Speaker 1: Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the
Speaker 1: podcast that looks at the future and says, I wear
Speaker 1: my sunglasses at night so I can so I can
Speaker 1: forget my name while you collect your claim. I'm Jonathan
Speaker 1: Strickland and I'm Joe McCormick. And you know, if I
Speaker 1: had had my pick on how to begin this podcast,
Speaker 1: I would have said, we are the hollow men. We
Speaker 1: are the stuffed men leaning together headpiece filled with three
Speaker 1: D straw. Yeah, alas I was about to say, now, Joe,
Speaker 1: you usually complain if I go beyond one line on
Speaker 1: a song like but I was going to say, yes, truly,
Speaker 1: we could be talking about hollow since we're talking about
Speaker 1: the hollow lens today. All due to the request from
Speaker 1: one of our wonderful listeners, right Andrew on Facebook. That's right,
Speaker 1: So Andrew posted I Believe on our Facebook wall and
Speaker 1: said to us, Hi, guys, I just want to say
Speaker 1: I love your audio podcast. I listened to them on
Speaker 1: the way to work. On the way to work and
Speaker 1: and from work is often where I listen to podcasts too.
Speaker 1: But anyways, Andrew continues Anyways, I'm not sure if you
Speaker 1: do request, but I think this would be a cool
Speaker 1: topic to talk about. And then he links to a
Speaker 1: Wired article about the Microsoft Hollo lens. He says, or
Speaker 1: he continues, it is Microsoft's new holographic goggles. I think
Speaker 1: it would be a sweet topic if you talked about
Speaker 1: the tech in future of holograms with these and other devices,
Speaker 1: and also how these types of devices might affect our
Speaker 1: day to day life. Again, love the podcast and let
Speaker 1: me know what you think. Well, Andrew, thank you for
Speaker 1: the flattery, but also thank you for the great idea.
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought to talk about this on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I um, I actually missed out on the official announcement.
Speaker 1: It was one of the few times where I was
Speaker 1: not following a live event, you know, bit by bit,
Speaker 1: and only heard about it after the fact, and then
Speaker 1: I heard everyone talking about it. Well, I mean, the
Speaker 1: thing is is that the live event in question was
Speaker 1: about Windows ten, which is less tantalizing than a holographic headset. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I just essentially thought it was going to be
Speaker 1: the same thing as Windows eight, just with two more
Speaker 1: two more windows copies of the icon actual physical windows
Speaker 1: like in the building that they were going to. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well I like windows. I do. I mean, we have
Speaker 1: plenty of them in our new office. We do. If
Speaker 1: we sound entirely strange to you right now, it's because
Speaker 1: we're in a whole new recording studio. Also, we all
Speaker 1: are a little strange. Yeah. Well, the new studio smells
Speaker 1: kind of like freshly cut wood and still pickle chips. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole office does have that fancy new office smell
Speaker 1: that makes you think that you're inhaling cancer right there.
Speaker 1: To be fair, the building we're in is an ancient building,
Speaker 1: so the rest of the building has that ancient building smell. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that good like avatoire kind of look. Well, let's
Speaker 1: just let's say that you working in let's say a
Speaker 1: space that's less interesting than our office. Like our office
Speaker 1: is pretty darn cool to be, to be perfectly honest,
Speaker 1: But let's say you're working in kind of a more
Speaker 1: drab office environment and you have to get work done.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be interesting if you could augment that work,
Speaker 1: if you could end up using your physical environment and
Speaker 1: augment that through technology, creating these digital overlays of stuff
Speaker 1: so that your work now is not just more interesting.
Speaker 1: It becomes more intuitive, and you suddenly have new ways
Speaker 1: to manipulate the work that you previously would just be
Speaker 1: using keyboard and mouse to to, you know, to interact with.
Speaker 1: Why Jonathan, you sound like one of the presenters giving
Speaker 1: the pitch for the Microsoft Hollow Lens. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I am trying to groom myself for such a position. No, dude,
Speaker 1: I hope not. I mean no offense to those people,
Speaker 1: but sure you want to be a little more objective
Speaker 1: and not such a pitchman. That's true. That's true. So
Speaker 1: the hollow lens is a really cool piece of technology.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I am intrigued. I would be lying
Speaker 1: if I said otherwise. However, there are also some elements
Speaker 1: to the hollow lens height machine that we will address
Speaker 1: as we go through this this episode this podcast to
Speaker 1: kind of talk about, you know, what it is, what
Speaker 1: it really does, and whether or not we think it's
Speaker 1: going to be a success. I honestly don't know what
Speaker 1: you two think about that, So that would be really
Speaker 1: fun thing for me to find out. Yeah, well, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: first I want you to soothe me by telling the
Speaker 1: story of the hollow lens. Gather around children here in
Speaker 1: Liza Taled. So when it was being developed, the Hollow
Speaker 1: Lens was called Project Baraboo, not Baba Duke. Not Babba Duke. No,
Speaker 1: but when Baba Duke comes knocking, don't answer the door.
Speaker 1: But Baraboo is totally different. So this is an interesting project.
Speaker 1: It was led by Alex Kipman, who is also the
Speaker 1: same person who had pitched the idea that became the
Speaker 1: connect sensor. Okay, so here here's someone who's interested in
Speaker 1: user interfaces, interactivity, immersion, all of those kind of of
Speaker 1: terms that some people consider buzzwords but really do have meaning.
Speaker 1: You know that these are meaningful words. Sure well, he
Speaker 1: wants to change the ways that we interact with data.
Speaker 1: Sure yeah, Well, when you look at the way that
Speaker 1: we've interacted with data, it has not changed significantly for
Speaker 1: two decades, right, I mean more than that, really, I
Speaker 1: mean once the mouse came on board, essentially when the
Speaker 1: Mac was introduced, it's been pretty much that since then.
Speaker 1: Not only that, but it's something that the people behind
Speaker 1: the Hollow Lens keep pointing out. It's not just that
Speaker 1: you use a mouse and keyboard to do almost everything
Speaker 1: on your computer unless you've got some kind of specialized
Speaker 1: system like a drawing pad or something like you but
Speaker 1: it's that you do all your computing in the exact
Speaker 1: same place. It's right behind this rectangular screen. Sure. And
Speaker 1: it's also interesting that this is another attempt to change
Speaker 1: the way we interact with our machines, similar to how
Speaker 1: Windows eight was trying to get us to go to
Speaker 1: a touch screen interface because tablets were such a big thing.
Speaker 1: But obviously that was not something that got uh universally adopted.
Speaker 1: A lot of people rejected the Windows eight approach. Thus
Speaker 1: Windows tin coming out so quickly. So let's talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more about the HoloLens and and how that
Speaker 1: is trying to become this new method of interacting with
Speaker 1: our data. UH. Before it was unveiled, a few journalists
Speaker 1: were able to get a demo of this product back
Speaker 1: when it was still called Baraboo. It had not been
Speaker 1: officially unveiled and named yet. It wouldn't be until late
Speaker 1: January of this year, two thousand fifteen, when Microsoft held
Speaker 1: an event for Windows ten. Like Lauren was saying, and
Speaker 1: during the event they revealed a couple of other things.
Speaker 1: Because I guess and operating system, you know, that's for
Speaker 1: some people. That's exciting news all on its own, but
Speaker 1: it's not the sexiest thing. It's not the thing that's
Speaker 1: gonna get a lot of people talking, particularly if the
Speaker 1: people feel like that operating system is meant to be
Speaker 1: an answer to a previous perhaps not up to par product,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the same way that Windows seven
Speaker 1: is like, look at all the amazing things here, forget
Speaker 1: about Windows to kind of kind of similar here, Windows
Speaker 1: Tan is Windows Tan, forget about Windows eight and um.
