WEBVTT - Good Call/Bad Call: Bari Weiss as CBS’s New Editor-in-Chief 0:00:15.564 --> 0:00:28.564 Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making 0:00:28.604 --> 0:00:31.884 better decisions. I'm Maria Kanakova and I'm Nate Silver. 0:00:32.724 --> 0:00:34.884 Today on the show, Maria, I gotta be honest, this 0:00:34.924 --> 0:00:37.644 is gonna be a little bit of a media naval 0:00:37.724 --> 0:00:41.444 gazing kind of episode. People love talking about this stuff. 0:00:41.484 --> 0:00:43.244 Some of them do, some of them don't write. But 0:00:43.284 --> 0:00:46.444 we're gonna be talking about the recent acquisition by paramount 0:00:46.724 --> 0:00:50.564 of the subset publication the Free Press, Barry Weis's publication 0:00:50.644 --> 0:00:53.084 for one hundred and fifty million dollars. Barry Wise also 0:00:53.164 --> 0:00:56.044 now the editor in chief of CBS News. I kind 0:00:56.084 --> 0:00:58.564 of can't resist this topic because, as you'll hear, like 0:00:59.084 --> 0:01:02.644 I just know and you know this landscape pretty well. 0:01:02.684 --> 0:01:04.244 I used to work for ABC News, I used to 0:01:04.244 --> 0:01:05.524 work for the New York Times where Barry is. I 0:01:05.604 --> 0:01:08.124 have my own substack that doesn't compete quite with the 0:01:08.124 --> 0:01:10.364 Free Press, but like, I know all this stuff really well. 0:01:10.604 --> 0:01:12.924 You know, it's too close to the bone for me 0:01:13.004 --> 0:01:15.644 not to have opinions about it. And there is some 0:01:15.724 --> 0:01:18.044 strategy work too, as far as as far as what 0:01:18.084 --> 0:01:19.604 CBS wants to get out of this. How do you 0:01:19.684 --> 0:01:22.204 build a differentiated media brand? How do you know when 0:01:22.204 --> 0:01:24.044 you're hiring a good editor in chief and they will 0:01:24.044 --> 0:01:25.244 do a good called bad call, right? 0:01:25.444 --> 0:01:25.724 Yeah. 0:01:25.764 --> 0:01:28.124 Absolutely, to say at the end of the day, is 0:01:28.164 --> 0:01:30.724 this a good decision for CBS, the acquisition of a 0:01:30.764 --> 0:01:33.924 free press making Barry wise editor in chief? Is this 0:01:34.044 --> 0:01:37.404 good for the brand? Is this good for the future 0:01:37.444 --> 0:01:40.524 of media? 0:01:42.284 --> 0:01:44.204 Would you like to have one hundred and two million dollars, Maria, 0:01:44.284 --> 0:01:45.924 I would love to have one hundred and fifty dollars 0:01:45.964 --> 0:01:46.204 a night. 0:01:46.524 --> 0:01:50.284 So let's uh, let's dive in and just talk about 0:01:50.324 --> 0:01:54.204 this decision. It's heavily tax you know what, Nate, I 0:01:54.244 --> 0:01:56.244 will happily pay taxes. 0:01:56.444 --> 0:01:57.724 You just pay what taxes. 0:01:58.204 --> 0:02:01.004 I will happily pay more taxes. If someone were to 0:02:01.084 --> 0:02:03.884 offer me one hundred and fifty million dollars, why night 0:02:03.924 --> 0:02:04.484 are you offering? 0:02:04.604 --> 0:02:07.084 If I had one hundred and fifty billion dollars, I 0:02:07.164 --> 0:02:10.284 might offer you like a really ice birthday gift. 0:02:11.324 --> 0:02:15.644 Ah, that's so sweet. This is where this is where 0:02:15.684 --> 0:02:19.804 friendships come to die right on this podcast, ladies and gentlemen. 0:02:20.764 --> 0:02:25.404 But let's talk about Barry Weiss's appointment. So with that 0:02:25.564 --> 0:02:30.884 acquisition for one hundred and fifty million dollars, Barry Weiss 0:02:30.964 --> 0:02:35.084 has become the editor in chief of CBS News, which 0:02:35.124 --> 0:02:38.444 is now part of Paramount. Right, because there was just 0:02:38.564 --> 0:02:44.044 a big deal where Paramount, which is owned by David Ellison, 0:02:44.164 --> 0:02:47.524 who is I don't know how many billions he has, 0:02:47.564 --> 0:02:49.164 but he has many of them. 0:02:49.564 --> 0:02:53.084 Not enough, not enough, clearly, not enough clearly. 