1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: And That's what you Really missed with Jenna. 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: And Kevin An iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Podcast Welcome to You, and That's what You Really miss podcast, 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: Hello Caver, Hello Jenna. How are you feeling? I'm sick again, 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: Winter in New York. 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm over it. 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: Winter in New. 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: It's also I don't normally ever get like I normally 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: get sinus infections and strapped throat and tom slidis for 10 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 2: all of you interested, So what's It's just a cold? 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: Every time it's a cold, and like you can't really 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: do anything to get rid of a cold, like you 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: just have to wait. 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: It's like going to preschool again, Like I around a 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: lot of people and like, yes, you know you're touching 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: stuff and like I don't. 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: Yes, there's always at least one person who's sick, and 18 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: if anyone's going to get it. 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: It's you. That's like my daughter, my baby May it's 20 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: a gemrat. She goes to school and they're like, well, man, 21 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: oh oh. 22 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: You and I were talking the other day and I 23 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 2: brought up how intense like fan culture has become. Yeah, 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: and because you know, I'm a little too online, I'm 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: on social media a little too much, a little too tapped. 26 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: In if you will, well. 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: At least one of us tapped in. 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: No, I don't know if that's good. I don't know 29 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: if either of us should be tapped in. And I 30 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: was just thinking about it because obviously, like the word 31 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: parasocial has been around for a long time, and like 32 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: it just become like a really intense thing. And through 33 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: Peter Rivalry coming out the end of the year and 34 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: my algorithm specifically, there's a lot of that. The parasocialness 35 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: of it all has just become like really intense. 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: And I want to talk about that because I don't 37 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: know what that correlation is with that whole thing. 38 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's just sort of like a symptom. 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: And we were talking about and You're like, I don't 40 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 2: really know what this is. I was like, okay, great, 41 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: let's save it for the pod and let's talk about it. Yeah, 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: And then I was looking into it and I was like, 43 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: oh lo and behold, the twenty twenty five word of 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 2: the Year for the Cambridge Dictionary was parasocial. 45 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: Get out what. I had never really heard this before 46 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: about two weeks ago, and then it came up twice 47 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: from you and I was listening to a podcast that 48 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: was discussing it and I was like, what is happening? 49 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: But I did not know it was Cambridge's word. Weird. 50 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just and it's the thing. It's like we 51 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: all interact with it and have always interacted with this 52 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 2: type of relationship. 53 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and so okay. 54 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: So parasocial technically, like the Dictionary definition, is relating to 55 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: a one sided emotional connection in which a person feels 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: personally connected to a public figure, creator, or fictional character 57 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: who does not know them, often strengthened through media, social 58 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: media platforms, or repeated exposure. So I think for you 59 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: and I growing up like this happened. I like the 60 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: way I remember it is like around the house or 61 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: if I went to like the hair salon or nail 62 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: salon with my mom and people would have like tabloid 63 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: magazines like Star or whatever it may be, and you're 64 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 2: like obsessing about. 65 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: Their lives and what they're shopping and what they're wearing, 66 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: and what they're seating and what there's in their bag 67 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: and what they're doing and yeah, who they're doating, yes. 68 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: Which is all just like a big part of fame, right, 69 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: like totally we're used to that. We know what that 70 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: looks like or I feel like it has gotten a 71 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: little more intense. 72 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: No, would you say, I don't know lies on the internet. 73 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Internet and social media has just made it 74 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: more accessible and more perceivable by the actual people like 75 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: fans are talking about. 76 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that social media made it feel like 77 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: it's two sided, so it's not so parasocial, but it 78 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: felt like an exchange. 79 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: I think so because I think the person who is 80 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: being talked about, let's say, for lack of a better word, celebrity, Yeah, 81 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: who might be being talked about, didn't necessarily have a 82 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: way probably for the best to directly respond to these 83 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: things or even see like someone is not in your 84 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: home or the hair salon or nail salon or people's 85 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: place of work when they're talking about these celebrities, so 86 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: they're not seeing exactly what people are saying about them. 87 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: They're not directly involved in the conversation. Right on TikTok 88 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: on Instagram I've spoken to, they're being spoken too, and 89 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: it spreads a lot further, a lot faster, obviously. Yeah, 90 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: And I do think like the intensity in which people 91 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: are talking about these things has also increased because of 92 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: social media. You can just say things and get away 93 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: with that because you're like safe behind a screen. 