1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Holly Frye. This week we had our live recorded episode 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: on Jean Stratton Porter from our lap show in Indianapolis. Yes, 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: what a fun time. It was a very fun time. 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: We had very good luck overall in terms of our travel. Yes, 7 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: this show was recorded in that magical awful time where 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: the software glitch caused a lot of problems for a 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: lot of airlines. Yeah, anytime we are planning to travel 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: somewhere for some kind of live show, there's sort of 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: a mental calculation about like how long the flight is, 12 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: what the flights schedule is like, and if we flew 13 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: to the venue on the day there was any kind 14 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: of problem, is there any chance we can still make 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: the show. We've had a number of times we're flying 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: on the day has been fine, especially when we've been 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: like on a tour going from one city to the 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,639 Speaker 1: next city to the next city. Usually we're flying that morning, 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: doing a show that evening next day, do it all 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: over again. People who've been listening to the podcast for 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: a really long time may remember the time that we 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: had a live show to do in Dallas, and our 23 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: flight got diverted to Shreveport. That is the closest to 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: a show not happening that has ever happened to us 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: personally so far. Knock on wood this time. Just the 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: combination of the length of flying, especially from Boston like that. 27 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: There are not a ton of direct flight options into 28 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: Indianapolis from the places that we live, so we each 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: we flew in the night before, Yeah, and then the 30 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: next morning got up and I think the first thing 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: I saw on my phone and was you texting me 32 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: saying I'm glad we flew in last night. And I 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: was like, what is happening right now? And then I 34 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: learned that there was a huge it problem that had 35 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: led to cancelations all over the place. We might have 36 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: still made it if we had flown in on that day, 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: but it would have been really really close, and if 38 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: it had not worked out. The ticketing system at the 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: Historical Society was also affected by the bug. Yes, so 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: for them to and they couldn't email people because that 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: was also effected, right everything, if it had gone, if 42 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: it had not happened, if we had not made it there, Yeah, 43 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: there may have been a lot of people showing up 44 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: to discover that we weren't there. So I'm glad we 45 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: got very I'm glad it worked out as it did. 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: And then the flight holl Mine was early and yours 47 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: was a little late but manageable. Yeah, mine was delayed 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: by like four hours in the end. 49 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 50 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: That didn't bother me a bit. I was sitting there 51 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: eating and having drinks and I just hung out and yeah, 52 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: I kind of had it in my head that might happen, 53 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: So I was not chagrined in the least. It was 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: just fine. Yeah. So yeah, that was that was our 55 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: travel travel experience, traveling on a particularly fraud travel day. 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: Jean Stratton Porter. We made it clear in that episode, uh, 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: that I had a lot of fondness for And then 58 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: got to the part of writing a novel that was 59 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: definitely a product of its time, not clear whether it 60 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: reflected her own personal attitudes or not, but regardless of 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: whether it did reflect her own personal attitudes, like it 62 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: was a novel with a very racist person as the hero, 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: and that sort of tempered my your adoration, my adoration, 64 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: because I really was the whole time I was working 65 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: on it reading her descriptions of the birds and the 66 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: moths and the things that she would do to try 67 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: to get good pictures of the like. I just I 68 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: loved it so much. We did not bring up in 69 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: that episode that a lot of what she wrote about 70 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of what she thought about nature and 71 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: life had a lot in common with the Transcendentalists, and 72 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: the Transcendentalist movement was significantly before her time. Really, a 73 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: lot of those folks were writing long before she was, 74 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: but they were for sure people whose work that she 75 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: knew and referenced and was familiar with. Like there are 76 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: quotes about throw and her various writing stuff like that, 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: And so I kind of went back and forth about 78 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: whether to talk about how she clearly was influenced by 79 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: the Transcendentalist movement, and there was so much other stuff 80 