1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld. On Wednesday, the Congressional Budget 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: Office released their projections about the national debt. The United 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: States has on track to add nineteen trillion dollars in 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: new debt over ten years due to rising interest rates 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: and spending bills adding to deficits. The new forecast project 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: a one point four trillion dollars gap this year alone. 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Think about that one point four trillion dollars this year alone, 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: between what the government spends and what it takes in 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: from tax revenues. Over the next ten years, deficits will 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: average two trillion dollars annually as tax receipts fail to 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: keep pace with the rising cost of Social Security and 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: Medicare benefits for retiring baby boomers. My guest today is 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: proposing a solution to this ballooning debt problem. He's introduced 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: House Resolution nineteen, proposing a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: acquiring that each agency in department's funding is justified. I'm 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guest, Congressman Scott Perry. He's 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: a combat veteran and has represented the people of the 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: tenth Congressional District of Pennsylvania since twenty thirteen. He presently 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: serves on the US House Committees on Transportation and Infrastructure, Oversight, 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: and Foreign Affairs, and is chairman of the House Freedom Caucus. 21 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: He retired at the rank of brigadier general in twenty 22 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: nineteen after nearly forty years in uniform. He served three 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: terms in the Pennsylvania General Assembly. Has a bachelor's degree 24 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: from penn State University in business management and a master's 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: in strategic studies from the US Army War College at 26 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: Carlisle Scott. Welcome and thank you for joining me on 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: News World. Well, mister speaker, it is awesome to be 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: with you, one of the deep and critical thinkers of 29 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: our time who has found solutions to intractable problems in 30 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: his own right. And so, as you know, and I 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: don't have to tell your audience, there are many of 32 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: us who reach out to you during these periods of 33 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: time to seek your input and guidance on how we 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: get through this. And I think one of the key 35 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: things that you mentioned there the numbers. People's eyes glaze over. 36 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: They can't even fathom a trillion of anything. It is 37 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: so unbelievable when you think about it, takes like four 38 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: trillion years to get across our galaxy. And we're thirty 39 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: one and a half trillion dollars in debt. Now you're 40 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: talking about adding another nineteen in ten years, mister speaker. 41 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: We are taking in record revenue at this very moment. 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: The federal government's never taken in more money than they're 43 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: taking right now, and yet it's not enough to sustain 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: the expenditures. That's the telling story. We spend a dollar 45 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: thirty for every dollar we take in. Most people, almost 46 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: every single person, every single one of my bosses, all 47 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: the three hundred plus million Americans across the country know 48 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: that you can't spend more money than you bring in. 49 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: They just know that instinctively because they live their lives. 50 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: You can try and refinance it, and you can do 51 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: some of those things, but at some point you're going 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: to have to pay the bill. And it's dangerous for 53 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: us from an economic standpoint when you look at the 54 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: inflationary pressures that every family is facing right now, but 55 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: also from a national security standpoint, it is dangerous for 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: us to not be able to afford to pay our 57 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: service members, to pay for weapons systems, and to pay 58 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: for the technology that we desperately need to stay on 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: top of and ahead of our adversaries. All this is 60 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: part and parcel to decisions that we make, priorities that 61 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: we set, and choices that are before members of Congress 62 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: in the administration, and we've made commitments to our citizens. 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: Our citizens have paid in to those commitments under penalty 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: of laws, so we absolutely have to honor them. But 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: we obviously know that we can't continue down this course. 66 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: And the President just says, just keep doing the same thing, 67 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to negotiate. You know as well 68 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: as I do, mister Speaker, that that's an untenable position. 