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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: It's been two weeks since our mom was taken, and

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to come on and say that we

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Speaker 2: still have hope and we still believe, and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to say to whoever has her or knows where she is,

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Speaker 2: that it's never too late, and you're not lost or alone,

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Speaker 2: and it is never too late to do the right thing.

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Speaker 2: And we are here. We believe, and we believe in

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Speaker 2: the essential goodness of every human being. And it's stubber

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Speaker 2: two y.

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Speaker 3: A man claiming to know who kidnapped Nancy Guthrie and

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Speaker 3: her current location reaches out to TMZ for the fourth time,

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Speaker 3: still demanding fifty thousand in Bitcoin up front then he

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Speaker 3: will provide the information. The email is using the same

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Speaker 3: Bitcoin account as previous emails and says in part, I

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Speaker 3: know what I saw five days ago south of the border,

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Speaker 3: and I was told to shut up, so I know

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Speaker 3: who he is and that was definitely Nancy with them.

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Speaker 3: This is now the second time the rat has suggested

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Speaker 3: there is more than one person involved in the kidnapping.

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Speaker 3: Also in his previous missive he said quote be prepared

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Speaker 3: to go international. The man says he has a burglary

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Speaker 3: on his record from ten years ago, so he's scared

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Speaker 3: to come forward, presumably fearing he'd be implicated. TMZ replies

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Speaker 3: directly to the individual with an offer, if you are

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Speaker 3: for real, send us the information regarding the whereabouts of

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Speaker 3: Nancy and her kidnappers. We will immediately forward the information

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Speaker 3: to the FBI. If it leads to finding Nancy and

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Speaker 3: or the kidnappers, you then have a public record that

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Speaker 3: you are the one responsible, thus ensuring you will get

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Speaker 3: the reward. The FBI is aware we are making this overture.

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Speaker 3: This is the second note received by TMZ after the

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Speaker 3: rat said there would be no more communication.

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Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie missing day six Daine and that plea from

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Speaker 4: our friend Savannah Guthrie the most heartbreaking plea as of tonight,

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Speaker 4: good evening. I mean, see Grace, this is crimes to

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Speaker 4: I want to thank you for being with us. Savannah Guthrie,

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Speaker 4: beaten down, exhausted, obviously not eating, appeals to the essential goodness.

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Speaker 4: She says that is in every human being, begging them

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Speaker 4: it's not too late to do the right thing, stating

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Speaker 4: obviously stating she believes her mother, Nancy is alive. Also

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Speaker 4: at this hour, breaking developments over the last weekend, over

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Speaker 4: the last day, straight out to Dave Matt Crime Story's

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Speaker 4: investigative reporter, d NA, tell me everything.

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Speaker 5: All right, starting at the beginning, Nancy. DNA found at

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Speaker 5: Nancy Guthrie's home has been determined to belong to someone

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Speaker 5: not in close contact with Nancy Guthrie. This is explosive

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Speaker 5: information as it's the first indicator we have that DNA

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Speaker 5: belonging to someone not related, not in close contact with Nancy,

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Speaker 5: found at the home Nancy. We also have the glove,

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Speaker 5: the glove found about a mile and a half from

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Speaker 5: Nancy's home, that too is being tested, and that too

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Speaker 5: has male DNA. The glove with the DNA looks like

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Speaker 5: what the glove we saw in the surveillance video from

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Speaker 5: the nest camera on Nancy Guthrie's front door. That glove

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Speaker 5: that we saw in that video is what appears to

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Speaker 5: be the glove found in the desert a mile and

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Speaker 5: a half from her home with DNA. So those are

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Speaker 5: your two big DNA explosions right now in the investigation.

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Speaker 4: That's right. The glove found near Nancy Guthrie's home about

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Speaker 4: one point five miles from her home does contain DNA evidence.

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Speaker 4: All those so called experts claiming it would not contain

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Speaker 4: DNA are wrong. Also, the glove found with DNA evidence

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Speaker 4: on it appears to be what the suspect in the

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Speaker 4: video was wearing. According to the FBI, the black glove

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Speaker 4: found near Nancy Guthrie's home contains DNA evidence and it

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Speaker 4: is being tested. We could be hours away from that

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Speaker 4: DNA match. And again, the FBI says, the glove appears

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Speaker 4: to match the gloves worn by the suspect on Nancy

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Speaker 4: Guthrie's porch. This guy we're showing you right now, the

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Speaker 4: one with the DNA profile recovered is different from other gloves.

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Speaker 4: What does that mean that it is different from other gloves?

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Speaker 2: Day, Mac?

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Speaker 4: What other gloves?

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Speaker 5: Nancy? There have been reportedly sixteen other gloves, maybe even more,

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Speaker 5: that have been found in this investigation. But Nancy, the

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Speaker 5: sixteen gloves that have been found range in different colors,

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Speaker 5: from red to brown to black. They range in the

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Speaker 5: different types of gloves that are available.

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Speaker 4: Straight out to veteran trial lawyer Josh Colsrue joining US

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Speaker 4: now criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, founder Cultured Law

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Speaker 4: Offices he's joining us from that jurisdiction Arizona. Josh. In

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Speaker 4: my mind, I had leaped forward to a potential trial.

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Speaker 4: What a field day the defense will have with these

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Speaker 4: sixteen gloves that are unrelated to the on the front porch,

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Speaker 4: Because just as the defense was going to do in

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Speaker 4: the Brian Coburger case, with the glove laying out in

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Speaker 4: the parking lot, it's snowing, somebody dropped their glove out there.

