1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Good morning everybody. This is Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum, 2 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: and you know who's here, the Queen of True crime, 3 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Hey, honey, well, good morning, miss Cheryl. 4 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: You know what, the big river just keeps on rolling. 5 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: Every time I look up there's any witness on the stand, 6 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: and it just gets worse for Diddy. But I swear 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: it seems like the general consensus is he's not going 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: to get convicted. I can't believe it. And it's reminding 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: me of when I was so sure that Simpson O. J. 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: Simpson was going to get convicted and Top Maham was 11 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: going to get convicted, and then they didn't, and everybody 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: kept saying they're not going to get confected, and I 13 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: kept saying. 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: Yes they are. 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: This is insane. There's a ton of evidence. 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: Do you know what I've thought about for several days. 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember in the day I minis, I'm not sure. 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: I want to get in your head. Sure? 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: Do you remember Andy mikel If there was a domestic 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: violence victim with her accused, you know, husband standing there, 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: he would sometimes literally have a table placed between the 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: two of them. He would put a physical barrier just 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: to be able to kind of say subliminally, you're not 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: going to get to her here. Well, if he had 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: a rape victim, he would literally get us to stand 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 1: next to her to prevent him from looking at her, 27 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, trying to intimidate her in any way. And 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: I can remember you if you had a victim on 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: the stand, whether it was domestic violence, rape, what have you, 30 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: and you thought the accused might somehow intimidate, send some signal, 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: make some face, whatever, you would move in a way 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: that would either block that field division so the victim 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: could look right at you and not see the accused. 34 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: And you know, that sort of thing has been in 35 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: my head every since I heard that the judge had 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: to stop court to tell Sean COLEMs to stop nodding vigorously. 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: That's a quote at the jury. 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: Can I tell you what happened yet? Number One, I 39 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: didn't believe anybody noticed what I was doing. I can't 40 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: believe me knee what I was doing. 41 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: I used to watch you, because here's what I knew. 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: If she's doing something and it's so slick and so brilliant, 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: I watched you sometimes and I didn't know what you 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: were doing, but I thought, Cheryl, you're missing it because 45 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: she's doing something. But that was very strategic and just 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: I always thought so thoughtful to the victim, like you 47 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: just stay right here with me. This is me and 48 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: you talking. Nobody else is here, you know. 49 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about what's happening with on Combs. What's 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: happening right now with him. He's back at the NBC. 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: He's trying to get additional time with lawyers. I don't 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: know why they don't go work on the weekend or 53 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: at nights. They'll let them in over there. I mean, 54 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: that's typically when lawyers goes after hours to go meet 55 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: with clients behind bars. But that said, the trying to 56 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: communicate with your rs. And also he has actually in 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: the last hours asked the sketch artists in the courtroom 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: to quote soften him up, make him look better for him, 59 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: I mean, in his head, this is all about public perception, 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: but it's not. It's only about what this jury thinks. 61 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: And that's something that I guess and knew instinctively or 62 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: learned early on. But I remember in trial something would 63 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: happen when I would walk through those swinging doors and 64 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: they would go whush and walk down that aisle toward 65 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: the front of the courtroom. All of a sudden, for me, 66 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: nothing else existed. All that mattered was the jury, the witness. 67 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: That's it, really, the judge, the defendant. Everything else kind 68 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: of like blended away. It just like it didn't exist anymore. 69 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: All that existed was the jury and the witness, jury, witness. 70 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: And I'm saying it like that because it was like 71 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: a tennis match. Asked the question, look at the jury, 72 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: asked the next question, look at the jury, back and 73 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: forth and back and forth, until all of a sudden 74 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: it would be six o'clock in court would be over 75 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: and I'd be like, holy crap, what happened? And it 76 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: was like that, if you're thinking about anything outside of 77 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: that room, it's a waste of your energy because it 78 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. And he's actually asking the sketch artists to 79 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: quote soften him up, his words, not mine, and how 80 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: he looks to the public. What does it matter? 81 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: What does it matter? But again I think you're right. 82 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: I think his pr he can't stop, he cannot stop 83 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: the public relations. But by him having to be monished 84 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: right then and there for aggressively, you know, noding at 85 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: somebody well, that tells you that jury's not stupid. So 86 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: these people that are saying, oh, he's going to get 87 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: away with all this, did they not hear the fashion designer? 