't the type that vote 514 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 11: in midterms or special elections. As Genie pointed out, Democrats 515 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 11: want every special election statewide since Donald Trump became president. 516 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 11: Why because mostly Republicans don't show up for these kinds 517 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 11: of votes. So when you start looking at that, you say, well, 518 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 11: these five you know redistricts. Look congressional districts in Texas 519 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 11: where we took safe Republican seats and made them less 520 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 11: safe so that we could make more of them. Actually 521 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 11: may have resulted in actually making more saints less potentially successful. 522 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,479 Speaker 11: And so you know, if you look at Donald Trump, 523 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 11: you know, and in the districts we've seen he you know, 524 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 11: when you see over fifteen percent of Donald Trump, you know, 525 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 11: one in twenty twenty four are losing, then you say, well, 526 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 11: how many. 527 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 8: Districts are plus Donald Trump? 528 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 11: You know, by fifteen percent, it's about forty six districts. 529 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 8: Well, that's what the target is. Sounds like the math 530 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 8: is mathing. 531 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 5: I'm glad we had this opportunity with Rick Davis and 532 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 5: Jeanie Shanzano. We'll stay in touch if there is a 533 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 5: third revision. Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll 534 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 5: have much more coming up after this. 535 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 536 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 537 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 538 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 539 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 540 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 5: Thank you for joining us here on the Tuesday edition 541 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 5: of Balance of Power. 542 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 8: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. 543 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 5: As we stare down the barrel of another partial government 544 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 5: shut down only four days away. No one's getting along. 545 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 5: We just spent ten minutes talking to Tyler Kendall about 546 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 5: two big scandals brewing in Washington. You can add the 547 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 5: brutal winter weather, and yes, you might feel like you 548 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 5: have seasonal depression. Gallup sees it differently out with new 549 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 5: numbers today that make us question our mindset and our 550 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 5: politics in America. And we're going to talk to the 551 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 5: great Llewellen King about this in a moment. Consider these numbers. 552 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 5: The percentage of American adults who anticipate high quality lives 553 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 5: in the next five years, and if you're running for 554 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 5: reelection right now, you might want to listen. It fell 555 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty five to just over fifty nine percent. 556 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 5: That is the lowest level since measurement began nearly two 557 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 5: decades ago. Gallup says since twenty twenty, future life ratings 558 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 5: have fallen a total of nine percentage points, projecting to 559 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 5: an estimated twenty four million fewer people who are optimistic 560 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 5: about the future now versus then. 561 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 8: Just in twenty twenty. 562 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 5: Of course, that was before the whole pandemic thing happened. Americans' 563 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 5: ratings of their current lives also declining since rebounding in 564 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 5: twenty one, but not as deeply as their future life ratings. 565 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 5: We're losing faith in our future. And that's where we 566 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 5: start our conversation with the great syndicated columnist, an old 567 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 5: friend of mine, the host of White House Chronicle, and 568 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 5: someone we used to call our in house on Budsman 569 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 5: when we work together. Llewellyn King. Welcome to Bloomberg. It's 570 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 5: great to see you. 571 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 13: It's lovely to be with you, Joe. 572 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 5: It's always a pleasure when you're in the nation's capital. 573 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 5: We're better for it. And I'm wondering how you rationalize 574 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 5: this if this is a political story, a cultural one, 575 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 5: or if we don't separate it to any all of 576 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 5: the above. 577 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 13: We're in a seminal time and if you take ceneral 578 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 13: to mean what I mean, which is nothing will be 579 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 13: the same again, permanent change. You've got political change, you've 580 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 13: got cultural change, but most importantly you've got technological change. 581 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 13: People do not feel secure about the future because they 582 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 13: don't know what it will be and insecurity will produce 583 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 13: this kind of sense of lack of confidence that the 584 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 13: public has, and it's often, as it is at the moment, 585 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 13: at odds with the reality. I mean, people are not 586 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 13: badly off of the moment financially, but the sense that 587 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 13: it won't go on, that the future will not be 588 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 13: as the past, the trajectory will not be all ever up. 589 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 13: You know, I grew up in a generation where I 590 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 13: was expected and it turned out to do better than 591 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 13: my parents, and we all did. 592 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 8: We were all in this ascent. 