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Speaker 4: That was going to be the sod some other dude

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Speaker 4: that did it right, So I'm happy. I'm thrilled we

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Speaker 4: found a glove that seems to match the one, and

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Speaker 4: you and I talked about it, how sweaty his hands

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Speaker 4: must have gotten during all that, and the scenario of

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Speaker 4: him stripping it off and throwing it out the window

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Speaker 4: as he leaves the scene. But the other gloves are

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Speaker 4: a problem, Coles Rude.

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Speaker 6: They are a huge problem for the prosecution. You know,

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Speaker 6: one of the most important things for a prosecutor is

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Speaker 6: the ability to prove chain of custody, to be able

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Speaker 6: to show that this is the item that we're saying

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Speaker 6: that it is. And when you have I can't believe

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Speaker 6: this sixteen other gloves that were dropped there by volunteers

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Speaker 6: or people working for law enforcement. It's beyond imagination that

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Speaker 6: they could do this and contaminate the crime scene.

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Speaker 4: Straight out to Tammy Ballard joining us. Tammy is a

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Speaker 4: DNA crime scene consultant, crime scene investigation and reconstruction expert

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Speaker 4: important tonight, DNA criminalist for the San Diego Police Crime Lab.

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Speaker 4: Tammy Ballard, this is a bombshell. If these aren't the

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Speaker 4: gloves worn in the video, Let's see the video again,

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Speaker 4: and according to police sources, the part was wearing gloves

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Speaker 4: under the gloves. We don't know that that's true. Whatever

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Speaker 4: the case, DNA has been found on these gloves, Tammy Ballard,

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Speaker 4: and it is mail DNA. What comes next.

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Speaker 7: Next next is the code is search. So that's going

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Speaker 7: to be the important search on it sounds like that's

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Speaker 7: going to happen in real time, something like today, and

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Speaker 7: then they'll know if they have some sort of direction

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Speaker 7: to go with that search if there's a hit. If not,

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Speaker 7: the next step would intuitively be, can we start with

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Speaker 7: the genealogy process and go down that path with a

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Speaker 7: different DNA profile from the same glove. So hopefully it

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Speaker 7: was a single source enough profile that and there's DNA remaining,

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Speaker 7: so that they might have to be able to share

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Speaker 7: that DNA with that second process for genealogy, but it

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Speaker 7: can be a multi pronged approach to identify the individual

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Speaker 7: as fast as possible.

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Speaker 4: Jimmy Baller, what is an st R analysis?

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Speaker 7: That is what I would consider your standard DNA testing

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Speaker 7: most forensic laboratories across the country. That is what we

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Speaker 7: have all used. Stands for short tandem repeat testing, very distinct,

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Speaker 7: regulated validated locations of DNA that are being tested for

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Speaker 7: potential comparison to suspects or uploads into databases.

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Speaker 4: Would this be a short tandem DNA test, a short tandem.

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Speaker 7: Repeat Yes, it is. This is a traditional STR profile.

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Speaker 7: That is what all of the forensic laboratories are using

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Speaker 7: to compare to potential suspects.

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Speaker 4: Okay, then we will take the STR results and put

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Speaker 4: it into CODIS. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons, joining us

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Speaker 4: Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security. His special finding missing people.

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Speaker 4: He leads a team of investigators around the world locating

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Speaker 4: missing people. Who is in CODIS.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so you're going to have everybody in CODIS that

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Speaker 8: law enforcement has had a sample from or you know,

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Speaker 8: the FBI has loaded into that system. So there's going

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Speaker 8: to be a limited I mean, it's a huge, vast

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Speaker 8: number of samples, but it is limited in the sense.

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Speaker 8: And Tammy touched on this that the next step is

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Speaker 8: that forensic genetic genealogy analysis where you're taking in other

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Speaker 8: sources like ancestry, dot Com, twenty three and meters, all

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Speaker 8: those all those private genetic testing organizations where investigators will

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Speaker 8: be able to hopefully try to map.

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Speaker 9: Who this is.

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Speaker 4: Yes, CODA is the combined DNA Index System and an acronism.

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Speaker 4: CODIS is FBI managed. It's software and it operates on local, state,

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Speaker 4: and national DNA databases. It IDs suspects and they do

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Speaker 4: that by comparing convicted offenders, not necessarily just felons, misdemeanors,

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Speaker 4: sometimes two all of them across the country, missing people,

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Speaker 4: and DNA found on crime scenes. Coburger Brian Coburger's DNA

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Speaker 4: is now in CODIS. Now here's the problem with COTIS,

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Speaker 4: and CODIS is fantastic. It matches DNA profiles even from

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Speaker 4: unsolved cases to individuals and other crime scenes. It also

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Speaker 4: uses the twenty core short tandem repeat genetic markers here's

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Speaker 4: the thing. Only people, the only people in CODIS generally speaking,

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Speaker 4: are convicts. So if the perp is not already convicted,

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Speaker 4: then once you put the DNA into CODIS, you may

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Speaker 4: not get an identical match, but you may get an

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Speaker 4: EH match, which would mean the purp is related to

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Speaker 4: the person in CODIS. It could be a brother, a cousin,

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Speaker 4: a dad, a son, a nephew, a distant nephew, a

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Speaker 4: distant cousin. You'll get a quasi match. And that is

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Speaker 4: what happened in Joseph DiAngelo, the Golden State Killer. Once

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Speaker 4: we got a little bit of a we had to

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Speaker 4: go back into genetic genealogy. But right now in CODIS

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Speaker 4: we will get a match of sorts. If there's a

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Speaker 4: relative in CODIS, tammy valor DNA expert, Isn't that true?