69 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: It's irresponsible, and it's not going to last. I think 70 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: that's right. I think the country will favor a Republican 71 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: led responsible death ceiling, and I think the Democrats will 72 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: be crushed if they actually stick to irresponsibility, particularly with 73 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: this new Congressional Budget Office report, which is frankly so 74 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: staggering and the numbers involved that if you have any 75 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: common sense at all, you know it can't be maintained. Now, 76 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: your amendment's interesting because every state except Vermont has a 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: requirement to balance their budgets. The idea of balancing the 78 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: budget is not radical forty nine of our fifty states 79 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: have a requirement to do it. Tell me how you 80 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: came to the conclusion that you want to introduce a 81 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: balance budget amend Speaker. You know I'm from a place 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: where you used to live here. I represent the great 83 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: place of Hummelstown, Pennsylvania, which is just adjacent to Hershey, Hershey, Pa, 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: the sweetest place on earth. They're hard working people. They 85 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: make their budgets balance, they make their ends meet. They 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: have to. And so one of my frustrations as citizen 87 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: Perry was watching my tax dollars that I work hard 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: for everybody does squandered on things that are unaffordable, unnecessary, 89 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: just out of the lane of priorities. So it was 90 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: my first bill that I drafted. It's the first bill 91 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: that I introduced every single session that I've been privileged 92 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: with the honor to continue to serve. And it says 93 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: to the American people that we respect your hard work 94 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: and the money that we're taking from you under the 95 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: penalty of throwing you in jail if you don't give it, 96 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: and we're going to spend it the right way. To me, 97 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: it's the way of showing our citizens, my bosses, your 98 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: former bosses. The respect that they deserve. This government is theirs. 99 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: They don't serve us, We serve them, and it was 100 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: to me the best way to show them that I 101 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: got it, that I understood what they're frustrated about and 102 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: what they want to see fixed in a macro scale, 103 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: on the big scale of things in Washington, DC and 104 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: our federal government. Of course, in Pennsylvania, we have to 105 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: balance the budget, just like all the other forty nine 106 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: states do and forty eight states do, and people get that. 107 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: It requires us to make difficult choices, but that's what 108 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: they hired us to do. So that's why it's important 109 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: to me. I know that in central Pennsylvania there's a 110 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: deep sense of personal conservatism in the sense that people 111 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: expect to pay their bills, they expect to live within 112 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: their means, and I think Washington in that sense seems 113 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: such a weird anomaly. I also have an encouraging thought 114 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: for you because when we took over after the contract 115 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: with American Campaign in January nineteen ninety five, the House 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: actually approved a balanced budget amendment by three hundred to 117 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty two, and then we came really 118 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: close in the Senate we got sixty five votes in 119 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: the first time, and then Bob Dole switch for technical reasons. 120 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,559 Speaker 1: We got sixty four votes, were only one vote short, 121 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: and because we'd gotten three hundred votes in the House 122 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: and sixty five votes in the Senate, we went ahead 123 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: and decided we'd go ahead and balance the budget, which 124 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: we did for four straight years. So I know that 125 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: it's doable, and I think that it's very important what 126 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: you're doing in setting the stage and in starting the 127 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: conversation in the right direction. Talk to us govern us 128 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: about how would the balanced budget amendment actually work that 129 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: you've written. Well, the way it works is is that 130 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: agencies have to look at what they're spending money on 131 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: to determine if it's working and what their priorities are, 132 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: and then work with the Congress to determine whether they 133 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: can meet the benchmark. It's a percentage of the GDP, 134 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: the gross domestic product, so it's a function of how 135 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: much money the country makes as a whole. The important 136 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: thing I think to note for me, mister Speaker, is 137 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: that mine particularly says you can't raise taxes, because of 138 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: course you can always balance your budget by bringing in 139 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: more revenue and in the case of people working, they 140 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: would have to earn more money, get a second job, 141 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: get higher pay, something along that lines. So we exclude 142 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: that because, like I said in the beginning of your show, 143 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: here we are already taking in record revenue. So the revenue, 144 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: the income is not the problem. It's not the issue. 145 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: It's the outgo, it's the spending. It's the prioritization. So 146 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: we want agencies to prioritize, not based on what they 147 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: did last year or some kind of formula just says 148 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: you get more every single year based on the cost 149 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: of living and inflation, but what you're actually doing that's working, 150 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: and the programs that you want to support, and which 151 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: programs don't actually work. And it's a way of making 152 00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: government more efficient based on solutions and outcomes, which is 153 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: what I think we all do. Like we don't keep 154 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: on spending money in our homes generally speaking, if we 155 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: know about it on things we no longer use and 156 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: no longer work. In this case, we want government to 157 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: do the exact same thing. Quit spending money just because 158 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: you spend it there last year. As you know, mister speaker, 159 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: the federal government is replete. I mean, if you just 160 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: drive to Washington, DC. You look at these mammoth buildings 161 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: and you think to yourself, how many people work in there, 162 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: and what are they doing all day long? And is 163 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: it necessary we have programs upon programs If you just 164 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: look at something like rural broadband, you know, because much 165 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: of this district is rural. I just happen to know this. 166 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: I think there are twenty eight separate rural broadband programs. 