Speaker 1: Caroline hired up Bloomberg's world headquarters in New York, and
Speaker 1: I'm made Lovelow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology
Speaker 1: coming up. Violent protests at Apple's main iPhone plant in China,
Speaker 1: the latest on the Bloomberg school that could impact sales
Speaker 1: ahead of the holiday season. Plus Sam Bankman Freed says
Speaker 1: the ft X empire quickly went from sixty billion dollars
Speaker 1: in collateral to nine billion, according to an apology letter
Speaker 1: to staff. More on that and how SPF got his
Speaker 1: start on Wall Street. And Elon Musk is having second
Speaker 1: thoughts about that Moderation Council after saying activists broke the deal.
Speaker 1: More on that and Musk's new trend of quoting well himself. Meanwhile, though,
Speaker 1: let's dig into what happened at the main iPhone making
Speaker 1: plant in China's hundreds of workers clashing the security personnel
Speaker 1: after almost a month a tough COVID restrictions, a piece
Speaker 1: to say running bergsone in King is here for more
Speaker 1: details and in you follow Fox con in particular, and
Speaker 1: well have this been anticipated? What sort of impact does
Speaker 1: this have on the output in the production as well
Speaker 1: as the people? Yeah, I mean, from an Apple perspective,
Speaker 1: this is not entirely surprising, given that we've seen increasing
Speaker 1: pressure in China, you know, people essentially fighting back being
Speaker 1: sick of these COVID lockdowns. Um so for Apple this
Speaker 1: isn't surprising, but it's also kind of worrying that this
Speaker 1: is an escalation, that we're actually seeing some form of
Speaker 1: open protests and open resistance to these rules. And and
Speaker 1: you know, if you take fox CON's word for everything's okay, now,
Speaker 1: don't worry. It was just a dispute and we'll deal
Speaker 1: with it in the contractual framework and everything will be fine.
Speaker 1: But in the overall context of what's happening in China,
Speaker 1: you know, the videos that some of our colleagues were
Speaker 1: able to take a lookout for us and get hold
Speaker 1: of are very worrying. Ian you cover a broad range
Speaker 1: of technologies for US at bloom Bow, principally the chip sector,
Speaker 1: but also kind of supply chains more broadly. This is
Speaker 1: like really difficult for fox Con. But what does it
Speaker 1: mean broadly about US China relations? Because technology is basically
Speaker 1: at the heart of that conversation, right, I mean, you've
Speaker 1: got an escalating trade dispute between the world's two largest economies,
Speaker 1: and what's being used by the US as this chief
Speaker 1: tool to attack China or to to hold China back
Speaker 1: is technology and something conductors in particular. So you have
Speaker 1: this escalating dispute, but at the same time, that part
Speaker 1: of China is an absolutely crucial part of this diverse,
Speaker 1: wonderful call it what you like, complicated supply chain that
Speaker 1: spans the globe. So much of the world's electronics economy
Speaker 1: goes through that part of the world. If we can't
Speaker 1: rely upon that, if there is going to be increasing
Speaker 1: difficulties of doing business there, then there has to be
Speaker 1: some huge changes. And those changes, at least for investors,
Speaker 1: are going to mean initially huge amounts, costs, and a
Speaker 1: lot of time probably to relocate some of those factories
Speaker 1: and some of that you know, expertise that exists there.
Speaker 1: I want to watch no matter who you are, from
Speaker 1: a personal perspective and indeed from an investor perspective, in King,
Speaker 1: thank you for taking some time with us today, and
Speaker 1: let's continue this conversation. Let's get the investor perspective. I'm
Speaker 1: very pleased to say that I'm very managing partner and
Speaker 1: founder of Threadneedle Ventures is with us an investor, and
Speaker 1: Apple also an amcestor in Disney and Amazon and Meta.
