Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2: It is Saturday, August twenty third, and actions speak louder
Speaker 2: than words. We've been told that our whole lives. And
Speaker 2: that's what Lyle Menindez was told yesterday, right before he
Speaker 2: was denied parole, just like his brother the day before.
Speaker 2: And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and
Speaker 2: TJ Special Guests today, Amy. That's funny, I'm king.
Speaker 3: It was even funnier that you just called me Amy.
Speaker 2: Well then, well I had to go with the welcome
Speaker 2: to Amy and TJ, so I had to continue.
Speaker 3: All right, you've never done that before. I'm just pointing out, but.
Speaker 2: It was see why are we doing this? Hey, everybody
Speaker 2: wall good things. She's back, huh uh. But no, I
Speaker 2: have a lot of folks know. Robes has been out
Speaker 2: the past few days since the podcast, dropping off a
Speaker 2: kid at college in Boulder, But was very much Robes
Speaker 2: while you were gone keeping an eye on this story.
Speaker 2: And isn't it the case, Robes that you felt momentum
Speaker 2: was on their side even for the past year plus, even.
Speaker 3: Absolutely with all of the different hurdles that they've been
Speaker 3: able to cross, so to speak, it felt like, yes,
Speaker 3: they there was a consensus building and specifically the LA
Speaker 3: District attorney before the elections. People seem to think that
Speaker 3: they had served their time for their crime, given the
Speaker 3: ages they were when they were committed. In addition to
Speaker 3: new evidence that came up that showed a pattern of
Speaker 3: abuse by the menandez brother's father, So there seemed to
Speaker 3: be reasons for or at least an explanation, a motive
Speaker 3: that was understandable, at least for perhaps why they did
Speaker 3: what they did. And so, yes, I was surprised. I
Speaker 3: was a little surprised.
Speaker 1: That they were both correct. So I.
Speaker 2: Think to your point, we have been watching Momentum Public
Speaker 2: Momentum documentaries, New AffA, Davits, new Information. You had a
Speaker 2: Daou there before he was kicked out. At least he
Speaker 2: was one leading the rallying prize saying yeah, so all
Speaker 2: of that, And then the parole hearing happened for Eric
Speaker 2: on Thursday. And when I heard that, I said, that
Speaker 2: makes perfect sense. When you hear a parole board, Y say, yes,
Speaker 2: folks out there are considering a whole different set of
Speaker 2: circumstances that we have to consider as a parole board.
Speaker 2: When I hear the parole board say we don't even
Speaker 2: we're not keeping you in prison because of what you
Speaker 2: did to your parents, is because of who you've been
Speaker 2: the past thirty years in prison, and despite what your
Speaker 2: endorsers and some of your celebrity endorsers are saying, you
Speaker 2: two have not been model prisoners.
Speaker 3: And you know what's interesting. In Lyle's parole board hearing yesterday,
Speaker 3: when they were talking to him about their decision, they
Speaker 3: talked about how they understood that at least there was
Speaker 3: an acknowledgment that perhaps part of the reason why they
Speaker 3: behaved the way they did, which was explained as entitled
Speaker 3: children basically behind bars, could have been because they had
Speaker 3: no hope of getting out. They had been sentenced to
Speaker 3: life in prison without the possibility of parole. It's only
Speaker 3: been in recent months that they've now been eligible, or
Speaker 3: even a month, right, how long has it been since
Speaker 3: they were It was a may re sentenced because of
Speaker 3: the ages they were at the time the crime was committed.
Speaker 3: That they were resentenced, which ben made them eligible for parole.
Speaker 3: So they finally got even a glimmer of hope that
Speaker 3: they could get out actually through parole a few months ago.
Speaker 3: So they acknowledged, we see that you perhaps felt like
Speaker 3: you had no incentive to behave well, But that doesn't
Speaker 3: matter because it's still reflective of who you are as
Speaker 3: a person, and.
Speaker 1: To that as well.
Speaker 2: On the cell phone usage, this has been going on
Speaker 2: a while and they knew that this might come up,
Speaker 2: and they knew the DA last year was trying to
Speaker 2: get them resentenced. The Lyle's most recent cell phone violation
Speaker 2: was March of.
