WEBVTT - Blood Is Blood 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:09.200 One de lo, two de lows, three de lows. Are 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.600 you saying dil dos? Yeah? Oh, do you need to 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:13.920 emphasis in the second d? That was me doing a 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:27.960 Transylvanian accent emphasis on t to like many vampires, I'm 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:34.920 feeling a lot of on we because October doesn't last forever. Um, 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.400 and this is unfortunately our last spooky episode of Spooky 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.720 season groas we've really marathon the and the spook and 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.800 the spoop at times the swoop. Um. Yeah, nothing can 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.559 last forever except vampires, which are you know what we're 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.160 going to be discussing today. I can't wait. I've I've 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.560 watched way too many vampire things in the last twelve hours. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.080 I must say, yes. So we're going to get all 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.319 into you know, vampires throughout culture, all the different depictions 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.880 of them. Um, what's gay about them? Because this is 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.080 like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.360 culture today's takes. I'm most damn you and I'm fran 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:21.959 Toronto Rose. Are we out of the woods yet? Are 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.280 we in the clear yet? I was listening to that 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.440 on the way here on my little jog to our record. 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.560 I am, in a sense out of the woods. Because 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:37.720 after a week long battle with COVID, I have emerged. 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:46.480 I wouldn't say victorious or or unscathed, but I have emerged. Um. 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.840 I do want to thank all of the virgins for um, 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.520 you know, being okay with us not happing news last week, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:02:00.160 because as we said, UM in the show notes, I 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:05.880 was down bad with COVID. After and after after not 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.720 having it for the whole of the pandemic two and 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.919 a half years, I caught it. I'm pretty sure at 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.560 Hades Town, UM, which was horrible by the way, UM, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:24.760 and I had a really truly disgusting, nasty, awful case 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.959 of COVID last week. Yes, and evidently I was also 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.040 down bad last week in a very obviously different way. UM. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.600 You know what, we both just retreated into our homes 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.440 and selves and did not do anything. I did test 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:45.160 negative today, but I'm still recovering a little bit, especially 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.400 my voice. So we might keep it kind of light today. Obviously, 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.640 we're mostly going to talk about Midnights UM by Miss 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.400 Taylor Allison Swift, and you know, next week we'll we'll 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.959 discuss all the things that we have had on whole. 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:01.919 I really want to talk about the new Willow album, 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.520 Great British Baking Show. I finally saw Tar Can't God, 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:07.919 but that rose so many different things to talk about. 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:13.320 But today, you know, Midnight's and and just because the 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.480 finale literally just happened last night, I do want to 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.240 talk a little bit about the end of season one 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.280 of The House of the Dragon, because you know, it's 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.000 the name on everybody's lips. I've been doing nothing but 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.320 reading tweets about it, you know, watching TikTok's about it, 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:36.240 or even read some fan fiction this morning. No, no, no, wait, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.000 what was that? What was the who were the characters 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.320 in the fan face? Well, I mostly see the reason 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.040 why I wanted to read fan fiction was kind of 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.040 i'll say, like a gripe I had with the end 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.640 of this episode, which I did still really like. But 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.440 the fan fiction I went in search of this morning 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.760 was I wanted the aftermath of the big you know, 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.760 spoiler alert death at the end of the episode. I 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.880 wanted to see like the character is reacting to it. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.480 And I know, I think it's it's much more impactful 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.720 to have the episode and the way it does, But 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.480 I did go in search of like a you know, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:13.400 Allison reacting to hearing about louse aras is death and 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.680 thinking about her lost love rain Era. But I thought 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.760 the finale was really good. That final scene with the 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.800 two dragons fighting was actually like really thrilling and scary. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.880 That that shot of luce Aras flying on air ax As, 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.520 I think this is dragon and then you see vague 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.080 are over them. Oh my god. They've done a really 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:42.200 good job. I think this season of really impressing upon 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.320 you the size and scale of these dragons, especially in 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.359 relation to each other. And that's going to be the 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.159 reality of dragons, the logistics of dragons, the ownership and 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:58.360 usurption of dragons, how dragons are um used in strategy 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.320 and and and that's like that's stuff we haven't seen, yes, 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.600 and that's going to become so much more important now 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.520 that the Dance of the Dragons has officially started. I mean, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.799 this incident of aim and killing Luke is what really 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.039 starts the war. And I think that's what this episode 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.760 does so well is show that rain Neira, even though 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.919 she's had her crown and her throne usurped, really wanted 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.400 to follow in her father's footsteps and try to keep 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.440 the peace. And she even says, you know, I don't 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.360 want to be Queen of the Ashes, and there might 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:37.440 have been a different outcome had what happened not happened. Obviously, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.920 that cliffhanger was like the best part to me, and 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.599 but um, I unfortunately didn't like the rest of the episode. 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:49.520 I thought it was hella boring and underwhelming. I appreciated 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.880 that it was like restraint and that obviously they're giving 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.640 you colossal steaks to set up a bomb ask second season, 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.440 but because the last episode was such a barn burn her, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.440 I thought it was a funny choice to end on 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.520 something that was primarily plot development until you get to 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.599 the dragons. But like I hated the childbirth thing as well. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.200 Like I was just like, what the funk is this? 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.120 I was eating pizza, Yeah, well this scene was on 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.800 and I I literally couldn't even look at the screen. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.480 I just looked at my pizza for like five minutes, 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.920 like it was a long scene. It was, it was, 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.640 and it was gratuitous. I mean, I think some of 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:31.520 it was good TV, just like the violence of her 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.560 pulling the baby out, and it was so sad, and 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.560 it is true to this this is exactly how it happened, 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.599 almost exactly how it happens in the book. Um, I 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.440 think Season two is going to be a wildly different 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.560 show in a lot of ways. And the bloodshed has 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:52.680 only just started. The child murder has truly only just begun. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.840 It's anyone out there knows about blood and cheese. It's 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.200 about to get rough up in here. Um one of 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.039 the I will say, I think this is a nice 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.480 way to transition. One of my favorite parts of the 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.280 episode was just, um, Rainy's in the background of every scene, 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.280 like not bowing to rain Era and kind of side 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.120 eyeing her, which was giving very much um evil Taylor 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.160 in the anti hero video. Um, So I do believe 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.920 we have reached our main point of discussion, which is 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.920 the ten studio album of Miss Taylor Allison Swift Midnights, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.280 which was released on Friday. Although Brand and I both 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.400 listened to the leak on Thursday. We did, Yes, we did, 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.400 because I do not respect Taylor like that. Um, I 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.200 am just when you said the tense to the album, 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.400 I just thought about how annoying we all are going 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.040 to be when the thirteenth album, So that how annoying 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:46.960 we are going to be? You mean, how annoying she 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.880 is going to be No, honey, honey, honey, it's an 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:54.360 exponential correlation. The more annoying she is, the more annoying. No, 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.240 she's more annoying than we could ever be. And I 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.400 love her, but she is. I'm just saying, on a 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.440 scale of our own annoyingness, we're going to be insufferable 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.640 or maybe just you. Because I this album, I think 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.360 crystallized something that I know about myself, which is that 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.120 I am a Taylor Swift fan, but I don't know 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.160 if I will ever be a Swift te Watching all 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.560 of the music videos, dissecting every single puzzle, all that 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.960 all of that stuff, I am with you on that, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.480 and I even said, yes, well, this is more of 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.920 a Swifty. I'm more of a Swifty than you. But 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.120 for me, it has always been about the music and 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.280 very much not about her as a person. Like, yes, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.480 I like the sort of meme of who Taylor is, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.320 but I'm not interested in the conspiracy theories and the 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.800 galer stuff, and I'm not really interested in sort of 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.800 the aesthetic of Taylor Swift and the like cultural persona 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.160 of her. I really love her because of her music, 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.000 and that's what has always drawn me in. And I 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.480 think where the difference in my love of her as 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:09.120 an artist versus someone like Gaga, where I'm wrapped up 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:13.280 in the whole thing. With Taylor, it's about the music first, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.280 her a little bit after that, and and like, but 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.240 not as much as I think it is for a 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.280 lot of people, Like my identity is not wrapped up 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.760 in being a swifty Yeah, And I think because um 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.679 Folklore and Evermore were so much more story driven and 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.760 like her kind of quill pen songs where she takes 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.319 the focus off of herself just a little bit before 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.280 she goes back into like you know, Jake Jillen Hall, 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.360 Tom Hittleston stuff or whatever, Calvin Harris conspiracy theories. I 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.800 think that's something that I really noticed about this album that, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.280 you know, maybe I don't know if this is a 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:50.960 good thing or a bad thing, but entrenched in what 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:52.920 you and I are talking