Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WOKF Daily with Me
Speaker 1: your Girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow is the last date of vote. It is election Day,
Speaker 1: and today I wanted to bring you a really hard
Speaker 1: conversation with friend of the show Danielle Campomore, who has
Speaker 1: been an abortion rights advocate, a repro justice advocate, writer
Speaker 1: for a very long time with this show, and Danielle,
Speaker 1: in our conversation, will talk about what it is like
Speaker 1: for her right now to be pregnant with her third
Speaker 1: child in South Dakota, where she is moved to be
Speaker 1: closer to family. And there were parts of this interview
Speaker 1: and conversation that really just gut punched me because the
Speaker 1: fear that Danielle has and what she lays out as
Speaker 1: her birth plan, no woman, no person should have to
Speaker 1: go through. And it just I appreciated her conversation this
Speaker 1: interview so much in really moving what has been happening
Speaker 1: in the headlines into a real space with a person
Speaker 1: that I've known for years. So as some of you
Speaker 1: are listening, you may have already voted. Others are gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, be the traditionalist and head to the polls
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. For family. For friends that may not have
Speaker 1: voted yet, please share this episode with them so they
Speaker 1: can understand what the stakes are if they still, for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, find themselves on the fence. Coming up next,
Speaker 1: my conversation with writer activist Danielle Campomore. Folks, it has
Speaker 1: been a while since I've had the opportunity to speak
Speaker 1: with our friend, freelance writer reporter Danielle Campomore, who if
Speaker 1: you've been listening to WOKF over the years, Danielle has
Speaker 1: provided such incredible reporting, analysis, and insight into the abortion
Speaker 1: movement and into reproductive justice. And Danielle, we've spoken to
Speaker 1: you a number of times since the overturning of Robi Wade,
Speaker 1: but not since you have left New York to move
Speaker 1: back to South Dakota to be closer to your family.
Speaker 1: South Dakota being a just full on abortion band state
Speaker 1: and you yourself are currently pregnant with your third congratulations,
Speaker 1: Thank you. And I want to start off with how
Speaker 1: does it feel to be back and the idea that
Speaker 1: you were pregnant in a red state very different than
Speaker 1: I'm assuming your other two pregnancies with your sons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very strange. We didn't take the
Speaker 2: decision to move back lightly. My grandfather, the matriarch of
Speaker 2: our family, was diagnosed with Alzheimer's last November, and then
Speaker 2: he fell and broke his hip, and now he's fallen
Speaker 2: and broke his arm and has had surgeries. So when
Speaker 2: we kind of realized the state of his health and
Speaker 2: what the diagnosis was for him, my husband and I
Speaker 2: sat down and made the conscious, difficult decision that, you know,
Speaker 2: we can't get that time back with family, and legislators
Speaker 2: be damned. We just didn't want to lose that time.
Speaker 2: I want my boys to grow up around my grandfather
Speaker 2: and I want memories with him. But we knew what
Speaker 2: that meant. And I actually found out I was pregnant
Speaker 2: the day we flew out to look at houses here,
Speaker 2: and so we had to have another really difficult conversation
Speaker 2: about is it safe for us to move here? Is
Speaker 2: it safe for me to be pregnant here? And the
Speaker 2: answer was no, it's not safe, and so we started
Speaker 2: looking at places nearby in Minnesota, And so that's what
Speaker 2: I do now. As I drive to Minnesota, it's about
Speaker 2: an hour away from my home, an hour and a
Speaker 2: half from where my children go to school for prenattle care,
Speaker 2: and that's where I'll give birth in a state that
Speaker 2: I don't call home. And even now, I mean I
Speaker 2: told you a little earlier, I'm waiting to hear from
Speaker 2: my physician. I'm having a difficult pregnancy. It is my third,
Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven. It's automatically a high risk pregnancy. I'm
Speaker 2: constantly sick. We've had some pre term labor scares and
Speaker 2: incidences where she's trying to make sure that I can
Speaker 2: carry this pregnancy further so that it's safer. And so
Speaker 2: with all that just comes so much fear and anxiety
Speaker 2: that am I going to be able to get to
Speaker 2: my doctor on time? Am I going to be able
Speaker 2: to have someone come watch my children? Can I drive
Speaker 2: my self? Even what does that look like? And I'm
Speaker 2: someone of privilege, I actually can leave. People in this
Speaker 2: state can't. And so this is the only state with
Speaker 2: a total abortion band with no exception for rape and incest,
Speaker 2: that has abortion on the ballot this November to reinstate
Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade era type protections for abortion care to
Speaker 2: bring abortion care back to this state. And so that's
Speaker 2: why I'm speaking to you, And so I'm writing so
Speaker 2: much about what's what I'm currently experiencing because this should
Speaker 2: not be happening, and the anger that I feel, on
Speaker 2: top of all the fear and anxiety is making an
Speaker 2: already difficult, very wanted pregnancy all the more challenging. And
Speaker 2: it really should not be that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Danielle, my heart goes out to you and your
Speaker 1: family the decision to go home to South Dakota. You know,
Speaker 1: we oftentimes hear a lot of people that sit comfortably
Speaker 1: on the coasts saying to people, well, just leave your state,
Speaker 1: just leave your state, as if it is something that
Speaker 1: is easy. And you knowingly went into this red state
Speaker 1: because of family, because of the fact that we don't
Speaker 1: have an infinite amount of time and what does it
Speaker 1: mean to raise your children and your family in close proximity.