Speaker 1: So many conversations to be having with you and at
Speaker 1: the moment, and let's just talk first and foremost about
Speaker 1: the Apple conversation. How worrying is this sort of violence
Speaker 1: erupting one that you'd already braced yourself for. Perhaps, Well,
Speaker 1: the reason I find it's a worrying, Caroline is this
Speaker 1: is at least one we know about. Which are the
Speaker 1: ones we don't know about? Says? We look ahead to
Speaker 1: how we roll out at the end of this year,
Speaker 1: which has been a very tentative one coming into the
Speaker 1: holiday season. If more of this is happening across China
Speaker 1: that we're not aware of, it means we are going
Speaker 1: to get some more bad news on supply chains to
Speaker 1: we head into the beginning of the next one. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm looking out for, certainly in the public markets. Hey,
Speaker 1: and this is a really interest the story, right, Why
Speaker 1: are we concerned about Jung Joe? Jung Joe accounts for
Speaker 1: four out of every five iPhone fourteen pro handsets made.
Speaker 1: Right when you look at the stock story, the equity story,
Speaker 1: are you worried. You know, this is a stock that's
Speaker 1: fed better than the SMP five, but it's still down,
Speaker 1: and that there a lot of voices in the market
Speaker 1: saying I'm not sure how impactful this will be in
Speaker 1: either direction for Apple. Well, you heard from Ian just
Speaker 1: the importance of that part of the world in terms
Speaker 1: of the concentration of chip manufacturing and consumer electronics manufacturing.
Speaker 1: I think in terms of the impact on the Apple story,
Speaker 1: the much bigger one has been around global demand. Everyone's
Speaker 1: accepted that supply chain disruption is going to be past
Speaker 1: for the course for a little bit longer. That The
Speaker 1: big uncertainty right now is how is consumer sentiment, How
Speaker 1: is consumer debt going to start to dampen expenditure on
Speaker 1: discretionary items such as the iPhone? And when is inflation
Speaker 1: going to a bait so that disposable incomes start coming
Speaker 1: back up again. I think those are the bigger drivers
Speaker 1: for the Apple story, and let's delve into that a
Speaker 1: little bit more. And because of course you do have
Speaker 1: an wide array of investments and indeed areas that you
Speaker 1: like to focus on retail first and foremost as well,
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about as we anticipate
Speaker 1: how Apple products will sell, but how every product will
Speaker 1: sell in the next few days. What is the consumer
Speaker 1: looking like to you? Well, you're really seeing Carolina, and
Speaker 1: we've seen this. This isn't the first time we saw
Speaker 1: this in two thousand and eight, ten thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: My backgrounds private equity, and whenever this kind of dynamic
Speaker 1: came about, we would look to try to find two
Speaker 1: areas of retail to focus on and including in tech
Speaker 1: and consumer products that are tech oriented. Hire income consumers
Speaker 1: tend to do fine. It is the lower income households
Speaker 1: that really struggle. The hiring income individuals and consumers tend
Speaker 1: to trade down. We've seen that with Walmart. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that some of the best buy news that we saw
Speaker 1: where people are bargain hunting, that's your hirer income consumer
Speaker 1: trying to go and find really great deals right now.
Speaker 1: That's what you're struggling household that's really been hit the
Speaker 1: hardest by inflation, really being hit the hardest by energy prices.
Speaker 1: So I think we're going to see value retells you
Speaker 1: very well because everyone's going there. And I think we're
Speaker 1: going to see luxury hold up when it comes to
Speaker 1: things like gifting and special holiday season expenditure. It's really
Speaker 1: bifurcated as an and it's painful as always the same
Speaker 1: people seem to get hurt, the same people seem to win,
Speaker 1: but interestingly, do the same players win. I'm thinking also
Speaker 1: of Amazon, which you have a big expocia too. This
Speaker 1: is a company that's become so large and every part
Speaker 1: of our lives where this way we consume, we've the visuals,
Speaker 1: whether it's about the way we spend. Are they going
Speaker 1: to do well navigating this environment? Do you know what
Speaker 1: I love with that? Amazon? Actually, Caroline, and you know
Speaker 1: I've talked about this in the past. I think that
Speaker 1: Amazon becomes it's most innovative and it's most creative, and frankly,
Speaker 1: it's gutsy us when it comes to these kinds of environments.
Speaker 1: So Amazon really announce that they're going to be launching
Speaker 1: telehealth services. And I'm sure you saw that they've been
Speaker 1: trying to push into healthcare. They bought pill Pack, They've
Speaker 1: been looking at ways to integrate Farmer into their prime services.
