1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Good day, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: Josh Clark, There's Charles w. Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry. The 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: trio was reunited like Peaches and Herb and Cream. Peaches 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: and Herb and Cream. Yeah, didn't Peaches and Herb sing 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: reunited and it feels so good. Yeah, but I don't 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: know how you're Clapton figures in. Well, there's three of 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: us here. Oh, gotcha. And Clapton was an all cream. 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: I mean, Ginger Baker was a force to be reckoned 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: with two good point? He still is? Is he still alive? 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: And unless he died recently. I saw a great documentary 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: about him. Yeah. I haven't actually watched it. Is it good? Yeah? 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: He just looks like it is. He's quite a dude. Yeah. 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: I'm excited already to watch it and you should check 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: it out, Okay, I will. Um. Oh have you seen Hereditary? Oh? Yeah, 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: I saw that in the theater. That's pretty cool. Huh. 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: I liked it. I did too. I like just about 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: anything puts out. Yeah. Yeah, shout out to eight to four. Yeah. 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: Um so, speaking of a twenty four and horror movies, Chuck. 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: We were down in Australia recently. We just got back. Yeah, 21 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: I'm sick. I know I am not. I can't believe it, 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: but I'm not. Yeah, I got sicken. Where was it Sydney? 23 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you were starting to kind of feel under 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: the weather, Hugh, it just got full blown. You seemed 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: okay on the flight back though that those were the beginnings. 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: I think my body was in combat mode. And then 27 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: when I got back here, it just it lowered its defenses. 28 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: It said I'm home, and I got some weird Australian 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: Australian rhino virus man walking around the airport. It was like, 30 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: what what you just sneezed on me? What is that? 31 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: What was that? Yeah? And we should point out to 32 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: people that we took ten plane flights in eleven days. 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: Is yes, we did, so that that's a pretty good 34 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: way to get sick. Yeah, and let's see there it 35 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: was Atlanta to l A five hours, LA to Sydney 36 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: fourteen hours, Sydney to Perth another four or five hours. 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: This was all in like one stretch. There was like 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: two hour layovers in between those three flights, and it 39 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: was it was about a thirty three hour experience getting there. Yeah, 40 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: and it's not the same on the way home. Yeah, 41 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: it was, and it was totally worth it too, I 42 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: would agree, although when we come back, we're gonna route 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: things a bit differently. Yeah. Yeah, Like when when we 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: landed in Sydney, I remember my first thought was, why 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: can't we just start here? Yeah? Uh, but there there's 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: no magic route, but there's probably a better one. Well, 47 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: we did the black Magic route if there, if there 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: is such a thing. Yeah, but boy, uh it was 49 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: a grind, but we had a great time. Um had 50 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: a couple of days off in between, which was I 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: don't know if I would have made it had it 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: not been for those days. Yeah. I think you're right. 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: I think has been too grueling to do like five 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: cities in five days. Yeah yeah, and those yeah, they 55 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: were cool down days too. You spent most of the 56 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: time in Melbourne. Actually south of Melbourne, I went to 57 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: the Mornington Peninsula. Well yeah, so you, me and I 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: were down there too. That's where we saw the penguins 59 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: marching from the ocean and gorgeous down there. That's like 60 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: their wine country, right, it's one of them. There's another 61 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: wine country the year of valley north of Melbourne, but 62 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: this is the one by the ocean. Yeah, so wine 63 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: country Slash the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen, and 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: you pretty much get happy chuck. Yeah, that's cool, man. 65 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: And we spent another day in Sydney to which is 66 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: a pretty cool town. Um, just walking around the Opera 67 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: house alone is worth it. But there's a lot of 68 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: cool stuff to do there too. Yeah. I went zip lining, 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: I went nice, I went to the beach, I went 70 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: to drink a lot of wine, went to a lot 71 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: of wineries. And it was that time of the year 72 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: in midweek. It was just sort of shut down. So 73 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, my buddy Scotty came over. As you know, 74 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: I'm telling everyone else, but my buddy Scotty came over 75 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: and met me in Melbourne. So we felt like we 76 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: kept joking that we had rented the Mornington Peninsula because 77 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: there were never more than two people anywhere we went. 78 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: That's really And I'll bet the wine tastings they had 79 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: a heavy hand. Yeah. They basically was just like, let's 80 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: go sit on the porch, Fellas. They brought the bottle 81 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: out and we just sat around and drink with the 82 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: loveliest people on the face of the earth. Yeah, they 83 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: are some really lovely people. And not just in I'll 84 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: tell you. We did New Zealand too, which sure he knew. 85 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: You mean, I've been to New Zealand before, so I 86 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: already had a pretty good idea of just how awesome 87 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: New Zealanders are. And we says they call themselves sometimes, um, 88 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: but I mean you got to experience the firsthand too. Yeah. 89 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: I mean everyone is just so nice and accommodating. Like 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: the whole no worries thing is it's not just something 91 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: they throw around like you feel it. It's four real. Yeah. Yeah, 92 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: it's pretty cool man to to just experience it is 93 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: is a very cool trip. Yeah, And even flying ten 94 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: times in eleven days, their airports in the t s A. 95 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: And just the way people are it really made it 96 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: pretty pretty great. Like I would have it would have 97 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: been a different experience flying ten times around the United 98 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: States and lemon days, I think like it would have 99 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: been awful, But it was great. We had a wonderful time. 100 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: We're definitely coming back. Uh. We both loved on koalas 101 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: and kangaroos. Yeah, It's like it doesn't get any better 102 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: than that. Oh man. So yeah, you guys will see 103 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: us again sometime in the new future. Will do another 104 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: tour for sure. And I'm now getting up at six 105 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: am tomorrow to watch another AUSI rules football final match. 