Speaker 1: They also showed off a couple of other things like
Speaker 1: the Microsoft Surface Giant table as well, but the whole
Speaker 1: lens was really what captured a lot of people's attention.
Speaker 1: And it's supposed to allow you to see quote unquote holograms.
Speaker 1: Uh now, really what's happening is there's a projector, really
Speaker 1: to projectors in this pair of glasses ready imaging, not hologram.
Speaker 1: But but that's that's our that's Jonathan and my message
Speaker 1: from Captain Pedantic, right. Yeah, it's what you're seeing are
Speaker 1: the reflections from projectors that are inside the glasses. So
Speaker 1: it's like you're looking at a movie screen, but it's
Speaker 1: a stereoscopic image, so it's like you're looking at a
Speaker 1: three D movie screen, things seem to have depth, they
Speaker 1: seem to have a presence beyond the flat surface of
Speaker 1: the screen, or for example, something out of if you've
Speaker 1: ever demoed the Oculus Rift, yeah, something like that, where
Speaker 1: you have this this illusion of depth, and this illusion
Speaker 1: is very very convincing, and you can have something that
Speaker 1: looks like it's a free standing object made out of light,
Speaker 1: which is what we would tend to think of as
Speaker 1: a hologram at version. Sure, the Princess Leia R two
Speaker 1: D two projections right exactly, the Arnold Schwarzenegger in total recall, right, right,
Speaker 1: And and you can walk around those objects made of
Speaker 1: light as if they are physical, so you can get
Speaker 1: a full view of them if you can, if you
Speaker 1: have clearance to walk around every edge, you will move
Speaker 1: around as if that thing were truly present in the
Speaker 1: space you are in. However, it's not actually there. You know,
Speaker 1: if it were a hologram, then anyone could view it
Speaker 1: in that space without wearing glasses. That's only that's projected
Speaker 1: within the glasses themselves. It's not actually a hologram in
Speaker 1: the same sense as what we tend to think of
Speaker 1: in that in that respect. You don't need glasses to
Speaker 1: see a regular hologram. However, it is a very handy
Speaker 1: way of using it as shorthand, so yes, we'll probably
Speaker 1: use it a lot. We we we kind of. I
Speaker 1: I off offline Joe and I and apparently Joe and
Speaker 1: Jonathan also had very similar conversations today about about that terminology.
Speaker 1: I was confused about what y'all were saying when you said,
Speaker 1: while it's not really a hologram, because I thought you
Speaker 1: meant it's not really a hologram photographs in using the
Speaker 1: lasers to make you know, laser interferometry too. Well, it's
Speaker 1: not that either, which is I think actually in the
Speaker 1: strictest sense, I mean when you say hologram, though that's
Speaker 1: not usually what people think anymore right now, And that's
Speaker 1: that's actually that That's actually my like captain pedantic argument
Speaker 1: here is is that holograms are real things that are
Speaker 1: really cool that exist all around us today. You probably
Speaker 1: have one, like on your credit card. Um It's it's
Speaker 1: an image that is used that is created on um
Speaker 1: specific film using a specific laser process that is actually
Speaker 1: so cool, like so awesome. It's difficult to describe and
Speaker 1: real difficult to describe. We we we actually didn't entire two
Speaker 1: podcasts about what holograms actually are way back in May
Speaker 1: of um, so you guys can go check that out
Speaker 1: if you want to hear the rest of this rant. Um.
Speaker 1: But I you know, it's it's I oh man, I
Speaker 1: just I just really like real holograms, and so I
Speaker 1: get kind of itchy when people called three D imaging holograms.
Speaker 1: But at any rate, it's it's so, it's it's not
Speaker 1: it's not a hologram in that sense, but it's not
Speaker 1: even a hologram in the science fiction sense of a
Speaker 1: free standing digital image that you can see and walk
Speaker 1: around without the use of some other equipment. Everything is
Speaker 1: being projected within the glasses themselves. So if you were
Speaker 1: wearing let's say something like the Oculus Rift that was
Speaker 1: capturing a picture of your environment, so you're looking at
Speaker 1: video of your environment, you wouldn't, you know, because the
Speaker 1: difference between the hollow lens and the Oculus rift, well,
Speaker 1: one of the many differences is that with the hollow lens,
Speaker 1: you are looking through a pair of goggles essentially, and
Speaker 1: you are seeing the physical world around you, whereas with
Speaker 1: the Oculus rift you're looking at screens monitors, so you're
Speaker 1: you know, they're not transparent. But if you were to
Speaker 1: feed video through those screens, so it's the actual physical
Speaker 1: surroundings around you, you could mimic something similar to what
Speaker 1: is happening with the Hollow Lens and it would you know, again,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't call that a hologram because it's just three
Speaker 1: D projection, but it's really cool implementation of three D projections. Yes, UM,
Speaker 1: And we none of us sitting at this table, perhaps
Speaker 1: obviously UM, have have seen the Hollow Lens, or rather
Speaker 1: the developers demo version of the Hollow lens, so it's
Speaker 1: hard for us to say exactly how it winds up
Speaker 1: looking UM, but some people who are on the internet
Speaker 1: have talked about it um after after having received a
Speaker 1: demo after that Microsoft press release, and two of those
Speaker 1: people are Deeter Bon and Tom Warren. For the verge Um.
Speaker 1: They published a piece called up Close with the Hollow Lens,
Speaker 1: and they described a particular demo in which a Minecraft
Speaker 1: castle was laid out on the real coffee table in
Speaker 1: front of them. And I just want to quote them
Speaker 1: really quick, because it's better than anything that we can
Speaker 1: probably say about how these images look right now. So
Speaker 1: they said, it's not shimmery, but it's not quite real either.
Speaker 1: It's just sitting there perfectly out on the table, reacting
Speaker 1: in space to your head movements. It's nearly as lifelike
Speaker 1: as the actual table, and there's no lag at all.
Speaker 1: The castle is there. It's simply magic. Yeah. There was
Speaker 1: also a good ride up of it in Wired by
Speaker 1: Jesse Himpel, and this was actually the one that Andrew
Speaker 1: linked when he asked us to do it, and she
Speaker 1: was also impressed by Like she she seemed to think
Speaker 1: that that it was actually pretty good. It reminds me, actually,
Speaker 1: that description reminds me of when I got the Nintendo
Speaker 1: three DS to play with here in the office, and
Speaker 1: it came with cards that allowed you to use augmented
Speaker 1: reality apps where if you look through the camera of
Speaker 1: the device, you know you're looking at the screen the
Speaker 1: camera's capturing the card that sent a command for it
Speaker 1: to generate a little three dimensional animated figure like pop
Speaker 1: up thing that you would see on the screen that
Speaker 1: was projected or not projected, I suppose, added onto or
Speaker 1: added into the image that you were looking at on
Speaker 1: the screen of your actual desktop. Right, So if I'm
Speaker 1: looking at the screen, and I'm looking at the card
Speaker 1: that's laying on my desk, then suddenly a three dimensional
Speaker 1: image of Mario pops up and starts to prance around,
Speaker 1: and it looks like Mario is standing on my table
Speaker 1: as long as I'm looking through the three DS screen,
Speaker 1: It's like that, except of course, instead of being a
Speaker 1: handheld device, you're wearing this pair of goggles, and it's
Speaker 1: capable of showing you, you know, practically anything on practically
Speaker 1: any surface with the right programming behind it. So it's
Speaker 1: not limited to, uh, you have to have this particular,
Speaker 1: you know, image for us to display something on top
Speaker 1: of it. That's the way a lot of augmented reality works, right.