Speaker 3: This year, right, and he had an explanation. Unlike his
Speaker 3: brother Eric, he claims that because they do get privileges,
Speaker 3: they do get phone privileges. I think through a tablet,
Speaker 3: but obviously those conversations are monitored and documented, so there's
Speaker 3: no privacy to them. And Lyle claims the reason why
Speaker 3: he needed a cell phone was because his conversations were
Speaker 3: being monitored and then part of what he was saying
Speaker 3: was being leaked to tabloids, so he was using that
Speaker 3: as an excuse. Hey, your prison guards or whoever's monitoring
Speaker 3: these lines are actually betraying my privacy and selling what
Speaker 3: I say to the tabloids.
Speaker 2: And who would ever buy that? Who is sitting there
Speaker 2: in your judgment, You just came up with an excuse.
Speaker 2: It's our fault that you decided to break the rule.
Speaker 3: That probably doesn't sit well. Now you should have just
Speaker 3: said you're right, I'm sorry, and so.
Speaker 2: Let's sell you exactly what did happen. Yes, folks, look,
Speaker 2: we thought Eric's was a long day. This one was
Speaker 2: even longer. An eleven hour. An eleven hour parole board hearing.
Speaker 2: These things, folks will tell you, usually say two to
Speaker 2: three hours, and even before Eric's on Thursday, that was
Speaker 2: the prediction it might be three hours. And again we
Speaker 2: remind you because of the rules out there. This is
Speaker 2: a parole board hearing. This isn't an open court hearing.
Speaker 2: There's no audio, there's no video, only one pool reporter,
Speaker 2: and that pool reporter cannot disseminate information until the thing
Speaker 2: is over. So we sat with zero information for eleven
Speaker 2: hours waiting to hear what happened. So what happened. Yes,
Speaker 2: they ultimately denied parole, denied parole for him, but he
Speaker 2: is eligible for parole again in three years, but there
Speaker 2: is an administrative review that can take place in a year,
Speaker 2: which could result then in him getting another parole board hearing,
Speaker 2: sooner than that three years could happen. Ultimately, in eighteen months,
Speaker 2: his brother Eric got the same deal as well. They're
Speaker 2: going to have these administrative reviews, So why robes the
Speaker 2: question is, and many of their reasons were the same
Speaker 2: as Eric's for why they're telling him he can't.
Speaker 1: Get out of prison.
Speaker 3: A lot of the testimony, I say testimony, but a
Speaker 3: lot of the questions directed at Lyle throughout the hearing
Speaker 3: were at the abuse he suffered at the hands of
Speaker 3: his father. They really went back as they did with
Speaker 3: Eric and dissected the crime itself, the why, and really
Speaker 3: trying to measure how sorry, truly sorry each brother was.
Speaker 3: Now with Lyle, he actually said something that Eric did not,
Speaker 3: and there were questions as to whether he learned or
Speaker 3: maybe he even practiced beforehand, because Eric got hung up
Speaker 3: when the parole board really went after him as to
Speaker 3: why he had to or felt like he had to
Speaker 3: kill his mother. If the abuse they suffered was at
Speaker 3: the hands of his father, why then did the mother
Speaker 3: have to die? And Eric really didn't have a good answer.
Speaker 3: So Lyle came prepped and look, he had made these
Speaker 3: accusations when he was being accused initially, but it was
Speaker 3: never corroborated, and I don't believe it actually ended up
Speaker 3: in trial but he said this on equivocally. He stated
Speaker 3: it multiple times. He claimed at yesterday's par board hearing
Speaker 3: that he was and they were sexually abused by their mother.
Speaker 3: He said it happened at the age of thirteen, and
Speaker 3: so he said he felt like he was consenting and
Speaker 3: he was embarrassed about it, and that's why he said
Speaker 3: he never told police about it initially because he felt
Speaker 3: like he was consenting because of his age.
Speaker 2: He even he's I think that surprised some of the
Speaker 2: folks on the pro board, and he had an entire
Speaker 2: psychological evaluation in review. The question is, well, why didn't
Speaker 2: you say this to somebody? Nobody asked and it sounded
Speaker 2: like something now that I don't know, Why is this
Speaker 2: coming up now? And what do you have an indication?
Speaker 2: What exactly was the direct question that was asked that
Speaker 2: prompted him to give this information.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it seemed as though it came
Speaker 3: within the question of why did you kill your mother?
Speaker 2: And this is but he's been asked why for a
Speaker 2: long time. That's I mean, that's you've had thirty six
Speaker 2: years to give this answer, and he gave it yesterday.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm missing something. And this was
Speaker 2: hinted at or in the past, but this was a
Speaker 2: moment there, it seemed in the parole war here.