106 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you got into that, like for real? Huh 107 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: big time. That's cool man, it's great. Why not add 108 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: another sport to the pile. Well, I've lost a bunch 109 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: of sports. Oh yeah, I'm kind of down to NFL 110 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: and college football. No more NBA huh, very little, I see. 111 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: It's very It's tough with the Hawks and I'll watch 112 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of the finals maybe, but and then baseball. 113 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: You know, I follow the Braves a little bit, but 114 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: since they moved to the suburbs, I'm not as pumped. 115 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: It's a little different, isn't it. Yeah, it's just not 116 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: as cool. I'm like you, Okay, well shoot, might as 117 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: well just add another one, Australian rules football. Yeah, well 118 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: cool man. Well, thank you for having us Australia and 119 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: New Zealand. We'll see you guys against you right, yes, 120 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: And what a great segue, because Australia happens to be 121 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: one of the countries in the world as far as 122 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: I know the only country in the world that utilizes 123 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: ranked choice voting. No, there's there's two others. But yeah, 124 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: as far as I know, there's just the three in 125 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: Australia has used at the long What are the other two? 126 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: The other two are Malta in Ireland. Yeah, yeah, I 127 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: mean big countries. Okay, no disrespect to Ireland. Australia is 128 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: the only country that's also a continent that uses ranked 129 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: choice correcting. So um and yeah, like I said, they've 130 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: been using it from what I saw at least a century. 131 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: I couldn't find exactly when they started using it, but 132 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: I believe it's tied to Robert's Rules of Order, which 133 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: is a you know, a book of rules for order 134 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: that you can use if you're you know, voting on stuff, 135 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: or you have some sort of parliament or whatever you're 136 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: trying to do. It's the preferred way of voting, this 137 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: ranked choice voting. Right. Oh, they've been doing it for 138 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: that long yeah. Century. Oh I thought it would just 139 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: for the past five years. No, No, that's it's actually 140 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: it's coming around in the US again, even though it 141 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: was around before about a century ago. But in Australia 142 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: it's stuck for the last hundred or so years. Interesting, 143 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: I wonder I read a big article that felt like 144 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: they they felt a need to explain to people how 145 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: to do it five years ago. So maybe they forgot. 146 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: Oh really, you're freaking me out now. But here in 147 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: America we are not quite on board. So no, let 148 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: me give you a Let's let me give you a 149 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: little intro here, Charles. You're ready, yes, okay. So um, 150 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: back in the two thousand election, it was the presidential election. 151 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: It was a squeaker, you might say, between George W. 152 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: Bush and Al Gore. Yeah, apparently the the state of Florida. 153 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: So everyone knows about the electoral college. And if you 154 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: don't go listen to our episode about the electoral college. 155 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: But you can win in the United States the popular vote, 156 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: meaning you got you got more people voted for you 157 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: than your opponent. But if your opponent wins some very 158 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: strategic states, states that have more electoral college votes, they 159 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: can actually win the presidency without winning the popular vote. 160 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: It happened in two thousand and sixteen, happened in the 161 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: two thousand election, and every time time it does happen, 162 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: everybody just gets up in arms. And in my opinion, 163 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: rightfully so, because the will of the people has not 164 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: been served right like clearly the majority of people voted 165 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: for somebody else who is not the winner, and it 166 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: just really ticks everybody off in this country when that happens. 167 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: And in two thousand, it was so close that the 168 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court had to decide who was president and it 169 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: all came down to Florida. Florida had a lot of 170 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: electoral College votes and Bush and Gore were neck and neck, 171 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: although Gore ended up winning the presidency as far as 172 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: popular voting went, Bush one because in Florida it came 173 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: down to he won forty eight point eight four seven 174 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: percent of the vote and al Gore won forty eight 175 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: point eight three eight percent of the vote. Okay, so 176 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: point zero zero nine percent of the vote made the 177 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: difference in the state of Florida, and with the electoral college, 178 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: if you win that state, you get all the electoral votes, 179 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: which pushed Bush over the edge and made him president. Right, 180 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: And a lot of people pointed to Ralph Nader, who, 181 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: as we all know and love from the Pinto's episode, 182 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: is a like a crusader for people, just a great guy. 183 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: But for since two thousand, a lot of people have 184 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: hated Ralph Nader because they said that he handed the 185 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,599 Speaker 1: presidency to George W. Bush by acting as a spoiler. 