Speaker 1: You've you've tied an app to a specific image so
Speaker 1: that when you hold up a device like a smartphone,
Speaker 1: it recognizes the image through the camera and thus you
Speaker 1: get the augmented reality effect on top of it. This
Speaker 1: is a little bit more versatile and start to really
Speaker 1: show the potential uses of augmented reality beyond something like
Speaker 1: a clever little marketing. Yeah. Another thing that I thought
Speaker 1: was really interesting about it was the idea of projecting
Speaker 1: media screens within the environment, and in an interesting way,
Speaker 1: this makes goggles like these an alternative to the screens
Speaker 1: everywhere environment that we've started to see lately. You know
Speaker 1: where there's there's a touch screen on your refrigerator, and
Speaker 1: there's a touch screen on all your appliances. Now your
Speaker 1: coffee maker has a screen. You've got a phone in
Speaker 1: your pocket, you're carrying a tablet, um, you've got a
Speaker 1: laptop at your desk. Yeah, you got a thermostat that
Speaker 1: responds to touch. Right. So the alternative here is that
Speaker 1: you don't need screens on any of those things. Potentially
Speaker 1: with glasses like this, if they can project whatever kind
Speaker 1: of interface you need onto these objects. So instead of
Speaker 1: a fridge with a screen, you could perhaps look at
Speaker 1: a fridge and see the interface for your fridge projected
Speaker 1: on it. It's not on the fridge in real life,
Speaker 1: it's just in your goggles, right. And then there's some
Speaker 1: sort of connectivity between the goggles and your other devices
Speaker 1: so that you can make adjustments, change things. You can
Speaker 1: even have it where you call up the interface when
Speaker 1: you're nowhere near the object in question. Let's say that
Speaker 1: you're working in your home office and you think the
Speaker 1: temperature is a little warm, and you want to adjust
Speaker 1: the climate. You pull up the climate controls in your view,
Speaker 1: you make an adjustment, you send it away, and you're done. Granted,
Speaker 1: while you don't need screens everywhere, you do have to
Speaker 1: wear a pair of goggle and and these things are
Speaker 1: not lightweight or refined quite as of yet. Yeah, they're there.
Speaker 1: I would say that they have a bit up more
Speaker 1: aesthetic appeal than Google glass does for at least some people,
Speaker 1: and a lot of folks. I mean, Lauren's making a face.
Speaker 1: I think you might feel otherwise. I I feel distinctly otherwise.
Speaker 1: I think, well, I think because the hollow lens is
Speaker 1: not meant to be worn outside of your room, than
Speaker 1: it has you know, whereas google glass was meant as
Speaker 1: a thing that you wore all the time always. That
Speaker 1: also plays a part in it, because because I have
Speaker 1: I have a feeling of I'd be willing to wear
Speaker 1: that thing in my home where no one can judge me.
Speaker 1: I was opposed to I will wear this thing where
Speaker 1: everyone will judge me. But at any rate, Uh, that
Speaker 1: is a great example of a potential use for these
Speaker 1: kind of glasses. And that's you know, just one of
Speaker 1: a billion that we're going to talk about you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course the other thing being screens as in
Speaker 1: for projection of media like television. I mean, so instead
Speaker 1: of having uh TVs everywhere in your house, you could
Speaker 1: actually just have goggles. You can look at a wall
Speaker 1: and the TV that you want to watch is on
Speaker 1: that wall. Now, which obviously you could also have it
Speaker 1: just the size of the screen that you want to
Speaker 1: see based upon the image, you know, your field of
Speaker 1: view within the goggles themselves. So if you're thinking, I
Speaker 1: want to watch this as if I had a television
Speaker 1: and then you just see like a corner of Molder's
Speaker 1: foot and episode of X Files and you have to
Speaker 1: look way up into the right to see what's going on,
Speaker 1: you could potentially do that. It's not something that was
Speaker 1: you know, advertised in the Hollow Lens demo, but you
Speaker 1: could do it. Yeah, we're getting a little bit away
Speaker 1: from what the Hollow Lens currently is, although we we
Speaker 1: do certainly want to talk about the future of the technology,
Speaker 1: being that this is a future based technology show, y um.
Speaker 1: But but let's before we get back into that, let's
Speaker 1: go back into the reality of what it currently is now.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a pair of goggles. How how
Speaker 1: are these goggles doing this? From what I've read, they
Speaker 1: have crammed a really impressive amount of computer power into
Speaker 1: this headset, and you can see why they need to,
Speaker 1: because think about the kind of computing job that this
Speaker 1: thing needs to do. If it's going to be staying
Speaker 1: consistent with with really low lag or latency, projecting three
Speaker 1: D images and onto places in your environment and recognizing
Speaker 1: where they should go continuously even if you move your
Speaker 1: head around, uh, continuously updating based on your movements, and
Speaker 1: it's just got to be dealing with so much data
Speaker 1: every single split second. Yeah. Yeah, and right now, the
Speaker 1: demo kits of this actually have a thing that you
Speaker 1: kind of hang around your neck where some of the
Speaker 1: computing process lives. Um, I'm not sure whether or not
Speaker 1: Microsoft is planning on changing that to a headset only
Speaker 1: thing or Yeah, I think it's supposed to be just
Speaker 1: the head So the pictures that that they've shown at
Speaker 1: least don't seem to have that same I read the
Speaker 1: same thing that don't seem to have that demo pack there.
Speaker 1: It's been kind of menteurized and optimized. Obviously when you're
Speaker 1: creating a prototype, then you're not worried about the final
Speaker 1: packaging or anything like that. But when you've you want
Speaker 1: to market it to either consumers or prosumers or business professionals,
Speaker 1: however you want to determine your market. You wanted to
Speaker 1: look like it's very sleek and it's going to just
Speaker 1: work out of the box. So, yeah, this thing has
Speaker 1: to be able to track motion. It has to be
Speaker 1: able to map the images to that motion and to
Speaker 1: the physical environment that you are in. If you wanted
Speaker 1: to do something like create a a uh image of
Speaker 1: whatever a prototype that you had in mind. You have
Speaker 1: designed something and you want to be able to look
Speaker 1: at it and have it sit on a table and
Speaker 1: then be able to walk around the table and look
Speaker 1: at this thing from all angles. It obviously has to
Speaker 1: be able to render all of that and update it
Speaker 1: in as close to real time as possible. Like Joe
Speaker 1: was saying, without latency, I mean, if you add latency
Speaker 1: in there, then that's going to be an unpleasant experience
Speaker 1: or at least an unsatisfying one. Uh. Be a little
Speaker 1: bit different than something like the oculus, where your latency
Speaker 1: is part of the problem about you know, you get
Speaker 1: that nauseated feeling. And it's also because the environment you're
Speaker 1: looking at in the goggles is different from your actual environment.
Speaker 1: That's one big advantage hollow lens has that you're constantly
Speaker 1: looking at your real environment, assuming that you haven't completely
Speaker 1: covered it up in digital imagery, and you can you know,
Speaker 1: as you're moving around, your brain is able to say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm walking around a real environment. It's just a real
Speaker 1: environment that happens to have these hyper real things in it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's really cool that they got this
Speaker 1: technology to all work together. I mean, this is something
Speaker 1: that we've seen in other you know, like handheld devices
Speaker 1: and cameras and things like that, but never in a
Speaker 1: wearable that could respond in real time like this. Even
Speaker 1: Google Glass was not capable of doing this sort of
Speaker 1: stuff right right, And if you're if you're wondering how
Speaker 1: the controls work on this kind of thing right now,
Speaker 1: it seems like look controls are a really big part
Speaker 1: of how you interact with this augmented reality environment around you.
Speaker 1: It's it's basically pointing your head at whatever you want
Speaker 1: to interact with and using your head and neck gestures
Speaker 1: gestures and floaty quotation marks UM as though they're augmented
Speaker 1: reality quotation marks to to tell the computer what you
Speaker 1: want to interact with. And there are some gesture controls,
Speaker 1: but not a full suite of them perhaps yet. Right now,
Speaker 1: it's mostly what they call an air tap, which is
Speaker 1: clicking in your field of view with a finger as
Speaker 1: though you're clicking a mouse button almost, And that's another
Speaker 1: thing that it has to be able to do, right.