94 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: Right. 95 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: So, like even today there was some like vague tweet 96 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: about somebody talking about somebody's agent and critiquing like, oh, 97 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: thank god they switched agencies and now they're already doing 98 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: this thing and you're like, oh, you know, I'm like, oh, 99 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: it's And none of this is to say like I'm 100 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: not scolding anybody. I just think it's fascinating and I 101 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: feel like, yeah, I feel like it's interested in talking 102 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: about it just to see like how and why it's 103 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: here and like what is. 104 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just showing up in so many different and 105 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: it's showing in very different ways, right, Like the parasocial 106 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: that I was referencing that came up in my feed 107 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: was and I'm sure a lot of people know about this. 108 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: I won't give any spoilers, but the podcast That's That's 109 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: Dead from Monica Padman from Armchair Expert and two podcasters 110 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: tell their story of this wild journey of why they 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: stopped doing their wildly successful podcast because of fan interaction. 112 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: It was like an advice column. It really involved the 113 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: interaction of speaking to the fans giving them advice, like 114 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: guiding them through Elizabeth, one of the hosts. She got 115 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: very involved with some of these listeners and it went 116 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: down a really deep rabbit hole. I'm not going to 117 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: give any spoilers, so you guys can go listen to it, 118 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: But there is an element within it of this one 119 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: sided parasocial relationship that she was having. 120 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and oh yeah. 121 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: No, it's coming up on social media, it's coming up 122 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: through podcasts, coming up through all the mediums of entertainment 123 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: and anywhere. Really probably because of the Internet. But this started, 124 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: I mean, and this, like you said, this started so 125 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: many many many years ago, and then decades ago, the 126 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: Internet just you know, took it to another level of 127 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: speed and like the instant gratification or a response of 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: it all. 129 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: So I think it's just interesting that there's always been 130 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: like with like widespread media, there's always been some form 131 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: of this, right, and so like as a media adapted 132 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: has adapted and changed and evolved, so has like a 133 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: parasocial relationship adapted and involved. And like, I guess it 134 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: all goes back to the feeling of like somebody is connected, 135 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: they're like emotionally invested or financially invested with the thing 136 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: I think about how invested. This is like a really 137 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: obvious one. And again I'm not saying any of like 138 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: all this is negative, right, yeah, because I think like 139 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: when you create something, if you are a singer or 140 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: an actor or whatever it is, whatever you're putting out 141 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: into the world, you want people to engage with it. 142 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: You want people to talk about it. 143 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: You want it to beeple, to resonate, to connect. 144 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are ways to harness that for good. 145 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 146 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: Like think about somebody like Taylor Swift, who has been 147 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: famous for. 148 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: So long, yeah, since she was a. 149 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: Teen, and has written very personally about her life. That 150 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: is part of the dynamic with the fans right where 151 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: it's like you are rooting for her because she talks 152 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 2: about rooting for her. She let you in, Yes, because 153 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 2: she does let you in intentionally, and that is a 154 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: part of the exchange between artists and fan. 155 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: Yes, she she is on the extreme level of the 156 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: artists to fan relationship, right, Like she not only is 157 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: very public about most of her romantic relationships and then 158 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: obviously with Travis Kelsey, but like all along the way, 159 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: like you know, in her past. And then there's also 160 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: like I think about I was thinking about Taylor and 161 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: I you know, I'm a swift ye. I love I 162 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: love that what she did with her fans, And I 163 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: wonder if this plays into that. I mean it does, Like, 164 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: but what part of it that she would have like 165 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: fans in her house and bake them cookies and let 166 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: them listen to her album early It wasn't a listening 167 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: party for executives like she had real fans come in. 168 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: She welcomed them to enter her home. Like there's some 169 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: element of she chose to do that, right, Yeah, And 170 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that's like why if that's part of 171 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: the intensity of her fans, because her fans are on 172 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: that side of like, you know, they will they will 173 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: go to bat for her even if she doesn't ask 174 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: them to, you know, And so I think there's like 175 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: the extreme of that of that kind of fandom. And 176 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: then there's that you know, don't engage at all, have 177 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: no social media, so you know, well then. 178 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: It's sort of like the avalanche effect because then it's like, Okay, yeah, 179 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: and now I'm going to go to bat for you, 180 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: and then I sort of do the work of like 181 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: promoting you when like you're off the clock. Sort of thing, 182 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: you know, which I think they take on, which probably 183 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 2: feels fun. Like listen, I do it too for certain people. Yeah, yeah, 184 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: I absolutely will. And I think that that's fun, that's healthy. 