186 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: That's something like ninety thousand people voted for Ralph Nader 187 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: in the two thousand election, sorry, almost nine thousand, and 188 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: since it was that close in Florida, those thousand votes 189 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: in Florida for Nader pushed Bush into the lead. Well, 190 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: that's just totally unfair because it turns out actually like 191 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: three and eight thousand registered Democrats actually voted for Bush. 192 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: So you could say that actually the Democratic Party didn't 193 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: run a very good campaign in Florida if that was 194 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: the case. But for ever, Ralph Naders born the brun 195 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: of everyone's hire because of this and the same we 196 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: see this in election after election after election, people calling 197 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: out people of similar views for voting for a third 198 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: party candidate, saying that they split the vote and and 199 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: handed them the office over to the their shared enemy. Right. 200 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: And one way to solve this problem, the spoiler um, 201 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: is by fixing what we call this plurality voting system 202 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: which we have, which is if you get more votes 203 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: than your opponent, even if it's not the majority of votes, 204 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: you still win. It's called winners winner takes all elections, 205 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: and that's what we have right now, and it's actually 206 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: creating a lot of polarity and polarization in the United States. 207 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: That was impressive. Well thanks, Uh yeah, man, I mean 208 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: it's basically what you have is, at least in the 209 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: United States, is a situation where if you vote for 210 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: your favorite candidate, you can actually hand the election to 211 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: your least favorite candidate. And that's you know, like with 212 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: the Bernie your Busters in the last election, that's kind 213 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: of what happened that people that voted with their heart 214 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: that were like, I can't vote for Hillary Clinton, or 215 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to vote for Hillary Clinton on gott 216 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: to vote for Bernie. Uh. Very clearly that's that you know, 217 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: that does swing an election. People should vote who they 218 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: want to vote for. Uh, but there is potentially a 219 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: better way. Uh. And we're talking about what Australia does 220 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: ranked choice voting, what some cities in the United States 221 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: do UM on small local elections. It's sort of seeing 222 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: a test run UM all around the country and little 223 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: markets to see what people think. UM. Sometimes people are 224 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: voting on whether or not they should try. Uh. This 225 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: style of voting. Sometimes that passes and then they actually 226 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: vote on candidates. But what ranked choice voting is is 227 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: when you fill out a you don't just say I 228 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: want to vote for this person. You say I want 229 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: to vote for this person, and then you know my 230 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: second choice would be this person, and my third choice 231 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: would be this person. Sometimes it stops there at three. 232 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's capped, but sometimes you just rank all the 233 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: candidates in order of how much you want them in office. Right, so, um, 234 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: the whole point of ranking them is not just for 235 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: the satisfaction of putting the person you like the least 236 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: dead last right, maybe filling in the name or the 237 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: little bubble next to their name with a skull and crossbones. 238 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: The point is it comes after the ballots are tallied. 239 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: If Chuck, everybody um voted for one single person, a 240 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: majority of people voted for one single person in the 241 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: first count, that person won if they had a majority 242 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: of the vote, say plus one single vote. Right, yes, 243 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: it's done. It's just like a normal election under that, 244 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: under that um that circumstance. But let's say one of 245 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: the candidates didn't get a majority of the vote. This 246 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: is when ranked choice voting really kicks in. And this 247 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: is another reason why it's also called an instant runoff vote, 248 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: because what happens is an instant runoff election from those ballots. 249 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: And I think we should take a break. Oh you 250 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: tail this, that's a cliffhanger. Yeah, right after this. Well, 251 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: now we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want 252 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: to learn a thing or two from Josh damp chuck 253 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: it stuff you should know? All right, all right, everybody, 254 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: If you remember we were talking about don't ranked choice voting, 255 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: You list out your candidates in order preference, and then 256 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: after you hand your ballot in, they just kind of 257 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: work from the bottom up almost and start striking people 258 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: out until they get to someone that has a majority. Yeah, 259 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: And it's really that simple. It really is like if 260 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: you if you think too hard on it, you can overcomplicated. 261 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: It's actually pretty easy. And if like what we're going 262 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: to explain doesn't quite make sense, go onto the web 263 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: and watch there's a couple of minute and a half 264 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: long videos that do a really good job of explaining 265 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: and using visuals. I think once by k q E 266 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: d out in San Francisco and others by Minnesota Public 267 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: Radio and both Minneapolis and San Francisco use ranked choice voting. Um, 268 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: so go watch those videos and you will totally get it. 269 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: But again, if you have a let's say you have 270 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: candidate A, B, C, and D, and you cast your 271 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: ballot and you like you like them in that order, 272 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: Canada as your top choice candidate beats your second choice 273 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: candidate SEES three and D is fourth. Right, Okay, easy enough, 274 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: so far right, Chuck, Yes, okay. So um, let's say 275 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: that after all the tallies are are are all the 276 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: ballots are tallied, your guy Canada Day just didn't make 277 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: the cut. He he came in dead last. Your your 278 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: ballot doesn't get thrown away, It gets set to the 279 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: side because whatever all the people who voted for Canada 280 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: A chose for a second, those votes get distributed to 281 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: those candidates in this next round. Yeah, exactly, And that 282 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: is how you end up with a majority. So you 283 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: you what you won't wind up is a situation like 284 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: you had with the current governor of Maine where he 285 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: won the election with thirty eight percent of the vote, 286 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: And like, there's something wrong with your voting system if 287 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: only thirty eight percent of the people in a in 288 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: a in a voting pool like this candidate enough and 289 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: they end up winning. Yeah, I mean, that's that's that's 290 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: the big problem that everybody points to with our current 291 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: plurality system is you could if there's three candidates, you 292 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: can win with thirty percent of the vote, which means 293 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: sixty six percent of the people who voted didn't vote 294 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: for you. They voted for somebody other than you. And 295 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: the other part of the thing that I've seen from 296 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: research in this, Chuck is that when when it's a 297 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: winner takes takes all kind of election, like a plurality 298 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: election like we have, that seems to um incentivize incentivized 299 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: candidates to be more polarizing because what they're trying to 300 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: do is energize their base and get their base out, 301 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: but they have no incentive whatsoever to reach out across 302 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: the aisle to other voters. Um, all they're doing is 303 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: getting their base charged up to get out and vote 304 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: frequently about issues that don't really mean anything. They're just 305 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: kind of like, um, I'm not quite sure what the 306 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: term is for him, but nonsensical issues that don't really 307 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: mean anything. They just tick everybody off. That kind of 308 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: polarization comes from this plurality thing and one of the 309 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: ways that UM or one of the reasons so many 310 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: people are pointing to rank choice voting as a as 311 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: a UM as a kind of a way to solve 312 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: this is because it does the opposite. It incentivizes people 313 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: to reach out to as many voters as possible because 314 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: you want to end up as their number two choice. Yeah. 315 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's an interesting argument. Um In theory, it 316 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 1: would push politicians towards the center. Uh. However, a lot 317 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: of people don't want centrist politicians, and you know, as 318 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: we've seen in recent years, people there are a lot 319 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: of people that are very hard right and very hard 320 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: left that I imagine would reject this kind of voting 321 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: because they don't want to go towards the center. Um. 322 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: Although right now, you know, independence are largely ignored, third 323 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: party candidates are largely ignored, so they would probably embrace 324 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: something like this. Uh. But again, I mean, we had 325 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: a situation in Kansas where the gubernatorial primary was decided 326 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: by less than two hundred votes, So that meant that 327 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: fifty votes basically didn't count. I mean, they counted, and 328 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: that people got to to speak their mind and vote 329 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: their conscience, But fifty two those fifty people, if you 330 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: pulled them, they would probably say, well, you know what, 331 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: I might like a second chance to vote then on 332 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: these two jerks. That was decided by lesson two votes, 333 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: right right. And that's where ranked choice voting comes in, 334 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: because if you, if you you know, vote your conscience, 335 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: which I think it sounds like both of us agree, 336 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: you totally should. And I think even further, you should 337 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: not deride people who vote their conscience. It's a pretty 338 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: terrible thing to do. Um. But if if you share 339 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: similar views um with another candidate, they might be your 340 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: second choice. You might not like them, maybe they're the 341 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: establishment candidate and you're more like the uh, the more 342 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: progressive or more far right candidate. You like that person first, 343 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: but you're also saying, you know, this person might have 344 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: a better shot, so I'm gonn to make sure that 345 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,479 Speaker 1: they're my number two rather than the other person. And 346 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: so what you're doing then is, rather than the vote 347 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: being split like in a winner takes all, if if 348 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: your person, your third party candidate doesn't win that first round, um, 349 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: the your votes are going to go to that other 350 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: more like minded person. So rather than splitting the vote, 351 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: you're actually going and helping UH to bowl straight if 352 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: your candidate of choice doesn't make it to the second round. Right, Obviously, 353 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: you need at least three candidates for something like this 354 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: to happen, which doesn't always happen, so you can't always 355 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: use this this kind of voting. UH. And Maine, the 356 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: state of Maine is an interesting well, it's interesting in 357 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: a lot of ways because manners are weird and they 358 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: know that. Um, they're very independent and just sort of 359 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 1: a state into themselves in a lot of ways. So 360 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: what you've had here, nine of the past eleven governors 361 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: have been elected with less than fifty of the vote. 362 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: Nine of the past eleven, which is amazing, five of 363 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: those with less and as I mentioned earlier, the current governor, 364 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: Paul Lapage or la Page UH, he won with thirty 365 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: eight percent, and as of hours ago, as as of 366 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: this recording, he just vetoed a bill for this kind 367 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: of voting to continue on his way out the door. Basically, 368 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: I saw that there was like there's been a real 369 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: push in Maine against this too, and there's a lot 370 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: of allegations that it's basically the status quo is worried 371 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: that they're not going to be able to get enough 372 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: centrist people to vote for them, and so they're gonna 373 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: start losing elections rather than these winner polarized winner takes 374 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: all um contests that they can win by energizing the 375 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: base into a frenzy. So pushed by politicians, I guess right, 376 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: pushed by incumbent politicians. No less, Yeah, because the people 377 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: voted for it. They had a record turnout, apparently, because 378 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: one of the worries is is that more complicated voting 379 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: in theory leads to uh, people being less interested in voting, 380 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: like this sort of sadly American thing where you have 381 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: to make voting super easy and super dumb uh or 382 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: dumbed down at least, and if it's just confusing, people 383 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: want to understand it and they won't know what to do, 384 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: so they may not even vote. But at least in 385 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: Maine they had a record turnout, and a lot of 386 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: people think it was because they moved to rank choice voting. 