Speaker 1: This podcast is part of the seventy Sixers podcast network
Speaker 1: Search seventy Sixers podcast Wherever You Get Your Pots. The
Speaker 1: seventy Sixers have built one of the NBA's best and
Speaker 1: deepest front office staffs. It's all led by General manager
Speaker 1: Elton Brand. Also now in his fourth season with the
Speaker 1: seventy Sixers is Alex Rutcker. His title as Executive vice
Speaker 1: President Basketball Operations, and he's responsible for the overall strategy
Speaker 1: and day to day management of analytics, scouting, player development,
Speaker 1: athlete care and the coaching staff. Rutcker, who grew up
Speaker 1: in Vancouver, British Columbia, has a diverse background, one rooted
Speaker 1: in education on many levels. This episode of Tom's Talks
Speaker 1: gives us insight into the seventy Sixers front office as
Speaker 1: we hear from Alex Rutcker. Hello, and welcome to another
Speaker 1: edition of Tom's Talks, and we're joined by a member
Speaker 1: of the seventy Sixers front office. Alex Rutcker is the
Speaker 1: seventy Sixers executive bright vice President of Basketball Operations. And Alex,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. How are you
Speaker 1: doing today? Doing fantastic? Tom Basketball's back yesterday, So there's
Speaker 1: some joy in my life again. But no, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. It's an honor. You just
Speaker 1: celebrated a birthday. It got lost in the shuffle a
Speaker 1: little bit with Ben simmons birthday, but a belated birthday wish,
Speaker 1: thanks sir. A lot of six Ers birthdays of late
Speaker 1: with Tobias Harris and Mike Scott and Alec Birch, herself
Speaker 1: and Ben Simmons are all celebrating together down there in
Speaker 1: the bubble. That was nice to see. Yeah, No, it's
Speaker 1: been great. So as we speak, the scrimmages just started,
Speaker 1: and I gotta tell you it looked fantastic. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, understatement, but the league is pulling this off.
Speaker 1: They've done an incredible job, the NBA and player safety
Speaker 1: staff safety creating the bubble and now scrimmages and soon games.
Speaker 1: I thought it was just fantastic to watch that initial
Speaker 1: day of scrimmages. Yeah, I agreed. No, I think there's
Speaker 1: there's definitely been avoid in my life for the last
Speaker 1: few months as we've kind of navigated this covid uh
Speaker 1: and you know, having basketball back on our TV screens,
Speaker 1: you know, back on the radio. I think it's it's
Speaker 1: an important part of kind of scidal fabric, something that
Speaker 1: brings us together. And I'm so happy to be you know,
Speaker 1: watching basketball, seeing clips on Twitter. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: it's fantastic. Well, you bring me to a point that
Speaker 1: maybe I was going to bring up later, But you
Speaker 1: love game day. My image of you is walking in coat.
Speaker 1: You grew up in Canada. It's twenty five degrees, you
Speaker 1: have no coat, but it's game day and that is
Speaker 1: your You just love game day. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's you know, my father, you know, when I was young,
Speaker 1: kind of gave me the advice. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people will get. It's, you know, find something you
Speaker 1: love and find a way to get people to pay
Speaker 1: you to do it. Um, you know, and I love love,
Speaker 1: love basketball, and so uh, I think it's it's really
Speaker 1: easy in the in this life working for a team,
Speaker 1: to get caught up in the grind and the stress
Speaker 1: and all that. But if you don't love the actual thing,
Speaker 1: if you don't love watching practice and love watching games,
Speaker 1: I love watching scrimmages. I just like it's I don't
Speaker 1: know why you would choose to do it, right, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I know the second that you know you get to
Speaker 1: the arena, and then there's the people and then the
Speaker 1: vibe and everything else. It's just it's so kind of
Speaker 1: fulfilling and rewarding for me. Couldn't agree more. Hopefully we'll
Speaker 1: have that in the weeks and months to come, and
Speaker 1: we're going to get into that a little bit because
Speaker 1: you had a session with a San Francisco lawyer many
Speaker 1: years ago that said, it sounds like you really love basketball.
Speaker 1: You probably should go into that. But we'll talk about
Speaker 1: that in a moment, because you have a great background,
Speaker 1: very intriguing to me and certainly in the education realm.
Speaker 1: But let's talk a little bit about the seventy six
Speaker 1: ers in the bubble. Many of the staff members are
Speaker 1: still back with you in Philadelphia at the training facility.
