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Speaker 1: Oh, welcome once again to Behind the Bastards, the only

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Speaker 1: podcast where the host regularly says that his show is

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Speaker 1: cash money. Um, I'm I'm Robert Evans, here to talk

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Speaker 1: with you about bad people. Sophie Lichtman seems very unhappy,

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Speaker 1: which is not cash I just have extreme secondhand embarrassment.

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Speaker 1: Well that's too bad, Sophie, because I'm bringing it back,

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Speaker 1: bringing back the phrase. As you know, everything you do

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Speaker 1: reflects on me for some god forsakend reason, that is

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Speaker 1: not very cash money. I think it's extremely cash money

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Speaker 1: off me. But here to be the tie breaking vote

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Speaker 1: is James Stout. Now, James, you're British, so so the

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Speaker 1: phrase cash money may not mean much to you in

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Speaker 1: in your language, I would say it's drawings of an

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Speaker 1: elderly man who's never worked today in his life. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it is now is now? Cash money has very little

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Speaker 1: value when it's tied to the life expectancy of an

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Speaker 1: inbred old person with sausage fingers. I thought a bunch

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Speaker 1: of different ways of describing the new bills with with

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Speaker 1: King Charles on them. Um, part of me wanted to

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Speaker 1: make a reference to the weird sex that got linked

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Speaker 1: to him. In Camilla. Oh, I made I made an

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Speaker 1: ethical decision that even the King of England deserves to

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Speaker 1: have his sex be private. I just like, don't need

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Speaker 1: nobody needs, okay, just but you don't want to think

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Speaker 1: about him sneaking outside and what was it like getting

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Speaker 1: his pajamas dirty and having his valet clean them. Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That and his he's got some he's got a very

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Speaker 1: specific kinks. Okay, yeah, yeah that's what as well as

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Speaker 1: William Yeah, kinky little as this kink murdering his first wife.

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Speaker 1: You know it's it's it's a tampon thing. Um yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: not expected. Yeah, we we know far too much about

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Speaker 1: what Charles has been sending, um my heartbreaking amount. I

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Speaker 1: would say, don't don't google it, Loo, I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: the truth, but don't google this yar laptop anyway. So

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Speaker 1: I just broke my promise right there not to not

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Speaker 1: to laugh at the King of England's sexual escapades. James,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about cigarettes? Oh? I think the

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Speaker 1: idea wasn't expecting that I kind of ambiguous. I guess,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah. A lot of a lot of bad things

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Speaker 1: happened because people like to smoke cigarettes. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people like to get really really up in other people's

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Speaker 1: business about smoking cigarettes. So it's it's a difficult one.

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Speaker 1: I I have the same difficulty because on one hand,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of constitutionally anti prohibition, Like I don't think

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Speaker 1: things should be illegal or illegal. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: government should stop people from doing stuff just because it's

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Speaker 1: bad for their health. Um. And I also see cultural

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Speaker 1: value to an extent in cigarettes. I've had some memorable

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Speaker 1: there's I tend to I tend to believe that every

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Speaker 1: single drug, even the ones that we call bad drugs,

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Speaker 1: has an ideal use case where it is is a

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Speaker 1: societal good for the drug to be available, And for cigarettes,

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Speaker 1: that good is when someone has just tried to kill you.

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Speaker 1: There's a there's nothing like a cigarette someone's just trying

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Speaker 1: to kill her, hurt you, which is why they're so

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Speaker 1: value outside of British nightclub Yeah, exactly, thet You never

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Speaker 1: know when a bottle is coming for your temple there yet,

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's it. Um, you know, I I but I

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Speaker 1: get it, like it's one of those things. The there

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Speaker 1: was a need for a period of time where we

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Speaker 1: attacked and demonized, particularly the tobacco industry because they lied

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Speaker 1: to everybody about the health risks of cigarettes in a

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Speaker 1: way that that caused that cause more lives maybe than

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Speaker 1: all of the wars in the last centuries. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of an unbelievable body count. Um. That said, I think

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Speaker 1: today people throw down too much against smokers, and and

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Speaker 1: maybe there's maybe maybe we shouldn't be quite so shitty

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Speaker 1: to people who just happened to smoke cigarettes. But what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this week is fucking the

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Speaker 1: history of cigarettes. Because as I dug into this, I

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Speaker 1: was initially planning just to do an episode on big

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Speaker 1: tobacco and how they hid the health harms of cigarettes,

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Speaker 1: and we will do those episodes. We're gonna talk about that,

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Speaker 1: some of these we will do dedicated episodes on those.

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Speaker 1: But as I got into the research, I was continually

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Speaker 1: amazed by the extent to which cigarettes are responsible for

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Speaker 1: most of like the things that we consider the modern world,

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Speaker 1: like like the cigarettes, the in order to get people

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Speaker 1: to smoke, the tobacco industry had to invent modern civilizations. Um.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's a fascinating story and I just want

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Speaker 1: to talk talk about it. Is one of those we're

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Speaker 1: getting behind a bastard at this point. You know, when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the eighteen hundreds up through like the

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Speaker 1: middle of the twentieth century, you're not a bad person

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Speaker 1: for necessarily for trying to get people to smoke, because

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Speaker 1: if it's nineteen o five, number one, cigarettes not a

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Speaker 1: massive risk above like walking outside your door. But also

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Speaker 1: you just don't have good data. So yeah, the ambient

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Speaker 1: level of smoking is pretty high, just some existing in

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Speaker 1: any other just from being around. We'll talk about that

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Speaker 1: a bit, but first we have to do some prehistory. Now,

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Speaker 1: we don't know exactly when the first human beings started

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Speaker 1: smoking or otherwise ingesting tobacco for the first time, because

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Speaker 1: there's a good chance the earliest tobacco users were not

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Speaker 1: smoking it. Um. But we're broadly speaking, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: there's debate about this too, but archaeologists can confirm that

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Speaker 1: by at latest the first century BC, the Maya people

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Speaker 1: of Central America were using tobacco as a part of

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Speaker 1: their religious rituals um and they were both smoking it

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Speaker 1: and like inhaling it uh in kind of a similar

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Speaker 1: way to snuff. Right, you can snort tobacco if it's

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Speaker 1: ground ground. Finally enough, they probably also chewed it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there were a couple of different devices they had for

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Speaker 1: smoking it, and we don't we we will never know

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Speaker 1: which was like the first, right, like we just know

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Speaker 1: which ones we kind of have written records of earliest.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of those written records come from Europeans,

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Speaker 1: so obviously that's a long time after they would have

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Speaker 1: started using them. Um. But and it and again there's

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Speaker 1: even some debate as to like, well, we're the Maya,

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Speaker 1: the first people who were cultivating tobacco, and probably the

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Speaker 1: answer to that is no. But we certainly know the Maya.

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Speaker 1: We're cultivating tobacco in the first century BC, and it's

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Speaker 1: spread from Central America to the Mississippi Valley and beyond

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Speaker 1: and was quickly adopted by neighboring people's from like four

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Speaker 1: hundred to seven hundred a d is when you see

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Speaker 1: most most of this spread, and it makes it all

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Speaker 1: the way out to the fucking Caribbean. Oh yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: where Columbus rant into it at first. Right, that is

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Speaker 1: exactly the thing that happens in this episode of James

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Speaker 1: Christopher Goddamn Columbus becomes the first European to encounter tobacco,

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Speaker 1: which was being smoked by the natives of Hispaniola which

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Speaker 1: is modern day Haiti and the Dominican Republic via a

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Speaker 1: weird two pronged nose pipe. So they would they would

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Speaker 1: smoke it, but they would like inhale it through this

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Speaker 1: pipe that like smoke all kind of situation. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: looks a little bit. It looks a little bit like

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Speaker 1: a canula. Okay, yeah, like a nasal canula. I made

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Speaker 1: from my book A Brief History of Vice. I recreated

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Speaker 1: these pipes as best I could. I would up actually

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Speaker 1: using the stock of dried like the dried stock of

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Speaker 1: marijuana plants, because it's hollow, and so I just had

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Speaker 1: to kind of find why bends that were the right shape. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's obviously. I don't think what they would have used.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they plant they would have used

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Speaker 1: for it. But you do get pretty fucked up when

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Speaker 1: you smoke raw nicotina rustica through directly into your mucus membrane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can see that one being pretty rough on the

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Speaker 1: old excited sis. I would not, It's it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things you have to divorce kind of if you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about tobacco in this period from modern day because

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Speaker 1: it's not number one, most people smoking it. This is

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Speaker 1: not a habitual thing for them. It's a ritual thing

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Speaker 1: for them. Right. There are people, certainly by the time

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Speaker 1: Columbus it's Hispaniola, who seem to just do it recreationally.