Speaker 1: It has to be able to judge where your physical
Speaker 1: like where your hand is in in regards to this
Speaker 1: this uh image that you can see but of course
Speaker 1: is not actually in the space that you are you
Speaker 1: are in, so that if you want to tap on something,
Speaker 1: let's say that you create an app where there's depth
Speaker 1: in something. Let's say you've got like a cube of images.
Speaker 1: I don't know why you would do this, but I've
Speaker 1: seen this sort of demo before where you've got a
Speaker 1: cube of different images. So it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: a um, you know, a slide show, except it's it's
Speaker 1: slightly a scus. So you can see that there are
Speaker 1: rows and columns of these pictures and it has you know,
Speaker 1: it goes back like ten pictures deep and you want
Speaker 1: to select something that's in the first column, third row,
Speaker 1: but two images back. Then it would have to be
Speaker 1: able to sense the depth of your hand in relation
Speaker 1: to the image it's projecting, so that it actually selects
Speaker 1: the right image. Otherwise you're going to end up with
Speaker 1: the wrong thing, and again it will be an unsatisfying experience.
Speaker 1: So that's another thing it has to take into account.
Speaker 1: And of course, right now, like you were saying, Lauren,
Speaker 1: they don't have the full gesture control worked out, but
Speaker 1: that's something that's supposedly going to be in the finished model.
Speaker 1: That and voice controls as well, right right. Voice controls
Speaker 1: are part of the current demos. But yeah, you it's
Speaker 1: more like, um, it's more like playing missed almost if
Speaker 1: if all y'all can remember, it's a point and click
Speaker 1: kind of thing, more so than the Tony Stark image
Speaker 1: of being able to pick up an object, a virtual object,
Speaker 1: and play around with it right and then stretch it
Speaker 1: out or turn it upside down, push it away. I
Speaker 1: just made a gesture. I knew exactly what you meant,
Speaker 1: but yeah, no, this is this is exactly that you know.
Speaker 1: This is where we're headed. It's it's I expect that
Speaker 1: a lot of those gesture controls will be worked out
Speaker 1: by the time this thing does hit the market, and
Speaker 1: they're they're talking about it being available for developers this year,
Speaker 1: so it's we're talking we're talking soon and uh. But again,
Speaker 1: this is something that was proposed by the same guy
Speaker 1: who proposed the connect sensors, So gest your control is
Speaker 1: definitely something that they know a lot about already. Now
Speaker 1: let's look into some of the future possible uses of
Speaker 1: this stuff, like, you know, why, why would you want it?
Speaker 1: And we've talked a little bit about the idea of
Speaker 1: turning all the different services in your home into screens
Speaker 1: if you wanted to, or being able to interact with
Speaker 1: different systems that way, if you could interconnect them. But
Speaker 1: what are some of the other ways we could talk about. Well,
Speaker 1: one of the things things that I've thought about before
Speaker 1: is simply how this could be the way we actually
Speaker 1: create the experience of viewing what people think they're talking
Speaker 1: about when they say holograms. Because as as we talked
Speaker 1: about in our old podcast about holograms, I mean, as
Speaker 1: far as I'm aware, there is still really no satisfying
Speaker 1: technology that will create that thing people think already exists,
Speaker 1: but doesn't the Princess Leiah or the Arnold Schwarzenegger in total. Recall,
Speaker 1: the projected image made entirely of light that stands alone,
Speaker 1: not based on a screen, and can be viewed from
Speaker 1: any angle. That is, as far as I know, that
Speaker 1: is not a thing in reality, and I don't really
Speaker 1: see how it could be without without some other medium there,
Speaker 1: like a cloud of particles that you're using as a screen.
Speaker 1: And even then it's problematic, right right, without some kind
Speaker 1: of technology that we cannot currently foresee. Yeah, uh, And
Speaker 1: so you know, for a while, I guess we were
Speaker 1: just kind of stuck with that. I mean, you, you're
Speaker 1: never going to see Arnold Schwartzenegger walk into the room
Speaker 1: unless he's really there, unless you've got a really clever
Speaker 1: three D screen right behind where you're looking. But with this,
Speaker 1: you could kill my dream. You you would just wear
Speaker 1: the goggles and everybody could wear the goggles, and in
Speaker 1: that way you actually could have some sort of collaborative
Speaker 1: three D hologram experience if everybody in the room is
Speaker 1: wearing these advisor like this. Sure, and keep in mind
Speaker 1: that you're still looking at a screen, the screen that's
Speaker 1: very close to your eyes and that you can also
Speaker 1: see through exactly as opposed to like a three D television,
Speaker 1: which is creating an effect that appears out in front
Speaker 1: of itself. This is a screen that's creating an effect
Speaker 1: that appears beyond itself. Yeah, it's it's creating that that
Speaker 1: illusion of depth and presence. Yeah, And there are tons
Speaker 1: of different potential applications. One of the as I I
Speaker 1: talked about, and I've mentioned it a little bit already
Speaker 1: in this episode, as the idea of prototypes, I specifically
Speaker 1: in our notes talked about think about it using it
Speaker 1: to design a new kind of car, and you've got
Speaker 1: all designed and you wanted to see what looks like
Speaker 1: as if it were a real vehicle, without having to
Speaker 1: actually build the thing. You could end up using these
Speaker 1: these glasses, you know, have a space large enough for
Speaker 1: an actual car to be in, use it to project
Speaker 1: the image of the finished car, or what the finished
Speaker 1: car would look like, and be able to walk around
Speaker 1: the entire perimeter of that car and get a look
Speaker 1: at You could even spin the car around or even
Speaker 1: flip it upside down if you wanted to, which obviously
Speaker 1: would be somewhat problematic with a real vehicle. But when yeah,
Speaker 1: effortless with this and you know, yeah, and you could
Speaker 1: even I could even imagine this being something where you
Speaker 1: can network multiple pairs of this stuff together so that
Speaker 1: people could all be in the same space, looking at
Speaker 1: the same physical location, seeing the same virtual creation, and
Speaker 1: even if you design it properly, have it so that
Speaker 1: their perspectives are all uh created from one model, so
Speaker 1: that way, like I have it where the front of
Speaker 1: the cars facing a window, in the back of the
Speaker 1: car is facing a door. For everyone else, it's the
Speaker 1: same orientation, and then you can just walk around and
Speaker 1: see it. You know. However, uh, I could see that
Speaker 1: being a possibility. But another one is that the idea
Speaker 1: that you know, you could have a mechanic working on
Speaker 1: an unfamiliar system and get guidance on how to prepare
Speaker 1: that system. This, I thought was actually one of the
Speaker 1: best cases I saw projected by the people who were
Speaker 1: creating these promo videos. And it was not exactly what
Speaker 1: you're saying, but a situation kind of like it where
Speaker 1: they had one person sitting there trying to fix a
Speaker 1: sink with the goggles on, and she uh so, she
Speaker 1: in her goggle display pinned to the wall a display
Speaker 1: of somebody who knew how to fix the sink, and
Speaker 1: the person who knew how to fix the sink could
Speaker 1: see what she saw and could draw on it in
Speaker 1: her vision, like circle part of the pipe and say,
Speaker 1: you need to tighten this bolt here. Uh, and the
Speaker 1: person would be a face on the wall talking to
Speaker 1: her while being able to see from her point of view.