185 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: You can build a community, you find your people through that. 186 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: I think where sort of like the I don't know, 187 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: darker side of it or unhealthier side where it feels 188 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: like it's crossing a line is like okay, let's say, 189 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: let's get's continue with the Taylor Swift reference, where it's 190 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: like where those fans who feel like now they know 191 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 2: her are then like being negative or going after like 192 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: other exes for like the years to come totally right, yes, 193 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, well these are real people, we're 194 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: having real relationships. Yeah, she's moved on, and like you 195 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: don't have any personal it's a weird thing of like 196 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 2: right and one breath, you do have this personal connection 197 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: with this person who has let you in musically or 198 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 2: through whatever it may be. But at the same time. 199 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: And that other person though, who's kind of like on 200 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: the default let it right and then also didn't ask 201 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: for that and maybe did, but like you know, there's 202 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: some element that's like we we've gone too far when 203 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: we're not allowing we're not going directly to Taylor, we're 204 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: going beyond the fan, you know the person. 205 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and that I feel like it's also like 206 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: related to you know, when things everybody became like so 207 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: overly politically correct, where we like over corrected. Yeah, or 208 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes you're defending things that don't need 209 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: defending what you're doing, Like the people who you're defending 210 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: did not ask you to defend them. I feel like 211 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: it is that same sort of like yeah thing where 212 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, maybe we don't need to and it's 213 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 2: like and it feels like like the relationships or like 214 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: the celebrity like treatment is a part of the product. 215 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: And it has been again like that when we grew up, 216 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: it was in the tabloids or whatever. But it just 217 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: feels like now like proximity. 218 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: It's become much more intimate. 219 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: It feels very intimate where it feels like sometimes scary. 220 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: I brought up the heated Rivalry thing because he Rivalry 221 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: came out in like November December is very recent, very recent, 222 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: and they have like an explosive the two main stars 223 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: and two of the other ones too. There's like four 224 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: main people in the show. 225 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and. 226 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: They've just been they've blow them up overnight. 227 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you do, Yeah, as you do. 228 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: And it's also like great and incredible to see because 229 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 2: that does not happen very often. 230 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, carry in the Olympic torch. 231 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: Literally, yeah, even you know that. 232 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: Yeah I knew that. Yeah, I do a little bit, 233 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: see what I mean like, yeah, yeah, you haven't watched 234 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: the show, but you know that. Yeah. 235 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: But then online people are like fully speculating about sexualities, 236 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: which is like have we learned nothing from Kit from 237 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: Heartstopper where it's like, oh lord, we don't need to 238 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: do this. 239 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: Yeah. 240 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then this gets into an even bigger thing 241 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: and I wonder how you've or if you've thought about it. 242 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: Where do you remember during Glee? Yeah, where when we 243 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: went to Disneyland that first time. 244 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: With Chris and with Chris Yeah, and oh my. 245 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: God, fans that would come up to Chris were so 246 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: much more intense. Yes, definitely than anybody else. 247 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. 248 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: And I think we can chalk that up to gay 249 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 2: people were not often represented on telling. 250 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: Me right right? The remportation shape was few and far between. 251 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 2: Yes, So Chris, get one in your life yeah, became 252 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: a very very important figure. But within that people felt 253 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: comfortable and that they felt like they could touch him. 254 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: They feel like they could come up and just like 255 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 2: tell them their entire life stories, which like, yeah, you 256 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: love that people connect with the show so much, But 257 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: it was also scary for him. 258 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: Well he became a hermit because he did not leave 259 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: his house. And and it's I think it's it's just 260 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: a product. It's also like a matter of who that 261 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: person is and who they are to themselves, right, Like 262 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: Chris was like, this doesn't feel like I'm you know, 263 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: whatever he felt. I'm not going to put a feeling 264 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: on him, but like you know, and was like, I'm 265 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: gonna react this way versus somebody else who takes on 266 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: that same role and reacts differently. Correct, But there is 267 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: something about that and are you and so are you 268 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: saying now? Like in like queer media and like queer 269 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: representation of these like really big starring roles where they 270 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: become icons of some sort, like is it due to 271 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: the lack of representation. 