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Speaker 1: But for the most part, most people's encounters with tobacco

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Speaker 1: is probably in like a very um kind of fairly

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Speaker 1: strict ritual sense. Uh. And and also it's pretty uncommon

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Speaker 1: to have like a habit. Even the people who would

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Speaker 1: be heavy smokers, I doubt are smoking more than the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of a couple of cigarettes in a day, um,

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Speaker 1: in part because it's kind of hard to when you're

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Speaker 1: smoking them. But right, Yeah, there's a lot of work

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Speaker 1: that imagine goes into producing a nose cigarette, from growing

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Speaker 1: the tobacco, drying get out, and yeah, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of work. And you also you can't smoke just when

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Speaker 1: you when you want to fix because you don't have lighters,

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Speaker 1: you don't have matches, right like fire Obviously, the people

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Speaker 1: who are living, you know, in these places are a

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Speaker 1: lot better at starting fires than most people in the

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Speaker 1: modern world are. But it's still not nearly as easy, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna just make a fire because you want

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Speaker 1: like a fucking smoke in the like, yeah, get a

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Speaker 1: piece of wood out. So again, smoking even when it's

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Speaker 1: not like for a religious purpose, it's probably broadly like Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's meal time and we'll smoke after the meal, right,

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Speaker 1: or like smoke before because we've we've got the fire going,

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Speaker 1: or it's nighttime, we're cooling down, we've got the fire going.

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Speaker 1: You know, now we can smoke tonight. Um. Like, generally,

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Speaker 1: that's probably how it would have gone when Columbus winds up,

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Speaker 1: you know, meeting these people in Foo and watching them smoke.

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Speaker 1: They actually hand him tobacco and he doesn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do with it until he watches them smoke it, um,

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Speaker 1: and he sees he encounters a couple of different methods.

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Speaker 1: He sees the nose pipes. He also sees people wrapping

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Speaker 1: tobacco leaves with corn husks, which is probably the first

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Speaker 1: cigarettes in this Yeah. Uh, it's also worth knowing that

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Speaker 1: over in Cuba people would wrap their tobacco in tobacco leaves,

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Speaker 1: so they were again like hundreds and hundreds of years

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Speaker 1: ago smoking cigars and cube. That actually goes back really

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Speaker 1: fucking far, probably more than a thousand years, people have

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Speaker 1: been smoking something broadly similar to a cigar in in

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Speaker 1: that that's pretty cool. It is kind of neat, right,

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Speaker 1: I enjoy Yeah, Yeah, there are many things that we consume,

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Speaker 1: I guess, you know, sometimes we freeze vegetables and stuff,

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Speaker 1: but it's not much that we consume that people consumed

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Speaker 1: a thousand years ago and made in a pretty similar fashion. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like I've been to a Cuban cigar factory. Is still

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Speaker 1: like rolled by hand. We're gonna talk about that a

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Speaker 1: lot in these episodes, but yeah, they they obviously different

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Speaker 1: techniques have become popular over time, and you get better

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Speaker 1: at it the way you get in anything. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: modern cigars are much tighter and you know, together better

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Speaker 1: than cigars in two did. But broadly speaking, like part

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I'm a car smoker, I tend to

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Speaker 1: think Cuban cigars are are the best, Uh, I like

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Speaker 1: to Yeah. Throughout the tragic that the cultural inheritance of

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Speaker 1: that today, it's like guys who think that they shooting

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Speaker 1: the entire Republican Party. Yes, yeah, like Ben Shapiro and

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Speaker 1: friends pretending to perform masculinity and then like going off

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Speaker 1: to coff and be sick. Yeah, I mean it's it's

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Speaker 1: a bummer they are. You know, I'm not a I

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Speaker 1: tend to like I've tried to read a cigar aficionado

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Speaker 1: magazine once and it had too many It had too

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Speaker 1: many made up words. They use words, and it's not

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Speaker 1: like like liquor, you know, number one liquor actually does

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Speaker 1: like oh, sometimes you get a bourbon and like, oh

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Speaker 1: this this almost tastes more like a coffee, or there's

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Speaker 1: like this, this one's sweeter. It's got this like rich

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Speaker 1: body fucking like cigars are are smoother or not. But like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll read them. They'll be like oh

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Speaker 1: and when you on the on the retro hail, you

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Speaker 1: get this like taste of orange and juniper, and I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: you fucking don't. There's no juniper and this sucking cigar.

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Speaker 1: What is wrong with you? People? Go to hell tobacco.

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Speaker 1: It's unreal. The most pretentious thing that you can that

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Speaker 1: you can do is be a cigar efficient unreal. Just

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Speaker 1: just smoke, just kill yourself slowly. It's fine. Um anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of cute cool that Cubans have been making

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Speaker 1: cigars for hundreds and hundreds of years. Uh, Now there

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Speaker 1: were Like, as I said, the way that people most

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Speaker 1: often used tobacco in the Americas was in religious rights.

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Speaker 1: And when I'm taught, they're not just like smoking to

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Speaker 1: get that kind of little buzz you get from tobacco.

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Speaker 1: The way in which most of these indigenous groups would

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Speaker 1: have used tobacco was as a psychotropic right, like they

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Speaker 1: are like basically tripping on this stuff. Okay, tobacco can

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Speaker 1: be can cause hallucinations and high enough doses. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a powerful mind altering drug when you are

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Speaker 1: taking like massive quantities and were Number One, the tobacco

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Speaker 1: they're smoking is different than the tobacco that we cultivate.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot stronger, and the way they're doing it

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Speaker 1: is different. So one of the most common ways that

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Speaker 1: people would take tobacco in a ritual setting is the

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Speaker 1: chief or kind of religious And there's a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different terms for local sort of religious and political leaders

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Speaker 1: and whatnot. But that dude would inhale a bunch of

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Speaker 1: smokes straight up raw from like a burning like hunk

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Speaker 1: of tobacco, and then he would basically shotgun it into

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Speaker 1: the mouths of the people participating in it. Um And

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Speaker 1: obviously you're getting a lot of smoke that way, like

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get pretty messed up. But um, and it's again,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's as silly as this is probably not

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Speaker 1: all that bad for you when you consider everything people

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Speaker 1: are doing in a thousand a d or whatever. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: if you if a couple of times a year you're

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Speaker 1: you're shot getting some tobacco, that's not gonna be Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your life expectancy isn't long enough for that to be

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Speaker 1: the thing that kills you in most cases, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of the other thousand things it's going to kill

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Speaker 1: you that we've a limit. Yeah, And it's also worth

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Speaker 1: noting that there were a number of health uses of tobacco.

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Speaker 1: It was probably the first effective um insect repellent. One

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Speaker 1: of those combinations of it was to just rub it

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Speaker 1: all over your skin, because tobacco is coated in an

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Speaker 1: oil like that is. Bugs don't it kills bugs like

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Speaker 1: they don't They don't like um No, I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: there are specific bugs that do feed on tobacco, but

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Speaker 1: for the most part, it keeps insects away. So people

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Speaker 1: would rub it on themselves, um that, or they would

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Speaker 1: also bathe in the smoke before like going in and

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Speaker 1: hunting in the bush and stuff, in order to keep

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Speaker 1: bugs off of them. It could work as a tranquilizer.

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Speaker 1: It was used to help put people to sleep. Uh

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I tried for my book

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Speaker 1: was mixing it with urine and garlic in order to

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Speaker 1: create uh an a medic and like a constipation remedy.

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Speaker 1: And it does work for that. I don't recommend following

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Speaker 1: that up, but it does. It does do what it

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Speaker 1: says it. So there were a number of uses for

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Speaker 1: Native Americans of tobacco that absolutely work in a medical contact.

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Speaker 1: There were also some that did not. For example, it

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Speaker 1: was often given to people as a treatment for asthma.

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Speaker 1: Tobacco does not help with asthma. Yeah, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: helping you don't. But also yeah, that's sort of thing

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Speaker 1: that went away, like it just you know, that's we're

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Speaker 1: not like that historically separated from people smoking to clear

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Speaker 1: the lungs, right exactly. And it's also some of the time,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the times when these indigenous people would

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Speaker 1: have been taking tobacco to clear up their asthma, it

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Speaker 1: might not have been smoked as often as it was,

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Speaker 1: like taken as a t um and this can also

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Speaker 1: be toxic. People die. One of the things like ayahuasca

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Speaker 1: ceremonies are very famous in the West. Now, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that some groups do in their ceremonies is

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Speaker 1: they precede the ayahuasca with the tobacco t And there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of cases of people dying in ayahuasca ceremonies. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's because the t is just

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Speaker 1: always dangerous or because these specific folks that we're doing it,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of like grifters and didn't know what they

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Speaker 1: were doing and weren't actually doing at the true aditional way.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that that information exists properly, but

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Speaker 1: this is another way people would take it as a

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Speaker 1: t which don't don't take tobacco. It's actually pretty easy

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Speaker 1: to kill yourself by ingesting tobacco. Please don't do that.