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: already in the episode that I did not wind up 81 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: putting it in there. Yeah, it was a lengthy episode 82 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: to begin with, so you got to make cuts. Yeah, 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: especially when you are doing a live s that is 84 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: scheduled for a certain amount of time, you want to 85 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: still have a few minutes for questions at the end, 86 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: which we did have some questions at the end. Yeah, 87 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: some of the folks who were there were people who 88 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: work at the historical societies or at historical sites that 89 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: are associated specifically with Jeane Stratton Porter places that she lived, 90 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: Limberlost Swamp, all of that. I think they have maybe 91 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: a little bit more insight into her thought process regarding 92 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: her husband. Yeah, and the impression that I got is 93 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 1: sort of in line with what I had concluded without 94 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: getting into a ton of detail, which is that like, 95 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: she definitely had made it clear from the get go 96 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: that she was not going to be like the traditional life, 97 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: right and that if what he wanted was for someone 98 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: to stay home and keep house and raise children, that 99 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: that was not what she was doing. So I like, 100 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: I think think he definitely on that front, knew what 101 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: he was getting into when he married her. I still 102 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: am real foggy though on like the specifics of when 103 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: she moved to California and he didn't like what. I 104 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: can imagine a million different scenarios there, you know, in 105 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: a range of just like he had businesses that he 106 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: had to attend to and couldn't really move at that 107 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: point to her being kind of like I would rather 108 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: go be on my own, don't really know uhh, So 109 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: she tend tend to be very private about a lot 110 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: of her more personal thoughts and feelings on stuff, which 111 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: makes sense given you know, we talked about in the 112 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: episode that she had to move in some cases to 113 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: get away from people showing up on her doorsteps. So like, 114 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: I could completely understand a lockdown situation on any of 115 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: your personal business, yeah, even if it's completely benign. Yeah. 116 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: And we really see the same thing happening today with 117 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: people who become famous in one way or another and 118 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: suddenly have Reddit communities or whatever devoted to dissecting everything 119 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: they say, to look for hidden clues about their personal 120 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: lives and feelings and stuff that is really invasive. And 121 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: I feel like that's something that, like the growth of 122 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: the Internet and the growth of social media really enabled 123 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: at a scope that was not quite so possible when 124 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: people's outlets were things like conversations and letters with their 125 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: friends and newspapers and magazines and stuff, and not like 126 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: an online always on community where people can spend extraordinary 127 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: amounts of scrutiny on an offhanded comment someone gave it 128 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: an interview, right, I mean, I obviously that comes with 129 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: some inherent weirdness and but I do often just chuckle 130 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: at people in you know, completely harmless ways, trying to 131 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: like pick apart things people have said and figure out 132 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: like what they're actually trying to telegraph, and often it's 133 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: like there's nothing there. Yeah, you're literally like that person 134 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: said that thing about doors closing and then went on 135 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: with their day. They it didn't mean anything especially weighty, 136 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: but now you've attached this meaning to it that they 137 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: have no part of. Those always fascinate me a little bit. Yeah. 138 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: I used to be an avid reader of a blog 139 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: called Ask a Manager, especially when I was a manager, 140 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: which I'm not anymore, and I like, I learned so 141 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: much from that blog about being a manager. And it's 142 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: often described as like a really supportive comment community. Yeah, 143 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: but I've also very frequently seen, especially if somebody writing 144 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: a letter was doing something that seems maybe troubling or unpopular, 145 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: like just inordinately close reading looking for subtext of things 146 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: that people have said, and it's like, this is an 147 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: email someone wrote to a blog. They probably didn't spend 148 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: three weeks fine tuning the wording on it. And if 149 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: they did spend three weeks fine tuning the wording on it, 150 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: it might not actually mean anything, right, Well, those are 151 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: the moments where I always find myself being like, wait, 152 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: does this mean all of these people are always speaking 153 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: in like a cloaked, clouded version of what they're actually thinking. 