0:02:53.884 --> 0:02:58.604 So yeah, so now she will be running CBS News. Nate, 0:02:58.684 --> 0:03:01.204 you say everyone has opinions. I certainly have opinions, but 0:03:01.644 --> 0:03:04.524 let's start. Let's start with your opinions. What do you 0:03:04.604 --> 0:03:08.484 think about this decision? And then I will I will 0:03:08.524 --> 0:03:11.084 speak to someone who formally worked in news. 0:03:11.284 --> 0:03:13.284 Yeah, and look, I should also say, like, you know, 0:03:13.364 --> 0:03:15.644 I don't understand the whole I have a substack. I'm 0:03:15.644 --> 0:03:18.404 an investor in substack. Just disclosing on my conflict of interest. Right. 0:03:19.924 --> 0:03:22.084 I've met Barry once or twice. I had nice interactions 0:03:22.084 --> 0:03:24.044 with her. I've talked about collaboration with the Free Press 0:03:24.084 --> 0:03:26.404 different times. But I don't think i've any like conflicts 0:03:26.404 --> 0:03:30.004 that make this awkward officially, or maybe awkward, but not 0:03:30.084 --> 0:03:32.044 more than awkward, which is kind of always how it 0:03:32.124 --> 0:03:34.724 is with this naval gazing, insight journalism and stuff. So 0:03:35.164 --> 0:03:39.684 I have a few thoughts. Right, number one, the purchase 0:03:39.724 --> 0:03:44.444 price of one hundred and fifty million dollars is actually 0:03:44.844 --> 0:03:48.124 not ridiculous, right. And the reason I know this is because, 0:03:48.204 --> 0:03:52.724 like I've spent a lot of time looking at multiples 0:03:53.444 --> 0:03:57.164 of based on the number of paid subscribers that you have, Right, 0:03:57.204 --> 0:03:59.764 what does that tend to sell for in the market, 0:03:59.844 --> 0:04:02.684 for example? You know, the reason I'm interested in this 0:04:02.724 --> 0:04:04.564 is that from time to time I get you know, 0:04:04.644 --> 0:04:07.044 people want to have something to do with my substack, 0:04:07.164 --> 0:04:10.124 silver bulletin invest capital in it. And it's weird because, 0:04:10.164 --> 0:04:14.244 like when you accept money, there are a lot of 0:04:14.404 --> 0:04:16.804 strings attached. Right. It's like not like you're just buying 0:04:16.884 --> 0:04:20.364 like an annuity in whatever revenue that you have in 0:04:20.404 --> 0:04:22.684 the future. Right, You're expected to give up some control, 0:04:22.764 --> 0:04:26.004 You're expected to work a certain amount of time, maybe harder. 0:04:26.404 --> 0:04:29.044 You're expected to you know, give up some of the 0:04:29.044 --> 0:04:33.964 profit yourself. But like you know, they are the top 0:04:34.004 --> 0:04:38.164 selling substack on the platform, I believe by some margin. 0:04:38.204 --> 0:04:40.044 I do have some knowledge that I'm going to try 0:04:40.044 --> 0:04:43.604 not to reveal, But like you know, they have well 0:04:43.644 --> 0:04:47.524 over a million total subscribers right at typical rate that 0:04:47.604 --> 0:04:52.044 translates probably into low six figure paid subscribers. The growth 0:04:52.044 --> 0:04:54.164 has been solid. They have been spending a lot of 0:04:54.204 --> 0:04:56.084 money on staff. It's not like, you know, I have 0:04:56.164 --> 0:04:59.444 two people I hire. They have dozens, right, But like 0:04:59.524 --> 0:05:01.564 you know, depending on whether it's a time for like 0:05:02.324 --> 0:05:04.684 hot or cold kind of valuations in the market, I 0:05:04.684 --> 0:05:06.884 feel like there's gonna be like a more scientific way 0:05:06.924 --> 0:05:09.364 to put that, but like it's not inherently ridiculous. 0:05:09.484 --> 0:05:11.124 Yeah, I was. Actually that was one of the things 0:05:11.124 --> 0:05:13.004 that I was curious to hear your opinion on because 0:05:13.044 --> 0:05:15.364 I don't know anything about the financials, and when I 0:05:15.404 --> 0:05:17.244 saw that amount, I was like, wow, that seems like 0:05:17.284 --> 0:05:17.604 a lot. 0:05:17.804 --> 0:05:20.724 Yeah. Look, I mean you know when I was talking 0:05:20.724 --> 0:05:23.164 with John Skipper, who was on the president of ESPN 0:05:23.244 --> 0:05:27.604 when when they purchased the five thirty eight brand, right, 0:05:27.964 --> 0:05:30.004 you know, he said, in my philosophy's in North Carolina, 0:05:30.084 --> 0:05:34.044 got my philosophy and negotiations is always that it's worth 0:05:34.044 --> 0:05:35.804 one dollar more the next guy is willing to pay 0:05:35.844 --> 0:05:37.604 for it, right. So, and there's some of that, right. 