Speaker 1: But this is where you see the Amazon stepping back
Speaker 1: and saying, Okay, how am I going to allocate my
Speaker 1: capital now? It's actually not going to be on consumer stuff.
Speaker 1: It's going to be in services and places like healthcare.
Speaker 1: So I think those pivots are actually the strongest indicators
Speaker 1: right now for where they're going to see longer term
Speaker 1: investment trends. And another huge story of the week Disney Bob,
Speaker 1: I get back b J peck out your reaction please
Speaker 1: as an investor in that company, I'm going to start
Speaker 1: as a brit since they are now three of us here.
Speaker 1: But I was playing before, I playing take that back
Speaker 1: for Good almost as the kind of the jump off
Speaker 1: for when I saw that announcement. Look, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's very good to have a safe pair of hands
Speaker 1: back in the saddle. And I think Ed and Caroline,
Speaker 1: when you look at what's happened over the last six
Speaker 1: to nine months, whether it's private companies, whether it's public ones,
Speaker 1: the businesses that have had bad news, whether it's attrition
Speaker 1: subscription in Netflix, whether it's been Snap for example, where
Speaker 1: we've seen a number of users little down. Let's go
Speaker 1: and use that word again, Caroline, bifurcation. The ones that
Speaker 1: have at least come out with the plan have been
Speaker 1: rewarded Netflix. We don't really know if it's going to
Speaker 1: work in the long run where they're added, but they've
Speaker 1: been rewarded. The ones with no plan snap have been
Speaker 1: a slutely punished. Disney to me is going to be
Speaker 1: a little bit somewhere in the middle right now. So
Speaker 1: we've got a trusted, safe pair of hands back in
Speaker 1: the CEO seat, But we need to hear what the
Speaker 1: plan is going to be. And until we hear what
Speaker 1: that plan is, I do think we're going to have
Speaker 1: someone certainty around Disney for the moment. I'm pleased. I
Speaker 1: want to hear the details. Hey, and we're so grateful
Speaker 1: to have you to wrap the news of the week,
Speaker 1: but just very quickly before you go give us the
Speaker 1: end very three outlook. Oh you know what. I wish
Speaker 1: I were the bearer of brilliant news going into the
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving season, but I've been a bit more bearished than some.
Speaker 1: And I think that's because we're riding the sort of
Speaker 1: bubble at the moment of optimism that the Fed's going
Speaker 1: to start slowing down on their rate hikes. But I
Speaker 1: think this issue of how how much the consumer is suffering,
Speaker 1: not just in the US, also in Europe. I don't
Speaker 1: think we talk enough about Europe here in the US
Speaker 1: right now, and just in the impact. I think we're
Speaker 1: going to see that filtering through in three So I'm
Speaker 1: really looking at much sort of safer stories right now,
Speaker 1: much less discretionary spending. I'm looking at all sorts of investments,
Speaker 1: particularly in the private side, for the good term place. Okay,
Speaker 1: Thread Needle Ventures managing partner and founder and Berry, thank you.
Speaker 1: It's still the story of the week, of the month
Speaker 1: of the year. Let's continue to dive deeper into what
Speaker 1: propelled the fall of Crypto Exchange f TX. Have foundness
Speaker 1: a magmun for you to apologizing to employees for the
Speaker 1: Crypto Exchanges failure bugs. Animasa joins us for more on
Speaker 1: what we've learned from the bankruptcy hearing again Annie and
Speaker 1: also his own background. First and foremost, what do you
Speaker 1: make of any sort of apology coming at this point?