387 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: And I saw also a two thousand and fourteen study 388 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: from the University of Missouri that um they looked at 389 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: like seventies six elections or seventy nine elections in twenty 390 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: six cities that used ranked choice voting, and they found 391 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: that overall there was like a ten percent higher turnout 392 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: than in elections that hadn't used ranked choice voting UM, 393 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: and that that definitely flies in the face of one 394 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: of the great criticisms of ranked choice voting that it's 395 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: way more difficult than regular voting. Like you were saying, right, 396 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: The thing is is it's not that much more difficult. 397 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: It's really pretty easy and the average person can figure 398 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: it out. What I think it calls for more though 399 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: Chuck is a more informed voter, you know what I mean. Like, 400 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: you can't just scantron it. You can't just make a 401 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: Christmas tree out of it and expect any kind of 402 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: good result, rather than just knowing about your one candidate 403 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: and that, yes, I like this person. They most aligned 404 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: with my view, so I'm going to vote for them, 405 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: and I don't need to know anything about the other 406 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: people except I don't want to vote for him. It 407 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: means that you need to know something about all of 408 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: the candidates because you've got to figure out who's second 409 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: and who's third, and who's fourth and who's fifth, um. 410 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: And to do that you have to be an informed voter. 411 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: Maybe they should in the States do it with pictures 412 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: as a who's hot and who's not, or who were best, 413 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: who were best in in terms of ranking, just so 414 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: we can understand it. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a 415 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: there has to be as as far as ranked choice 416 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: voting goes, there has to be a a UM, real understandable, 417 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: really robust public education campaign that goes along with it. 418 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: UM or else it's not gonna get anywhere, I don't think. 419 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: But I think so far in like Maine, which I 420 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: think you said already is the first state to ever 421 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: uses in statewide elections in the US. Right, Yeah, they 422 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: hand count there too, they do, but this article what 423 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of worried about that? It's like, well, how long 424 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: is this going to take if they're hand counting? Well 425 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: if if if under the first count like they normally do, 426 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: there isn't a clear winner, a majority winner. All those 427 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: battlets gets sent to the capital, which which I think 428 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: UM uses software from that point on. So it's not 429 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: that big of a deal as far as Maine goes. Yeah, 430 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: and I read, uh the governor remains UM. The reason 431 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: why he vetoed it, he wrote like a op ed 432 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: or whatever, made a statement and he he had a 433 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: couple of reasons. One was financial, because they came back 434 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: and said it would cost an extra three thirty thousand 435 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: dollars or something, and he said, you know, they're sticking 436 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 1: it to you. They're sticking to you the taxpayer, with 437 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: more money for this election, which I don't know if 438 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: I haven't done the math, I can't imagine that would 439 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: amount to very much money per person, like per voter. Uh. 440 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: And he also said that it was it was sort 441 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: of voted on and run through in the middle of 442 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: the night. Uh. One of those type of deals where 443 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: you know a lot of people weren't there, It wasn't debated, 444 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: it was voted on in less than five minutes at 445 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, late at night, and that kind of thing, 446 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: that kind of sneaky politics. So that's that's what that 447 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: was his contention. Although I imagine if the people have 448 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: Maine voted for it to begin with, then uh. I 449 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: mean from everything I've read, it sounds like he was 450 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: just sort of like on the way out the door, 451 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: given everybody the finger. Yeah, that's that's what every That's 452 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: what I've read too. That's that's kind of my interpretation. 453 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: I want to hear from people the people of Maine 454 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: though about this. Well, the people of Maine have already 455 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: spoken on. On I think June eighteenth, they using the 456 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: ranked system for the first time. The first question on 457 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: the ballot was do you want to keep using ranked voting? 458 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: And it was um. It was passed with like a vote, 459 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: So clearly a majority of people in Maine at least say, yep, 460 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: let's give this a shot. Was that ranked choice? Was it? Yes? 461 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: I used ranked choice? Right, right? And then maybe but 462 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: only if this and well, I guess if they don't 463 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: do this, and we should do this, right, so maybe 464 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: let's take a break, talk about some history. Let's well, 465 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: now we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want 466 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: to learn a thing or two from Josh? Can chuck 467 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: stuff you should know? All right? All right, Chuck? So 468 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: ranked choice, like we said, it's been around for a 469 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: little while in the US took a stab at it before. Um, 470 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: I think back in the nineteen thirties in New York, right, yeah, 471 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: I mean the Brits used to do it in the 472 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, and then America tried it in New York. 473 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: Of course, and if this weird thing hadn't happened, it 474 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: may still be around today. You never know. But in 475 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: a nineteen thirty seven city council election, a communist actually 476 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: want a seat because of rank choice voting, and that 477 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: changed everything. And I think if it hadn't been for that, 478 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: it might have actually caught on. Yeah, because I think 479 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: a decade later they used the um the red scare 480 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: to basically say, look, you can't have ranked choice voting. 