154 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, who has the energy for that? Like, 155 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: I know this is why I'm a very direct person, right. 156 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't even be passive aggressive. It's too 157 00:09:52,679 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: much work. So yeah, anyway, Jean Stratton Porter, we wanted 158 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: to do an episode that was related to something that 159 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: was happening at the History Center while we were there, 160 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: and I'm glad that was the one that we chose. 161 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: I'm glad we got to make a quick run through 162 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: the exhibit about her while we were there. That's again 163 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: running until October. It's a beautiful exhibit. Yeah, it's really cool. 164 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: Before we made this trip, I had kind of thought about, like, 165 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: would it be reasonable to try to go out to 166 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: one of the historical sites associated with her? And I 167 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: did not start looking into that with any kind of 168 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: planning at all. But it also became clear that like 169 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: what needed to happen was resting before the show. Yeah, 170 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: not going on a road trip somewhere to see her 171 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: house or limberlost swamp or something such fun, such fun. 172 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: That is the cool thing if you are in that 173 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: area and are thinking about going go because there are 174 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: a lot of her photographs and photographs of her as 175 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: part of that that are really really fun to look at. Yeah, 176 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: they are really good. And they also have a fabulous 177 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: Chuck Taylor exhibit going on right now, which I was 178 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: very excited. And their very quick pass through that all 179 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: sit their staff very kindly as they were trying to 180 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: close down for the day, let us run through there. 181 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: I just wanted to see shoes. I just wanted to 182 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: see shoes. Yeah. One of the things we talked about 183 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: this week was three diseases named after places, a little uplifting, fun, 184 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: light discussion that won't leave you feeling weird or paranoid 185 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: at all. I know when I was sort of writing 186 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: the entro to it, originally, I had this like very 187 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: explicit sentence that was like, if get it sick from 188 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: an incredibly casual exposure just out trying to live your 189 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: life is gonna make you have intrusive thoughts for the 190 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: foreseeable future, maybe skip this. And then I was like, 191 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: that seems a little heavy handed for a content note. 192 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: But Yeah, when I heard about the outbreak of Legionari's 193 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: disease at the Mountain State Fair in North Carolina, that 194 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: was just like people walking past a hot dub display. 195 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: I was like, yikes, I feel that way about pretty 196 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: much every neurovirus outbreak. Yeah, is traced to a specific place, Holly, 197 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: You and I have talked about how I went on 198 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: the Jonathan Colton cruise in March of twenty twenty as 199 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: as the COVID nineteen pandemic was about to start. It 200 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: hadn't been declared a pandemic when we left, teetering on 201 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: the brink. Yeah. Yeah, And you and I have talked 202 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: about your surprise that I got on the ship. I 203 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: was literally telling people, Tracy's not getting on that boat. 204 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: I guarantee it. She's going to Well, she's going to 205 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: decide the night before that's not happening. Well. One of 206 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: the big reasons that I did is that at that 207 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: point I had been on several cruises, and nourovirus outbreaks 208 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: are so common on cruise ships that every single time 209 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: I went on one of these, I was like, is 210 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: this the time that we're all getting nourovirus on this cruise, 211 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: and when we left, COVID was still being downplayed. I 212 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: don't remember if they had even named it COVID yet, 213 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: but like it was still being downplayed in a way 214 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: that was very like just wash your hands right, don't 215 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: go licking stuff, You'll be fine. And so it sort 216 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: of felt like something a little riskier than maybe the flu. 217 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: But having already had the idea of infectious illness factored 218 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: into going on a cruise so many times, it just 219 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: sort of felt like like, this is another potential disease thing. 220 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: This is a normal way to think about a cruise anyway. Yeah, 221 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: and then you know, then while we were on the cruise, 222 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: suddenly the COVID situation. It didn't actually become a lot worse. 223 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: It had been that bad the whole time, right, it 224 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: just got it got recognized a lot. I used to 225 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: have a job that involved reading the CDC's Morbidity and 226 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: Mortality Weekly Report, so you know, I have a weird 227 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: nostalgia for it. I have also worked at a job 228 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: one time that got written up in the Morbidity and 229 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: Mortality Weekly Report. 