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Speaker 7: Yes, it is going to be a different kind of

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Speaker 7: search in the CODIS database. But first and foremost you're

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Speaker 7: going to be comparing that traditional str profile from this

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Speaker 7: unknown male to convicted offenders who's in this database, but

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Speaker 7: also other forensic unknown cases, So samples from other cases

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Speaker 7: that may have identified a potential perpetrator could also be

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Speaker 7: related to this case. So there is more information to

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Speaker 7: glean from that than if you would want to do

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Speaker 7: the familial testing right after that. That's going to be

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Speaker 7: another round of testing and comparison. But again, this laboratory

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Speaker 7: that is doing the work does have that in their wheelhouse,

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Speaker 7: so all of that can happen pretty much now simultaneously

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Speaker 7: if they do want to do a genealogy search with

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Speaker 7: additional type of testing as well. I do want to

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Speaker 7: clarify one thing that we don't put the whole genealogy

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Speaker 7: community in panic zone. But if they do the genails, how.

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Speaker 4: Is this about saying twenty three and may private test

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Speaker 4: las go ahead?

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Speaker 7: Ancestry dot com And there's only a few places that

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Speaker 7: you can actually allow law enforcement to search in the

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Speaker 7: genealogy databasees. That's family Tree, DNA and Jetmatch. So within

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Speaker 7: those two databases the genealogy search can happen for law enforcement.

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Speaker 7: But Ancestry and the other genealogy companies are not allowing

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Speaker 7: law enforcement to search at this time.

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Speaker 4: And as a matter of fact, that was one of

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Speaker 4: the problems in the Brian Coburger case. Certain private genealogical

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Speaker 4: testing labs were used reportedly, which would have opened up

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Speaker 4: a whole can of worms. What this means is that,

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Speaker 4: for instance, if you do twenty three and meters, you

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Speaker 4: don't agree to have your DNA out there to be

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Speaker 4: used in criminal testing or any other testing. So it's

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Speaker 4: a privacy issue for everyone that uses the website. That said,

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Speaker 4: first to codis and then to genetic genealogy, and again

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Speaker 4: that is how one of the worst killers was brought

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Speaker 4: to justice, a former cop, Joseph DiAngelo, the Golden State Killer,

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Speaker 4: through genetic genealogy.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 4: So we've got the glove, you've got a contaminated crime

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Speaker 4: scene which is out in the open. By the way,

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Speaker 4: sixteen gloves that we know of were found. Many of

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Speaker 4: those could have been tossed by anybody, not a searcher,

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Speaker 4: but maybe a searcher. This as we understand, a pool

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Speaker 4: cleaning crew was allowed on the scene. It never ends

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Speaker 4: with the scene being open. That said, there was another

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Speaker 4: bust on Friday night. What happened, Dave.

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Speaker 5: Matt Friday night, Nancy two separate locations, Okay, Pema County

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Speaker 5: Sheriff's deputies and the FBI conducted this massive late night

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Speaker 5: swat operation just before midnight. We've got swat descending on

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Speaker 5: a home in Tucson, and they get three people detained,

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Speaker 5: two guys and their mom apparently. But while this is

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Speaker 5: going on, the SWAT team at the house about two

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Speaker 5: miles from Nancy Guthrie's home, the FBI has a range

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Speaker 5: Rover pulled over in a parking lot of a restaurant.

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Speaker 5: That range rover person is also detained. So we've got

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Speaker 5: four people detained at the same time by SWAT and

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Speaker 5: the FBI and deputies. We've got the range rover, a

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Speaker 5: gray range Rover that is searched while officers actually held

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Speaker 5: up like a white sheet blocking the view from cameras

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Speaker 5: to see what they were looking for in the back

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Speaker 5: of that suv, the rain drover, and they actually swarmed

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Speaker 5: in both these locations. They interviewed all three. At the house,

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Speaker 5: they interviewed the rain rover guy and then Nancy. They

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Speaker 5: towed the range Rover away and let everybody go okay.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't like the way you said that,

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Speaker 4: Dave mac I know, guys you're seeing video from our

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Speaker 4: friends at Fox News. I feel and empathize with your

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Speaker 4: Let them go okay, because again after the last catch

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Speaker 4: and release, everybody's hopes were dashed. You think, finally we've

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Speaker 4: caught the per We're gonna find Nancy Guthrie. She's gonna

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Speaker 4: be alive. And then the person's released. Okay, that was Pelozuelos. Carlos, Pelosuelos.

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Speaker 4: Now we've got neighbors about a mile ish away from

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Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie's home. There was a big bust. The swat

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Speaker 4: team rolled out, the armored vehicles rolled out. We thought, okay,

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Speaker 4: now it's going to be solved. We're going to finance,

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Speaker 4: you go through your life, and they were released. Another

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Speaker 4: catch and released. I hear your disappointment, but straight out

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Speaker 4: to Scott Iiker, joining US digital forensics expert, founding member

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Speaker 4: of the FBI Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team FBI twenty

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Speaker 4: two years, former police officer homicide with Norfolk, Virginia PD

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Speaker 4: and currently at Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, thank you for

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Speaker 4: being with us tonight. This is how I think they're

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Speaker 4: zoning in on A Palazuela's and b those detained over

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Speaker 4: the weekend that have now been released through cell phone

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Speaker 4: data explain.

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Speaker 10: In these cases, we do a tower dump where we're

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Speaker 10: getting probably thousands of phones that might have been in

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Speaker 10: that area around the time Nancy goth You went missing.

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Speaker 10: So we're now finally starting to get through all that data,

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Speaker 10: trying to figure out which ones are normally there, like neighbors,

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Speaker 10: and which ones may have been passing through. And then

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Speaker 10: once you get the phone number, then you have to

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Speaker 10: figure out, all right, who's actually using this phone number?