272 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: Well, that's where I feel like Heat Rivalry is particularly 273 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: complicated because so it's a book about a series about 274 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: queer people, but the book was written by a woman, 275 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 2: and a lot of the fans of that, like men 276 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: Loving Men genre, are cystendered straight women. And so that's 277 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 2: where it's complicated to me, because what I see online 278 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: about people talking about them is a lot of entitlement 279 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: one over sexuality, two over sort of like and this 280 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: happens with not just them, but in gen role like 281 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: a policing of behavior. There's a policing of who people 282 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: date or who people hang out with in real life, 283 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: in real life of like who their friends are where, 284 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: And that happens not just with these people, that happens 285 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: with everybody people talk about again, going by Taylor Scheff 286 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: to Taylor show's friends are or I saw something a 287 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago talking about another celebrity and being like, oh, 288 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: she can't be trusted to date the right person. 289 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, right, we've gone. We've gotten to the 290 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: place of judgment. 291 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: And well it's also like who are who are? Like 292 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: who are we to to be able to put ourselves 293 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 2: in those people's shoes and. 294 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: What's right and wrong? 295 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, like very different life experiences here. And what 296 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: I worry about is these the two main guys from 297 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: Heater Rievory are Younger're like twenty five or twenty six, 298 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: and they've exploded overnight. 299 00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which I'm. 300 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: Really happy for them because you know how hard it 301 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: is to be a part of something that is so 302 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: beloved and people care about. And they're very talented. Everybody 303 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: in the show is very talented. But what I worry 304 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 2: about is sort of like what I you know, so 305 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 2: on Chris's eyes when he would get mobbed, is that 306 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 2: I worry about like their physical and emotional like well 307 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: being health, yes, because it's like, look, that's not as 308 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 2: we say when filming Glee. It's like we're not curing 309 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: cancer here. Like we're all here having a good time 310 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 2: doing something we love and it's I think with a 311 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: lot of people, and we love that. But it's like 312 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: the fan expectation so and like the entitlement I feel 313 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 2: like needs to be sort of reined in a bit. 314 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 2: And it's like people, especially when you're young, you go out, 315 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: you make mistakes, you do things like you're supposed to 316 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: do that. Just because you're all of a sudden famous overnight, 317 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 2: like doesn't mean you're you're the pope, you know, doesn't 318 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: mean that you're going to make every decision is right, 319 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 2: in correct. 320 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: Right exactly. Yes, So I think it's it's it's an 321 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: added pressure on the side of the artist that wasn't 322 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: like that they may not be equipped for right, like 323 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: not having the tools to be like, oh I I 324 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: didn't realize that. Along with along with my job, my 325 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: page job, there's this added element now of helping the 326 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: like giving the fans what they you know, what this 327 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: thing that I'm supposed to that I'm expected to uphold, 328 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: this is, you know. And I think on the other 329 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: side of it, how easy is it with the internet 330 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: to stand behind your computer And I'm not saying like 331 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: everybody's like this, and I'm not saying this is always 332 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: a bad thing, but how easy is it to be 333 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: so persuaded by other people saying something like you get 334 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: pulled in and it's so simple. It's like being in 335 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: a group of people where you're like, oh, are we 336 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: talking about somebody? We're talking about somebody? We're talking about somebody, 337 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: and you're in it and you're like, oh my god, 338 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: and you walk home You're like, that did not feel 339 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: good and that's not who I want to be. Yes, yes, 340 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: And there's an element with these with the fan side 341 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: of it. That's like it's so easy to get wrapped 342 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: up in that in a conversation that you you are 343 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: giving an opinion that you realize later is like I 344 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: actually don't have the right to give that opinion about 345 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: this person. Like I mean, I get on my opinions 346 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: about it, but like just placing this expectation that they're 347 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: then supposed to uphold what we expect of them or 348 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: what we want of them is actually the mistake, right. 