Speaker 1: Like you said, you don't get that time back. You
Speaker 1: don't get those relationships and those memories back. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about what it has been like over the last
Speaker 1: several weeks of your pregnancy, having to usher back and
Speaker 1: forth between your home in South Dakota and your doctors
Speaker 1: in Minnesota. Have you gone to a doctor at all
Speaker 1: in South Dakota.
Speaker 2: No, as of right now I've not gone to a
Speaker 2: position at all in South Dakota. I've made it a
Speaker 2: point to actively do everything that I can to make
Speaker 2: sure that I don't have to, especially because in order
Speaker 2: for us to make this move as soon as possible
Speaker 2: so that I could be here for my grandfather and
Speaker 2: my grandmother, my husband still works on the East coast,
Speaker 2: gone for four weeks out of the year. So I
Speaker 2: am here knowing that I don't have an advocate, kind
Speaker 2: of built in via my husband that if I am
Speaker 2: going to go to a doctor here under the worst circumstances,
Speaker 2: I will not have someone there to make sure that
Speaker 2: they advocate for me if I am uncapable of advocating
Speaker 2: for myself. So no, I've not seen a South Dkota physician.
Speaker 2: And honestly, it's not that easy here. We are close
Speaker 2: to Sue Falls. I'm grateful for that, but there are
Speaker 2: Objian deserts and Sioux Falls now because of what is
Speaker 2: happening or in South Dakota state, excuse me, because of
Speaker 2: the abortion band. Physicians, just like in other states, don't
Speaker 2: want to come here. They want to go to a
Speaker 2: place where they won't face criminal prosecution if they uphold
Speaker 2: their hippocratic oath, and South Dakota is one of those
Speaker 2: states where if you are seen for miscarriage, mismanagement care,
Speaker 2: if you have a complicated pregnancy, doctors are afraid to
Speaker 2: treat you, or you can't find a doctor at all.
Speaker 2: So in terms of traveling, it's just a lot of driving.
Speaker 2: I have created, thankfully again, I'm very privileged network of
Speaker 2: the family members that I do have here to call
Speaker 2: summer hour two hours away, but can come watch my boys.
Speaker 2: And then it's I take my computer with me to
Speaker 2: the hospital. I work from there. I've worked from there now,
Speaker 2: I think more times than I've worked from home, just
Speaker 2: because it eats up, on average, four or five hours
Speaker 2: of my day to drive there to have even a
Speaker 2: routine prenatal appointment, let alone going there again because I'm
Speaker 2: in danger of preterm labor or I'm dealing with nausea,
Speaker 2: and they're trying to get certain things under control. So
Speaker 2: it's a lot of what I call kind of like
Speaker 2: this tetris of moving around my schedule and my children
Speaker 2: and making sure that I have childcare is probably the
Speaker 2: number one most important thing, and that's kind of what's frustrating,
Speaker 2: and I get so angry, and then even from members
Speaker 2: of my own family are kind of like, well, is
Speaker 2: this really necessary? Do you have to do all this?
Speaker 2: You could just go see a doctor, and you know,
Speaker 2: chances are maybe I could go to see a physician
Speaker 2: here and nothing happens, and I have a totally routine,
Speaker 2: normal labor delivery, pregnancy. But that is rolling the dice.
