WEBVTT - Vivino Founder on Wine App Startup

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. We mentioned this

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<v Speaker 1>last week. It was our bite of the day. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, about how wine startup Aevino raised fifty five

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<v Speaker 1>million to expand into new countries at some staff build

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<v Speaker 1>out its recommendation engine after more than doubling, doubling wine

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<v Speaker 1>sales during the pandemic, more than doubling. So here to

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<v Speaker 1>talk more about what they are doing is Heiny Zacharias,

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<v Speaker 1>and he is CEO and founder of the wine apps

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<v Speaker 1>startup Pavino. He's on the phone from Copenhagen and full disclosure,

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<v Speaker 1>I love great red wine and I use the Vivino app.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact was using it over the weekend. UM, honey,

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<v Speaker 1>nice to have you here. Welcome or welcome back. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you very much, very glad to be here. So first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, I want to talk about the capital raise,

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<v Speaker 1>but I really also want to find out what this

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<v Speaker 1>year has been like. UM. For you take me back

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of last March in April and the pandemic.

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<v Speaker 1>What was going on in your business, what was going

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<v Speaker 1>on with your employees, what were you seeing in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of consumer trends. Yeah, it was a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a crazy time honestly because we we didn't know what

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<v Speaker 1>was going to happen, right, so we had we have

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<v Speaker 1>people in Hong Kong too, they had seen something. But

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<v Speaker 1>once it hit the US, we're talking mid marchers, so

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<v Speaker 1>we actually started by sort of pupping the brake a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit and say, Okay, what's this gonna be, what's

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<v Speaker 1>this gonna look like, what's gonna happen to our sales?

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<v Speaker 1>But we pretty quickly saw that it was gonna move

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<v Speaker 1>us sillswise in the right direction. So so things when

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<v Speaker 1>we had twenty of the March, things just jumped, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>revenue just went way way up there in the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>We also had a little bit problems with you know,

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<v Speaker 1>customers support and supply and so on, so that took

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<v Speaker 1>us a month or two to really get back up

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<v Speaker 1>to speed. But like a crazy time for us, and

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<v Speaker 1>and you know it was it was rough, but but

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<v Speaker 1>numbers were good. Yeah, but so pretty quickly March that

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, um, you know, and has it

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<v Speaker 1>been pretty consistent in terms of growth or have you

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<v Speaker 1>seen a steady increase from month to month. It was.

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<v Speaker 1>It really jumped for for two or three months and

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<v Speaker 1>like totally crazy, right, and we may be in the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning thought, okay, what is this is just like a

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<v Speaker 1>short term thing. People want to make sure they have winers.

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<v Speaker 1>So but then stabilized at a certain level and and

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<v Speaker 1>it's been really really good ever since that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just more buyers converting and and just higher numbers all over.

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<v Speaker 1>And even when Europe sort of opened up over the summer,

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<v Speaker 1>we didn't see numbers really go down again. So we

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<v Speaker 1>just landed at a new level. Well, that's what I

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<v Speaker 1>want to ask you, and I'm sure listen, honey, that

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people are asking you, and we all

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<v Speaker 1>wonder that, Okay, there are these trends. Whether you're a peloton,

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<v Speaker 1>whether you're you know, what have you? You know, do

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<v Speaker 1>what we've seen over the last year because of the

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<v Speaker 1>pandemic and we were forced to predominantly be in our homes,

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<v Speaker 1>work from our homes, living our homes. Do do those

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<v Speaker 1>trains trends stay with us? What indications do you have

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<v Speaker 1>that the growth that you've seen that you hold on

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<v Speaker 1>to it and it continues to stay with you As

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<v Speaker 1>the world start it's to reopen. Yeah, it's a good question, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think first we can say for certain like wine

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<v Speaker 1>is probably not a fan, right, it's probably gonna stay

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<v Speaker 1>with it. That in my world, so so they're probably

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<v Speaker 1>gonna keep buying wine. But what our theory and what

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<v Speaker 1>we we we've seen so far, especially when you're opened again,

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<v Speaker 1>is that, you know, it's really really hard to get

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<v Speaker 1>people to change habits. But if you have something that

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<v Speaker 1>is more convenient and easier and so um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they don't go back. Like like we buy most of

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<v Speaker 1>our supermarket stuff online now miss me personally, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would never go back, Like, once I've seen it work,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just not going back. And the same goes for

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<v Speaker 1>something like Amazon. Right, there's a reason why we do

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<v Speaker 1>it because once we start doing it's it's incredibly convenient

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<v Speaker 1>and and the same goes for for buying wine online. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm curious about your demographic. Who do you have

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<v Speaker 1>a typical user, and if so, describe who they are

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<v Speaker 1>and what kind of buying do you typically see from them.