about right now is that 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.040 we got a lot of these taylorisms back, you know, 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.800 the way like Taylor will kind of misused words some 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.160 times to talk about like spider webs of opacity or whatever, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.200 and else the congressman line. The congressman I was like 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.920 you are writing sometimes, Taylor writes songs like she is 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.679 a sophomore in high school, and other times she writes 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.800 things and I'm like, you are the second coming of 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.000 most truly, like I think is how it is, and 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.400 I think the album has both of Absolutely, this album 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.400 is extremely highbrow and lowbrow at the same time. And 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.760 what I found myself thinking the most, and I'll let 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.160 me get this out of the way, I like this 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.000 album a lot. There are some songs on it that 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.200 I think are really amazing. What I thought about this 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.880 album the most after listening to it on repeat several times, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.640 I mean many times a day, like since it came out, 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.640 is it made it so clear to me that Folklore 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:53.080 and Evermore were outliers in her career. And there's been 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.319 a lot of talk about this, and you know that 0:10:55.559 --> 0:11:00.120 like inside tea of Taylor's career, but this very clearly 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.080 feels like the album that was supposed to come after 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:07.720 Lover And I am so happy that I'm not gonna 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.840 say I'm happy COVID happened. I'm happy that Taylor wound 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.960 up in the artistic place she was in to create 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.400 Folklore and Evermore because they were such a departure from 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:21.520 the music she was making and now she's back making 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.640 that music, and I think it's important to talk about 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.480 sort of what she said about how this album came 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.920 to be, which is that she and Jack anton Off, 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.640 her frequent collaborator, were kind of hanging out while both 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.640 of their partners were making a movie together and they 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.400 were like, let's make an album. And that very much 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.239 is the vibe of this album, like, let's make an album. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.000 It's a project, it's a yeah, it's a it's a filler, queen. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.320 I'm not gonna lie, and I don't think that's a 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.920 really bad thing, you know, when you were as prolific 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.719 of a songwriter as Taylor. No. But you know, I 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.320 said this on Twitter and it was mostly a joke, 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.640 but I actually think it's kind of come around to be, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:03.040 like my my main understanding of what the aesthetic idea 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.080 of this album is and musically what it is, it's 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.959 tumblr core, it's reblog core. And what I mean by 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:15.360 that is it's Taylor just repurposing her old ideas I 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.160 think to in in many cases to really great effect. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:25.960 But this album I think is explicitly and intentionally derivative. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.560 It's very it's very lover I kind of think it's 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:39.280 like the love child of and lover doing reputation drag. Interesting. Yeah, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.319 I okay, it's just to tell the versions where I'm 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:43.599 at with all of this, because I think that you 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.120 and I are kind of on the same page but 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.080 slightly different takeaways. Um, I had that that small, that 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.680 small of disapproval um when you said that the because 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.760 I agree that this is Taylor reblogging herself to some extent, 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.240 and I also agree that it is derivative of exactly 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.000 the things you talked about, but I don't know if 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.760 it's intentional. Derivative is kind of how I feel about it. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.920 And and I will say for the Virgins again, like, 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.320 I actually listen to this album once through, and I 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.360 texted Rose that I thought it was bad, and then 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.520 I consumed it more and actually and then also you know, 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.160 I did consume some sentiment about it, and I listened 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.400 to other people's thoughts about it, and I did grow 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.840 to like a lot more about what the album is 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.760 presenting and trying to say. And I will just advocate 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.200 for if there are Swifties listening right now that hey, 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.160 my guts and wanted to tear my eyes out or whatever, 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.760 please know that, like I hated this album, and I 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:43.680 am now being convinced of it's of its amazing and 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:48.160 deserved place in Taylor's discography. And I like a lot 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.680 of those songs now, So if you really really like it, 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.920 maybe I convinced I can convince you as to why 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.760 I don't think Taylor has contributed anything to her own cannon, 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:59.880 you know what I mean, Like, here are your ex 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.120 a nation now of the tumbler thing. I I that 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.280 makes a lot of sense to me because I went 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.880 into it being like, oh, Indie sleeves, because that was 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.640 something that we had, you know that that had been theorized. 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.120 And I only think that there are two songs that 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.120 are Indie sleazy, maybe, like I think sweet Nothing is 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.480 a little sleazy. I also think that I should Have, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.960 could have, would Have is like a little sleazy. But 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.760 I do think mostly that it is lover. I was 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:30.080 surprised by people that said that this was like reputation 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:35.520 when like the realty is like Vigilante Ship sounds like 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.720 a reputation song, yes, but the only the only other 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.720 stuff that sounds like reputation is like dress for remputation 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.960 and maybe delicate, right, Like I actually don't think there's 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:51.320 a ton of reputation on this album. And I did 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:57.040 find myself missing and I felt while I was listening 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.840 to this that a lot of the things on this 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.560 album felt like B sides. They felt like Lover B sides, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.320 They felt like B sides. Because I went back, I 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.600 really listened to nine, which, oh God, what an amazing 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:16.240 autumnal album. Really listened to Lover. Why did God, I'm 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.840 dedicated to the criticism. We listen to Lover, and I 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.720 still felt like it wasn't really adding to either of 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.040 those in a way that would have enhanced it in 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.760 any way. And I want to stipulate that that's not 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.200 an entirely negative thing. Again, when you're as prolific of 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.960 a songwriter as Taylor, she is a machine and an 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.720 artist on the songwriting level, and I do think that 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.360 her mind to some extent just needs to get some 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.200 of these things out of her system. And I respect that. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.040 And you know, it's not a bad thing to make 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:53.480 an album that has down beat, somewhat unmemorable music, like 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.160 or whether it's a lot of these songs are things 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.640 that are like they're not really gonna stay with. It's 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.160 very noble and not the album is capable. There's a 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.120 lot of skips on this album. And I get what 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.920 you mean about because I don't think there's a single 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:14.760 song on this album that cracks my tailor top ten. Mmmm. 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:16.960 I want to know what your tailor top ten is 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.280 um or your top five. But I'm curious what you 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.600 felt about. Did you listen to you don't listen to 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.840 New Carly Ray? I did. I didn't sort of actively 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.920 listen to it. I listened to it in the background 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:31.680 while I was reading I need to give it a 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.080 closer listen. I don't have a ton of extensive things 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.640 to add on it. I think that they are both 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.560 middle of the road pop albums that don't contribute to 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:45.200 the artist's respective cannon. Um. Obviously they shouldn't be compared. 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.040 It's a little talk with me to compare them. But 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.640 I was anticipating both of them with about the same 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.520 amount of excitement. Carly really let me down with Dedicated, 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.400 so I wasn't as excited. Taylor has been giving me hits, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.200 so I was actually very excited about Midnights. But I 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.199 think I found myself to be more surprised by what 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.600 Carly presented in that she brought it some disco, she 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.840 brought some weird ship. Obviously, the production quality is not 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.760 on the level of what Taylor and Jack are doing. Um, 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.120 I think that they make more crystalline Lee perfect joke, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.879 so exhausted. He needs to he needs a break and 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.359 honestly I need a break from him. And you know what, 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:33.000 one of the theories that I had heard about Midnights 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.439 was that Taylor was finally going to listen to the 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.400 criticism and work with female producers. And you know that 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.240 that did not happen. Um, I just I think I 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:48.879 think this collaboration as amazing of work as it has produced. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.919 It just this is the this is the point where 0:17:54.720 --> 0:18:01.159 it's gotten stale. And that's why that's why Folklore and 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.520 Everymore were so good, is because she brought in the 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.960 guy from the National and there was a new sonic 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.000 perspective that worked with what she'd already been doing, so 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.760 it wasn't so disruptive. But now she's just right back 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.520 doing what she was doing before. Okay, I know we're 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.199 being very negative, So I do want to I do 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.359 want to talk about what we liked. I want to 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.280 hear what your favorite tracks are. Yeah, um, well, just 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.639 really quickly, I want to also say that on on 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:33.960 what you just said that, Um, I when I was 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.080 like digesting this album, I was actually looking for things 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.080 to like, you know, and I was like, what what 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.440 do I like about this album? What am I latching onto? 