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Speaker 10: Is it a fake name on the subscriber? So then

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Speaker 10: you have to figure out, all right, where may that

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Speaker 10: phone be? And I suspect that these are these stops

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Speaker 10: of the last couple of you are just talking about,

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Speaker 10: are results of either LPRs or phones being in the area.

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Speaker 10: Now they're just trying to track it down, see who's

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Speaker 10: actually using those phones and if they're really related to

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Speaker 10: the Nancy Guthrie case.

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Speaker 4: This as we learn FBI, they must have been watching

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Speaker 4: crime stories because as soon as the front Porch video

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Speaker 4: was released, our awesome staff in New York, Atlanta, Texas

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Speaker 4: and beyond got together and realized that the backpack was

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Speaker 4: an Ozark from Walmart. With then I would say an

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Speaker 4: hour of seeing it, Angelica and others had identified it also.

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Speaker 4: They identified our staff identified the jacket we believe coming

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Speaker 4: from Walmart, and even the ski mask. But now everybody,

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Speaker 4: you're validated law enforcement revealing the clothes worn by the

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Speaker 4: front porch perp were bought at Walmart, were bought at Walmart. Okay,

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Speaker 4: to icher again, I will never forget watching Top Mom

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Speaker 4: Casey Anthony one either Walmart or Target video buying beer

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Speaker 4: in a pushup bra while her daughter Kille was missing.

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Speaker 4: And it's happened in so many cases I can't even

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Speaker 4: begin to count them where a perp is caught on video. Man,

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Speaker 4: why don't they always buy a tarp? It's always a

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Speaker 4: tarp and cleaning supplies. That said, what's the next step

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Speaker 4: now that we know these items are bought at Walmart?

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Speaker 10: Once we get that type of information, and we do

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Speaker 10: this with the cell phones too, with burner phones, we

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Speaker 10: backtracked to where those items were purchased so that we

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Speaker 10: can actually hopefully find video of those actual purchases. And

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Speaker 10: as you know, the Walmart's and the targets, they have

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Speaker 10: fantastic video and those are really clear. So that does

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Speaker 10: normally help us to identify who actually had those items

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Speaker 10: to purchase those items, whereas using that south of their device.

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Speaker 4: Don't you know the FBI is pouring through local Walmart video,

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Speaker 4: you said something that pierced my heart. Scott Iiker again,

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Speaker 4: you mentioned that Walmart also sells burner phones. You can

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Speaker 4: identify cell numbers in the area. I think that's how

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Speaker 4: they got Carlos Velozuelos. I think that's why they honed

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Speaker 4: in on the neighbor that has been released because their

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Speaker 4: cell phone is active around the time Nancy Guthrie goes missing,

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Speaker 4: and they've done a data dup and they're isolating phones

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Speaker 4: used in the area in that neighborhood in those hours

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Speaker 4: and then expanding. Burner phones are a particular problem for cast.

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Speaker 4: Explain the problem with burner phones.

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Speaker 10: Well, we all kind of normal citizens have post paid phones.

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Speaker 10: We use the phone and then we pay our bill.

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Speaker 10: But most of the criminal element world uses burner phones

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Speaker 10: or prepaid phones. And when you go into Walmart, you

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Speaker 10: can buy the phone and buy time minutes for that phone,

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Speaker 10: and you don't have to put a name on it

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Speaker 10: because you've already paid the phone company. What they want

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Speaker 10: is their money, so you don't have to put a

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Speaker 10: real name or a real address or anything on there.

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Speaker 10: We've seen bugs Bunny or Roger Rabbit or know anything

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Speaker 10: you want to put in the subscriber information or nothing

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Speaker 10: at all. So then that we have to figure out

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Speaker 10: who actually has that phone and who's using.

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Speaker 4: And that is where the incredible video at Walmart will

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Speaker 4: come in to play. So what are you saying in

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Speaker 4: regular people talk is you can buy a burner phone

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Speaker 4: under any name, not your own, unlike your AT and

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Speaker 4: T or your VZW or your T mobilebile where it's

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Speaker 4: your name and your address. And yeah, you can track

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Speaker 4: that in about a split second a burner phone. No,

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Speaker 4: you have to find out where was the burner phone bought?

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Speaker 4: Was it on a credit card so you can trace

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Speaker 4: the perp? Was it on video? Walmart has great video,

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Speaker 4: NASA co take a lesson from Walmart. That's it. It's

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Speaker 4: a much more in depth process because you could even

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Speaker 4: pay with cash, so you may never know if it

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Speaker 4: weren't for the video. Who bought the burner phone used

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Speaker 4: outside Nancy Guthries' home at the time she was kidnapped. Okay,

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Speaker 4: another thing happened over the weekend, and this is amazing.

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Speaker 4: Dave Mac tell me about the drone search for Nancy

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Speaker 4: Guthries's pacemaker.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, this is something that in reality is an incredible

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Speaker 5: technology tool using a drone that is outfitted to actually

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Speaker 5: locate the Bluetooth signal that is sent from the casemaker

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Speaker 5: back to the Apple Watch. They've been able to fly

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Speaker 5: these drones at low level where they can find these

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Speaker 5: Bluetooth signals, and they've been flying them in a cross

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Speaker 5: grid pattern at low levels all over the Guthrie neighborhood

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Speaker 5: as well as areas of the desert. Yet they began

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Speaker 5: four days out using helicopters flying very low and doing

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Speaker 5: a grid search, and they were also using technology then

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Speaker 5: to try to locate the pacemaker. But the drums take

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Speaker 5: it to a whole new level with different technology that

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Speaker 5: really does zero in specifically on this pacemaker.