Speaker 1: You can only bring a party that number thirty seven
Speaker 1: and obviously fifteen and those are players. But what do
Speaker 1: you think about as you get read as a sixer's
Speaker 1: take on the Grizzlies and their scrimmage Folk City and
Speaker 1: I like that, and eventually that first seeding game against
Speaker 1: the Indiana Pacers. Yeah, So, I mean, our our focus
Speaker 1: for the last three four weeks and as you said
Speaker 1: yesterday that the scrimmages yesterday were it was. I felt
Speaker 1: a really high level of basketball for being day one
Speaker 1: after a multi month layoff, certainly higher than you would
Speaker 1: expect to see in the normal course kind of after
Speaker 1: the offseason. And I think our focus organizational he has
Speaker 1: very much been on delivering healthy, in shape players, with
Speaker 1: emphasis on the healthy obviously given what's going on in
Speaker 1: the world, and so you know, Elton's focus and directive
Speaker 1: and what we have all been focused on the staff
Speaker 1: has been that, right, let's let's do everything we can
Speaker 1: to keep our players safe. And a lot of times
Speaker 1: that's involved, you know, putting the brakes on things, being
Speaker 1: more slow and more deliberate, more safety and costs oriented.
Speaker 1: But so far, you know, knock on wood, our team
Speaker 1: has been looking great in craining and kind of this
Speaker 1: abbreviator training camp leading into scrimmages. So yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see what they look like tomorrow. It should
Speaker 1: be really good. So let's talk about Elton brand He's
Speaker 1: the general manager. He leads a group, a great group,
Speaker 1: but with yourself and Ned Cohen and Vince Rosman and
Speaker 1: any number Rob Newsman, any number of people. Elton was
Speaker 1: a great player seventeen year career. A high character guy, tough, strong, smart,
Speaker 1: what's he's been like a leader for your group and
Speaker 1: this team. Yeah so so I obviously he came to
Speaker 1: the organization I think four years ago, and you know
Speaker 1: Mett Elton right away, and that was when Elton was
Speaker 1: transitioning away from playing to sort of a front office
Speaker 1: apprenticeship type role. Brian Clansolo had hired him to do
Speaker 1: kind of a general you know, kind of apprenticeship, and
Speaker 1: then he assumed ad league position as the general manager
Speaker 1: down there, and I think that you know, so I
Speaker 1: got to know him as a colleague for the first
Speaker 1: couple of years and it was just really impressed by
Speaker 1: his inquisitiveness. He asked a lot of questions, was clearly
Speaker 1: an active listener and like absorbing on the information. And
Speaker 1: then when I engage with him privately, like just really wise,
Speaker 1: really thoughtful, and now he approached things. Obviously, two years ago,
Speaker 1: Josh Harris David Blitzer made a choice to elevate him
Speaker 1: to join a manager and you know, looking back, I
Speaker 1: think it was a really inspired selection just and again
Speaker 1: I'm openly biased. Right, one of the first things Elton
Speaker 1: did was promote me to my current position. And you know,
Speaker 1: he's an incredible leader, right, just incredibly thoughtful, incredibly perceptive,
Speaker 1: incredibly bright, asks really tough questions, pushes us as an
Speaker 1: exact group every day. But I value that, like I
Speaker 1: want to be pushed, I want to be questioned, and
Speaker 1: he does that. And just kind of his feel for players,
Speaker 1: his feel for coaches, his feel for other exects. It's
Speaker 1: been just fantastic watching him operate and kind of a
Speaker 1: privilege to help, you know, implement his vision across the organization.
Speaker 1: And you do that on a day lead basis, because
Speaker 1: as you say, Elton Brand has a huge portfolio. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are so many areas that he's responsible for in
Speaker 1: his role as general manager. Yeah, and you're my phrase,
Speaker 1: but kind of the boots on the ground, with the scouting,
Speaker 1: with players, with the players, the coaching staff, and life
Speaker 1: goes on. Our NBA schedule has been altered, but there
Speaker 1: will be a draft this season, will begin anew a
Speaker 1: full season the twenty one twenty two campaign, whether that's
Speaker 1: in December, whenever that occurs. And granted there's been a
Speaker 1: hiatus and now here comes the action, which is the
Speaker 1: focus as well, it should be you've got a lot
Speaker 1: on your play kind of explain everything that you oversee
Speaker 1: a right underneath Alton brand sure, so kind of within
Speaker 1: within the broader basketball operations umbrella, you have those elements, right,
Speaker 1: So you've got the obviously the team and the coaching
Speaker 1: staff that works directly with them and for them. Then
Speaker 1: you've got kind of the two primary player support departments
Speaker 1: Athlete care sort of our medical performance group, and then
Speaker 1: player development was our development coaches, our G league program,
Speaker 1: team security, a few other things. So like those are
Speaker 1: all the staff members that support at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, our players and so that group. And then
Speaker 1: on the kind of one layer further removed, you've got
Speaker 1: the scouting department as you mentioned, and then our research
Speaker 1: and development department with analytics. So that's all in all
Speaker 1: about eighty ninety people in basketball ops. And you know,
Speaker 1: so you've got Elton obviously, who's in charge of the
Speaker 1: general manager, the man and a friend of mine in
Speaker 1: the hockey world actually mentioned to me a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago that you know, as you look back on
Speaker 1: twenty years ago and you look at the responsibility or
Speaker 1: front office twenty years ago compared to now, it's just
Speaker 1: so much more complex. There are so many more stakeholders,
Speaker 1: so many more responsibilities one person the kind of the
Speaker 1: dictator GM of twenty years ago. I don't think that
Speaker 1: can happen anymore. It's just so much more complex the
Speaker 1: world that we live in. So so you see a
Speaker 1: lot more kind of diffuse specialized front offices and a
Speaker 1: lot of ways and so again it involves a lot
Speaker 1: of coordination, a lot of collaboration between us internally with
Speaker 1: the business side, with our media partners, with fans, with
Speaker 1: the community. So my job is sort of again make
Speaker 1: sure that Elton's vision is implemented as he intends, and
Speaker 1: then involves a lot of kind of grunt work. But yeah,
Speaker 1: to your point, the last three months, certainly it's been
Speaker 1: unusual and unprecedented the hiatus, But yeah, the pre draft
Speaker 1: work has continue to pace. You know, we've had it
Speaker 1: was a period of the first three months where were
Speaker 1: having I think three or four scouting meetings a day virtually.