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: Did he dangle her off a balcony? Yeah? 89 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about that too. My father hated heints, 90 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: as does David, and I don't mind them at all. 91 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: But when I get really high up, like when I've 92 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: been hiking, or you know, like the World Trade Center, 93 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: I remember taking my little nephews there, or the Empire 94 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 2: State Building. When you're up there, I remember I would 95 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: get a tingle and I still do in my legs 96 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: when I look off a high a high place, and 97 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about this woman. Nothing was between her 98 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: and falling except Sean comes holding her. How precarious it 99 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: was seventeen floors up. I have to tell you, at 100 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 2: this juncture, I am worried. I'm worried because of Simpson 101 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: and I'm worried because of tot Mom, Because in both 102 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: of those cases I believed the evidence was overwhelming, and 103 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: it was like everybody around me was saying, well, can't 104 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 2: you see he she They're gonna walk, can't you see? 105 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, no, one don't see it. It's 106 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I've got tunnel vision. 107 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: Again, you don't have tunnel vision. We've had arson, drug distribution, 108 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: sex crime, bribery, obstruction, and now I think jury intimidation. 109 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what more you need for Rico. 110 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: It's right there. 111 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I agree, But I mean again, I 112 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: thought the same thing about tot Mom and Simpson. That's 113 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: what I'm saying. The evidence was there too, and it 114 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: was very very strong. So not really verbalizing this the 115 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: way because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense 116 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: that they were not convicted. It doesn't make sense that 117 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: every so many people are convinced Combs is innocent. I 118 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: just said man on the streets last night, and overwhelmingly 119 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: it's like free Diddy. It was like dirt in my mouth. 120 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: Sure, well, top mom for me, as you well know, 121 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: here was my problem with her. There's not one photograph 122 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: that baby didn't look happy and clean, and they were 123 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: photographs of them playing with each other. 124 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, because she had just taken her from the arms 125 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: of her grandmother, Cindy Anthony, who kept her sleeping foot fed. 126 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: Understood, But there also was not a string of people 127 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: really saying how she was abusive to the child, mean 128 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: to the child, didn't want the child here. You have 129 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: a parade of people that knew him, worked for him, 130 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: dated him, the most intimate circle of people telling you 131 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: this is a violent, conniving, con artist, mean criminal. That's 132 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: what they're telling you. Girlfriends, employees, friends, They're telling you, Yes, 133 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: I saw him beat her. Yes I bought drugs for him. Yes, 134 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: I brought prostitutes here for him. Yes, I'm a prostitute. 135 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,359 Speaker 1: I saw him do this. I mean, I don't understand 136 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: how anybody can say that this is not a solid 137 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: reco case. 138 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: Back to what happened yesterday, the judge really reamed out 139 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 2: the defense lawyers because of expressions. Now, I've never really 140 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: heard that done. You made a faith, so you're in trouble. 141 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 2: Expressions the judge said, comes made to the jury. When 142 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 2: the judge says he was quote vigorously nodding. I can 143 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: only imagine how bad it must have been for the 144 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: judge to notice it, looking at the jurors nodding vigorously 145 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: during testimony of it was Brianna Bongoling Mangolan. It's a 146 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: friend of Cassivnenturi's Now, that's the person that he held 147 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: over the balcony by her armpits seventeen floors up. He 148 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: said that it comes and stop, that he the judge 149 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 2: was going to give what they call a curative like 150 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: a cure curative instruction and what exclude comes throat comes 151 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: out of his own courtroom, and you can try someone 152 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 2: in absentia. I've done it before. It was a drug lord. 153 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: I didn't kick him out. He didn't show up, so 154 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: I mean his ball was immediately forfeited once we found him. 155 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: But he missed a huge part of his trial, which 156 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: is not a good look anyway. It would not help 157 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: comes to be absent in the courtroom. So I don't 158 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: know if he can control himself. 159 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: I don't either. And you know you have done such 160 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: a great job always of being middle of the road 161 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: facts only. I'm not going to let a motion come in. 162 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: I'm not going to let my personal feelings. That is 163 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: what has always guided you when I see a defendant 164 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: that should be calm, taking notes, helping the defense. Hey, 165 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: I didn't say that, or remember I was in another 166 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: country at the time. Whatever he can do to help 167 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: himself that's not even possible if you're now resorting to 168 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: either antics or just can't control your emotions. So to me, 169 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: if a judge, as you said, not only just noticed, 170 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: it had to stop everything. It was beyond that. It 171 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: was obvious to everybody. And again, I don't think the 172 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: jury's going to miss that, because if I was a 173 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: part of that jury and felt he was directing that 174 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: toward me, I would take that as a threat. 