WEBVTT - Part One: The Man Who Ruined New York 0:00:02.000 --> 0:00:10.879 Oh boy, podcasts, which one is this? Robert now, Sophie. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.560 Scholars have debated for years how to tell what podcast 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.720 you're introducing when you're introducing your podcast. Um, and I 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.280 think I hold with Robert Sapolski of Stanford University when 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.200 he said it is impossible to know the name or 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:31.840 the hour of the podcast that you host, Sophie. This 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.760 is Behind the Bastards. Our guests day is the lovely 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.760 Bridget Todd. Hi, Bridget, Hello, I'm so happy to be 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:41.760 here with y'all. I'm happy to have you here. How 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.400 are you doing today, Bridget? I am doing well. I 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.560 am in d C, where it is hot as balls. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.120 It's like still winter here basically, so it's like sixty 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.800 and rainy, which is dope. But I remember you and 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:56.560 I met in DC when it was hot as balls. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:01.480 That's right, the swamp as they say, it's hot as 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.560 balls in Los Angeles to it too, So yeah, it's 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.400 hot as balls everywhere, but where I am. And now, Bridget, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.880 you're an East Coast girl, that's right, born in Bread 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.120 Uh huh, that's now. How do you? How do you? 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:15.720 How do you? How do you? How do you like 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:21.679 the Big Apple? The New the New of York's. Oh 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.039 I love New York. I lived there for two years. Um, 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.559 I loved it. I'm I'm a I'm an East Coast girl, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.920 saffy mouth, you know, yelling in traffic, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.679 I'm walking here, that kind of stuff. Well, the most 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.839 famous thing about New York culture is that scene where 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.560 what's his name is that? That's not the nero, is it? Um? 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.440 I want to say Dustin Hoffman. It's Dustin Hoffman from 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.800 Midnight Cowboy, right, where he's like walking across the street 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:50.560 with the other guy and like that dude nearly hits him. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.240 He's like, I'm walking here. Well, that's a famous New 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.520 York moment. It's the thing everybody jokes about when they 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:57.680 pretend to be a New Yorker, And of course it 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.520 is a moment. What's what's depicted in that seen is 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.280 a man having an aggressive interaction with someone in a car. Right. 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.880 Because New York has famously heinous traffic problems. Um, not 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.680 quite Los Angeles bad, although the parking is worse than 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.480 it is in l A. Um, but pretty bad traffic. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.120 And today we're going to talk about the guy who's 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.200 responsible for that, Bridget. Have you ever heard of Robert Moses? 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.880 I have not. Oh Bobby Mose. Yeah, this is um. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:27.520 This guy is important if you're not if you've never 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.000 been to New York is um. The the lingering impacts 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:35.720 of the things that he did are like almost incomprehensibly Titanic. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.160 But he is also known as the man who built 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.800 New York City. UM. Like all, a huge number of 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.680 the landmarks that are most famous about that town UM 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.839 were the result of this guy's direct work and spoilers. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:54.800 He was a gigantic racist with a weird car fetish. Yeah. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.120 I guess it wouldn't be bastards if it was like, Oh, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:01.520 he was a really nice guy. You like to cook 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.200 like salads for people in hand them out. This is 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.920 just a podcast about a guy who made salads for free, Bridget. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.160 I feel like they were all right, Bridget, we should 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.519 have done uh this before we did cool people who 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.800 did cool stuff with Margaret Kildrey, so you could have 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.160 the proper cleans for for What's interesting is, for a 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.240 long time people called this guy a cool person who 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.440 had done cool stuff, and notably the folks who did 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.040 were rich white people like I guess he was a 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.280 cool person depending on who you ask for some perhaps 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:33.720 he was cool in that way that like if you 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.880 have a movie and you have like the bad guy, 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.240 who's this like figure in government who's incredibly good at 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.120 like wielding power and like carrying out like you could 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.440 have made a good house of cards, Like uh, Netflix 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.240 series about how good this guy was it like um running, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:52.840 like pulling the levers of government. Like, I guess he's 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.360 cool in that regard, But he is part of the 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.200 reason why we're all going to choke to death on 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.880 exhaust fumes. So that part, I would say is probably bad. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:03.880 Bridget how do you feel about choking to death on 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.640 exhaust fumes? I don't love it. I don't love it. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.000 Not not pro choking. Okay, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.400 put I I keep a little keep a little tally 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.200 by the desk of people who want to choke to 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.680 death on exhaust fumes. So I'm gonna mark you a no. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.239 Which is the first big disagreement you and Jamie Loftus 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.520 have had. Oh she's she's like, Oh, she's a huge 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.479 fan of choking on exhaust huge That's why she spent 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:29.520 so much time in Florida. Recently, the Ghost Church podcast 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:31.360 was just to cover listen to Ghost Church now on 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.760 the Heart Radio network. Okay, we should talk about Robert Moses. 