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Speaker 1: I know every now and again, like a pet will

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Speaker 1: eat a bunch of cigarettes. Yea, kill the ship out

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Speaker 1: of you. It's extremely deadly tobacco um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: interesting plant. So the Portuguese were the first Europeans to

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Speaker 1: begin cultivating tobacco for export to Europe. In fifteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: a Royal Navy captain brought the leaf to Ingleland, and

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Speaker 1: despite early opposition from people who considered a filthy, foul

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Speaker 1: drug for foreigners, it took off their like wildfire. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just loved it. Like an immediate British or English

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Speaker 1: response was just like start was then a phobia here,

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00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 1: and then move along from there and work out well,

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Speaker 1: drugs could have kind of picture part of all of

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Speaker 1: our lives and in Europe. In the UK, the story

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Speaker 1: with tobacco was similar to the story with coffee, and

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Speaker 1: that a bunch of like weirdo Christians are like, this

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Speaker 1: is a heathen drug, we shouldn't do it. And then

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Speaker 1: some king will like pick up a cigarette or drink

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Speaker 1: some coffee and be like, hell, yeah, this ship is

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Speaker 1: actually pretty dope. You know what. I think We're fine

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Speaker 1: with tobacco. Yeah. Yeah. In coffee's case, it was literally

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Speaker 1: the Pope being like, oh, this stuff rules, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna baptize it. I'm just gonna baptize coffee

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Speaker 1: now Christians can have it. And then God changed his

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Speaker 1: mind just like that. Yeah, omnipp being omnipotent, being amazing stuff.

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Speaker 1: It would be. I would give a lot of kudos

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Speaker 1: to the Pope if he just baptized marijuana so that

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Speaker 1: Catholics could sue the federal government restricting it. Just imagining

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Speaker 1: came doing fentanyl, like the Pope bless us to protect

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Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, he's dropped it in the fund says

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Speaker 1: this ship's red. Two babies are going to have a

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Speaker 1: rough one. Now put some final in the baptismal font Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna want to give them some narcn They're not

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Speaker 1: going to have a good time. That's what we call

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Speaker 1: na because that was a That was a church joke

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Speaker 1: for you you kids anyway, Uh yeah, you know. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the English start smoking tobacco. Uh. It gets cultivated

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Speaker 1: in the Jamestown settlement in the seventeenth century, and by

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Speaker 1: the seventeen thirties, the English colonies in Virginia had tobacco

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Speaker 1: factories that were manufacturing significant quantities of the stuff, mostly

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Speaker 1: is snuff, which was either inhaled or shoot. That is

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Speaker 1: the predominant way to consume tobacco in the kind of

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Speaker 1: the early period of colonization of the America's um was

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Speaker 1: it like because you see pictures of them sometimes and

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Speaker 1: they got the old timey pipe right, like the long

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Speaker 1: pipe with a little ball. Ye yeah, is that like

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Speaker 1: a class thing? Is that like I can afford to

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Speaker 1: have a pipe in your con some of its class

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Speaker 1: cigars are generally like more expensive. Um, snuff is very cheap.

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Speaker 1: The other thing though, is that again not easy to

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Speaker 1: get access to stuff to light a pipe or to

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Speaker 1: light a cigar. So if you're smoking a pipe or cigar,

347
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 1: you're probably in your home right, so you know, the

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00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 1: beginning of the day or the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: or maybe in like the midday for a meal, you

350
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 1: could have a smoke. But it's not convenient. You can't

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Speaker 1: just light a pipe when you're out in the field

352
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,359
Speaker 1: because like you don't just have a thing that's on

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Speaker 1: fire with you at all times. Um. But you can

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Speaker 1: take snuff any time a day. And it's addictive, yeah, yeah,

355
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Speaker 1: extremely and it's and it's and it's incredibly addictive. Uh

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Speaker 1: So all of the colonizing powers competed for a share

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Speaker 1: of the emerging global tobacco market. And again it's incredibly addictive.

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Speaker 1: So there's enough interest very quickly to spur rapid innovation

359
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,919
Speaker 1: in the field. In eighteen forty three, a French company

360
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 1: given a monopoly over tobacco by King Louis the fourteenth

361
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: starts manufacturing the very first close to modern cigarettes. Now

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00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: people had been smoking again when Columbus lends up, they

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00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: see people like wrapping ship and corn cobs. Those are

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00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: like for for a couple of centuries, that's how you

365
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: smoke a cigarette. You get a corn cob. Sometimes you

366
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 1: get like old paper, like newspaper, like just kind of

367
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 1: whatever papery thing. You can fill it with tobacco and

368
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: smoke it, you know. And then the friendship in goal

369
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: was and have never changed, the friendship and goats, which

370
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 1: are which are still the worst cigarettes on the market.

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00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: They're still smoking something close to modern cigarettes today. Yeah,

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00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: that was Those were the most common cigarettes we smoked

373
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Speaker 1: in Syria, and it was like the goal was that

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00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 1: you couldn't sell in France because the tobacco was still low.

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00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: Great yeah, God, what a horrible cigarette. Yeah, but it's

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00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's yeah everywhere. I just have a lot

377
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 1: of memories of like bike racing in France and having

378
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: to go in to sign on to these races, and

379
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: like you walk in and you just like it's like

380
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: like they used to do in nightclubs with the smoke machine.

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00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 1: You know, just like yeah, yeah, like you are also

382
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: enough to experience like smoking inside in which isn't a

383
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: thing anymore. And you go and you come out, you're like,

384
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: thought that was good for me. And then you see

385
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: the guy who has never going to kick your ass

386
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: in the race, or it's after the race and the

387
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: guy has just won the race is having a fucking cigarette,

388
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: and like, just remember being one of the most COMMI experiences. Yeah,

389
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: he said to the pharmaceutical industry is what he is. Look, kids,

390
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: if you want to know what it's like to walk

391
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: around in a world where people smoke indoors constantly and

392
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 1: in all places, there's an option. Fly to Serbia. Belgrade.

393
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: Will Belgrade will teach you what the seventies was like

394
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: more ways one yeah and I in a number of ways.

395
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: You'll learn about the seventies in Belgrade. Bang in hack Man.

396
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: The track suits there are unreal. There's coming back. That's

397
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: there's a cycle again. When we're talking about what actually

398
00:21:54,080 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: is like a culturally beautiful use for cigarettes. Squatting in

399
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: a field with your buddies in a track suit and smoke. God,

400
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: it's incredible cultured experience burning through a pack of knockoff

401
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: Marlborough's that have two extra ease in them. It doesn't

402
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: have the L's. You know what? You know? Who else

403
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: sells discount cigarettes? Is it Sophie? Sophie does Sophie. If

404
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: you meet Sophie behind the main gym building after lunch

405
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: or after classes, let out, She's always got a couple

406
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: of extra packs on hand and she'll sell you. Lucy's

407
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,239
Speaker 1: what what great? Am I in? What school? Why am

408
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: I out of school? What normal age? I don't like

409
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: the association? And yeah, she's still going there every day. Well,

410
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: that we don't have we can't fund our podcasts for

411
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: some reason, also reflects on you. But here we are, Sophie.

412
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's be honest with ourselves. If if I

413
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: were to get caught selling loose cigarettes to children behind

414
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: a high school, they would only increase my popularity, not uncancellable.

415
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get I'm trying to get him off

416
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: the Jewels anti vaping action. I've got a Joe Camel

417
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: tattoo on my chest. Oh my god, let's let's look

418
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: let's just God, yeah, I'm gonna spend this whole episode

419
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: trying not to say what is a homophobic slur in

420
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: this country. By the way, we're back and James is

421
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: discussing how difficult it is to talk about cigarettes as

422
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: a British person without saying something that's offensive. Ye, that's right. Yeah,

423
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: there's a word that we use in Britain to cigarettes.

424
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: So American people used to be horrible to gay people

425
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to use it, but it's very

426
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: difficult for me, so it is now it doesn't not.

427
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the slur comes from the harmless

428
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: term which also if you read jaire or token, you

429
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: will see that word used constantly in its original meaning.

430
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: It is a little bit out off running sometimes. But

431
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: then the people I grew up well, exactinly when my

432
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: grandmother lived right in rural Devon, was very like people

433
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: still use Steve Aldai. Yeah, but yeah, that that word

434
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: would be used to describe like a small it's a

435
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: type of food, right, there's a food that use that word,

436
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: but also like a small bundle of hay, it's a

437
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: bundle of sticks or whatever, any package, and I think

438
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: you can call it your Amazon word. Yeah, it's it's

439
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: it's anyway, whatever's language, it's it's amazing. So uh yeah,

440
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: all yeah. So in the fourteenth or Louis, the fourteen

441
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: gives the first French company and monopoly over tobacco production

442
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: and they start manufacturing cigarettes, which all have to be

443
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: handled at this point. But this is the first time

444
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: that like a company is selling people cigarettes pretty much

445
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: the first time that a company is selling like a

446
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: large company is trying to make cigarettes into like a

447
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: major business. Prior to this, if you bought cigarettes, most

448
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: people who smoked cigarettes were like poor people, and you

449
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: would just you would have a bag of tobacco and

450
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: you'd wrap it and ship right um. Or you know,

451
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: rolling papers even aren't aren't a thing that you could

452
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: just go out and get. The other way you would

453
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: get it as you would go to a tobaccoist who

454
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: has someone rolled them and you would buy them. Um.

