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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Family man the dentist, his wife is dead of cyanide.

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Speaker 1: Did he recruit Hatties.

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Speaker 2: To lie for him in court? I'm Nancy Grace, this

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Angela Craig is a loving Colorado mom of six married

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Speaker 3: to esteemed dentist James Craig. But things go awry when

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Speaker 3: Angela is suddenly hospitalized with intense dizziness and pain.

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Speaker 1: How did the whole thing start? Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: After multiple recent hospital visits, Angela again checked into a

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Speaker 4: hospital Wednesday morning, complaining of a severe headache in dizziness.

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Speaker 4: Around two pm, she had a seizure, her condition rapidly declining,

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Speaker 4: doctors moving her to the ICU, where she was put

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Speaker 4: on life support before passing away Saturday, joining me an

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Speaker 4: all star panel to make sense of what we are

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Speaker 4: learning This mom.

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Speaker 2: Of six six and she's still really young as well.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, you know, college sweethearts.

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Speaker 2: Fall in love, they get married and immediately start having children.

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Speaker 2: That's how mom this young can have six children already.

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Speaker 1: And I don't get it.

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Speaker 2: I want to go straight out to Stephan Tubb's, host

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Speaker 2: of the podcast, Arsenic Dds The Bizarre Case of Doctor

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Speaker 2: James Craig, which is an incredible podcast by the way. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I've done all this investigation and research, and I learned

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Speaker 2: even more by listening to that Arsenic Dds The Bizarre

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Speaker 2: Case of Doctor James Craig. Stephan, I want to just

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Speaker 2: start with her symptoms, because you know, when I first

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Speaker 2: read and learned about this case, it reminds me so

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Speaker 2: much of another case. I don't know if you're familiar

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Speaker 2: with Colt Mom Laurie Valo and her prophet husband, well,

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Speaker 2: his wife Tammy, healthy as a horse in her early forties,

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Speaker 2: maybe forty one forty two, just kills over in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the night. And I found that very, very disturced.

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Speaker 2: She just ran a marathon for Pete's sake, and now

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Speaker 2: this mom, this young mom Angela, suddenly developed all these symptoms.

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Speaker 2: Nobody can figure out what's wrong with her, and she

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Speaker 2: just bam dies. Now tell me about her original sentence,

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Speaker 2: Stephan Tubbs.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, she got incredibly sick, and it wasn't just one

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Speaker 5: time in the hospital.

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Speaker 6: It was multiple times.

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Speaker 7: That she.

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Speaker 5: Was feeling nauseous, that she just didn't feel something was right.

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Speaker 5: Severe headaches, and she went to a local hospital the

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Speaker 5: first time to the er. He was discharged and then

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Speaker 5: went to this hospital like a week later.

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Speaker 1: It was stef Stephan.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, Stephan, I want to go straight

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Speaker 2: out to our shrink. Joining us in addition to incredible

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Speaker 2: panel of guests joining me Doctor Cheven Scott, psychotherapist, author

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Speaker 2: of the Minds of mass Killers.

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Speaker 1: So much more, Doctor Cheven, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever noticed how women's symptoms just get discounted.

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Speaker 2: They come in, I'm nauseous, i feel dizzy, I've got

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Speaker 2: this severe headache, and they're like, oh, you're fine, bye.

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Speaker 1: You have been over and over to Angela.

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Speaker 4: What is it?

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Speaker 1: Are all women quote hysterical?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, there's there's even something called the w W syndrome,

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Speaker 8: and that stands for whiney women, and medical doctors have

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Speaker 8: been known to talk about the women.

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Speaker 2: Wait wait, head blowing off right now?

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Speaker 1: What ww syndrohn? Is that what you just said?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, whiney woman.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I've read some women doctors have written books about

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Speaker 8: this problem in the medical profession where women are just

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Speaker 8: dismissed and not taken seriously.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got so much to say about that, but

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Speaker 2: it will get me totally sidetracked off. This woman angela

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Speaker 2: mother of six. Okay, back to you, Stephan Tubbs joining

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Speaker 2: me his research and investigated this case. Just to the detail, Stephan. So,

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Speaker 2: she had headaches, a severe headache.

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Speaker 1: I think from what I recall, that's.

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Speaker 2: What really made her decide to go to the hospital.

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Speaker 2: She was having nausea and felt dizzy, but it was

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Speaker 2: the headaches. I think she was worried that she was

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Speaker 2: having a stroke because the headache was so severe.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, she was very very ill. She was very very

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Speaker 5: concerned about her own health and safety. This is a

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Speaker 5: mother of six. Not all of the children were inside

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Speaker 5: the home, but she's incredibly sick and wondering how the

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Speaker 5: hell she got sick.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 2: My stomach feels fine, although at one point she said

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Speaker 2: she had nausea.

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Speaker 1: But my head.

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Speaker 2: Feels funny and dizzy, very strange.

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Speaker 1: I'm dizzy.

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Speaker 2: My eyes don't want to focus. I don't feel right

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Speaker 2: in my head.

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Speaker 1: No, this is just weird. I'm dizzy in my head.