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Speaker 1: Bluetobe Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, you know what's interesting here,

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Speaker 1: And let me throw this back to Fitzgibbons.

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Speaker 4: Brian Fitzgibbons, USPA Nationwide Security. A viewer wrote me and said,

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Speaker 4: at the very beginning, why can't they strap a device

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Speaker 4: to a dog, a device that would pick up the

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Speaker 4: frequency of the pacemaker and walk it through the neighborhood,

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Speaker 4: walk it all around the neighborhood and get other dogs

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Speaker 4: with the same for at US and go out and

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Speaker 4: out and out and out, since we are pretty convinced

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Speaker 4: someone that new Nancy Guthrie is responsible for her kidnap.

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Speaker 4: And at first I'm like outfited dog. It wasn't that

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Speaker 4: bad of an idea, and I started thinking about it,

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Speaker 4: and I'm again researching how can you track a pacemaker?

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Speaker 4: All because of what that viewer wrote me. You cannot

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Speaker 4: track a pacemaker in that once it's away from its bluetooth,

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Speaker 4: it's no longer sending information to the doctor's office or

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Speaker 4: the clinic or the hospital. That ends. It doesn't have

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Speaker 4: GPS in it.

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Speaker 7: But the viewer.

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Speaker 4: Wasn't half wrong, she was all right, because they can't

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Speaker 4: be traced through that blue tooth frequency. It may not

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Speaker 4: be connecting to the clinic or the doctor, but it's

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Speaker 4: still emitting. It's brilliant. Fitzgibbons explained to me how they're

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Speaker 4: doing this. How low do the drones have to fly?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so the viewer's logic was spot on right. And

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Speaker 8: this technology has been around for a good amount of

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Speaker 8: time and had a fair degree of success, particularly in

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Speaker 8: search and rescue operations. All right, So these could be

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Speaker 8: used after a natural disaster or you know, a hiker

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Speaker 8: loss in the mountains. You know, the distance is going

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Speaker 8: to vary right anywhere from thirty to hundreds of feet

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Speaker 8: in the air. It's all going to depend on the

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Speaker 8: power of that signal being emitted. So I don't think

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Speaker 8: there's an exact science on the pacemaker and how far

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Speaker 8: the drone would need to be, But what I can

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Speaker 8: tell you is they'll build to zero in on the

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Speaker 8: signal that that pacemaker creates to filter out all the

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Speaker 8: noise because unlike a massive grid search in a remote

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Speaker 8: area that these search and rescue applications are used to,

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Speaker 8: this is flying over populated air is where there's going

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Speaker 8: to be a lot of signal noise that they have

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Speaker 8: to filter out.

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Speaker 4: And Brian, here's the good news about pacemakers. My dad

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Speaker 4: had a pacemaker, my mom has a pacemaker. Everyone's asking

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Speaker 4: what if the battery runs out. Batteries and pacemakers usually

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Speaker 4: last five to fifteen years, with seven to twelve years

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Speaker 4: being the normal time the battery will last. Why because

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Speaker 4: to change a battery in a pacemaker, you actually have

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Speaker 4: to operate. It's probably a simple operation, but you still

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Speaker 4: have to go in. The person has the pacemaker in

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Speaker 4: their chest and you have to change the batteries, so

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Speaker 4: you don't want to do that very often with a

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Speaker 4: heart patient. So the norm is seven to twelve years

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Speaker 4: five at the earliest, fifteen at the longest. So I'm

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Speaker 4: not worried about the battery going out now very quickly.

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Speaker 4: I want to follow up just joining us now special

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Speaker 4: guest doctor Bethany Marshall. She is a renowned psychoanalyst out

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Speaker 4: of Beverly Hills. She's the author of deal Breaker. You

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Speaker 4: can see her now on Peacock and you can find

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Speaker 4: her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany. When I

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Speaker 4: showed that video of Savannah Guthrie, it broke my heart.

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Speaker 4: When I saw it for the first time, I felt

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Speaker 4: nauseous thinking about Savannah. She is so exhausted and she's

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Speaker 4: not giving up.

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Speaker 11: No, she is not Nancy. And she goes out and

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Speaker 11: she makes these statements without the studio lighting, the studio makeup,

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Speaker 11: any of the trappings of her profession which she could

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Speaker 11: use to try to appeal to whoever took her mother.

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Speaker 11: But she is coming out just as herself. And in

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Speaker 11: the very first video Nancy, she keeps using the word you.

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Speaker 11: She's trying to form a relationship with whoever the perpetrator is.

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Speaker 11: And in this one, when she says that she believes

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Speaker 11: that there's goodness in everyone, she's trying to create empathy,

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Speaker 11: that empathy on the part of the perpetrator towards her,

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Speaker 11: towards her family. She's not coming out harsh or angry,

432
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 11: or we're going to come after you, or we're going

433
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 11: to find you. Nothing punitive Nancy. She is soft, she

434
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 11: is engaged, and Nancy I kind of feel like she

435
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 11: might know who she's speaking to. She's looking into somebody's

436
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 11: eyes and heart metaphorically and saying, I know you, you

437
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 11: know me, We are both human beings. Please please bring

438
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 11: my mother back. And she's sort of implying no consequences

439
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 11: as well, which, of course there will be consequences, but

440
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 11: she's also trying to remove fear on the part of

441
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 11: the perpetrator.

442
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: Well, I can tell you this calls rude. I'm going

443
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: to go back to bethany one moment. The consequences will

444
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 4: be a hell of a lot worse if Nancy Guthrie dies.