Speaker 2: There's no if fans or butts about it, and everyone
Speaker 2: will talk about how these are not necessary, these circumstances.
Speaker 2: You know that I don't need to be driving, that
Speaker 2: I don't need to be this stressed out or this worried,
Speaker 2: But when it's your life, the alternative seems like such
Speaker 2: an unfathomable risk. I have two children, I have family members,
Speaker 2: and it's separate from that, separate from being a mom.
Speaker 2: I have my own life, like I would like to
Speaker 2: keep living just for myself, you know, separate from being
Speaker 2: a parent. And so it was. It's some thing that
Speaker 2: I find really frustrating is that we hear all these
Speaker 2: stories about women bleeding out, women losing their ability to
Speaker 2: ever have children again because of doctors delaying care, denying care,
Speaker 2: women dying out of Georgia. For every one of those
Speaker 2: horrible stories that should be told. There are also other
Speaker 2: stories of this, of people being put under constraints and
Speaker 2: more stress that who knows, could very well be affecting
Speaker 2: my pregnancy, and they shouldn't be all under the name
Speaker 2: of being pro life, and it's the exact opposite of that,
Speaker 2: And so I think that's why it's important for these
Speaker 2: stories to be told as well, to show the spectrum
Speaker 2: of harm that is being caused, from even a routine
Speaker 2: prenatal visit that ends up being four hours long because
Speaker 2: of travel, to someone being told to go bleed in
Speaker 2: the parking lot. All of this is harm being caused
Speaker 2: by abortion bands, and none of it is okay.
Speaker 1: What does your word it's too much? Please just say that.
Speaker 1: What is the plan for when you go into labor?
Speaker 1: Is it for you to be in Minnesota, like around
Speaker 1: or before your due date? Or like what does that
Speaker 1: look like? Because I can't imagine driving in labor an
Speaker 1: hour and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as of right now, the plan is to do
Speaker 2: just that. If I go into labor early enough, you know,
Speaker 2: if I catch it early enough, definitely not a wait
Speaker 2: around type situation. But then it's to again call on
Speaker 2: family and friends. I have a cousin near and dear
Speaker 2: to my heart. She lives two hours away her mother
Speaker 2: and father in law who I'm not related to, but
Speaker 2: her mother and father in law live closer. They would
Speaker 2: perhaps come watch my children so I could drive until
Speaker 2: she can come get them, or perhaps one of them
Speaker 2: stays and they drive me if I can't drive. So
Speaker 2: it's just relying on this patch work of people to
Speaker 2: hopefully step in if they can, and the event that
Speaker 2: my husband's not here. If my husband's here, then hopefully
Speaker 2: either he can help get the kids situated and drive
Speaker 2: me and we'll be there together. But that kind of
Speaker 2: remains to be seen too, So it's a lot of Again,
Speaker 2: you just kind of hope that you have enough time,
Speaker 2: and that is pretty indicative of what it's like to
Speaker 2: be pregnant in the United States right now in a
Speaker 2: post real world. Is whether you are looking to end
Speaker 2: your unwanted pregnancy or you're looking to carry a pregnancy
Speaker 2: to term and give birth in a safe environment with
Speaker 2: a physician who's not going to be criminalized. You just
Speaker 2: hope you have enough time. You have enough time to
Speaker 2: get to where you need to be, because not every
Speaker 2: place is safe anymore. And so in that way, it
Speaker 2: is something that can't be understated. Abortion care and prenatal care,
Speaker 2: birth care, they're all connected because you are all under
Speaker 2: a time constraint in you're all hoping for more time,
Speaker 2: buying for more time, especially when people are attacking the
Speaker 2: physicians and healthcare providers who could give you the life
Speaker 2: saving care that you may need.
Speaker 1: Have you had the ability and I know through your freelancing,
Speaker 1: talk to either physicians in South Dakota that have left
Speaker 1: the state or that are still there about the toll
Speaker 1: that it's taken on them. And do you have a
Speaker 1: network of other pregnant people in the state that you
Speaker 1: kind of because I can hear it in your voice, Daniel,
Speaker 1: the emotional toll of all of this. You know, everybody says, oh,
Speaker 1: when you're you know you're pregnant, like, you know, try
Speaker 1: not to stress the baby out. In both I can't
Speaker 1: think of a more stressful fucking time to have, you know,
Speaker 1: than now for anyone to be pregnant, regardless of where
Speaker 1: they are. But then on top of that, being in
Speaker 1: a state that you can't feel safe in. What have
Speaker 1: those conversations been, like I have I've.
Speaker 2: Talked to a lot of people on the ground, a
Speaker 2: lot of grassroots organizers who are fighting for Amendment SHEI
Speaker 2: here in South Dakota, that is the ballot measure that
Speaker 2: will essentially put Roe v. Wade in the state's constitution.
Speaker 2: I've talked to physicians who have not left but are afraid,
Speaker 2: who say that they're not sure, just like physicians in
Speaker 2: other states, They're just not sure when they can intervene
Speaker 2: and it be safe to do so without the risk
Speaker 2: of potentially being held in criminal court. It's a felony
Speaker 2: here in the state of South Dakota to provide abortion
Speaker 2: care in any other circumstance, then if a person is
Speaker 2: in danger of dying, But again, how dying is dying
Speaker 2: enough is the question now on every physician's mind, which
Speaker 2: is absurd, and so it's a scary environment for people.
Speaker 2: At the same time, Unfortunately, like I mentioned, you do
Speaker 2: have others who aren't awake enough to realize how dire
Speaker 2: this is and tell it happens to them their loved one,
Speaker 2: or they read about someone actually physically dying from an
Speaker 2: abortion band like in Georgia, and it's frustrated that even
Speaker 2: in those instances, and I know you saw this too, Danielle.
Speaker 2: Then you have the anti abortion movement blame the women
Speaker 2: who died for the outcome, and so there's a lot
Speaker 2: of denial and a lot of again, this is you
Speaker 2: just being hysterical. It really isn't this bad. And that's
Speaker 2: what we're combating here in South Dakota, and I think
Speaker 2: across the nation. That's what the referendum really is in
Speaker 2: this election, is that yes, it really is this bad.
Speaker 2: It really does impact people in ways both big and small.
Speaker 2: And you're right. I mean again, the stress, the anxiety,
Speaker 2: the constant worry, having to plan more, having to travel more,
Speaker 2: as you get more pregnant, all those things become more
Speaker 2: difficult to handle on top of everyday life. And again,
Speaker 2: this is a choice that I made because at the
Speaker 2: end of the day too, I want to be there
Speaker 2: for my family. I want to be there so that
Speaker 2: my sons can remember their great grandfather. I want to
Speaker 2: be there so that when the incomes I can say
Speaker 2: that I got all the time that I could and
Speaker 2: not wishing for time for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: And these are decisions that shouldn't be impacted by a
Speaker 2: legislature or a ban, or a Supreme court or a
Speaker 2: president of the United States who has no idea who
Speaker 2: I am or what my family's going through, and yet
Speaker 2: are in the room when these decisions are being made
Speaker 2: in a way because we have to take into accountany's laws.
Speaker 2: And so I think that as a mix of so
Speaker 2: many people sounding the alarm, physicians, people on the ground, women,
Speaker 2: their partners, and then also people who are plugging their
Speaker 2: ears and saying it's not so bad. It really isn't
Speaker 2: what I see and hear, and are deciding again to
Speaker 2: live in this alternative reality that Trump has continued to perpetuate,
Speaker 2: that the GOP continues to perpetuate so that they can
Speaker 2: sleep at night while the rest of us just try
Speaker 2: to again buy as much time as we can to
Speaker 2: make sure that ourselves and our families are safe.
Speaker 1: I mean, they sleep at night, why the rest of
Speaker 1: us live in the nightmare that they created for us.
Speaker 1: I think that what is extraordinary is that people only
Speaker 1: thought about abortion, and I think a very siloed manner, like, oh,
Speaker 1: that woman over there, she doesn't want to be responsible,
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to have a kid. That's why we
Speaker 1: need to do away with abortion. I think that we
Speaker 1: have done and I mean, like the collective we have
Speaker 1: done a terrible job of explaining reproductive care and that
Speaker 1: a part of reproductive care is also access to abortion
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, like the fact that there
Speaker 1: are women now, one of the most famous being Chrissy
Speaker 1: Teagan who realized that when she was miscarrying, the procedure
Speaker 1: that the doctor is used on her to save her
Speaker 1: life was in fact an abortion. But because you don't know,
Speaker 1: because that word is not being said, and because doctors
Speaker 1: in blue states are moving in a way or have
Speaker 1: always moved in a way where it's just like, we're
Speaker 1: going to do what is necessary to save this person
Speaker 1: that is in front of us, to save their lives.