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Speaker 2: My eyes are working slowly, my body's responding slowly. I

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Speaker 2: feel drugged. Response from husband the family man Dennis. Given

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Speaker 2: our history, I know that must be triggering. Just for

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Speaker 2: the record, I didn't drug you. Whoa okay, as Shakespeare

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Speaker 2: said me thinks that does protest too much, you know,

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Speaker 2: like when a cop walks by and go, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Have drugs on me. Anyway, Let's get back to it. Listen.

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Speaker 9: She was complaining or having a really nasty heady. She

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Speaker 9: was also complaining about her eyesight. She was having trouble focusing.

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Speaker 9: She said that she felt tingly. She said that she

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Speaker 9: felt cold. She's concerned that it could be as infection,

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Speaker 9: and then there's some conversation about maybe she's diabetic.

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Speaker 1: No one is able.

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Speaker 9: To find an answer for what is causing this otherwise

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Speaker 9: healthy mother of six to be feeling these horrendous symptoms.

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Speaker 9: She goes back a few days later, March ninth, same symptoms, nausea, dizziness, headaches,

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Speaker 9: even some vomiting. Again, the doctors can't figure out what's

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Speaker 9: wrong with her. They send her home, and then when

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Speaker 9: she goes back for a third time, that's when she's

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Speaker 9: checked in and her condition deteriorates quickly.

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Speaker 1: And there you.

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Speaker 2: See doctor Chavonne Scott with us who just dropped a

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Speaker 2: bombshell mommie about the WW syndrome, whiny woman syndrome.

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Speaker 1: Now we're on round three.

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Speaker 2: Okay, she's at the hospital a third time. They keep

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Speaker 2: sending her home and sending her home. Now she codes.

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Speaker 2: I guess that means todd read or whatever they call

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Speaker 2: it in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: When you're dying. Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, just a horrifying, horrifying situation for a young woman

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Speaker 8: to be in with no explanation. It's hard to imagine

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Speaker 8: how frightened she must have been.

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Speaker 2: Eric Fattest joining me, high profile trial lawyer, TV legal analysts,

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Speaker 2: founding partner Varner Fattest, elite legal, former felony prosecutor. Eric,

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Speaker 2: Don't you just hate it when you're own client who's

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Speaker 2: not charged with anything out of the blue said I

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Speaker 2: didn't drug you, Because that's what he said.

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Speaker 1: Nobody said he did drug anybody.

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Speaker 2: And all of a sudden he goes, just, FYI, I

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Speaker 2: didn't drug you. If my husband said FYI I didn't

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Speaker 2: drug you, I'm going to need a defense attorney because

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Speaker 2: who would jump up and say that unless they drug

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Speaker 2: the wife?

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Speaker 6: I hear you.

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Speaker 10: I mean, it's a curious statement, certainly suspicious in the

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Speaker 10: eyes of many. On the other hand, I think his

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Speaker 10: defense is going to argue that the marriage was on

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Speaker 10: the rocks. Things were tense things for dicey, and so

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Speaker 10: you know, people say things that in the huge of

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Speaker 10: an event like this, that that certainly could be triggering

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Speaker 10: for both parties. But yeah, the gravity of the statement

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Speaker 10: and sort of it coming out of nowheres is not

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Speaker 10: lost on triggering.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I don't know how that got popular

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Speaker 2: triggering for both parties. Are you telling me he the

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Speaker 2: dentist is triggered? What are you talking about? Why she's dead? Okay,

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Speaker 2: why are you talking about him getting triggered?

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Speaker 10: This conversation proceeded the death. What I was saying is that,

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Speaker 10: you know, when the relationship is super rocky, sometimes when

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Speaker 10: there are serious medical events that come up, or just

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Speaker 10: serious life events, those things can be can add to

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Speaker 10: the to the tenseness of the situation, the stress of

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Speaker 10: the situation, and he could have been experiencing distress as well,

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Speaker 10: and sometimes things come.

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Speaker 2: Out rocky rocky. That's what you call a string of

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Speaker 2: mistresses rocky. That's more like an earthquake.

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Speaker 10: It is a serious event which just could have further

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Speaker 10: been destabilizing for the relations when something serious happens, when

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Speaker 10: when your spouse is sick. I think defense is going

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Speaker 10: to argue that, hey, thanks were really distressing. Your was

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Speaker 10: heightened emotionality, and sometimes people just say things that's at

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Speaker 10: least some defense will likely Frank.

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Speaker 1: Who is this guy? Let's take a look.

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Speaker 11: My name is doctor Jim Craig and I practice as

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Speaker 11: summer Brook Dental Group. My approach to dentistry begins with

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Speaker 11: sincerely listening to the patient and wanting to find out

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Speaker 11: more about where they're coming from and what they're looking

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Speaker 11: for and what they want.

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Speaker 2: That's from the official Summerbrook Dentistry Facebook page. Well there's more.

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Speaker 1: That he's going to go visit a patient, a patient

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Speaker 1: I extract.

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Speaker 6: I'm here to do the work. So I had to

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Speaker 6: see me like this again last weekend was a little

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Speaker 6: bit of a shock. But here I am again, just

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Speaker 6: like the sorry, use it a little bit, exam. I

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Speaker 6: didn't mean good luck, Nicole. You don't have any cavities,

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Speaker 6: all take care of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what I saw.