349 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: Yes, And that goes to the thing about like heat 350 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: a rivalry fandom, where like I saw somebody tweet the 351 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 2: other day they're like, oh, I I think I'm beginning 352 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 2: to understand now that a lot of people who watch it, 353 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 2: interact with the show, and interact with these actors outside 354 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: of the show do not understand the queer experience in 355 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 2: real life because the way they're sort of like policing 356 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: their behavior outside of the show. If these people, if 357 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 2: you're speculating about their sexuality or if you're watching how 358 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: they're like some of the actually like like I've seen 359 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 2: clips and things online and people are like, oh my god, 360 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: I can't believe they did that. I'm like, I wouldn't 361 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: even bet an eye at that particular behavior. Just because 362 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 2: you watch a show about queer life doesn't mean you 363 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 2: understand the queer life. Does that make sense? And I 364 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: don't mean that in like a derogatory way, but I 365 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: mean like to then like place your life experience onto 366 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: other people's, yes, because yeah, I think, but like love 367 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: the show, watch the show, support the actors, but like 368 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: I think, like they're we need to do like a 369 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 2: little self moderation. You know, when season three Bridgeston was 370 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: coming out, and Nicola Claughlin, who was like the star 371 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: of that season, ye oh, she's incredible, and she is 372 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: also like so good at like speaking about real things 373 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: and being really blunt and open and honest, and she 374 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: raised so much money for great causes. But when fans 375 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: started speculating about like her personal life and like rumors 376 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 2: and all these like wild things, it made her have 377 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 2: to like figure out how she interacted in real life 378 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: right with herself and the media, and like, obviously that's 379 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 2: not new. I think about like you and I like, 380 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 2: we used to on a much smaller scale when there 381 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 2: would be let's say, rumors, there were tabloid rumors about 382 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: Leah back in the day and we would bring in 383 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: those magazines or the articles laugh laugh, because none of 384 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 2: them were ever correct. 385 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: I think there's also an element that you were when 386 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: you were talking about Nicolo though, that's like, you know, 387 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: it's like how to interact and like these rumors and 388 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: then how to interact with herself. It's like another element 389 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: for an artist to then drown out the noise to 390 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: actually really just look inward and like be like, is 391 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,239 Speaker 1: this true to who I am? Is this true to 392 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: what I want? Because if not that, this is that 393 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: the mental health of the of the artists so badly 394 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: that like they're not being able to they're not gonna 395 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: be able to do the thing that you you wanted 396 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: them to do in the first place. Yeah, so I 397 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: think there's there's also that, But yes, I agree. I 398 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: the tabloids, the rumors, the swirls. That's not the fans though, 399 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: that's you know, that's the media. 400 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 2: Well but but yes, I know. 401 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: And you know, people like you know will take in 402 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: anything and run with it, right, Like we don't actually 403 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: know what happened with in most of these cases, right, 404 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 1: we know what happened to Leah because we know it's true. Like, 405 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: but like it's not true. 406 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: But I think from like our limited experience in this 407 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: sort of situation, right, yeah, where like we've known quite 408 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 2: a few well known people and have seen rumors come 409 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: and go about lots of those people that we personally 410 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: know or have been personally involved in some of these things. 411 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: And what comes out or is reported, which then starts 412 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 2: the online like a community talking about it, right, is 413 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: almost never correct. Like, so the thing that like we're 414 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: all on Twitter talking about the thing that we're basing 415 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: that off is wrong from the get go, right, and 416 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: so then we like spiral down this thing. And that's why, 417 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 2: like we always used to laugh at it because it 418 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 2: was never ever correct. Like there's people who comment on 419 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 2: our social medi media about our friendships within the cast 420 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: of people and being like, oh, this is why this 421 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: person like you guys actually have you guys don't actually know, 422 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 2: and that's fine, Like we don't, I don't, We don't 423 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: take it personally. It's always a reminder to me that 424 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: when like people say those things, even to us, how 425 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: much worse it must be for people who are like 426 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: actually famous and and like just how wrong they often 427 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 2: are about things involving us. And so I just you know, 428 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: I want people to like there are so many positive 429 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 2: ways to engage parasocially, like that doesn't have to be 430 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 2: a negative relationship, Like you like being part of a 431 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 2: community and like connecting to an artist or show or 432 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: whatever it may be. Is I mean the dream, that's 433 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 2: what we all want. I have that with so many people, 434 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: you kidding. I could sit here and talk for hours 435 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: just about what I felt like going to the Renaissance. 