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.840 And the thing the reason I the reasons I didn't 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.680 like it are exactly what you're describing. I don't think 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.159 that Taylor is giving us anything new. And then I 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.359 thought about her song nothing New, and how we as 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:59.600 like consumers of music, create an industry that forces women 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.680 to reinvent themselves over and over again, and that reputation 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:09.199 and were actually also sonic reinventions of Taylor Swift to 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.800 some extent, and you could even argue that a lot 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.439 of Red was as well, or some of Red was 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.399 as well. And so I think that by this point, 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:22.480 maybe I wanted her to reinvent herself again, because that's 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.000 just kind of how we're cultured to think about and 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.960 consume music. And I was trying to peel that back 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.240 and check myself on what I expected from her, um, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.080 which is why you know, let's let's talk about the positives. 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.240 But the final negative thing that I'll say is that like, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:43.000 I would have loved for these songs to fuck and 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:50.639 I was really excited. I felt almost like I wanted 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.000 this to be her Velvet Rope. Okay, and I that 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.560 that sounds really stupid to say, but I actually don't 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:02.360 think it is a far to theorize that Taylor would 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.600 be inspired by Velvet Rope. If she's also going to 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.840 name check Janet on this album, you know, and I 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.800 would have loved to hear her. But she name checked Janet. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.719 It's such a it's such a tailor away, you know. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.679 It's just it's just this throwaway line. Although I mean, okay, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.879 if we're going to talk about we liked Snow on 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.320 the Beach. Snow on the Beach is one of my 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.080 favorite Okay, so my favorite my favorite tracks on the 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.280 album Lavender Hayes, which I think is a great album opener. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.040 Taylor does not always do great first tracks. I really 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:37.200 like Lavender Hayes. Anti Hero is really good. I think 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.800 it's like some kind of almost the closest this album 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.359 comes to fucking interesting. Snow on the Beach. It's snow 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.280 on the Beach. I mean, people have been making the 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.320 joke that Lana's versus on the hard drive that got 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.360 stolen from her car. Oh, I didn't know that either, 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.639 But I don't mind that. No. I wish Laana had 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.200 a Verse, But I think anyone saying that you can't 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.679 hear her is if that's just stupid. You can you 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.159 can hear Laana both like literally in her voice and 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.840 also just on the production and writing of the song. Yeah, 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.760 I was, I was, really I was let down by 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.520 this song, sadly, but I was. I still love it, 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.560 but I agree with your tweet that Lana deserved Verse, 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.159 and I think for me, it's like an anticipation of 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:26.119 this album. I was really excited about this track because 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.920 I think that Laana is perhaps the most mainstream pop 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.879 artist to emerge from the indie sleeves era. That's absolutely true. Yeah, okay, 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:38.840 And so I was like, oh, this really is going 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:40.879 to be tumbling cor But I don't really think the 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:43.719 music is at all really that tumbler core, aside from 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.119 the kind of video gaming things that are in like 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.600 be Jeweled, etcetera. But I still love Still on the Beach. 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.919 I love how it sounds. I think in terms of 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.439 fucking songs, I actually think that Lavender Hayes is the 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.920 fucking song on this album. And I love that it's 0:21:57.960 --> 0:21:59.560 like a weed strain, and so I was like, oh 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:01.880 my god, is this bad Taylor? Which you know it's 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:06.520 not there, but does this album she does? When I 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.080 think about other songs that fuck you know, Bowen posted 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.080 about Dress from Reputation. I thought that was so true. 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:14.800 I think that maybe, like there's a song on Lover 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.720 like False God or Cruel Summer. Maybe No, I mean 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.880 False God is False God is sexier, but I don't 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.240 think it sucks. Yeah, but it doesn't. Fuck, it doesn't 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.800 Taylor's music, doesn't it really fuck? Um? I love the 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:32.000 voice distortion on on Midnight Rain, but I didn't latch 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.000 onto it too much. Um, but I love the Jeweled. 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:41.359 I think be Jeweled is literally just gorgeous, but a 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.160 new but a new version of it, even like kind 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.880 of the weird little thing she does at the end. 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:51.760 It's very like the baby voice. Yeah, I love and 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.200 I unfortunately love the baby voice on that time I Love, 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.640 I Love You're on your Own Kid, really good track 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:03.680 five Labyrinth kills me. I Love Love and then Karma 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.520 is So. I did not like Karma when I first 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:11.119 listened to it. And then Justin, our friend Justin convinced 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.879 me that it's it's incredible, and I was a fool 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:17.479 to not like it. I I I think, I again, 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.080 as someone who is not necessarily a swift T T M. 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.399 I don't love a lot of the tailorisms, and karma 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:27.960 has a lot of tailorisms. And because I just I don't, 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:30.879 I don't like cats. Okay, I don't like either, and 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:34.479 so I don't care out of the lyrical stylings of 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.080 the song. But the song on the pop level is 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:40.080 an amazing song, and I I think what I appreciated 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.360 it about it is like the thematic flipping of karma, 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.760 which is actually like truer to a lot of Buddhist 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:50.920 ideologies of karma, because in the kind of generic idea 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:54.000 of karma, we think about how you trip somebody on 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:58.280 the street and you're gonna get foreclosed on or something 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:00.480 you know a month later, like something ads going to 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:02.960 happen to you later if you do something bad. But 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.760 like a kind of truer idea of how karma actually 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:12.520 functions is simply put that good actions beget good results 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:15.600 and bad actions beget bad results. It's about energy, it's 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:19.160 about putting things out there and receiving them back into 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:23.840 the world because you're interested in contributing to the collectivism 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.080 of like what it means to be a person. And 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:29.080 I love how Taylor took that dichotomy and was like, 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:32.119 all you're putting out into the world is like negativity 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:33.560 and badness. And I have to tell you that like 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:35.520 karma to me is like the things in this world 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.680 that are worth living for um And I thought that 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.800 was my boyfriend, yes, which I think is is really 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:48.600 kind of beautiful and incredibly dumb but so fucking good. 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:52.240 Exactly exactly the big skips for me on this album. 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.000 I mean, while a lot of it is capable, Vigilante 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:57.680 Ship is one of the worst songs Sho's ever written. 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:02.000 It's like, it's like me level. And it's very telling 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:06.000 that she released the song credits. It's the only song 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:09.400 on the album that she wrote entirely by herself. And 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:13.000 I will say no more and then also sweet nothing 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.800 is a skip for me. She needs to stop writing 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:21.520 songs with her boyfriend. Oh yeah, I agree, But yeah, 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:24.199 I don't know even if this album felt like a 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.359 filler queen to me, if you give Carly a listen, 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:29.239 we should talk about it next week, but like I 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:31.399 felt like we'll definitely talk about it. I felt like 0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:38.239 the sexiness that Taylor was vying for with Midnights was 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:43.119 nothing that Carly didn't already do with like warm Blood in, 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:45.840 you know what I mean. Like, and I I feel 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:49.600 like if she's going to do the downbeat album, that 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.960 she just does some things that are like actually outside 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:56.560 of all the tropes we already know, right, Like obviously 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.320 don't want Taylor to not be herself, but I do 0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:02.320 think that she is constantly discovering new things about herself. 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:04.320 And I think that I wanted to pivot and this 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:07.040 wasn't a pivot. Yeah. I think part of it is 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:11.520 that we all, because the rollout of this album was 0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:14.240 so opaque and there were no singles or anything, we 0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:17.760 all grafted our ideas of what Taylor would do next 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:22.520 onto it, and that set us up for disappointment. Yeah. Wait, actually, 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.840 like if she had just dropped this album, I actually 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:28.119 think I would have liked it more. And and I 0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:31.480 want to say again, I think the album is good. Yeah, 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:35.400 I like a lot of it, but it's not iconic. 0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:38.040 It will not be in my Spotify wrapped. That's what 0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:42.439 I'll say. It might be in mind because I will listen. 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:46.639 I will be listening to Karma brnow on the beach. 0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:49.800 Would have could have shut a labyrinth over and over 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.560 again for the next week. Well you got, you got 0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:56.680 a week. But nothing on this will will crack my 0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:00.440 tailor top ten. I don't think do you want end 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:02.640 with your tailor top ten because I don't know if 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:05.240 I have a top ten, but I would love to 0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:07.119 hear you. I'll do my top ten and this is 0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:10.639 subject to change, but in no particular order. My tailor 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:16.439 top ten is Wildest Dreams, mirror Ball, August dancing with 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:21.480 her hands tied, state of Grace, IVY, tolerate it, out 0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:25.760 of the woods, getaway car, you belong with me, And 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:30.320 then maybe on a certain day new romantics could edge 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:35.040 out and you belong with me out of the woods. God. 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.800 That chorus is so annoying, and it's still one of 0:27:38.840 --> 0:27:42.680 her greatest songs ever written like it's incredible and it's 0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:46.679 when it's when her working with Jack Antonov was exciting 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:52.320 and fresh and um Jack Jack, some Jack, take a vacation, 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:56.960 please say. And Taylor Swift work with the woman who 0:27:57.040 --> 0:28:19.960 isn't Blake Lively, So listen, virgins, Happy Halloween. We here 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:24.640 at like a Virgin Enterprises have discussed vampires before. If 0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:27.080 you haven't listened to our episodes on Buffy the Vampire 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:31.160 Slayer with Evan Ruscats and Twilight with Peyton Dix, please 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.320 go listen to them now. But I think what we 0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:36.000 discussed when we were talking about our Halloween content and 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:38.080 trying to figure out what this episode would be on, 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.680 and like realizing we wanted to do vampires is the 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:45.360 vampire media we've covered already, not so much Buffy but Twilight. Really, 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:49.520 the vampires of Twilight are the straightest vampires to ever exist, 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:55.040 not even just straight like watered down, hyper conservative, hyper 0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:59.000 patriarchal ideas of what like vampire romance can be. Yes, well, 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:01.800 it was famously written by a Mormon, is written by 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:04.600 a Mormon women who hated other women. And and as 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:07.480 we'll get into in this episode, the thing that I 0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:11.160 think exists across almost every other type of vampire media 0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:17.680 is that vampires are inherently and I would say essentially queer. 