455
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: Cigarettes were generally, because of this, the least favorite method

456
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: of tobacco consumption. They were seen as the thing that

457
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: like homeless people smoked because the most common way to

458
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: smoke cigarettes was to like go outside of a place

459
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: where people with more money had been hanging out like

460
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: a bar and pick up the cigarette the cigar butts

461
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: and like then roll them into a cigarette. Really came

462
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: about that? Man? Is the worst smoke I can imagine. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

463
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: that is bleak. Yeah, but my god, that guy. The

464
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: only person today who could smoke on the level of

465
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: a smoker back then would be maybe Rudy Giuliani. Um,

466
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: you gotta give him. He's one of these weirdos. So cigars,

467
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: you don't inhale a cigar unless your specific kind of

468
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: cigar smoker who believes that everyone else is wrong by

469
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: not inhaling their cigars. I forget what they call themselves,

470
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: but Rudy is one of them. He's an inhaler. He

471
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: takes it all in. Baby. I think cancer is just

472
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: repudiated by him. He's that's gonna be bad for the

473
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: cancer brand. Man. Yeah, I don't want to give mixed

474
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: up with Giuliani. So cigarettes start to get popular with

475
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: Europeans during our right after the Crimean War, when soldiers

476
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: you know who returned because the Crimean War is a

477
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: lot of it's in area is kind of a butting

478
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: in around Turkey. Um, and so they encountered Turkish cigarettes

479
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: and the Turks have been smoking cigarettes and making cigarettes

480
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: for for a bit longer um, and they decided they

481
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,959
Speaker 1: like the Turkish tobacco is good, and it's milder than

482
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: the stuff that they had had had access to. In

483
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty six, one veteran of the war opens London's

484
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: first cigarette factory, which is called Sweet Threes. He has

485
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: joined a few years later by another English entrepreneur who

486
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: creates the second major cigarette factory in London. And this

487
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: guy's name is Philip Morris. So yeah, that's where that

488
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: comes good. Yeah, yeah, there he is, Philip. Yeah, a

489
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: man with a body count that would rival fucking Hitler.

490
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: Uh So, at this point, all cigarettes are still rolled

491
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: by hand. Most are still sold by small retailers. But

492
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: then the Civil War happens in the United States, and

493
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: right after the Civil War things start to change. And

494
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from a write up in the

495
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: Journal of Antiques. Seeing an opportunity in the invert market

496
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: for cigarettes, tobacco man F. S. Kenney began cigarette production

497
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: in New York City as well as a factory in Richmond, Virginia,

498
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: turning out brands with names like Full Dress, Sweet Caporal, Kenney,

499
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: Straight Cut and Sportsman's Corporal using similar blends. Kenny's chief

500
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: competitor in the New York market was Goodwin and Company,

501
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: which sold nationally advertised cigarettes with folksy sounding brand names

502
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: such as Old Judge, Canvas Black, and Welcome. Firms became

503
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: known as the Big Six of the cigarette industry by

504
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: the eighteen seventies as they gained control of of national sales.

505
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: There were, of course, hundreds of smaller cigarette firms operating

506
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: out of back room shops in most major northern cities,

507
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: but their distribution capabilities were usually very limited. I love

508
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: old cigarette brand names. I would. I would smoke Old Judge.

509
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: I think I'd have been an Old Judge man. Well,

510
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: there was one that was particularly great old It was

511
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: for them called old Black. Uh No, there's Old Judge

512
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: Canvas back and while back Okay, I thought it was

513
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: canvas black, like would due to the old lungs. Yeah, Welcome,

514
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: I think I just make a Welcome cigarette from the Welcome. Yeah,

515
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: you get one on your pillow when you go into

516
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: a hotel room. That's a kind of vibe that has.

517
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: It reminds me that that old Bill Hicks Bet when

518
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: he's like, I love that they put the warning labels

519
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: on the cigarettes. Let's me know which ones to avoid.

520
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy the lung cancer cigarettes low birth weight,

521
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: so they'll give me one of the Uh. So, tobacco

522
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: obviously is bad for you. It caused problems for people

523
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: because it's never good for you to smoke, or especially

524
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: on a regular basis is. People are increasingly doing in

525
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: this period, but the harms are still minimal and they're

526
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: pretty much impossible to see on a wide basis. Right,

527
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: very few people are able to smoke regularly throughout their

528
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: day for one thing, for another thing. You know, there's

529
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: there's not good matches the ones that people do have

530
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: matches in this period, but they're phosphorus based and they're

531
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous. It's like carrying a flash bang in your pocket.

532
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: I've seen no issue with that. I think that's amazing. Yeah,

533
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: that's a good idea. Yeah, I just want to whip

534
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: off a rather phosphorus. Great. Is it like literally like

535
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: like white phosphorus, like um, I mean, I don't don't

536
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: know if it's like white phosphorus, but yeah, I mean

537
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: it's it's like a phosphorus like you grind up a

538
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: bunch of phosphorus and then you strike it. I think, um,

539
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: someone like falling over and then yeah, generly, and of

540
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: course your beard oil and hair oil is all alcohol

541
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: and petroleum based. Your shirt has been washed in here,

542
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: gats the lape just catch immediately on fire. Yeah, cigarettes

543
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: will kill you, but not in the way you're expecting. Yeah,

544
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: this is the period in which like spontaneous human combustion

545
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: starts to be a thing. And it's because everything is

546
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: flammable and everyone's carrying around fire bombs in their pockets. Yeah.

547
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, again, as much as we joke about it, heart,

548
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: it's if you were to tell someone's cigarettes are bad, Like,

549
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: that's pretty obvious if you're hanging out with someone today

550
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: who was a smoke poker, because smoker's cough, right, and like,

551
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, you joke about it if you're a smoker,

552
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: like you know it's killing me whatever smoked my cigarette.

553
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: It's not hard to be like put two and two together, like,

554
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: oh this is bad for me. It wouldn't have been

555
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: as obvious back then. For one thing, yeah, smoker's cough,

556
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: but also you know who else coughs is people who

557
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: live in dense cities where the main method of transportation

558
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: is horses. And so there are okay, so New York City.

559
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: The most famous style of houses in New York City.

560
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: They have these big tall porches right that are like

561
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: four or five or six feet off the ground. Those

562
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: big porches that New York and other East Coast cities

563
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: have exist because there would be so much ship in

564
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: the main streets that when it rained there would be

565
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: rivers of feces and rotting carcasses of animals rush, and

566
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: you didn't want it to get near your like your house.

567
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: So you can just sit there and if somebody, if

568
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: people are walking around coughing and looking sick, your first

569
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: guest isn't gonna be it's probably the cigarettes. What a

570
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: place really was a nightmare to be alive. Jesus CHRISTI,

571
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: it's it's striking. But you don't have to make it

572
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: very long to produce a bunch of kids and then

573
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: leave them fatherless. As true as you. Let's just throw

574
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: your corpse in the ship river and the cycle continues.

575
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: It's a Cigarettes in the eighteen seventies were still a

576
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: novelty to most smokers. Less than two percent of people

577
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: who smoked used cigarettes. Again, the most common method of

578
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: tobacco consumption is not even smoking at all, but it

579
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: was chewing what was called plug tobacco. And it was

580
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: into this world and this market that a man named

581
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: James Buchanan Duke stepped in the nineteen or in the

582
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: eighteen eighties. Duke had been born on December eighteen fifty

583
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: six near Durham, North Carolina, and his father was the

584
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: owner of a small tobacco company which was eventually named W.

585
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: Duke and Sons Company or W. Duke, Sons and Company.

586
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: Duke watched in eighteen seventy three, is a powerful depression

587
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: hit the United States and temporarily cigarettes swelled and popularity

588
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: because the urban poor could afford cigarettes, right. Um, So

589
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: that was you know, when they started to take off.

590
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: And he he looks at this, being an intelligent capitalist,

591
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: He's like, we're probably going to continue to have horrible

592
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: economic crashes because it seems like the system is designed

593
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: to do this every like five to ten years. So

594
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: I bet cigarettes have a have a bright future ahead

595
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: of them. I can find a way to make them cheaper. Um. Yeah,

596
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: people started specting them more in times of depressions. They

597
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: didn't have food and they wanted to not be hungry.

598
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: They wanted to not be hungry. It's also just like,

599
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: one of the few things you can afford, period if

600
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: you're poor is a cigarette, because they're they're cheap, they're

601
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: cheaper than food, and a lot of cases they're certainly

602
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: the cheapest method of getting tobacco. They're cheaper than drinking.

603
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: It's just like it's a little comfort that you can

604
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: have if you're a fucking tramp living on the street

605
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: the eighteen seventies, because there's there's not a whole lot

606
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: of other things for you. But but the cigarette is there.

607
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: The working man's friend, isn't it. It is the working man.

608
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: Look again, if you're on the street in the eighteen seventies,

609
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: that held the risks of a cigarette or the least

610
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: of your concerns. You might get concussed by floating. Yeah,

611
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: it's the ship rivers. The main problem you've got a

612
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: deal with, drowning in a river of whole ship. Yeah,

613
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: i'd be smoking whatever. Of course, of course, if they

614
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: invented crack would be on that too. Yeah, you want

615
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: to get out of that situation as quickly as possible. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

616
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: so absolutely so. Duke At this point in time, his

617
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: brothers and his father were like locked into this vicious

618
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: competition with Bull Durham Tobacco, which was run by a

619
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: guy named W. T. Blackwall and was like the big

620
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: tobacco producer of the day. Duke saw this as a

621
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: pointless fight because they're fighting over plug tobacco. He knew

622
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: that the future of the industry he was not in

623
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: plug tobacco. It was in producing something convenient and cheap

624
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: for urban poor people. In eighteen eighty two, his company

625
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: had just ten cigarette rollers on the line, and so

626
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: these are individual people. Cigarettes are made like cigars, by

627
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: random by just like people who know how to do it.