Speaker 3: And it was a distinctive moment from when his brother
Speaker 3: Eric was asked the same question. Eric made no mention
Speaker 3: of being sexually abused. Now Eric is younger than Lyle,
Speaker 3: so we don't know where Eric stands on this, but
Speaker 3: Lyle said they both were sexually abused. But he specifically
Speaker 3: talked about his age and got into specifics that no
Speaker 3: one had heard before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he spoke.
Speaker 2: It was almost like he was sympathetic to his mother
Speaker 2: and his answer it sounded like he said she was
Speaker 2: with a fear that she had in some way as
Speaker 2: well in things he was trying to understand about her
Speaker 2: background and her upbringing.
Speaker 1: That. So, yeah, this was all he got.
Speaker 2: Complex and a mess and a family mess and just
Speaker 2: a tragedy from start to finish.
Speaker 3: It really the darkness and the dark It just was
Speaker 3: really and he talked. He got really specific about his
Speaker 3: father's abuse and saying it happened at a very young age.
Speaker 3: And he said that when it ended, when he told
Speaker 3: or asked to sleep in his nieces or sorry, his
Speaker 3: it was his cousin's room, his niece's room, some other
Speaker 3: female relative's room, because he said, my dad touches me,
Speaker 3: and so he told a relative. He said, once he
Speaker 3: told a relative, it never happened again. But then he
Speaker 3: said he felt a loss that his dad didn't love
Speaker 3: him as much, or that somehow he wasn't his special
Speaker 3: son or his special boy that his father called him.
Speaker 3: So he felt rejected and all the complexities that come
Speaker 3: with that. So he really got into a lot of
Speaker 3: his psychological the impact on him and what he was
Speaker 3: thinking at the time and how it affected him.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people can be sympathetic
Speaker 2: to a certain degree about that. But what the parole
Speaker 2: board is having to deal with really is what rehabilitation
Speaker 2: and your past behavior and how likely we have to
Speaker 2: make a decision to put you back out on the streets,
Speaker 2: to recommend if the governor is going to put you
Speaker 2: back out in the streets, you just have to take
Speaker 2: what kind of risk is this person? And they keep
Speaker 2: talking rogues about your if you cannot follow the rules
Speaker 2: in here, we have like zero faith in you doing
Speaker 2: it out in society.
Speaker 3: And the examples they have leading up and in the
Speaker 3: days and weeks after their parents' death was nothing but
Speaker 3: lies and spending like copious amounts of cash after their
Speaker 3: parents were brutally murdered by them knowing that they had
Speaker 3: been cut off earlier for whatever reason financially, so they
Speaker 3: were struggling financially. So there are all of these like, yes,
Speaker 3: this all sounds and could be true about this abuse,
Speaker 3: of course, but it doesn't excuse the way you behaved
Speaker 3: leading up to and certainly in the days and weeks
Speaker 3: after your parents' death, and then all of the lies.
Speaker 3: Lyle was the one who like repeatedly lied to detectives
Speaker 3: and investigators, And so they said, if you have a
Speaker 3: history and a pattern of deceit, how can we trust you?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: You know, they has some pretty strong words for the
Speaker 2: Lyle characteristics of anti social personality traits like deception, minimization,
Speaker 2: and rule breaking that lie beneath that positive surface. I mean,
Speaker 2: they spoke of him like a guy like you're going
Speaker 2: and teaching a class and telling people how to be
Speaker 2: good citizens in here and then leave them and go
Speaker 2: back to your cell and continue a pattern of violating rules.
Speaker 2: Wasn't there a six year stretch? They said he had
Speaker 2: a cell phone, yes, the whole like he was breaking rules,
Speaker 2: not on a one off for this, or that he
Speaker 2: was a repeat violator.
Speaker 3: Yep, of the rules. Yes. And it's interesting because they
Speaker 3: did say that they found that his remorse was genuine,
Speaker 3: so they did give him that nod. And there was
Speaker 3: a different tone in how they talked to Lyle versus
Speaker 3: how they talked to Eric. It's almost like they wanted
Speaker 3: to believe him and they were encouraging him to be
Speaker 3: the person he appears to be. But there was also
Speaker 3: this acknowledgement that that all could be a mask of
Speaker 3: deception and they just weren't sure who the real Lyle was.