445
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 6: Absolutely, you know, in Arizona, we certainly have a reputation

446
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 6: for using the death penalty. And this certainly would be

447
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 6: a case that would qualify if she is later found

448
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 6: to have passed away. Now, what's interesting about this case

449
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 6: is that there may be a parallel prosecution. And we've

450
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 6: seen this before in Arizona. In another high profile case,

451
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 6: Senator Mark Kelly, you know, his wife Gabby Giffords was

452
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 6: shot and almost killed along with federal Judge John Roll.

453
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 6: In those two cases, you both had the federal prosecutors

454
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 6: prosecuting at the same time as a state And what

455
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 6: I found really interesting, Nancy, is that on Friday, the

456
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 6: FEDS executed a federal search warrant, not a state search warrant.

457
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 6: And this could be an indication of the friction that

458
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 6: is happening between the Feds and the state, because I'll

459
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 6: tell you I was both a state prosecutor and a

460
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 6: federal prosecutor. When I was on the state side, I

461
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 6: often worked with the FBI and I would craft and

462
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 6: issue the sub penis.

463
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 9: What I would never expect for the same FBI agents

464
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 9: to go to the US Attorney's office to do their

465
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 9: own parallel investigation, cutting me out of it. So, you know,

466
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 9: this is a really interesting development.

467
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 4: Should the sniffer technique.

468
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 5: Have been used earlier.

469
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 6: You know, I have two gripes about this, Nancy. The

470
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 6: first is you know, in any missing person's case, the

471
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 6: most important time to gather and collect evidence is at

472
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 6: the very beginning, and by all reports, this so called

473
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 6: sniffer technology wasn't used for at least two weeks after

474
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 6: Nancy Guthrie was discovered missing. Also, what I don't like

475
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 6: about this move is to tell the public what it's

476
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 6: doing with that type of technology, because you're signaling to

477
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 6: the bad guys that we're.

478
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 9: Looking for your bluetooth devices.

479
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 6: And you know, bad guys have been known to try

480
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 6: to destroy evidence so they don't get caught. And I

481
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 6: would be concerned that this could put Nancy Guthrie in

482
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 6: mortal peril should the bad guys be listening to the

483
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 6: reports on TV.

484
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 4: You know, I want to go back to Scott Iiker,

485
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 4: founding member of CAST. Scott can I see Scott plays?

486
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 4: Is it true that you suggested to CAST the use

487
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 4: of the drones to try to find that bluetooth frequency

488
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 4: being admitted from Nancy's pacemaker.

489
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 10: I actually did send a message to CAST on Saturday,

490
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 10: so two days ago, and I said, hey, has anybody

491
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 10: thought about using the Bluetooth sniffer to go out and

492
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 10: see if they can capture the signal Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker.

493
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 10: They said, well, I don't know, but we'll check and

494
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 10: see if the command post is doing that. And then

495
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 10: the next day it came out on the media that

496
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 10: they were doing that. So I don't know if I

497
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 10: provided them to do that. I have a feeling they

498
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 10: were doing that ahead of time. It just hit me

499
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 10: later on in the investigation. Now, this device I've used before,

500
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 10: it's very short range. I was surprised they were trying

501
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 10: to do it from a helicopter at one point in time.

502
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 10: Definitely vehicles or low flying drones because the distance for Bluetooth,

503
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 10: as you might know, when you walk away from your

504
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 10: phone with your ear uppuds in, it's like thirty forty

505
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 10: feet at the most. So they're going to have to

506
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 10: get really close to this, you know, any Bluetooth device

507
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 10: to be able to grab its signal. So they're going

508
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 10: to have a lot of work. But I think it's

509
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 10: a great tactic to be using.

510
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 4: Well, you know, you're right, because recall we heard at

511
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 4: the beginning once Nancy was twenty feet away from I

512
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 4: think it was twenty feet away from the bluetooth connection.

513
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: The pacemaker information ended to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us.

514
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 4: Doctor Bethany, you mentioned how Savannah was creating a connection

515
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 4: with the perp, evoking empathy. Who would take an eighty

516
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: four year old grandma and use her this way? We

517
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 4: know it's a man. We know it is a Hispanic

518
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 4: mail or a swarthy, olive complexted mail. We know that

519
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: there's facial hair. We know his high between five nine

520
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 4: and five eleven. We know his medium build. But who

521
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 4: is this guy?

522
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 11: Bethany Well, Nancy, He's only the face of the crime.

523
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 11: As Brian Fitzgibbons said on one of the shows, He's

524
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 11: just a foot soldier. He's an amateur Nancy. Multiple gloves,

525
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 11: potentially looks like he has multiple jackets on, potentially a

526
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 11: tarp in his backpack. He does not know that the

527
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 11: camera is there. This is not a very high functioning guy.

528
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 11: Porch Purp is not so putting together the behavioral clues

529
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 11: that you and the panel have been discussing. I wouldn't

530
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 11: be surprised if he went himself to Walmart. He'd have

531
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 11: to make the purchase himself, because he knows his size, jacket, shoe,

532
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 11: glove size, all of that. I wouldn't be surprised to

533
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 11: learn that everything is all on one receipt, even perhaps

534
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 11: the burner phone, so that narrows the search a little bit.

535
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 11: In terms of a non custodial kidnapping, Nancy, normally that

536
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 11: is to control the victim, whether it's a child or

537
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 11: a young adult. In this case, we have a geriatric

538
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 11: person an older person. But for what reason would they

539
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 11: control the victim? Something that has come to mind, Nancy.

540
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 11: And by the way, with the gloves, surprised about the

541
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 11: sixteen gloves because we have websuit sleuths all over the

542
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 11: place out there also searching, interfering and helping, I don't

543
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 11: know which way. And also this guy's wearing multiple gloves potentially,

544
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 11: so I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not surprised to learn

545
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 11: that they're picking up multiple gloves out there. But think

546
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 11: about your mother, Nancy, and how proud she has been

547
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 11: over the years of you having your own TV show.