175 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 2: Okay, did you ever read the Harry Potter books? 176 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: I did not. 177 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 2: Did you at least watch the movies? 178 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: No, ma'am. 179 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 2: So when necessary, Harry Potter or Hermione would say stoop fhi, 180 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: and it would kind of like stun the victim. Of course, 181 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: they had to have their wand but that's why I've 182 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: come up with a phrase, did hefi? Okay? Because I 183 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: think people have been didified. People that think he's innocent 184 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: have been didified. Yes, that is what I'm saying. Now, 185 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: you know your homewer used to go watch all the movies, 186 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: said I think these people have been didified. Can we 187 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: just talk? Can we just talk about? Oh oh, And 188 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: I found this guy and I've known him since way back, 189 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 2: and h Lynn his name is rob shooters, s h 190 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: U T e R, not shooter, bang bang shooter. And 191 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 2: he was combs as p R guru for years no longer. 192 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: And the stories he'd tell I just about fall off 193 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: my anchor chair every time he stares. Since, Okay, hold on, 194 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: what's a good one. There's just so many? Okay, So 195 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 2: he had he Shooter had arranged all this media to 196 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: see Sean comes get on to wait for it his 197 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: private ship. They were all lined up I guess behind 198 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: a velvet cord. I don't know. They're lined up where 199 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: the media was supposed to be a lot of them. 200 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: And incomes comes pulling up in his all black headed 201 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: windows suv and he gets out and starts walking up 202 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 2: literally the red carpet to the private plane and then 203 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: he stops. He's like, oh f no, and everybody's like 204 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: what And he walks back to my friend rib Shooter 205 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: and says this though you don't even have the right angle, 206 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: because what everybody got I guess it was titeboro was 207 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: they had their backs to the private plane and they 208 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: were watching him come along the what do you say, 209 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 2: the access road, watching him come along the access road 210 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: and get up his car and start looking, but the 211 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: media didn't have their backs were to his private plane, 212 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: and you know all of the medions standing there, the 213 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: pilot ready to kiss his behind, and all the flight 214 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: attendants and all those people standing there with champagne to 215 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: hand him as a young all that he threw a 216 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: big fit. He made Shooter go back and turn all 217 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: the press around, physically turned them around and go to 218 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: each press person and force each one of them to 219 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: delete the other video. Then he got back in his 220 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: suv left and drove back in so they could get 221 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: him pulling up in view of the private plane to 222 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: then get out of his suv again and walk up 223 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: and I guess, get his glass of champagne and have 224 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: his rear enkiss by all the minions and get on 225 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 2: the plane. 226 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: So he did a take too, like he's in a movie. 227 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I'm glad you said like you said, 228 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: a movie, because Rob went on to say his whole 229 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: life is like a movie he's filming in his head. Now, 230 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: wait a minute, let's extrapolate that. Let's overlay that on 231 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: what's happening right now, telling the sketch artist soften me up. 232 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: That can't go out like that, trying to orchestrate what's 233 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: happening in the courtroom, trying to communicate with the jury, 234 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: trying to die wrecked the free Coughs, trying to Hey, 235 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: you tell the police she was drunk and she was 236 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: the aggressor when he attacked his chef. Hey, you tell 237 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: the pharmacist you're frank black and you get my fake prescriptions. 238 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: You do this, you do that. Hey, you fix the lighting, 239 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: You light the candle, you move her arms, Let's change 240 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: the lighting in the free cough You slipped the ghb interstry. 241 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: It's like it's his movie and we're just bit players 242 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: in his movie. And I'm sure that there is some 243 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: type of psychological term for this. I don't know what 244 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: it is, but that is neither here nor there. I'm 245 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: just telling you this is real. 246 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed 247 00:16:54,160 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: twenty times, including in the bat allegedly die of suicide? Yes, 248 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 3: that was the medical examiner's official ruling after a closed 249 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what 250 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: happened to Ellen Greenberg a huge American miscarriage of justice. 