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Speaker 1: In two thousand and four, Tala Lalay Edwards, a young

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Speaker 1: father and husband living in Anchorage, Alaska, was accused of

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Speaker 1: killing a one year old child who was in his care.

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Speaker 1: TJ was adamant he was innocent. He loved children and

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Speaker 1: was known to be a great father to his own sons.

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Speaker 2: They couldn't bring one person on my behalf. They ever

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Speaker 2: say that they saw me the violent, a violent guy

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Speaker 2: and would do something to a kid. They even took

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Speaker 2: my two boys from me when this happened.

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Speaker 1: When he went to trial, he was sure the jury

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Speaker 1: would see the truth that he wouldn't hurt anyone, let

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Speaker 1: alone a child.

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Speaker 2: When they said guilty, I was shocked. And what made

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Speaker 2: it real for me was my mom. She started building

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Speaker 2: out crying and I looked back at her scene or

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Speaker 2: just like getting weak and just everybody's trying to pick

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Speaker 2: her up. I hate re live in that memory that

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Speaker 2: was mme. I was trying to erase, but it's stuck

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Speaker 2: in there. My name is Talala lay Edwards Jr. Everybody

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Speaker 2: knows me as TJ. I was in cars ready for

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Speaker 2: fourteen years for something I didn't commit, and I'm here

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Speaker 2: to tell my story.

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Speaker 1: From lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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Speaker 1: Freeling today.

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Speaker 3: Tala L.

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Speaker 1: Lay Edwards Tala L. Lay Edwards Junior, known as TJ,

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Speaker 1: was born in the Samoan Islands on April seventeenth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one, to Salome and Edward Senor.

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Speaker 2: We are from the Islands of Samoa. Mom was born

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Speaker 2: in western Samore and my dad was from American some Moore.

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Speaker 2: For a while, there has just been me and my brother, Richard,

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Speaker 2: who is a year younger than me, before everybody else came,

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Speaker 2: and it was probably like a five or six year

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Speaker 2: gap between the next set of like it was. My

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Speaker 2: two sisters came after me.

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Speaker 1: And Richard, eventually adding up to nine kids in total.

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Speaker 1: Although the family lived in California briefly when TJ was young,

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Speaker 1: they soon went back to the Samoan Islands.

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Speaker 2: My dad took us back to the islands so we

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Speaker 2: can learn the culture, the language we speak, and just

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Speaker 2: learn everything about the Samoan culture. And so we stayed

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Speaker 2: there for about four or five years before moving back

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Speaker 2: to California, where the rest of my siblings were born.

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Speaker 4: He is like a best friend to me.

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Speaker 1: This is TJ's sister Salome, who's named after the mother.

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Speaker 1: She's six years younger than TJ.

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Speaker 4: I just remember him always being the one that I

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Speaker 4: looked up to. I wrote a few papers on him

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Speaker 4: in school as like the person that I'm I look

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Speaker 4: up to the most.

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Speaker 1: After their parents divorced in nineteen ninety five, TJ, as

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Speaker 1: the oldest, found his role in the family evolving, so.

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Speaker 2: I kind of had to play their father figure off,

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Speaker 2: like watching over my other younger siblings, helping her my

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Speaker 2: mom with just for life because she was just a

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Speaker 2: stay at home mom before you know, my dad separated.

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Speaker 1: Solme remembers how TJ stepped up for the family at

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Speaker 1: the time. She came to confide in her brother about

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Speaker 1: everything in her life.

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Speaker 4: When I wasn't doing so good in school, I would

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Speaker 4: go to him and ask him for help on homework

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Speaker 4: or just anything that I wanted to talk to him about,

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Speaker 4: even if it was me dating someone. He was very

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Speaker 4: patient and also always created a say space for me

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Speaker 4: to go and talk to him about anything I was

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Speaker 4: going through.

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Speaker 1: TJ was only fourteen at the time and couldn't help

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Speaker 1: out financially. Yet, when expenses became too much for his mom,

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Speaker 1: she packed up a car with whatever they could fit

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Speaker 1: and drove herself and her nine kids from California to Anchorage, Alaska,

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Speaker 1: where she had family. So what is living in Alaska like?

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Speaker 2: Living in Alaska's it's a pretty, you know, slow motion state.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty mellow. At first, I've never seen snow before.