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<v Speaker 1>So so we we have to demillion users around the world,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's really really difficult for us to to say

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<v Speaker 1>what a typical user is um. Previously, I would say,

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<v Speaker 1>pre pandemic, it was people that were a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more into wine, not like not the high end user,

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<v Speaker 1>more the the higher end of the casual drinkers. But

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<v Speaker 1>now I think it's changed, Like we we see everybody

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<v Speaker 1>doing it now. We also see price points moving down.

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<v Speaker 1>That doesn't mean people dry, people buy a wine that's

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<v Speaker 1>less expensive. It just means that we're taking more from

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<v Speaker 1>the offline part and people are starting to buy less

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<v Speaker 1>expensive wines online now too. Full disclosure. I love the

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<v Speaker 1>you know app. I use it. I think what's really

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<v Speaker 1>cool about it um Honey, to be quite honest, is

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<v Speaker 1>I can be anywhere and if I have someone, I

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<v Speaker 1>can quick take a picture, I quick get some views,

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<v Speaker 1>I can buy it. Like it's just wonderful and it's

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<v Speaker 1>so easy. I do wonder too, like how sticky is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Once you've got somebody who's on the platform, do they

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<v Speaker 1>automatically become a buyer a shopper? Do they continue to

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<v Speaker 1>increase it? Like? How does it? How does it play out?

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<v Speaker 1>It varies quite a bit. It is obviously the app,

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<v Speaker 1>so you do lose a lot of people in the beginning,

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<v Speaker 1>but once people start going right after people have used

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<v Speaker 1>it for you one year, it just doesn't change like

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<v Speaker 1>once their own board have used it for one year.

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<v Speaker 1>That feels like it's a lifetime. We've been around for

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<v Speaker 1>ten years now so we have pretty good data on that,

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<v Speaker 1>so so the people that really appealed to and they

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<v Speaker 1>just keep going, so so that's amazing. Obviously we built

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<v Speaker 1>new features all the time and so on to make

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<v Speaker 1>it better and better. Is the US your best market?

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<v Speaker 1>Your fastest growing? Or where is it? US is by

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<v Speaker 1>far our biggest market commercially around Our sales are in

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<v Speaker 1>the US, so by far the biggest, not the fastest growing,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean relative to to the market, it's by far

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest. But but some other markets have started late.

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<v Speaker 1>This might be a strange, but actually France started relatively late. Really,

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<v Speaker 1>it took them a while, took scept us like we're

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<v Speaker 1>not French show, so they wouldn't accept us. But now

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<v Speaker 1>they love us so so we're happy with them now. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>so what are you gonna do with the money hundred

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<v Speaker 1>million that you guys have raised? How do you need

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<v Speaker 1>to spend it? And I am always curious for an

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<v Speaker 1>app like yours, what's your most expensive you know when

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<v Speaker 1>you go through the balanty, is it the people, is

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<v Speaker 1>it marketing? What's the most expensive item line item. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're very privileged in the way that we spend very

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<v Speaker 1>little money on marketing historically, right because we have twenty

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<v Speaker 1>thousand people that installed up every single day organically. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's a privilege when it comes to that that might

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<v Speaker 1>change in the future, just we we have a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more cash now, but but for us, it's all

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<v Speaker 1>about helping people drink better wine. So number one on

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<v Speaker 1>our list is really operating product and engineering just to

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<v Speaker 1>make the product even better, and a lot of that

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<v Speaker 1>is about using machine learning and AI to really learn

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<v Speaker 1>every single use. So you know, we know all these wines.

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<v Speaker 1>We have twelve million wines on there, and then we

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<v Speaker 1>have these fifty million research and one thing is giving

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<v Speaker 1>them ratings. But we want to give them personal ratings,

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<v Speaker 1>just like Netflix does. So we're launching something called match

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<v Speaker 1>for you. So once once she was scand of wine,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not just gonna see the ratings, also going to say,

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<v Speaker 1>you know it's eight nine and certainly chindibl like this wine,

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<v Speaker 1>so that we're very excited about it. That's really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really clever. Where are the areas in the world

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<v Speaker 1>that you're not yet in terms of geography that you

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<v Speaker 1>want to be, that you need to be. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think Asia has been a slower region for us. Usually

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<v Speaker 1>starts with the real wine lovers that start using it,

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<v Speaker 1>and then it's slow. Then it spreads after that, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's no doubt about like North America and even South

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<v Speaker 1>America and Europe our strongest places, Asia is lagging a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit after but we're starting to grow there now.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, no interesting, Um, and I'm also curious. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think I was just looking at some of the

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<v Speaker 1>numbers and at least some of our reporting. This recent

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<v Speaker 1>funding round million values you you guys between six and

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred million. Does that feel about right? That's a

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<v Speaker 1>good question. We have some bloom Brig analysts estimate that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm not kind of coming in further. Okay, fair enough,

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<v Speaker 1>fair enough, Maybe over a glass of wine we can

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it. Sometimes it's gonna take a lot of wine. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's fair a lot of good wine. Um, you're not

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<v Speaker 1>profitable yet, right, and probably not this year nor next.