Speaker 1: Of course, as we all transition to the Zoom lifestyle
Speaker 1: and then kind of overlaid with that would have been
Speaker 1: the off season preparation. We didn't know for a period
Speaker 1: of time if we were going to hit the off
Speaker 1: season or we're gonna get more games, And now we're
Speaker 1: looking at this compressed, which will be exciting off season
Speaker 1: once we get through the playoffs. And obviously that's the
Speaker 1: real focus day to day, but we're also having to
Speaker 1: prepare for the draft in October, free agency in October,
Speaker 1: and then the resumption of next season in October November.
Speaker 1: So when you were talking about preparing for the draft,
Speaker 1: I talked to another team scouting, one of the scouts,
Speaker 1: and they had to do a lot of these zoom
Speaker 1: meetings with prospective draftees players over zoom, like typically what
Speaker 1: you might do in Chicago or you might bring a
Speaker 1: young player in. Did you guys have to do that
Speaker 1: as well? Yeah, So the league, I want to say
Speaker 1: it was about two months ago, don't don't pin me
Speaker 1: down to the date, but opened up the door and said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can do prospect interviews now. So we were doing
Speaker 1: a really rigorous schedule of that up until further recently.
Speaker 1: So you know, probably a few times a week I
Speaker 1: would be on zoom calls with six, eight, ten people
Speaker 1: to include a draft prospect, and you do. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, it's really
Speaker 1: about what happens on the basketball court. But I think
Speaker 1: we all know that as you look at an eighteen, nineteen,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one year old, it's so difficult to kind
Speaker 1: of read the tea leaves, and I think you want
Speaker 1: to get as much information you can. The chance to
Speaker 1: talk to a guy, even if it is him, I
Speaker 1: think has a lot of value. So we definitely talked
Speaker 1: to a whole bunch of potential sixers over the last
Speaker 1: few weeks speaking of those interviews, and this is when
Speaker 1: it struck me that boy Elton Brand is perfect for this.
Speaker 1: And this goes back a few years probably he was
Speaker 1: at that time with the Delaware Blue Coats, as we know,
Speaker 1: he served as general manager there. But he went on
Speaker 1: those meetings in Chicago, and you know, as a former
Speaker 1: player and knowing the whole athlete mindset and just as
Speaker 1: you say, asking tough questions. When somebody said a meeting
Speaker 1: member asked him, you know, what, what's your role on that?
Speaker 1: And you know, he talked about being very direct with
Speaker 1: these prospects. You you have a post. He was asking like,
Speaker 1: what's your support system? And kind of a blunt question
Speaker 1: that really from an athlete from a former NBA stars
Speaker 1: two time All Star that that matters to get to
Speaker 1: the core of some of the questions when you're speaking
Speaker 1: about character or what you might expect from a particular athlete. Correct, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so I've spent the bulk of my life
Speaker 1: studying basketball, right, like I'm a student of the game.
Speaker 1: Elton lived it, right. I mean, he was an NBA
Speaker 1: All Star. He was in the NBA for nearly twenty years,
Speaker 1: you know, playing ex definitely a higher level, and then
Speaker 1: suffering an injury and then kind of kind of experiencing that.
Speaker 1: So he's sort of experienced the full spectrum of what
Speaker 1: it means to be an NBA player, top to bottom.