0:05:37.964 --> 0:05:42.044 But the thing about subscription models, and it's nice to 0:05:42.124 --> 0:05:47.684 have myself, right, is if they are cash flow positive, right, 0:05:48.124 --> 0:05:50.764 you can get a big burst of subscribers upfront, they're 0:05:50.764 --> 0:05:53.804 paying for the whole year or the whole month in advance. Right, 0:05:53.844 --> 0:05:55.964 So it's like not some future we're going to build 0:05:55.964 --> 0:05:58.524 this brand up and then later on converted to advertising 0:05:58.564 --> 0:06:01.764 revenues or make it a brand consultancy or something else. 0:06:01.924 --> 0:06:02.124 Right. 0:06:02.524 --> 0:06:05.844 You know if free press has north of one hundred 0:06:05.964 --> 0:06:11.004 thousand paid subscribers, right and they're paying on average, after 0:06:11.284 --> 0:06:14.604 after stripe fees and things like that, eighty dollars a 0:06:14.684 --> 0:06:17.524 year or whatever, right, I mean that is like that's 0:06:17.564 --> 0:06:21.764 like actual freaking money. You know, whether it justifies one 0:06:21.844 --> 0:06:26.164 hundred and fifty billion, you get into multipless can be billion, 0:06:26.964 --> 0:06:29.244 it can get to multiples. Multiples can be subjective. 0:06:29.404 --> 0:06:29.564 Right. 0:06:30.324 --> 0:06:33.804 There's maybe some notion that, like all those subscription businesses 0:06:33.804 --> 0:06:37.404 get off to a fast start, you know, in theory 0:06:37.444 --> 0:06:41.044 they have some upside cap, right. Yeah, Typically there's like 0:06:41.124 --> 0:06:45.364 kind of a S curve sign you at first, you 0:06:45.404 --> 0:06:47.764 have trouble finding anybody because I don't know about you. Right, 0:06:48.164 --> 0:06:50.724 the developed brand awareness and you reach everybody in your 0:06:50.724 --> 0:06:54.124 potential audience, the people who are the most excited about 0:06:54.124 --> 0:06:56.604 your product, subscribed first rate and then probably encounter some 0:06:56.684 --> 0:06:59.044 diminishing returns. And the point is that, like where do 0:06:59.084 --> 0:07:01.004 you find yourself on that. You know, when do those 0:07:01.004 --> 0:07:04.204 inflection points hit potentially right, you start to get more churn, 0:07:04.604 --> 0:07:10.164 it gets harder. Right. One criticism that's and levied against 0:07:10.164 --> 0:07:15.924 the Free press is that it focuses on some particular issues, 0:07:18.724 --> 0:07:22.964 some of which, in various ways are becoming less relevant. Right. 0:07:23.404 --> 0:07:27.924 You know, it focused a lot on woke excesses in 0:07:27.964 --> 0:07:30.684 the kind of the liberal sphere. Right, I'm not going 0:07:30.764 --> 0:07:32.164 to put woke in quotation marks. I think it was 0:07:32.164 --> 0:07:35.604 a real thing. Barry Weiss quit The New York Times 0:07:35.604 --> 0:07:37.924 in twenty twenty at a time when there was a 0:07:37.924 --> 0:07:40.364 lot of peer pressure and group think, and so this 0:07:40.404 --> 0:07:42.764 place sucks, right, I'm not going to be here anymore, 0:07:42.764 --> 0:07:48.244 even though she'd been brought in to solicit conservative opinion pieces. 0:07:48.604 --> 0:07:51.644 And part of what happens with these substacks is when 0:07:51.684 --> 0:07:55.404 there is like a market inefficiency when for whatever reason, 0:07:55.964 --> 0:08:00.724 because because there's peer pressure in newsrooms, because corporate big 0:08:00.764 --> 0:08:05.884 wigs are cow towing to a particular opinion to Trump 0:08:06.004 --> 0:08:10.204 maybe for example, you know, substack feels that vuli where 0:08:10.404 --> 0:08:11.844 there was a lot of people who were like, yeah, 0:08:11.884 --> 0:08:14.524 I'm liberal but I'm not woke. This shit seems ridiculous. 