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Speaker 2: That was from the official summer Brook Dentistry Facebook page.

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Speaker 2: But has the husband been working out in the gym

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Speaker 2: or are his arms just beefy.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now a special guest, Phil Waters, former

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Speaker 2: homicide detective from the Houston PD president's CEO Kindred Spirits

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Speaker 2: Investigations and Security. Phil, I know that Eric Fattis is

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Speaker 2: going to turn purple and tell me this means nothing.

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Speaker 2: But when you're a husband, the dentist who sits on

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Speaker 2: one of those little roly chairs all day long suddenly

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Speaker 2: starts working out and developing interest in getting spray to hands,

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Speaker 2: you better pay attention what's going on? You better find

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Speaker 2: out what's behind that. Did you see that video? Has

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Speaker 2: he been working out popping iron at the gym?

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Speaker 1: Because it looks like he has.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think so. In homicide, of course we'd call that.

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Speaker 6: A clue.

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Speaker 7: To watch his behavior and the things that he's doing there.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I guess in isolation for that setting, he

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Speaker 7: appears to be a very attentive dentist and he's really

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Speaker 7: into what he's doing, and he's trying to entertain his clients,

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Speaker 7: his patients as well as do the proper dental work

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Speaker 7: on them. In that particular setting, it does look like if,

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Speaker 7: of course, we don't know what the timeline here is

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Speaker 7: but if he's been hitting the gym and doing some

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Speaker 7: things that are trying to get his physique in a

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Speaker 7: better shape, that might be an indicator, of course to

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Speaker 7: his wife in a general sense that are you doing

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Speaker 7: this for me or are you doing this for some

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Speaker 7: other purpose?

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Speaker 2: Okay, take a look at this fattest and that's from

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Speaker 2: the summer Brook Dnastry facebook page.

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Speaker 1: Just where we're getting that. Do you say somebody's pomping

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Speaker 1: iron in the gym all of a sudden, he.

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Speaker 6: Does look a little jack there.

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Speaker 10: Defense is going to say, so what, Everyone is allowed

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Speaker 10: to take care of their own health. That's the homicide

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Speaker 10: detective just said. Maybe he was taking care of himself

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Speaker 10: to sort of rekindle the flame with his wife at

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Speaker 10: the time.

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Speaker 6: We just don't know.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 10: Even if the relationship was on the rocks and he

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Speaker 10: was preparing for something new, that's not a crime.

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Speaker 4: When Angela is admitted to the hospital for the third

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Speaker 4: time in two weeks, James Craig only stops at the

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Speaker 4: hospital for half an hour before going out to get

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Speaker 4: food for his wife. Craig returns an hour and a

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Speaker 4: half later and goes into Angela's room alone Just a

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Speaker 4: few minutes later, Angela has a severe seizure in her

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Speaker 4: vitals crash. While hospital staff attempt to revive Angela, Craig

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Speaker 4: takes photos of his unconscious wife. Angela is stabilized with

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Speaker 4: the ventilator, but to clear brain dead.

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Speaker 2: Takes photos of his wife Before we go to a

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Speaker 2: renowned physician and biomedical engineer, doctor Ernest Schiodo. Let me

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Speaker 2: go back to Stephan Tubbs, host of Arsenic Dds.

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Speaker 1: Stefan, why is he taking pictures of.

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Speaker 2: His wife as she's dying and they're desperately trying to

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Speaker 2: resuscitate her and she's got all kind of tubes in her?

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Speaker 1: Well, what happened?

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Speaker 5: He's at the foot of the bed and it's almost

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Speaker 5: as if he's almost halfway out of that room. Nancy,

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Speaker 5: it was bizarre to see for the first time, But

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Speaker 5: this is really the goodbye. I think he was taking

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Speaker 5: it for some of her family that were not in town.

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Speaker 6: She has a huge family. They mostly primarily live in Utah,

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Speaker 6: but he was there. He then calls the business partner

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Speaker 6: and his wife. They had all done things as couples before,

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Speaker 6: and this was the goodbye. When she was coding out

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Speaker 6: at CU Health and it was there that, to me,

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Speaker 6: the entire domino started to fall.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of Domino's falling to doctor Ernest Shaoto, not only physician,

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Speaker 2: but attorney, biomedical engineer, toxicologist, and author of Toxic tort,

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Speaker 2: Medical and Legal Elements.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Shayoto, thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure in your residency and in practicing medicine, you've

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Speaker 2: been in a lot of sick rooms and even death rooms.

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Speaker 2: Do you not find that bizarre that he is taking

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Speaker 2: pictures of his wife as she's coding out, in other words,

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Speaker 2: as hospital personnel are furiously trying to save her life

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Speaker 2: and he's taking pictures.

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Speaker 12: It's highly unusual, yes, doctor Chayoto.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever seen someone take photos of their wife

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Speaker 2: while they're trying to resuscitate her and bring her back

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Speaker 2: to life, you know, pounding on her chest, using those

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Speaker 2: electrical stimulators on her chest. Everybody's screaming, everybody's rushing into

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Speaker 2: the room, and he's in the corner taking pictures. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever seen that happen, doctor Chaoto? No, I haven't either,

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Speaker 2: and I have investigated, prosecuted, and covered. I can't even

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Speaker 2: count the number of deaths and homicides to doctor chevon Scott.