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:22.720 So because of that, we wanted to explore the full 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:27.000 breadth of vampires and culture and really dig into their 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.520 queerness and a lot of the other things that they 0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:33.760 symbolize some of our favorite vampire media and tropes, some 0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:37.760 of maybe our least favorite um and really kind of 0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:41.120 sink our fangs and and I'm I'm sure I made 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.719 this joke again what we were doing Twilight or Buffy 0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:47.320 we're going to sink we might not? Well, this is 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:51.680 interesting because usually I'm the one who doesn't remember. Well, 0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:55.400 I mean, look, we are here to bring you the truth, 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:59.239 and the truth is that vampires are canonically, by I 0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:03.640 feel queer, queer, canonically queer, but like definitely buying a 0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:05.560 lot of the things we're talking about. I mean actually 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:08.160 like in terms of like vampire queerness, just to like 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:10.960 think about it. Top line as we go into the conversation, 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:14.200 like why do you think all vampires are queer in 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:18.080 all of these stories? Like is it because you've lived 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:20.400 for like a hundred years or so, And like if 0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:23.400 you live for a hundred years, at a certain point 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:26.280 you're going to be like, what's the point of only 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:28.880 fucking one gender? You know what I mean? Like totally, 0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:33.040 I think a lot of it is about immortality and 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:37.320 if we're being very literal about vampire stories. Yes, of course, 0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:39.920 if you live forever, you're gonna be sucking and sucking 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.720 with everyone, no matter what gender they are. Actually, I 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:46.320 would even go as far to say that like heterosexon 0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:51.480 and sucking, fucking and sucking, heterosexuality like doesn't really like 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:55.000 exist even or rather, I don't even believe in heterosexuality. 0:30:55.040 --> 0:31:00.000 I feel like heterosexuality is just like an underdeveloped desire, 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.520 know what I mean. It's like and sometimes it takes 0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:05.040 decades and decades and decades for you to have that 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:07.719 aha moment where you're like, oh my god, wait, Like 0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:11.120 liberation means I can suck anything I want, totally. Vampires 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.800 are incredibly enlightened. I also think if you're thinking literally 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:18.360 about vampires, then I guess if you are using humans 0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:21.720 for sustenance and are kind of, you know, not really 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.840 precious about whose blood you're sucking, then that probably also 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:29.800 translates into your desire for their flesh as well, right, 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:31.720 because blood is blood at the end of the day. 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:35.719 Though in a lot of different um vampire franchises, like 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:37.840 True Blood for example, not to hop right into it, 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:42.080 there is like a differentiation between like virgin blood or 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:44.680 like different kinds of people's bloods and how they have 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:46.840 different tastes or appeals or something like that. Can you 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:50.120 break that down well, even in Twilight. The whole way 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:54.320 that Twilight starts is that Bella's blood smells better to 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:57.800 Edward than anyone else's blood has ever smelled, right, and 0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:00.560 in part because she's not like other girls, in part 0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.000 because she's not like other girls, and also in part 0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:05.680 because she's a virgin. Don't think virginity it's I mean, 0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:10.760 maybe it's like kind of implicit, but it's it's we're 0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:13.120 to understand that it would be the same whether she 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:15.760 was a virgin or not. So all that being said, 0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.080 those are kind of the little reasons why I think 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:22.240 vampires are gay, or buy or queer. I think when 0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:29.240 we're talking metaphorically and vampires, I think, of all monsters 0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:35.600 that exist, are the most metaphorical. Um. I think vampires 0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:40.440 always represent what people of the time that the stories 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:43.959 they're set in are afraid of. So that's why I 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:47.640 think a lot of vampires are queer, because that's something 0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:52.720 that society fears, his queerness. Um. And as I think 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:56.400 we have progressed as a society, that's probably why vampires 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:59.560 have gotten more explicitly queer in the media that they 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:03.600 are depicted in. UM. But you know, we'll we'll like 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:06.600 get to that. But I think, um, you know, if 0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:09.480 we want to look back at the origins of vampires, 0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:12.760 this is very much true because you know, I think 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:17.280 everyone thinks about Dracula as the o g vampire story, 0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:20.840 and in many ways it is. It is in that 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:24.160 UM it's taught in like school high school canons, and 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:27.320 like is regarded as it's like translated all like in 0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:30.640 every single language. And yeah, it's in literary quote unquote cannon, 0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:33.520 which you know must be said is just kind of 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:39.320 like a cis white classes kind of contract. But in truth, 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:43.240 Dracula is actually predated by Carmilla, which was written in 0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:47.440 eighteen seventy two by Sheridan uh Lif a new UM. 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:50.719 It's a Gothic novella and it shares a lot of 0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:54.840 similarities with Dracula, and that it's you know, a first 0:33:54.920 --> 0:34:00.160 person account. Um. It's about a powerful aristocratic figure you're 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:03.080 who praise on people, but in this case the vampires, 0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:05.200 a woman whose name is Carmila, who praise on women, 0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:08.040 and it is it's a woman who praised on women. Yes, 0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:11.920 it is very explicitly sapphic. So you're saying that, like 0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:16.520 this prototypical vampire story, one that literally predated what people 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:20.520 think of as the most famous vampire story, was one 0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:24.840 that was kind of explicitly gay, explicitly gay. So from 0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:27.200 so from the beginning, I never heard this. Yes, so 0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:30.360 from the beginning of when we've been telling vampire stories, 0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:34.279 they have always been gay. But I think also what 0:34:35.440 --> 0:34:39.239 is inextricably linked to Carmila and also to Dracula is 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:41.720 the fact that the villains in both of those stories 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:46.080 are also part of the aristocracy. And so, like I said, 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:49.120 you know, vampires always reflect the things that people are 0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:52.400 afraid of at the time, and what people were afraid 0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:56.240 of an angry with at the time was the aristocracy. 0:34:56.520 --> 0:35:00.400 Who you know, we're like literally feeding off of the 0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:03.800 common people when you think about like totalism and serfs, 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:07.400 And that is where the idea of this aristocratic vampire 0:35:07.440 --> 0:35:10.200 who lives in a castle and then like sneaks out 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:12.960 at night to prey on the common folk comes from. 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:15.560 Wait wait wait wait wait, So okay, okay. The Gothic 0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:22.759 iterations of vampires were like low key commentary about like 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.000 classes on basically, so what you're saying is um, what's 0:35:26.040 --> 0:35:29.399 his name, Sheridan Lifa new was like the Bernie Sanders 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:33.120 of his time. He was really trying to shed light 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:36.360 on the upper class, maybe not Bernie's. Actually didn't know. 0:35:36.400 --> 0:35:38.360 I had no idea that I'm hearing this for the 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:41.600 first time, but I do think it's kind of wacky. 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.839 As you pointed out that not just in like Carmela, 0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:49.920 but like so many iterations of like vampire stories we 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:53.840 have now, they're always aristocrats. I think vampires are supposed 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:55.560 to be both what we fear and what we want 0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:59.360 to be. UM, So, you know, they represent our fears 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:03.440 about the the ruling class who are literally draining as dry, 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:09.000 but also you know, aspirational wealth and aspirational immortality, and 0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:13.400 also aspirational freedom to live as you want to to, 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:17.680 you know, be unbound by the restrictions of society, as 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.960 Carmela is, as Dracula is, and even as some of 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:26.319 Dracula's victims are, because you know, you think about the 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:30.319 character Lucy and Dracula, who is the woman who he 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.880 prays on who becomes a vampire. I mean, especially in 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:37.600 bram Stoker's Dracula, the movie version starring Gary Oldman went 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:41.160 on a writer which I've never seen. It's it's like 0:36:41.239 --> 0:36:43.560 one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen, directed 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:48.480 by Francis Ford Coppla um Lucy when she gets turned 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:52.360 into a vampire, like she throughout the whole like beginning 0:36:52.360 --> 0:36:55.759 of the movie has been this like, you know, attractive 0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:59.160 and like desirable woman who three suitors proposed to her 0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:01.359 on the same day and her like fighting over her hand. 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:03.920 But when she becomes a vampire, like she reaches this 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:08.080 sort of like ecstatic, um, you know, new height of 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:11.799 like her own like beauty and power and um. You 0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:16.360 know that's what you know in different vampire media, like 0:37:16.400 --> 0:37:20.640 being a vampire or something to either be afraid of 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:23.719 in in cases where vampires are more monstrous, but when 0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:29.280 they're more you know, seductive, you want to become a vampire. Yeah, 0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:31.960 And I think in the seduction narratives, which you can 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:37.400 find obviously in An Rice's books in Twilight and True Blood, 0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:41.600 there's this kind of tension between like vampire and victim 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:45.000 that is sometimes emotional, sometimes romantic, right, And and I 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:48.840 think it's like getting at this this metaphor you're building 0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:53.000 on about like forbidden desire, right about how the vampire 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:57.040 is a dangerous love that you know is kind of 0:37:57.040 --> 0:37:59.719 not good for you. But at the same time, there 0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:04.560 is a liberatory power in becoming a vampire, or at 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:07.440 least having access to what a vampire has access to 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:12.839 in immortality, in like centuries old wisdom, in a lot 0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.279 of different things that vampire's wield in addition to protection. 