628
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: The first thing he did was add fifty more rollers,

629
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: which still put him well behind the Allen and Ginter

630
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: factory up in Richmond, which employed four hundred and fifty

631
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: female cigarette rollers. But when a New York City cigarette

632
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: factory went on strike, Duke convinced a hundred and twenty

633
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: five of their workers to move down to Durham in

634
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three, offering to pay their moving expenses and

635
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: giving them the highest wages in the industry. This was

636
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: a good deal for these people for a while, but

637
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: If you know anything about capitalists, you know Duke has

638
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: no desire to create well paid jobs for laborers. These

639
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: people are a stop gap. He's thinking like Uber here, right,

640
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: I want to corner the market and then find a

641
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: way to get the human beings out of it, to

642
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: replace them with machines. Um, now he's not. Uh, it

643
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: works a lot better for cigarettes than it does for Uber.

644
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: Turns out this is actually a pretty reasonable business plan

645
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: for cigarettes. Both of them will kill you, but it's

646
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: a self driving cars and a cigarettes. Again, self driving

647
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: castle do it fast and yeah, the cigarettes will do

648
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: it a little more ethically though, so he was in.

649
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: His goal was again he wanted to make He wants

650
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: to make the most profitable tobacco company in the world,

651
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: and the way to do that is to rap fun

652
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: your laborers. Uh. For now though he needed them, and

653
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: by eighteen eighty five he had about seven hand rollers

654
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: in two factories. Most of these are again at young women.

655
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: This is reasonably well paying work for young women. Um.

656
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: He's got a you know, quality control team that checks

657
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: the work. So they're they're trying to put out like

658
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: as uniform a product as possible. But that's not really easy.

659
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: To do. And everyone in the industry making cigarettes knows

660
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of slowly expanding, and they know that we

661
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: can make these a lot cheaper and a lot more

662
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: profitable for us if we can replace the human beings

663
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: with machine rollers. So a couple of companies actually put

664
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: out a bounty in order to produce a machine roller.

665
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote what comes next from that, right

666
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: up from the Journal of Antiques. A young man named

667
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: James Bosnac approached Duke with a cigarette making machine he

668
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: had invented. The young inventor had previously gone to the

669
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: now Big four companies, but had been turned down because

670
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: his machine was prone to break downs, plus there was

671
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: a belief that consumers would never accept a machine made cigarette.

672
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: Duke put top Mechanics to work, hiring out the bugs

673
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: in the Bonzac machine, and signed a deal with the inventor.

674
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: During his first year of production, using his team of

675
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: important hand rollers, Duke turned out nine point eight million cigarettes.

676
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: In contrast, using the Bondsack machines enabled him to produce

677
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: seven hundred and forty four million cigarettes. So eighteen eighty

678
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: one nine point eight million cigarettes. He gets the Bondsack

679
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: machine seven hundred and forty four million. That is a

680
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: sign a significant increase in production. Right there is turning

681
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: point that's gonna change a few things. So he's making

682
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: a lot of cigarettes now, which is great. He's able

683
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: to make them half as expensive as they were before. Um,

684
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: and he's able to, like number one, sell them for

685
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: cheaper and also make a lot more profit for per cigarette.

686
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: But there's a problem, which is that only about two

687
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: percent of Americans who smoke smoke cigarettes. And so the

688
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: fact that he's making seven hundred thirty million more cigarettes

689
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: per year means that he's got a lot of cigarettes

690
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: he can't sell because there's just not that many smokers

691
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: out there. Um. So this is a this is a

692
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: problem for old Duke. Uh. And Duke realizes that, like,

693
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: if he's going to make this thing profitable, what he's

694
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: going to have to do is create demand for cigarettes.

695
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: He's going to have to convince Americans that they actually

696
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: want not just to smoke cigarettes, but to smoke a

697
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: shipload of them. Because one of the things that becomes

698
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: clear is like, well, we went from nine point eight

699
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: million is seven four million for nothing. We can make

700
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: billions of these years. Wouldn't be a problem at all.

701
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: We just need that many smokers to exist. So that's

702
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: a difficult task, right. Old Duke is going to need

703
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: to actually like create a hunger for billions of cigarettes

704
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: in the world in order to make this payoff. And

705
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: that's exactly what he does next. Um great, Yeah, so

706
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: wonderful world of tobacco marketing. Yes, Uh, it's that. That's

707
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: that's what we're that's what we're building towards here. Um. So,

708
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: one of the things that happens when Duke starts manufacturing

709
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: his cigarettes is that suddenly no corporation can afford to

710
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: sell cigarettes without rolling them on a BONDSAC machine. It

711
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: just is so much more efficient. And because Duke could

712
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: helped fix the bonds Act machines, he owns part of

713
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: the pattern effectively. So one of the ways he's making

714
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 1: money is that everyone who's making cigarettes is giving money

715
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: to Duke. Um. He Also one of the things he

716
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: does that's smart is in order to kind of everyone's worried, Okay,

717
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: are people not gonna want to smoke cigarettes that are

718
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: rolled by machine? Uh, Duke starts bragging that his cigare

719
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: retz and machine rolled. He puts it on the packages

720
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: as like a way of like, just what if we

721
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: just try to convince people that machine rolled is better

722
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: than a hand rolled. It's it's cleaner, it's more hygienic,

723
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: it's more modern. Right, oh, which is technically true? The

724
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: next I want to quote from a book called The

725
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: Cigarette Century by Alan Brandt. By eighteen eighty four, while

726
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: his competitors were still hesitating, Duke had installed to Bonsac

727
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: machines in his Darrham factory. A year later, after experimenting

728
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: to improve the machines performance, Duke signed a secret contract

729
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: in which he agreed that he would produce all his

730
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: cigarettes with the Bonzact machine. In return, Bonzac reduced Duke's

731
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: royalties to twenty cents per thousand. Duke and Bonzac soon

732
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: reached a further agreement guaranteeing Duke a discount on royalties

733
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: against all other manufacturers. Also, Duke shrewdly hired one of

734
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: Bonzac's disgruntled mechanics, William Thomas O'Brien, to operate his machines,

735
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: assuring fewer breakdowns than his competition. By June six, O'Brien

736
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: was meticulously maintaining ten machines. Duke placed a heavy emphasis

737
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: on efficiency and continuous production. The lessons he learned in

738
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: developing the mass production of cigarettes he would sooner apply

739
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: more broadly to industrial organization. By becoming bonds Acts premier customer,

740
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: Duke secured essential control over its technology and turned Bonds

741
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: Acts patent into a powerful competitive advantage. It was increasingly

742
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: common for inventors to relinquish their patents to corporations. Duke

743
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: understood the control of the Bonds Act patent through his

744
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: secret discounted licensing agreement was a critical lever in dominating

745
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: the cigarette trade. His deal with Bonds Act reflected an

746
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: important change in the character of the patent system from

747
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: a legal mechanism protecting independent inventors to one that would

748
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: protect large and powerful corporations. Duke is, what he's done

749
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: here is invent the modern usage of patents like corporations

750
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: for corporate advantage. Right, Like, everyone who is who, like

751
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: every business leader who follows in any kind of industry

752
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: is going to copy him. Yeah, man, that might be

753
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: one of the things that's killed more people that cigarettes, right, Like, yeah, yeah,

754
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: because a lot of medical patents and stuff that works

755
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: on the same fucking idea, you know. Yeah, nearly every

756
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: nearly every drug is patented, and of course he's not

757
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: trying to do anything evil with it. He just wants

758
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: everyone to smoke cigarettes um perfectly, perfectly, morally, uncomplicated, rightly.

759
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: I just we talked about it on the episode of

760
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here on Monday. But U c l

761
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: A Is pursuing an IP case in India about a

762
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: a prostate cancer drug cardig standy Um, which they're trying

763
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: to stop a generic production at cheaper generic production of them.

764
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: Just imagining the old handshake me between U c l

765
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: A And Duke care and giving people series coming together

766
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 1: on that's beautiful. So the Bondsac machine quickly replaced human

767
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: rollers who left the cigarette industry to roll cigars, which

768
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: is the only form of tobacco that's going to prove

769
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: immune to the corporate age that Duke is ushering in.

770
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: Through the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties, cigarettes smoking increased

771
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: and the size of a pack doubled from ten to twenty,

772
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: taking advantage of how easy it was to smoke now.

773
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: The first proper match books, invented in the early twentieth

774
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: century helped or adoption, but by nineteen hundreds still less

775
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: than two percent of tobacco consumers are smoking cigarettes. Now,

776
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: Duke knows that his dream of selling cigarettes to the

777
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: world is not going to work if he can't convince

778
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: Americans that they wanted to smoke and they wanted to

779
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: smoke as a habit. So he set out to do

780
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: something no one had ever really done before, which was

781
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: create a market for a product using advertising. Obviously, merchants

782
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: since Timeme Memorial had advertised their wares and attempted to

783
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: set themselves apart from the competition. But what Duke is

784
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: doing is new. Duke is trying to convince people they

785
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: want to do something they haven't done that that's not

786
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: really been a thing in capitalism up to this point. Um,

787
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: It's one thing to be like, Hey, I'm Samuel Colt.