Speaker 1: So he's much better position to know the right questions
Speaker 1: to ask, to ask them, and frankly to get the
Speaker 1: answers right. I mean, Elton Brand asking a question of
Speaker 1: a nineteen to twenty one year old is a very
Speaker 1: different thing, and then Alex Rucker or Vince rosman or
Speaker 1: and then Cohen or anyone else. It just carries that
Speaker 1: different different weight and a different sense of perception. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and your background, and again you have two degrees. You
Speaker 1: got a law degree, and I love that so I
Speaker 1: want to get into that. As I mentioned, but your
Speaker 1: background as far as the NBA goes is it was
Speaker 1: in an analytics She spends seven years with Toronto and
Speaker 1: as you said, you studied the game, and you guys
Speaker 1: have really built out the robust staff. The Sixers ownership
Speaker 1: has been really supportive and into that kind of explain
Speaker 1: that because I know back in the day you probably
Speaker 1: had a you know, the whole eye check and you
Speaker 1: know that thing where the old basketball types didn't really
Speaker 1: welcome analytics. And I think that obviously has passed. But
Speaker 1: just and you were one of the first guys into
Speaker 1: this sports view which has become standing standard operating procedure
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Give us as lay people, if you
Speaker 1: will give us a little look see into that how
Speaker 1: it's evolved over the years and what it is today. Analytics. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: So I think that it's interesting. I think for most
Speaker 1: people sort of Moneyball that both the book by Michael
Speaker 1: Lewis and then the subsequent movie starring Brad Pitt, it's
Speaker 1: sort of the mainstream introduction into quote unquote analytics. I've
Speaker 1: never loved that particular label. To me. It's whether it's
Speaker 1: a front office or our scouting group or a coaching
Speaker 1: staff or even players. Basketball is this dynamic, you know,
Speaker 1: vibrant thing, and in this thing, there are so many
Speaker 1: decisions being made. Those decisions are made based on information, right.
Speaker 1: I don't think at any level someone's just you know, hey,
Speaker 1: whatever or you know, whatever moves me emotionally, I'm going
Speaker 1: to just do that. It's like no, no, They're all
Speaker 1: making decisions based on their experiences, based on what they're observing,
Speaker 1: based on what they're feeling. And I think that the
Speaker 1: analytics movement, really starting in baseball in the eighties and
Speaker 1: then kind of diving more into the other main sports
Speaker 1: more in the nineties and early two thousands, really was
Speaker 1: an effort to, hey, we have, in the advent of computers,
Speaker 1: in the advent of the internet, so much more information,
Speaker 1: objective information about this thing, and let's try to apply
Speaker 1: that to help inform our decisions. And as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: kind of Josh Harris David Blitzer very focused on kind
Speaker 1: of evidence based decision making, Like we're gonna make some
Speaker 1: highly complex, important decisions, let's make sure those decisions are
Speaker 1: based on the best possible information. So I would say
Speaker 1: that to the layman if you will analytics and sports
Speaker 1: or anywhere, is just a desire to get the best
Speaker 1: possible information. Data. Data is there's another word for information,
Speaker 1: and give that to decision makers in a form that
Speaker 1: they can digest and make better decisions. Hopefully we'll have
Speaker 1: more of my conversation with Alex Rucker in a moment.
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Speaker 1: more information, visit novacare dot com. Now back to my
Speaker 1: chat with Alex Rucker of the six or Front Office.
Speaker 1: Let's jump one step ahead to the players. Because when
Speaker 1: you said dynamic and it's free flowing, you think of
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons. I mean, obviously, the strength of his game
Speaker 1: is his incredible athleticism and his ability at times to
Speaker 1: grab the ball off the defensive glass and run at
Speaker 1: the length of the floor so at some point coach
Speaker 1: or one of the coaches sits with them and explains,
Speaker 1: I mean, we all know that threes are better than
Speaker 1: long twos. We all understand some basic, rudimentary elements of analytics.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think of an artist. When Simmons
Speaker 1: is flying down the court and he's processing all this information,
Speaker 1: at some point somebody sat down. Obviously, if he gets
Speaker 1: to the rim, he gets to the rim, that's the
Speaker 1: best shot. But you know what I mean, like, how
Speaker 1: does it get how does it get boiled down to
Speaker 1: the players. So in the flow of the game, the
Speaker 1: light goes on, Oh right, I'm supposed to kick it
Speaker 1: out for a three, How does it actually manifest itself
Speaker 1: to the players. I know the coaches try to strategize
Speaker 1: and think what works and whatnot, and there's probably solely
Speaker 1: layers and layers, But to the point about the players,
Speaker 1: what would you say there? Yeah, so I think you're
Speaker 1: right initially that there's sort of two lanes. Right. One
Speaker 1: is the coaching lane of they're taking these information, they're
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about it, and they're trying to put
Speaker 1: a structure in place that puts players in a position
Speaker 1: to succeed, Right, like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: that's what that whether you're talking strategy, tactics, schemes or whatever.