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.960 What's Sophie? Come on, you're gonna plug it it. Please 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.279 plug the network it's on, which is ours, which is 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.000 called cool Zone Media. And that doesn't sound like us, really, 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.640 that doesn't sound like us. So bridget Bobby Moses. Robert 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.640 Moses Arms. Rob Mose was born in New Haven, Connecticut, 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:01.920 on December eighteen eight His father, Emmanuel was descended from 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.320 Spanish Jewish immigrants, His mother, Isabella, was German Jewish, and 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.720 her father, Bernard Cohen, was a wealthy New York businessman. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.080 For nine years, he and his parents lived in Connecticut, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.919 just a couple of blocks from Yale Um. And based 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.400 on the fact that they lived next door to to Yale, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.440 you will not be surprised to hear they were comfortable 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.760 and quite affluent, right, Like, not a lot of poor 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.719 kids grow up in the shadow of Yale University. Yeah, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.200 I mean the Yale is a dead giveaway that you've 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.240 got some money. Yeah. No, it was a rough neighborhood. 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.080 Skull and bones. Guys robbed us every night beat us 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:43.279 with diplomas. Um. Yeah, so he grows up next to 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.080 Yale UM and his dad the family business that his 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.520 dad isn't. His dad owns a department store and is 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.080 also a real estate speculator in Connecticut. UM. And he 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.000 was successful enough at these endeavors that in eighteen ninety 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.920 seven he sold his business, he sold his real estate holdings, 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.560 and he retired. He retires like pretty, he's not a 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.640 he's not a he's like kind of early middle age 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.440 when he does this. Um. And the reason he retires 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.920 is that his wife's father, Robert Moses, is m Grandpa 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.400 Bernard had died that year and he had willed his 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.919 daughter and her family his mansion in New York City. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:20.400 So Robert Moses, his dad retires because their grandpa died 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.359 and left them a mansion. So they're like, well, we 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.040 have all this cash and now we have a mansion. 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.120 Why are we We don't need to really do anything else, 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.040 you know. So they moved to the mansion in New 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.719 York City and they've become fancy New York socialite people. Right, 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.400 So pretty easy run of it, you would say at 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.200 this stage. Yeah, just being given mansion's sounds sounds pretty sweet. Yes, 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.160 he has the upbringing of like of a of a 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.720 teenage girl and like a Hallmark Original movie. Um, where 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.320 it's like, oh, we have this surprise family mansion. Now 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.159 we're going to live in New York and be sudden socialites. Yeah. Um, 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.440 that's very much his background. Yeah, it's giving like what's 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:02.120 that Adam Sandler movie where he becomes wealthy? Um? Mr Deeds, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.599 Like a little bit of Mr. Deeds. It's a Mr. Deeds, 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.640 but we all wish it was a Billy Madison. Um. 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.960 So here his mom like, well, now that they're in 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.520 New York, their fancy socialite people, you know, they're they're 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.400 they're living it up, drinking tea with like all of 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.440 their fingers extended, all that that fancy ship. His mom 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.440 gets involved in what's called the settlement house movement. Now again, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.400 they are rich, but they are they are the kind 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.120 of descendants of some of the first Jewish people to 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.520 come to the United States and given like again because 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.960 they have money, like a lot of their their ancestors 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.200 are some of the first Jewish folks who immigrate out 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.920 of Europe and into the Northeast. Um. Their ancestors are 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.520 doing pretty well. But obviously by the eighteen nineties, most 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.320 of the Jews who are coming to the United States 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.880 are not people with money. Right. If you remember your 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.160 history and you think about why a lot of Jewish 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.160 people are fleeing to New York in the eighteen nineties, 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.000 think back to our episodes on the Czars. They are 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:04.520 having trouble, right, Um. So these are are mainly immigrants 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.640 from like Eastern Europe, from Slavic countries, um. And they're 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.000 seen by so the kind of established Jewish community in 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.440 New York at this time is primarily German Jewish, and 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.760 a lot of them are are are kind of upper class, 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.200 and so they have deep sympathy for their Eastern European 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.640 co religionists, but they also are kind of bigoted against them, 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.760 right because number one, Slavs are are Again, this is 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.280 the attitude of like rich German's kind of unkimpt and 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.280 like dirty and stuff, right, Like they're poor, you know, um, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.680 And they come from this like less civilized part of 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.800 Europe and the attitudes of these people and also a 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.920 lot of them are dangerously socialist, right. A lot of 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.720 like Jewish refugees in the eighteen nineties have left wing leanings. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.080 And again, these the established Jewish community in New York, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.200 like a lot of them have money, right, Like Robert 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.240 Moses family and their mansion are not socialists, you know, 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.120 I wouldn't be very surprised if they were. So there's 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.160 this there's this x of things and some of its 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.240 self preservation, right because people like Bella Moses, who's who's 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.239 Robert's mom um and other kind of wealthy um diaspora 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.800 Jews in the United States both are like, well, we 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.120 don't like this socialism, and we're not really fans of 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.679 a lot of these people's like Slavic customs. But also, um, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.960 it's potentially dangerous if Jewish people in the United States 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.280 develop a reputation for being like left wing radicals, because 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:27.079 that ship has been very dangerous for Jewish people in Europe. Right. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.360 So there's this decision among kind of the great and 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.200 good in the Jewish community that like, we need to 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:37.200 Americanize these folks fucking asap. Right. Um. So settlement houses 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.080 provide new immigrants with a place to live, um, where 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.000 they can learn English and like American customs like not 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.840 talking about socialists and reunionizing in your workplace, right, Um, 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:48.960 so these settlement houses are in a lot always very 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.599 positive things. These people are desperate refugees coming to the 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.880 United States. They need shelter, they need food, they need 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.280 job opportunities, clothing, all that kind of stuff, and the 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.360 settlement houses provide that. But they're also deeply paternal a stick, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.200 as this quote from a write up by the by 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.280 Virginia Commonwealth University makes clear. Quote Underneath the giving of 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.600 money in time was an assumption that the givers knew 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.480 what was best for the recipients. The recipients did not 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.760 always appear grateful. Some have been leaders in their own 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.880 Jewish communities, some were educated, some were professionals, and some 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.880 have been political activists. But almost everyone had pride and 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.719 could sense when they were being patronized. So you get 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.760 what's kind of like, there's some yeah, this is this 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.400 is what Bob Moses family is involved, and they're the 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.600 ones doing the patronizing. Yeah, it's interesting that So that 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.880 that bit that you just read also shout out to 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.600 VC you. My parents both thought there, Um, yeah, it's 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.400 interesting to me that like they knew, they know when 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.520 they're being patronized. It I feel like we often pathologize 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.200 people of like, oh, like they don't really know what's 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.160 going on, Like you can just say whatever, But like 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.400 I really like that point that like, oh, they knew 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.280 what time it was, they knew, you know, what the 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.040 vibe wasn't how they were being treated. Yeah, they're aware 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.080 of what's going on, but it's also like, what are 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:00.679 you gonna do turn down the free food in the 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.679 place to stay? Like it's hard landing in America with 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.200 nothing but the clothes on your back. You know, you 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.400 need something. And so this is the community the people 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.840 who are again doing the patronizing. That's where young Bob 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.840 Moses grows up as this rich kid watching his mom 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.240 and she's fundraising, she's setting up these facilities where like 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.960 rich people plot out life paths for poor people. Um. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.600 And he and his brother Paul attend several fancy private 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.000 schools in a military school. You know, they have kind 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.240 of the most privileged upbringing you can within this community. Uh. 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.360 And in nineteen o five, at age seventeen, Robert Moses 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:39.800 starts classes at Yale. So again doing great. Um, how 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.120 do you think he got in? You think he no? No, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.120 he's His test scores were just like good as hell. No, no, 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:52.079 I think it was Aunt Becky from Full House. Oh yeah, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.520 I mean no, these people. I think these guys have 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.640 the money that you don't need to Aunt Becky. It right, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.679 like you've got the family. Now that said, we are 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.520 going to talk about it. It's actually not there's a 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.800 little bit because again he is Jewish, right, which is 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.880 a a you are not really white as a Jewish 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.600 person in in fucking nineteen oh five, you know, like 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.960 that has not come around yet. So he he's moderately athletic. Uh, 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.600 he's he's a good competitor. He's he's a runner, he's 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.920 a swimmer. Um. And he also from an early age 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.640 takes on his mom's activism bent but of course since 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.880 he's a Yale kid, his activism is like rich kid activism. 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.439 So like the first thing he organizes is a fight 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.160 to take some of the money budgeted for the school's 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.280 football program and diverted to what we're called minor sports, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.600 which in the US was everything but football. Um, so 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.760 that's like his first piece of like community organizing. But 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.640 I like, I know, I feel like I know so 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.320 much about him just having having that information that that 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.040 was his forming into organizing of like, we need to 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:54.480 be funding lacrosse and squash and other sports too. He's 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:55.960 the kind of guy where if you'd like met him 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.120 a couple of decades later at a party and been like, oh, yeah, 0:12:58.120 --> 0:12:59.880 I've been organizing a food bank, he'd be like, yes, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.480 I have community organizing experience too. Let me tell you 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.320 about the squash team we funded. You did not have 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.000 a British accent, but I can't, like, if you're doing posh, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.400 you just have to go English. So yeah, he's a 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.680 He's a good student. He wins awards for his performance 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.520 in Latin mathematics, public speaking. He writes for The Current, 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:23.120 which is their newspaper. He edits a volume of poetry. Um. Now, 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.120 obviously he's doing just fine. Right, This is not a 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.640 kid who is struggling tremendously in his early life. Um. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.120 But again he's he is Jewish in this period, which 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.319 means he's not insulated entirely from how fucking racist upper 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.640 class society is. One of my sources for his early 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.280 life is an article in the Atlantic from nineteen thirty nine. Uh. 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.160 It extremely tactfully notes, because it's not it's ninety nine, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.360 the Atlantic doesn't view racism as bad. Um it notes 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.280 quote a non fraternity man could hardly get further at Yale. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.080 So it's basically saying like he did as good as 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.720 a man with not in a fraternity could do in Yale. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.240 And you may be wondering, I wasn't he a fraternity 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.680 man because he's again very wealthy, well, because he's Jewish, 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.440 and jewishman in nineteen oh five were not allowed to 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.560 be in fraternities at Yale. Right, you could attend, but 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.480 you could not. It's it's the same way that like, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.960 up until pretty recently, there were quite a few there's 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.640 probably still are, like country clubs and golf courses that 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.640 like wouldn't let Jewish people in, you know. Um, So 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.920 while there had been Jewish people at Yale um since 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.000 the seventeen hundreds, they kept an official cap on Jewish 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.800 admission to the school, like they had a maximum number 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.960 of Jewish people who are allowed to attend. And I 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:35.680 want to quote now from a New York Times article 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.040 written in nineteen eight six. Not until the early nineteen 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.440 sixties did Yale at University in an informal admissions policy 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.480 that restricted Jewish enrollment to about ten percent. I did 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:52.720 not know that sixties. I mean, and obviously there's their 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.040 racist In other ways, Jewish people are not the most 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.440 discriminated group of folks at Yale. But like they kept 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.240 that ship going until the sixty as much later than 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.520 I would have assumed officially on the books, right, Like 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.000 it's an in for like they don't have a law 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.040 by law, But there was a book published by the 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.880 Yale University players being like, yeah, we found based on 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.640 like letters between people running the school that like, yeah, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.240 they didn't allow more than ten percent of the classes 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:21.760 to be Jewish for up until the sixties. Um, it's 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.760 pretty pretty cool. Um. I found a book Joining the Club, 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.320 which began as a sophomore term paper by guy named 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.960 Dan A. Oran who's the nineteen seventy nine Yale grad um, 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.720 that documents anti semitism reaching from fraternity brothers to board 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.520 trustees at Yale. A lot of the unit of the 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.800 research is based on university documents. Um. And uh quote 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.120 here from again from that right up uh in um 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.720 the New York Times. One document, a folder now in 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.200 the university archives labeled Jewish Problems, contains a memo from 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.760 the admissions chairman of NINETO urging limits on the alien 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.400 and unwashed element. The next year, the Admissions Commission acted 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.200 the Limitation of Numbers policy, and informal quota Jewish enrollment 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.720 was held to about ten for four decades. So part 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.080 of what's happening here, he's allowed in again because he 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.360 is not seen as he's not seen as like a 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.520 fully a white person, but he's not seen as because 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.040 he's rich fully Jewish. Right. The thing they're trying to 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:22.680 keep out is Jewish people from Eastern Europe is like slabs, right, um. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.640 And that's that's like the the alien and unwashed element 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.560 again ninety two. That's how Yale is describing these kits. Altho. 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.120 I love that the text is called Jewish Problems. Oh yes, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.680 like just to be real explicit, real clear. At least 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:42.720 they didn't call it the Jewish Question, right, um, but 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.000 not that far off right. So that's that's the world. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.920 Our boy Robbie comes up and he's simultaneously on the 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.480 very top of the social hierarchy in New York City. Right, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.320 you don't get a lot more privileged than he is, um, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.080 And he and his family you could almost look at 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.360 them as kind of like feudal lords in respect to 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.240 a lot of poor immigrant Jews, right, who are kind 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.200 of dependent on their large s um. And so he's 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.760 able to exist in the rarefied levels of white Christian society. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.199 But he's also permanently uthered from it, right, He's not 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.159 fully accepted in it either. This is an interesting like 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.840 way to grow up. And you might think, because he 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.320 couldn't not be aware of the injustices of the era, 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.639 that he would be extra sympathetic to other people struggling 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:27.360 against bigotry. That you might think that that's not how 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.960 it goes down um, But we're building to that. So 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.320 after Yale Um, he goes to Oxford Um, where The 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.040 Atlantic recalls this occurrence in his early background. A terrific 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.159 outspokenness which never counts the odds against him, appeared in 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.320 one Oxford experience when he was selected to represent his 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.960 college at a World Congress on racial problems. His frankness 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.600 so infuriated some of the intense nationalist groups that once 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:53.680 he had to free from the platform and escape through 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.000 a rear exit. One of the delegates and an assistant 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.159 to the Cadive of Egypt, was so impressed that he 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.000 offered Moses a position as secretary to the cadive. Moses declined, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.600 but later he had a classmate visited Egypt to study 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.920 what was being done under Kitchener and developed a profound 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:13.040 admiration for British colonial administration. So that carries a shiploaded ground. Right, 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.800 He's going to this like congress thing at Oxford and 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.200 talking about racism probably you have to assume racism against 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.359 like Jewish people, because it's the period of time that 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.320 it is um And he gets chased away by by fascists, right, 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.960 he gets chased off states by fascists for talking about 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.280 how racism is bad. And then he impresses the government 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.800 of Egypt, which at this point is like the British Empire, 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.240 and he goes and he's like, boy, these British sure 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.680 know how to govern a multiracial society fairly, Like that's 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.400 an incredible degree of like ship to cover, right, Wow, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.719 I mean it really is interesting. How like if I 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.320 didn't know where this was going, I would think, like, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.720 this is gonna turn out to be somebody who like, 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.280 is this like great leftist person who you know understands 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.960 why being you know, actively anti racist is a good thing. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:00.399 And it's so interesting how it's like no part pivot. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.119 Actually it is a hard and it's interesting because he 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.440 clearly sees the problems of nationalism and racism. But also 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:09.959 we're going to talk about this more in a second. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.520 He he looks at the government of Egypt under the 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.480 British and he's like, this is how you run a 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:21.760 multiracial society. So he's he's he's only looking at it. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.000 He's looking at the problems of race and is able 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.560 to see them as far as they affect people like him, 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.040 who are like upper class but kept out of the 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.640 highest level of the upper class because of an accident 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.960 of birth. But he's not able to see it anywhere 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:35.840 below that level. Right, that's going to be the guy 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.919 Bobby Moses grows up into. But first, bridget you know 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.800 who does see the problems of racism? Who the products 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:48.639 and services that support this podcast. That's why on violand 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.080 where you can hunt children, they don't see race. They 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.920 don't see race at all. They kidnapped kids from every continent, um, 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:00.399 from every from every financial group. You know, if if 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.560 you're a child, you might wind up child hunting island, 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.320 and it doesn't matter what your background is. You know, 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.439 that's the beauty of Bridget. This is a master This 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.960 was a masterful Thank you, thank you. Sophie says that 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:17.439 all the time, but I appreciate the additional support. She 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:21.320 loves it. It's your favorite bit. She's so because you 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.959 have then you love it. It's because I have to 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.760 make edit notes for editor to bleep the name. It's 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.880 very funny, and people people keep being like, people think 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.880 he's being real. They should do It's so funny. I'm 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:46.240 never gonna stop anyway, here's oh we're back now, Bridget. 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:48.960 If you were going to eat a kid, right, oh 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.120 my god, what do you the ribs right, like that's 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.600 where the softest meat is going to be, I would say, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.000 so this just I just finished watching that show on 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.040 Netflix alone and it turned into a conversation. If I 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.600 had to eat somebody, how would I go about it? 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.679 I think ribs, I think some some some kind of 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.840 like fatty cut of meat, so like thighs, butt area, 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.119 because you're gonna want to have a lot of a 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.240 lot of fattiness. Anya, you'd want to slow cook it. Um. 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.760 I ate I kind of ate people. Once. I ate 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:18.920 a fish that had just been eating human corpses, and 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.400 it was pretty good. But that's as close as I've gotten. 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.639 I haven't just like having straight what Sophie, how are 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.760