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Speaker 2: I'm right there, as Stephan Tubbs said, that was when

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Speaker 2: the weirdness was marked and noted when he was taking picture.

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Speaker 2: I don't care what he says, this is to send

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Speaker 2: to her extended family. That's bs technical legal term. What

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Speaker 2: does that mean?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know something's wrong with it, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it is.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a puzzle to me as well, because it

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Speaker 8: seems so out of the normal range of human behavior.

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Speaker 8: None of us can put ourselves in that situation and

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Speaker 8: imagine that we'd be picking up a camera as our

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Speaker 8: loved one was dying.

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Speaker 1: So what in the world was he doing.

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Speaker 8: I don't know that I have a good answer for that,

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Speaker 8: but it's definitely a red flag.

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Speaker 13: While his wife, Angela is fighting for her life in

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Speaker 13: the hospital, her devoted husband is emailing his mistress. James

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Speaker 13: told her something had happened to Angela, and she responded

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Speaker 13: with how sorry she was for him and that she

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Speaker 13: wished she was helping him, not pulling him away. She

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Speaker 13: stated she knew it had to be so hard what

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Speaker 13: he was going through and that she wanted to be

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Speaker 13: there for him, but did not want to mix with

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Speaker 13: his family and friends. And pretend to be only a

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Speaker 13: friend when there was something more.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's so hard on a mistress when she

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Speaker 2: has to pretend to just be friends in front of

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Speaker 2: his wife. I hate when that happens. Fattest, What do you.

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Speaker 1: Have to say to that?

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Speaker 2: What about when a jury here's about him while his

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Speaker 2: wife is lying there dying.

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Speaker 1: He's emailing his mistress, his hobbie, and she says, I

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Speaker 1: can't take it. I can't stand to act.

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Speaker 2: Like we're just friends when we're so much more. Has

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Speaker 2: everybody lost their minds?

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Speaker 10: On the surface, certainly problematic.

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Speaker 14: It's going to be difficult to neutralize for the defense,

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Speaker 14: you know, I think that they might consider something like,

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Speaker 14: you know, there have been instances where even a person's

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Speaker 14: wife has like given them an organ.

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Speaker 10: You know that there's this is like that, and then

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Speaker 10: there's still infidelity. There are still cheating. Human beings could

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Speaker 10: do underhanded stuff. They do stuff that is surprising that

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Speaker 10: it's hard to understand. And I think that that could

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Speaker 10: be what was going on here, and that could be

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Speaker 10: how the defense postures it to the jury.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's another whole thing there. Hold on

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Speaker 2: just a moment to a doctor chauven Scott. Many women

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Speaker 2: would tell you, not me, but many women would tell

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Speaker 2: you I'd rather my husband just go have sex with

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Speaker 2: somebody than to actually fall in love. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: my husband did either one. Basically, it's open marriage, open casket, bam.

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Speaker 1: That says it all. But some women would.

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Speaker 2: Prefer the husband, if they're going to do anything, to

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Speaker 2: just go have sex with somebody wham, bam done, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to falling in love with someone. Can you explain

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Speaker 2: that odd sentiment?

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Speaker 8: The difference between having that kind of deep attachment with somebody,

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Speaker 8: I guess would be the love. And so yeah, there

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Speaker 8: are even people who have very open marriages where sexual

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Speaker 8: exploits outside of the relationship are absolutely fine. But the

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Speaker 8: idea is that you always have your primary emotional bond

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Speaker 8: with your partner.

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Speaker 3: Colorado mom of six, Angela Craig spends the month of

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Speaker 3: March in and out of hospitals blaming of strange symptoms

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Speaker 3: for which doctors seem to have no answers. Meanwhile, her

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Speaker 3: dentist husband is receiving the sterious packages to his office.

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Speaker 2: You earlier heard podcast The Star of Arsenic Dds Stephan

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Speaker 2: Tubbs refer to Domino's began to fall. Well, here they

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Speaker 2: go listen, still in the parking lot.

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Speaker 15: After visiting Angela in the hospital, Ryan Redfern gets a

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Speaker 15: call from James Craig, his partner in Summerbrook. As Craig

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Speaker 15: starts to ask Redfern if he had said anything to

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Speaker 15: Angela's nurses, Redford cuts him off, saying he told the

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Speaker 15: nurses about the package Craig received at the office. Craig

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Speaker 15: says the package contained a ring for Angela, but Redfern replies,

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Speaker 15: it's not a ring. We know what's in there.

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Speaker 4: After their phone call, James Craig sends Ryan Redfern a

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Speaker 4: flurry of angry texts, accusing him of creating huge problems

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Speaker 4: by getting police involved without talking to him first. Craig

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Speaker 4: tells Redfern, if he really is a friend, he and

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Speaker 4: the remaining office employees will do not speak with cops anymore.