230 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 231 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: Uh, And as I was scrolling through to get all 232 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: of the reports about the Legioneer's outbreak and the Norwalk 233 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: illness outbreak. Just scrolling through, I found one that was 234 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: about a cruise ship outbreak. This is just a sentence, 235 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: quote quote coliform bacteria in numbers too numerous to count, 236 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: were found in the ship's potable water distribution system, and 237 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: I was just like, yikes, bump, yikes, yikes. This was 238 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: one of many Yike's moments of working on this episode. 239 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Another big one was the research involving the people who 240 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: were incarcerated at the prison, because the first thing that 241 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: I read about it was almost like a side comment 242 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: that was one of those things that was printed at 243 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: a medical journal seemed to just take for granted that 244 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: the people reading would know what this study was, so 245 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: it was sort of like a not even full sentence 246 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: of and then the experiment blah blah at the prison, 247 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, no, I need to look 248 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: at more information about this experiment at a prison. And 249 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: I have access to lots of different journals through multiple 250 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: library cards and memberships, and this was one where I 251 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: needed to ask my spouse to get it from where 252 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: he works because I didn't have access to any of 253 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: my local things. And I sent him this email that 254 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: said something like, can I have this paper, please do 255 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: not read it, do not even look at the headline 256 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: too closely, and he sent me. He sent it back 257 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: to me and was like, I'm glad I got this 258 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: after luncheon, not before, and I was like, I tried 259 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: to warn you. And then when I opened it, I 260 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: had accidentally asked for like a commentary that was from 261 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: later on that had the identical title of the original paper, 262 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: and I had to ask him to get it get 263 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: another way. I felt really bad about that. Yeah, and 264 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: then the I was like, Okay, so I don't actually 265 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: have more clarity on like the specifics of how they 266 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: recruited people out of prison for this. I did not 267 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: know that there had been other people who were not 268 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: in the prison that had been part of it. Anyway, 269 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: you talked about having thoughts about how diseases are named. 270 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: I do because and this actually ties into a bigger 271 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: discussion in my opinion. So I found myself like thinking 272 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: in that moment as we were discussing the way that 273 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: we have to be very careful to not name a 274 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: disease after any place or group or anything. It's a 275 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of a depressing take. So just know that we 276 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: cannot I'm gonna not use expletives, but pretend they're all 277 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: in here, because you know they're exasperated expletives in here. 278 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: We cannot trust our fellow humans to not be jerks. Well, sure, 279 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: and I hate that and it makes me sad the 280 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: people that started calling COVID before it even had an 281 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: official name, but people who started applying terms about Asia, yeah, 282 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: and in some cases just using explicitly racist language about 283 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: Asia and Asians to describe like it sucks and it's awful. 284 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: It does, and I feel like we're in So the 285 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: reason why I say this opens up like a bigger 286 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: thing is that I feel like if you look at 287 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: the psychology of the way people interact with information about illness, 288 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: like I understand one hundred percent, your little lizard brain 289 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: has a fear response, and so you want to push 290 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: away any of that in any way you possibly can. 291 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: But like, I feel like we are in this unique 292 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: position right now where we have just watched people and 293 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: continue to watch people deal with information about contagious disease. 294 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: And I hope someone is doing a lot of research 295 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: on the psychology of how we have all managed. I mean, 296 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: I know there have been some, but I really feel 297 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: like there could be a big holistic examination of the 298 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: ways that Yeah, you know, in some ways, I feel 299 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: like being on at the point where COVID is now 300 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: considered endemic and not in a cute, just pandemic going on, 301 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: that a lot of people who got through it relatively 302 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: unscathed kind of feel like superhuman and like they maybe 303 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: are not taking the possibility of other infectious dicises right 304 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: as seriously as they could or should. It's just really weird. 