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:18.839 If you're on the vampire's good side. Yeah, well, I mean, 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:23.160 you know you speaking of like liberation. That's an interview 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:27.040 with the vampire when Listat is offering Louie the Dark 0:38:27.080 --> 0:38:30.000 Gift as they call as Anne Rice calls it, you know, 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:33.040 he talks about setting him free because when when interview 0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:36.480 with the Vampire starts, when his when Louie's story starts, 0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.880 he has lost his wife and child. He you know, 0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:43.000 is depressed. He's just like going out and whoring and 0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:46.120 like he doesn't want to be alive anymore. And list 0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:50.960 Stat offers to liberate him from that life and offer him, 0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:53.840 you know, immortality, which is funny because this is a 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:57.560 man who's clearly trying to die and someone just offers 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:01.080 him the most life you can have, but a better 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:04.040 but a better version of it? Right, It is kind 0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:05.719 of a trick, or at least I mean, let's get 0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:08.600 into interview with a vampire honestly, because what that ends 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.640 up becoming is like he immediately Louis immediately regrets it 0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:13.879 or regrets it pretty quickly, where he's like, oh, this 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:17.960 is a different kind of misery than I was experiencing before. 0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:20.080 And because he also didn't realize that he would have 0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:24.000 to kill people to survive, which is stupid. It's like, girl, 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:25.880 did you not read the fine print here like this 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:29.040 that you are a vampire? Now? Um, would you if 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:31.920 you were at your rock bottom you would become a vampire? Right? 0:39:32.040 --> 0:39:33.320 I don't think I would need to be at my 0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:38.520 rock bottom. But the thing is immortality not appealing to you, 0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:42.960 no no, no, no no no no, but want to live forever? 0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:46.600 But being a vampire very your tea. Yeah, so okay, 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:50.360 I guess this. Can vampire's commit suicide? Yeah? Sure, there's 0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:53.600 vampires commit suicide all the time. It's the whole plot 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:57.279 of New Moon. Yeah. Wait, really another way is that 0:39:57.320 --> 0:39:59.480 the second or third one? That's the second Tilight movie? Okay, yeah, 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.799 I've never seen one. I have seen thee when when 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:05.000 Edward finds out that Bella he he thinks that Bella 0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:08.120 has died. He tries to kill himself and just for 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.000 the virgins. In case you forgot, I have seen the 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:14.960 first Twilight movie, but in four different sittings and and 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:20.440 different attempts, different attempts, different excerpts, kind of connected and 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:23.640 stitched together. Have not seen the second one, have seen 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:26.160 the third one, did not see The fourth movie is 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:28.680 their fifth movie. Yes, I have not seen the fifth 0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:32.359 movie either. It's okay, you'll you'll get around to it 0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:35.600 one day, I'm sure. But okay, what I want to 0:40:35.719 --> 0:40:39.040 be a vampire? I guess you could always just kill 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:42.320 your because that's that's the one thing for me is 0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:45.880 like immortality zero appealed to me. Being a vampire sounds 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:48.600 kind of hot. And I don't really understand the appeal 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:53.000 of living forever. I actually think that, I mean, and 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:55.360 I'm not saying this is like a you know, sad 0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:58.880 tumbler girl. I'm I'm being truly honest, like I'm not 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:02.640 being funny. Like death is very comforting to me. Knowing 0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:05.200 that one day all of this will be over is 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:07.919 very comforting to me. The most you thing you could 0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:13.720 possibly this um, and at certain times it's more comforting 0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:17.200 than maybe it should be. Um. But yeah, the idea 0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:19.560 of living forever. I mean, I think that's why vampires 0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:24.080 are both appealing and terrifying, because they are you know, 0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:28.480 also in vampire media, vampires are either of you know, 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:32.200 very evil characters or very tragic characters. And I think 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:38.600 and Rice particularly gets that duality really well, of them 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:44.120 being these monsters but also these like very tragic heroes. 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:47.160 Wait can we can we also just like have a 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:52.480 quick aside while we're talking about like living forever? What what? Even? 0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:55.359 There's so many movies and TV shows and books where 0:41:55.440 --> 0:42:00.040 like the central goal is some sort of attempt to 0:42:00.040 --> 0:42:03.439 eve immortalent Baltimore wants to live forever. It's like, why 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:06.319 would you want that? Like Tuck everlasting? No, thank you? 0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:08.560 I mean a lot of times it's tied up in power. 0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:11.160 It's people who are powerful want to keep their power 0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:16.080 for the fountain of youth Like no, does not appeal Like, um, 0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:19.040 what especially don't understand? Yeah, like people in medieval times, 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.359 why would you want to live forever? Where like when 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:25.640 like you're bathing once once a season? Yeah, holy grail, 0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:33.920 holy flop. No, actually, but like if you that's actually 0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:39.040 if you are trying to live longer, you know, you're 0:42:39.080 --> 0:42:41.279 going on your daily jogs or whatever because you like 0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.640 want to live longer. It's like grow up, grow up, 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:47.480 you want to live on a planet that's dying. That's 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:51.319 the thing that's vampires are going to ostensibly are going 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:55.200 to live until the this world is burned to dust, 0:42:55.800 --> 0:42:57.120 and then what are they going to be? Just like 0:42:57.200 --> 0:43:00.960 floating in space? Some of you you never read Tuck 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:03.000 ever Lasting in high school, and it shows um that 0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:05.759 is like the central like I think lesson of it 0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:07.759 is you know him Charlie and I always used to 0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:11.279 joke that, like the twink from Talk ever Lasting is 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:14.000 the perfect twink, and so sometimes I would like send 0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:16.080 her like a cute boy and be like he's giving talk, 0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:21.360 he's giving talk. He is so twinky, and he's Twinkie forever. 0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:37.280 The thing to me that appeals in most about being 0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:42.600 a vampire would be the version of like vampires where 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:44.880 there is community, because like in Anne Rice is like 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:49.200 vampire stories, vampires are very isolated and like wander or 0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:51.239 at least in the interview with a vampire should say 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:53.759 it's like they're kind of wandering earth looking for each other, 0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:57.959 very sparse where you know, um in something like True 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:01.040 Blood or Twilight or whatever. They've kind of found their covens, 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:04.320 their communes. But that's also what sets off the whole 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:07.439 plot of interview with the vampires that Lestat doesn't want 0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:11.360 to be alone anymore and sees the opportunity for companionship 0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:14.719 with Louie, and then when he sees that Louie is 0:44:14.800 --> 0:44:18.359 unhappy with their life together, uses Claudia as a way 0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:22.160 to bind him even closer to him, and they become 0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:26.719 this little family which you know eventually sours um. And 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:30.880 I mean through different and Rice novels there are the 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:34.600 vampireson and Rice universe also do have covens and families 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:37.480 and um, you know there are lovers who stay together 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:41.799 for centuries um. But yes, a lot of and Rice 0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:45.720 vampires are loners. And for the virgins that the plot 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:49.759 that rose just outlined, Listat is Tom Cruise, Louie is 0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:52.799 Brad pitt Um, and then the girl what's her name again, 0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:57.680 Claudia Claudia by a young Kirston done um kind of 0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:02.200 doing some of her best work. They are fully like 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:07.080 a like kind of modern family as like gay Dad's scenario, 0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:11.279 like they are a chosen family unit period like and 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.319 now not biologically related at all. And that is very 0:45:14.360 --> 0:45:18.040 explicit in her books and Rice and Rice Never sucked 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:22.960 around was saying that they were lovers. Wait wait in 0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:26.000 the I'm sorry, this is this is like actually quintessential 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:28.960 fran and like the like a virgin kind of conversation 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:31.879 I read, I watched the movie, did not really read 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.600 the wikipiti page or book. They're gay in the book. 0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:37.600 They're gay in the book. Yeah, they're lovers. But this 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:41.600 is the thing. When we say lovers, we're talking about love. 0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:46.080 We are not talking about sex. Because canonically, in the 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:52.880 Vampire Chronicles and Rice's universe, vampires don't fuck what so 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:59.320 so her idea of vampiresm is that because their blood 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:04.600 does not flow, they can't get erect and so and 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:08.120 and also you know, she clearly has this very regressive 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.319 idea and like regressive and binary idea of sexuality, which 0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:15.040 is that the only kind of sexuality exists is one 0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:19.239 with an ennetration um. But yes, according to her, vampires 0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:22.200 do not have that kind of physical urge to fuck, 0:46:22.800 --> 0:46:26.040 and so they you know, they kiss and they like 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:30.200 caress and they're very sensual, but they don't have sex. 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:33.319 They are sexless. Wait, I was kind of turned off 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:37.120 by what you were describing. But now when when you 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:40.360 think about the kind of like, um, the thematic device 0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:42.360 that becomes where it's just like when you take sex 0:46:42.440 --> 0:46:45.719 out of romanticism, but it's still a romance because it 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:48.759 really is. It's a sensual sensuality and not sexual And 0:46:48.800 --> 0:46:51.200 that really shows up in the movie, Like there is 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:56.600 an homootic charge between like Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, 0:46:56.880 --> 0:46:59.759 but it's never really explicit. It's only something that you 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:02.880 read into, Like there's a moment where Tom Cruise like 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.799 usurped this kind of twink, but like you never see him, 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:07.960 like you know, kiss him or anything like that. Like 0:47:08.360 --> 0:47:10.080 it's it's kind of in the scene with them where 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:16.080 they killed the woman and the dogs, the little fop guy. Um. Yes, 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:18.600 but from what I've heard, so there is a new 0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:21.560 um interview with the Vampire series coming out. It will 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:23.839 already be out at the time this episode comes out. 0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:28.040 It's coming on on AMC. This is part of a 0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:32.000 deal that was kind of put into play even before 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:36.080 Anne Rice died to make a new kind of vampire 0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:39.160 chronicles like Cinematic Universe, but I think it's mostly happening 0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:43.880 on TV and in the show The Vampires. I mean, 0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:46.520 I've seen trailers and read a couple of reviews. They 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:52.400 are very explicitly explicitly gay. So you said you watched 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:54.799 Queen of the Damned. I watched, well, I had it 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:56.640 on background when I was writing notes for the show. 0:47:56.680 --> 0:47:58.600 But I did like kind of stopped too every time 0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:02.120 a Leah was on screen, which was not that much like, yeah, 0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:04.120 I would, you know, go over and see her makeup 0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:06.160 looked so good. That's not the movie was. That's not 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:08.960 very gay at all. No, and the movie, I mean 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:12.960 I knew that the movie was not um well received 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:18.440 um and also that was oh really, I loved it, Okay. 0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:20.719 I went to see it the day it opened alone. 