0:08:14.724 --> 0:08:18.404 And so here's a free press that, like the free press, 0:08:18.844 --> 0:08:21.484 which are called common sense, that like speaks to those 0:08:21.484 --> 0:08:24.724 issues in a way that other publications don't write. I 0:08:24.764 --> 0:08:26.404 think it's been more of a struggle for like, how 0:08:26.444 --> 0:08:30.044 does this audience feel about like covering the Trump administration? Right? 0:08:30.724 --> 0:08:34.884 Trump is president and therefore, you know he makes most 0:08:34.884 --> 0:08:38.004 of the news. If you're kind of covering politics, right, 0:08:39.084 --> 0:08:41.804 I think probably you're gonna see some Well, I'm speaking 0:08:41.804 --> 0:08:44.804 my own book here, right, I think these blogs are 0:08:45.044 --> 0:08:46.884 interesting but partisan. I think they tend to suck when 0:08:46.884 --> 0:08:49.844 it comes to, like actually covering elections. I think they 0:08:49.844 --> 0:08:52.124 tend to be extremely partisan and not good at like 0:08:52.404 --> 0:08:55.044 keeping their arms legs from polls. But no doubt, like 0:08:55.044 --> 0:08:57.084 if you kind of got in early that like there's 0:08:57.084 --> 0:08:58.284 a lot of desire for it, and a lot of 0:08:58.284 --> 0:09:01.364 the best commentary about what's going on right is on 0:09:01.404 --> 0:09:04.684 substeck now and not in the Washington Post, for example. Right, 0:09:04.764 --> 0:09:06.764 so you know, this creates a market were you no 0:09:06.804 --> 0:09:12.004 longer have have gate keepers, and in some sense, like 0:09:12.124 --> 0:09:17.124 I admire anybody who says fuck you, I don't care 0:09:17.164 --> 0:09:19.284 about the gatekeepers. Right, I'm going to do my own thing, 0:09:19.524 --> 0:09:21.244 and I'm going to prove it with the fact that 0:09:21.284 --> 0:09:24.484 I've developed, you know, the largest audience on this very 0:09:24.764 --> 0:09:26.924 competitive platform. I've been talking for a while, Maria, what 0:09:26.924 --> 0:09:29.324 do you I haven't even I have you have Wooden 0:09:29.444 --> 0:09:31.724 edge Wise, what do you? What do you think? 0:09:32.404 --> 0:09:37.884 Well, you know, I, I frankly probably find the choice 0:09:38.684 --> 0:09:44.684 more concerning than you do. For you know, I think 0:09:44.724 --> 0:09:50.284 that the free press has changed a lot since it 0:09:50.404 --> 0:09:55.484 was since its inception, right. I actually I was much 0:09:55.724 --> 0:10:00.724 more sympathetic to a lot of Barry Weiss's pieces earlier on, 0:10:01.524 --> 0:10:06.004 and I feel like it has gone from like actually 0:10:06.244 --> 0:10:10.644 wanting to be free press to being a little bit 0:10:11.404 --> 0:10:14.644 too much on the other side, so to speak, right, 0:10:14.724 --> 0:10:19.844 and now actually being quite biased. Like whenever Trump is 0:10:19.884 --> 0:10:23.804 suddenly singing your praises, you should probably be just a 0:10:23.804 --> 0:10:26.604 little bit worried that maybe you're not the champion of 0:10:26.684 --> 0:10:31.244 free speech that that you once were. So so there, 0:10:31.324 --> 0:10:35.924 there's that, and then this is CBS News, right, and 0:10:36.404 --> 0:10:43.284 that's and so so let's talk about that, right, Let's 0:10:43.364 --> 0:10:46.964 talk about the fact that Barry Wise has zero experience 0:10:47.524 --> 0:10:49.804 running a newsroom running. 0:10:49.484 --> 0:10:51.444 Now you're making Now you're making the bad of the bargainment. 