Speaker 1: So it would be like having an interactive tutorial video
Speaker 1: that can actually look at exactly what you're trying to do. Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: The current demo that they're using is done through Skype
Speaker 1: and so right, so you've got that little floating face
Speaker 1: or of floating webcam shot and they can write, they
Speaker 1: can they can circle parts on on your screen or
Speaker 1: point little arrows at where you need to make it
Speaker 1: go or right. Yeah, it's amazing. It makes me think
Speaker 1: you could have a future where there could be a
Speaker 1: plumber or or an auto mechanic who doesn't yeah, who
Speaker 1: doesn't even actually have to touch your stuff. They could
Speaker 1: be a call in service like tech support or some
Speaker 1: thing like that where you just look at what you're doing,
Speaker 1: you get in contact with them. They point at things
Speaker 1: and say do this, and you can do it yourself. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Another potential use for this is shopping. I'm actually super
Speaker 1: excited about this because I've been buying furniture recently for
Speaker 1: my house, and the scary part about buying furniture is
Speaker 1: that even after you've done all the measurements and you
Speaker 1: go to the store and you make sure that the
Speaker 1: thing in the store you're gonna buy fits the measurements
Speaker 1: you've made, you really don't know how it's gonna look
Speaker 1: in the space till you get it in the space.
Speaker 1: And by then you've spent a lot of time, effort,
Speaker 1: and possibly money to get it there, and you think
Speaker 1: it doesn't look the way I wanted to, but is
Speaker 1: it worth the effort to return it. This would give
Speaker 1: you a chance of being able to see stuff without
Speaker 1: having made that final, you know, commitment of purchasing something.
Speaker 1: The example I read in a blog post was all out.
Speaker 1: How imagine that you get Ikea and Ikea creates a
Speaker 1: virtual catalog that is hollow lens compatible, and you think,
Speaker 1: I want to see what this dresser would look like
Speaker 1: in this space in my bedroom, and you you choose
Speaker 1: that one with your hollow lens, and now you can
Speaker 1: see what it would look like if it were set
Speaker 1: up there, and then you think, I don't really like
Speaker 1: that one. Let's try the next model. You could do
Speaker 1: that and you could actually walk around it, see how
Speaker 1: it fits in your space, whether it complements the rest
Speaker 1: of your furniture, that kind of stuff, And as simple
Speaker 1: an application as that is, I totally want that right now,
Speaker 1: especially since I've gone through this furniture thing for a
Speaker 1: few weeks and a Matt wits end. But no, this
Speaker 1: this to me, this actually does sound like a really
Speaker 1: cool application that could appeal to a large consumer base,
Speaker 1: not just you know. The message I see a lot
Speaker 1: in this is that it's going to be great for
Speaker 1: business applications, which I don't doubt, but I think there
Speaker 1: are a lot of consumer applications that would be excellent
Speaker 1: for as well. Another one that popped up was the
Speaker 1: idea of making a recipe. So let's say you've got
Speaker 1: all the ingredients, you know, maybe it even tells you
Speaker 1: where those ingredients are. If you've used an application that
Speaker 1: has you know, you've got a database that tells where
Speaker 1: you keep stuff, and it tells you, oh, you need
Speaker 1: to go over this cabinet because you've forgotten such and
Speaker 1: such stuff. You don't have that laid out in here,
Speaker 1: and you haven't measured anything out yet, you've got all
Speaker 1: the stuff ready. It gives you a step by step
Speaker 1: approach to building whatever it is you're gonna build for
Speaker 1: your recipe. I can't believe I'm using building and stepp cooking,
Speaker 1: but there you go. Uh. And it even tells you
Speaker 1: how much you're using while you're dishing it out, so
Speaker 1: you don't need like a measuring cup and say, all right,
Speaker 1: you've got about a third of a cup there you need.
Speaker 1: You need to do two more of those, and then
Speaker 1: you've got your cup of stuff. I'm skeptical that it
Speaker 1: would be able to look at a quantity and say
Speaker 1: how much it was. Well, if it knows, if it
Speaker 1: knows the general like if it can sense if you
Speaker 1: can hold up a spoon, for example, and they can
Speaker 1: do measurements, it can do some calculations on the fly
Speaker 1: about how much of all you ma can hold. There's
Speaker 1: no reason maybe couldn't. I'm not saying no way, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying I'll need some convincing. Yeah, well, I I
Speaker 1: thought that maybe something more along the lines of building
Speaker 1: a bookshelf for hanging a picture on your wall could
Speaker 1: be an intermediate step between these things, you know, like
Speaker 1: maybe your headset could show you where on on a
Speaker 1: piece of lumber you want to make a cut, um
Speaker 1: you don't you know, like like give you a guiding
Speaker 1: line for for your saw, or help you figure out
Speaker 1: where to put the nails so that your picture will
Speaker 1: be equidistant from the things around it on on your
Speaker 1: walls something like that, Like like kind of more basic
Speaker 1: measurements again with air quotes. Yeah, I mean these would
Speaker 1: be really useful if you're an amateur who wants to
Speaker 1: do surgery, like with the help of a real surgeon
Speaker 1: through Skype. Well, Joe, at first, I require you to
Speaker 1: complete all of the missions and surgeons simulator and get
Speaker 1: at least an A on all of them, So I
Speaker 1: want to see that first before I allow you to
Speaker 1: oper rate on me. Another thing we could talk about
Speaker 1: is that Microsoft owns a particular game, Specifically, they own
Speaker 1: the studio that made the game, and they've talked about
Speaker 1: how this particular game will be playable on a hollow
Speaker 1: lens headset in the near future. That game, of course,
Speaker 1: is Mind Sweeper Minecraft. Man, I would play virtual mind.
Speaker 1: I would like to let my listeners know that I
Speaker 1: am a Minecraft player and I too feel your hate. No,
Speaker 1: it's been Minecraft. Minecraft is generuinely a fun game. It's
Speaker 1: really but you know, you don't normally think of it
Speaker 1: as immersive. It's just it's it can you can get
Speaker 1: really focused on it, and sometimes that focus can border
Speaker 1: on obsession, but you don't tend to feel immersed in
Speaker 1: the world necessarily. But this would allow you to actually
Speaker 1: create Minecraft playing services in your in your physical space,
Speaker 1: like turning tabletops into a playable service, or the floor
Speaker 1: or other areas. We've talked about this with augmented reality
Speaker 1: in general. Before the idea that you could create video
Speaker 1: games that take place in physical environments, there was somebody
Speaker 1: a while back who created this great YouTube video. It
Speaker 1: wasn't actually a game, but it was just a sort
Speaker 1: of video simulating a game where it was like a
Speaker 1: two D side scroller, but it was in your living
Speaker 1: room Mario Mario jumping on your coffee table and on
Speaker 1: your coffee machine and right. And apparently some of the
Speaker 1: reports I read said that there was a game like
Speaker 1: this that the people who got to play with the
Speaker 1: prototype of the hollow Lens tested out. Yeah, they're those
Speaker 1: Verge kids were talking about this Minecraft demo that they
Speaker 1: had played, where, um, you know, they blasted a hole
Speaker 1: in their wall and realized that it was this like
Speaker 1: nether scape full of I don't know, Minecraft. It was
Speaker 1: essentially a portal into the Minecraft world at that point. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know they could they could punch your fake hole
Speaker 1: in their wall and see the building material that the
Speaker 1: wall was made of, which is Minecraft blocks. I admit,
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty cool. I also think, you know,
Speaker 1: just imagine the first hollow Lens survival horror game in
Speaker 1: your house. Nope, nope, Oh cool. You can learn to
Speaker 1: be afraid of the home you live in. I do
Speaker 1: not meet pym at head knocking on my doors. Oh man,
Speaker 1: that's great. These would be the best alarm clock ever.
Speaker 1: So you go to bed with your hollow lens on,
Speaker 1: and then at a certain time in the morning, it's
Speaker 1: like it's six thirty. It knows you've got to get up,
Speaker 1: but you don't respond to that buzzing alarm clock anymore.