593 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 13: Well, the assent is less certain and the big uncertainty, 594 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 13: which I think is underestimated and has certainly been ignored 595 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,479 Speaker 13: by the political class. And I say that advisedly the 596 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 13: political class has been AI artificial intelligence. This is causing 597 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 13: the whole future to be uncertain, out of kilter. 598 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 8: We know that the things that we used to. 599 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 13: Be able to rely on, a certain type of employment, 600 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 13: particularly white collar employment, is not going to be as certain. 601 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 5: What does that say that about President Trump's golden age 602 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 5: that embraces AI, that embraces crypto, and embraces a whole 603 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 5: different level of rhetoric. At the same time, shouldn't people 604 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 5: feel optimistic when they're. 605 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 13: Think that's just what you said. It's rhetoric, it has 606 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 13: no basis. In fact, it has no depth of analysis, 607 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 13: and there's no data behind it. It's a hopeful expectation. 608 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 13: It's a political claim that is without foundation. We don't 609 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,239 Speaker 13: know how this will work out, and it is in 610 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 13: my view, very possible that we're taking the wrong actions 611 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 13: to deal with the future. For example, with artificial intelligence, 612 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 13: we are not as a people looking at it its 613 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 13: impact but also how to use it. We're in the 614 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 13: sense that we're in a race with the Chinese for it, 615 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 13: which is the wrong way in my view to look 616 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 13: at it. You've got to look at it as inevitable 617 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 13: and how we're going to use it. At the moment 618 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 13: with artificial intelligence, we're looking at it as though we've 619 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 13: got to get our arms around the whole enormous thing. 620 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 13: In reality, we only have to get our arms around 621 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 13: a little bit of it, really, a bit that applies 622 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 13: to ourselves. Take the internal combustion engine. When that arrived. 623 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 13: If you said, oh, they're going to be tractors, they're 624 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 13: going to be trucks, they're going to be cause textis 625 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 13: I've got to get my arms around all that with. 626 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 13: All you need is get your arms around your Toyota Camry. 627 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 13: You don't need everything. And I think we're going to 628 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 13: see a really a change in expectations. Corporations are going 629 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 13: to have to decide how they're going to use it 630 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 13: and how much of it because when you go hold 631 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 13: hog into AI, you also expose yourself. Your proprietary data 632 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 13: is no longer proprietary, your phone numbers no longer A couple. 633 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 8: Of year old columns are probably in these that's not 634 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 8: even a joke. 635 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 13: So in the future, we're going to be much more cautious, 636 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 13: and we're going to be much more concerned about the 637 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 13: veracity of information. 638 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 8: And there will be a. 639 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 13: New level of use, user and usage of AI which 640 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 13: is less all encompassing. But that does not mean that 641 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 13: we can predict a solid and worthwhile future from it. 642 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 13: I think we'll get it, but we don't know that. 643 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 8: There's a lot there. 644 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 5: I want to ask you about what you just said, 645 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 5: veracity of information, and then I want to ask you 646 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 5: about the energy component of this, because that's where we 647 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 5: go to ground for something very real and is a 648 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 5: matter of expertise for you. Veracity of information. When the 649 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 5: president of the United States is posting AI videos that 650 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 5: you cannot tell if they're real or not. 651 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 8: Does what to the American psyche? 652 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 13: It undermines us. It undermines our confidence, It undermines our certainty, 653 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 13: and it's who cares attitude is developed. If the president 654 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 13: can do it, I can do it. It's very very 655 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 13: damaging to a society not to venerate truth. 656 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 5: How about when somebody goes on Facebook and they can't 657 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 5: tell it doesn't We'll take the president out of this. 658 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 5: The fact that they can't tell what's real. I have 659 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 5: people send me stories on a semi regular basis saying 660 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 5: is this true? 661 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 8: Where does that leave us? I think it. 662 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 13: Leaves us with an opening to create something in technology 663 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 13: which will be able to establish the veracity the history 664 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 13: of exactly. And it hasn't happened yet. The thing to 665 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 13: remember about technology is it tends to fix its own 666 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 13: problems in time, or we get it to fix its 667 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 13: own problems. It doesn't actually do it by itself. Well, 668 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 13: this is true. The great question about AI is will 669 