0:10:51.564 --> 0:10:52.004 But that's true. 0:10:52.044 --> 0:10:52.604 But it's true. 0:10:52.644 --> 0:10:56.084 It's not a bad it's hold on, hold on. I've 0:10:56.244 --> 0:10:59.604 so she's never worked in television, right, and let me 0:10:59.724 --> 0:11:02.684 just say one of the first things she did when 0:11:02.724 --> 0:11:06.484 she started was send out a memo telling everyone to 0:11:07.404 --> 0:11:12.364 take time to write a memo to her detailing how 0:11:12.404 --> 0:11:15.524 they spend their entire day so that she could read that. 0:11:16.164 --> 0:11:19.764 And to me, that's like, that's not even a red flag. 0:11:19.844 --> 0:11:23.884 That's like flaming red fires. If someone asked me to 0:11:23.924 --> 0:11:27.324 do that, I would probably be like, I'm very sorry, 0:11:27.404 --> 0:11:31.644 but with all due respect, fuck you. Like, as someone 0:11:31.644 --> 0:11:34.924 who actually worked on a daily news show and who 0:11:34.964 --> 0:11:39.044 has worked in a magazine, you know, corporate world, which she, 0:11:39.084 --> 0:11:40.964 by the way, didn't do on the editorial side. She 0:11:41.084 --> 0:11:44.084 was just an opinion columnist, and then she started her 0:11:44.084 --> 0:11:48.004 own thing. It is very, very different. Running CBS News 0:11:48.044 --> 0:11:52.124 is not running the Free Press on substack and being 0:11:52.164 --> 0:11:56.324 put in charge of that. It's you know, imagine if 0:11:56.364 --> 0:11:59.764 all of a sudden, like let's imagine I'm still at 0:11:59.764 --> 0:12:02.924 The New Yorker and we're told that, hey, David Remnick 0:12:03.044 --> 0:12:06.964 is leaving and instead we're going to get I don't 0:12:06.964 --> 0:12:09.164 even know who. Elon Musk. He's very smart, and he's 0:12:09.164 --> 0:12:10.604 gonna be your editor in chief. 0:12:10.964 --> 0:12:12.884 Oh no, but Ria, this is getting more Libby. 0:12:13.004 --> 0:12:14.684 But it doesn't have to be at Elon Musk. It 0:12:14.724 --> 0:12:17.124 could be Bill Gates. I don't care who it is, 0:12:17.164 --> 0:12:21.764 but someone who has zero experience running a magazine. But now, 0:12:21.844 --> 0:12:24.164 even if David Remnick were to go to CBS News, 0:12:24.164 --> 0:12:27.364 that would be a little bit weird, and he probably 0:12:27.364 --> 0:12:30.804 still isn't particularly qualified for that because even though he's 0:12:30.884 --> 0:12:34.764 run something that's much more similar to that kind of organization, 0:12:34.884 --> 0:12:36.924 it's still incredibly different. 0:12:36.964 --> 0:12:38.444 I mean, first, first of all, if you want to 0:12:38.484 --> 0:12:40.644 talk about qualified, like a lot of the presidents of 0:12:40.644 --> 0:12:42.164 these network news organizations, this. 0:12:42.164 --> 0:12:45.084 Is a president, she's she's not the president though, right, 0:12:45.124 --> 0:12:46.924 This is someone who is in charge of the content. 0:12:47.164 --> 0:12:49.564 Those are very very she's act. 0:12:49.444 --> 0:12:50.964 But it's those are different roles. 0:12:51.084 --> 0:12:52.764 She reports to Ellison, right, right. 0:12:52.644 --> 0:12:53.804 But those are different roles. 0:12:54.644 --> 0:12:57.084 The role of editor can mean a lot of different things. 0:12:57.204 --> 0:12:59.724 Right now, I'm not talking about politics. I'm just talking 0:12:59.724 --> 0:13:03.164 about like, who are you putting in charge of a 0:13:03.244 --> 0:13:06.844 news organization? Do you are you putting someone who actually 0:13:06.924 --> 0:13:08.884 understands how to run a newsroom. 0:13:09.204 --> 0:13:12.044 And yes, she has run she has run a newsroom 0:13:12.124 --> 0:13:15.604 with like several dozen people. That is one of the 0:13:15.724 --> 0:13:17.484 few successful businesses. 0:13:17.764 --> 0:13:21.564 But it's not television. It's a very different medium. Podcasts 0:13:21.604 --> 0:13:25.084 are different from newsletters, are different from daily TV shows 0:13:25.404 --> 0:13:27.844 are different from screenwriting, are differs. 0:13:27.964 --> 0:13:30.204 So you want you want more superficiality. 0:13:30.364 --> 0:13:33.124 No, I want someone who I think is qualified. If 0:13:33.164 --> 0:13:37.044 you look at her resume, just pretend you don't even 0:13:37.044 --> 0:13:39.164 see her name, right, and you see resumes of people, 0:13:39.164 --> 0:13:41.804 this is not someone who would ever get that job, right, Like, 0:13:41.884 --> 0:13:45.724 she just lacks some basic qualifications, some basic stepping stone. 