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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you are new and

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Speaker 1: don't know what couch Talks is, it is the special

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Speaker 1: bonus episode of You Need Therapy where I answer questions

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Speaker 1: that you guys send to me and you can send

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Speaker 1: those to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: And before we get into the episode, always like to

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Speaker 1: give a quick reminder that although I'm answering your questions

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Speaker 1: and I am a therapist, this does not serve as

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Speaker 1: a replacement or substitute for any actual mental health services,

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Speaker 1: although it's always allowed to help. Now, we usually do

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Speaker 1: one question a week, and I like to keep them anonymous,

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Speaker 1: so we're going to keep rolling with that theme. So here,

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Speaker 1: I'm going about to read the question and then we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it. Hey, Kat, I'm writing because

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Speaker 1: I think a friend of mine is going through something

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Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed. But I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's my place or if I'm overanalyzed something that isn't there.

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Speaker 1: In a nutshell, I have a friend who also doubles

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Speaker 1: as my gym partner. We both work out at the

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Speaker 1: same studio and usually try to schedule classes together three

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Speaker 1: to four times a week. Lately, she's been staying after

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Speaker 1: our class to take the one after, and sometimes she

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Speaker 1: even goes to a class before work and then meets

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Speaker 1: me after work again. I love working out and I

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Speaker 1: do it regularly, but I have started to wonder if

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Speaker 1: my friend is overdoing it, and if so, how do

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Speaker 1: I address her seriously? The GEM usually makes comments about

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Speaker 1: how dedicated she is, and when she takes the class

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Speaker 1: after the one we do together, the teacher will actually

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Speaker 1: encourage people to stay for the second class. My fear

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Speaker 1: is that this just gets worse and worse if she

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Speaker 1: continues to be encouraged by the GEM and I don't

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Speaker 1: say anything about it. Does it sound like she might

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Speaker 1: be overdoing it in your opinion? And if so, how

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Speaker 1: do I talk to her about it? Okay? So, I

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Speaker 1: love that you're asking this question because you're really talking

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Speaker 1: about ex ties addiction and it's something that kind of

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Speaker 1: gets the short end of the stick and is glamorized

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Speaker 1: and not taken very seriously when it can either be

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Speaker 1: a partner to an eating disorder or its own addiction

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Speaker 1: on its own, and it can cause a lot of

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Speaker 1: not just mental health issues, but physical health issues as well,

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Speaker 1: and it's just something that we should look out for

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Speaker 1: a lot. And in gems, they really are encouraged and

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Speaker 1: I hate that, but this story doesn't really surprise me,

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Speaker 1: especially about the part with the employees at the gym

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Speaker 1: encouraging somebody to double or congratulating her on her dedication.

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Speaker 1: Also something that I thought of as I was reading

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Speaker 1: that is, you know, you schedule those classes with her

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Speaker 1: three to four times a week, but is she going

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Speaker 1: on the days that you're not there as well? And

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Speaker 1: how often is she doing that? And I mean Jim's

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Speaker 1: even will do challenges with often it happens in the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the year, but it's a way to get

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Speaker 1: business going. And it'll be like whoever takes the most classes,

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Speaker 1: or you got to take every teacher, and so sometimes

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Speaker 1: you have to take more than one class a day

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Speaker 1: to get with that teacher. I know at one of

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Speaker 1: the cycling studios I worked at, they did like whoever

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Speaker 1: can ride the most miles in a month, And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we really don't need to be doing that. I get it.

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Speaker 1: It's business, and at the same time, it's really hurting

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Speaker 1: the members and the supporters of your business. So again

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Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me, but I think it's something that

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Speaker 1: we really have to take seriously. And I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: wrote in about it. Now, if you were saying that

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Speaker 1: every once in a while your friend was doubling or

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Speaker 1: every once in a while she was doing that, it

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Speaker 1: was like not every time you went she was being

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Speaker 1: congratulated about already being there, or she was staying after.

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Speaker 1: But if it was like every once in a blue

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Speaker 1: moon she took another class. Because let's say that this

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Speaker 1: is a cycling studio, I don't know what kind of

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Speaker 1: student this is. Like a lot of times they do

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Speaker 1: like theme rides and you might want to stay for

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Speaker 1: that one because you like that musician, or it's just

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Speaker 1: something like that that wouldn't send red flags everywhere for me. However,

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Speaker 1: just like eating disorders are, exercise addiction is progressive, and

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Speaker 1: these things kind of slowly start to get worse and worse.