Speaker 3: I mean, the parole commissioner specifically told him, don't ever
Speaker 3: not have hope. This denial isn't the end. But I
Speaker 3: thought it was interesting that she said, this is a
Speaker 3: way for you to spend some time to demonstrate to
Speaker 3: practice what you preach, who you are and who you
Speaker 3: want to be. And notably she said, don't be somebody
Speaker 3: different behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: See I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, if he knows he has a possibility for
Speaker 2: review in a year, he is what knitting Christmas sweaters
Speaker 2: for all the staff, right? Now, why wouldn't he he's
Speaker 2: the best. Obviously he's gonna be on his best behavior.
Speaker 2: So how if this is a guy that you're already
Speaker 2: saying has a history of deception and manipulation, and isn't
Speaker 2: he just gonna go do.
Speaker 1: What he has to do?
Speaker 3: But oddly it seemed as though they were telling him, Hey,
Speaker 3: they were dangling a carrot. Just be good for a year,
Speaker 3: you'll be up for review, and then you can get
Speaker 3: out in a year and a half. I thought that
Speaker 3: was interesting.
Speaker 1: We just don't want this to be on us.
Speaker 2: Kind of that's wild. But still, after all of this,
Speaker 2: he's been denied, his brother has been denied. But would
Speaker 2: you believe he still has a chance to get out
Speaker 2: of prison, even immediately? And the power to do that
Speaker 2: lies in one man in Sacramento.
Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,
Speaker 3: where we are talking about Lyle Menendez. His parole has
Speaker 3: been denied, despite the Parole Board acknowledging they believed his
Speaker 3: remorse was genuine. We heard from Lyle directly yesterday, with
Speaker 3: tears in his eyes, saying, my life has been defined
Speaker 3: by extreme violence. I wanted to be defined by something else.
Speaker 3: He said, I am so sorry to everyone and I
Speaker 3: will be forever sorry. And the commissioner said, we believe you.
Speaker 2: Did I see as well? He spoke of he's a
Speaker 2: big brother like he Yes, he led this and spoke
Speaker 2: of I hadn't seen that anywhere before. Actually that he
Speaker 2: almost felt bad as a big brother for letting down.
Speaker 1: His little brother.
Speaker 3: And he talked about the violence that he saw his
Speaker 3: brother and dure at the hands of both his mother
Speaker 3: and his father, and felt very defensive in that regard
Speaker 3: for not being able to protect him and the family.
Speaker 2: Again, I think it was he had a dozen or
Speaker 2: so folks speaking there for him, family and friends, mostly family.
Speaker 2: But they have been very supportive of both of these men. Now,
Speaker 2: I haven't been pushing for them to get out of prison.
Speaker 2: They put out a statement after Eric was denying, saying
Speaker 2: they were hopeful for what was going to happen with Lyle.
Speaker 2: Obviously it didn't go that way for Lyle, but they
Speaker 2: spoke again Roams and this is for me still extraordinary,
Speaker 2: this family that is speaking their family members were murdered
Speaker 2: and they are pushing for the murderers to be let
Speaker 2: out of prison. Yes, I know their family members as well,
Speaker 2: but this has just been extraordinary.
Speaker 3: Hey, there was only one family member that I can
Speaker 3: think of who had publicly been against the brothers ever
Speaker 3: being released, and that was their mother, Kitty's brother. Well,
Speaker 3: he passed away earlier this year. So the only dissenter
Speaker 3: from the Menendez family has passed on. And so it
Speaker 3: appears that every living member of their families is in
Speaker 3: support of them coming home. And one of them older
Speaker 3: and aging and cancer, Yeah, has cancer and said I
Speaker 3: want to be able to spend time with my family
Speaker 3: before I passed, you.
Speaker 2: Know, And I just remember this. I wish I could
Speaker 2: give him credit for a prosecutor. I spoke about this
Speaker 2: in a previous episode. I just someone who was a
Speaker 2: federal prosecutor said, in all of my days in this career,
Speaker 2: I have never been to a parole hearing with a
Speaker 2: family of the person murdered is pushing for the murderer
Speaker 2: to get out of prison. Said, never ever have I
Speaker 2: seen that. I know it's a family connection here, but
Speaker 2: it's still extraordinary to see how supportive they are and
Speaker 2: how much they're pushing it.
Speaker 3: Is I mean, if you think about it, because people say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: well they're family too, but no, imagine if your brother,
Speaker 3: if your sister was murdered by their children. That doesn't
Speaker 3: mean you necessarily are praising or supporting their children. You're
Speaker 3: probably pretty damn pissed at your niece or your name.