0:13:45.804 --> 0:13:49.244 Go ahead and look at like who is hired to 0:13:49.324 --> 0:13:54.964 these senior level positions at ABC, CBS, NBC. Right. Sometimes 0:13:54.964 --> 0:13:58.244 it's longtime TV executives. Sometimes it's people with the journalism background. 0:13:58.764 --> 0:14:02.364 Sometimes it's somebody who's a big name brought in from 0:14:02.564 --> 0:14:06.484 the outside. Right. Sometimes it's somebody who who was a 0:14:06.524 --> 0:14:10.964 star producing a different type of television, might producing sports 0:14:11.044 --> 0:14:13.804 or something like that. Sometimes it's somebody who kind of 0:14:13.844 --> 0:14:16.084 came up the corporate length since kind of like a bureaucrat. 0:14:16.404 --> 0:14:18.924 The range of things that you do is like an editor, 0:14:19.244 --> 0:14:21.884 including bureaucratic task, editorial task, and most of the people 0:14:21.884 --> 0:14:24.324 have not been very successful or good. It's a kind 0:14:24.324 --> 0:14:26.604 of high turnover. At least in the curtent environment. Used 0:14:26.644 --> 0:14:29.204 to have like long standing people who would have this 0:14:29.284 --> 0:14:32.004 job for years, right, but the turnover is very high. 0:14:32.044 --> 0:14:34.364 And like, why wouldn't you want to pick somebody who 0:14:34.444 --> 0:14:38.684 has actually built a successful news product before? 0:14:38.924 --> 0:14:41.604 Well, I would want someone who at least understands how 0:14:41.644 --> 0:14:45.204 my medium works, someone who has worked in screen and 0:14:45.244 --> 0:14:48.044 who understands that writing for the screen is very different 0:14:48.124 --> 0:14:51.644 from writing for the page. Who understands that what it 0:14:51.724 --> 0:14:54.444 takes to succeed in television is not what it takes 0:14:54.684 --> 0:14:58.244 to succeed in print journalism. Who understands how all of 0:14:58.284 --> 0:15:01.484 these different media products work together. I want someone with 0:15:01.684 --> 0:15:06.764 a demonstrated capacity to make that sort of a transition, 0:15:07.284 --> 0:15:09.764 and she I would at least have won her in 0:15:09.764 --> 0:15:13.764 a more junior position to demonstrate that she's capable of 0:15:13.804 --> 0:15:17.284 creating sixty minutes, right, of producing a show like that. 0:15:17.644 --> 0:15:20.004 And let me tell you from having actually worked as 0:15:20.004 --> 0:15:23.484 a television producer, it is not anything like what I 0:15:23.524 --> 0:15:26.444 do as a print journalism. The things that you write 0:15:26.444 --> 0:15:29.884 for it are vast, Like it's just a completely different 0:15:29.884 --> 0:15:32.764 skill set, and to think that it's the same skill 0:15:32.804 --> 0:15:37.364 set just is basically ignorant, to be perfectly honest. Like 0:15:37.484 --> 0:15:38.764 it's it's like saying this. 0:15:38.764 --> 0:15:41.924 News is not a tell it doesn't want to be 0:15:41.964 --> 0:15:44.044 a television company. It wouldn't have the valuation. 0:15:44.204 --> 0:15:47.484 And yet and yet so much of it is television. 0:15:47.524 --> 0:15:50.564 And to bring in someone who does not understand television 0:15:50.884 --> 0:15:54.324 and has no background in it, I think is just 0:15:55.204 --> 0:15:56.884 a jaw dropping decision. 0:15:58.124 --> 0:16:02.324 I'm just dealt with enough like corporate suits at these 0:16:02.364 --> 0:16:06.404 companies specifically, where like the bar is pretty low. Somebody 0:16:06.444 --> 0:16:08.924 who's bright and hard working and has built a successful 0:16:08.964 --> 0:16:14.284 editory brand right and understands video, you know, I mean, 0:16:14.324 --> 0:16:16.724 their kindent is pretty tech steady, right, But like it's 0:16:16.724 --> 0:16:18.564 not an easy thing to like build a brand when 0:16:18.564 --> 0:16:19.524 you kind of start out. 0:16:19.684 --> 0:16:21.964 I'm not trying to I'm not trying. I'm not trying 0:16:22.004 --> 0:16:26.484 to say that Barry Weiss does not you know, is 0:16:26.524 --> 0:16:28.884 not good at what she does. I'm not, you know, 0:16:29.284 --> 0:16:31.724 I'm not trying to say that, but I'm saying that 0:16:31.764 --> 0:16:35.004 what she does is not necessarily what I'd be looking 0:16:35.084 --> 0:16:39.324 for in the editor in chief, not the president of 0:16:40.004 --> 0:16:44.044 CBS News, someone who's in charge of the editorial decisions 0:16:44.484 --> 0:16:49.764 of this brand and the editorial decisions across the board. 