Speaker 1: On the player side, So, as I mentioned, we are
Speaker 1: this kind of robust player development department. They're really the
Speaker 1: primary emissaries at the player level, right. So you'll see
Speaker 1: before games, each of our players will sit down and
Speaker 1: do video study with one of our deav coaches, right,
Speaker 1: And so that's not you know, twenty years ago that
Speaker 1: was a dev coach who had just you know, done
Speaker 1: some video editing and grab some clips and said, hey,
Speaker 1: let's look at these. And now I think it's part
Speaker 1: of a more holistic process where Brett Elton have to
Speaker 1: kind of determine our team scheme, our team identity, and
Speaker 1: then that trickles down to the assistant coach of development
Speaker 1: coaches and so there's a collective alignment on Hey, these
Speaker 1: are the things that the Ben Simmons are, the firk
Speaker 1: on Cork mods are that you know, Shake Milton or
Speaker 1: Al Horford should be focused on based on a broad
Speaker 1: period of time or even more recently or in particular
Speaker 1: tomorrow's appoint or today's opponent. So I think it's using
Speaker 1: the tools that they're comfortable with and familiar with, which
Speaker 1: it's frankly video in conversation. Right, let's watch something and
Speaker 1: let's have a shared experience of what this means and
Speaker 1: what we might do differently or better in that situation.
Speaker 1: So is that answer the question? Yeah, absolutely, I trust
Speaker 1: me because that's when I used to interview the players
Speaker 1: and now they're with a coach. I'm so sorry about.
Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with that. And you have I think
Speaker 1: virtually the facility. It's just an unbelievable basketball facility and
Speaker 1: in there and fans you know, wouldn't be pretty to this,
Speaker 1: but and I say this in the best possible way,
Speaker 1: it's like a basketball factory. And I speak of getting
Speaker 1: back to the analytics. You know, you have a staff
Speaker 1: of whatever it is, eight to ten people working with
Speaker 1: huge screens. I mean, you would think it's from Wall
Speaker 1: Street or whatever. And they're in there and they're all
Speaker 1: at work, and they're interpreting this information as you say,
Speaker 1: the data by way an example like the sports view
Speaker 1: and for fans that are on a custom that's all
Speaker 1: these cameras and again it didn't exist, but now it
Speaker 1: does in every single NBA arena. And again trying to interpret,
Speaker 1: you know, as just a lay person basketball. Why to
Speaker 1: me it looks like Doppler radar when you see all
Speaker 1: the dots around the three point circle. And again there's
Speaker 1: probably so many things catch and shoot. Tell me a
Speaker 1: little bit about that because, as I say, you have
Speaker 1: that staff at work on all of those things. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, when I kind of first came here
Speaker 1: to the train, sauld and Canaden like, yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: as far as I know, kind of the most high tech,
Speaker 1: most kind of sophisticated basketball. You know, factories you said,
Speaker 1: you know, designed to support our program are not players
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis. So it's it's an
Speaker 1: an incredible privilege. Honestly, I pinched myself every morning going
Speaker 1: into work that I get to work there. It's amazing
Speaker 1: kind of to work for the six or to work
Speaker 1: a place like that, to work for God like Elton.
Speaker 1: It's just this is amazing, right, this dream come true.
Speaker 1: Now to your question kind of about sport for you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that gets back to the whole basketball in the world.
Speaker 1: It become someone more sophisticated. So as you said, there
Speaker 1: are six, you know, high definition cameras in every NBA
Speaker 1: Arena and now down in Orlando for our games there,
Speaker 1: and that gives us just an incredible depth of information
Speaker 1: about what's happening on the basketball court wherever one at
Speaker 1: every point in time was tracked, you know, thirty five
Speaker 1: times per second, where the basketball is at all points
Speaker 1: in time, and then you can take that, as you said,
Speaker 1: kind of once you've got that raw data set, you
Speaker 1: can then convert that into basketball This is a catch
Speaker 1: and shoot, This is a bounce pass, this is a
Speaker 1: you know, trap on a pick and roll. You can
Speaker 1: identify all those sorts of things and once you've got
Speaker 1: that layer, then you can convert that into something intuitive
Speaker 1: to a basketball person. Right, we can say this is
Speaker 1: every single pick and roll that shake Milton ran, and
Speaker 1: these are the sorts of coverages and these are the
Speaker 1: ones that worked well or didn't work well. So that
Speaker 1: that crew that you mentioned, that group, you know, again,
Speaker 1: we're very proud of them. It is sort of like
Speaker 1: you know, being an MIT science club, if you will.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they're able to kind of convert all that
Speaker 1: massive data in games and even outside in the training
Speaker 1: environment into something that helps informed decisions. Let's talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about your background. You went to Notre Dame,
Speaker 1: which you got a law degree, which I want to
Speaker 1: get to in a second. But you spent eleven years
Speaker 1: in the United States Navy. What was that like? What
Speaker 1: were some of your jobs in the Navy. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I joined the Navy and and went to Officer Candidate school.