Speaker 1: You just slap it turn it off. So with these things,
Speaker 1: it wakes you up with the sound of scraping metal
Speaker 1: against concrete and suddenly there is a man with a
Speaker 1: sack over his face, leaning over you, grabbing you by
Speaker 1: the throat, and it's time to get up. You're describing
Speaker 1: my typical windesday morning, good morning. Yeah, you know, we're juice.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure this kind of takes us to the
Speaker 1: dark side of hollow lens technology. Yeah, so one, this
Speaker 1: one is sort of like, you know, the those wonderful
Speaker 1: novels that talk about the the sapping uh suburban lifestyle
Speaker 1: that just drains everyone of of jois de vivre. Imagine
Speaker 1: that you're you're in the house. You've got several members
Speaker 1: of your family there, and you are all wearing a
Speaker 1: pair of hollow lens headsets. You're all sitting down on
Speaker 1: the couch staring at the same television, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: is not even switched on because you don't need it
Speaker 1: to be on, because what's happening is the hollow lens
Speaker 1: is projecting whatever it is you want to watch in
Speaker 1: your field of view as if it were on that
Speaker 1: TV screen, So you don't even really need a turned
Speaker 1: off TV there. You could just be staring at the wall.
Speaker 1: You could be, but it's easier to imagine if there's
Speaker 1: a TV there, because it acts as an actual anchor
Speaker 1: point for everybody, right, because otherwise everyone could be looking
Speaker 1: at a different point in the house. But if you
Speaker 1: have a TV, there's an anchor point saying this is
Speaker 1: where I want the screen to live, and everyone is
Speaker 1: looking at that. Potentially every single person could be watching
Speaker 1: his or her own favorite movie or television program or whatever.
Speaker 1: And you know, you've got the headphones on, so you're
Speaker 1: hearing the audio from whatever it is you want to see.
Speaker 1: You're watching the thing. The person saying next to you
Speaker 1: is watching an entirely different movie or TV show. The
Speaker 1: person sitting next to them is watching something entirely different.
Speaker 1: You can look to your left and right and actually
Speaker 1: see the people who are there with you, but you're
Speaker 1: all experiencing something different at the same time. And I
Speaker 1: can't decide that this is something that's awesome or terrible. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go on and say terrible. I most mostly
Speaker 1: my brain just popped directly to kind of like the
Speaker 1: worst case scenario wherein like, you're watching reruns of Friends
Speaker 1: on Netflix and the your your betty next to you
Speaker 1: is watching like Hotel Rwanda, uh and and so your
Speaker 1: laughter is increasingly and terrifyingly inappropriate. That would be an
Speaker 1: excellent way of saying this is terrible. Also kind of
Speaker 1: a highly specific scenario, Not really, I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: thinking about this becoming a ubiquitous piece of technology, it's
Speaker 1: certainly something that would happen, right, I mean, I could
Speaker 1: certainly like say, like, it's family time, let's all spend
Speaker 1: it together doing something. Each of us is doing a
Speaker 1: different thing and not communicating with one another, but we're
Speaker 1: physically in the same space. Obviously, this particular example, as
Speaker 1: ridiculous as it may be, or as specific as it
Speaker 1: may be, that's just one thing I picked out on
Speaker 1: the ether. There are plenty of things that could be
Speaker 1: problematic with hollowlens technology, right, sure, Well, extending the same
Speaker 1: thing you just talked about, you wouldn't have to imagine
Speaker 1: people sitting on a couch staring at something. I mean,
Speaker 1: this could just make it easier and easier for all
Speaker 1: of us to spend more of our time stuck individually
Speaker 1: with screens and less face to face time with each other.
Speaker 1: But we already managed to do a lot of screen
Speaker 1: time that's basically alone, even when we're physically around other people.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I would probably be really
Speaker 1: shocked and unhappy to find out how much of my
Speaker 1: time I spend just looking at the screen, not talking
Speaker 1: to another human being. Sure. Yeah, And I have had
Speaker 1: plenty of experiences going to dinner with friends where the
Speaker 1: first thing that happens as smartphones hit the table, and
Speaker 1: you think, well, I don't want to be that guy.
Speaker 1: But now no one's listening to me and they're all
Speaker 1: looking at their screens, and I kind of want to
Speaker 1: know what's happening on Twitter. So I mean, there is
Speaker 1: that that's but that's something again, like you point out, Joe,
Speaker 1: it's something that exists independently of the hollow lens technology.
Speaker 1: It's not as if hollow lens is bringing this on
Speaker 1: to us. And there are other issues as well, but
Speaker 1: it's the same sort of issues that we also see
Speaker 1: with other technologies. It's not something unique to this particular headset.
Speaker 1: So it's not like, you know, talking about the danger
Speaker 1: of hacking. Well, that's true with any device that's a computer,
Speaker 1: specifically a computer that has any connectivity to a network.
Speaker 1: It's really an issue that you have to be cognizant of.
Speaker 1: But it's not unique to the hollow lens. And ultimately,
Speaker 1: this is a device that you can remove. It's not
Speaker 1: something that's implanted where we have no choice but to
Speaker 1: see the things that are being displayed. Okay, how long
Speaker 1: until we can get these implanted? Are you wanting them
Speaker 1: or do you want to put them into someone else? Well,
Speaker 1: we've got some staples right here on our table. I'm
Speaker 1: sure we can just staple the headset right to Yet
Speaker 1: we've wanted to throw them away, but we don't have
Speaker 1: a waste basket. We don't need waste basket. Apparently not
Speaker 1: other things to talk about. As far as the future
Speaker 1: is concerned, I do see there being a huge amount
Speaker 1: of innovation and a push for development of applications on
Speaker 1: this platform. The buzz that has surrounded it has been
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly positive. I mean, there's been a few people who
Speaker 1: have pointed out things that they think need improvement before
Speaker 1: it actually debuts, But more more than not, I've seen
Speaker 1: lots of enthusiasm about this, more enthusiasm about this Microsoft
Speaker 1: product than I've seen for any Microsoft product in a
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, one of the things that could be
Speaker 1: classed as a pro oricon, depending on your point of
Speaker 1: view is the fact that this is specifically designed for
Speaker 1: indoor use. Yeah, and you know, I personally think that
Speaker 1: it's probably a better approach to go this route. Something
Speaker 1: that people can get comfortable around. They can see the
Speaker 1: promise of augmented reality in an environment that is safe,
Speaker 1: that's familiar, whether it's the office or it's their home whatever. Uh,
Speaker 1: and they don't again, they don't feel like there's any
Speaker 1: sort of social stigma because they're not wearing the stuff
Speaker 1: out in public. I think that that's a way to
Speaker 1: kind of build up han the promise of augment reality
Speaker 1: and maybe eventually get to a product that's more like
Speaker 1: Google Glass more meant to be something to wear all
Speaker 1: the time. Uh, that all will be more accepting of.
Speaker 1: And of course there are other products, not just the
Speaker 1: hollow lens. There's also you guys have heard of Magic Leap.
Speaker 1: Magic Leap was a company acquired by Google, or at
Speaker 1: least they're they're partnering with Google for many millions of
Speaker 1: dollars to develop a similar product to Hollow Lens. It's
Speaker 1: another kind of augmented reality pair of glasses. So I
Speaker 1: expect what's going to see like tons of development just
Speaker 1: in this space in general, not just for the hollow lens,
Speaker 1: but for other augmented reality glasses, because I think we're
Speaker 1: finally getting to the point where it's a viable platform
Speaker 1: to develop for you know. I want to report on
Speaker 1: a very strange phenomenon I observed in some comments on
Speaker 1: YouTube videos and articles about this, which was factional arguing
Speaker 1: about VR versus a R, so virtual reality versus augmented reality.