251 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 3: For an in depth look at the facts, see what 252 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 3: happened to Ellen on Amazon. All proceeds to the National 253 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 3: Center for Missing and Exploited Children. 254 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: You have been in every level of court there is local, state, 255 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: and federal, myself included. I sat next to you in 256 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,959 Speaker 1: federal court with vanderslout. You and I. Right down at 257 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: the end of our bench was the sketch artist. Do 258 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: you remember because I was fascinated watching her very skilled. 259 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: It would never dawn on you and I, who've been 260 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: to thousands of trials, to tell any sketch artist, hey, 261 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: draw me in there, make me look twenty five like what. 262 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: I would never even speak to the sketch artist. I 263 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: would never think to say, you know, hey, add Nancy 264 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: and me so I can frame that, moll. That's like, 265 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? How would he even have 266 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 1: the goal to think he could talk to a sketch 267 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: artist period. That person is a viable part of this 268 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: whole thing because we can't have TV in there. That 269 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: sketch artist is our only visual to this whole thing. 270 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 2: And they're always the sketches never look anything like what's 271 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: going on. 272 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: Never. And you know, I sit there and I think, 273 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: you know there's some things because you're a veteran that 274 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: maybe you learn along the way, but not something you 275 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: demand or ask for is because you know, hey, remember 276 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: when we were all seeing in HL and doing your 277 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: show for twenty years. One day it just happened me 278 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: and Renee Rockwell were on at the same time, and 279 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: you had us at the main table, not like in 280 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: a little afshoot studio. I'll never forget. And they were 281 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: setting up cameras and all that toward everybody. I never 282 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: said a word to anybody. I was so grateful to 283 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: be there. I'm just like, whatever happens is great. I 284 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Not rock Wull Honey. She looked at that 285 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: man behind that camera and she went, you know better, 286 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: that ain't my life. She had some soft amber bulb 287 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: that she had to be on her that of course 288 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: made her skin look fantastic. 289 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: It made I stuck like crap. Okay, yeah, I never 290 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 2: ever read social because it's just like depressing. But I 291 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: do look for new stories. I look because people say, hey, 292 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: have you heard about so and so? Hey, can you 293 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 2: help us do this? Sir? Please cover this. The other 294 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: day somebody wrote and they went, have you ever considered 295 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: have you ever considered professional hair at Macon? I'm like, girl, 296 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: and this is the best two hours of heart makeup 297 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 2: can do. It's not going to get any better. 298 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: And if people knew that, don't even hurt her feelings. 299 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: We think it's hilarious. But I'm telling you we she 300 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: broke out with that amber light. Let me tell you something. 301 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: My guy looks at me, like, you want an amber light. 302 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I want the darkest. Do you have brown? 303 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: Do you? I'm just trying to think of what I'm 304 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: going to say and if it's going to make any 305 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: sense at all. Okay, before we're going we're getting dentified. 306 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 2: Can we talk about Coburger woman? Okay, did you know that? 307 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: Apparently Coburger's past life is looming? New witnesses have been 308 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 2: called to Idaho. 309 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 4: No, but it's about time hunting a former professor at 310 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 4: the sale, a woman who saidy boxing gym where he 311 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 4: used to train, got summons. 312 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: For June thirty. By the way, now why are they 313 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 2: coming on June thirty? Apparently there's a hearing they can 314 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: show why they should not be called to testify. Okay, 315 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: I know her name is professor Michelle Bulger, and I 316 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 2: know she taught him at the Sales, and I know 317 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: at the sales. He was getting his criminal justice master's degree. 318 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 2: That's what I know about her. I also know that 319 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: she had previously stated that she was shocked at what 320 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 2: he was accused of and she doesn't believe it. She 321 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: also thinks he's brilliant. That's what I can remember about her. 322 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 2: I know that other witnesses are Anne Parnham, who was 323 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 2: an advisor. I know that one of the people is 324 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: Jesse Harris and Harris work Sady boxing, Jim where Coberger 325 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 2: used to work out. That's all I know right now. 326 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 2: But what do you think about that? Oh, by the way, 327 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 2: he used to work out every day at that gym. 328 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: I think boxing is interesting to me, and I'd like 329 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: to know more about it, like exactly what he did. 330 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: Did he spar with people or was he on a bag? 331 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: What was he training for? Was it to get in 332 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: shape because he used to be heavy. I know that 333 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: I know he was in R O T C. But 334 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: boxing as opposed to other types of working out. I 335 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: would be interested to know things that he said, things 336 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: that he did. In other words, has he ever sparred 337 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: with a woman. I just want to know all of it, 338 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: every bit of it. 339 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: I wonder what it's all about I'm I'm sure it's 340 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: somehow going to shine light on his personality, but they're 341 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: going way way back, and I'm just curious about the 342 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: trial strategy. What is it for. I know that the 343 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: defense is seeking another delay. I don't know that they're 344 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 2: going to get it, because it's already been so long 345 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: and they've got they keep referring to a quote alternate 346 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 2: suspect theory, in other words, saw it, some of the 347 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 2: dud did it. So I don't know who the quote 348 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: alternate suspect is going to be. But the law is, 349 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: you can't have a phantom some of the dud did it. 350 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: You've got to be able to point to a particular person. 351 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 2: And I learned that I believe it was Drew Findling, 352 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 2: who's a very wildly lawyer, is a good lawyer. Defense 353 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 2: attorney was going to bring or tried to bring in 354 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 2: statistics in a rape case, stating in this area there 355 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 2: have been seventy other rapes in this past year, and 356 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 2: so and so was convicted of these number, you know, 357 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: ten of them, and it could very well have been him, 358 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: and that was disallowed. And I can't remember specific the 359 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 2: specific case, but I remember arguing and looking up the law. 360 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: You have to they have to have a real individual. 361 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 2: It can't just be okay, this is what I was 362 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: thinking they might be doing. Do you remember that not 363 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 2: long before the quadruple Sleigh, that there was a home 364 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 2: invasion not far away, not separated by a long period 365 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 2: of time. That was a two floor two or three 366 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 2: four structure, and in the home lived several women as roommates, 367 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: and the person came in and I believe I'd have 368 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: to look it up again, it's off the top of 369 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: my head. They were clad in dark clothing with a 370 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: face mask and appear in one of the women's bedrooms 371 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: in the middle of the night with a knife, and 372 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 2: the victim kicked the purp in the stomach and the 373 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: purp ran off. I'm wondering if they're going to use 374 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: that example as the some other dude, although I think 375 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: that was probably coburger finally go ahead. 376 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's what I would want to know, what 377 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: type of car, what cell phone pays hit there. There's 378 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: a whole lot of things. Again, if they can't add it, 379 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: it's only going to hurt them, because listen, I know 380 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: people that can't watch boxing. So if they try to 381 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: include that, here's the deal. You want to work out, 382 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: but you have selected the most violent sport to work out. 383 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: You're not playing tennis, you're not going for a jog. 384 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: You claim you like to hike. Yeah, right, but you 385 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: choose boxing. And again, did you want to learn where 386 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: to punch a woman in the face to knock her 387 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: out so you could rape her. I don't think that's 388 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: gonna do him any good. 389 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: Well, let's think about these two theories. And this is 390 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: kind of thing that I would love to just sit 391 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 2: there and go to my quote mind palace. Okay, I 392 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 2: got that from Sherlock Holmes. But listen to this. I'm 393 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 2: thinking about their defenses and how they can reconcile, or 394 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: if they can reconcile, does that mean if they are 395 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: not able to be reconciled, that the defense will pick 396 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 2: one of them or just throw everything. It could have 397 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: been this, or it could have been this, or it 398 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: could have been this. Okay. What I'm talking about is 399 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: I know the lead lawyer, and Taylor told the judge 400 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: she found a lead on another suspect deep amongst the 401 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: tips collected by police. Well, that could be anybody, Okay, 402 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 2: including what the scenario, the true scenario we just discussed. 403 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 2: It could be that. But she also previously said in 404 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: court the defense planned to argue Coburger was framed by 405 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: someone who planted his DNA at the crime scene, and 406 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 2: that two people committed the crimes using two different weapons. Okay, 407 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 2: wait a minute, now I know where she's getting that. 408 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: One of those from from the DNA found on the stairwell, 409 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 2: which could come from anybody at any time. Or wait, 410 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 2: excuse me, and the glove found in the parking lot 411 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 2: with DNA on the inside of the glove. So that's 412 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 2: likely two different DNAs and she using them to bolster 413 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 2: the theory that there were two other individuals there and 414 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: not just that, but that they framed Coburger. Now here's 415 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 2: my question. Does that reconcile with her argument that she 416 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 2: found another suspect in the tips collected by police early 417 