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Speaker 2: So when we came up here, I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: this is nice.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: It was awesome for the first i'd say six months

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Speaker 2: until I was like, all right, I mean I'm done

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Speaker 2: with the coda.

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Speaker 1: But things were still hard for the family.

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Speaker 2: It was a struggle just to live up in Alaska.

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Speaker 2: We were poor growing up, you know, and we didn't

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Speaker 2: have the finance to go get us an apartment, you know,

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Speaker 2: we had to live with my auntie, and then when

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Speaker 2: we moved up here.

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Speaker 1: Despite the hardships, TJ has fond memories of his childhood.

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Speaker 2: Being with my siblings up here, you know, just all

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Speaker 2: of us out there in the snow and kind of

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Speaker 2: like just enjoying each other's company, you know, just us

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Speaker 2: bonding together and being there for each other. Was like

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Speaker 2: that was all to me. All I wanted to do

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Speaker 2: was keep the smile on their faces.

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Speaker 4: We were pretty spoiled because of him.

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Speaker 1: Salome remembers TJ taking his siblings everywhere he went, like

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Speaker 1: sports games and their favorite hangout.

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Speaker 4: We always went to check E Cheese. We went like

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Speaker 4: probably once a week, literally.

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Speaker 1: But life in their part of town was rough.

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Speaker 2: I dropped out of tenth grade because there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of shootings going on, and our family was definitely one

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Speaker 2: of those houses. I was getting shot at because of

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Speaker 2: you know, certain gangs or whatever they call each other

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Speaker 2: clicks up here that were going through some battles back

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Speaker 2: and forth.

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Speaker 1: The gangs and anchorage included Samoan street gangs that sometimes

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Speaker 1: fought with Tongan gangs.

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Speaker 2: And they thought that we were involved in that, me

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Speaker 2: and my siblings, you know, they thought we were involved

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Speaker 2: in any of the gang activities and it wasn't the case.

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Speaker 2: But we were just caughting across fire things and that's

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Speaker 2: what kind of made me and my brothers stepped out

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Speaker 2: of school, like dropped out.

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Speaker 1: TJ says. At the time, there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: racism and anchorage against Polynesians.

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Speaker 2: Polynesians were getting into altercations with the police and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that at that time, and we were definitely being

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Speaker 2: frowned upon as far as growing up here with the

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Speaker 2: law against you know, the poly community back then, and

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Speaker 2: it was difficult to like, you know, call them for

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Speaker 2: any kind of help because as soon as they pull

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Speaker 2: up and find out, oh, there's a poly community or

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Speaker 2: Polynesian family, then they kind of like turn their backs

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Speaker 2: on us or not even give us the help that

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Speaker 2: we needed, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: After TJ dropped out of high school, he went on

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Speaker 1: to receive an education with the Alaska Youth Military Program.

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Speaker 2: It was for kids that they are troubled youth or

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Speaker 2: whatever and that didn't graduate, but they given this chance

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Speaker 2: to either you go over there to military or you know,

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Speaker 2: you be able to get your your diploma that way.

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Speaker 1: At this point, TJ also had a girlfriend, Leona.

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Speaker 2: And when I went into this youth academy program in

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Speaker 2: ninety nine, come to find out that we were expecting

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Speaker 2: the kid later on that year in November, which I

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Speaker 2: had my first son, which is John t Moses Edwards.

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Speaker 2: So we got married August fourteenth, ninety nine, and Johnsy

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Speaker 2: was born in eleven seventeen, nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: TJ was nineteen at the time. He had been considering

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Speaker 1: a career in the military, but becoming a father put

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Speaker 1: a spin on his plans.

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Speaker 2: It was just one of those things that I fell

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Speaker 2: in love with seeing my son being born. I didn't

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Speaker 2: want him to grow up without a father, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, being away, So just me and my

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Speaker 2: siblings growing up without our father. That's what really made

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Speaker 2: me want to stay home with him all the time

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Speaker 2: and didn't want to go nowhere, So I ended up

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Speaker 2: not going to the military.

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Speaker 1: Instead. TJ took on two jobs in Anchorage when at Applebee's,

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Speaker 1: and one is a security guard. He and Leona got

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Speaker 1: their own place. In the spring of two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: TJ and Leona opened their house up to their close

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Speaker 1: friend Melissa and her one year old son, Derek. Derek

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Speaker 1: was TJ and Leona's godson, so they didn't hesitate when

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Speaker 1: Melissa needed a place to live.