167 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: I'm not sure we need twenty eight, mister speaker. Maybe 168 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: we need twenty, maybe we actually only need one. But 169 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: we're spending money on a couple dozen of those things. 170 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: And I think that there are some efficiency there. And 171 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: that's just one program. There are literally thousands, tens of 172 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: maybe hundreds of thousands of similar circumstances where we can 173 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: actually complete the mission but not spend as much well. 174 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: And I think what people need to realize is that 175 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: in each of these little programs, there are bureaucrats whose 176 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: career is engaged, and so all twenty eight will fight desperately, 177 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: whether they're competent or incompetent, whether they're achieving anything or 178 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: achieving nothing, it's their job. It's breathtaking how much we've 179 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: allowed rule by bureaucracy to replace Lincoln's government of the people, 180 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: by the people, and for the people. And I think 181 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: your amendment is a big step back in the right direction. 182 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: I also noted and this was different from the one 183 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: we did, And I think you are going in the 184 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: right direction, which is you require three fists vote to 185 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: either raise taxes or raise the limit on the debt. 186 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: So you would really basically say they accept in an emergency, 187 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: because you're not going to get three fifths vote unless 188 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: it's an emergency. Accept in an emergency. We're going to 189 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: live within the current structure, and we're going to live 190 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: within the current spending. Yeah, because we know that there 191 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: are times it could be a natural disaster, we could 192 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: end up inadvertently at war with some country that attacks us. 193 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: You've got to be able to leave some leeway for 194 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: the government to do its job. But I think the 195 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: important thing is that we're focused on making sure we're 196 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: living in our means so that we can do these things. 197 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: But yet you have to understand and recognize there is 198 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: an emergency set of circumstances that require a different approach, 199 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: and we leave that safety valve in there. But in 200 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: the meantime, we want to make sure that voters know 201 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: that their representatives either are voting for increased spending without 202 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: a plan and without a solution, or they're only doing 203 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: it for emergency circumstances, which I think we can all agree, 204 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: depending on the emergency, that's an appropriate time to do that, 205 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: like we did in World War Two, right when our 206 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: gross domestic product exceeded what we brought in for years 207 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: and years, and it took us a little while to 208 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: get cured of that. But right now, as you look 209 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: at the numbers, mister speaker, you can see that we're 210 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: it's almost vertical, and there's no end in sight, and 211 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: there's no plan in sight, which is even worse. You're 212 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: sort of riding a wave of history here, because I 213 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: noticed that Representative Fitzpatrick from Pennsylvania and Representative Van Orden 214 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: from Wisconsin, Representative Obernulty from California, and Representative None have 215 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: also all introduced a resolution proposing a balanced budget amendment. 216 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you have a sense that the conversation about 217 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: the requirement to get back to a balanced budget, you're 218 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: sort of picking up momentum. I absolutely do, mister speaker, 219 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: And for maybe your listeners that don't know those names. 220 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: That's a pretty big cross section of the Republican conference. 221 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: You got me as Chairman of the House Freedom Caucus 222 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: with a balanced budget amendment, and many people would say, well, 223 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense, we would see that in 224 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: your view of policy and policy making. But when you 225 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: have the other side of the spectrum, the complete opposite 226 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: end of the spectrum of the Republican conference. So if 227 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: you have the right and the left both agree to 228 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: this concept that we must not spend more than we 229 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: take in, as you know, mister speaker, it's really difficult 230 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: to get Democrats and Republicans to agree. It's also sometimes 231 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: just as difficult to get Republicans and Republicans to agree 232 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: when you have that part in the conversation where we 233 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: both at least agree on the concept. Now we're talking 234 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: about the details. And while I've offered my amendment, I'm 235 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: thrilled that these other folks have offered one. And if 236 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: they want to have a conversation that's constructive about it 237 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be mine. Let's just do something I 238 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: just have to comment on from my own personal sprints. 239 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: You know, there's an analysis by the Committee for a 240 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: Responsible Federal Budget that balancing the budget over the course 241 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: of a decade would require a twenty six percent cut 242 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: to all federal spending. And they said, if you take 243 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: out Defense of Veterans, Mendicare, and soil scurity, it would 244 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: require an eighty five percent cut. And then they said 245 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: that it's an admirable and desirable goal, but it's probably impossible. Well, 246 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: I just want to report for a minute. When we 247 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: got the vote we did. The House leadership is very 248 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: similar to where you guys are now. The House leadership 249 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: sat down and made a decision over dinner one night, 250 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: we are going to balance the federal budget. Well, we 251 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: had promised in our particular amendment that we would balance 252 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: it within seven years. So we said, okay, we will 253 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: pretend the amendment actually passed because it had passed the 254 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: House by a huge margin, and we'll do it in 255 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: seven years. John Kasik, who was the budget chairman, came 256 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: in a week later and said, you know, guys, seven 257 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: years is going to be really tough. It might take ten. 258 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: Can we be flexible? And the leadership voted, and since 259 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: none of the rest of us had the responsibility, the 260 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: vote was like ten to one, No, we're going to 261 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: stick with seven years. Kasik was the only one. In 262 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: the week after that, we gave Kasik a marble plate 263 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: for his desk that said balanced budget seven years. Well. 264 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: The amazing thing was because of the combination of welfare 265 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: reform and other reforms, and the combination of tax cuts, 266 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: not tax increases, but tax cuts to dramatically expand the economy, 267 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: we balance the federal budget within four years. And when 268 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: I left office, the Channel of the Federal Reserve of 269 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: Alan Greenspan was making a speech saying, it's very likely 270 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: we will have paid off the federal debt by two 271 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Now the people who followed me didn't 272 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: have the same passion, and we collapsed back into normal politics. 273 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: I'm making the case that you, in fact are right, 274 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: and I don't understand why the Committee for a Responsible 275 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: Federal Budget would think it's not possible. And I would 276 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: say to anybody who asked, we have living proof in 277 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: your lifetime. We did balance the budget for four stray years. 278 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: We balanced it at a rate that nobody thought possible, 279 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: and I believe if you got serious about it, you 280 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: would have a remarkable i impact on the spending project 281 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: to the United States. Almost overnight I think you're absolutely right, 282 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: mister speaker. You said that you wanted to do it 283 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: in seven, the critics said it couldn't be done in ten. 284 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: You did it in four. Where there's a will, there's 285 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: absolutely a way. And of course, one of the things 286 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: that's almost always left out of the conversation is growth. 287 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: And of course I know they're looking at the anemic 288 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: growth that is characteristic of this administration and their policies. 289 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: But let's face the facts. You were alive just three 290 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: years ago pre COVID, and you saw an amazing spike 291 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: in growth based on policy and based on the will 292 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: to make that so, and people's logs were enriched by it. Look, 293 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: the economy was in much better shape. People were making 294 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: money and they were spending money, and we were taking 295 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: in at the same time, record revenue at that time. 296 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: So it can be done, but you have to be 297 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: willing to make the changes necessary for people to grow 298 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: the economy. These interest rates are choking the housing market, 299 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: and you know what happens downstream from that. Of course, 300 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: the energy is choking the supply chain, choking individual households 301 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: has a dramatic effect on these numbers. And with a 302 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: few dramatic changes to those things which are in about 303 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: faced to the current leftist policy. This administration could be 304 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: part of a revolution which changes the trajectory of this 305 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: enormous debt bubble that is burdening not only us but 306 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: every single future generation. And so you know, we have 307 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: one of the houses in Congress. We're going to have 308 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: to work with the other side on this and with 309 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: the executive But if they truly want to do this, 310 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: and they're sincere about it, you've rightly said there's a 311 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: way in your lifetime to do this. Let me ask 312 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: you a broader sense. You've played a major role on 313 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: the Freedom Caucus. Tell our audience why it originated, what 314 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: its goal is, and what it's trying to do well. 315 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: The Freedom Caucus's mission statement, which is out there for 316 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: the world to see, is generally that we stand for 317 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: and fight for the millions upon millions of Americans who 318 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: feel like Washington doesn't hear them, doesn't represent them, and 319 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: has left them behind. And we stand for accountable, transparent 320 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: government that does exactly what the founders wanted it to do. 321 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: And so for us, we don't want the illusion of 322 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: representative government. We actually want the representative government. We don't 323 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: believe that just a few people in Washington, DC should 324 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: be making all the decisions for four hundred and thirty 325 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: five members of Congress and other hundred members of the Senate. 326 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: It's a little, as you know, mister speaker, Sometime it 327 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,239 Speaker 1: gets a little what's the word I want to use, 328 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: It gets a little sloppy looking, it gets a little 329 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: messy looking. But that's how a representative republic that works 330 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: on democratic principles comes to conclusions and solves problems. And 331 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: in the course of my time here, we have gotten 332 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: so far away from that that American citizens really feel 333 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: like they don't have a voice. And that is very dangerous. 334 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: That is very provocative because at least people without any 335 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: sense of hope, and when people lose sense of hope, 336 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: they become desperate and they do desperate things. We don't 337 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: want that to be the case. We want them to 338 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: know that we've got their back, we hear their voice, 339 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: and our actions are going to be what their actions 340 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: would be if they were here. I noticed that when 341 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: the Freedom Caucus was founded in twenty fifteen, among its 342 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: members who've become famous were Jim Jordan, who's now chairman 343 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: of Judiciary, and I think a remarkable leader and Ron DeSantis, 344 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: who clearly is a potential future presidential candidate and who 345 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: has done an astonishing job in governing Florida. How many 346 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: people now belong to the Freedom Caucus, Well, you know, 347 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: mister Speaker, the member is self identify, because oftentimes that's 348 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: used against them. So I would characterize it as more 349 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: than thirty five, but less than forty five and let 350 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: people kind of figure out if their member is in 351 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: or not, or they can ask if they want to. 352 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: I would also include two former chiefs of staff at 353 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: the White House. And I would also say that even 354 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: though I just saw a Governor desantist this last week 355 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: who I was down in Florida and we had a 356 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: meeting and got to chat with them a little bit, 357 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: oftentimes it's not revealed that Governor DeSantis was a founding 358 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: member of the House Freedom caucause we also have an 359 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: attorney general out in the state of Idaho, in Raoul Labrador. 360 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: And so these are people of action. These are people 361 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: that are really truly making a difference in every single Americans' lives. 362 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: And I think that the mainstream media doesn't want to 363 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 1: give the credit to the House Freedom Caucus as one 364 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: of the starting points in one of the visions for 365 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: these individuals that are doing remarkable things. When you look 366 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: at the list of victories in Florida under Governor DeSantis, 367 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: quite honestly, it is staggering, and when you go through it, 368 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: you'll almost get exhausted from hearing the number of victories. Literally, 369 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: he's been remarkable. And of course, as you point out, 370 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: President Trump reached out to the original founding members both 371 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: for Mick mulveney of South Carolina and then for Mark 372 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: Meadows to be chiefs of staff. So the influence of 373 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: the Caucus I think has been far greater than his numbers. 374 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: At the same time, you have some pretty strong positions 375 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: about this upcoming debt ceiling fight, where I think I'm 376 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: very sympathetic to where you guys are at. Do you 377 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: want to just take a minute and describe how you 378 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: think a responsible debt ceiling should look? Okay, So, first 379 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: of all, let's start out by debunking and refuting what 380 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: President Biden and the Democrats like to throw out there 381 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: every day. They probably did it to you, mister speaker. 382 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: We are not going to cut benefits for Social Security 383 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: recipients or Medicare recipients. We're not cutting benefits, but we 384 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: are looking at dollar for dollar reductions in anything. If 385 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: they want to raise the debt ceiling by a trillion dollars, 386 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: are going to have to find and help us find 387 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,239 Speaker 1: a trillion dollars in savings. It can be done. And 388 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: then some programmatic changes that really change the trajectory of things. 389 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: Let's talk about work requirements for Medicaid recipients. Let's talk 390 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: about ending the pandemic and all the money that goes 391 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: with that, mister speaker. In twenty nineteen, we were spending 392 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: roughly four and a half trillion. By twenty twenty, we're 393 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: spending six and a half trillion annually. That hasn't changed. 394 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: We're still at six plus trillion dollars. Yet the pandemic 395 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: is over, even President Biden has said so. But let's 396 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: also talk about some policy, energy policy that opens up 397 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: like the Keystone pipeline, or let's talk about policy that 398 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: changes every single thing for every American, which is the 399 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: woke weaponization of government against the American people. Let's either 400 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: put in place for a period of time or into 401 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: perpetuity the reins Act, which says that government, the federal 402 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: government can't just make these huge, sweeping regulations that cost 403 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: every American citizen thousands, billions, hundreds of billions of dollars 404 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,239 Speaker 1: without the approval of Congress first, and so there is 405 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: some representation, there is some accountability there. Those are just 406 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: some of the ideas of a package that I think 407 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: you're going to see revealed very soon. There are twenty 408 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: three schools in Baltimore City in which not a single 409 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 1: student out of two thousand students, not a single student 410 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: was able to do math. And we got into the 411 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: whole question, for example, of ghosts students, that is, the 412 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: school system just cheats and charges for students who actually 413 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: aren't even enrolled, and we talked about the whole notion 414 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: of looking carefully at these kinds of systems. Baltimore City 415 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: is the fifth most expensive school system the United States. 416 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: Per student, they spend about twenty three thousand dollars a student. 417 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: That means in a room of twenty students in theory, 418 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: you have four hundred and sixty dollars of taxpayer investment, 419 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: and not a single student in that room could do math. 420 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: And it seems to me that if we are the party, 421 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: they'll wants to save money through improvement, not just through 422 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: cutting that there are ways we can have whether it's 423 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: in the Pentagon, or it's in the education system, or 424 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: across the board. There is so much waste, so much dishonesty, 425 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: and so much incompetence in the current structure that people 426 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: would be startled how much money would fall out if 427 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: you simply insisted on honesty and accountability and transparency. That's 428 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: exactly right. We don't want our children to go uneducated. 429 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: We don't want our military to go unequipped or untrained. 430 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: But just like you said, you talked about one specific 431 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: example with the Baltimore education system. It is heartbreaking. But 432 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,479 Speaker 1: we also know that the Pentagon can't pass an audit. 433 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: They just release the audit which basically said they lost 434 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: or didn't have awareness of the location of two hundred 435 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: and twenty billion dollars. That's nearly a quarter of a 436 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: trillion dollars in military equipment, and that's on the low 437 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: end of the estimate. So even as a person who's 438 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: warned the uniform, you have to be willing to say, 439 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: we have to look everywhere to see where there is 440 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: wasteful spending and we can do better. And if we 441 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: do that, just like you said, maybe we won't balance 442 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: it in seven, but maybe it won't take twenty five. 443 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: But we have to do something or we're never going 444 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: to balance it, and we're going to continue to spend 445 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: money which we don't have, which we literally can't print 446 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: fast enough. It's going to imperil our economy, our citizens 447 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: ability to find and realize their true opportunities, and our 448 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: national security. We simply cannot govern that way responsibly, and 449 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: so we have to do the hard work that needs 450 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: to be done, not to take things from people, but 451 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: to make sure that the money is spent wisely and 452 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: that there are successful outcomes. I suspect if you got 453 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: back to three or four percent real growth a year, 454 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: that the speed with which you begin to mop up 455 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: the debt would be staggering because the impact that has. 456 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: I'm for higher revenue because people have higher incomes, not 457 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: higher revenue because we take it away from them. And 458 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: I think if you projected out an aggressive pro growth 459 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: policy over the next decade, you might be startled how 460 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: rapidly you could get there. I try to point out 461 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: to people the Pentagon was opened in nineteen forty three, 462 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: so that twenty six thousand people using carbon paper, manual typewriters, 463 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: and filing