Speaker 1: So we're not going through the particular saying that what
Speaker 1: we're doing is abortion care. Right. Do you find that
Speaker 1: that they're needed to or their needs to be still
Speaker 1: more encompassing education for all people to understand the necessity
Speaker 1: around abortion.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think you really hit the nail on
Speaker 2: the head is that the collective week, especially those in
Speaker 2: the media, have really done a poor job and have
Speaker 2: kind of kowtowed to anti abortion narratives using their language
Speaker 2: and really kind of hyper focusing on a specific group
Speaker 2: of individuals who seek abortion care. The majority of people
Speaker 2: who have abortions or parents already they have at least
Speaker 2: when child at home. And then yes, abortion care is
Speaker 2: also miscarriage management. It's also to save the life of
Speaker 2: a person if they have an e topic pregnant, and
Speaker 2: see it is also in a lot of instances to
Speaker 2: preserve fertility if you have a complicated pregnancy that's going
Speaker 2: to end in a catastrophic way. And it also, honestly
Speaker 2: is there to provide peace of mind for those like
Speaker 2: me who I am carrying a very wanted pregnancy. I'm
Speaker 2: very excited about my pregnancy, but I want to know
Speaker 2: that when I go and see my doctor that my
Speaker 2: life matters and that she will put my life first.
Speaker 2: And when your experience a pregnancy, and so much is unknown,
Speaker 2: and it is a major medical event, and there can
Speaker 2: be complications that arise that no one can foresee, you
Speaker 2: search for any peace of mind possible. You get it
Speaker 2: in ultrasounds hopefully, sometimes you get it in tests, and
Speaker 2: you definitely get it from your physician. And so abortion
Speaker 2: care is part of that peace of mind and that
Speaker 2: autonomy that a pregnant person desperately clings to. When so
Speaker 2: much of what their body is going through is out
Speaker 2: of their control. I mean that alone, when you talk
Speaker 2: about the mental health of a person living in a
Speaker 2: country with a maternal mental health crisis, is also just
Speaker 2: as valuable, and yet we don't talk about it in
Speaker 2: these ways. So yeah, I think we need to do
Speaker 2: a better job. And one of the ways we do
Speaker 2: that as centering people who've had abortions and the myriad
Speaker 2: of ways in which abortion care exists. We sent our
Speaker 2: physicians who've provided abortions and myriad of ways in which
Speaker 2: they needed to care for their patients, and we stop
Speaker 2: using anti abortion rhetoric in language that has unfortunately been
Speaker 2: very very persuasive, and I think that's where you're getting
Speaker 2: so many, even Republicans. Well, that's not an abortionate treated
Speaker 2: in actopic pregnancy, that's not an abortion. No, it is,
Speaker 2: and we need to start speaking correctly and with a
Speaker 2: full throat and our chests out about exactly what this
Speaker 2: care encompasses, because it is vital to safe pregnancies.
Speaker 1: Danielle, I can't thank you enough for all your thoughtful
Speaker 1: analysis and like your guidance over the years in educating
Speaker 1: me as well as my audience about reproductive justice, about abortion.
Speaker 1: That can't thank you enough, and honestly, you know, sending
Speaker 1: you prayers and really good vibes for the final weeks
Speaker 1: of your pregnancy and for safe delivery.
Speaker 2: No, thank you, my friend, Thank you for always speaking
Speaker 2: out about this topic and centering the people that are
Speaker 2: impacted by it. We are not an island, as much
Speaker 2: as it kind of feels that way right now, and
Speaker 2: I think together there is a sea change coming and
Speaker 2: I am very very hopeful both for this state via
Speaker 2: this abortion amendment, but nationwide so from our lips to
Speaker 2: our Lord and Savior Beyonce's years, hopefully things will get
Speaker 2: get a little bit.
Speaker 1: Better, get a little bit better. Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Yes, you too.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on wollkf
Speaker 1: as always, power to the people and to all the people.
Speaker 1: Power up woke and stay woke as fuck.