305 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: And then of course people that recognize that they are 306 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: either predisposed because of other existing conditions or perhaps they 307 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: got a prettyarly bad case of COVID and may have 308 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: recovered but now are concerned about you know, we have 309 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: seen cases of like long COVID that pop up several 310 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: years after the fact, or you know, things that we 311 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: don't even have really a whole lot of documentation for. 312 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: I feel like it's separated people into thinking like, eh, 313 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: it's fine, and others into like everything is potentially a 314 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: serious disease. Yeah, like we all need to be really careful, 315 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: and those those two mindsets are having a lot of 316 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: struggle with one another. Yeah, And I hate that I wish, 317 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: I wish everybody it could be cool. I think a 318 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: lot of people from a lot of different directions have 319 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: various frustrations about how how the CDC handled and messaged 320 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: around the COVID pandemic, which I think, like, even though 321 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: there is essentially nothing being done at this point, I 322 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: think is still because of its worldwide prominence, like still 323 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: technically classified as a pandemic right the World Health Organization, 324 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: I don't think has changed never. Yeah, And there's some 325 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: stuff where it's just like it gets so frustrating, Like 326 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: it's I am at this moment getting ready to take 327 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: a trip to take my elderly parent to get a 328 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: medical procedure in the state of North Carolina where there 329 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: is a new law where like there's kind of a 330 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: medical reasons exception about it, but like a law about 331 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: mask wearing in public. And I'm just like, I'm taking 332 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: my dad to a medical facility. Yeah, during a big 333 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: COVID wave, Like there's a lot of COVID going around 334 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: right now. My mother is incredibly high risk. Uh, and 335 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: I would just generally not like to get COVID because 336 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: when I got it, which I've only had at once, 337 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: it was bad I didn't have to go to the hospital, 338 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: but I missed multiple days of work, and then for 339 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: a week after that, I had to work in a 340 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: recliner and when I tried to record, my watch kept 341 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: telling me my heart rate was too fast, and like 342 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: then I was just exhausted for probably another two weeks 343 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: after all that. And it's like that is not just 344 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: a cold, uh, which is what people like to say. Yeah, 345 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean I feel like there. I was just thinking 346 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: about this the other day and my husband and I 347 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: were just discussing it because I had traveled a few 348 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: weeks back and two of the people that I had 349 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: traveled with or had seen during my travels tested positive 350 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: for COVID not long after. And it was a little 351 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: bit before I saw you in Indiana, and I knew 352 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: you had this coming up. So I was like testing 353 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, And I never had symptoms and I 354 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: never tested positive. And I even did like a you know, 355 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: a grown up test in a facilit negative negative negative, 356 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know if I just 357 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: got lucky because I'm very like tactile. I hug all 358 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: my friends, I kiss them on the cheek, et cetera. 359 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: And I was like I don't. I don't know why 360 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: I didn't get this, And I was asking that we 361 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,959 Speaker 1: were talking about vaccination status, and I was like, did 362 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: you get your spike vacs? And at least one of 363 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: those people was like what, And I was like, we 364 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: have failed in messaging about yeah, this too. Like I 365 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: feel like now when I have talked to numerous friends 366 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: and I don't want to throw anybody under the bus 367 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: because a lot of people who are pretty darn informed 368 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: are like, I didn't even know we had another wind coming. 369 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: I didn't, right, has Unless you're like going to your 370 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: GP on the regular and your GP is really on 371 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: top of it, right, you might not know that there 372 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: are new variations that will that are being formulated theoretically 373 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: to keep up with the shifting mutations of the virus. 