481 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: It gets communists in power, you crazy, And everybody said, oh, okay, 482 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: let's get away with rank let's do away with ranked 483 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: choice voting. And they did. But as in this case, 484 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: as in all the other cases where ranked choice voting 485 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: has been tried out and then left behind later on, 486 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: it's been tied to some other issue, it doesn't seem 487 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: like ranked choice voting itself is the problem. It's the 488 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: the establishment who's threatened by ranked choice voting tends to 489 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: tie it to an unpopular political thing, and then UM 490 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: gets rid of it that way, like in Burlington, Vermont 491 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: back and I think the mid two thousand's they tried 492 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: ranked choice voting and this mayor that got elected was 493 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: a super progressive UM who upset I think a Republican incumbent, 494 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: and the progressive was doing fine, everybody's happy with him. 495 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: But then he got embroiled in a scandal where apparently 496 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: he used public funds to keep a telecom company in business. 497 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: That did not make the people of Burlington, Vermont very happy. 498 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: So he he became a very unpopular mayor, like almost overnight, 499 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: while he had been elected through ranked choice voting. So 500 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: the republic Kins the next time around said, look what 501 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: ranked choice voting did? It got this, this scandal plagued 502 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: mayor in office. Let's get rid of ranked choice voting. 503 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: And people voted voted against ranked choice voting, and it 504 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: was a very close vote, and it was mostly Republicans 505 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: who voted against it, but more of them turned out 506 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: to vote against ranked choice voting, so it went away. 507 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: Same thing with the communists in New York. The Democrats 508 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: did that. They said, look, it elected a Communist to 509 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: the New York City Council. Let's get away. Let's do 510 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: away ranked choice voting. Same thing. So it's not like 511 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: the ranked choice voting there's anything wrong with it, and 512 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: there may be a lot right with it. It's just 513 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: that it gets tied to political scandals pretty frequently. To 514 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: get rid of it, I think it's it's because it's 515 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: a new thing. People are like, oh, yeah, that was weird. 516 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: That was weird. Let's go back to the old way, 517 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: even though the old way is broken. Yeah. Oakland, California 518 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: is a pretty interesting situation too in two thousand ten, 519 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: because people could make arguments I guess on either side here. Uh. 520 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: In two thousand ten, for its mayoral election, there were 521 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: ten candidates on the ballots. You gotta rank all ten, um, 522 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: And I didn't see anything about like, is a ballot 523 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: counted if you only rank like four. Oh, that's a 524 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: really good point. I wonder if that's an incomplete ballot. 525 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: It is. And all that's counted though, is your first vote. 526 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: So in the first round of voting, your ballot counts 527 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: whether you rank one person or four or three. However, 528 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: if you don't fill it out and you just fill 529 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: out one, it gets counted once. So you could write 530 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: nine out of ten and it only counts the first 531 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: from what I understand. Yes, interesting, alright, So in Oakland 532 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: and there were ten candidates, Uh, there was a front 533 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: runner named Don Parata. He got thirty of what they 534 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: called the first choice vote, which is, you know, obviously 535 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: pretty low for first choice did not win, and then 536 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: Jane Kuan she finished pretty far behind. She only got 537 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: of the first preference, but she ended up winning with 538 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: fifty to Paradas forty eight percent after they rolled all 539 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: those other votes up. Yes, because she had gone to 540 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: the other candidates who were long shots and said, hey, 541 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: let's let's form an alliance here. Let's let's try to 542 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: like get as many voters as possible to vote for us. 543 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that ranked choice voting does, Chuck, 544 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: is it incentivizes you to appeal to as many voters 545 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: as possible rather than alienating another candidates voters and just 546 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: appealing to your own base. You want those second choice 547 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: votes too, because they count in later rounds, and that 548 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: means that you have to say, hey, I know I'm 549 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: not your first choice. I'm I might even be from 550 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: a different party than the one you're planning to vote for, 551 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: but let me tell you about some of the things 552 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: that we have in common that might change your opinion 553 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: of me, which means that there's probably going to be 554 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: less negative ads, less negative campaigns, and in some some 555 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: um cases, I think for the main Attorney General's office, 556 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: some candidates have them together to um to basically run 557 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: ads like joint campaign ads saying hey, everybody, I know 558 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: you're playing in the vote for me, but maybe put 559 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: this person is number two and the other person says 560 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: the same thing. And in doing so, what you're doing 561 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: is is is rather than splitting the vote, you're consolidating 562 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: what would have been previously split votes into something that 563 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: could actually lift one or the other to to office. Yeah. 564 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: And I mean as far as appealing to the center 565 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: one of the people want that, that's that's got to 566 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: be better than what we have now, which is people 567 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: digging in so far and so hard to the left 568 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: and the right that they're basically they might as well 569 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: just come out and say screw you of the country. 