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Speaker 2: Huge red flag when somebody says, don't talk to the cop.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Stephen Tubbs tell me about

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Speaker 2: the dominoes. He said the dominoes began to fall. What

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Speaker 2: about the dental practice partner?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Ryan Redfern, some would consider him to be the

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Speaker 6: hero in this because he's the one that after the

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Speaker 6: phone call, and as you just outlined on the program,

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Speaker 6: he tells Jim via the cell phone. He says, Jim,

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Speaker 6: stop talking, get a lawyer to backtrack. We're talking about

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Speaker 6: arsenic that was allegedly purchased online. I mean, the computer

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Speaker 6: records at the dental practice were very easy for police investigators.

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Speaker 6: But it was the package of potassium cyanid that was

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Speaker 6: delivered to the actual dentist's office opened by some you

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Speaker 6: know employee. She starts to go what is this potassium synide?

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Speaker 6: She literally sees the skull and crossbones on the packaging.

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Speaker 6: She looks it up. She clicks in her mind.

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Speaker 5: Wait a minute, this is exactly these are the kinds

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Speaker 5: of symptoms that Angela Craig is experiencing. She then calls

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Speaker 5: red firm, the partner, and that's how the domino start

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Speaker 5: to fall.

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Speaker 1: Hey, joining me.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Ernest Toyoto attorney, physician, biomedical engineer, toxicologist and author

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Speaker 2: of Toxic Torque Medical and Legal Elements. Doctor Toyoto explain

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Speaker 2: what the symptoms of that particular poison would be.

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Speaker 12: Well, there's a number of different poisons involved, but cyanide,

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Speaker 12: you just really have very rapid loss of blood pressure,

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Speaker 12: loss of consciousness, and very rapid depth Parsnick, can you

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Speaker 12: get peripheral neuropathy, you get burning in the in your

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Speaker 12: hands and feet. It's more of a slow poison. It's

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Speaker 12: really interesting is the tetrahydral zoline, which is interestingly found

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Speaker 12: in eye drops to get the redness out of your eyes,

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Speaker 12: what they call an alpha agonist. It causes constriction of

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Speaker 12: blood vessels and that causes confusion, can cause loss of consciousness, coma,

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Speaker 12: and that sounds a lot more like the symptoms that

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Speaker 12: she was having in the hospital.

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Speaker 2: The wife, guys, we look carefully at the movements and

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Speaker 2: the actions leading up to her last hospitalization and what

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Speaker 2: led up to the previous two hospitalizations.

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Speaker 15: Listen, the husband and wife go for a run or

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Speaker 15: hit the gym together almost every day, and when they

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Speaker 15: return home, James Craig makes protein shakes or fruit smoothies

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Speaker 15: for breakfast, while Angela delves into getting the kids ready

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Speaker 15: for the day.

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Speaker 9: We think he was using to poison adula over the

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Speaker 9: course of several weeks, actually including it in her protein shape,

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Speaker 9: even helping her along or trying to reassure her when

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Speaker 9: she was complaining of sickness, dizziness, Nauga. He was sort

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Speaker 9: of still encouraging her to drink the fluid.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand something, Stephan Tubbs joining me. Isn't

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Speaker 2: it true that on a prior occasion she had gotten

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Speaker 2: stabilized and then he goes out and comes back and

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Speaker 2: brings her food like a doting husband in the hospital,

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Speaker 2: and suddenly she goes into seizures.

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Speaker 6: That's true. Yeah, she was in the hospital. Remember three

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Speaker 6: different times. She was in the.

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Speaker 5: Hospital, three different times. Reading the affidavit, which reads like

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Speaker 5: a bad Hollywood script, it looks like investigator Spiel. She

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Speaker 5: is consistently being offered the food and in primary fashion,

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Speaker 5: the protein shape while she's in and keep in mind

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Speaker 5: all of these text messages that are going back and forth.

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Speaker 5: Do you feel like a smoothie? Is there anything I

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Speaker 5: can bring you? And this goes on for the better

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Speaker 5: part of the month of March.

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Speaker 2: Stephan Tubbs, are you telling me he would email her

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Speaker 2: or text her in the hospital say can I bring

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Speaker 2: you a smoothie?

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Speaker 5: One thousand percent that is in the affidavit. I've seen

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Speaker 5: the screenshots of the text messages. She's in the hospital

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Speaker 5: three different times, there's text messaging. I mean dozens and

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Speaker 5: dozens of them, if not hundreds of them, going back

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Speaker 5: and forth, do you feel like something? What do you

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Speaker 5: feel like? Can I bring you anything? And it was

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Speaker 5: usually in the form of a smoothie, and then.

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Speaker 1: The other shoe drops listen.

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Speaker 16: With suspicions raised, Angela Craig is sent for an autopsy

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Speaker 16: with additional toxicology screening. Test reveal the otherwise healthy mom

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Speaker 16: of six died of poisoning from both sinide and tetrahydrozolene,

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Speaker 16: a common ingredient in eye drops. While investigators have no

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Speaker 16: definite evidence Angela's food and drinks were poisoned with cyanide,

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Speaker 16: the test reveal her cyanide levels increased while she was

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Speaker 16: in the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Stephan Tubbs her levels increased while she's in the hospital.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that was probably the biggest shocker in

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Speaker 5: a shocking story in the Denver metro area that we

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Speaker 5: got wored and read the autopsy. Her levels of cyanide

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Speaker 5: increased while.