374 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: But like, if you aren't doing that, it's not like 375 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: there are bulletins going out. It's not like you would 376 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: have to literally be hunting it down on your own 377 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think information is 378 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: sort of going out within medical professionals and like not 379 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: making its way to the public unless you're on Unless 380 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: you wind up on the COVID cautious side of TikTok, 381 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: in which case you might get more information than is 382 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: really helpful to you. That sort of brings me around 383 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: to like the last thing that I had written on 384 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: my list of ideas to talk about on the Friday 385 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: behind the Scenes, which is that at the beginning of COVID, 386 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: there were a lot of steps that were being taken. 387 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: A lot of times people thought they would be helpful, 388 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: steps would not really be helpful. Steps that included things 389 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: like either wiping down or disinfecting restaurant menus or giving 390 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 1: people a way to order things that was not a 391 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: physical menu that they would hold. That's not really helping 392 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: for COVID. There's a lot of stuff that's still around 393 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: that's like recommendations to protect yourself, and one of those 394 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: things is hand washing, and like people get really snippy 395 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: about it and are like, that's not how COVID spreads. 396 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: COVID is airborne, and I'm like, you know what does 397 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: spread that way? 398 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 2: Though? 399 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: Norovirus? So much stuff, Yeah, you know what else? I 400 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: would not like to get neurovirus. There's just so much. 401 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: There are lots of food borne illnesses that like hand 402 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: washing is a big, big part of protecting yourself. And 403 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: protecting other people if you were preparing or handling their food. 404 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: So I got I get a little irritated by like 405 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: this sort of weird almost backlash against hand washing because 406 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: it is not a preventative for COVID. Like, here's my thing. 407 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: It takes so little effort and it can protect you 408 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: from other stuff. Why would you fight this? Right? Right? 409 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do have a a. 410 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: Personal hilarity of my own ignorance on a thing which 411 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if someone told me this growing up 412 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: and I just operated with this for a long time, 413 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: or if I had made a presumption based on something 414 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: someone told me when I was a kid, because for 415 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: the longest time, I thought to get away from less 416 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: scary things. The differentiator between having a cold and having 417 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: a flu was if you barfed. Huh, Like I didn't 418 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: know that you could have a flu that was not 419 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: about like throwing up or having bathroom emergencies. I just 420 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: thought that was a super bad cold. And this is 421 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: a falsehood that persisted in my knowledge base well into 422 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: my adulthood. One of my personal pet peeves is the 423 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: term stomach flu because that has nothing to do with influenza. Right. 424 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: Influenza is a separate thing. Right, that's its own illness 425 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: and can also be very serious and like a flu 426 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: shot every year is not going to protect you from 427 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: whatever gi illness that people are describing as stomach flu. Right. 428 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say you thought the 429 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: differentiator was whether you have a fever. 430 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: No. 431 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: I literally thought it was a barf situation. Yeah. Yeah, 432 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: the one time as an adult person that I have 433 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: actually been diagnosed with the flu, I was also very sick. 434 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: And again I did not have to go to the hospital, 435 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: but I think I missed an entire week of work 436 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: and I remember calling our coworker at the time, Julie, 437 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: to tell her that I was not coming in for 438 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: like the fourth day in the row. Yeah, And when 439 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: I got back to the office, she was like, you 440 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: sounded so bad I wanted to disinfect my phone. Uh 441 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: So anyway, Yes, it's just my little personal pet peeve 442 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: about terms stomach flu. Yeah, I believe it. I also 443 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: the discussion of PPE made me chuckle a little, which 444 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: is not to say that it's a laughable thing. I 445 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: want to I'm trying to figure out the best way 446 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: to discuss this without being disgusting. Some number of years back, 447 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: as you may recall, I had a little surprise hospital stay. 448 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: I've had a couple of those. Yeah, a sickly person 449 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: and I'm quite robust, really, but I had what turned 450 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: out to be a bacterial intestinal infection. That was a 451 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: little scary at the time, but you know, I'm fine. 452 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: But initially when they admitted me, they did not know 453 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: if I had seediff and those tests take a while 454 