788
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: I've invented a better handgun like you want. If you

789
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: want a handgun, you want a handgun. My job with

790
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: my marketing is is to convince you mind's the best, right,

791
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: But you're not. You're not convincing people well now I

792
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: need a gun, right, like they decided they need a

793
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: gun because it's the fucking eighteen eighties or what uh

794
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: fucking Duke is like these people are fine without cigarettes.

795
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: That's this isn't a problem. There's not a need that

796
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: I'm trying to serve here. I have to create it

797
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: um and one of the first plays he's going to do.

798
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: This is really quite innovative and it ends in a

799
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: surprising place. So in the late eighteen eighties, French tradesmen

800
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: had set to making stiff, colorful cards to advertise their businesses.

801
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: These cards often often featured illustrations of women generally wearing

802
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: very little clothing, or sports heroes or like historical landmarks

803
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: to make them collectible and thus give individual people a

804
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: reason to keep a business card in their possession. Now

805
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: we don't know where Duke first heard about this phenomenon,

806
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: but starting in the eighteen eighties he had a print

807
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: shop installed in his Durham factory that can make color prints.

808
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: At first, he printed out the standard advertisements and coupons

809
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: that most businessmen used, but soon he hit upon an

810
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: idea and I'm gonna quote from Duke University here, with

811
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: each pack of cigarettes, a small cardboard insert was added

812
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: to stiff in the box. Duke employed a little imagination

813
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: turn these simple workhorses into a powerful marketing tool. By

814
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: printing the brand name of the cigarettes along with the

815
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: picture that was part of a larger series and which

816
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: was meant to be collected. Series of birds, flags, civil

817
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: war generals and baseball players were employed frequently with historical

818
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: or educational information on them. Photographs of actresses women placed

819
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: in a variety of poses and often we're rather revealing

820
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: costumes for the time were also used on the insert

821
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 1: cards and exceeded all expectations and their popularity on the public.

822
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: So a lot of these trading cards, and these are

823
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: the first trading cards, are outright pornographic, at least by

824
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: nineteenth century standards, and there are outcries against the practice

825
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: because the people who want them the most are are

826
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: young boys. Are kids, right, Kids start smoking to collect

827
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: trading cards. That's what juveniles how juvenile smoking starts at

828
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: the United Um. They want to collect baseball cards and

829
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: to do so they have to buy packs of cigarettes.

830
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: And this this works like gang. It increases cigarette sales massively.

831
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: It's a really successful ad campaign, but it also leads

832
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: to a wave of young cigarette addicts who are also

833
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: getting into porn, which is difficult for people to accept.

834
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: Busy bodies of the day to accept. One of those

835
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: busy bodies included Duke's father, who wrote this letter to

836
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: his son in eighteen ninety four. My dear son, I

837
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: have received the enclosed letter from the Reverend from the

838
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: Reverend John C. Hocut, and am much impressed with the

839
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: wisdom of his argument against circulating lascivious photographs with cigarettes,

840
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: and have made up my mind to bring the matter

841
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: to your attention and the interest of morality, and in

842
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: the hope that you can invent a proper substitute for

843
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: these pictures, which which will answer your requirements as an

844
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 1: advertisement as well as an inducement to purchase. His views

845
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: are so thoroughly and plainly stated that I do not

846
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: know how I can add anything except to state that

847
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: they accord with my own and that I have always

848
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: looked upon the distribution of this character of advertisement is

849
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: wrong and its pernicious effects upon young men and womanhood,

850
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: and therefore has not jingled with my religious impulses. Outside

851
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: of the fact that we owe Christianity all the assistance

852
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 1: we can lend it in any form which is paramount

853
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: to the other consideration. I am fully convinced that this

854
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: mode of advertising will be used and greatly strengthened the

855
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 1: arguments against will be used, and will gratefully strengthen the

856
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: arguments against cigarettes and the legislative holes of the States.

857
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: I hope you will consider this carefully and appreciate my

858
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: side of the question. It would please me very much

859
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: to know that a change has been made. Duke does

860
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: not make a change. He is fined with it um

861
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: So Duke is obviously not going to turn his back

862
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: on all of this money because of simple morality. Instead,

863
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: he publishes advertising that encourages kids to complete sets of

864
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: trading cards, and he expands his advertising budget to keep

865
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: a steady stream of new collectibles going out with his cigarettes.

866
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: It was a stunning success, and, as Alan Brandt notes, quote,

867
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: this commodity connected collecting was a lasting innovation that continues

868
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: today with baseball cards and Pokemon. Duke had discovered important

869
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 1: incentives for smoking in the cultural rit rules of youth.

870
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: We owe pokemon to cigarettes. That's a redible Yeah. Yeah,

871
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: I'm just imagine buying a pack of mulgraves to see

872
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: him like a scourish, a shiny char milion or something. Honestly,

873
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: what about our culture wouldn't be better if, like, in

874
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: order to get a magic the gathering deck, you had

875
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: to smoke three entire cartons of pall moss. Yeah. I

876
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: love that. It's just It's like the happy meal of cigarettes.

877
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: It's great, it's perfect. Just me. It like some nerdy

878
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: sixteen year old like lying on his side like puking

879
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: as he smokes his fiftieth cigarette of the day. I

880
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: need a lightning bolt card trying to evolve his Peaka

881
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: you get dyes of smoking inhalation trying to get a bulbasore.

882
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: I choose you lung cancer. Now you know what else

883
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: will give you lung cancer? James? Is it the cigarettes?

884
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: And Sophie saying to childre behind the it is. It

885
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: is the cigarettes that Sophie's sells to children behind the

886
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: school are very likely to cause cancer. But you know

887
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: that's the way it works. Okay, Ah, God, aren't we

888
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: living well today? What a beautiful world we have in

889
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: this America that I love? How are you all, Sophie?

890
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm just thoroughly disappointed in your actions? What else is new? Well, Sophie,

891
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: you know what I'm not disappointed by is the innovative

892
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: thought leaders in big tobacco building the modern world and

893
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: inventing pokemon. So Duke understood and Sting satively, the children

894
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: were the future of cigarettes. Established tobacco consumers had already

895
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: had their preferences like set for plug tobacco or snuff,

896
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: or for pipe tobacco or cigars, and these methods involved

897
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: less consumption or at least pickier consumers. Cigarettes smoked quickly

898
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 1: and more conveniently than other tobacco products, and they caused

899
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: less mess. There were also more addictive which allowed for

900
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: a quick and repeatable high anytime. Again, most people were

901
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: chewing tobacco prior to this, so if people start smoking

902
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: instead of chewing, suddenly you don't have buckets of spit

903
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: all over the place. Again, probably a net positive. Um.

904
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: Now that said, you also have like more people smoking

905
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: in public places, which is a negative. But anyway. The

906
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: New York Times publish as an article at the time

907
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: that complains about Duke's attempt to entice boys to excessive

908
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: cigarette smoking, and notes every possible device has been employed

909
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: to interest the juvenile mind, notably the lithograph album Youngsters

910
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: seeking These picture books climbing for the reward of self

911
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,240
Speaker 1: inflicted injury. Many a boy under twelve years is sting

912
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 1: for the entire collection, which necessitates the consumption of nearly

913
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: twelve thousand cigarettes. You're like trying to collect these picture

914
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: books and smoking twelve thous cigarettes. That is how you

915
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: catch your mole. Oh that is a rough music set

916
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: of cigarettes. Yeah, that's a cigarettes that wow, Yeah that

917
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: is that is an outrageous quantity of cigarettes. Um. Duken

918
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: just hit a hop on a baller way to move cigarettes.

919
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: He'd effectively invented the concept of collectible products as advertisements.

920
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 1: He starts doing like sweep steaks right where you collect,

921
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, different things that are on the boxes to

922
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: turn them in if to see if you can win

923
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: like a prize, and it's he also just like gives stuff.

924
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: So basically everything from how McDonald's happy Meals and like

925
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: Funko pops to every product sweepstakes you've ever seen are

926
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: all descendants of what Duke is inventing in this period,

927
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: which is just like different way is to get cigarettes

928
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: and kids mouths. Um, we like all the entire toolbox

929
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: of capitalism is being created. It's being created to push

930
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 1: cigarettes to children. Duke changed his company's name to American Tobacco,

931
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: which reflected his ambition to be the alpha and omega

932
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: of tobacco sales and production in the United States. He

933
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: poured unheard of amounts of money into his ad budget,

934
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: soon spending nearly a quarter of the money he made

935
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: on sales on ads. His competitors were forced to pour

936
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: similar amounts of cash into their own efforts, igniting the

937
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: first National billboard War and leading to a massive surge

938
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: in the amount of visual advertising in the United States.

939
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: This is what starts to fill the country side up

940
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: with ads with like billboards and other kinds of big

941
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: public ads. Is Duke spending all this money on cigarette ads? Wow?

942
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: So he inadverts? Gave us the monkey Wrench Gang. Yeah,

943
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: so he has. He has in the space of what

944
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: we've talked about so far, given us like modern patent

945
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: law and all of the people that get killed as

946
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: a result of my medical device patents. He's given us

947
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: trading cards. He's given us like sweepstakes and like toy collecting. Uh.