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00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 6: She's in the hospital. I mean, to me, it was

441
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 6: and remains unprecedented.

442
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 5: I've never heard a story like that, and doctors didn't

443
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 5: know again what they were looking for right, And it

444
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 5: was just when the domino started to fall and people

445
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 5: started to talk the business partner that they started to

446
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 5: look into Wait a minute, these are the signs of poisoning.

447
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 6: And certainly we know what the autopsy revealed.

448
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: But I mean, to me, Stephan, it would all blow

449
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 2: up when the dental assistant opens up the package and

450
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: it's cyanide.

451
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 5: Oh remember though, Nancy, it was supposed to be a

452
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 5: ring for Angela. I mean, the Kaka Maimi stories just

453
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 5: were over and over.

454
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: Where do you get cyanide? Stefan, You can just order

455
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 2: it up on Amazon? I mean, where do you get cyanide?

456
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 5: So one of the two there were purchase orders for

457
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 5: Amazon dot Com, which was amazing. I can't believe it

458
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 5: was either cyanide or the potassium shie.

459
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: That was a joke. Are you serious? You can get

460
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: cyanide on Amazon?

461
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 6: There you go, right there on your screen. Yeah, I'm

462
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 6: going to buy this on Amazon. First of all, somebody

463
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 6: bezos arsenic, Yeah, Arsenic, but you yeah. And then at this.

464
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: Podcast left inside residence's mailbox, so I guess he thought

465
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: he was being super smart by having it delivered to

466
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: the dentist office.

467
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: So his wife wouldn't find the arsenic.

468
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 6: Right, don't open this?

469
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: Okay, So what happened Stephan When the dental assistant opens

470
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: up a box and it's arsenic?

471
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 5: I think her eyes about bugged out of her head,

472
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 5: is what happened. She sees this package, she opens it up.

473
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 5: Another office assistant came in and said, you weren't supposed

474
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 5: to open that. Well, cats out of the bag. She

475
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 5: sees the skull and crossbones, and then she again puts

476
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 5: the pieces together. Wait a minute, potassium cyanide. She calls

477
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 5: doctor Redfern, the partner of Jim Craig, and says, uh,

478
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 5: you got a package here, and then that's where you

479
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 5: pass forward, you know. Redfern confronts Jim Craig and says,

480
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 5: why are you buying potassium cyanide for the dental practice?

481
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 6: And of course the lie was, oh, that's really it's

482
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 6: a gift. It was it was a ring for Angela.

483
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 6: Well there was no ring inside.

484
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 2: Doctor Earnest Scioto joining us, a renowned physician and lawyer

485
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: and author. Doctor Chioto, she couldn't taste something odd in

486
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: her protein shakes. I mean, what does arsenic or cyanide

487
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: tastes like.

488
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 12: Arsak's gonna taste sort of him a dialet sort of taste,

489
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 12: whereas cyanide really wouldn't. Sometimes it is in order of

490
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 12: bitter almonds. So whether or not she could taste the

491
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 12: artsnake or cyanide would really be a matter of how

492
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 12: much was in the shape. His small amount, you may

493
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 12: not taste it.

494
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 9: He clearly thought he was more intelligent than he was.

495
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 9: He was using a different computer in his dentist practice,

496
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 9: the one that he owned, and then he had this

497
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 9: alternate email address. I think it was something along the

498
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 9: lines of Jim and Wattles at gmail dot com, at

499
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 9: gmail or at AOL or at hotmail dot com. I

500
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 9: don't recall which you exactly, but hardly a criminal mastermind.

501
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 9: He was actually in two million dollars of personal debt,

502
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 9: and it was because he made some really terrible investments

503
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 9: in some dodgy cryptocurrency turned out to be worth absolutely nothing.

504
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 9: He gambled the family with these really risky investment choices,

505
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 9: and then by the time we came to find out

506
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 9: about him, he was really up to his neck. He

507
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 9: filed for personal bankruptcy he felt it, or professional bankruptcy.

508
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: Oh, my Stars.

509
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: Eric fattis renowned attorney. Don't you just hate it when

510
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: your mastermind client just uses a fake email to find

511
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: out all about cyanide and order arsenic from Amazon?

512
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: That really worked well, Nancy.

513
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 10: You know that there is a potential alternative explanation as

514
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 10: to why I was doing that, As we've talked about,

515
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 10: his marriage of twenty three years was on the rocks.

516
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 10: He had filed for bankruptcy twice, he had a history

517
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 10: of depression. A syanide could be used to hurt others,

518
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 10: but it can also be used to hurt oneself, and

519
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 10: that's something that one might not want to broadcast to

520
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 10: other people and might use surreptitious means to try to procure,

521
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 10: which it sounds like you do.

522
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: You know, Eric, you know it's something you've got to

523
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: tell better, inform you about it before you go to Vegas.

524
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: The crazier your arguments get, the faster you talk. And

525
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: I love that about you, and I'm telling you because

526
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: I really don't think you can stop yourself. But that said,

527
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 2: so you're suggesting now you're just spinning it out right

528
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: like you're throwing a frisbee.