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 2: on or is that a second as an alternate theory 418 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 2: as some other dude, or is she going to blend them. 419 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 2: These are two lines, very distinct lines of defense. She 420 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 2: got a tip, she says, of another suspect early on 421 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 2: in the investigation, from the police tip. Somebody called it 422 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 2: a tip. Okay, is that what the sod some other 423 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 2: dude is going to be or is it going to 424 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: be these two other male DNAs found at the same 425 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: and they're framing cover or is she going to blend 426 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 2: them and claim that Go with me, this tip received 427 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 2: early on is in fact the same male who the 428 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 2: DNA was on the handrail and or in the glove, 429 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: and that individual framed Coburger by putting the knife sheath. 430 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: There is any of that true? No, none of it's true. 431 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 2: Obviously it's this direction. But think about it, Cheryl, Think 432 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: about it. She has this unknown DNA at the scene 433 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: out in the parking lot. Right when I was there, 434 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: I saw a glove in the parking lot of the 435 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: house where somebody had dropped it. I'm sure it's not 436 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: the same glove, but I remember pointing it out. It 437 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: was the flactination growling. Look at that. I said, Oh, 438 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: I think, I said, did y'all drop that? Because if 439 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: I thought one of them had dropped their glove. Anyway, 440 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 2: My point is that sounds real, Cheryl, that there was 441 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: an actual tip called in and that there is a 442 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: glove and there is DNA on the banister. Is it true? 443 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: Of of course, it's not true. But all it takes 444 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: is one is your ard to believe it. 445 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: She's gonna use all of it because if one doesn't stick, 446 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: the other one might. She's going to give them as 447 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: much reasonable doubt as possible. Remember, he was out looking 448 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: at stars and hiking. She's throwing everything against that wall. 449 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: Here's what she's gonna do. She's gonna absolutely bring in 450 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: the tip. They're going to counter that by saying, you know, detective, 451 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: how many tips did y'all get for the tip line five, 452 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: six hundred and fourteen or whatever the number is, how 453 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: many panned out? None? Okay, great, move on. Let's talk 454 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: about DNA in the house. Let's talk about DNA on 455 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: your own car. If you've ever had a tire changed, 456 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: if you've had an old change, if you've ever had 457 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: any kind of repair of a headlight or anything, there 458 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: is DNA on your car from an unknown person. And 459 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: when you go and get your admissions and they go 460 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: into your car and plug that little machine in, he's 461 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: touching parts of your car inside the driver's door. Is 462 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: gonna be unknown male DNA. They can explain that away. 463 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: But yes, she's gonna try it. But just like the 464 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: hiking she knows that it isn't true. It's all misdirection. 465 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: And when you break this thing down to its most 466 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: elementary vein that runs through this whole thing, the car, 467 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: the cell phone going into airplane mode, that not just DNA, 468 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: but they You want me to believe that somebody put 469 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: his DNA on a knighte sheath and it happens to 470 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: be the same knife he freaking boughtd twice. It ain't 471 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: gonna work. 472 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's gonna work either, But now 473 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: as the time, okay, do you remember, I think it 474 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: was Reagan had something called the star Wars Defense, And 475 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: what the star Wars was millions and millions and trillions 476 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 2: and trillions to shoot down, first of all, to locate 477 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: incoming missiles or bombs and then shoot them down before 478 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: they got to us soil. That's what the state needs 479 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: to be doing right now, not just throwing out platitudes 480 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 2: like it's a mysteric said it's not going to work. Okay, fine, 481 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 2: what where did that get me? Nowhere? You have to 482 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: think about what they are going to do specifically, and 483 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 2: then you have to find a way to shoot it 484 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 2: down before it even happens. What I'm saying is like, Okay, 485 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: you just said something really helpful. The oil change is 486 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 2: a brilliant example, a brilliant example. They have to be 487 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 2: thinking now about how they're going to shoot down this 488 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: theory that there were two other purpose that chose Okay, 489 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 2: that that is could hook at you are, but two 490 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: other props that framed Coburger. See that is where to me, 491 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: you would lose a jury. You might have some curror 492 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 2: that buys in to Okay, there's mel DNA in the stairwell, 493 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 2: there was mail DNA in that glove out in the 494 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: parking lot. But then to go another step and say 495 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: and they were there to frame Coburger, Like how did 496 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 2: they frame him? How did they get his DNA on 497 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: that sheet? They need to be thinking of concrete arguments 498 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 2: to fight back against this defense. This is where the 499 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: defense is going. They're not going to claim he was insane. 