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Speaker 2: We didn't want them to be out there in the streets,

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Speaker 2: and I have nowhere to stay, so we had an

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Speaker 2: extra room and absolutely I said sure, why not. She

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Speaker 2: ended up moving in with us, and we started noticinging

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Speaker 2: like a pattern. She loves to go out and have fun.

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Speaker 1: Often leaving Derek in TJ's care, but he was fine

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't mind watching my godson because him

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Speaker 2: and my son are pretty much, you know, the same age.

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Speaker 1: Melissa and Leono worked together, so when TJ wasn't working

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Speaker 1: and the babysitter was unavailable, TJ took care of both

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Speaker 1: Derek and john Te. TJ even got certified as a

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Speaker 1: caregiver and learned CPR and other first aid. One day,

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Speaker 1: while TJ was watching the boys, he noticed a scratch

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Speaker 1: on the back of Derek's head and he mentioned it

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Speaker 1: to Melissa.

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Speaker 2: He was like, hey, have you noticed anything wrong with

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Speaker 2: your son's head? Like, and she was like, oh, She

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Speaker 2: had no idea where the scratch came from.

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Speaker 1: Derek had also been sick for a few days. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't eating and was throwing up a lot. Melissa was

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Speaker 1: already planning to bring him to the doctor.

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Speaker 2: So we tell there's, well, you know, you should probably

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Speaker 2: go and have this looked at, you know, when you

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Speaker 2: go to a doctor. So when you brought Derek back

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Speaker 2: to the house, we asked himself, did you mention anything

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Speaker 2: about their head injury? And she never mentioned it, So

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Speaker 2: we were kind of like stunk, like why not, why

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Speaker 2: didn't you tell the doctor whoever was seeing about you know,

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Speaker 2: that scratch behind his head.

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Speaker 1: A few days later, on the morning of May eighth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, Melissa left Derek with TJ and

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Speaker 1: John Tay while she went to work. Leona had already

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Speaker 1: left the house for the day too. TJ was alone

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Speaker 1: with the boys.

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Speaker 2: She brought him in the room. He was sort of

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Speaker 2: crying a little bit, and then he stopped crying, and

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Speaker 2: then you know, we went downstairs. I started cleaning up

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Speaker 2: the house and everything.

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Speaker 1: But soon TJ noticed Derek wasn't doing well.

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Speaker 2: I noticed him not responding or just breathing period.

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Speaker 1: When TJ picked him up, he saw that Derek's eyes

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Speaker 1: were half open and his fists were clenched. TJ tried

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Speaker 1: blowing air in his face to arouse him, but Derek

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Speaker 1: was not responding.

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Speaker 2: And so I immediately I freaked out. I started doing

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Speaker 2: CPR and him and rushing to the hospital instead of

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Speaker 2: calling nine one.

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Speaker 1: One, because TJ still didn't trust the police.

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Speaker 2: I've had issues with calling any kind of authorities or whatever,

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Speaker 2: so my immediate reaction was to make sure that Derek

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Speaker 2: makes it there alive.

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Speaker 5: Still.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, A leading global insurance

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Speaker 1: company AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to

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Speaker 1: making a positive difference in the lives of its employees

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Speaker 1: and in the communities where they work and live. In

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Speaker 1: light of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance

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Speaker 1: and in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social

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Speaker 1: justice reform, the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal

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Speaker 1: services and other support to underrepresented communities and individuals at

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Speaker 1: the hospital. Once the doctors took Derek, TJ was left

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Speaker 1: alone to process what had just happened.

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Speaker 2: They went back there, and it took forever for them

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Speaker 2: to come tell me what was going on. As lay sir,

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Speaker 2: can you go in the front. You got some some

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Speaker 2: past that wants to talk to you, stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, I'm thinking maybe they'lln't tell me

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Speaker 2: what's going on.

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Speaker 1: But instead one of the detectives started questioning him. TJ

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Speaker 1: told the detective everything he knew. He was just cleaning

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Speaker 1: up the house when he noticed Derek struggling to breathe.

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Speaker 2: He's saying, no, something happened. You shook the baby or something.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, shake the baby, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: You know, and I was kind of dumbfounded about the

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Speaker 2: whole situation, like, why are you accused of me?