529
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: You're just throwing it at me.

530
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: That he really ordered the cyanide in the arsenic for himself, right,

531
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: you just.

532
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 10: Say it's equally consistent with that?

533
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: What about this?

534
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: Have you ever had a client try to suborn perjury

535
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: kind of a deal Dentures for perjury listen.

536
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 17: According to prosecutors, this isn't the first time James Craig

537
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 17: has tried to recruit fake witnesses. James Craig gets friendly

538
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 17: with several inmates at the Arapa Ho Detention Center and

539
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 17: learns William Billy Walden's mother hates her dentures but can't

540
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 17: afford implants. Craig asks Walden to let him talk to

541
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 17: his mom the next time he gives a recall Over

542
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 17: the phone. Craig tells Rebeka Walden he'll give her a

543
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 17: brand new set of teeth when he gets out, saying

544
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 17: he's certain to get off because he didn't kill his wife.

545
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 17: Craig gets Walden's address and tells her he'll give her

546
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 17: more details in a letter.

547
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: So faddest Dancers for Perjury.

548
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 10: Thoughts not the best deal, certainly a bad look. But

549
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 10: on the other hand, defense is going to say, hey,

550
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 10: look he was He's been in jail for a long time.

551
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 10: He's been adamant about his innocence. He's getting desperate. He

552
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 10: needs to do something to try to change things. And

553
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 10: this is the sort of hair brain scheme he came

554
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 10: up with. It's problematic, but doesn't mean he committed murder.

555
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I had a funny feeling you would say that

556
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: about the dentures for perjury scheme?

557
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: Well, what about haughties for dentures? Hatties at O T

558
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: T I E S listen fattest.

559
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 15: In early twenty twenty four, a letter from Craig to

560
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 15: Rebecca Walden, inmate William Walden's mother, was returned to the

561
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 15: Rappa Hood Detention Center as undeliverable. The letter contains an

562
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 15: offer to provide Rebecca Walden with free dental implants if

563
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 15: she recruits several young, attractive women to pose as Craig's

564
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 15: affair partners. Craig instructs Walden to have the women tell

565
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 15: authorities that Angela confronted them about Craig's affairs, then recruited

566
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 15: them to help her frame Craig for her murder.

567
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: Okay, what happens, Stephan Tubbs, where do the hotties enter

568
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 2: the scene?

569
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 5: In a desperate plea to get out of the Arapaho

570
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 5: County jail. I mean, at this point, there's no death

571
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 5: penalty in Colorado.

572
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 6: He has nothing to lose. He's been accused of trying

573
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 6: a solicitation for murder of the lead detective.

574
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 5: In this I mean, it's not just the hotties or

575
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 5: the free teeth or whatever. Jim Craig is trying any

576
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 5: way that he can, at least according to those of

577
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 5: us following the case closely watching him do whatever he

578
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 5: can to possibly grasp at straws to convince one juror

579
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 5: once this thing finally.

580
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 6: Starts to create that doubt. But it's been crazy. The

581
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 6: hits just keep on coming.

582
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 5: Literally, less than two weeks ago, had a guy reach

583
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 5: out to me. Don't know him from anybody, He says, Hey,

584
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 5: I was serving in the Appaho County detention facility with

585
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 5: Craig until last October.

586
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 6: You won't believe what he told me. He even gave

587
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 6: me a letter.

588
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 5: I haven't seen the letter yet, but it's just it's crazy,

589
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 5: and it continues in.

590
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 16: The letters to Constantinidis, Craig offers a blank check in

591
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 16: exchange for spoofed texts, phone records, and doctored photographs that

592
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 16: can help convince authorities Constantinidis knew Angela in life and

593
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 16: that the mom.

594
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: Of six was suicidal.

595
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 16: After learning of his latest affair, Craig details some of

596
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 16: his previous affairs in the letter, admitting he first cheated

597
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 16: on Angela with a patient in two thousand and nine,

598
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 16: and provides personal information about his children in an attempt

599
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 16: to make their lives seem credible.

600
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, I don't really know which way to

601
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: turn here, but I'm going to go back to Eric Faddis,

602
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: veterin trial lawyer, defense attorney. In all seriousness, I've been

603
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: pulling your leg a little bit with the fantastical nature

604
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: of some of the facts we're learning.

605
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: But we have a mother of six dead, not just dead,

606
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: but suffering.

607
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: For months from sinide and arsenic poisoning before she died.

608
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you say it's not the husband. I say it is.

609
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: He's still innocent. He has not been proven guilty in

610
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: a court of law.

611
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: But let's just take a look at what we're hearing

612
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: right now. Not only did he.

613
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: Try to arrange quote Hattie's attractive women to claim they

614
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: were his sex partners, to tell authorities his dead wife

615
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: confronted him about his affairs and that she was going

616
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: to commit suicide. So your suicide fantasy is actually hatching

617
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: in the defendant's mind.

618
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: All right, So he's taking.

619
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: Your cue, but he's soliciting, suborning, for lack of a

620
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: better word, per injury by Hatties to say his dead

621
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: wife confronted them. Not only that he has a dancers

622
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: for perjury scheme with somebody else. Now we're learning, according

623
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: to Stephan Tubbs, we're learning he tried to order a

624
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: hit on a detective. Have a detective murdered? What about it?

625
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: You know?

626
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 10: I think what he'll say is that a person who

627
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 10: feels that they are innocent, they are being railroaded, They

628
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 10: have been in jail for a long period of time,

629
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 10: months and months, that they don't feel like they have

630
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 10: a way to get out, they're going to resort to

631
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 10: desperate acts. And perhaps in his mind he thought that, hey,

632
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 10: if I eliminate the head hop show in this investigation,

633
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 10: perhaps the investigation falls apart. Certainly not lawful, certainly not okay,

634
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 10: but also not the same thing as proving him guilty

635
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 10: of murdering his wife.

636
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: Doctor Ernest Shoto joining us renowned physician and author not

637
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: to what does a victim experience as they die from

638
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 2: cyanide or arsenic poisoning?

639
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 12: Well, if it's they're they're going to be different. Arsenic

640
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 12: is going to be sort of a slow agonizing gap,

641
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 12: or as cyanide is going to be very rapid. You

642
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 12: know you're really going to end up with sufficient cyanide,

643
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 12: You're going to end up dying with the moments. So

644
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 12: there are really two different types of gap due to

645
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 12: two very different.

646
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: Toxic Doctor feel Waters joining us former homicide detective Houston, PD,

647
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: president of Kindred Spirits Investigations dot com. You know, Peel,

648
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: you and I have handled a lot of murders, a

649
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: lot of homicides, be they involuntary, voluntary, or mouse murder.

650
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: It takes a special kind of mind. Would you agree, Phil?

651
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: This is not getting angry and pulling a gun and shooting.

652
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: This is months and months of planning, of scheming, of

653
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 2: Google searches, and lovingly feeding your wife protein shakes laced

654
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: with poison and then watching her suffer.

655
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 7: Phil, well, exactly, you know this is a This is

656
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 7: an evil act on this guy's part. I won't even

657
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 7: recognize him by saying his name and we see this.

658
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 7: This is he is obsessed with killing his wife. Murdering

659
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 7: his wife, the mother of his six children. And this

660
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 7: is something that for as you put it, for months,

661
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 7: has been thinking about this every minute of every day.

662
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 6: And so when he's going into.

663
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 7: These search engines and trying to figure out what kind

664
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 7: of poison is the best one to us and that

665
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 7: kind of thing. I'll tell you what, it's just I

666
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 7: hope he's a better dentist than he was a murderer,

667
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 7: because what he did is idiotic in terms of trying

668
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 7: to accomplish the task, which is murder his wife and

669
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 7: try to have some sort of a story that's going

670
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 7: to take the suspicion away from you. Everything he did

671
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 7: in the process here pointed to him. So when we

672
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 7: get in these investigations, we always look for affirmative links.

673
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 7: We let the evidence take us where we need to be,

674
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 7: and it's always a journey for the truth. In this particular,

675
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 7: I listened to the defense with all due respect, these

676
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 7: episodes of isolation that we're talking about, where you know,

677
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 7: he's cheating, that didn't make him a murder, and so

678
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 7: on and so on. This has to be looked at

679
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 7: in a timeline of events if we can determine when

680
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 7: this started, and then of course we know where it

681
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 7: ended and what were the events that occurred in between

682
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 7: that got us to that point. You know, this taking

683
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 7: pictures and so forth of the of his wife in

684
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 7: the hospital when she's dying. You know, when I was

685
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 7: listening to that discussion, I'm more prone to believe that

686
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 7: he was going to use those pictures to gain some

687
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 7: sympathy from the woman that he was wanting to a

688
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 7: squire around. So you know, he had a purpose for

689
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 7: all the things that he did, and it was just

690
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 7: it was just kind of stupid.

691
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 6: Is as stupid does?

692
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 7: It just continued to get more idiotic as he went

693
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 7: through this process, thinking that what people are going to

694
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 7: believe this story that he's come up with.

695
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: And and you know another thing, phil as you and

696
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: I you as a homicide detective, me as a felony prosecutor,

697
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: we would go about our business every day not thinking

698
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: that and in eight behind Bars is trying to have

699
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: us killed, have us killed to thwart the investigation. I

700
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: bet you never thought about that while you were detecting.

701
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 7: No, when I worked in narcotics, I did have a

702
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 7: contract put out on me, so I'm a little familiar

703
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 7: with it.

704
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: But we all, for Pete's sake, we've all gotten death rests.

705
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: The first one I had was faxed over from the

706
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: Fulton County Jail. Didn't take too much to figure that

707
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: one out. But yes, yes, the level of arrogance to

708
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: think you can get away with everything and fix it

709
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 2: all by doing a dentures for perjury scheme and having

710
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: the lead detective murdered. If you know or think you

711
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: know anything about this case, whether you were an inmate

712
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: or a patient or a lover, it doesn't matter. This

713
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: woman is dead and probably her last thoughts were who's

714
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 2: gonna take care of my children? Please dial the tip

715
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: line seven two zero nine one three stop seven two

716
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: zero nine one three seven eight six seven as the

717
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 2: state continues to build its case.

718
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,