0:16:50.124 --> 0:16:53.004 So potentially, like what a CBS News saying, are we 0:16:53.084 --> 0:16:54.964 saying we don't want to be a television company at all? 0:16:55.044 --> 0:16:57.404 Are we gonna shut down sixty Minutes? Are we going 0:16:57.444 --> 0:17:00.804 to shut down all of our flagship shows and we're 0:17:00.844 --> 0:17:03.324 not gonna do TV We're gonna do We're just gonna 0:17:03.324 --> 0:17:06.484 become the free press or or whatever it is. If 0:17:06.484 --> 0:17:08.604 that's what they're saying, Okay, well that's one thing. But 0:17:08.884 --> 0:17:11.324 I don't think that's what they're saying. I mean, I 0:17:11.324 --> 0:17:13.724 think they still want to produce some of the best 0:17:13.804 --> 0:17:18.884 quality television. That is some of the best quality news television. 0:17:18.884 --> 0:17:21.484 That's what they're known for. I keep saying sixty Minutes 0:17:21.524 --> 0:17:23.564 because it's one of the most respected brands, not just 0:17:23.604 --> 0:17:26.124 in the United States but in the world. And a 0:17:26.124 --> 0:17:28.404 lot of the people in sixty Minutes quit right over 0:17:28.444 --> 0:17:30.644 the last year because there's been a lot of turmoil 0:17:30.724 --> 0:17:33.404 and CBS has shown that it doesn't have a backbone 0:17:33.444 --> 0:17:36.284 in terms of protecting the quality of it of its 0:17:36.404 --> 0:17:40.244 editorial content. And the independence of its journalists. And so 0:17:40.444 --> 0:17:46.564 this is to me just another reason to be skeptical 0:17:46.644 --> 0:17:49.764 and alarmed. Now she I would be so thrilled, Nate, 0:17:49.764 --> 0:17:51.884 if Barry Wies were to prove me wrong and were 0:17:51.924 --> 0:17:54.764 to come in there and prove that, like you know what, 0:17:55.804 --> 0:17:58.924 she's the best editor in chief CBS has seen. She 0:17:59.044 --> 0:18:02.804 revolutionizes it. She ends up being a free, independent voice 0:18:02.844 --> 0:18:06.444 who speaks truth to the Trump administration just as much 0:18:06.444 --> 0:18:09.764 as she spoke truth to the woke left, and who 0:18:09.884 --> 0:18:13.204 ends up making really good decisions, great hiring decisions, and 0:18:13.284 --> 0:18:15.964 makes CBS News vibrant and relevant. I would love for 0:18:16.004 --> 0:18:19.404 that to be the case CBS News. No, but we 0:18:19.484 --> 0:18:23.324 need someone good, and it has become much less vibrant. 0:18:23.724 --> 0:18:27.644 We need someone You're not even you're not engaging with 0:18:27.684 --> 0:18:31.164 what I'm saying. You're you're picking one little thing, and 0:18:31.524 --> 0:18:34.084 you need someone. As I said, CBS News has been 0:18:34.124 --> 0:18:37.124 falling for the last year, and this is actually more 0:18:37.284 --> 0:18:39.764 of the same. Right, it has lost some of its 0:18:39.924 --> 0:18:43.204 most prominent voices who have left or been forced out, 0:18:43.604 --> 0:18:46.284 and now they've hired Barry Weiss, which kind of doubles 0:18:46.324 --> 0:18:50.204 down on that. And I don't think Ellison has any 0:18:50.244 --> 0:18:53.444 desire to do anything other than make sure he gets 0:18:53.484 --> 0:18:55.284 a lot of money and gets the deals that he 0:18:55.324 --> 0:18:59.324 wants to go through and be approved by the Trump administration. Now, 0:19:00.004 --> 0:19:03.484 once again, as someone who has worked in television, I've 0:19:03.524 --> 0:19:07.484 worked for good producers bad producers. Like there's a huge difference, right, 0:19:07.524 --> 0:19:10.884 the shows don't just make themselves. You need good people 0:19:10.924 --> 0:19:14.604 there otherwise you're going to get absolute shit. And if 0:19:14.644 --> 0:19:17.364 you want a good CBS News, if that's the goal, 0:19:17.804 --> 0:19:22.044 then you know, is this was this the correct hire? 0:19:22.484 --> 0:19:26.684 And what is the future of a news organization where 0:19:26.964 --> 0:19:30.444 it seems like those values are being put aside for 0:19:30.684 --> 0:19:36.644 something that looks like instead of editorial freedom, editorial oversight. 