570 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: And that's that's a broken system. Uh. And there are 571 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people, including uh Bloomberg View columnists Leonid 572 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: Breschitzky speaking of communists. I'm just kidding, Leonid. I'm sure 573 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: you're a fine American. Uh. He you know, he basically 574 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: came out and wrote an article that said, if we 575 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: had gone with this type of thing, Donald Trump would 576 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: not not only would he not be president, he would 577 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: not have even won the primary because there were so 578 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: many sort of establishment traditional conservatives that would never have 579 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: voted for Donald Trump, and may have even set out 580 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: the election that would have written in like maybe John 581 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: casag first, then Jeb Bush second, and then who knows third. 582 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: I can't I can't imagine who they would have picked third, 583 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: But they probably would have put Donald Trump dead last. 584 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: So he would have never rolled up in the primaries 585 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: even right. And so the reason why people would have 586 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: put Trump dead last in this case is because he 587 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: was so he was so far away from the clump 588 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: of the other guys who were a little more towards 589 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: the middle, and just by day of their being more 590 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: of these guys more towards the middle, that means that 591 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: there are more voters voting for those people, and so 592 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: Trump would have been left out and somebody like Jeff 593 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: Bush or somebody who was a centrist would have been 594 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: more likely to to reach the primary. And that's the point. 595 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: Because more people tend to aggregate towards the center than 596 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: towards the fringes. Ranked choice voting serves the center a 597 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: lot more clearly than it does the fringes, and it 598 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: it drags the fringe candidates toward the center more and 599 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: and and get it does away with the polarization that 600 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: creates the fringe candidates in the first place. Yeah, and 601 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: I guess we should point out that center center of 602 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: your own party more like, I don't know, man, I 603 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: think center. The thing about the center of the own 604 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: party is that the difference between the two is not 605 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: as pronounced and so like there's a lot more reaching 606 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: across the aisles, which I think is why a lot 607 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: of people value you know, centrist Paul. It takes a 608 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: lot more is there's a lot more compromise that comes 609 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: out of it rather than gridlock. Yeah, I mean, I 610 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: guess in theory center right and center left is more 611 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: towards the overall center. But when I hear things like 612 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz is more centrist, I mean, it depends on 613 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: who you compare him to. I guess exactly he's he's 614 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: a little more central compared to Donald Trump, maybe on 615 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: the Republican side, but I don't think any Democrat would 616 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: identify with him. Sure, agreed, So I think you could 617 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: make a case that ranked choice voting would probably keep 618 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: somebody like Ted Cruz from being president one day too, 619 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, maybe, So who knows what I'm interested in. 620 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: Is the money, like one of the things that Governor 621 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: la Page or Lapage, do you know what's one it is? No, 622 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: I don't, or however you pronounce that in Maine. Let's 623 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: go with Lapage. It sounds fancy. Yeah. So Lapage talked 624 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: about the money, and that is one of the things 625 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: that critics bring up is it will cost a lot 626 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: of money. But I'd be curious just to see dollars 627 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: lines on runoff elections and what they cost um. I saw, Well, 628 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: that's the other thing too, because this would eliminate those 629 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: it would right now, from what I saw, there's twelve 630 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: states that have run off rules. The rest of the 631 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: states don't. It's all winner takes all. But the only 632 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: the states that do have runoff rules, that's only in 633 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: the primaries. Interesting. Yeah, so in a federal election, uh, 634 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: ranked choice voting UM or a general election, it's going 635 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: to cost more just because it's it's a little more expensive. 636 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: But what I saw was that cost Maine. There's a 637 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: Boston Globe editorial by the editors of the Boston Globe 638 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: that said, let's do this in Massachusetts. They said it 639 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: was just like a hundred and ten thousand dollars more 640 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: for the entire state of Maine to run this UM 641 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: this election over ones that didn't have ranked choice that 642 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: used plurality voting. Yeah, that's like fractions of a penny 643 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: per voter, probably right, I should say. Also, since talking 644 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: about bringing it to Massachusetts, UM, I thought of doing 645 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: this episode because remember our friend Dave who used to 646 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: work at Sweetwater Dave Morrell. Oh yeah, he is running 647 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: for the UM I think District five House for the 648 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: New Hampshire House District four New Hampshire House. He's got 649 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: my vote. He the same here. Unfortunately we can't vote 650 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: for him, but UM Dave was saying one of his 651 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: platform planks is bringing rank choice voting to New Hampshire. Interesting. Yeah, 652 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm happy to be your number three. 653 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: I think he wants to be your number one. Well, 654 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: another criticism that this one is the one that gets me, 655 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: Like everything else sounds pretty good, but uh, a lot 656 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: of these cities limit, like I said earlier at the 657 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: very beginning, to the top three candidates. So there's something 658 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: called ballot exhaustion. If all three of your candidates on 659 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: your list are eliminated, then your ballot is basically just burned. 