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: to come back, so my poor nurses, who were amazing, 455 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: had to has mad up every time they came in 456 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: my room. And you, I mean, you would have thought 457 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: I had cured a long term, unwieldy disease when they 458 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: found out that they no longer had to do that anymore. Yeah. 459 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: It just is such an arduous additional step for people 460 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: that are managing the care of multiple people at a time. Yeah, 461 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: and it, you know, slows down their whole like schedule 462 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: for the day. I certainly appreciate that they do it 463 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: and that all of that was being done, but I 464 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: was I mean, obviously I was also very grateful, But 465 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: when you were talking about like the need to do 466 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: training people on how to use it, I was like, oh, yes, 467 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: because even just gloves, like even if the only thing 468 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: you're doing is putting gloves on. It is very easy 469 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: to especially taking gloves off, do it in a way 470 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: that you touch your skin with a glove. Yeah, and 471 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: now that's that's contaminated. And I also, like I think 472 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: I did want to say, I don't I don't think 473 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: I actually said this in the episode anywhere, But like 474 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization investigators who came during the first 475 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: Ebola outbreaks, they really stressed like they were like, these 476 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: medical staff are people who care about what they're doing. 477 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: They're doing their best. They just don't have the resources 478 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: and the training to be able to prevent an outbreak 479 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: of an illness like this, because like nineteen seventy six, 480 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: not as many bloodborne illnesses identified as now, not as 481 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: much of a focus on blood borne pathogens prevention for 482 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: their transmission. And then again like getting into and out 483 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: of a full gown and mask and gloves and booties, 484 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: and like getting into and out of all that, especially 485 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: getting out of it after you treated somebody without like 486 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: it's a whole thing, And like if you just put 487 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,479 Speaker 1: it on and yank it off like it's you're probably 488 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: going to wind up either touching your skin to it 489 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: or touching something else that then is contaminated. Yeah. Well, 490 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: and it's also worth pointing out, right in some of 491 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: these hospitals that we were talking about, there was one 492 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: you specifically mentioned the staff numbers. It was only like 493 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: seventeen people, So like, when you consider that is a 494 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: tiny group of people, yeah, who in an outbreak situation, 495 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: are then having to care for a lot of people, Like, 496 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: it's so easy in the desire to you, even if 497 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: you're being very careful, just to like speed up that 498 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: x amount that somehow breaks that whole chain of caution 499 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: that you have to maintain in the putting on and 500 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: taking off, Like I can't imagine. I don't think I 501 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: would probably do it properly in that scenario, right, So 502 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: it's easy to be like, oh, they didn't know any better, 503 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: what a bunch of like no, no, no, Well, and 504 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: I think that seventeen person staff was at a facility 505 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: that had one hundred and twenty beds, so like a 506 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: lot of patients for each nurse. That also somehow reminded 507 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: me of like I've heard people who work in medicine 508 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: talk about how a lot of times family members don't 509 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: realize how easy something is to spread so like a 510 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: well meaning family member will refill the water picture for 511 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: their sick love one, not realizing that that water pitcher 512 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: has now contaminated the water fountain with whatever that person 513 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: yea had, Like it's an ongoing thing. Anyway, we have 514 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: taken a number of digressions from I will also say 515 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: uh germane to the listener mail, I do have an 516 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: episode coming about Norway. Nice, it's not great. It's not 517 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: an upbeater. Well, so just brace for that. But uh yeah, 518 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: but I would love to do more Norwegian topics because 519 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: it sounds great. Yeah, whatever's happening on your weekend, I 520 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: hope it goes well. I hope if anybody in your 521 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: circle is ill, including you, I hope everybody is recovering 522 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: as well as possible. Everybody washes their hands. You can 523 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: find our show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you 524 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and we'll be back. It was Saturday 525 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: Classic Tomorrow and something brand new on Monday. Stuff you 526 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: missed in History. Clu is a production of iHeartRadio. For 527 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 528 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.