436 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: Concerts, right, Like, yeah, yeah, there's a boundary. I think 437 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: that's I think in all things, like in life, like 438 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: boundaries for an individual, boundaries for the people around you, 439 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: boundaries for you know, like things like your work. This 440 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: is like from an artist's point of view, like just 441 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: creating those boundaries of what that's what that social media likes. 442 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: And then from the fandom, like maybe we don't go 443 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: on in comment about who they're dating or what they're saying, 444 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: or you know, go and you know, attack somebody on 445 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: the other side of things. Not that everybody attacks anybody, 446 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: but I do think there is definitely a healthy fandom. 447 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: I remember the one of the first times actually not 448 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: one of the first, but some of the times that 449 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: I understarted to understand what that fandom was like or 450 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: started to feel. It was like when Twitter came out 451 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: and there were things that were being said about the 452 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: show or about me, and I would see it in 453 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: the mentions and you'd see they tag you and they 454 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: talk about you, and you're like, that's actually not true 455 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: or it is true, and that feel doesn't feel good 456 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: or like, you know, whatever it is that they're they're 457 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: saying about you, or they're defending you, or they're not 458 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: you know. And it was like, oh wow. And so 459 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: I had to turn off my mensis very early on. 460 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: And it's not to like put them aside, but it's 461 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: for my own mental health, Like it was just not 462 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: a good place for me to be to function and 463 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: every day. And then but on the other side of it, 464 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: there was one really funny interaction that I always tell 465 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: because I love it and I loved our fans and 466 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: I loved having that connection with them, hearing their stories 467 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: going on tour, like not everybody gets that opportunity to 468 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: go on tour and meet fans pre show, after show whatever. 469 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: And we were at the Gate in Chicago, I think 470 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: it was, and we were signing through the chain link 471 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: fence that Telly had taken us through, and there was 472 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: a couple, I mean like hundreds of people who were 473 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: kind of waiting and like we never did that. So 474 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: they were like, oh my god, and I'm signing through 475 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: the fence and they're like Tina, Tina, Tina. And then 476 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: a couple of fans, one in particular, this girl goes 477 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: her name is Jenna, and I was like, you, guys, 478 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: let's not fight, but also thank you. Like but it's 479 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 1: strange because, like I did, it didn't phaze me that 480 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: people were calling me Tina. I just understood, Like somebody 481 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: told us very early on. I don't remember who it was, 482 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: and maybe you remember. It was like maybe Ryan. They're 483 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: like these guys they feel like they know you because 484 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: it's a very intimate thing when you sit down on 485 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: your couch on Thursday. Are they sit in their underwear 486 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: or their pajamas or under their blankets and eating their 487 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: ice cream and like watch you. Intimately, it's like a 488 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: very intimate experience for them, and that is like a 489 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: para social experience. And so somebody said that and it 490 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: just really clicked and I was like, Okay, I get maybe, yeah, 491 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: I got it. I got it, and so that to 492 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: me always, it always stuck with me, and I always 493 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: tried to just come from the fans in that asked 494 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: like obviously there were some who just you know, went 495 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: a little too far, but they were fairly respectful and 496 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: I always appreciated that. But I always I always liked 497 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: that because it it never faced me that Tina was 498 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: going to be the thing that people called me all 499 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: the time. I just was I was like, this is 500 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: what it is. But when people knew my name, it 501 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: was almost like, Wow, I'm honored that you know my name. 502 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: I love that you know my name. And then also, wow, 503 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: that's crazy you know my name. Like there's all those 504 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: things can be true, right. 505 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: It's always all those things all at once, and it's 506 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: very hard to like process that. 507 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm like thank you, and also stop fighting. 508 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: They're not wrong, you're not wrong. We're all not wrong here. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, 509 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: I you know, there's but those were like some of 510 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: those like click light bulb moments for me that I 511 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: truly started to understand what the kind of relationships these 512 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: people had with the show, with our characters and with Glee, 513 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: and you know, as I collective. 