500 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: They're not going to claim any other scenario placing him 501 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: there at the time of the crime. I don't think 502 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 2: they're going to go with he didn't do it, he 503 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: was out stargazing. That's what they're going to do. 504 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: I think it's going to be pretty easy, and I'm 505 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: sure they are sitting no, no, because you know, the 506 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: defense hadn't been quiet about what they're saying. So I'm 507 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: sure they've got counter counter counter. 508 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 2: Can I give you one more trial quote? Now I've 509 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: quoted Harry Potter, Sherlote Holmes and others. Now, let me 510 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 2: quote Caddy Shack. If you want to catch a varmit, 511 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: you got to think like a varmit. That's what I'm saying. 512 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, You're absolutely right. But you know when 513 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: they called the owner of the home, did you ever 514 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: have somebody come in and paint? Did you ever have 515 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: somebody come in and do electrical work? Did you ever 516 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: have somebody go upstairs to change a filter? They're going 517 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: to be able to explain those children had parties. You 518 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: want to talk about unknown male DNA. It should be 519 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: all over that house. That's not going to hold any 520 00:34:58,400 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: water here at all. 521 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 2: Only takes one It only takes one ger to screw 522 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 2: the whole thing up. 523 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: Hey, before I let you go, I got to tell people, 524 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: so y'all that really truly have only known Nancy Grace 525 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 1: from TV and podcast and interviews. You see a very smart, calculated, 526 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: forward thinking prosecutor. And she's quick on her feet, and 527 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: she's right down the solid line of truth and justice. 528 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: She is also, if you know her personally, very funny. 529 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: The other day, a buddy of mine sends me this clip, Nancy. 530 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: It's a podcaster and her name is Bunny, and she's 531 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: talking about you, and she says, have y'all seen the 532 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: queen of true crime, the woman that started it all? 533 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: We're all just following in her footsteps. This girl is beautiful, 534 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: she's blindheaded. I don't know her full name or anything, 535 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: but it's like the playboy bunnies behind her and she's 536 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: talking to a buddy of hers, and her buddy's like, yes, 537 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: I've seen it, and she goes, y'all if you have 538 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 1: not seen it, roll this clip what you And you're saying, yeah, 539 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: you know, the witness said, he's itty bitty diddy, and 540 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: then you throw to the guest you have and you say, 541 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: there's just no coming back from that. These girls they 542 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: fall out laughing, and then she says, if anybody knows 543 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: Nats and Grades, please tell her to come on here. 544 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: We love her, So I thought, I just got to 545 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: tell you that it is the greatest clip of the 546 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: two of them, just falling out because you're like itty bitty, 547 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: like hmm okay, pimp daddy. You know, we see what 548 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: they're working with. No wonder you're so mad all the 549 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: time and aggressive and hate. 550 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 2: Women so much. 551 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: You hate women so much. But I'm gonna tell you 552 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: right now, if that's true, that he's that itdy bitty, 553 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: the wrong person was black male. I'd get the video 554 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: with that and say, Sean, you can release mine, but 555 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna release yours brother. 556 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 2: The other day, what was I doing? Oh yeah, I 557 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,439 Speaker 2: was on with the Harvey Levin from TMZ and Garret 558 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 2: Ghos was on. I think I accused him of being 559 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 2: on the Idy Biddy Diddy committee. That's the defense team. 560 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 2: That's when I'm referring to them as. But you know, 561 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 2: Brian still ain't half bad. He's a pretty good lawyer. 562 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: I kind of that throws the wrench in my works. 563 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you. I'll tell you another thing I noticed, 564 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 2: and this time I'm gonna tell you I have to 565 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: go Gloria. Is that still started off with what I 566 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 2: always call the Andy of Maybury approach with one of 567 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 2: the female witnesses, where you're getting the information you want 568 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 2: on cross but you're not being a total a hole 569 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: about it. You're not tearing them any booty hole and 570 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 2: being somewhat genial. And then over in the corner is 571 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 2: Shawn Holmes at the defense table, moving around and twirling around, 572 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: and you know what does that face in his hands 573 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 2: and twitching and uh and then still took a different 574 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 2: tack and started being really mean, steering to the witness. 575 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 2: I wonder if Diddy's steering that ship, because you know 576 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 2: what they say, a man that represents himself has a 577 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 2: fool for a client and is so Diddy's calling the 578 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 2: shots on this. They're going down fast. Can't wait to 579 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 2: find out if he's going to take the stand. And 580 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: I'll leave you on that note, Bye, Gloria, were leaving 581 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 2: my sugar,