548
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 11: I'm sure she goes to or I know she's housebound

549
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 11: out but to her doctors, her physical therapists, her nutritionists,

550
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 11: and talking about you and how proud she is of you.

551
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 11: And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's somebody

552
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 11: in Nancy Guthrie's medical community where she frequently visited, and

553
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 11: she would talk about Savannah and all of her kids

554
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 11: and how proud she is of them and how how

555
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 11: wonderful they are, and have you seen my daughter on TV?

556
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 11: And if that didn't incite somebody who's down on their

557
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 11: luck or wanted to control her victim in some way

558
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 11: to say, oh, gosh, this is my way out of

559
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 11: my current financial predicament. But then whoever took her is

560
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 11: not sophisticated enough to find a good way to get

561
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 11: the money. And I think that's the paradox that's confusing everybody.

562
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 11: You take this geriatric person for some purpose, but now

563
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 11: what's the purpose? So they can't implement the purpose? So

564
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 11: where does that put us in terms of this search?

565
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 11: It's somebody who needed her for the purpose, but then

566
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 11: couldn't implement the purpose itself.

567
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 4: Right. Tammy Ballard joining us DNA expert, tell me about

568
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 4: Tammy thino typing and how that could help.

569
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 7: Well, there's biogeographical analysis to give you sort of a

570
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 7: visual aspect from where some of these people could come

571
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 7: from and originate from what their nationality is. That is

572
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 7: testing that is also done pretty much simultaneously when they

573
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 7: test for the genealogy to give somebody a little bit

574
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 7: more of an idea of what a person may look like.

575
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 4: Yes, Phenotyping the process of measuring analyzing physical biochemical traits

576
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 4: of the perp. It identifies traits in biology, medicine, agriculture.

577
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: Deep phenotyping or digital phenotyping is a DNA based prediction

578
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 4: of physical attributes color of hair, do they have freckles,

579
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 4: the pigment of the skin, and so much more. Phenotyping

580
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 4: could be used in this case. It's an additional tool

581
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 4: used by law enforcement and I've seen it work. Joining

582
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 4: us tonight is a PR guru, Rob Shooter, author of

583
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 4: a brand new book that's climbing the charts on Amazon.

584
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 4: It started with a whisper and he's the star of

585
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 4: Naughty but Nice. You can also find him on his substack. Shooter.

586
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 4: Thank you for being with us. The facts are coming

587
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 4: fast and furious, but I want to take a moment

588
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 4: and talk about my friend, your friend Savannah, and this

589
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 4: last plea I got to tell you all of her.

590
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: Please have just like I've been a gut punch, but

591
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 4: this last one, I mean, she's so tired. She's just

592
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 4: trying to get her mom back. What can you tell

593
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 4: us about your recollections of Savannah? I keep saying saying

594
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 4: she's just as nice and wonderful in real life as

595
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 4: she is on the Today Show, But yet online everybody's

596
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 4: hating on her, and I don't really understand that.

597
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 12: Yeah, I've turned that out, Nancy. It's too painful for me.

598
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 12: I've been on the Today Show maybe thirty forty times.

599
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 12: I've known Savannah since she was a correspondent on the show.

600
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 12: When she started that show, she did not start as

601
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 12: the co host. She started as their white house correspondent,

602
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 12: and so I've known her for a really long time.

603
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 12: The last time I was on the show, Savannah interviewed me.

604
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 12: She's the real deal. During commercial breaks, she laughs, she

605
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 12: asks you questions about your life. She remembers details about

606
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 12: your private life. I was had a wedding about six

607
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 12: months ago, and Savannah was at the wedding and we

608
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 12: had a really great catch up there. She's the real deal.

609
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 12: And we've worked in TV, Nancy a long time. It's

610
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 12: not just TV. I think a lot of businesses are

611
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 12: like this. People in the office on television at their

612
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 12: job always normally hopefully put the best version of themselves

613
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 12: and when they leave that job me a little bit frosty,

614
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 12: a little bit prickly. Not Savannah. She was the real deal.

615
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 12: And in New York, I've seen her out in restaurants,

616
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 12: I've seen her out at the theater. She's kind, she's

617
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 12: kind to people, and she's very much aware that she

618
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 12: has the dream job. She always wanted to be a reporter.

619
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 12: She always tried. Her mom encouraged her to do this.

620
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 12: Against all odds, this young reporter ended up hosting the

621
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 12: Today Show, the biggest morning show in the world, certainly

622
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 12: in America, and she never forgot who she was. It

623
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 12: would have been very easy for Savannah when she became

624
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 12: the co host to become a diva. She could have

625
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 12: become a star. We know them, We know people on

626
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 12: TV who act like that. Not Savannah. She was always

627
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 12: nice to the crew, she was always nice to the guests.

628
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 12: It was always nice to the producers. And that's why

629
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 12: this has really been a good punch to everybody at NBC.

630
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 12: Within that building, there are a lot of stinkers. Savannah

631
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 12: is not one of them. She's one of the good people.

632
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 7: You know.

633
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 4: It's really interesting. I'm soaking in every word you said,

634
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 4: Rob Shooter, because I don't get the hate focused on

635
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 4: her at obviously the worst time in her life. She

636
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 4: lost her father when she was sixteen. I remember my

637
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 4: dad had his first caroinary thrombosis when I was sixteen,

638
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 4: and we had my birthday in the hospital and I

639
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 4: got my cross and I remember being afraid I would

640
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 4: lose my dad. She did lose her dad, and now

641
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 4: she's about to lose her mom. So I don't get

642
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 4: the hate. I guess you tell your clients to just

643
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 4: ignore everything online.