Speaker 1: That's right, So Sam BigMan Fried has apologized now in
Speaker 1: a letter to the exchanges employees, and he sort of
Speaker 1: said that he wishes that they didn't end up in
Speaker 1: this place, that he's sorry for what went wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's up to those employees who have really experienced dramatic
Speaker 1: fallout from this implosion to decide whether that's enough of
Speaker 1: an apology for them, But he is still speaking out
Speaker 1: about what happened and giving his side of the story. Hey, Annie,
Speaker 1: if you're new to this story, I have some sympathy
Speaker 1: because each day a new name comes up. The latest
Speaker 1: name is Jane Street. Could you explain to the audience
Speaker 1: the relationship between Sam Bankman, Freed f t X and
Speaker 1: Jane Street. Sure, there are a lot of players to
Speaker 1: keep track of, like you mentioned, so Sam Bankman, Freed
Speaker 1: ran f t X, the now bankrupt crypto exchange, once
Speaker 1: the second largest crypto exchange in the world. But before
Speaker 1: all that, and before this dramatic downfall, he worked at
Speaker 1: Wall Street trading firm called Jane Street and Jane Street
Speaker 1: is really known um for its obsessive focus on risk
Speaker 1: and it's a very successful trading firm. And his pedigree
Speaker 1: and background at Jane Street is part of what helped
Speaker 1: him get to the level that he got to. It's
Speaker 1: part of what helped him impress VC investors and people
Speaker 1: all around both traditional Wall Street and crypto um. Jane
Speaker 1: Streets known for attracting really um you know, very high
Speaker 1: i Q math nerds. It's known for its love of
Speaker 1: puzzles and games and uh and just for its success.
Speaker 1: But it's a very stealthy firm. So in our story
Speaker 1: we pointed out today that f t X doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to have brought to bear Jane Streets focus on risk
Speaker 1: to its own enterprise, to say the least. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that overall over Jane Street, they
Speaker 1: permanly were trying to learn from previous mistakes, trying to
Speaker 1: analyze would have gone wrong, trying to keep on invading
Speaker 1: and and looking at risk. He seems to have done
Speaker 1: basically the opposite. Many would blame because of the stratospheric
Speaker 1: way in which the company grew. Some would talk it
Speaker 1: just messy accounting whatever they want to be divulging of it.
Speaker 1: But the bridge that he built between crypto and traditional
Speaker 1: finance and regulators, how much is that now seemingly been
Speaker 1: undercut by what he was up to. Yeah, so he
Speaker 1: had this background from a traditional Wall Street firm, you know,
Speaker 1: from traditional financial markets. James Streets an enormous player in
Speaker 1: E T F S and M and James Streets, you know,
Speaker 1: well known and very well respected. So he brought this
Speaker 1: pedigree really to the world of crypto, and it helped
Speaker 1: ingratiate him and and helped make other investors feel comfortable
Speaker 1: with him, and helped really helped him impress them, impress
Speaker 1: the rest of the trading world. So, I mean, what's
Speaker 1: happened at FTS has really like boggled the minds of
Speaker 1: those VC investors, of traditional Wall Street and of crypto
Speaker 1: as well. Um, the way that it's unraveled so rapidly
Speaker 1: and the intertwined really really deeply intertwined ties between Alameda
Speaker 1: his trading firm, and hedge fund and f t X,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really shocked, um, everyone in in all
Speaker 1: of those spheres. Alright, just very deep, terrific reporting there
Speaker 1: from Bloomberg's any massa thank you? Coming up, we'll be
Speaker 1: joined by autodes CEO Andrew Anagnosed to talk about his
Speaker 1: vision for the company and how it's navigating a pretty
Speaker 1: challenging macro economic environment right now. This is Bloomberg. Autodesk
Speaker 1: slumped as much as ten percent on Wednesday before pairing losses. Still,
Speaker 1: it was the worst performing stock on the NASDAC one
Speaker 1: this after it cut its four year billings outlook. And
Speaker 1: let's say, demand for multi year contracts fell as customers
Speaker 1: preferred one year contracts. That's the story of Bordered Desk.