cabinets could manage a global war. We now 464 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: have smartphones, iPads and computers, and twenty six thousand people 465 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: now they can't possibly be any comparable information flow. And 466 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: I've said to people, partly tongue in cheek, but partly 467 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: to get them thinking, we would actually have a better 468 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: defense if we reduced the Pentagon to a triangle and 469 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: put the other two thirds of the building into a 470 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: national security museum. Because you have all these people with 471 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: nothing to do, who then write each other in memos, 472 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: slow down the acquisition of new equipment, and divert resources 473 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: away from war fighting. I don't know what your sense 474 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: is of just the sheer scale of bureaucracy that we 475 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: have stumbled into, the sheer magnitude of it, and as 476 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: you say, we stumbled into it. But let's face it, 477 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: over time, it has done what just about every other 478 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: single well I don't know of any single government agency 479 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: that hasn't done this. It has justified its existence, It 480 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: has argued for a bigger existence and continue to become 481 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: the behemoth that it is now, which is unrecognizable you know, 482 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: sixty seventy years on from what it used to be, 483 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that we're more capable than we ever were, 484 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: which is what the goal is. That should be the 485 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: goal of the Pentagon, in my mind, is to protect 486 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: America militarily and to do it at the least cost 487 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: to the taxpayer and in lives of those service members 488 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: that sign that blank check. That should be their only mission. 489 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: And I think that the mission creeps, so to speak, 490 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: has not only been at by administrations Republican and Democrat, 491 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: but inside the Pentagon itself by the uniform services. How 492 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: many generals, how many flag officers? Going to look, I 493 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: was one of them, but how many did we have 494 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: to prosecute a world war in nineteen forty five? And 495 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: how many do we have now? Some things have changed. 496 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: We have a space force now, but like you said, 497 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: there have been some advantages to the changes in technology 498 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: that can make up for a lot of that. So 499 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it needs to go back to nineteen 500 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: forty five levels, but I suspect it doesn't need to 501 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: be at twenty twenty three levels either. And there's a 502 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: spot in the middle there, which is what we're talking about. 503 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: This discussion about our debt and deficit, even in terms 504 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: of record revenue. In the face of record revenue, we 505 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: still spend a dollar thirty more than we take in 506 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: a dollar. I don't suspect you went to MT for mathematics, 507 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: but it's arithmetic. You know that doesn't work, and every 508 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: single citizen in America knows that doesn't work as well. 509 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: And they're counting on us to fix it. And they 510 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: don't say we can fix it as long as you 511 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: don't look at the pentagon. No one says that. They say, 512 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: look at everything, and if it needs a harsh reality, 513 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: then we need to do that as long as we 514 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: can be successful. Oh, I think that's exactly right. I 515 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: really appreciate both your thoughtfulness and your courage and your 516 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: work ethic. I've watched it now for the last six 517 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: or seven years, and you're one of the people who 518 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: clearly is leading and getting us back on track. And 519 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. I think 520 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: that's so important that you keep fighting for a balanced 521 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: budget amendment. We're never going to rate in our national 522 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: debt until we have exactly the conversation that you were forcing. 523 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: So thank you for joining me on news World. Well, 524 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: thank you, mister speaker. It is always a great pleasure 525 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: to be with you still in the fight, even though 526 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: you're not on the front line here with us, but 527 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: you actually kind of are. I don't know whether people 528 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: know that, and it's great to hear your voice and 529 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: have your perspective because it helps us solve these So 530 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: God bless you and your audience, and thank you for 531 00:29:54,320 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: the opportunity. Thank you to my guests, Congress and Scott Perry. 532 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: You can learn more about his proposed balanced budget amendment 533 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: on our showpage at Newtsworld dot com. News World is 534 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: produced by Gingwich three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 535 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: is Garnsey Sloan, our producer is Rebecca Howe, and our 536 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 537 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 538 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: Gingwich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope 539 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with 540 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 541 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of newts 542 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: World can sign up from my three free weekly columns 543 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: at Gingwich Free sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingwich. 544 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.