948
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: And he's given us uh fucking billboards and the monkey

949
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: Rinch Gang. So that's that's a lot for one guy

950
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: to make it real makes back now one of the

951
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: things that this does, he's made it impossible very close

952
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 1: to impossible for new companies to get into the cigarette business.

953
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: Number one, you have to be able to buy a

954
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: cigarette machine to be profitable, and that costs money. Number two,

955
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: you have to have a shipload of cash to make ads.

956
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: So just like some young like upstart who wants to

957
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: sell cigarettes to people, isn't gonna be able to get

958
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: into the business unless they're backed by some serious moneyed interests,

959
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: because it's just too expensive to get into it. From

960
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: the late eighteen eighties, Duke sent out regular feelers to

961
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: his competitors asking if they'd be open to a buy out.

962
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: Most of them turned him down, but as the eighteen

963
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: hundreds drew to a close, the fortunes of Duke and

964
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: his competitors, The fortunes that Duke and his competitors were

965
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: throwing into ads had them all looking for a better way.

966
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: They're just spending too much damn money competing with each other.

967
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: In January of eighteen ninety, Duke strong armed his fellow

968
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: tobacco lords to join a consortium, the American Tobacco Company,

969
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: which would seek to monopolize not just tobacco sold in

970
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: the United States, but produced as well. Overnight, the American

971
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: Tobacco Company was responsible for of all cigarettes sales in

972
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: the United States. Duke had formed a monopoly, getting his

973
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: competitors to agree to fix prices and wages in order

974
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: to save money on advertising and production and to avoid

975
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: the struggles for dominance that had devoured their money in

976
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: recent years. This was a winning strategy, and as Duke

977
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: took total control over the tobacco market, prices fell for consumers,

978
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: but this also meant a lot less money for farmers,

979
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: and the Trust brought it into competitive bidding for tobacco harvests,

980
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 1: as Alan Brandt makes clear, and a single minded quest

981
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: to control the future of tobacco, Duke helped invent the

982
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: modern concept of Omega Corporation, blazing a trail that would

983
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: be followed by every ambitious capitalist to come quote. Together,

984
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: these three departments Audit, which over saw accounting and cost control,

985
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 1: leaf and retail markets, assured the movement of cured tobacco

986
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: from warehouse to factory to sales. Individuals with specific expertise

987
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 1: head at each department. The Audit department, for example, introduced

988
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: innovative accounting procedures that would later be utilized by many

989
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: other industries. The successive Duke's enterprise, which became a model

990
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: for other industries, rested on salaried executives who could assure

991
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: the efficient functioning of their aspect of the business, as

992
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: well as tight coordination with other departments and activities. In short,

993
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: he invented the middle manager. Just another wonderful contribution to society.

994
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: He's really just humming along here creating the modern world. Yeah,

995
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: he's taking him off now. One of the things that

996
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: you know when you invent the middle manager, one of

997
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: the things that you've done is you've created the concept

998
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: that's going to make up most of the ranks of

999
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: the emerging middle class. Right what what are a lot

1000
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: of people in the middle class, their fucking middle managers, right, um,

1001
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: which is also a lot of the people who are

1002
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: going to be tobacco consumers. Right. He's helping to create

1003
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: the basis of consumer culture here as he builds effectively

1004
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: helps to like build the idea of a kind of

1005
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: new class structure in a lot of ways. Obviously, like

1006
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: middle management had existed before, but not in the kind

1007
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 1: of quantity that it had because prior to Duke, you've

1008
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: got a lot of tobacco being made and sold and

1009
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: you've got a different sort of tobacco companies, middle managers.

1010
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: But the companies are all much smaller, and it's like

1011
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: this company we handle production. This company like we we

1012
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: handle like we get the tobacco from the farmers and

1013
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: we process it. You know, we're the people who roll

1014
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: it and sell it directly to the consumers. He's rolling

1015
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: all of this into one giant venture, and instead of

1016
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: the constituent parts being made up of small business owners,

1017
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: the constituent parts are are managed by middle managers who

1018
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,720
Speaker 1: are operating like rungs inside of this larger corporate structure.

1019
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: That's not he's not the first guy to do this,

1020
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: but he's the first guy to do this and be

1021
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: this successful with it. Yeah. It so it's a convertically

1022
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: integrated supplied Jane right, exactly exactly. Uh so that's pretty cool. Um.

1023
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: Everywhere he cut out independent manufacturers and free agents, small reseilers,

1024
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: and rollers. The entire tobacco market went from an artisanal

1025
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: industry with strong unions to a vast factory for the

1026
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: production of identical machine rolled cigarettes. The only piece of

1027
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: the tobacco business that successfully resisted and that maintained its

1028
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: high level of unionization were cigars, which, for whatever reason

1029
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: are kind of immune to modernity. Yeah, he deemed me.

1030
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: I've just realized that this guy is like Jeff Bezos's,

1031
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: he's the Bezos of cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which Jeff Bezos,

1032
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'd love to be the Besis and cigarettes,

1033
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: along with being Bezos almost everything out. So it's a

1034
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: great thing to be the Bezos of um. So kudos

1035
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: to cigars for being respect Yeah, respect to the cigar

1036
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: industry for fighting back against this um. But obviously Duke

1037
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: barely notices that, like he's you know, losing out on

1038
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: this chunk of the business. Uh. He tells his board that, quote,

1039
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: the world is now our market for our product. And

1040
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen o two he sets upon the goal of

1041
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: getting the world to start adopting cigarettes. He signs a

1042
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: deal with his largest foreign rival, the UK's Imperial Tobacco,

1043
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: and they form the British American Tobacco Corporation. Of course,

1044
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: that's when the British one's called yes, and they do.

1045
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: They're doing a tobacco imperialism, right. They're going out with

1046
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: the goal of convincing people, nations who had never smoked

1047
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: to smoke now and Jordan Goodman, the author of Tobacco

1048
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: and History, notes to him, every cigarette was the same.

1049
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: All of the globalization that we are now familiar with

1050
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: through McDonald's and Starbucks, all of that was preceded by

1051
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: Duke and the cigarette. So not only is he getting

1052
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: people hooked on cigarettes, he's getting them hooked on the

1053
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: idea of this is a product that comes under a

1054
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: specific brand, and everyone in the world consumes the same

1055
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: product the same way. Right that you know, you may

1056
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: you may be if your cigarette smoker in Turkey in

1057
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: the early cigarette smoker in France, as cigarette smoker in

1058
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: the United dates, you are smoking something that was rolled

1059
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: down the street from you at a shop, right, and

1060
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: probably tobacco that was grown fairly close to you. There's

1061
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: a little bit of movement around then around the world,

1062
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: but generally speaking you're consuming a local product because everything

1063
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: is pretty local. He has invented the idea that no, no, no,

1064
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: if you're going to be into cigarettes, you're gonna smoke

1065
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: this specific kind of cigarette and everyone on Earth does

1066
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: it the same way. Wow. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. It's like, yeah,

1067
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: he's now more or less invented like the global commodity right, yeah, yeah,

1068
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,479
Speaker 1: this is like it's it's one of the very first yeah,

1069
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: um and probably the first, I think the first that's

1070
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: like an individual consumer good, right, because this is starting

1071
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: to happen with like steel and with fuel and stuff. Right.

1072
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: But you as an individual are like going down to

1073
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: the store to pick up you know, some fucking patrole eum,

1074
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: some cold generally, but you're gonna go down and get

1075
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: a cigarette that's made by the British American company every day,

1076
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: whether you live in fucking Tokyo or or tim Buck two. Um.

1077
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: It hasn't spread quite that far yet, but that this

1078
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: is what's going to happen. Right. By nineteen o four,

1079
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: cigarettes had finally cracked five percent of the American market

1080
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: for tobacco products. That seems small, but that means it's

1081
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: more than doubled in a couple of years. Duke saw

1082
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: them as the smart, smart product to push, but he'd

1083
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: spent several years cornering the markets on plug and pipe

1084
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,439
Speaker 1: tobacco too, so they're selling everything. It's also worth noting

1085
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: that like Duke is a cigar man himself, he does

1086
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: not understand why people like cigarettes. He does not like cigarettes.

1087
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: He just is betting that they're going to be a

1088
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: big deal, right, perfect. Um, So the you know, before

1089
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: he can kind of take this idea further though, the

1090
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: United States Congress starts looking into his tobacco trust, which is,

1091
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, what he's made with American tobacco. He's formed

1092
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: a monopoly, and they decide it's in violation of the

1093
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: Sherman Anti Trust Act, which had also been created in

1094
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: eight Now, it took the government a while to actually

1095
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: get to American tobacco, and by the time it starts

1096
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: looking into things, American tobacco controls not just of the

1097
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: cigarette trade, but seventy five of old tobacco sold in

1098
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: the United States. Du could even recently started buying up

1099
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: companies who were producing liquorice paste to make sweeter flavored cigarettes.

1100
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: So he's again a fucking trailblazer. Yeah, yeah, no, trail

1101
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: in a great direction. Necessarily maybe not in the best direction.