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Speaker 1: So your fear of it getting worse isn't crazy. It's

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Speaker 1: right on track. And this sounds like it has progressed

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Speaker 1: from when you first started working out with her. And again,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what you don't know, so there could

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Speaker 1: be more out there, and per usual, I can't give

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Speaker 1: you direct advice or diagnose your friend or say she

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Speaker 1: definitely has a problem, because I really don't know, and

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Speaker 1: this is from all I know hearsay. But what I

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Speaker 1: can do is I can give you some information on

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Speaker 1: what exercise addiction looks like, and then you can use

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Speaker 1: that and apply it to this situation. So everybody, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the signs of exercise addiction. So first, in general,

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Speaker 1: people with an exercise addiction are driven by persistent that's

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Speaker 1: a big one compulsion to work out, so they feel

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Speaker 1: unable to not do it. They cannot resist it, and

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Speaker 1: this can lead them to developing a tolerance and then

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Speaker 1: maybe even needing more exercise to get the same result

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Speaker 1: or whether that's physical or just mentally, you have to

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Speaker 1: do more and go longer then you used to have to.

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Speaker 1: And someone might start exercising normally like it sounds like

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Speaker 1: your friend, and then time goes by and they're running

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Speaker 1: eight miles a day and then also going to the

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Speaker 1: gym or taking three classes to get the same feeling

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Speaker 1: or rush or whatever feeling you get when you're working

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Speaker 1: out that you used to get from one. So that's

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Speaker 1: a big one to look at. Okay, that's the persistence

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Speaker 1: in the compulsion and they cannot not do it, and

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Speaker 1: that goes with they also can't cut back. So if

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Speaker 1: they try to cut back and says I'm saying that,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like an alcoholic right, because an addiction is addiction.

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Speaker 1: So if they try to cut back, they fail. They

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Speaker 1: say I'm only going to go once today, but then

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Speaker 1: you know, they end up sign up for five thirty

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Speaker 1: class after work as well. And when exercist addiction comes

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Speaker 1: into play, and it's not just exercise like a healthy

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Speaker 1: amount of exercise, the regiment that somebody has ends up

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Speaker 1: having negative consequences that they either overlook or they rationalize,

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Speaker 1: which in a nutshell means what was once helpful is

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Speaker 1: now harming them just like any other addiction, right, but

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Speaker 1: they ignore it or they justify it. So when somebody

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Speaker 1: is struggling with exercise addiction, it also interferes with their

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Speaker 1: normal life, right and just functioning of their normal life,

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Speaker 1: so that can include their ability to perform basic responsibilities,

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Speaker 1: whether that's at work or within their family or friends,

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Speaker 1: but also take care of their physical health. So people

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Speaker 1: oftentimes will lose sleep because they're going to get up

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Speaker 1: at crazy hours to make sure that they go to

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Speaker 1: the gym every single day, or or they're going to

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Speaker 1: the gym really late to make sure they're doing it,

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Speaker 1: or they're putting off other things that they need to

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Speaker 1: do to make sure they go to their classes, and

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Speaker 1: then they have to end up losing sleep to catch

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Speaker 1: up on other things. Maybe they're missing functions that they

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Speaker 1: normally would be at, whether that's with friends or with family,

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Speaker 1: or again at work. Into them again, they'll rationalize it

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Speaker 1: and they'll overlook it, so they'll say things like, well,

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Speaker 1: I just really care about my health, or you know,

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Speaker 1: this is just part of my lifestyle. This is important

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Speaker 1: to me, and that other stuff's not important to me.

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Speaker 1: I know for myself, when I was really struggling with

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Speaker 1: this in college, I actually skipped my last date party

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Speaker 1: when I was a senior to drive home and run

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Speaker 1: a half marathon. And when people were like, oh, my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you're missing our last party together, I

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Speaker 1: would say things like, you know, I don't really care

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Speaker 1: about partying, and running is what I really love to do,

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Speaker 1: and that's more important than to me, and I would

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Speaker 1: rather do that than go to a party. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: to an extent, that might be true that like partying

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Speaker 1: wasn't my you know, write or die in college and

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Speaker 1: it was my last party with all my college friends

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Speaker 1: and it was like our big end of the year party.

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Speaker 1: And when I look back, I'm like, I could have

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Speaker 1: run a half marathon at anytime. So again justifying rationalizing

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Speaker 1: giving excuses. Another big one is people will limit where

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Speaker 1: they go, whether that's vacations or if it is they

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Speaker 1: travel for work. They will make sure that when they

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Speaker 1: are traveling they are able to still get in their

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Speaker 1: exercise regimen, make sure the hotel has a gym or

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Speaker 1: there within driving range of a gym, or they're scheduling

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Speaker 1: workouts and going to classes and driving maybe a long

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Speaker 1: way to make sure they get a workout in while

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Speaker 1: they're on vacation. They cannot relax, they cannot cut back,

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Speaker 1: they cannot not do something. They can't take days off

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Speaker 1: even when let go of vacation, even when they're sick

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Speaker 1: or they're injured, and they'll end up getting a lot

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Speaker 1: of overuse injuries that they will ignore because they can

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Speaker 1: continue to overuse and they don't allow their bodies to rest,

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Speaker 1: and allowing themselves to rest, allowing their muscles and their

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Speaker 1: body to recover, actually makes them irritable and anxious and

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Speaker 1: can also cause depression. Something also to be mindful is

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Speaker 1: that somebody who's struggling with this will think and they

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Speaker 1: really do believe this. So it's not like they're making

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Speaker 1: the story up in their head, although I mean they

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Speaker 1: kind of are because it's not true, but this really

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Speaker 1: feels true to them is that exercise is the only

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Speaker 1: thing that can help them. It's the only thing that

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Speaker 1: they can turn to when they are stressed, when they

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Speaker 1: are feeling down, when they need to process something like

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Speaker 1: exercise is the only thing that can help them. And

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Speaker 1: this is a really big one because exercise is allowed

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Speaker 1: to be a stress reliever, it's allowed to be a

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Speaker 1: coping mechanism, but it can't be the only one. And

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Speaker 1: we don't want our mood or our happiness, our ability

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Speaker 1: to cope with life circumstances to be solely dictated by

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Speaker 1: the outcome of a workout or the ability to work out,

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Speaker 1: or if our workouts are like I said, outcome, if

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Speaker 1: they're producing the effects that we want, whether that's body

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Speaker 1: image wise or emotion wise, if we were able to

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Speaker 1: hit whatever level or lift whatever weight, we need other

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Speaker 1: abilities and other tools to help us cope with life

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Speaker 1: circumstances and not just rely on one because we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be doing that every day. We shouldn't be doing that

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Speaker 1: every time we are stressed or need something to help

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Speaker 1: us calm down or process something or move through a

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Speaker 1: heart emotion. Again, I'm a big believer in movement and exercise.

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Speaker 1: I love it, So I never want to send a

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Speaker 1: message that exercise can't help and be a tool that

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Speaker 1: allows us to help ourselves both physically and mentally, but

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Speaker 1: it cannot be the only thing that we turn to.

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Speaker 1: There has to be some flexibility in that. And so

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Speaker 1: that's a really really big one. And with all the

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Speaker 1: stuff that I just mentioned, these red flags don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean somebody is addicted to exercise. This is more just

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Speaker 1: an outline of universal symptoms that people who struggle with

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Speaker 1: exercise addiction might have. These things can be indicators of

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Speaker 1: a greater problem. So if you are seeing this in

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Speaker 1: yourself listening to this, if you're seeing this within your friend,

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Speaker 1: I don't want you to Oh, I'm going to diagnose

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Speaker 1: myself with this orm diagnose my friend with this, but

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Speaker 1: it's allowed to be an indicator that a problem might

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Speaker 1: exist and I might need to check this out. And

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Speaker 1: so for the listener that wrote in about this, I

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Speaker 1: hear that you don't want to make just a throway

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Speaker 1: calm that isn't taken seriously, or you don't want it

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Speaker 1: to sound like you don't care, or that you are

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Speaker 1: judging your friend, all of the things. You want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you're saying this in a way that

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Speaker 1: can be received well and is heard with compassion. And

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Speaker 1: one thing I would just put out there and warn

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Speaker 1: anybody in this position, like the listener with, is that

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Speaker 1: when you show up and talk to a friend or

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Speaker 1: a family member, a loved one who might be struggling

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Speaker 1: with something like this, if there really is a problem there,

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Speaker 1: it's high likelihood that you might be met with some defensiveness.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of times, and we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this in the podcast recently because we're doing the Four

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Speaker 1: Horsemen series, a lot of times when we get met

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Speaker 1: with defensiveness, things kind of escalate in a larger conflict erupts,

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Speaker 1: and something that is really helpful when we are with

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Speaker 1: somebody who's showing up as really defensive is to roll

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Speaker 1: with that, right. We were taught that in school and

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Speaker 1: grad school for therapy. This rolling with resistance rather than

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Speaker 1: creating a fight in a power struggle, it's just rolling

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Speaker 1: with it. Repeat what they say. Somebody says, no, I

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Speaker 1: really don't have a problem. I just have been really

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Speaker 1: enjoying the classes. Okay, Well, I hear that you don't

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Speaker 1: feel like you're exercising too much, and I respect that

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Speaker 1: and I trust you. So if I start to see

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Speaker 1: it happen more often, I'm going to check in again.

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Speaker 1: So you're not saying no, you're wrong, you're doing it

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Speaker 1: too much. You're saying, okay, I hear you. If I

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Speaker 1: start to see this more, I'm going to check in

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Speaker 1: just to make sure we're still on the same page.

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Speaker 1: You roll with resistance. You don't say no, you're wrong,

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Speaker 1: or you're lying to yourself or anything like that. That's

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Speaker 1: not ever really fruitful in conversations. But you just roll

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Speaker 1: with it. Okay. Why hear you saying this is that

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Speaker 1: what you're saying just kind of feedback what they're giving

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Speaker 1: to you, rather putting other words or accusing them of

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Speaker 1: lying or something like that, because that's never really a

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Speaker 1: way to get somebody to feel safe and to eventually

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Speaker 1: show up with something that they're really struggling with, because

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Speaker 1: this is a vulnerable thing. People don't develop exercise addiction

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Speaker 1: for no reason. And there's always like this essence of

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Speaker 1: a threat when somebody points out something like that, because

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Speaker 1: for this person who's struggling, exercise is the one thing

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Speaker 1: that in their minds helps them. And so when we

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Speaker 1: say hey, you might be overusing that, that sends them

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Speaker 1: like threat flags in their brain of like no, you

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Speaker 1: can't take this thing, oh WIF or me, So just okay,

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Speaker 1: I hear you. Well, let's just keep checking in about it,

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Speaker 1: because I know it can be something that's pretty easy

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Speaker 1: to slip into and I've seen it in the past,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Jim's can kind of encourage that kind

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Speaker 1: of behavior. So I want to make sure that you

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Speaker 1: just feel like the people around you are seeing you

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Speaker 1: something really kind and smooth like that. So again you

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Speaker 1: can say something like, hey, I've noticed you've been taking

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Speaker 1: a lot of classes lately and I just want to

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Speaker 1: check in with how you're feeling, or I just want

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Speaker 1: to make sure you are allowing yourself to rest and

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Speaker 1: recover too. How are you making sure you're doing that

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Speaker 1: or what are the things that you do to recover,

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Speaker 1: because you know, sometimes I feel like I need some

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Speaker 1: more tips too, so it becomes a dialogue and not

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Speaker 1: this accusatory like they're on trial. So I hope that helps,

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Speaker 1: and I hope that you're able to have a fruitful

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Speaker 1: conversation with your friend. And I know that I would

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Speaker 1: appreciate that if a friend was checking in on me,

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Speaker 1: even if it didn't feel good in the moment, because

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Speaker 1: it's hard, even though when somebody's meeting us with love

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Speaker 1: and care, sometimes it's hard when we're in a vulnerable

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Speaker 1: position like that to know that that is what is

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Speaker 1: being offered to us and not a threat. So love

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Speaker 1: this question, glad we got to revisit it, And if

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Speaker 1: you have more questions about anything again, you can send

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Speaker 1: this to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me at kat dot defatta and at

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Speaker 1: you Need Therapy Podcast. And I hope you guys are

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Speaker 1: having the day you need to have, the rest day

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Speaker 1: maybe that you need to have, and I will be

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Speaker 1: back with you on Monday.