0:19:39.284 --> 0:19:40.444 We'll be back right after this. 0:19:49.724 --> 0:19:53.044 The one I really got my goat was like John Oliver. 0:19:53.324 --> 0:19:55.444 I'm sure some of the readers like John Oliver. Maybe 0:19:55.444 --> 0:19:57.684 some don't fight them to their taste. I'm in the 0:19:57.924 --> 0:19:59.644 latter camp, even though I probably agree with him on 0:19:59.724 --> 0:20:02.884 some stuff, right, I find them kind of hectoring in luxury. 0:20:03.404 --> 0:20:07.164 So John Oliver was making them the same complaint you 0:20:07.244 --> 0:20:10.764 were that like Shay's dead and walked in excuse an 0:20:10.844 --> 0:20:13.724 editorial journalist, right, And like sometimes the facts are wrong, 0:20:13.764 --> 0:20:17.764 and it's like okay, Like you know, John Oliver takes 0:20:18.004 --> 0:20:24.324 predictable opinions from one side of a spectrum, mixes them 0:20:24.364 --> 0:20:28.644 with facts to a degree where it's sometimes ambiguous, kind 0:20:28.644 --> 0:20:31.604 of like what's an opinion and what's the fact? Right, 0:20:32.004 --> 0:20:35.844 and then states to them very confidently, and like, you know, 0:20:36.004 --> 0:20:38.084 for you to criticize Barry Wise of that, which I 0:20:38.084 --> 0:20:40.444 think might be a good characterization of some of what 0:20:40.484 --> 0:20:44.284 they do, right, it just seems like kind of hypocritical, 0:20:44.324 --> 0:20:47.164 And all these opinion journalists are like all his opinion journalists, 0:20:47.524 --> 0:20:49.244 Like why is in York Times have an opinion page? 0:20:49.284 --> 0:20:53.444 I write sometimes in your Times opinion page, right, you know, 0:20:53.564 --> 0:20:56.684 I don't know, right the opinion is actually a vertical 0:20:56.724 --> 0:20:59.284 It sells pretty well for the most part, and like, 0:20:59.324 --> 0:21:02.964 but it just seems to me like a lot of publications, 0:21:03.004 --> 0:21:05.124 including the big three networks pre Trump. I think a 0:21:05.124 --> 0:21:08.084 lot of things have changed now in the Trump era, right, 0:21:08.124 --> 0:21:14.564 but like there is an implicit is sometimes explicit, but 0:21:14.644 --> 0:21:18.964 an implicit left leaning bias, not far left, not Bernie 0:21:18.964 --> 0:21:23.964 Sanders Zoran bias left, their corporate right, maybe not quite 0:21:24.004 --> 0:21:27.284 my kind of center left either, but like on cultural issues. 0:21:27.724 --> 0:21:32.004 They're very progressive, and like what Barry does is kind 0:21:32.004 --> 0:21:37.324 of like give the progressive left, not the zoran left, 0:21:37.364 --> 0:21:39.324 the progressive kind of center left. I call it the 0:21:39.324 --> 0:21:42.604 indgo blob, this merger between on the one hand, non 0:21:42.684 --> 0:21:45.764 partisan media and then kind of like partisan institutions of 0:21:46.004 --> 0:21:48.844 the Democratic Party and the left. Right, she is taking 0:21:48.844 --> 0:21:54.164 that formula to produce on average center right leaning opinions 0:21:54.724 --> 0:21:58.004 with high production guyues, meaning you know, the stories are 0:21:58.084 --> 0:22:00.044 edited well in a sense of like they have a 0:22:00.084 --> 0:22:02.204 good lead paragraph, they have a good headline, they get 0:22:02.204 --> 0:22:05.044 promoted well on social media, they have attractive art to 0:22:05.084 --> 0:22:07.524 the extent that's possible depending on the type of story, 0:22:07.564 --> 0:22:10.324 and so forth. Right, And like that's kind of what 0:22:10.404 --> 0:22:12.684