Speaker 1: So military is kind of split between enlisted and officers,
Speaker 1: and if you've got a college background, you're you're eligible
Speaker 1: to serve as an officer. So I joined and actually
Speaker 1: shortly after nine eleven. For me, that was something of
Speaker 1: a call to service. There's a kind of pretty rich
Speaker 1: military tradition in my family, and when nine eleven happened,
Speaker 1: I felt that it was important that I contribute some
Speaker 1: part of my life to my community beyond just doing
Speaker 1: what I wanted, which is basketball. So you served for
Speaker 1: nearly eleven years. I went in when the officer candidate school,
Speaker 1: joined the aviation pipeline to become an able aviator pilot,
Speaker 1: So I flew the P three O Ryan for big
Speaker 1: chunk of my time in the military. Also had the
Speaker 1: privilege of serving for three years at the US Naval Academy,
Speaker 1: where I was a teacher, and then I spent my
Speaker 1: last two and a half years based in Yokolska, Japan,
Speaker 1: serving on Admiral staff, So kind of living in Japan,
Speaker 1: kind of experiencing Japan, Korea, China, Philippines, a little bit
Speaker 1: of Australia, although not as much as I might have enjoyed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the benefits of the Navy is that you
Speaker 1: have kind of a core thing being a pilot, but
Speaker 1: they also put you in positions to expand and grow
Speaker 1: your leadership in different areas. So I definitely got an
Speaker 1: array of really fascinating experiences. It was definitely hard at times.
Speaker 1: It's hard as a father, hard as a husband, but
Speaker 1: the actual lived experience, you get a chance to do
Speaker 1: things that no one gets to do, and you get
Speaker 1: a chance to interact with people across just such a
Speaker 1: broad cross section of America, and that really opened drives
Speaker 1: to again learning about how different people's lives communities are. Wow, fascinating.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your service. But you grew up in Vancouver,
Speaker 1: British Columbia, Canada, which is you know, obviously they had
Speaker 1: to grizzlies when I first started twenty five years ago,
Speaker 1: and we all loved going there. It's just talking about
Speaker 1: the sea and the mountains. What a gorgeous place. Give
Speaker 1: us a little look, see if you would, to what
Speaker 1: it was like growing up in Vancouver. Yeah, so, I
Speaker 1: mean Vancouver's you said, it's an amazing, amazing city, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of nestled there by the ocean, just north of Seattle,
Speaker 1: and you know, you're about a half hour drive to
Speaker 1: beautiful downhill ski mountains just to the north. So I
Speaker 1: think the combination of sort of downhill skiing in the
Speaker 1: winter and then going to relax in the beach in
Speaker 1: the summer is fairly unique in North America. So, and
Speaker 1: I also think really enjoyed just the level of multiculturalism
Speaker 1: and acceptance. I didn't, honestly. It's it's interesting though, the
Speaker 1: kind of the last few weeks with respect to the
Speaker 1: conversation and focus on social justice and racism. Growing up
Speaker 1: in Vancouver, it wasn't that there wasn't racism or kind
Speaker 1: of community problem, but it was much less present than
Speaker 1: it is in certain, you know, areas of this country.
Speaker 1: So it was I think great for me to grow
Speaker 1: up in an area where there were large immigrant communities
Speaker 1: in a really positive and open way. And as you said,
Speaker 1: like they when the Gristins were there. They were just
Speaker 1: passionate supporters of that program, and that was kind of
Speaker 1: a fun a few years there as well. So gem
Speaker 1: place I remember talking to my parents. The first place
Speaker 1: we stayed was a Marriott and it was right on
Speaker 1: the bay. And as I was looking out the window
Speaker 1: of a biplane land that I was like given play
Speaker 1: by play because it was literally right outside the hotel window.
Speaker 1: And then years later the league had meetings there. I
Speaker 1: went on the Capellano Suspension Bridge, where I took a
Speaker 1: boat at a ferry across the bay, went into a neighborhood,
Speaker 1: and then there was this unbelievable bridge that went across
Speaker 1: the gorge. So and as you say, Whistler is right
Speaker 1: there and just an awesome, beautiful scenery there. But your
Speaker 1: background includes two degrees, one in business at the University
Speaker 1: of Bridge, Columbia, and an education background is Simon Fraser.
Speaker 1: And you say that normal is a social fixtion. You
Speaker 1: loved high school clearly you loved the interaction, getting challenge, challenging.
Speaker 1: People talk a bit about this, you know, this thirst
Speaker 1: for knowledge in a long lasting to drive for education. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, as you mentioned, I loved high school. Right
Speaker 1: there was a point where I was like, this is fantastic, right,
Speaker 1: Like all I need to care about is going to school,
Speaker 1: learning stuff, becoming a better person, hang out with my friends,
Speaker 1: learning from you know, wise teachers. Like that was just
Speaker 1: such an amazing thing to be a reality of life. Right.
Speaker 1: And then you get to college and it's much more focused,
Speaker 1: like you're choosing exactly the sorts of things you're going
Speaker 1: to study, and again it gets much deeper. And so
Speaker 1: I just I love reading, I love engaging with people collectually,
Speaker 1: and that is kind of the the key environment for
Speaker 1: that to happen, right, Like, that's when you're at college.