Speaker 2: We see this all the time on all the true
Speaker 2: crime absolutely absolute parents and whatever, they will break down
Speaker 2: a relationship based on somesh like this.
Speaker 3: Especially when you're talking cousins and Anne's there's not it's right,
Speaker 3: it's a little bit removed, and so yes, if you
Speaker 3: took away another beloved family member, yes, So it just
Speaker 3: shows that there's at least some understanding, it appears from
Speaker 3: the family members as to why, Because if there wasn't
Speaker 3: a good answer for the why, I don't think there'd
Speaker 3: ever be this level of forgiveness or support. It's because
Speaker 3: they understand the why, and that's been a huge part
Speaker 3: of the push to have these brothers not exonerated, but
Speaker 3: at least allowed out based on the time they have
Speaker 3: served for their crime.
Speaker 2: We are incredibly proud is what the family says here
Speaker 2: in their statement. We are incredibly proud of how Eric
Speaker 2: and Lyle showed up with honesty, accountability, and integrity. We
Speaker 2: know they are good men. Who have done the work
Speaker 2: to rehabilitate and are remorseful. We love them unconditionally and
Speaker 2: will continue to stand by them on the journey ahead.
Speaker 2: That's man, that's you want a family like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And they said they're disappointed, but they're also not discouraged.
Speaker 2: And they also know they have the options are dwindling,
Speaker 2: but they still have options because of how this thing
Speaker 2: works out their ropes. It wasn't just the parole board.
Speaker 2: They can make a recommendation, but ultimately they are not
Speaker 2: the ones who would spring them from jail.
Speaker 3: Yes, Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, actually has two
Speaker 3: different ways. He could not approve so Actually, in California,
Speaker 3: the state law says that the governor has to approve,
Speaker 3: basically ratify, so to speak, the parole board's decision, or
Speaker 3: he can disapprove it. He can throw it out and
Speaker 3: he could set the brothers free, or he could give
Speaker 3: them paroles so to speak, so he could overturn the
Speaker 3: recommendations of this parole board. He could also because the
Speaker 3: brothers have put in a bid for clemency, so the
Speaker 3: governor also has the ability to extend clemency to the brothers. However,
Speaker 3: Most people point to the fact that it appears as
Speaker 3: if Newsom will be running for president. Oh, I don't
Speaker 3: think that's and that might not bode well for him.
Speaker 3: It certainly could be used against him. If we want
Speaker 3: a president who's tough on crime, who's tough for us,
Speaker 3: for America on national security, you really want that person
Speaker 3: to have been someone who overturned or went against a
Speaker 3: parole board's recommendation and let two double murderers out. So
Speaker 3: a lot of people say, because of his presidential aspirations,
Speaker 3: it's highly unlikely he's going to do either of those
Speaker 3: two things. So the other opportunity, with the other chances
Speaker 3: their brothers have of getting out, is a new trial.
Speaker 2: And they have made that request. Is that I don't
Speaker 2: know the status of it. I don't know when they
Speaker 2: are going to hear about their conviction being reviewed.
Speaker 3: This is based on the new evidence. There is somebody
Speaker 3: out there who was with a boy band who Manuda Yes,
Speaker 3: who said that they were abused by the Menendez brother's father.
Speaker 3: So that's some of the new evidence. And then there's
Speaker 3: this letter that Lyle wrote to his cousin before the
Speaker 3: murders happened about being sexually abused, so there is documentation
Speaker 3: about the abuse and given their ages, so that is
Speaker 3: part of the reason this new information, this new evidence
Speaker 3: that could be that is the determining factress to whether
Speaker 3: or not they would get a new trial.
Speaker 2: And that's why I just don't know the timeline on
Speaker 2: that one. As far as Gavin Newsom goes, I think
Speaker 2: what the pro war has decided, I think this part
Speaker 2: of it is done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's one hundred and twenty days. I think he
Speaker 3: has to make a decision on whether or not he
Speaker 3: approves it or disapproves.
Speaker 1: It's one of the Iowa caucuses.
Speaker 2: I knew you were kidding, but yes, this has been
Speaker 2: a heck of a journey and it's not over.
Speaker 1: It is not by any.
Speaker 2: Stretch, So so quickly appreciate you as always hanging with
Speaker 2: us and trusting us to give you updates about all
Speaker 2: that's going on and Robes.
Speaker 1: Good to have you back, dere Letting.
Speaker 3: Great to be back again. Thanks everyone for listening. We
Speaker 3: hope you have a great rest of your weekend.