Speaker 1: I think of VR and a R as two sides
Speaker 1: of the same coin. They take very different approaches but
Speaker 1: are trying to do similar things in the sense that
Speaker 1: they are marrying physical reality and digital reality, but they're
Speaker 1: doing it in different ways. The virtual reality approach is
Speaker 1: to create a virtual environment that you appear to inhabit,
Speaker 1: and that your actions in the physical environment are translated
Speaker 1: to the actions within the virtual environment, whereas augmented reality
Speaker 1: is all about bringing virtual information into your physical environment.
Speaker 1: So you are chiefly present in the physical world, but
Speaker 1: you have augmented virtual information or graphics or whatever. So
Speaker 1: these are two different sides, the two sides of the
Speaker 1: same coin in my view. Uh and I can see
Speaker 1: why some people prefer one to the other. And and Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think virtual reality has a more limited appeal because
Speaker 1: I think the most the most accepted use of VR
Speaker 1: is in gaming, which means that you are marketing towards gamers,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily the a wider audience. Oh yeah, it
Speaker 1: depends on the application. Another demo that Microsoft was running
Speaker 1: for those verge kids who I mentioned earlier was something
Speaker 1: that they've partnered up with jp L and NASA about,
Speaker 1: which is a simulation of walking around on Mars and
Speaker 1: seeing what the Curiosity rover is seeing, which is really cool.
Speaker 1: They also reported that it was not an environment quite
Speaker 1: as immersive as something like the Oculus rift. Right, So,
Speaker 1: so you know, so they're going to be gaps and
Speaker 1: differences in how you're going to want to use two different,
Speaker 1: two differing technologies like that. But I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a right. I don't think it's a competition. I think
Speaker 1: I'm hoping. What I'm really hoping is that it will
Speaker 1: encourage development of both of these technologies for the greater
Speaker 1: good of all of us. Yeah, I mean, they seem
Speaker 1: like they have largely different applications to me. I think
Speaker 1: the applications of augmented reality, like you said, are going
Speaker 1: to be broader. Virtual reality has a lot of potential
Speaker 1: in gaming and in I don't know, sort of like
Speaker 1: environment exploration and maybe even just in like creating mood
Speaker 1: experiences and stuff like that. But with a R you've
Speaker 1: got a broader range of experiences. I like the way
Speaker 1: some of the people, as I was saying earlier, put
Speaker 1: it in their promotion of this, which is that it's
Speaker 1: not just tagging things around you with data, but it's
Speaker 1: bringing computing out of the screen. It's that you're you
Speaker 1: can do computing anywhere now, it's not just you have
Speaker 1: to go to the machine with the screen on it
Speaker 1: and do computing on that screen. Well. And it's also
Speaker 1: I mean augmented reality. You have the option of actually
Speaker 1: moving around your physical environment and not tripping over something
Speaker 1: and killing yourself because you can actually see your physical
Speaker 1: environment along with the digital stuff, whereas with virtual reality,
Speaker 1: unless you've set up a very specific kind of of
Speaker 1: you know, environment for you to move around it where
Speaker 1: you have a boulder where your couches for example, yeah,
Speaker 1: you generally want to kind of uh stays still when
Speaker 1: you're using DR NO. I imagine the kinds of games
Speaker 1: they'll have to create for these where there there is
Speaker 1: just a rock that happens to be shaped a lot
Speaker 1: like a couch, and one that shaped like a coffee table.
Speaker 1: I think one of my favorite articles I read, and
Speaker 1: now I want to say it was in the Verge,
Speaker 1: but I could be wrong about this was a guy
Speaker 1: wrote about potential uses of the hollow lens that he
Speaker 1: really really wanted to see come to pass, and they
Speaker 1: were all ridiculous, purposefully so. And my favorite was you
Speaker 1: could play a really intense game of the floor is lava.
Speaker 1: The floor is always lava. Like, man, that's awesome. Play
Speaker 1: that game. Can you imagine what this office would be
Speaker 1: like with like rivers of lava everybody. We're just watching
Speaker 1: people leap from to and fro to try and get
Speaker 1: to their desks. Would be really entertaining. I basically already
Speaker 1: do that all the time. This would just explain your
Speaker 1: erratic behavior. So I can't step on the lava. It's lava, guys.
Speaker 1: You can see it too, now, Yeah, so you know
Speaker 1: that these are we We're gonna be seeing a lot
Speaker 1: more of this sort of stuff, like not just the jokes, obviously,
Speaker 1: not just the the competitors to the Hollow lens. But
Speaker 1: we're going to see a lot more I think, expansion
Speaker 1: into what computing really means and how we can experience it.
Speaker 1: The question I don't know the answer to yet is
Speaker 1: will enough people accept that to make it a viable
Speaker 1: new form of computing or will it simply be a
Speaker 1: flash in the pan kind of thing like Google Glass was. Oh,
Speaker 1: even even though Google did end Project Glass. Uh and
Speaker 1: and we we just we just pointed out kind of
Speaker 1: off off camera that they ended at the same day
Speaker 1: that this was announced. Yeah, the hollow lens was announced. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a big day in augmented reality for different reasons. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think that that kind of thing is is dead.
Speaker 1: I don't think that even even Glass is dead. I
Speaker 1: suspect the Google is still working on it in some
Speaker 1: kind of sub basement like they do. Um And and
Speaker 1: also keep in mind that there are lots and lots
Speaker 1: of other smaller or perhaps less visible companies that are
Speaker 1: working on virtual reality and augmented reality. Yeah. I if
Speaker 1: I had to make a prediction right now, and I
Speaker 1: guess I don't have to, but I'm gonna so they're
Speaker 1: Um No, I think that we're going to see a
Speaker 1: big boom and in this kind of thing in the
Speaker 1: next three to five years. Now, I have another question
Speaker 1: for you, guys. This is just a personal question. Let's say,
Speaker 1: all right, hollow lens comes out, and there are a
Speaker 1: decent suite of applications, whether work related, gaming, related, entertainment, whatever,
Speaker 1: that are supported by hollow lens, and you happen to
Speaker 1: have a device that you know allows you to access
Speaker 1: this the way it's meant to be. Um, would you
Speaker 1: get a pair? Assuming that's within your price range? Obviously?
Speaker 1: Would you Is this something that you personally would be
Speaker 1: interested in? Joe? Your answer? You know, I think I
Speaker 1: might actually be. You'll probably know this about me. Despite
Speaker 1: how interested I am in technology, I don't buy a
Speaker 1: lot of new technology. I'm not what you would call
Speaker 1: an early adopter. Often I'm an early read about her.
Speaker 1: That's fair. Um, But with this I can actually see
Speaker 1: a lot of uses. I mean, if it's actually comfortable, useful,
Speaker 1: I mean, if if all the hype proofs true personal uses,
Speaker 1: I can imagine a lot um. I don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of counterspace in my kitchen, and I very often
Speaker 1: want to be like watching a cooking video or something
Speaker 1: like that. While I'm trying to cook something and there's
Speaker 1: not space for my laptop on the counter, or I've
Speaker 1: got to put it way over here and keep looking
Speaker 1: back and forth. It would be kind of cool if
Speaker 1: I could just have this video in the corner of
Speaker 1: my screen, or pin it to the wall, or or
Speaker 1: you know, even just to not have to get your
Speaker 1: your sticky egg fingers all over your laptop screen whenever
Speaker 1: you want to scroll down in the recipe. Oh, you
Speaker 1: are dead on with that concern that at my chicken
Speaker 1: hands on the Yeah, now, I like getting as much
Speaker 1: salmonella as possible all of my technology services. Of course
Speaker 1: that's not the only reason, But I can actually see
Speaker 1: this being something that's pretty cool and pretty interesting, especially
Speaker 1: just for the the mobility of screens and computing within
Speaker 1: this interface. Right, and Lauren, what about yourself? I suspect
Speaker 1: that for me personally, the price range would have to
Speaker 1: be extraordinarily reasonable, perhaps far more reasonable than they are
Speaker 1: prepared to make it in anything like the near future,
Speaker 1: for me to want to buy one UM. But again
Speaker 1: that like, like I'm I am definitely not a new
Speaker 1: adopter of technologies, and so that that's more the reason,
Speaker 1: Like I can see it being extremely useful. But it's
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that I can see myself going like, well,
Speaker 1: I can live without it. What if they what if
Speaker 1: Hell Stuff Works were to purchase some for people to
Speaker 1: use the office, would you be willing to put one on?