Speaker 1: That's the only responsibility. You don't have to make money,
Speaker 1: you don't have to it's like, literally, that's it. Your
Speaker 1: job is to learn and engage with really bright people. So,
Speaker 1: whether it was UBC or Simon Fraser, Notre Dame just
Speaker 1: and even obviously in the Enable Academy when I was
Speaker 1: working there as well, these academic institutions have been just
Speaker 1: such incredible environments landscape for me to grow and be pushed.
Speaker 1: And Yeah, as I've mentioned to you, probably I would
Speaker 1: I would have been in school forever but for the
Speaker 1: inevitable bankruptcy that would have occurred. So yeah, I know
Speaker 1: that being a lifelong learner is just kind of central
Speaker 1: to who I am. I as that's so refreshing because
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately a lot of young people today think
Speaker 1: of college as it's going to be a great party
Speaker 1: and I'm going to get a job instead of the
Speaker 1: actual part of being educated and being more well rounded
Speaker 1: and more well read and learning analytically and whatnot. But
Speaker 1: that's my own personal, my own personal soapbox there. And
Speaker 1: then you went to Notre Dame. You weren't done. You
Speaker 1: go to South ben and you're getting a law degree.
Speaker 1: You were there during you helped out Muffet McGraw on
Speaker 1: the women's basketball side. There were three men's coaches there,
Speaker 1: finishing with Mike Gray, but Matt Doherty and John McCloud.
Speaker 1: What was life like in terms of going to law
Speaker 1: school at the University of Notre Yeah, so again, you know,
Speaker 1: coming from Canada, you know, it was definitely on a
Speaker 1: big experience. South Bend, Indiana is kind of a very
Speaker 1: different place in general, and then Notre Dame itself, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of a storied Catholic institution. I will say that,
Speaker 1: you know, I look back on that time as being
Speaker 1: an incredibly rich intellectual one, I was honestly surrounded by
Speaker 1: some of the best, brightest people I've ever encountered in
Speaker 1: my life. Right just to be around that caliber of
Speaker 1: human being was such a you know, blessing, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, it was. It was fantastic. Like some of
Speaker 1: these people that I met, there were some of the best,
Speaker 1: most thoughtful, most currying people I've ever met, and really intelligent,
Speaker 1: really pushing the intellectually, so that that aspect was fantastic.
Speaker 1: Obviously being at this kind of big history, sporting or
Speaker 1: you know, college as well, it was fantastic. And as
Speaker 1: you said, the chance to work with just a diverse
Speaker 1: array of college coaches on the men and women's side
Speaker 1: was really formative for me. And I will say that
Speaker 1: the I told people, you know, many people, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm now forty five years old, and the single most
Speaker 1: challenging thing I've ever done was the first semester of
Speaker 1: law school, right like that. It was such, it was
Speaker 1: such a fire hose of you know, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: everyone goes to law school having enjoyed success academically before
Speaker 1: that point, and then you really do you know, just
Speaker 1: run right into a brick wall, and you're learning a
Speaker 1: new language. Right, People don't think of laws being it's
Speaker 1: a new language. Like when you start reading legal cases,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of Latin, and you you're literally referencing
Speaker 1: a translator book as you read through these passages because
Speaker 1: you don't understand half of the terms. It's just it's
Speaker 1: such a you know, splash of the face of trying
Speaker 1: to figure out the language and trying to think through things,
Speaker 1: and the teachers push you really hard, like it's not
Speaker 1: based green comprehensions, what is the reasoning behind it? And
Speaker 1: how are you defending that using other cases? And it
Speaker 1: just it was such a boot camp in thinking and
Speaker 1: writing and research and in retrospect. It was fantastic. But
Speaker 1: the first few months you have this is this too
Speaker 1: much for me? Is this beyond me? There there were
Speaker 1: definitely those moments of some doubt. Well you mentioned because
Speaker 1: you actually, I'm sure you use your law degree all
Speaker 1: the time, but obviously you're not in the courts and
Speaker 1: not practicing law. And then my father was a lawyer
Speaker 1: and did the same thing, ended up being a big president.
Speaker 1: But to the point about the Latin, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: because he took Latin and that years of it and
Speaker 1: like I should take Latin. It's the only course I
Speaker 1: ever dropped because I was like thirty minutes in, I
Speaker 1: go father, I need to see after class, and I
Speaker 1: was out. And then I growing up as an Irish
Speaker 1: Catholic young guy and in the Midwest, Notre Dame was
Speaker 1: the mecca. And in fact, I went out there for years,
Speaker 1: like three or four years in a row as a
Speaker 1: junior high kid and watched the football back when Error
Speaker 1: Parsigion was the head coach. So I definitely have an
Speaker 1: affinity for Notre Dame. But you you spoke to me
Speaker 1: about when you got out of law school. You were
Speaker 1: sitting with a lawyer in San Francisco, and obviously he
Speaker 1: asked you about your background, and this gets to what
Speaker 1: we just spoke of the law. But he said, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be a lawyer, you go go
Speaker 1: pursue basketball. He could sense in you that that was
Speaker 1: your passion. Tell me about that. Yeah, so it was.