514 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: I think that's the biggest thing, like you touched on, 515 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: like when you do read or hear these things that 516 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: are talked that are about you, and like nobody likes 517 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: to have themselves like misrepresented. I think like when people 518 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: have the wrong idea about you, it's upsetting and at 519 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: some point you hopefully learned that You're like, Okay, I 520 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: don't know these people. I'm never going to know some 521 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: of these people. I have to let that go. Yeah, 522 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: But it's like it happens to the best of us. 523 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: You get caught up in it, and you like you 524 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: really want to defend yourself and then like it's never 525 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 2: going to come off the way you want to. You 526 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: want to, Yeah, And so I think that's just knowing 527 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 2: when we're out in the world, all of us me 528 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 2: included interacting with any type of media or people who 529 00:29:54,320 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: are in the public, I just remember that like they're humans, 530 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 2: you know, Like everybody comes from their own life experience 531 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: that you may not know. Everybody has their own baggage, 532 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: and it's like just love and support all of these things. 533 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: And like I think having any of like the outside 534 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: perception going into like what you may be picking as 535 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: your next job or what you may you know when 536 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 2: that starts to creep in and you're worried about like 537 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: what the reaction may be when everyone's just trying to 538 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: do their best. Is it's a hard thing to it's 539 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: a hard thing to balance. But yeah, I do think 540 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: like overall, like these parasocial sort of relationships are generally 541 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 2: like really wonderful and healthy, and it's like no poyority. 542 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: Who just rallying behind you, and when you need them, 543 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: it's like you're not alone. Like there's a lot of 544 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: good that comes from that kind of support from when 545 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: like and I I always say this, like on my 546 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: social media at least, also like when I say something 547 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: like I really don't have a lot of haters on 548 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: my account, Like I kind of like I don't know. 549 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: I like got rid of a lot of those haters 550 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: a long time ago, and it's really nice. I'm just 551 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: like everybody here is here to support I love this platform. 552 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: I love the people that are on here, like for 553 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: the most part, And I do feel like there's a 554 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: boundary that we can both play, Like I put a 555 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: boundary of what I share, how I share it for 556 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: the reasons that I don't have to tell anybody, And 557 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: then on the other side of it, fans can love 558 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: this thing, love me, love the platform, you know, for 559 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: what they want it for. And then you know what 560 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean, Like at the end of the day, they 561 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: don't have to be here either, so you can also 562 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: move away. So I think there's like a healthy boundary 563 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: for both sides that can exist, and so I, yeah, 564 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, but I also think, like, you know, 565 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: there's also it's just wildfire social media. Wildfire. You were 566 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: a celebrity is like in you know, at dinner and 567 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, they wouldn't take a picture with me, 568 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: and you're like, who knows what they were going through 569 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: that day? Like how do we how do we treat 570 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: people you know and hate that we we don't Nobody 571 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: has owed anything right on either side. I don't know 572 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: you anything. You don't know me anything, Like we let's 573 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: call it even here. 574 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I think it's just it's important to like, 575 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 2: I think instead of policing the actual thing, I think 576 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 2: we should be maybe keeping each other in check to 577 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: be like, let's just keep it. 578 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: We're all here. 579 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, side note, in a healthy way. I have 580 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 2: met so many people at Stage store, at spelling me 581 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: by the way, Jenna and I keep forgetting to tell 582 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: you this. So many people who listen to this podcast, 583 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 2: and they are always like, the most wonderful and I'm 584 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: always so happy and surprised. 585 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: I'm always surprised me too. 586 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 2: And it's like they're not like, oh, yeah, I've listened 587 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: to it, Like I listened to every single episode. 588 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it happened. 589 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 2: Generally it is, I mean genuinely, it is so nice 590 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: and pleasant. 591 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get surprised every single time. Me too. 592 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 2: And they're like, I'm so, you're probably sick of hearing this. 593 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I'm not. It's like, I'm grateful. I'm 594 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: grateful people watch Lee and I like it. I'm I'm 595 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: grateful people listen to this podcast. I'm grateful for whatever 596 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 2: it is that brought you to interact with us. 597 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 598 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: Happy we're all here and like, yes, this is a 599 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: good good same community. 600 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: Definitely. Well, we'd love to hear what you guys think 601 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: about para social relationships and who you are and who 602 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: you have para social relationships with, because I have plenty 603 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: and all the things that we stand. So thanks for 604 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: listening to this episode and us chatting and come back 605 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: next time, and. 606 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 2: That's what you really miss Thanks for letting me get 607 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 2: that off my chest. Goodbye, Thanks for listening, and follow 608 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 2: us on Instagram at and that's what you miss pod. 609 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 2: Make sure to write us a review and leave us 610 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 2: five stars. See you next time.