0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:23.480 I was not that actively engaged in it, so it 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:25.680 can't be like a fair judge, but it was. I 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:27.800 felt like there it could have been way more thrilling. 0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:30.520 But I thought that the rebranding of Liststat as a 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:33.880 rock Star is like so cool. The whole soundtrack for 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.040 that movie is amazing, And I think that vampires as 0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:41.000 rock Stars or honestly just like any time, um, someone 0:48:41.080 --> 0:48:44.080 wants to have a new take on a vampire like that, 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:48.200 I'm just immediately engaged. And I also I guess this 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:51.640 it was tragically like all shot right before lead was 0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:54.359 the last thing she did before she died. Yeah, and 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:56.480 they the movie's dedicated. It came out, it came out 0:48:56.520 --> 0:49:00.600 after her death. It's it's posthumous. But it's very different 0:49:00.600 --> 0:49:03.399 from the book. Um. The book is much goes much 0:49:03.440 --> 0:49:08.960 deeper into the lore of how the vampires were created 0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:12.839 and how Akasha came to be, which I think is 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:17.000 really interesting. I found out a really fun factor when 0:49:17.040 --> 0:49:19.520 I was reading about Queen of the Damn. Apparently, when 0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:22.080 they were filming that like kind of concert seen in 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:27.799 Death Valley, they filled like busses with over three thousand 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:32.840 goths and transported them to the Melbourne night clubs. That 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:38.120 is so powerful. Three thousand goths, three thousand goths on 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:40.600 on a bus to death How much eyeliner? That is. 0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:43.160 The whole way that Queen of the Damn starts is 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:45.640 that list out is like, well, I'm bored, so I'm 0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:48.239 gonna go sleep for a couple of decades, and then 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:50.080 the only thing that wakes him up is he hears 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:52.400 rock and roll and he's like, Okay, I'm gonna be 0:49:52.400 --> 0:49:54.920 a rock starter. Here we Go. Yeah, and there's also 0:49:55.040 --> 0:49:59.480 Here we Go. Can you imagine God doing a vampire 0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:02.719 version of song? Gaga literally has played a vampire. She 0:50:02.800 --> 0:50:06.760 was the Countess an American Horror Story Hotel. The Countess 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:08.800 is a vampire. Yeah, did you not watch Hotel? No? 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:11.160 I haven't. I would love to forgot to put that 0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:13.720 on the list as a hotel. It's a it's a weird. 0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:16.760 Is that the only HS that has like true vampires 0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:20.600 in it? Because I don't remember any other vampires. I think, Wow, 0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:23.440 I didn't watch Double Feature, which was the most recent season, 0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:25.399 but I don't think those were vampire. I don't think 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:28.759 anybody has watched any recent season of American Horror Story 0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:31.080 or I have yet to meet one. Okay, so back 0:50:31.120 --> 0:50:34.600 to Anne Rice. You know, her vampires I think are 0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:39.400 gay but sexless. Which is probably why Anne Rice was 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.080 so against fan fiction. Is because all people wanted to 0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:44.560 do was make them was make them fuck, and and 0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:46.360 Rice was like, no, you can't take my toys and 0:50:46.400 --> 0:50:48.480 make them kiss, which is like, it's like, you know, 0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:51.520 it's really shitty when creators like that, but said she 0:50:51.600 --> 0:50:54.800 used to send out cease and desist letters. That's so bad, 0:50:55.040 --> 0:50:58.400 I know. But she did later change her views on 0:50:58.440 --> 0:51:00.360 fan fiction and said she was fine with it. She 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:03.319 also did become a born again Christian very late in life, 0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:07.440 and so a lot of the later Vampire Chronicles books 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.799 are very religious and like have lots of weird God 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:13.480 should in them. Also you find out that maybe vampires 0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:18.400 are aliens or like we're descended from aliens. I don't know. 0:51:18.440 --> 0:51:20.560 It got weird towards the end. But the virgins can't 0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:22.640 see my face, but I'm really scowling now. The idea 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:26.759 of Christian vampires sounds like loser behavior. But you know, 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:30.480 Anne Rice did move vampires in a gayer direction in 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:33.880 the culture. And I think the thing that really was 0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:40.600 the final nail in the coffin, Tomato Tomatotato was And 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:42.640 I know we're skipping over Buffy, but we have talked 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:45.759 about Buffy at length. Um, And Buffy was not very 0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:48.200 gay besides Willow, and she was only a vampire in 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:51.280 a couple episodes. Um, And I mean it is interesting 0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:52.960 that the first time she was gay was when she 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:55.480 was a vampire. But the thing that was the finally 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:58.600 on the coffin, huh, was True Blood, which I think 0:51:58.960 --> 0:52:06.120 is kind of the first real mainstream media property in 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:13.040 which vampires were fucking gay like and also very bisexual 0:52:13.160 --> 0:52:16.359 and and not in like there were a couple of 0:52:16.520 --> 0:52:21.000 gay vampires that every vampire on that show was that 0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:23.839 was bisexual like like truly by like tread and true 0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:26.920 by and effortlessly by like it was never really or 0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:29.160 rather sorry, I've only watched the first three episodes, but 0:52:29.200 --> 0:52:34.400 like I, from what I understand, it is not like, um, 0:52:34.520 --> 0:52:36.880 there's not a lot of they don't problematize things that 0:52:36.920 --> 0:52:40.640 are usually kind of considered like socially wary and like 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:43.000 our our universes. And something that was really interesting to 0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:45.880 me was just like how, um, every character in the 0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:51.120 show is really hot and an immediate erotic tension between 0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:54.080 pretty much every character as soon as they enter any room. Yes, 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:58.200 and that really is doubled down on throughout the series, 0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:02.439 which ran for I think eight seasons. Maybe what would 0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:04.720 your take be on like the ark of True Blood 0:53:04.760 --> 0:53:07.319 in terms of like quality or a fan reception, or 0:53:07.320 --> 0:53:09.680 even just your personal experience of watching the show, Because 0:53:09.719 --> 0:53:12.040 you're such a kind of a die hard fan. Yeah, 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:16.160 so I would say it really captured the public consciousness 0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:19.240 kind of immediately. It was very much that must watch 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:24.520 Sunday night show. Um. It also got some early awards 0:53:24.560 --> 0:53:26.600 recognition and a pack when won a Golden Globe for 0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:28.200 the first season, which is a bit of an l 0:53:29.239 --> 0:53:32.040 I would never expect that because the sex scenes are 0:53:32.160 --> 0:53:35.840 really porny, like really good, but it was, um, you know, 0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:38.200 it was the kind of cultural phenomenon where there's a 0:53:38.239 --> 0:53:42.759 really iconic rolling stone cover of Anna Paquin and Alexander 0:53:42.760 --> 0:53:45.480 scars Garden, the actor who played Bill, and they're covered 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:47.200 in blood. So it was like it was that kind 0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:51.680 of pop culture phenomenon. In terms of quality, season two 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:56.759 is incredible, Season three is also incredible. Season four it 0:53:56.840 --> 0:53:59.759 kind of starts getting weird and then it declines. It 0:53:59.880 --> 0:54:02.920 is a decline from there, and then the final season 0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:06.760 is awful and truly the serious finale is the worst 0:54:06.840 --> 0:54:10.000 serious finale of any TV show I have ever seen, 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:13.799 worsting Game of Thrones. Yeah, wow, that's saying something. Yeah, 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:16.760 we're so I mean, on par with Game of Thrones. 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:20.759 But you know, the first couple of seasons are so good, 0:54:20.800 --> 0:54:23.200 and you know, you have someone like Alan Ball, who 0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:27.879 did American Beauty. He Um was the creator of six 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:33.120 ft Under and this was I think kind of um 0:54:33.239 --> 0:54:35.919 at the time, maybe like a surprising thing for him 0:54:35.960 --> 0:54:38.640 to do was adapt these So I don't know if 0:54:38.640 --> 0:54:41.160 you know this, but True Blood is based off of 0:54:41.200 --> 0:54:46.520 a series of romance novels by Charlene Harris, the Sukie 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:51.680 Stackhouse novels, The Suki Stacks. Now, I cannot believe. When 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:55.800 I watched episode one, was like, what's your name? Sick 0:54:55.880 --> 0:55:01.799 stack Has And I'm like, Bill is not hot, No, 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:04.880 he is. He is sexy. He is the sexiest he 0:55:04.920 --> 0:55:07.560 will ever be in the entire show, in the pilot 0:55:07.920 --> 0:55:10.840 and then never again. Well he does get uglier actually, 0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:13.120 but I'm not I'm not saying that he was sexy. 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:16.440 I'm saying he is the sexiest he ever was in 0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:19.480 the pilot and then never again. Yeah, he looks like 0:55:19.640 --> 0:55:23.040 like an Easter Easter Island like kind of egghead. And 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:25.680 this is also a problem that a lot of vampire 0:55:25.719 --> 0:55:28.560 media has to contend with, which is that these shows 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:30.839 going for so long in the actor's age, yet they're 0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:35.120 supposed to be playing immortal character. Yeah. I think that's 0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:38.480 especially bad with sort of teen vampire stuff. I think 0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:43.440 with you know, elderly vampires, you can fudget a little bit, 0:55:43.480 --> 0:55:45.440 but it is a bit of a problem. But as 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:47.960 I was saying, you know, this was I think a 0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:52.359 surprising thing for for for Alan Ball to do when 0:55:52.360 --> 0:55:55.840 it came out, but you know, he talked about it 0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:58.279 a lot of the time as and I think it's 0:55:58.440 --> 0:56:01.080 very obvious in the show right from the beginning that 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:06.680 the vampires are a direct metaphor for Queerness. I mean 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:09.640 they talk about how the vampires came out of the 0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:13.359 coffin and revealed themselves. And I think it's a really 0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:16.640 interesting premisephore a show which is not only this you know, 0:56:16.719 --> 0:56:20.960 like Southern Gothic romantic melodrama, but also what would the 0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:22.640 world be like if all of a sudden we were 0:56:22.640 --> 0:56:27.279 living alongside vampires? Right? The humans versus vampires trope I 0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:31.439 think is probably most effective in this show than any 0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:36.160 other like vampire thing that I have watched, because it's 0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:38.680 it's honestly giving a little X men like there is 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:42.640 this totally this new class of people that are societally 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:46.560 ostracized because of you know, their their history and their 0:56:46.640 --> 0:56:49.239 kind of like conception of this group of people, and 0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:53.080 vampires are like, um, vampires are no more violent than humans. 0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:55.640 Didn't you guys start wars? Didn't you guys have slaves? 0:56:55.640 --> 0:56:58.040 Like vampires never had slaves, You know what I mean. 0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:00.719 It's like, I thought that was so interesting. I was 0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:02.520 kind of shook by when did this? When did the 0:57:02.520 --> 0:57:04.600 When was the pilot like early odds like it was 0:57:04.840 --> 0:57:08.080 UM two thousands seven maybe yeah, And in the first 0:57:08.120 --> 0:57:12.600 episode there's a literal, like an almost literal Karen in 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:14.440 the first episode where she's like, can't speak to the 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:17.840 manager and she's kind of accosting Um the black the 0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:20.280 black character. I can't remember her name. She's amazing. I'm 0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:23.080 I'm very I'm just just watched the show last night, UM, 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:26.240 and Kara does say UM. One thing I like that 0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:30.040 she says is in I think the third episode when 0:57:30.080 --> 0:57:34.240 she's covering for Jason UM, and she says that she 0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:36.720 didn't when she's lying and saying she didn't want anyone 0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:39.800 to know because of them being an interracial relationship. And 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:42.720 she even says, like, you know, everyone thinks that now 0:57:42.880 --> 0:57:45.439 with vampires that people don't care as much about race, 0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:47.880 but they still do. And like, I think that's such 0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:51.040 an interesting thing to throw into the mixes, like what 0:57:51.280 --> 0:57:56.480 happens to oppression and you know, like the way that 0:57:56.520 --> 0:58:01.400 people are marginalized when a new marginalized classes introduced, you know, 0:58:01.440 --> 0:58:04.600 like this late into society. Yeah, it was. It was 0:58:04.720 --> 0:58:07.320 an amazing like mini monologue. And it was funny because 0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:09.760 it's like it was a full lie to like cover 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:12.000 the ass of like her crush essentially. But she was 0:58:12.200 --> 0:58:14.520 but she was so smart. She was like she was like, 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:17.440 all y'all are out here like staring at anapaquin or 0:58:17.440 --> 0:58:19.440 whatever for like wanting to get with a vampire, but 0:58:19.480 --> 0:58:22.000 like people stare at us an interracial couple couple like 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:24.440 every day or whatever. And I was like, damn, Like 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.080 that is a metaphor. Yeah, and sometimes on True Leod 0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:30.680 the metaphor is very heavy handed, but but it works 0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:33.280 and it's i mean, True Blood is so hot. The 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:36.720 sex scenes are so good and it is really all 0:58:37.280 --> 0:58:42.360 every character is by. Every character has some kind of 0:58:42.960 --> 0:58:46.160 same sex encounter at some point in the show. Something 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:48.520 that is introduced pretty early on I think you'll have 0:58:48.560 --> 0:58:51.680 already seen it is that when the vampires give a 0:58:51.760 --> 0:58:54.360 human their blood, it means that they start having sexy 0:58:54.440 --> 0:58:57.760 dreams about them. Right, Wait, I didn't. Okay, when humans 0:58:57.840 --> 0:59:00.280 drinking vampire blood is something that also happens in Rice, 0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:02.280 what is this trope? I don't. I didn't actually totally 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:04.680 understand it when I was watching True Blood. Well, it's 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:08.640 something that is used in different ways in different kinds 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:12.680 of vampire stories. So usually the way that someone has 0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:15.760 turned into a vampires being fed vampire blood, but a 0:59:15.760 --> 0:59:20.880 lot of different vampire media also uses vampire blood as 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:25.440 a way to heal humans. Um. I think True Blood 0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:32.120 is the only one at this scale that introduces the 0:59:32.160 --> 0:59:36.040 idea of vampire blood is an aphrodisiac and even a drug. 0:59:36.080 --> 0:59:39.520 And that gets even further complicated later into the first 0:59:39.520 --> 0:59:44.240 season where you see people who are addicted to v UM, 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:46.240 which I think is really fun and interesting that it's 0:59:46.280 --> 0:59:49.200 this like psychedelic drug that can also like heal your wounds. 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:52.400 Oh my god. It becomes like an underground kind of 0:59:52.440 --> 0:59:55.440 like drug moment um, the kind of U and I 0:59:55.440 --> 0:59:59.080 would do v in a second. The if you don't know, 0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:01.600 actually the miss of True Blood, I think the premises 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:05.720 like brilliant um. Basically UM vampires have like kind of 1:00:05.760 --> 1:00:09.480 revealed themselves to some extent in society and are asking 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:11.640 for the same rights that humans have, and they're asking 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:15.400 to like live peacefully and civilly among humans. And obviously 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:17.840 there's a huge class of humans, usually humans that are 1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:21.400 kind of moved by Christianity, that don't want vampires to 1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:23.760 be a part of their society. And vampires are like, look, 1:00:23.800 --> 1:00:26.880 there's this new thing called true blood that is synthetically 1:00:26.920 --> 1:00:30.000 created blood that we can satiate ourselves with so we 1:00:30.080 --> 1:00:32.240 never have to drink human blood, so y'all are safe, 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:35.360 which obviously the pilot is revealing that that's not you know, 1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:38.280 people still eat humans and whatever. Yeah, there's also a 1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:41.680 you know, class of vampires who didn't want to come 1:00:41.680 --> 1:00:44.240 out of the coffin and who still want to exist 1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:46.640 on the fringes of society so that they can do 1:00:47.000 --> 1:00:50.080 whatever they want. And that is an ongoing tension throughout 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:53.320 the series. Also, every season of the show kind of 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:58.920 introduces a new supernatural creature um who becomes kind of 1:00:58.920 --> 1:01:01.080 a focal point and in racks with the others. But 1:01:01.200 --> 1:01:04.760 you know, we're obviously mostly concerned about the vampires. But 1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:07.680 back to what I was saying about the the ingesting 1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:10.840 vampire blood, is something that happens over and over again, 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:13.960 is you know, like a human character will get seriously 1:01:14.000 --> 1:01:16.560 injured and they have to have some vampire blood and 1:01:16.600 --> 1:01:18.960 then they start having sex dreams of the vampire. So 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:23.080 that happens with Sam and Bill at one point they 1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:27.680 kind of a sexy scene. It happens with Jason and Eric. 1:01:28.520 --> 1:01:31.720 Jason has a gay thing. Oh yeah, Jason has a 1:01:31.760 --> 1:01:36.240 couple of gay things. What Jason. There's a really great 1:01:36.280 --> 1:01:39.040 gay vampire who's in love with Jason in the second season. 1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:41.920 It's so funny. Jason's a great character. He's kind of 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:46.720 like a He's the Primaria is the himbo. Yeah. Um. 1:01:46.800 --> 1:01:48.600 And I also, you know, just as you said at 1:01:48.600 --> 1:01:50.040 the top of the show, like True Blood was one 1:01:50.080 --> 1:01:52.360 of the first things to be like, vampires fuck, vampires 1:01:52.360 --> 1:01:55.360 are gay. And I really do feel like, like, because 1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:58.800 vampires are canonically bisexual, we at like a Virgin podcast, 1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:02.640 declare that if few are making a vampire narrative of 1:02:02.680 --> 1:02:07.240 any kind and these vampires are not by it's historically inaccurate. Yes, 1:02:07.280 --> 1:02:10.600 which is which is why I have such an issue 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:13.880 with the Vampire Diaries, which kind of came out around 1:02:13.960 --> 1:02:16.560 the same time as True blood, but you also like 1:02:16.720 --> 1:02:18.840 kind of liked it, right. I watched the first couple 1:02:18.840 --> 1:02:22.960 of seasons. There are I think throughout the entire course 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:25.240 of the show, which was on for like you know, 1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:28.640 it's a c W show, so probably like twenty seasons. Um, 1:02:28.680 --> 1:02:31.320 there were maybe I've actually have watched. There's a really 1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:34.640 good Jenny Nicholson video about the entirety of the Vampire Diaries, 1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:36.800 so watch the on YouTube if you're interested. I think 1:02:36.800 --> 1:02:39.320 there's like four gay characters throughout the entire show, and 1:02:39.400 --> 1:02:42.480 none of them are vampires, but all the vampires on 1:02:42.480 --> 1:02:45.600 that show were very straight and it well, but it's 1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:50.120 also a very post Twilight show and that it's trying 1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:55.200 to capture the y a vampire fervor that was happening 1:02:55.240 --> 1:02:58.720 in the early two thousands, and so because of that, 1:02:58.840 --> 1:03:00.560 it like it does kind of deal in the same 1:03:00.600 --> 1:03:05.640 kind of compulsory heterosexuality that Twilight did, but it's also 1:03:05.720 --> 1:03:08.480 a very I haven't watched the later seasons, but through 1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:11.560 watching that Johnny Nicholson video, I've seen clips from it 1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:14.680 and it is a really good example of you cannot 1:03:14.720 --> 1:03:17.800 do a vampire show for like eight seasons where people 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:20.640 are supposed to be playing teenage vampires because by the 1:03:20.800 --> 1:03:27.760 end they look old like like Airline, they look like Pearl, 1:03:28.360 --> 1:03:44.440 look like Pearl and X. Something that is not explored 1:03:44.480 --> 1:03:47.400 a lot is vampire children. It's touched on a little 1:03:47.400 --> 1:03:50.720 bit in Twilight and obviously an interview with the vampire Um. 1:03:50.760 --> 1:03:53.400 That's the whole thing with Claudia's that she is a 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:57.240 woman whose mind keeps aging, but she's stuck in the 1:03:57.280 --> 1:04:00.160 body of the child, and that is even Um of 1:04:00.280 --> 1:04:03.560 Gorrier in the books. In the book, what you find 1:04:03.640 --> 1:04:07.120 out is that the way that things play out from 1:04:07.160 --> 1:04:09.880 Louie's point of view, which is that Claudia was just 1:04:10.360 --> 1:04:13.240 captured by the vampire theater and then put to death, 1:04:14.120 --> 1:04:17.120 is actually not the whole story. Claudia kind of made 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:20.960 a deal with Armand that she would leave Louis if 1:04:21.040 --> 1:04:25.000 armand could help her get an adult body. Armand played 1:04:25.000 --> 1:04:27.960 by Antonia Manderaz. So they do things like they cut 1:04:28.040 --> 1:04:29.840 Claudia's head off and try to put it on the 1:04:29.880 --> 1:04:32.760 body of an adult vampire and think that the healing 1:04:32.760 --> 1:04:35.240 will like connect it, but it doesn't work out, and 1:04:35.320 --> 1:04:37.600 so she they just end up killing her because they're like, well, 1:04:37.640 --> 1:04:41.040 whatever that flopped. UM but I bring this up because 1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:44.760 another piece of vampire media that came out around this time, 1:04:44.800 --> 1:04:49.440 like early early, it's like maybe like around is the 1:04:49.440 --> 1:04:51.680 Swedish film let the right one in Have you ever 1:04:51.720 --> 1:04:54.000 seen it? I think you've talked about it before, but 1:04:54.000 --> 1:04:55.920 I'm not sure we talked about it. To me, it's 1:04:55.960 --> 1:04:58.400 one of my it's one of my favorite movies. Um. 1:04:58.440 --> 1:05:02.480 It's about a child vampire who makes friends with this 1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:06.520 little boy who's like kind of a loser, and she 1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:10.720 is like maybe intersects. That's something that's more explored in 1:05:10.760 --> 1:05:14.400 the book than in the film. And she has this 1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:17.600 man that cares for her because you know, this is 1:05:17.640 --> 1:05:20.880 another trope in vampire media is that vampires often have 1:05:21.240 --> 1:05:24.120 a you know, a henchman or someone who's in their 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:27.120 thrall who does the things that they can't do in 1:05:27.160 --> 1:05:32.360 the daytime, Like Renfield in Dracula. Um, she has this 1:05:32.480 --> 1:05:35.440 like little helper man who's a pedophile who's like obsessed 1:05:35.480 --> 1:05:38.400 with her, and that's how she's able to get him to, 1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:41.360 you know, find people for her to feed on because 1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:44.480 she's too little to do it. She can't like hunt 1:05:44.560 --> 1:05:47.880 on her own. So this man goes out and kills 1:05:47.920 --> 1:05:51.040 people for her to feed off of. Oh my gosh. Um, Now, 1:05:51.200 --> 1:05:53.960 since you're talking about like, um, child vampires, I know 1:05:54.120 --> 1:05:57.000 you you're not big on adult cartoons. I also used 1:05:57.000 --> 1:05:59.160 to say I'm not bigger on adult cartoons, but I'm 1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:02.440 realizing how many adult cartoons I actually really do watch. Um. 1:06:02.440 --> 1:06:05.920 Adventure Time is one of my favorite adult cartoons, and 1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:10.000 there's a serious regular character called Marceline Vampire Queen. Have 1:06:10.000 --> 1:06:12.480 you ever heard of her? Yes, I have watched some 1:06:12.560 --> 1:06:15.640 Adventure Really it's it's I know it's not for me. Yeah, 1:06:15.680 --> 1:06:18.240 I know it's not your t um really great world building. 1:06:18.280 --> 1:06:20.240 But something that I think is like worth remarking with 1:06:20.280 --> 1:06:23.160 Marcelline specifically, is like, I mean, first of all, yeah, 1:06:23.200 --> 1:06:25.280 they're like all these characters are young, so their world 1:06:25.360 --> 1:06:28.560 is like very like childlike an immature and like, um nonsensical, 1:06:28.640 --> 1:06:31.040 and I kind of like love that. Um. But in 1:06:31.080 --> 1:06:35.480 this world, Marcelyn sucks the color red out of objects 1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:38.760 like strawberries or like you know, like clothing or whatever, 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:41.080 which I think is cute. And she also instead of 1:06:41.080 --> 1:06:43.040 turning into a bat, she kind of turns into this 1:06:43.120 --> 1:06:47.840 like giant, like anthropomorphized like bat monster. And she also 1:06:48.000 --> 1:06:50.560 is like she plays music, like she plays a guitar 1:06:50.640 --> 1:06:52.640 in the shape of like a double headed axe. Like 1:06:53.080 --> 1:06:55.720 it's so cool, and they're like and that for me, 1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:59.200 Like when I'm exploring any sort of like vampire like 1:06:59.360 --> 1:07:02.720 franchise at like I want to see you invent something 1:07:02.760 --> 1:07:06.120 like we all know and that I think a lot 1:07:06.160 --> 1:07:08.200 of like the things that we've discussed today, do do that? 