Speaker 1: Knowing how many cameras are also in this? Yeah, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I think we should just do mock ups of the
Speaker 1: hollow lens that have absolutely no transparency in the lands
Speaker 1: interest seeing people bump into walls and stuff and take
Speaker 1: video of that. You guys, I put stupid stuff on
Speaker 1: my head all the time. It doesn't even give me.
Speaker 1: We don't. We don't. We're We're not asking you to
Speaker 1: be covered in blood for once for one of our videos.
Speaker 1: Can't do both? Well, yeah, if you really want to,
Speaker 1: we can do both. We can. I'm sure we can
Speaker 1: work something up. I would definitely test one out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that'd be great. Yeah. I wonder though, what
Speaker 1: the terminology is going to be, because of course, like
Speaker 1: with Google Glass, we got our own, you know, derisive terminology.
Speaker 1: You have heard what that is. I don't need to
Speaker 1: say it on here, and I think going back to
Speaker 1: our the beginning of our show here, it's going to
Speaker 1: be the hollow men h o l oh men seems
Speaker 1: seems rather gender specific. Well, it's it's poem specific, it
Speaker 1: is it. It's a literary reference specific. So so so, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: would you if she come on? I own a pair
Speaker 1: of Google glass of course I would get one of these.
Speaker 1: And so here's the thing, um, I love. I love
Speaker 1: this implementation specifically because of that penning ability, the ability
Speaker 1: to to assign a virtual construct, whatever it might be,
Speaker 1: a physical anchor, so that way, it's not constantly in
Speaker 1: my vision. It's in my vision when I want to
Speaker 1: look at it. I think that's brilliant because of course,
Speaker 1: the difference between that and Google glasses. That glass had
Speaker 1: a little monitor that you would glance up at to
Speaker 1: see right, but it was always right there in the
Speaker 1: periphery of your vision. You could never look away from
Speaker 1: it totally. I mean, it was always going to be
Speaker 1: there and you wouldn't necessarily have it obstructing your view.
Speaker 1: But it didn't feel really natural. It did mean that
Speaker 1: you had to move your eyes up to look at it,
Speaker 1: which meant that you were no longer looking forward. So
Speaker 1: you could be walking for example, hazard could like a
Speaker 1: dog walking in front of you, perhaps and you don't
Speaker 1: notice that it has stopped, and you continue to walk
Speaker 1: while you're looking up at your screen. So I I
Speaker 1: really like that particular part of the implementation of hollow lens.
Speaker 1: Did glass have any gesture control capability? It had. It
Speaker 1: had swept control because it had a little touch sensitive
Speaker 1: surface on one of the leg the the little sides
Speaker 1: of the glass, so you could use that for control.
Speaker 1: It had voice control as well. I know about the
Speaker 1: voice control. It did have just your control in the
Speaker 1: sense that you could said it so that if you're
Speaker 1: if you incline your head at a certain angle, you
Speaker 1: could you could wake it up from standby mode. But no,
Speaker 1: you couldn't swipe it stuff in front of you and
Speaker 1: control it with your hand. There's no way for it
Speaker 1: to Yeah, it couldn't detect depth in that way, and
Speaker 1: it also, um, you know, it was very limited in
Speaker 1: in that sense. Well, this is another criticism I have
Speaker 1: of that kind of thing. I think technologies that are
Speaker 1: too dependent on voice controls do not have a very
Speaker 1: bright future. I think voice control has a place, but
Speaker 1: most of the time people want to be able to
Speaker 1: be quiet while they're controlling their devices. Yeah, yeah, well
Speaker 1: that they don't want other people to suddenly hijack their devices. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the like you know if I say okay, Google
Speaker 1: and then it goes Badique and someone yells out, you know,
Speaker 1: search my little pony, and then I decided to pick
Speaker 1: something simple. I mean, granted, I that's in my search
Speaker 1: history already, but if it weren't, I might find that embarrassing, well,
Speaker 1: or not embarrassing, but just annoying. Like you were trying
Speaker 1: to do something practical like check your email, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're looking at ponies and it's really
Speaker 1: not pony and it could be it could be something
Speaker 1: way worse than that, And knowing my friends, it would
Speaker 1: be okay, glass make me really conspicuous. One more thing
Speaker 1: that I do think that this kind of headset is
Speaker 1: going to allow us to do, is um get any
Speaker 1: member of a family to answer a video call privately,
Speaker 1: especially if that member of a family is Michael J.
Speaker 1: Fox in drag. Oh, you're taking us back to Back
Speaker 1: to the Future Part two, Part two, I think so.
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, it was back to Back to
Speaker 1: the Future to part two. Yes, that we talked about that,
Speaker 1: um so huge shout out to Microsoft for doing this
Speaker 1: event about the hollow lens precisely a week after we
Speaker 1: released our podcast about this, and we're all like, well,
Speaker 1: we certainly don't have anything like that in reality. Well,
Speaker 1: and the year two thousand and fifteen, the year that
Speaker 1: Marty McFly travels to and Back to the Future Part two,
Speaker 1: I think I think they started planning this like the
Speaker 1: week that we released that podcast, just to punk us.
Speaker 1: You know, here's a question for you, guys, just just
Speaker 1: final question. Do you think there are any other technologies
Speaker 1: and back to the Future too that had not previously
Speaker 1: come out that some companies are going Guys, we seriously
Speaker 1: need to finish this because this is the year the
Speaker 1: telescoping baseball bats. That's what you as I recall, that's
Speaker 1: what you felt the entire film really was about. Yes,
Speaker 1: was that piece of technology? Did you know that there
Speaker 1: is a Back to the Future wiki page about that
Speaker 1: baseball back on the Back to the Future Wiki? I
Speaker 1: doubt not. Um, All right, I'm going to say that
Speaker 1: everything this year is We're going to suddenly get the
Speaker 1: technology to have everything sound like it's hydraulic. I think
Speaker 1: that that was the best take off. If nothing else,
Speaker 1: will each be issued a little sound effect button that
Speaker 1: we just press whenever anything happens to give it that
Speaker 1: hydraulic sound. Now, I want it to be fully automated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do too, but we may have to make some compromises.
Speaker 1: Is what I'm saying. Does not compromise. We don't really
Speaker 1: compromise either, folks. We are so thankful to have listeners
Speaker 1: who write in and ask us these awesome questions because
Speaker 1: it creates the most insane conversations that I've had on
Speaker 1: work hours. And I sit next to Josh Clark, so
Speaker 1: that's saying something. So Andrew, thank you again for sending
Speaker 1: that request. And if you out there, any of you
Speaker 1: have a similar request. You want to know how something
Speaker 1: is going to pan out in the future, You want
Speaker 1: to hear our take on any sort of science fiction
Speaker 1: out there, anything along those lines, you should let us know.
Speaker 1: Send us an email that addresses f W Thinking at
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com, or drop us a line
Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter or Google Plus. On Twitter and Google
Speaker 1: Plus where f W thinking and over at Facebook. Just
Speaker 1: search fw thinking in the search bar will pop right
Speaker 1: up and we'll talk to you again really soon for
Speaker 1: more on this topic. In the Future of Technology, visit
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