644
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, you do. Savannah's got a tough skin for somebody

645
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 12: as kind for somebody, as gentle as she is. She

646
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 12: works in a really tough business, and being on television

647
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 12: every single day in front of millions of people, you

648
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 12: open yourself up to a lot of criticism about what

649
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 12: you say, the way you look, and so she has

650
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 12: done this for a long time. So I'm told at

651
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 12: the moment I spoke to some friends of hers, people

652
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 12: that work with her, she's just focused on family. She's

653
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 12: focused on getting her mom back all that stuff online

654
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 12: that's been there for years, or the hate or the criticism.

655
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 12: I think she's tuning it out because, let's be honest,

656
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 12: she's got a much bigger worry.

657
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 4: I'm sure she doesn't care, just her mom.

658
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 12: But let me sh Rob Sheeter.

659
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 4: This is what I always say, and I don't know

660
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 4: if you, the pr and guru to the stars would agree.

661
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 4: But have you ever called your cable company and said, wow,

662
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 4: you know what, I watch crime Stories tonight on YouTube

663
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 4: and it was awesome and I just want to thank

664
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 4: you for all you did to make that possible. No,

665
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 4: you call the cable company and go, my cable's out,

666
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: big sick, right, a whole horrible I hate you.

667
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 12: Right.

668
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 4: Nobody writes in or calls in good things. It's only

669
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 4: when you have a complaint. So those are the people

670
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 4: trashing Savannah at a time like this. Who are those people? Right?

671
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 12: They're terrible people, Nancy. They're terrible, angry people. And this

672
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 12: is not about Savannah. It's about them. You know, I've

673
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 12: ran many different websites and the comments, eighty percent of

674
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 12: them are really hateful. People don't comment when they want

675
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 12: to say something nice. So let's change that I try

676
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 12: now when I go to a restaurant to leave a

677
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 12: good review on the help instead of just the bad ones.

678
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 12: And so we can change the world if we start.

679
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 4: Thinking somehow, I knew you were going to make this

680
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 4: about you, Rob Sheheter. It all goes back to what

681
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 4: our grandma said, if you can't say anything nice, just

682
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 4: don't say anything at all. I think we all agree

683
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 4: on that, Rob Shoeter. I'm not concerned about what's going

684
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 4: to happen after we find Nancy Guthrie. I'm concerned about

685
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 4: finding Nancy Guthrie. But there's all the speculation brewing about

686
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 4: Savannah leaving the Today Show. That's not my concern right now.

687
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 4: We'll burn that ridge when we get there. But what's

688
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 4: that all about?

689
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 7: Yeah?

690
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 12: The Today Show is a multimillion dollar business. It is

691
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 12: presented as a family, and I believe that that's mainly

692
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 12: true about them. They care about each other over there.

693
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 12: But it is a job, and this is a company

694
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 12: now that is trying to figure out what are they

695
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 12: going to do. It would be irresponsible of the executives

696
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 12: to not have a plan B, to have a safety net.

697
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 12: So there is no date for Savannah to return. My

698
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 12: sources are telling me she might never return to the

699
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 12: Today Show, and she's certainly not going to return until

700
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 12: there's some solution, until there's some answers about her mom.

701
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 12: So Savannah's going to be gone from that show, probably

702
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 12: for the next six months, maybe longer. And so they

703
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 12: are looking at different options and told they're handling it

704
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 12: quite carefully. They don't want to be about contracts or

705
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 12: money or opportunities for thirsty people on staff trying to

706
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 12: get her job. There is a reality to this. When

707
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 12: somebody is away from a show, a lot of people around.

708
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad that you have looked into the Rob Shooter,

709
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 4: Crystal Ball, and you can see that this case will

710
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 4: be over in six months and put away like the

711
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 4: tea service when you're done with your tea. So thank

712
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 4: you for that, Rob Shooter. I'm not concerned about what's

713
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 4: going to happen on a morning TV show. I'm concerned

714
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 4: about finding Nancy Guthrie, and I hope you're wrong. I

715
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 4: hope that Nancy is found and Savannah returns to life

716
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 4: as normal. That's my prayer. Rob Shooter grew to the

717
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 4: stars and author of a brand new book. It started

718
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 4: with a whisper. Thank you for being with us tonight.

719
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 12: Good to be with you, Nancy. And let me just

720
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 12: add here we talk about people on television being generous

721
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 12: and being kind and being authentic, you're the real deal.

722
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 4: Two Dave mac Crime Stories investigative reporter. You've learned something

723
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 4: that I consider to be very probative regarding that polyester holster.

724
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 4: Let's see the holster the perp had on in a

725
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 4: very bizarre manner. Tell me what you've learned about the holster.

726
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's interesting to note, Nancy, that most

727
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 5: of what our perp was wearing from the backpack on

728
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 5: all available exclusively at Walmart stores. But this very unique

729
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 5: cheap holster also available at Walmart. But in Tucson, where

730
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 5: they have more than a dozen Walmart stores, only two

731
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 5: of the Tucson area Walmarts had that holster in stock,

732
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 5: only two out of more than a dozen.

733
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 4: If you know or think you know anything about this case,

734
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 4: whether you consider it to be large, small, inconsequential or not,

735
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 4: please dial toll free eight hundred two two five five

736
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 4: three two four, or if you wish to remain anonymous

737
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 4: five two zero eight eight two seven four six three

738
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 4: There is a one hundred thousand dollars reward. Thank you

739
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 4: to our guest, but especially to you for keeping the

740
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 4: search for Nancy Duthrie alive. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,

741
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 4: but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend,