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Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey therein

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff. My name is Jonathan Strickland. I

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Speaker 1: am your host, and how the tech are you. I

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Speaker 1: have a very special episode today. It is rare that

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Speaker 1: I get to do interviews, and it's more rare than

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Speaker 1: I get to talk to C suite individuals in my interviews.

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Speaker 1: But today I get to do that because I have

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Speaker 1: Sudan Shahani from surf Air on my show. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Tech Stuff.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Jonathan. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you because I remember

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Speaker 1: hearing about surf Air almost a decade ago now while

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Speaker 1: I was just following up on tech and back in

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Speaker 1: those days, the business plan and the approach and the

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Speaker 1: company mission statement was a little bit different than what

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Speaker 1: you are pursuing now. So I hope we can kind

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Speaker 1: of talk about sort of the history of the company

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Speaker 1: while the original vision was and how that has evolved

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Speaker 1: over time, because I'm really excited about where you're headed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. So the short version of this is, you know,

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Speaker 3: the early days of Surfair, the business model, it started

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Speaker 3: to serve business travelers and it started to serve business

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Speaker 3: travelers with a subscription all you can fly type product

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Speaker 3: for really the frequent flyer that was going on routes

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Speaker 3: like La de San Francisco and Santa Barbara de San

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Speaker 3: Francisco and wanted to go from a small airport to

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Speaker 3: smaller airport and get call it, two hours of their.

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Speaker 2: Life back on a day trip.

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Speaker 3: So don't spend a lot of time in the big airport,

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Speaker 3: get there five minutes before, get on a small plane,

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Speaker 3: hang with other members of like a like minded travelers club.

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Speaker 3: And people were doing it three or four times a month,

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Speaker 3: and we were giving consumers back time.

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Speaker 2: It was a great experience.

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Speaker 3: It was one of the few times I think people

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Speaker 3: actually enjoyed their their their flying experience, or we kind

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Speaker 3: of tried to bring that back, if you will, and

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Speaker 3: along the way we kind of realized that, you know,

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Speaker 3: while that was great to serve a particular audience that

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Speaker 3: was paying a small premium to kind of domestic business

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Speaker 3: class to get an experience that felt more like a

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Speaker 3: private flying experience, that was still a pretty limited I mean,

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Speaker 3: we could do that on roots like La San Francisco

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Speaker 3: and a number of other kind of high traffic you know,

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Speaker 3: commercial hubs, on each end, business city pairs with all

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Speaker 3: these business travelers. But we realized that if actually there's

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Speaker 3: five thousand airports in the country, and if we could

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Speaker 3: create something that took away the barriers, like if we

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Speaker 3: could make a similar experience affordable to a much broader audience,

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Speaker 3: that would be great. That would be the big the

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Speaker 3: big idea, like how can we make this affordable and

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Speaker 3: how can we make it greener? Because we look at

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Speaker 3: the two barriers to entry that people had, they were

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Speaker 3: either like, that's still a little bit expensive for me,

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Speaker 3: I don't fly enough to justify it, or like do

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Speaker 3: I really want to seem like I'm flying on a

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Speaker 3: private plane? Like that doesn't really go well with my

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Speaker 3: carbon footprint. And the reality is we're now entering an

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Speaker 3: error where we're moving towards the world is moving towards

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Speaker 3: green aviation is that's sort of the way we look

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Speaker 3: at it, and regional travel, at least over the next

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Speaker 3: decade or two, we think is about to be reimagined

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Speaker 3: because all of the innovation in this space is coming

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Speaker 3: around small planes flying short routes and that's where our.

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Speaker 2: Specialty is, that's what we do.

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Speaker 3: And if we could very simply, if you can make

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Speaker 3: smaller planes electric, a lot more people can afford him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've covered a lot of ground, which is

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Speaker 1: only fair for a company that flies everywhere. But I

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Speaker 1: want to dive into a couple of those things. One

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Speaker 1: of them is, you know, we're starting to hear about

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Speaker 1: this concept of regional air mobility, this ability to travel

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Speaker 1: to relatively short distances, far enough where driving would still

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Speaker 1: take several hours, but short enough so that smaller aircraft

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Speaker 1: can make that in a single leg as opposed to

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Speaker 1: multiple hops. And this approach to trying to make that

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Speaker 1: more accessible and also reduce carbon footprint makes a ton

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Speaker 1: of sense to me. It also comes in line with

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Speaker 1: some other business plans we've been hearing from with other

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Speaker 1: startups that are looking at even shorter distances right Like,

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Speaker 1: we're looking at companies that are starting up in the

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Speaker 1: space where they're using kind of the quad copter sort

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Speaker 1: of approach to take passengers from a centralized location to

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Speaker 1: the airport. To me, like, this is the next step

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Speaker 1: out from that. We're not talking about coast to coast travel,

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Speaker 1: but if I here in Atlanta, if I need to

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Speaker 1: get to Western Tennessee, well taking booking a big commercial

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Speaker 1: aircraft seat for that can seem like it's a bit overkill,

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Speaker 1: but it's still too far to make it a convenient

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Speaker 1: drive to get out there in a day, do some

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Speaker 1: business come back, or even just on a short weekend

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Speaker 1: trip if it's like a recreational thing. So I get

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Speaker 1: where the appeal is and I'm really excited to learn

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Speaker 1: more about this. At what point in the phase of

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Speaker 1: surf air where you start to look at this as

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Speaker 1: being the next step of kind of migrating toward this

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Speaker 1: approach of how can we enable regional mobility when we

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Speaker 1: have all these different airports that are underused or sometimes

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Speaker 1: they're just going dormant for a while because they're just

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Speaker 1: they're catering to like local pilots, and that's it. When

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Speaker 1: did you start really kind of ideating on this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question. And actually, and you covered

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Speaker 3: a lot of ground there too. I think that in

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Speaker 3: our case, unlike a lot of other people in the

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Speaker 3: space in the aviation of the airline space, in the

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Speaker 3: early days of surf air, we were one of the

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Speaker 3: few companies that was actually building a brand and a

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Speaker 3: consumer service around flying smaller airplanes. The industry at a

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Speaker 3: whole when they think about when they thought about the

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Speaker 3: new technology happening. So a couple of different trends are

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Speaker 3: coming together here. To your point, regional air mobility is

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Speaker 3: now something a lot of people are talking about. You'll

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Speaker 3: see NASA reports and McKinsey reports and kind of it's

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Speaker 3: sort of becoming a thing that that's where a lot

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Speaker 3: of the innovation in aviation is going to be for

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Speaker 3: the next decade or two. And it's sort of It

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Speaker 3: also is slightly in contrast to a line is being

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Speaker 3: drawn between urban air mobility and regional air mobility. So

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Speaker 3: when you talk about the quad copters and ev toll

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Speaker 3: and things like that going really short distances, that's really

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Speaker 3: that's being classified or will you know as urban air

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Speaker 3: mobility call it zero to fifty miles, and then you

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Speaker 3: look at regional air mobility fifty to five hundred miles.

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Speaker 3: The benefits of regional air mobility and why people believe

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Speaker 3: that will develop first would say is that we have,

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Speaker 3: particularly in this country, all of the infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: To another point you.

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Speaker 3: Made, there are actually five thousand airports that exist in

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Speaker 3: this country that can be used by charter operators in

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Speaker 3: real contrast, major commercial airlines, we're morphed over the last

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Speaker 3: couple of decades really more into a hub and spoke

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Speaker 3: model with larger planes and less deserving, less places, and

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Speaker 3: less point to point. You know, eighty percent of airline

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Speaker 3: traffic goes through thirty airports, and they may flex up

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Speaker 3: to two or three hundred for the other twenty percent.

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Speaker 3: We were already flying from airport. It's like that, Like

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting here talking to you today from our headquarters

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Speaker 3: at Hawthorne in California. Hawthorne Airport is a smaller, smaller airport.

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Speaker 3: You know, California alone is three hundred airports. There's probably

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Speaker 3: twelve airports within an hour drive of here. And because

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Speaker 3: we were already flying smaller aircraft and flying from airports

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Speaker 3: like that, when different companies were coming up with solutions

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Speaker 3: and electrification, new technology, new vehicles, we would really get

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Speaker 3: to see a lot of that first. We were fortunate

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Speaker 3: to see a lot of that as it was happening.

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Speaker 3: So to directly answer a question, when we start thinking

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Speaker 3: about this, we've been following the trend of kind of

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Speaker 3: where the space is going. Given that we are in

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Speaker 3: fact today we are the largest commuter airline in the US,

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Speaker 3: and the commuter air category is really the category that

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Speaker 3: would be defined as the business model that would enable

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Speaker 3: regional airmobility. It's flying small planes frequently like an airline.

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Speaker 3: So we're the biggest brand in that space, and hence

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Speaker 3: we saw a lot of things first. Whereas large airlines

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Speaker 3: would really look at small electric airplanes as a sign

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Speaker 3: project on their way to big ones, it wasn't a

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Speaker 3: real commercial use case there. So we were kind of

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Speaker 3: in a really unique position to be able to We

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Speaker 3: think we're in a unique position to be able to

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Speaker 3: lead the charge here well.

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Speaker 1: And with that established infrastructure there, it sets it apart

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Speaker 1: from other potential solutions that would require massive investment in

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Speaker 1: building out infrastructure. I'm thinking of things like all the

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Speaker 1: various sort of blue sky rail initiatives that have been

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Speaker 1: pushed around, and I love the concept of rail initiatives,

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Speaker 1: but if you're being realistic and you're thinking about the

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Speaker 1: amount of time and money that's going to be required

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Speaker 1: for that to happen, and you are really realistic and

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Speaker 1: you start talking about the political buy in that has

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Speaker 1: to happen for that to work, and then we recognize

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Speaker 1: that every few years we change our political leaders, and

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Speaker 1: so consistency is difficult. Having that infrastructure there is so valuable.

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Speaker 1: I think it's impossible to overstate how valuable it is

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Speaker 1: that these airports already exist. So that problem has been solved.

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Speaker 1: Now it's the question of can you have the capacity

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Speaker 1: to meet demand, can you find the price point that

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Speaker 1: works for the customer, and can you have that be

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Speaker 1: a business plan that ultimately results in profitability.

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Speaker 3: I think that's exactly right. I mean, look, we say

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Speaker 3: that to really build out the regional ammability landscape, and

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Speaker 3: you need a couple of like there's a couple of

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Speaker 3: key things you need for success. You actually need a

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Speaker 3: brand and a platform that consumers trust and that operators

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Speaker 3: are able to fly for. So what we're trying to

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Speaker 3: do here we don't just want to continue to build

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Speaker 3: a huge single airline in the space. We actually have

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Speaker 3: a platform and a brand today where we have a

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Speaker 3: number of third party operators that fly for us. We

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Speaker 3: want to deploy electric airplanes across all of them, not

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Speaker 3: just for ourselves, and the first wave of electrification which

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Speaker 3: will significantly reduce costs as well. We're actually electrifying an

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Speaker 3: airplane called the Cessna caravan. We're working with Cessna the

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Speaker 3: manufacturer and to do so, but we're going to own

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Speaker 3: the ip around it. But it's a we're built. We're

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Speaker 3: creating both a fully electric and a hybrid electric powertrain

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Speaker 3: for the Cessna Caravan. And what's really important about the

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Speaker 3: hybrid particularly is to the point you were making about

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Speaker 3: all the existing infrastructure, the hybrid Sessna Caravan will work.

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Speaker 3: Think like the early days of the Prius. The combustion

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Speaker 3: motor charge is the battery, so you actually don't need

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Speaker 3: charging stations to be set up at all of these airports.

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Speaker 3: You don't need any infrastructure upgrades across all of these

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Speaker 3: airports to be able to use it. So we live

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Speaker 3: in a country today where all of these airports exist.

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Speaker 3: A number of airplanes exist which can be converted over

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Speaker 3: to more efficient and modern powertrains hybrid electric, fully electric,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Based on the mission, hybrid electric can actually

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Speaker 3: save twenty five percent of the operating cost, which makes

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Speaker 3: it which is a huge number in aviation world, and

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Speaker 3: fully electric can save up to fifty percent of the cost,

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Speaker 3: but will initially be focused on much on shorter routes

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Speaker 3: one hundred miles and less.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll

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Speaker 1: be back to talk more about surf air mobility. I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to talk to you, Sodent about the electrification process,

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Speaker 1: because that's to me one of the really exciting things

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Speaker 1: about this. I mean, one, opening up accessibility to more

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Speaker 1: people so that they're able to take advantage of this

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Speaker 1: kind of travel. I'm really excited about that as well,

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Speaker 1: especially in lieu of methods of getting from place to

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Speaker 1: place when you're talking in that like fifty to five

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Speaker 1: hundred mile range. But can you kind of talk me

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Speaker 1: through this electrification process? Are you both looking into retrofitting

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Speaker 1: existing aircraft with new electric powertrain systems or hybrid powertrain systems.

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Speaker 1: Are you also looking at maybe partnering with companies that

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Speaker 1: would be building purpose built electric planes. What's your approach?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question, and actually it's funny here

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Speaker 3: here at our business, I try to have everyone use

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Speaker 3: the word upgrading.

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Speaker 2: Rather than retrofitting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, no, taken.

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Speaker 3: So we think the first thing that you can do

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Speaker 3: to make the biggest impact is actually take an existing

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Speaker 3: airframe where there is wide distribution of it already, and

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Speaker 3: upgrade that to being a hybrid or fully electric powertrain.

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Speaker 3: If you think about just the life cycle of an airplane,

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Speaker 3: people keep airplanes or airplanes stay in service twenty five

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Speaker 3: thirty years. However, there's a moment, depending on the utilization

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Speaker 3: of the operator, call it every three to five years,

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Speaker 3: where they have to do a full overhaul of the

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Speaker 3: combustion engine, and that's a moment where they could replace

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Speaker 3: it with an electric engine, which is a way to

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Speaker 3: get faster adoption across a much larger category. So we're

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Speaker 3: starting with the first thing we're doing is in electric

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Speaker 3: and a hybrid powertrain for the Cessna Caravan. Cessna Caravan

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Speaker 3: is a great airplane. It's been around for a long time.

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Speaker 3: There's over three thousand of them out there. We are

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Speaker 3: actually the largest passenger operator, we believe, of the Caravan

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Speaker 3: in the US, and these powertrains will be both marketed

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Speaker 3: to existing owners that existing fleet out there, where when

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Speaker 3: it comes time for an engine overhaul, the goal is

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Speaker 3: to have them be able to upgrade to a hybrid

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Speaker 3: or an electric powertrain for a similar prices it would

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Speaker 3: cost them to overhaul a combustion engine and instantly start

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Speaker 3: seeing the cost and the emissions benefits Additionally, Cessna will

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Speaker 3: be selling new versions of the airplane basically with an

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Speaker 3: electric version and a hybrid version for new buyers. And

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Speaker 3: there's a pretty broad range of potential customers for the caravan.

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Speaker 3: It's passenger operators like us, it's cargo, it's military, etc.

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Speaker 3: There's a number of use cases. So that's the first

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Speaker 3: the electrification project we're doing. Will we do intend in

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Speaker 3: the future to work with other airplane types with kind

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Speaker 3: of our proprietary technology, of course, and we also intend

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Speaker 3: to work with there's a lot of amazing and ambitious

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Speaker 3: projects for people who are building clean sheet design airframes,

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Speaker 3: lighter airframes so on, that are purpose built for electric engines,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of them are building their own electric

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Speaker 3: engines in those cases, and we intend to work with

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Speaker 3: companies like that too to plug into our platform. As

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Speaker 3: I mentioned, you know, we have a brand in a

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Speaker 3: platform which we have our own fleet, and we've got

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Speaker 3: a number of other operators that fly within the platform,

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Speaker 3: and we would like to provide people with the best

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Speaker 3: aircraft for the best use case. So if there's a

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Speaker 3: great new clean sheet design aircraft that comes to market,

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Speaker 3: we'd like to be the one to help distribute that

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Speaker 3: and commercialize it too. Wow, so we will in the

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Speaker 3: long run have a range of products.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It makes me think of some of the sort of

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Speaker 1: the big displays we saw where you had things like

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Speaker 1: the solar powered plane that made the journey around the world,

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Speaker 1: and you realize, all right, well, this is not to

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Speaker 1: show some sort of practical use for an aircraft. This

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Speaker 1: is not an aircraft that's going to take you, you know,

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Speaker 1: from one city to another. But what it does start

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Speaker 1: to show is potential for various technologies to be incorporated

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Speaker 1: in real world applications. And it's exciting to talk to

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Speaker 1: someone at a company where you're actually kind of doing that,

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Speaker 1: where you're using this upgrade approach. And I love creating

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Speaker 1: that incentive as well, the upgrade incentive where you know,

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Speaker 1: for a similar price you can swap out the powertrain

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Speaker 1: for your aircraft and you know that you're going to

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Speaker 1: be incurring lower costs down the line. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that I think is really interesting is in the

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Speaker 1: auto manufacturing space. We've heard time and again from manufacturers

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Speaker 1: that changing from internal combustion engine vehicles to electric vehicles

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Speaker 1: ends up simplifying things a great deal, both on the

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Speaker 1: manufacturing and fabrication side and in the maintenance side, because

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Speaker 1: the systems themselves are inherently less complex than your traditional

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Speaker 1: fuel powered engines are. So is the same thing true

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Speaker 1: with aircraft.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so. Think about you know, electric motors are

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Speaker 3: much simpler. What we're doing is designing and assembling electric powertrains,

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Speaker 3: which are a combination of motors, battery packs, a layer

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Speaker 3: of control software you wrap around them. In the case

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Speaker 3: of the hybrid, you're also adding a smaller, more efficient

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Speaker 3: combustion motor that helps charge the battery. And given that

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Speaker 3: there's also a real software layer that wraps around this

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Speaker 3: and then integrates into the aircraft, the aid the hardware

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Speaker 3: is all cheaper to maintain than the existing combustion engine,

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Speaker 3: and b the ability to continuously evolve and upgrade the powertrain,

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Speaker 3: similar to what you've seen with electric cars or other

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Speaker 3: kind of systems, where where an operator that takes an

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Speaker 3: electrified powertrain from US will have they'll have that one

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Speaker 3: time fee to install it. There'll be an ongoing relationship

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Speaker 3: with them, which is not just about basic maintenance. It's

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Speaker 3: also about constant aircraft health monitoring, predictive maintenance upgrading, kind

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Speaker 3: of as batteries get to next generations and evolve like

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Speaker 3: the product will continue to evolve, So you may see

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Speaker 3: an electric aircraft with a fully electric aircraft with an

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Speaker 3: initial initial range of one hundred miles that at and

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Speaker 3: get upgraded to go two hundred miles at some point

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Speaker 3: in the future.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it blows my mind too, because I'm from I'm

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Speaker 1: old enough where the idea of something like the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of a firmware upgrade to a vehicle is a completely

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Speaker 1: foreign concept to me, because I think back to my

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Speaker 1: childhood and the computerized systems and vehicles were very primitive

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Speaker 1: and very limited. You're talking about bunch of micro controllers

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Speaker 1: that don't even really talk to each other. And now

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Speaker 1: we're in a world where we have a lot more

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Speaker 1: interconnected systems, where because we have that capability, it opens

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Speaker 1: up opportunities that we can't even necessarily conceptualize right now.

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Speaker 1: Right it may be that three years down the line

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Speaker 1: we realize, oh, we can leverage this because we've built

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Speaker 1: it into the vehicle to deliver some new features that

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Speaker 1: end up being huge improvement of quality of life or

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Speaker 1: much more effective for the maintenance and care of aircraft

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Speaker 1: or the operation of those aircraft. To me, that's another

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Speaker 1: really exciting thing about this approach, And of course that

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily just limit itself to electrified vehicles, but it's

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Speaker 1: kind of in line with that too, where we're talking

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Speaker 1: about this you know, integrated package where it's not just

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Speaker 1: the drive train, it's the entire system, the control system,

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Speaker 1: and everything that's wrapped around of the software that enables

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Speaker 1: everything as well. And I had read up on an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing about electric planes, because if you've ever ridden

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Speaker 1: an electric vehicle, you know that they operate at a

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Speaker 1: much quieter noise level than an internal combustion engine vehicle.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing with electric planes is that they do

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Speaker 1: operate more quietly than your typical fuel driven aircraft. But propellers,

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Speaker 1: you know, turboprops make noise, and if you're in an

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Speaker 1: aircraft that's being powered by a fueled engine, chances are

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Speaker 1: the engine noises are actually drowning out anything from the propellers.

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Speaker 1: You're not hearing them unless you're maybe sitting up there

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Speaker 1: with a pilot. But in electric planes there's less to

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Speaker 1: mask that. So I'm curious, what are you looking into

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Speaker 1: as far as ways to mitigate propeller noise? In order

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Speaker 1: to make sure you're not impacting the passenger experience too much.

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Speaker 3: So in the world of building aircraft, there's the airframe

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Speaker 3: manufacturer and there's the powertrain, which, unlike ours, those were

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Speaker 3: actually separated a long time ago, which is why our

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Speaker 3: business model is survivable to be in the powertrain space.

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Speaker 3: I would say the airframe manufacturers are actually doing a

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Speaker 3: lot of interesting things like adding blades to propellers, curve propellers,

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Speaker 3: things like that to mitigate noise. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 3: the propeller noise gets louder, if the engine noise gets softer,

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Speaker 3: I get the relative comparison. I'm not sure there's been

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Speaker 3: enough electric planes flown around to kind of prove that out,

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Speaker 3: so reserve judgment on that. But certainly there are enhancements

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Speaker 3: being made on with propellers to make them quieter, and

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Speaker 3: certainly the goal of electrified aircraft. We're not suggesting that

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Speaker 3: electrified aircraft will be silent, but certainly the goals are

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Speaker 3: to reduce noise levels because to your point, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's all of these airports that can be accessed, and

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Speaker 3: reducing noise levels to be able to get in and

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Speaker 3: out of ones in more crowded residential areas would be

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Speaker 3: an extremely helpful.

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Speaker 1: Thing, right, right, Because we're also hearing onlike the crazy

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Speaker 1: ultra lux side of aircraft, all these companies that are

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Speaker 1: struggling or trying to become hypersonic aircraft companies, and they're

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Speaker 1: trying to suggest, oh, well, we're designing aircraft that's going

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Speaker 1: to minimize or even eliminate sonic booms. I'm not a physicist,

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Speaker 1: but I have a real hard time believing that based

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Speaker 1: upon how air works. But I hear about that, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, finding ways to minimize noise so

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Speaker 1: that you are not a nuisance to the community. I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially if we're looking at utilizing these various airports, these

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Speaker 1: regional airports at a higher rate, then it stands to

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Speaker 1: reason that you, if you want to do good business,

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Speaker 1: you have to take that into consideration as well.

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Speaker 3: And everything about our model we talk about wanting to

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Speaker 3: sustainably connect the world's communities. Like the idea is how

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Speaker 3: we create value in a community. We would like to

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Speaker 3: create more jobs in that community. We'd like to have

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Speaker 3: people who live there be able to move around quicker, faster, cheaper,

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Speaker 3: ideally quieter. Yeah, as well, and not sit in traffic

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Speaker 3: for four hours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it opens up opportunities that otherwise

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Speaker 1: just are very difficult to realize because just because the

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Speaker 1: physical realities of getting around in the world and that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have to come to the conclusion that

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Speaker 1: there are certain things that are just more effective to

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Speaker 1: do in person. Podcasts arguably are one of them. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: and having those opportunities to do that without having to

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Speaker 1: dedicate half a day of travel to get there or

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Speaker 1: to navigate through a busy airport, especially if you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the ability to get to a regional airport that

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Speaker 1: might be closer to your final destination as opposed to

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Speaker 1: fly into a major city and then having to drive

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Speaker 1: another three hours to get to wherever you're headed. I

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Speaker 1: can really see the value proposition there. We're going to

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Speaker 1: take another quick break, but we'll be right back to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about surf air mobility. So

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Speaker 1: what are we looking at as far as timelines go?

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Speaker 1: How are you you know, what's what's your your plan? Like?

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Speaker 1: Where are you looking at at where people might realistically

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Speaker 1: expect to start seeing surf air service start popping up

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Speaker 1: in places beyond you know, obviously been operating in California

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Speaker 1: for years, but beyond there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, as part of so we recently

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Speaker 3: acquired a company called Southern Areas as well. And you know,

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Speaker 3: we have operations in Hawaii, we have operations in California.

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Speaker 3: We actually operate in various routes around the country where

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Speaker 3: we fly through under a program called the Essential Air

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Speaker 3: Service Program, flying to communities that don't have much air service.

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Speaker 3: And we have recently built out an on demand short

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Speaker 3: regional kind of charter platform, more more efficient fly tover

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Speaker 3: prop versus a jet or flying you know, and that's

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Speaker 3: a national platform too, so you do have surfair in

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Speaker 3: some form across a lot of the country. We are

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Speaker 3: going to continue to scale that with combustion airplanes, always

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Speaker 3: focusing on the most fuel efficient airplanes and so on

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Speaker 3: as part of our mission of green aviation until we

437
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: start to deploy electrified airplanes, which we intend to do

438
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 3: starting the beginning of twenty twenty six. So we're going

439
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 3: through a certification process now of you know, we've already

440
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: had a demonstration of the technology and we're now going

441
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 3: through a certification process.

442
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 1: Excellent, Yeah, and has anything surprised you along this journey,

443
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: things that you've learned that perhaps were counterintuitive, or something

444
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: that really delights you as you were working towards this goal.

445
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, how long have you got like

446
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 3: a surprise every day? Look, I think one of the

447
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 3: things that's been that it's been great as we think

448
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: about the path and the product line we're bringing out,

449
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 3: you know, we're very focused on I think I mentioned

450
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 3: to you that the hybrid electric is actually what we

451
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 3: think is being designed for kind of mass adoption here

452
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: within the caravan community, because the idea of the hybrid

453
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: electric is it's not going to it's going to not

454
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 3: need infrastructure on the ground, it's not going to have

455
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: really any range limitations as opposed to the fully electric

456
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 3: and so on. We are, however, going to launch the

457
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 3: fully electric first, and that's that's a different order than.

458
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: We'd originally thought about.

459
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: You know, when we were telling people building a hybrid plane,

460
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 3: they often say okay, great, and then like, when will

461
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 3: it be fully electric? Like that's the natural kind of

462
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 3: question that we get next. But the reality is we're

463
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: building an electric powertrain which has a hybrid variant, which

464
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 3: will be the more popular variant in the long run.

465
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 3: But it's but we are going to start with a

466
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 3: fully electric which I think we're really excited about. We

467
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 3: want to be I think our goal would be to

468
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 3: be the first to commercially eployee fully electric flight. And

469
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 3: we have a perfect use case for it in our

470
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: network in Hawaii where we have we fly a number

471
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 3: of short hops that fully electric flight could be.

472
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: That could be a launch showcase for example.

473
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had the luxury of visiting Hawaii a few

474
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: times and have taken some of those island hopper flights.

475
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: I could easily see that as being the perfect use

476
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: case to showcase the technology and it's a applicability. And

477
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: your comments on hybrid approach makes so much sense because

478
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: it didn't even occur to me that, of course, if

479
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: you were to go fully electric, then yes, we have

480
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: all these thousands of airports that are under used, perhaps

481
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: across the entire United States, but they don't necessarily have

482
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: the facility to be able to recharge a plane. It's

483
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: just like we are looking at the electric vehicle challenges

484
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: across the United States where yeah, you've got to build

485
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: that electric charging infrastructure or else people could potentially end

486
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: up running out of juice in the middle of nowhere.

487
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: That's one of those things that's a huge worry point

488
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: for a lot of consumers, right they don't want to

489
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: adopt electric because they worry about this, And until you

490
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: have the infrastructure, you can't really drive adoption of electric.

491
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: But then then you also have the flip side of

492
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: that problem. If you don't drive adoption of electric, then

493
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: there's very little incentive to build out the infrastructure, and

494
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: it becomes a chicken and egg problem. So I definitely

495
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: agree with you that I think the hybrid approach is

496
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: the one that ultimately makes the most sense and will

497
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: be the most popular because there will be some airports

498
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: where they just won't have the capacity to be able

499
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: to meet that electric charging demand, at least not in

500
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: the short term, perhaps in the mid or long term.

501
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely no, we think hybrid will be a valuable product

502
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 3: and a valuable product globally for a long time to come. Yeah,

503
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 3: look at the use cases of caravans. There, there's cargo passenger,

504
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: there's a lot of international use cases. There's a number

505
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 3: of Sessa caravans in Africa and Asia. There's a lot

506
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: of places where the caravan. We think the hybrid will

507
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: be really valuable where which won't need any infrastructure.

508
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: Up right, and it's still following in that same path

509
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: as we're seeing with countries around the world pushing toward

510
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: electrification for land vehicles, and you're ahead of the game

511
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: on that when you're pushing for it for aircraft as well.

512
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: And to me, like that's a huge value proposition when

513
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: you're coming into talk to various countries or states or

514
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: regions and you're talking about the value of going with

515
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: a hybrid approach, when you're talking about things like climate,

516
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: you're talking about the local economy, all of those things

517
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: start to line up and it's I think we're looking

518
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: at a convergence of perfect timing and perfect environment to

519
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: have this kind of an approach to the business. So

520
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: I totally am jazzed by the mission statement for surf

521
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: Air in the direction you're pursuing.

522
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: Thank you.

523
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I selfishly, I'm really looking forward to twenty twenty

524
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: six when I can start looking at booking a flight

525
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: on one of these so I can experience it. I

526
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: mean in the luxury where I could do that just

527
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: to try it out, but also like the idea of

528
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: being able to do something to make these short hop

529
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: flights where otherwise I might not even consider traveling to

530
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: the place, even though there might be clear benefits to

531
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: traveling there. If I might need to record something with

532
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,239
Speaker 1: someone who's maybe three hundred miles away, and that's too

533
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: far for me to worry about driving or for them

534
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: to worry about driving. But if I had an option

535
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: like this, then that suddenly becomes a viable possibility. And

536
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: you know, even in just my own personal case, it

537
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: makes sense.

538
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the core things that

539
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: they consider what we're doing. Like again, unlike the shift

540
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: to ev on the ground, the shift to electric in

541
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: the air, it really like it matters to customers in

542
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: a very different way as well. Of course, everyone wants.

543
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: To be more more green.

544
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 3: Really, that's the big point here is are actually creating

545
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 3: a whole new market and a whole new audience, a

546
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: whole new level of accessibility where because of the amount

547
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: you one can reduce cost, people who could never afford

548
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: to fly in small.

549
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: Planes will one day be able to.

550
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the real consumer proposition here of regional

551
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: air mobility and so on.

552
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: It's like it's saying, you're.

553
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 3: Guysurely going to take people a lot of people up

554
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: from the ground into the air because it can now

555
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: be affordable for them to do so, Like they will

556
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: be able to get places cheaper and faster, more efficiently.

557
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: That's fantastic and it's so exciting to talk about, like

558
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: the combination of regional air mobility, which is already a

559
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: burgeoning kind of business area, and then the electrification on

560
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: the other side, you're putting them both together. It's really innovative.

561
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: And I was so excited when I was told that

562
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: I'd have the opportunity to speak with you about this

563
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: because again, like when I had first heard of surf air,

564
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: it was when you know, tech journalists were kind of

565
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: referencing it as like almost like ride hailing but for

566
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: small aircraft over in Silicon Valley, which wasn't even really

567
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: accurate back then, but that's kind of the narrative that developed.

568
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: But we're looking at something totally innovative and disruptive in

569
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: the best of ways, when you're looking at giving more

570
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: people that chance to take advantage of that mobility while

571
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: also doing so in a way that's environmentally responsible and

572
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: also making more use of this infrastructure that exists. And

573
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: it only has value if you use it. I think

574
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: of it kind of like Metcalf's law with networks, right,

575
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: the network is only useful. It's only valuable if you

576
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: have connections to it. Well, to me, like we're looking

577
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: at these this network of airports across the United States

578
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: and beyond, they would suddenly grow in usefulness as well

579
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: when they start getting more utility, more people flying in

580
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: and out of them. Then you start thinking about the

581
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: impact on local economies. It becomes this cascading ripple effect

582
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: that just gets really exciting.

583
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an amazing time to be in aviation. Actually,

584
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 3: I think the next couple of days, kids are going

585
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 3: to see a real next shift, like people call it

586
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: the Third Revolution and aviation, where you had like the turboprop,

587
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 3: then you had the jet engine, and now you're going

588
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: to have like the small electric airplane.

589
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating to look at sort of the circular

590
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: nature of that and how the things we learn from

591
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: one era can then be applied to the next one

592
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: along with innovations in other areas. I can't wait to

593
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: see where surf air goes from here. I'm really excited

594
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: to see how your journey continues, and very excited to

595
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: book that flight in twenty twenty six. I'm just going

596
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: to put that on my calendar and check back in

597
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: to see if that's a possibility, because I got places to.

598
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: Go so well. Like I said, there's a number of

599
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: flights you can even book.

600
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: Put small planes and combustion engines in the way there.

601
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: I definitely want to do that. I have never done that.

602
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: I've never flown on a small aircraft, and I've always

603
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: thought that that would be really interesting. So I'll have

604
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: to look into that anyway, because i really feel like

605
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: I need to experience it myself to get a full

606
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: idea of what that's like. I've watched videos from past

607
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: years when we were looking more at surf Air as

608
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: sort of the catering to executive travel, and looking at

609
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: those videos, I thought, Wow, what an incredible team y'all

610
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: have over there in your company, and the experience was

611
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: such a cultivated one. Clearly, that's a very different thing

612
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: than what we're talking about with regional air mobility, but

613
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: it had me excited just from seeing that because it's

614
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: so far flung from the experience I think most people

615
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: have when it comes to air travel. Right now, where

616
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: they're talking about getting on a big plane and your

617
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: seats are crammed as close as possible to fit as

618
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: many passengers as possible, and you feel like you have

619
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: no personal space, and it's just a very different experience.

620
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, I definitely would like to have the alternative

621
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: to that.

622
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: Well, we look forward to having you on board.

623
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining the show. I

624
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time.

625
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jonathan. That was fantastic. Thank you.

626
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

627
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,280
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628
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,360
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