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Speaker 1: At eight fifty five that night, Derek was taken off

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Speaker 1: ventilator support and died. Doctors had discovered that Derek's brain

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Speaker 1: was bleeding and swollen, but showed no signs of blunt

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Speaker 1: force trauma. Brain bleeding and swelling, bleeding in the eyes,

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Speaker 1: and little or no evidence of external trauma were known

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Speaker 1: at the time as the triad supposedly telltale signs of

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Speaker 1: SBS or shaken baby syndrome. Experts at the time claimed

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Speaker 1: these injuries had only three known causes, falls from a

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Speaker 1: three story building, high speed motor vehicle crashes, or violent shaking.

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Speaker 1: Because he had been the last adults alone with Derek

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Speaker 1: before his death, TJ immediately became the only suspect.

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Speaker 2: They're you know, the whole time, they were like convinced

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Speaker 2: that I did it that morning, you know, like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: look how big years. And that's what the detective was

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00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 2: kept drilling to me after when he was interviewing, You're like, TJ, man,

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Speaker 2: look how big yard. Like if I was a kid

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Speaker 2: and you were over here like shaking me, I would

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Speaker 2: be in the same position, Derek saying.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what, are you a big guy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I was. I wouldn't say like a big guy,

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Speaker 2: but I mean I was. I was too sixty at

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Speaker 2: that time. I was, you know, pretty athletic and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't really see myself as a as a Polynesian,

255
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 2: like a big you know, and that's how they look

256
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 2: at us, you know, you guys are pretty big people,

257
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Speaker 2: and so I yeah, I was kind of like freaking out, like, wow,

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Speaker 2: they are actually jelly for me.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: The investigation into Derek's death took nearly six months. During

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00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: that time, police failed to investigate any other angles besides SBS.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they often disregarded evidence that did not point

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Speaker 1: to SBS. For example, police and doctors ignored the fact

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Speaker 1: that Derek had been sick before his death, and was

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Speaker 1: in fact taking multiple medications a doctor had prescribed to

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Speaker 1: address his symptoms. Also, in the weeks before his death,

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Speaker 1: while being babysat by two twelve year old girls, Derek

268
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: suffered a fall. The police did not ask the babysitters

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Speaker 1: about this, nor did they follow up on any of

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00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: his other medical issues. When Derek first got to the

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00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: hospital that day, doctors also noted that he was doing

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00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 1: something called posturing, which is what TJ saw with Derek's

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00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: clench fists and bent arms. Posturing is a sign of

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00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 1: seizure activity and can also indicate swelling in the brain.

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Speaker 1: But when doctors discovered the brain swelling, they then focused

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00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 1: their attention on confirming their suspicions of SBS, ignoring any

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00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 1: other possible causes. During the investigation period, TJ and Leona

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00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 1: were still in touch with Melissa. She didn't blame TJ

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Speaker 1: for the death of her son, and in fact had

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Speaker 1: told that to the police.

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00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,760
Speaker 2: She said, yes, I went to cops and I told

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Speaker 2: him that you didn't do it. I know you didn't

283
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 2: do it. You would never do something like this with

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Speaker 2: my son, because she knew, like I took care of

285
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,400
Speaker 2: her son better than she's ever done, you know what

286
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 2: I mean. I've always been there to bathe him, and

287
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 2: you know, whenever she's too tired to care for him

288
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 2: or whatnot. And plus you know, Derek and my son,

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00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,560
Speaker 2: like we're almost the same age and they play with

290
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 2: each other. So when she made that statement that she

291
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 2: knew that, she knew I didn't do nothing to her

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00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 2: son to cause this harm against Derek. They looked at

293
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 2: her as a suspect. They didn't turn her. I say,

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00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 2: what was either you're a TJ. Now, if you're saying

295
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Speaker 2: the TJ didn't do it, then you're the one. And

296
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,400
Speaker 2: so that's when she retracted her statement and made another statement.

297
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,560
Speaker 1: On October tenth, two thousand and one, TJ was working

298
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 1: one of his jobs when the police showed up.

299
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 2: There is like seven patrol cars that came on base.

300
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was going on. I'd seen my

301
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,800
Speaker 2: boss walking with a whole bunch of guys behind him.

302
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 2: Those were the detectives that are coming to apprehend me

303
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 2: for the charge of the shaking babysitter case.

304
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 1: TJ was arrested and charged with manslaughter and second degree murder.

305
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 1: Salome was shocked when she found out. She remembers thinking

306
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,639
Speaker 1: about her youngest sister, who is thirteen years younger than TJ.

307
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 4: My mom left my dad when she was only a

308
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 4: week old. So TJ was literally like her father growing up,

309
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 4: and I've seen him like change her diverse, you know,

310
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 4: literally everything. So it was hard to it was hard

311
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 4: to even accept that's what they were charging him with

312
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 4: or arresting him. For because that's just not what I

313
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 4: could never imagine him doing.

314
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Speaker 1: In addition to the charges, TJ was hit with a

315
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 1: double whammy.

316
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 2: They even took my two boys from me when this happened.

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00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 1: By this time, Leona had given birth to their second son, Javin.

318
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Speaker 2: They said I couldn't be around my kids until further investigation.

319
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Speaker 2: And you know, when they took my kids from must,

320
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Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. I just felt like there was

321
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 2: a nightmare. I just I still remember that day like

322
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 2: vividly right now, and that's why I was like, man,

323
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Speaker 2: I just hated that feeling.

324
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: TJ's trial started two and a half years later in

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Speaker 1: March of two thousand and four. The prosecutor was Adrian Bachmann,

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Speaker 1: and the case against TJ was thin.

327
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Speaker 2: They can bring one person on my behalf. They ever

328
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 2: say that they saw me be violent, a violent guy,

329
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 2: and we'll do something to this, you know, to a kid.

330
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Speaker 1: The prosecution's entire case rested solely on the idea that

331
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Speaker 1: only violently shaking a baby could cause the symptoms Derek had,

332
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: and that the injuries could have only happened within a

333
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,360
Speaker 1: few hours of Derek's death, when only TJ was home

334
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 1: with him.

335
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Speaker 6: The testimony a trial was pretty consistent with if these

336
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,399
Speaker 6: three symptoms show up, it's child abuse and shaking baby,

337
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,159
Speaker 6: and it has to have happened within the last couple

338
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Speaker 6: of hours.

339
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 1: This is Bill Oberly. He's the executive legal director of

340
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 1: the Alaska Innocence Project. He says this was pretty much

341
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: the only evidence presented at trial.

342
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 6: No signs on Derek of any fresh injuries, no signs

343
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 6: that he was picked up and held tightly and shaken,

344
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 6: no neck injuries. There was nothing presented that would support

345
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 6: provide physical evidence of the allegations they were making.

346
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,959
Speaker 1: However, one neighbor did testify to hearing a noise like

347
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: furniture dropping quote loud enough that it shook the ceiling.

348
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 1: The prosecution suggested this was TJ slamming Derek on the floor.

349
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: So how did the defense respond?

350
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 6: That was much of the defense was that there was

351
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 6: no indication of any fresh injuries.

352
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: TJ's attorney was Rex Butler.

353
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 6: The defense called one expert witness, Janice Ophoven, who was

354
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Speaker 6: a forensic pathologist.

355
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: Doctor Ophoven testified that there were indications of iron deposits

356
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: in Derek's brain.

357
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 6: When blood starts to decompose after bleeding, like in the brain,

358
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 6: iron is formed, and so the presence of iron in

359
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 6: Derek's brain meant that the injury he suffered would have

360
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 6: been five to seven days old.

361
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: But that wasn't enough reasonable doubt for the jury. After

362
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 1: three days of deliberations, on April first, two thousand and four,

363
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: TJ was convicted of second degree murder.

364
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: I didn't think it was real because I got convicted

365
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: on April Fool's Day. When they say guilty, I looked

366
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 2: at my attorney, I say, did they just say guilty?

367
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 2: I was shocked. And what made it real for me

368
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: that I knew that they say guilty was my mom.

369
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: She started helping out crying and I looked back at

370
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 2: her and not just seeing her just like getting weak

371
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: and just everybody's trying to pick her up, and I

372
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: just started like breaking down. I can't believe it. It didn't

373
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 2: finally hit me till they closed the door after escorting

374
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:21,239
Speaker 2: me back where they hold people. It was tough. It

375
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: was I hate reliving that memory, and that was the

376
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: one memme I was trying to erase, but it's stuck

377
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 2: in there.

378
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: Twenty two year old TJ was sentenced to twenty years

379
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: in prison the minimum sentence.