Speaker 1: It sounds nice when you say it. So it was
Speaker 1: actually a job interview with a you know, person that
Speaker 1: I've been connected to with your Notre Dame, and so
Speaker 1: I was out flown out San Francisco for this job interview.
Speaker 1: I was in my mind at least thinking this would
Speaker 1: be an amazing opportunity to get get a job of
Speaker 1: this law firm. And he was a partner there and yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, probably halfway through our lunch together, he's like, yeah, Alex,
Speaker 1: you you don't want to be a lawyer. And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's a studying revelation, given that I I just spent three
Speaker 1: years studying it, and I was hoping you'd hired me
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer. But no, And then and explained
Speaker 1: as you did, which is like, it's it was clear
Speaker 1: from our conversation that you know what I was passionate about,
Speaker 1: what I really found fulfilling was my time working with
Speaker 1: the basketball programs while in law school. And that you know,
Speaker 1: he's hasn't all is not lost. You know, you've got
Speaker 1: the law degree in the reality is, as long as
Speaker 1: you have that, people will think you're smart, whether you
Speaker 1: are or not. I was like, oh, that's pretty strength.
Speaker 1: So but I will say that a lot of people
Speaker 1: that get law degrees. I would say that there's a
Speaker 1: big chunk of my colleagues from law school who initially
Speaker 1: did go work as lawyers, and I did too for
Speaker 1: a year. But you know, I think it's quite common
Speaker 1: to go work in law firm or work in public
Speaker 1: practice for a while and then you know, delafie, whether
Speaker 1: it's into management or some other foreign public service or
Speaker 1: politics or anything. And as I said, I think law
Speaker 1: school you don't learn the law so much as you
Speaker 1: learn reading, writing, research and thinking right like these just
Speaker 1: really foundational skills to a wide array of disciplines right
Speaker 1: case law and whatnot. Interesting. So we're going to close
Speaker 1: with Canadian basketball as part of your background. Obviously I
Speaker 1: mentioned the Raptors for seven years, but you work with
Speaker 1: the US men's team in Canada and Canadian basketball. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of prepping a little bit for the Sixest play
Speaker 1: Oklahoma over the weekend and in another scrimmage, and that
Speaker 1: Shay Gildes Alexander the second year guard for them, and
Speaker 1: Barrett and on Steve Nash of course, on and on
Speaker 1: and on the way that Canadian basketball has taken off,
Speaker 1: and clearly the NBA going there twenty five years ago
Speaker 1: has been intricral in the transition. But you've seen it all.
Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing how much that Canadian basketball has taken
Speaker 1: off and how many players they produced at an extremely
Speaker 1: high level here in the States and specifically in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know. I mean when I you know,
Speaker 1: was born in the seventies and eighties, you know, basketball
Speaker 1: in Canada wasn't even a fraction of what it's become now.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because, you know, Vince Carter recently retired,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure how well inderstood it is just
Speaker 1: the depth of impact that Vince Carter had during his
Speaker 1: time with the Raptors. I mean, just the level of
Speaker 1: excitement and passion for basketball in as the whole country
Speaker 1: of Canada, but not just Toronto, but the entire country.
Speaker 1: What Vince did his first few years there in Toronto
Speaker 1: really did, I think, plant the seed for what we're
Speaker 1: seeing now, right. And when you talk to guys like
Speaker 1: you know, Andrew Wiggins or as you said, Steve Nash,
Speaker 1: or like any of these guys, they all kind of
Speaker 1: are aware of the role that he played in their lives, right,
Speaker 1: and especially this kind of younger generation you said, like
Speaker 1: Shay Gilgith, Alexander, you know, RJ. Barrett. You know, there's
Speaker 1: kind of a ton of guys who are coming along
Speaker 1: now in the NBA, who are again part of that
Speaker 1: you know, if you will, that that that playing tree,
Speaker 1: that that kind of seeded or was seated by Vince Carter.
Speaker 1: So you know, I think we're we from Canada are
Speaker 1: really grateful for what Vince did for the country, for
Speaker 1: the sport of basketball. But yeah, it's it's absolutely during
Speaker 1: during our lifetime seeing sort of the extent to which
Speaker 1: Canada basketball has grown to develop these high level NBA players.
Speaker 1: It's been just so fun, so fascinating, awarding to watch, Alex.
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough, great conversation. We wish you
Speaker 1: the best. We'll see us soon. Thank you, Thanks so much,
Speaker 1: Tom appreciate it. Thanks for listening to Tom's talks with
Speaker 1: me Tom McGinnis on the seventy six Ers podcast network.
Speaker 1: Check for new episodes every weekend.