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:10.560 You know what I mean? We do? Do do do 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:14.360 do that? Um? We all know the tropes of vampires, right, 1:07:14.400 --> 1:07:16.560 it's at the top of Interview with a vampire where 1:07:16.760 --> 1:07:19.320 the interviewer is like, so can I kill you with 1:07:19.360 --> 1:07:21.640 a steak? So? Do you hate the sunlight? So what 1:07:21.720 --> 1:07:24.120 about garlics? So what about the coffin thing? You know, 1:07:24.280 --> 1:07:27.320 it's kind of like confirming or debunking these things we 1:07:27.400 --> 1:07:30.560 historically know about vampires and Anne Rice setting her world 1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:33.160 of vampires saying, this is what vampires do, So like 1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:35.120 I appreciate that, Like when Inventure Time is like, this 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:36.880 is what vampires do. It's like their rock stars and 1:07:36.920 --> 1:07:39.400 they play music, and like I just like we'll always 1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:42.000 appreciate that. And there's also um, she's like at the 1:07:42.160 --> 1:07:45.880 when she's introduced, she's like high key, like a landlord, 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:49.240 Like she evicts Finn from like his apartment or something 1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:51.840 like that. It's really funny. And he's really scared of 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:54.800 Marceline at first because she's a literal vampire. And when 1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:57.120 they get into their very first altercation at the end 1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:00.480 of the episode, they end up like, I having some 1:08:00.560 --> 1:08:02.800 kind of fun and they get into this fight and 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:04.960 and Finn goes like, why didn't you kill me? And 1:08:05.000 --> 1:08:08.160 she's like, because I'm having fun, you know, And that 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:12.920 is kind of what happens in every vampire movie and 1:08:12.920 --> 1:08:15.520 show ever. It's like, why don't you just kill her? 1:08:15.560 --> 1:08:17.599 And the vampire is like, because I'm having fun. Because 1:08:17.840 --> 1:08:21.280 the angst of my immortality, which the anguish of immortality, 1:08:21.320 --> 1:08:24.679 is in every single vampire story ever, and it's soothed 1:08:24.760 --> 1:08:29.559 by companionship every time. I think, what every new vampire 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.080 story has to do is reckon with how does that 1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:36.200 kind of vampire deal with that? Is it by wanting 1:08:36.240 --> 1:08:39.920 the companionship of another vampire, by wanting an immortal companion? 1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:43.720 Is that by wanting, you know, a human plaything all 1:08:43.720 --> 1:08:45.479 the time. Is it by wanting to just go out 1:08:45.520 --> 1:08:48.720 and murder people? Is it by wanting to like an 1:08:48.720 --> 1:08:51.840 Only Lover's Left Alive, which is a great little indie 1:08:52.000 --> 1:08:55.400 film starring Tildas Winton and Tom Hiddleston. All the vampires 1:08:55.439 --> 1:08:56.840 want to do is they just want to go see 1:08:56.920 --> 1:08:59.080 live music all the time, Like that's how they spend 1:08:59.080 --> 1:09:03.160 their turn. Yeah I heard about that, and um yeah, 1:09:03.320 --> 1:09:06.040 that's that's. That's what happens when you have a mythical 1:09:06.200 --> 1:09:10.599 being that exists in this much TV, movies, literature, anything, 1:09:10.640 --> 1:09:12.920 and have so many tropes associated with them, is you 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:15.880 have to find a way to put a new spin 1:09:15.960 --> 1:09:18.599 on it. And I think what creators do is they 1:09:18.640 --> 1:09:22.479 either lean really hard into what's come before or completely rejected. 1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:24.559 So like on one side you have Stephanie Meyer who's like, 1:09:24.840 --> 1:09:27.960 my vampires sparkle and like they don't have things, or 1:09:28.000 --> 1:09:30.000 you have something like what we do in The Shadows, 1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:34.080 which is we're going to lean into every existing vampire 1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:37.280 trope to use as like a short hand to make 1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:41.080 this funny. So it's like we're bit we're playing in 1:09:41.160 --> 1:09:44.960 a sandbox that already exists, and that's the whole fun 1:09:45.040 --> 1:09:48.080 of and making the tropes like way goofi or more extreme. 1:09:48.120 --> 1:09:50.439 I guess I haven't seen it one thing I hate 1:09:50.479 --> 1:09:53.439 in vampire stuff is when the vampires desperately want to 1:09:53.479 --> 1:09:57.680 become human again, because that's just when does that is 1:09:57.720 --> 1:10:00.920 that kind of in and it's a thing in blood, 1:10:00.920 --> 1:10:03.640 it's a thing in Vampire Diaries. It does happen to 1:10:03.800 --> 1:10:06.599 I think maybe a couple of characters in and right, 1:10:06.880 --> 1:10:09.439 like they're transformed back to humans somehow. It's a thing. 1:10:09.560 --> 1:10:14.559 And Buffy, Um, it's a thing in Oh this book. 1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:20.120 I just read Reluctant Immortals, which is about Lucy from 1:10:20.200 --> 1:10:25.400 Dracula and Bertha, Rochester's first wife in Jane Eyre, the 1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:29.040 Madam and in the Attic, and it's about them being 1:10:29.240 --> 1:10:32.519 immortal beings who have found each other and they lived 1:10:32.520 --> 1:10:36.120 together in nineteen sixties Los Angeles. I did not know 1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:38.400 that the woman in the attic was named Bertha. Her 1:10:38.479 --> 1:10:43.559 name's Bertha. Um, you've never read White sargassoc. That's a Charlotte, 1:10:43.560 --> 1:10:46.400 that's a Bronte Sisters. No, it was written by a 1:10:46.520 --> 1:10:50.439 gene Rice, and it's a sort of feminist retelling of 1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:54.080 Jane Eyre from the point of view of Bertha. Oh 1:10:54.120 --> 1:10:57.640 my god. And so in this novel it kind of 1:10:57.680 --> 1:11:00.439 takes some liberties with Jane are obviously, and it's like 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:05.280 Rochester like somehow made Bertha immortal, and he and Jane 1:11:05.320 --> 1:11:09.000 are also immortal. And at some point Bertha like linked 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:13.200 up with Lucy who killed Dracula and now keeps his 1:11:13.280 --> 1:11:17.240 ashes so that he'll never be able to like reconstitute 1:11:17.280 --> 1:11:20.040 himself and you know, terrorize her again and then just 1:11:20.120 --> 1:11:23.759 kind of like hating being immortal, and like spoiler alert, 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:27.800 the book ends with them aging again. And so why 1:11:27.800 --> 1:11:31.400 do you hate that troupe? I think it's because vampire 1:11:31.560 --> 1:11:37.200 media has to show vampires as wanting to be human 1:11:37.640 --> 1:11:42.760 because humans are watching or reading, or you know, in 1:11:42.800 --> 1:11:48.200 some way imbibing the story, and so you have deposit 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:53.320 that humanity is the ideal um and that to me 1:11:53.520 --> 1:11:56.679 is boring. I think it would be a vampire Okay, 1:11:56.840 --> 1:11:59.639 I agree, because that thing that I said earlier about 1:11:59.640 --> 1:12:02.839 like the anguish of immortality that shows up in all 1:12:02.920 --> 1:12:06.360 of these titles is like repetitive, or at least I 1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:08.519 felt that when when I was watching Interview with a 1:12:08.600 --> 1:12:12.280 Vampire specifically, I was like, Louis is literally just floating 1:12:12.320 --> 1:12:16.240 through centuries of life hating being a vampire, and nothing 1:12:16.360 --> 1:12:20.000 is really happening beyond that. I mean, I really liked 1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:22.679 the movie, just you know, for the record, but I 1:12:22.680 --> 1:12:25.519 I did also find it kind of repetitive, and I'm 1:12:25.760 --> 1:12:29.479 curious what's the like nuancing of that, right, Like, I 1:12:29.520 --> 1:12:33.120 think that when like humanity and immortality clash in all 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:37.160 these different narratives, there's almost a missed opportunity for them 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:40.759 to have a new conversation around like what it means 1:12:40.800 --> 1:12:43.240 to live forever or not and what the appeals are 1:12:43.240 --> 1:12:45.879 are not because yeah, I do feel like it's repetitive, 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:48.400 it does bring us full circle back to our question 1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:50.519 of the top of the episode, which is would you 1:12:50.520 --> 1:12:52.599 want to live forever? Would you want to be a vampire? 1:12:53.120 --> 1:12:58.759 The idea of vampire orgies and eternal wisdom are really 1:12:58.800 --> 1:13:02.600 appealing to me. I think that that is something I 1:13:02.640 --> 1:13:06.200 could funk with, But not if I was in a 1:13:06.280 --> 1:13:09.200 kind of societal situation where everyone was hunting me. I 1:13:09.200 --> 1:13:11.040 think that would cause a lot of anxiety. Would kind 1:13:11.080 --> 1:13:14.160 of feel like being canceled. It kind of like I 1:13:14.200 --> 1:13:16.760 would be a full recluse, like scared to leave the 1:13:16.760 --> 1:13:20.760 house and would delete all my social media. That's why 1:13:20.800 --> 1:13:25.479 I want to know. I think honestly, I as much 1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:30.320 as I am attracted to vampires in books and TV 1:13:30.439 --> 1:13:34.800 and movies. Um, I think they are endlessly fascinating and 1:13:34.840 --> 1:13:37.960 I love all the new ways that they're explored. I 1:13:38.000 --> 1:13:39.519 don't think I want to be one because when it 1:13:39.520 --> 1:13:42.479 comes down to it, I just I don't want to 1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:45.600 live forever. That is like, honestly the worst thing I 1:13:45.640 --> 1:13:48.600 can imagine. So you and I should co write a 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:52.080 weird al Yankovic kind of like spoof of Queens who 1:13:52.240 --> 1:13:55.479 wants to Live Forever? And it can be called who 1:13:55.560 --> 1:13:58.080 Doesn't want to Live Forever? I don't want to live forever? 1:13:58.360 --> 1:14:02.240 So it's just a song about suicide. Yeah, Okay, so 1:14:02.240 --> 1:14:03.760 you don't want to be a vampire. But if you 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:07.960 were a vampire, which m vampire universe, of all the 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:12.040 things we've discussed, would you want to be in? Okay, 1:14:12.040 --> 1:14:15.800 this is a great question, a question you wrote, I 1:14:15.880 --> 1:14:20.160 must say, yeah. So honestly, I think there's different pros 1:14:20.200 --> 1:14:22.200 and cons. Okay, I don't want to be an an 1:14:22.320 --> 1:14:23.880 Rice vampire because I want to be able to fun, 1:14:24.160 --> 1:14:26.879 you want to fuck. I don't want to be a 1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:30.360 buffy vampire because they're you know, demons and they also 1:14:30.720 --> 1:14:33.120 you know, have an ugly face. They do have ugly face. 1:14:33.720 --> 1:14:38.360 I don't want to be, you know, like a Dracula vampire, 1:14:38.640 --> 1:14:41.080 although I guess turning into a bat would be cool. 1:14:41.800 --> 1:14:45.240 I'm going to say I actually think true blood vampires 1:14:45.240 --> 1:14:49.479 are kind of the ideal because they are sexy, they fuck, 1:14:49.920 --> 1:14:54.320 they have superpowers. The downside is like having to sleep 1:14:54.320 --> 1:14:56.040 in a coffin and not being able to go out 1:14:56.040 --> 1:14:58.559 in the sun. But like, I wear a ton of 1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:01.080 SPF every day anyway, try to be in the sun 1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:03.800 as little as possible, So I think like that kind 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:06.680 of works out. Yeah, vampires really, you know, they have 1:15:06.720 --> 1:15:09.160 an issue with sunlight. But like, girl, just get some 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:12.280 supp get some supergroup girl, get some SPF, get some 1:15:12.400 --> 1:15:16.680 unseen sunscreen. Okay, Um, I think I would also say 1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:19.719 true blood. My first instinct was to say Adventure Time 1:15:19.800 --> 1:15:22.040 because I just think the world is so fun and 1:15:22.200 --> 1:15:25.120 innocent and that the steaks are a lot lower. But 1:15:25.200 --> 1:15:28.240 I do want to fuck um. And also a lot 1:15:28.240 --> 1:15:30.840 of adventure Time takes place in space, which you and 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:33.519 I on this podcast have no no, we do not. 1:15:34.400 --> 1:15:38.799 We do not endorse space in the concept space famously 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:41.160 very far away. Um, we do not funk with it. 1:15:41.400 --> 1:15:43.080 So yeah, I would pick true blood. Okay, we're going 1:15:43.120 --> 1:15:45.120 to be true blood vampires, but I'm not drinking that 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:51.439 synthetic ship. I want organic, homegrown, farm to table blood. Yeah. 1:15:51.520 --> 1:15:54.040 I love the line in the pilot that honestly outlines 1:15:54.080 --> 1:15:56.800 the tension of probably the whole season, where I think 1:15:56.800 --> 1:15:59.160 anapaq one is like, well they have true blood now 1:15:59.240 --> 1:16:01.320 like it's athetic black blah blah blah. And he's like, 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:03.639 would you give up a life of eating like fresh 1:16:03.640 --> 1:16:06.880 food for slim fast? And I was like, yeah, tea, 1:16:07.080 --> 1:16:10.280 no nobody would. I wouldn't know. I want to live deliciously. 1:16:11.439 --> 1:16:15.639 I do want to live deliciously, um, just not immortally. No, 1:16:15.880 --> 1:16:18.320 I do not want to live forever. I don't even 1:16:18.360 --> 1:16:29.360 want to live the rest of this week. So thank 1:16:29.360 --> 1:16:32.200 you for listening to all of our Halloween episodes. It's 1:16:32.240 --> 1:16:35.759 been such a fun month of doing these. I'm obviously 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:38.120 very sad that we won't be doing spooky stuff anymore, 1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:42.160 but I'm sure we'll have some, you know, special surprises 1:16:42.240 --> 1:16:45.639 and exciting things happening for the holidays. We like a version, 1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:49.560 also believe in spooky behavior all year long. That is true. 1:16:50.479 --> 1:16:52.800 You know they say that Pride is three five days 1:16:52.800 --> 1:16:55.320 a year, but Oooky Spooky is three hundred sixty five 1:16:55.400 --> 1:16:57.680 days a year. Pride does not three d six or 1:16:57.720 --> 1:17:02.000 five days a year. Pride is actually zero daisy. But 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:04.519 next week we'll be back, um sadly, you know, without 1:17:04.520 --> 1:17:07.680 a bonus episode. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled 1:17:08.080 --> 1:17:12.080 programming and let us know what you think about vampires, 1:17:12.120 --> 1:17:15.000 which vampire you want to fuck the most? Also, like 1:17:15.080 --> 1:17:16.960 tell us what you thought of our you know, super 1:17:17.000 --> 1:17:20.000 special Halloween bonus episodes. You can slide into our d 1:17:20.280 --> 1:17:23.800 M s at Like a Virgin for we really want 1:17:23.800 --> 1:17:25.960 to hear from you. Also, please leave us a review 1:17:26.240 --> 1:17:29.040 on Apple podcast or rating on Spotify. It helps us 1:17:29.040 --> 1:17:32.880 out so much. I am your co host Rose Damn You. 1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:35.080 You can find me anywhere you want to online at 1:17:35.160 --> 1:17:37.439 Rose Damn You, and I'm frant Roto. You can find 1:17:37.439 --> 1:17:40.080 me at Friends, Swish go anywhere you like. You can 1:17:40.120 --> 1:17:42.920 subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. 1:17:42.960 --> 1:17:45.479 Like a Virgin is an I Heart radio production. Our 1:17:45.520 --> 1:17:49.799 producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, 1:17:49.960 --> 1:17:54.800 j Crane Chich and Nikki etre until next week see later. 1:17:54.880 --> 1:17:58.720 Virgins uh