380
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 2: At the time, first, it was a scary you know,

381
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 2: just a scary just a being incarcerated. You see a

382
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: lot of movies about prison, and you know, for me

383
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: to actually be there, and yeah, I didn't want to

384
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: do nothing. I didn't even eat their food for a

385
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: whole year. I started questioning that, man, where did I

386
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: go wrong? And you know, with my life, you know,

387
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: there's a lot of questions going through my head. I

388
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: didn't know what to do.

389
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: Leona brought their kids to see TJ regularly, but as

390
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,959
Speaker 1: his years in prison went on, TJ's relationship with Leona deteriorated.

391
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: I didn't blame her for it, you know what I mean,

392
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: It gets lonely out there for people. Of course, she

393
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 2: has needs and wants stuff like that that need to

394
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: be met, and she ended up going her separate way.

395
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 2: And it was tough to even explain it to my kids,

396
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: but they knew what was going on. Like in some

397
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: of our visits, will start kissing and hugging each other,

398
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 2: and then as we started getting years in, they noticing

399
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: us just not even doing that. I'm doing that with

400
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 2: my kids, I'm hugging them. So they started noticing that

401
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: we're not holding hands in a visiting room. It was

402
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: it was definitely tough.

403
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: TJ and Leona divorced in twenty ten. But in the

404
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: middle of that, TJ got some good news. His sister,

405
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: Salome told him she was engaged.

406
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 4: The reason why I even seen potential in my husbands

407
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: because he reminds me so much of my brother. He

408
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 4: embodies everything that I could say that I would be

409
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 4: looking for in a man.

410
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: But Salome told her fiance that they couldn't get married

411
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 1: until TJ was out. She had always dreamed of having

412
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: her big brother walk her down the aisle, and.

413
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 4: Because of that, we were waiting for his appeals they

414
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 4: were getting denied.

415
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: After about five years, TJ told her not to wait

416
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: any longer.

417
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 4: He called me and he said, I don't know why

418
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 4: you keep putting your.

419
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,120
Speaker 3: Life on hold. You should go ahead and marry him.

420
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to because I wanted him to

421
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: be there, but because he was like, all my appeals

422
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 3: are getting denied. I don't think I'm going to get

423
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: out anytime soon, so stop putting your life on hold

424
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 3: for me, And that was like the hardest thing for

425
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 3: me to accept, and I just remember crying and telling

426
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: him I didn't want to, but I did eventually get

427
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 3: married and he wasn't there, and it was like it

428
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 3: was like I was trying to be happy, but at

429
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: the same time that was a big part of me

430
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: that was missing.

431
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: Life was passing tjby as he sat in prison.

432
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: All I was trying to do was get out as

433
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: soon as I could, like going and hating the law library,

434
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: learning about my case and just seeing what kind of

435
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: what else I can do to help give me out sooner.

436
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 2: And so that's what that about the Alaska Innocence Project.

437
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: He immediately reached out to tell them about his case,

438
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: and in twenty eleven he got a letter back from

439
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: Bill Oberly and.

440
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: He's willing to take over my case and give it

441
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: a shot, you know, give me a second chance at

442
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: go in the courts. I was like wow. I remember

443
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: calling my family up and just in tears is of happiness, like,

444
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: oh wow, this is the second chance that I've always wanted.

445
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: I pray for I look forward to it, you know

446
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: what I mean. So just to know that I do

447
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: have a fighting chance to get out.

448
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 6: We at the ASK Innocence Project and all the Innocence

449
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 6: projects in America take their jobs really seriously, and we

450
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 6: have to be convinced that our client is innocent before

451
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 6: we are willing to go forward. And that is my

452
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 6: feeling about t J. Edwards, that I have no doubt

453
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 6: that he is innocent. Twenty eleven was when the shaking

454
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 6: baby syndrome belief was starting to be challenged in a

455
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 6: fairly strong degree. And as I dug deeper into TJ's case,

456
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 6: two things became clear to me. One, I met TJ

457
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 6: and realized what kind of individual he was and that

458
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 6: on one level convinced me that he could not have

459
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 6: done what he was accused of doing or convicted of doing.

460
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 6: And secondly, I looked into the facts of the case

461
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 6: as it related to shaking baby syndrome and realized that

462
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 6: the challenges that were being put forward on shaking baby

463
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 6: cases all pretty much applied to TJ's case.

464
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: Today, experts agree that there can be other explanations for

465
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: the triad, like seizures or even a shortfall. Bill says

466
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: that Derek's strange sickness and the symptoms days before he

467
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: died clearly showed something else was going on with him,

468
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: and that investigators should have considered this.