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<v Speaker 1>Why if it's doing so well and you guys are

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<v Speaker 1>adding you know, I'm just curious. Actually, we were profitable,

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<v Speaker 1>so we so we did bring even as soon as

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<v Speaker 1>this hit, we broke even, and I honestly I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's also why we managed to really raise a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money. People say, wow, this business really really works.

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<v Speaker 1>The unigonomics are Charlotte. The growth is there. Let's put

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<v Speaker 1>some real money on this and see if we can

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<v Speaker 1>grow it even faster. Show. So we've really shown that

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<v Speaker 1>the business model of the Unigonomics are strong and that

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<v Speaker 1>profitability continues this year, next year. There's your pretty confident

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<v Speaker 1>of that. We're not Yeah, no, we're not planning to

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<v Speaker 1>do that because now we really want to invest right.

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<v Speaker 1>So so we've managed to show that, you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>all works, but now we're going to invest a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more fuel the growth. Got it? Got it? And so

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<v Speaker 1>what's the endgame for you guys? Do you plan to

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<v Speaker 1>I know, and I know you probably get asked these

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<v Speaker 1>questions a million times, but I have to ask you, um,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the endgame? Go it alone? Continue to grow

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<v Speaker 1>the business. You've just gotten another capital raised. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of money out there. There's also a pretty healthy

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<v Speaker 1>I p O market, you know, and it's been yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do you want to do it? I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's a good question. I think my answer has always

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<v Speaker 1>been and and and you know, we're closer to something

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<v Speaker 1>now obviously, but really build a sustainable business, also a

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<v Speaker 1>business that could stand alone. Right when you think about

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<v Speaker 1>the wine market being like almost like four hundred billion dollars,

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<v Speaker 1>If we get a slice of that, this could be

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<v Speaker 1>a really big sustainable business. So you know, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, someone might be interesting acquiring us, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think I p O is something I really like at

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<v Speaker 1>some point too well. And it sounds like, you know, honey,

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<v Speaker 1>from what you told me, is now that you've got

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<v Speaker 1>this money, but you said you did break even. You've

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<v Speaker 1>shown kind of the world that we can do this. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>so you've got some more money that you mentioned you

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<v Speaker 1>want to put into upgrading your product engineering and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that what you need ideally to kind of move

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<v Speaker 1>the platform in the business to the next level because

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<v Speaker 1>you've got a lot of users. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's also about like the thing about we

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<v Speaker 1>are a global business, right, we are actually in seventeen markets.

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<v Speaker 1>The marketplace open in seventeen markets, right, We're only two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred people. So we really want to go a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit deeper into each market there and increase our our

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<v Speaker 1>our foot our footprint in each single, each single market there.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that's very important for us. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>So before we go, what's your favorite rhine? Our favorite

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<v Speaker 1>few wines? That's you know, I've lived in California of

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<v Speaker 1>many years. I always, I must I must say I've

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<v Speaker 1>enjoyed a lot of you know, California caps and and

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<v Speaker 1>and peanuts. I'm back in Europe now, so I do

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<v Speaker 1>love champagne too, So a little bit of everything as

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<v Speaker 1>long as it has a good REVENE rating. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>fair enough, fair enough. Hey listen, I do you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you sound really optimistic, and I don't blame you. You

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<v Speaker 1>know you guys, are you know, on a growth spurt?

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<v Speaker 1>What does kind of worry you as you look at

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<v Speaker 1>the environment here? That is a good question, I think,

0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, with this Corona thing going. Although I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>worried about the habits we talked about earlier, I I

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<v Speaker 1>can get a little bit worried about the recession or

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<v Speaker 1>the economy being really really bad. Right. Usually we say

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<v Speaker 1>alcohol is relatively recession proof, but you know, that where

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<v Speaker 1>has been general not only for you know, but also

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<v Speaker 1>for you know, society. All Right, Gonna leave it there,

0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and that's fair enough. And I think that you know,

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.800
<v Speaker 1>you certainly mirror what we're hearing from some other folks.

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<v Speaker 1>And CEO that we talked to, honey, thank you so much,

0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:02.240
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it, honey. Zachariah sin he is the founder

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<v Speaker 1>of A Vino, joining us on the phone from Copenhagen

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<v Speaker 1>and just talking about their their latest capital raise. Uh.

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.400
<v Speaker 1>And he's of course CEO of that company as well.