660 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: In fact, I think they burn it. They hold it 661 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: up and they burn it in front of your face, 662 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: like Tony Collette and hereditary and then laugh at you. 663 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: So you would think this probably didn't happen much though, 664 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: But there was a study in electoral electoral studies in 665 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,959 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen set in four cities, between nine point 666 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: six point seven percent of voters were eliminated due to 667 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: ballot exhaustion, which those numbers are super high, they are 668 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: very high. Well, one way to get around that is 669 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: to um not just rank your top three, but to 670 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: rank every single person. I wonder why they did that though, 671 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: maybe to make it easier. I'm not sure, but the 672 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: San Francisco just ranks the top three for their mayor 673 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: mayoral races, which is kind of I don't know about that, 674 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: because they frequently have like ten people in there in 675 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: the race, like you were saying, so just to rank 676 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: the top three that will lead to a lot of 677 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: ballot exhaustion, which is a real problem. But again, if 678 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: people just rank all the candidates, their ballot will keep 679 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: getting getting counted round after round, because after your first 680 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: two were eliminated in three and then four, those your 681 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: vote for that rank keeps getting added depending on the 682 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: round that you're on. It's pretty pretty interesting stuff. Man, 683 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. You think it'll catch on here? It 684 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: has piqued my interest. Same here. I think anything that 685 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: does away with um with um polarization and does away 686 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: with people who share pretty similar views. But anything that 687 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,760 Speaker 1: does away with that, I'm I'm in favor of trying 688 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: for sure. Agreed. Well, if you want to know more 689 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: about ranked choice voting, go check it out some of 690 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: those videos on the web, and um, you're probably going 691 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: to learn to like it. But whatever, make up your 692 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: own mind. And since I said that, it's time for 693 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: listener mail. All right, this is a bit long, but 694 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: it's a good one. This is from an actual recently 695 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: retired New York City detective. Hi, guys, love the show. 696 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: I was a NYPD detective for twenty years and just retired, 697 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: And I'm glad to say you guys remotely spot on 698 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: with the lineups episode. And then he gives us some 699 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,439 Speaker 1: really interesting tidbits here. I can't wait. He says, double 700 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: blind lineups are better, but they are a huge suck 701 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: on resources. You have to transport a witness or witnesses 702 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: who also need to be separated fillers the suspect who 703 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: requires two detectives to safely transport from one site to 704 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 1: the next. And now you have to find another detective 705 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: who who knows nothing about your case, So that usually 706 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: means to go to an outside detective squad, who themselves 707 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: have their own cases for which they may need blind administrators. 708 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: So you can see how this ripples outward. Photo arrays 709 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: would be helpful in terms of logistics, but they are 710 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: inadmissible as trial evidence in New York. You can only 711 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: be used to identify a possible suspect, but in order 712 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,240 Speaker 1: to bring charges you have to conduct a live lineup. Additionally, 713 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: many victims feel more confident looking at real people than 714 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: it photos. UH defense lawyers will claim they want to 715 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: be present for the lineup to verify it's impartiality, but 716 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: do not actually want to be there and in fact 717 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: rarely are UH. If they're not present, they can then 718 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: accuse officers of all kinds of misdeeds and an effort 719 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: to have the identification suppressed at hearing. If they are 720 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: present and observe nothing untoward during the procedure, it becomes 721 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: more difficult for them to later claim otherwise super interesting. Uh. Lastly, 722 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: I spent the last four years of my career in 723 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: a robbery unit that worked with federal prosecutors. We begged 724 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: squad detectives not to show photo arrays or conduct lineups. 725 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: As we know what Josh said. Many times, it's true. 726 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: Witness testimony more often than not as terrible. We build 727 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: most of our cases using co conspirator testimony, perpetrator statements, UH, 728 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: DNA criminalistics, so, social media analysis, cell phone tracking, security video, 729 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: license plate reader data, etcetera, etcetera. Uh, witnesses really just 730 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: muddy the waters. Uh. They're best used to say, hey 731 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: I got robbed and then just leave it at that. 732 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: It also takes the emotional burden off them at trial 733 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: should it ever come to that. Yeah, my wife and 734 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 1: are big fans kept us entertained on many road trips. 735 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: Thanks guys, have a great day. And that is from 736 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: former detective Jason Allison. That is an amazing email. Man. 737 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: I'll bet social media is a huge tool because I'll 738 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: bet there's so many goons just run around like I 739 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 1: totally just robbed this place. Check it out here, here's 740 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: the money. I guys, speaking of huge tools, yeah, uh, 741 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: good one, Chuck. Well, if you want to get in 742 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: touch with us like the former detective did, that's pretty awesome. 743 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,800 Speaker 1: We always want to hear from experts in the field 744 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: that we talked about. You can get in touch with 745 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: us via social media. Just go to our website, Stuff 746 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com and it's got all of 747 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: our links up there um. Or you can send us 748 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: an email. Just send it to Stuff podcast at how 749 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands 750 00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.