1102
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: But you can't you can't deny the man knows what

1103
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: he's doing. This is a dude who loves to make

1104
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: How rich was this guy? I mean, it doesn't try

1105
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: because if you if you actually translate it, it's just

1106
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: gonna wind up being in the tens of millions, which

1107
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: makes it like, effectively he's a billionaire in his stay right,

1108
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: like for everything that matters, you know, he has he

1109
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: has infinity dollars. You do have to think of how

1110
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: different would the world be if we've just given him

1111
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: Twitter and he could have done an Elon Musk and

1112
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 1: stole the war in Ukraine instead of inventing new ways

1113
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: to give kids. This new cigarette's gonna work as a

1114
01:01:53,680 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: boat briefly. So this puts Duke about twenty years ahead

1115
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: of the invention of the first menthal cigarettes. And we're

1116
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: not going to talk a lot about this, but I

1117
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 1: have to let you know that mental cigarettes are invented

1118
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: by a man named Lloyd spud Hughes. Very funny, very

1119
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: funny name. Um. So Duke is like a generation ahead

1120
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: of the competition. But that's not enough to protect him

1121
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: from the Department of Justice, which, and this is weird,

1122
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: used to actually punish corporations for monopolistic behavior. This was

1123
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: the thing you could get in trouble for. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1124
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: Rubber coming out and supporting the DJ Yeah, they well

1125
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,919
Speaker 1: they don't do a good job of this, so I'm

1126
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: not supportive, but it is more than they try to

1127
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: do today, I'm more familiar with the not doing a

1128
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: good job part. Yeah. Well, so during this period, the

1129
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: d o J is going after the three largest businesses

1130
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: in the United States for monopolistic behavior. And the three

1131
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: largest businesses in the United States are Standard Oil, U

1132
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: S Steel, and American Tobacco. Again, to understand the scale

1133
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: of this, the thing that he has built is as

1134
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: big as the oil and gas industry, right, like it's

1135
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: the steel industry. It's in that ballpark. Yeah, impressively, not great. Yeah,

1136
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: So Teddy Roosevelt, the trustbuster, forces the d o J

1137
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: uh to go after Duke. Yeah, that's what that's what

1138
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: he's doing. He's busting trees. Well, there's a lot of

1139
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: funny coming out of your mouth. There's a lot of

1140
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: things that we have to dislike Teddy Roosevelt for, but

1141
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: one thing the man legitimately hated was monopolies, and he

1142
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: goes after them. There were there were a lot of

1143
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: more problematic things than Teddy Roosevelt hated, but in this case,

1144
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: he's broadly speaking, doing the right thing. Uh. And and

1145
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: the d o J is like, yeah, you've you've made

1146
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: a monopoly. This is not legal and you have to

1147
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: dismantle American Tobacco. Now, this is impossible because Duke is

1148
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: vertically into graded it to such a degree that everyone

1149
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: is reliant upon the same supply and distribution change. You

1150
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: can't actually split the companies back up the way they've

1151
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: been fifteen years before. So the d o J, not

1152
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: wanting to destroy one of the three largest businesses in

1153
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: the US, exempts a bunch of their sub businesses and

1154
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: their international partnerships and like, allows them to maintain certain

1155
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: supply chains and whatnot. Uh. And obviously while this is

1156
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: going on, American Tobacco appeals. The Supreme Court rules against

1157
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: them in nineteen eleven, and eventually they do split the

1158
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: trust up into five companies that are technically independent competing businesses.

1159
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: But as the Cigarette Century makes clear, after all the

1160
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: Duke had done to weave the companies together, they can't

1161
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: actually be cut apart. Quote. The settlement was meant to

1162
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: a share competition among the five newly constituted companies. Each

1163
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: received factories, distribution and storage facilities, and name brands, But

1164
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: given the size and complexity of the business, there existed

1165
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: in superable obstacles to the creation of perfect competitive conditions.

1166
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: No matter the industry was restructured, there simply was no

1167
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: going back. So Duke continues to run this chunk of

1168
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: American tobacco. Uh, it remains in his control. British American

1169
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: tobacco is what remains in his control. Uh, and his

1170
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: fellow owners, even though they're all competing, continue to collude

1171
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: to fix prices in order to maximize profits. So he's

1172
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: it's not as bad, but they've gone from a monopoly

1173
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: to an oligopoly. Right, that's that's that's what the d

1174
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: o J succeeds in actually doing. Great job. And since

1175
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: his he's kind of peaked as a cigarette man, Duke

1176
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: moves over to the power industry. He establishes a power

1177
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: company that provides Yeah, he builds, his company builds the

1178
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: electrical grid for North and South Carolina. Just stop, he cannot.

1179
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 1: He he does. When he gets old and is about

1180
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: to die, he gives most of his fortune tens of

1181
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 1: millions of dollars to Trinity College and Durham which is

1182
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: renamed Duke University in his honor. And that's and that's

1183
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: where we get Duke University. Yeah, didn't they're coming yet,

1184
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: great man. They have a good public health school. Now yes, yes, yeah,

1185
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: well they honestly a lot of the best information about

1186
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: the cigarette industry and all of the fund up ship

1187
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: it did comes from Duke University. They have great resources

1188
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: for understanding tobacco an fritasity. Yeah, so, I mean to

1189
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: to the university's credit, they don't like shy away from

1190
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: the But also what look, Duke is immoral because he's

1191
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: a capitalist and he is profiting off of people's surplus

1192
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: labor in in a number of ways that are unethical.

1193
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with him selling cigarettes at this point

1194
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: because he has no he dies in nineteen there is

1195
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: no nothing that even approaches a medical consensus about cigarettes

1196
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: and cancer. At this point. You can't blame it on him, right,

1197
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: He's doing horrific ship, and there will people who work

1198
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: for him, I'm sure, absolutely, like destroying unions and whatnot,

1199
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: and and and there's like a bunch that's unethical. But

1200
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: the fact that he's selling cigarettes is not something that

1201
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: I would put on his soul because you know, there's

1202
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: no no way for him to have known that were harmful,

1203
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: you know. Um. In nineteen nineteen, a US surgical student

1204
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 1: named Alton Oschner was called along with several of his

1205
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 1: peers to observe the autopsy of a lung cancer victim.

1206
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: His teacher was excited to have an example of the

1207
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: rare illness in their operating theater. He wanted Alton and

1208
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: his fellow students to see the autopsy because he believed

1209
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: they would not get a second chance to do so.

1210
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: You guys gotta check this out. You never got to

1211
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: see another lung cancer. Nobody gets this ship less than

1212
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: the Thirty years later, lung cancer would be the number

1213
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: one cause of death in the United States. As Robert

1214
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: Proctor of Stanford University told one interviewer, the cigarette is

1215
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: the deadliest artifact in the history of human civilization. It

1216
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: killed about a hundred million people in the twentieth century twice.

1217
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: And honestly, he's probably low balling it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1218
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: and it's before you look at Yeah, this sort of

1219
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: downstream things. Jesus Christ, that is that is quite an adult. Yeah,

1220
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: we can Luke University. We can argue about fascism and

1221
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 1: communism and the things the great leap forward in the

1222
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: SINGLESM what what killed the most people? But man, nobody's

1223
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: nobody's touching the cigarettes. Numbers it's right, the cigarettes out

1224
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 1: here dropping three pointers every shot. It's the goat of

1225
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: killing people. I'm eagerly awaiting Michael Tracy to like go

1226
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: recuperate the cigarettes's reputation on Twitter or something. Yeah, so, James,

1227
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 1: you got anything you want to plug before we roll out? Afar?

1228
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: I do another podcast, you do too, sometimes it could

1229
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 1: happen here to listen to him. It's about how things

1230
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: are falling apart and people are putting them back together.

1231
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: It's a good podcast. It is a good podcast. Yeah.

1232
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:55,959
Speaker 1: I would say it's one of the only two podcasts

1233
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: that should be legal. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And if

1234
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: we're doing basically what he did with cigarettes, but to podcasts,

1235
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 1: and very slowly we're we're stealing all the microphones and

1236
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: giving everyone cants and I mean hopefully going to kill

1237
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: a hundred million people of course of the century. It's

1238
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: it's that's not yeah, and see you've plad your goals.

1239
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah we do. We do have a live show if

1240
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: you survive that long. Yeah, it's but I think it's

1241
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: over twenty six in October. Yeah, that's it. We sit

1242
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: and everything. Um so check that ship out, motherfucker. Um

1243
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 1: buy tickets to the live show, and uh, look great.

1244
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you you should smoke cigarettes,

1245
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:52,600
Speaker 1: but have you ever tried okay, smooth, flavorful taste of

1246
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 1: a camel. It's like driving through the desert in early November,

1247
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: you know, when you've just got that your dry. We're

1248
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:08,759
Speaker 1: just taking in a Marlborough red. Oh god, the flavor country.

1249
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: That's what people are missing today, Sophie. Do you know

1250
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: how few Gin's ears have been the flavor country. That's

1251
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:23,560
Speaker 1: their heritage, Sophie, that's their heritage. Stop it alright. This

1252
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: is not cash money. Pick up, pick up some cigarettes, kids.

1253
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: It very much has cash money. Behind the Bastards is

1254
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool

1255
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

1256
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

1257
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.