469
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 6: The basis of the conviction. The medical legal testimony that

470
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 6: was the basis of the conviction can no longer support

471
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 6: the conviction, and therefore it is a wrongful conviction and

472
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 6: needs to be overturned.

473
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: For years, Bill worked on preparing TJ's appeal, but in

474
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, twenty years after he was first incarcerated, TJ

475
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: was released on parole. He completed his parole term in

476
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: the summer of twenty twenty one. Although TJ is no

477
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: longer a prisoner of the state, he is still labeled

478
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: a convicted baby killer.

479
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: I'm somewhat free. I'm still with my name not clear.

480
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: That's how I look at it. I'm still incarcerateds you

481
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: know what I mean, until everything is exhausted and getting

482
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: clear from the system. That's why I look at being free.

483
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, TJ is trying to adjust to life outside prison.

484
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: I ain't gonna lie this whole incarceration. That definitely my loss,

485
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: like my joy in life, as far as like all

486
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: the fun things I used to love. I used to

487
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: love Christmas, I used to love birthdays. I used to

488
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: love anniversaries. I used to love like just celebration. Right

489
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: when I got out, I feel like if I was

490
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: to be celebrated and happy, like you'll get taken away

491
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: from me, just like that. If I have too much fun,

492
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: it's gonna get taken away from And that's what incarceration

493
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: did for me.

494
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, Bill filed a post conviction challenge to

495
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: TJ's conviction, stating that the changes in forensic evidence invalidate

496
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the conviction. They are still in litigation.

497
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 6: The fact that a shortfall cannot cause these injuries is

498
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 6: no longer voured testimony. How many doctors do you need

499
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 6: to come forward and say that.

500
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: TJ is now working at an oil field in the

501
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: North Slope Borough in Alaska and is saving to buy

502
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: a home for his family. He's remarried to a woman

503
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: named Morgan, is a father to her children, Caden and Victoria,

504
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: and of course continues to have a relationship with both

505
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: of his sons from his first marriage. His family is

506
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: planning to move to California to be closer to Salome,

507
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: who is ecstatic her best friend is out of prison.

508
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 4: What I love about him too is that even if

509
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: he's in a shower or doing something, he always picks up,

510
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 4: So it's great to be able to have that communication

511
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 4: and for me to be able to call him instead

512
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 4: of having to wait until he's available. I was just

513
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 4: laughing about this the other day because because of him,

514
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 4: I FaceTime a lot now. TJ is very much he

515
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: doesn't like calling just on the phone. He wants to

516
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 4: FaceTime all the time.

517
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: TJ says now that he's he wants to continue to

518
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: mentor kids like he used to do his own siblings,

519
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: and as he did in prison.

520
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: I felt like I was a therapist in there, you know,

521
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: giving all advices and some of the people I have

522
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 2: relationship now when I get out, they're the reason why

523
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: I'm up here. I'm the slope now, you know, having

524
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: a good job up here. I feel like my work

525
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: here in Alaska is not done as far as like,

526
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, wanting to go out here and speaking to

527
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 2: some of the youth up here and just share my story,

528
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: you know with them. This can happen to you. You know,

529
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: if you're you're thinking you got a perfect life going

530
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: and a snap of a finger, you're just on the

531
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: other side now.

532
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: To help support the Alaska Innocence Project, go to Alaska

533
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: Innocence Project dot org or check out the links in

534
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: our bio. Next time on Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling,

535
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: Gwen Graham.

536
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 7: Let's see, I know the police are coming down to

537
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 7: talk to me. They said, your extra friend said that

538
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 7: you killed somebody at an earthly home and I laughed

539
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 7: at him. I said, I can't believe you came down

540
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 7: here for that bullship. But then when they charged me

541
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 7: with I think for and more, That's when I started

542
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 7: losing it.

543
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please

544
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links

545
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help. I'd

546
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wurtis,

547
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer, Annie Chelsea, producer Lyla Robinson,

548
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: and story editor Sonya Paul. The show is edited and

549
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: mixed by Annie Chelsea, with additional production by Jeff Cliburn

550
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by

551
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to

552
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at

553
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as

554
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: well as at Lava for Good on all three platforms.

555
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: You can also follow me on both Instagram and Twitter

556
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a

557
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with Signal

558
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