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 13: it be already? They're saying that it is contemplative. I wonder, 670 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 13: as we have fited on all Western civilization, whether this 671 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 13: isn't now going to be part Western civilization is full 672 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 13: of morals standards. We don't keep to them, but they're there, 673 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 13: and will AI suddenly start actually thinking about the moral 674 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 13: content of something. But we're not there yet. We're worried 675 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 13: about that, and we're worried about quantum computing. We're standing 676 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 13: at the frontier of an entirely different world, and it 677 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 13: would be very surprising if we were terribly confident about it, 678 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 13: and probably be very dangerously we were. So we're going 679 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 13: to go as best we can into this new word. 680 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 13: But take the application of artificial intelligence in a corporation, 681 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 13: corporations things. Should we do this down on the shop floor? 682 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 13: Everybody's using it, so you've got a different situation. You've 683 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 13: got hesitance at the top and enthusiasm at the bottom, 684 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 13: and not everybody is scared of it. We took my 685 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 13: little television program, White House Chronicle over to a conference 686 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 13: in Spain recently where there were a lot of young 687 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 13: people not dominated by Asians, which is usually the AI world. 688 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 13: If I go to MIT, there are an awful lot 689 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 13: of people from India, Pakistan, China, et cetera. You couldn't 690 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 13: tell because obviously the facial characteristics and they're very gifted people. 691 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 8: But this was people who use. 692 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 13: AI in our culture, and it was built and they 693 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 13: were all preoccupied with creativity, advertisements, designing shoes, clothes, making artworks, 694 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 13: and they were very excited about AI A they had 695 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 13: solid employment from it and making good money, and they 696 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 13: were at the frontier, and the frontier was working for them. 697 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 5: Well, there are evangelists everywhere in Washington as well, and 698 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 5: many of them have been on this program, and when 699 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 5: you listen to them talk, it's a beautiful story. For 700 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 5: many people, though their only interaction with AI has been 701 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 5: a data center that screwed up their view looking out 702 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 5: the back of the house, and it jacked up their 703 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 5: electricity prices. Well, President says big tech ought to pay 704 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 5: for it, and that there's going to be a new 705 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 5: approach to the grid. 706 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 8: You've been writing about the grid and. 707 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 5: Energy demand in this country since anyone ever thought of 708 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 5: a data center. 709 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 8: Can this administration solve this? 710 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 13: No technology will solve it, and that is we're not 711 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 13: going to be on a trajectory that gives the you know, 712 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 13: like a graph line going up off the payper more electricity. 713 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 13: Fifty percent of the world's electric generation is going to 714 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 13: data so it isn't going to happen. What's going to 715 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 13: happen is there will be improvements a in the technology 716 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 13: the data center and quite possibly something very radical. For example, 717 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 13: if we had a photon chip where we use light 718 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 13: instead of electricity, and the Japanese in particular are working 719 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 13: on this, you wouldn't need the electricity already. That would 720 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 13: you seeing the demand by cooling with water, not with 721 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 13: the hout. But think of some other shortage. I think 722 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 13: of natural rubber long haim in the automobile. We needed rubber. 723 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 13: You would think the whole world will be put down 724 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 13: to rubber plantation, but it wasn't. We created synthetic rubber. 725 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 13: And so you know, at one time the Amazon was 726 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 13: the hot new possibility place. That was the front here. 727 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 13: There was a wonderful opera house on the Amazon. It 728 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 13: was so prosperous growing rubber trees, well rubber, and we 729 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 13: got a solution. 730 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 5: Maybe someday that's what they'll be saying about Abilene, Texas. 731 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 8: In the data center. 732 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 13: Well, I think we may live long enough. Of course, 733 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 13: certainly you will live long enough to see the data 734 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 13: centers looking for some other mission. 735 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 8: Interesting Can we do this again sometime? And it's great. 736 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 5: Llewell and King fight them online, Riada's column syndicated columnists, 737 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 5: White House Chronicle. 738 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 8: It's great to see you. 739 00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 5: Thanks for joining us, Thanks for listening to the Balance 740 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 5: of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 741 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 5: at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and 742 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 5: you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC 743 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 5: at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.