Speaker 1: They want to move to annual renewals, but it's also
Speaker 1: the challenging macro environment. Fortunately, Autodesk CEO Andrew Anagnosis is
Speaker 1: here with us. So I guess the question at this point, Andrew,
Speaker 1: is why why are customers behaving in this way? What
Speaker 1: are you learning from your earnings report this season. First off,
Speaker 1: we're learning that the business is highland resultient. It's highly diverse,
Speaker 1: so we're seeing a lot of great outcomes in from
Speaker 1: the diversity business outside of Nina and Russia. But we're
Speaker 1: also seeing sensitivity to currency fluctuations. We saw that in
Speaker 1: the quarter where we see that moving forward, but we're
Speaker 1: also seeing softness in Europe, and like you said earlier
Speaker 1: in the introduction, one of the things we're trying to
Speaker 1: do is we're moving our customers away from paying up
Speaker 1: front for multi year contracts to buying multi year contracts
Speaker 1: that are build annually. And you know, when you're entering
Speaker 1: a period of uncertainty, people start to conserve cash, and
Speaker 1: that's what you saw with regards of the building in
Speaker 1: Guidence and I think a lot of the reaction you
Speaker 1: start at the stock wasn't really about what we're talking
Speaker 1: about in the next quarter. It's about some of the
Speaker 1: signs that we were projecting about next year. Yeah, talk
Speaker 1: about those projections though, because our bloom Bag intelligence analysts,
Speaker 1: many of analysts out there sort of talking about you
Speaker 1: were very optimistic back in, almost perhaps too optimistic, sending
Speaker 1: yourself grand targets, and then due to Macrobe, maybe due
Speaker 1: to micro you're having to pare back from how hard
Speaker 1: is it in this environment to forecast for the next
Speaker 1: year to full cost out further than the next year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we were. We were We were optimistic before the
Speaker 1: pandemic hit, and certainly we actually performed incredibly well through
Speaker 1: the entire pandemic. But really what's really making it hard
Speaker 1: right now is the unprecedented volatility we're seeing in the
Speaker 1: currency exchange rates. I mean, we we signaled next year
Speaker 1: that there's probably a five point headwind on on our
Speaker 1: revenue are are as reported revenue just from currency head winds,
Speaker 1: you know, and also that look, the uncertainty in Europe
Speaker 1: right now. You're one of your earlier speakers spoke about
Speaker 1: the fact that Europe's not getting enough airtime. I would
Speaker 1: tend to agree with that. You know, we're about to
Speaker 1: head into the Russian winter there, and you know that
Speaker 1: that could eject more volatility and more more concerned into
Speaker 1: our end markets and into other people's end markets as
Speaker 1: we move forward. So it pays to be cautious as
Speaker 1: we kind of get through this winter season and head
Speaker 1: into next year. But currency fluctuations make it really hard
Speaker 1: to know where things are going to go. And also
Speaker 1: some of these concerns with regards the energy costs in
Speaker 1: Europe are are affecting some of our biggest customers. Talk
Speaker 1: fundamentals here though, because almost in fex conversion is in
Speaker 1: some way technical, But really, how bleak does the economic
Speaker 1: out look look in Europe? And do you have to
Speaker 1: start pivoting away, start deciding that you're going to change
Speaker 1: up your business? Look at the costs over there, look
Speaker 1: at the way in which you thought you would penetrate
Speaker 1: Europe more broadly? Absolutely not, yes, because you're you're right,
Speaker 1: Heathens is a technical thing. Costant currency wise, our business
Speaker 1: looks a lot stronger, and Europe continued to grow, it
Speaker 1: just slowed, all right, And I think it's important to
Speaker 1: recognize that you're will continue to slow. However, here's what's
Speaker 1: important in the customers who are using our products are
Speaker 1: working on critical parts of the economy. They're working on buildings,
Speaker 1: they're working on infrastructure, they're working on manufacturing. They need
Speaker 1: these products to complete what they're doing, and in tough times,
Speaker 1: what they do is invest in greater digitization. And what
Speaker 1: we want to do is partner with our European customers,
Speaker 1: are American customers, are Asian customers, to help them digitize
Speaker 1: more effect comply in a world where they're frankly telling
Speaker 1: us they have capacity problems, labor shortages, material material access shortages,
Speaker 1: they have more business than they can actually execute on
Speaker 1: right now. And I think that's what we have to
Speaker 1: pay attention for the long term. Hey, Andrew, I think
Speaker 1: it's where from minding the audience right, what Autodesk does
Speaker 1: you guys make software for architects for big construction projects
Speaker 1: that helps with design, and I know you want to
Speaker 1: move into other areas. That leads me to M and A.
Speaker 1: M and A their options for you there. I know
Speaker 1: there's some chatter in the market about some private names
Speaker 1: some arc g I S makers, ESRI is one. Have
Speaker 1: you tried to buy a name like that? Could you
Speaker 1: buy a name like that? Well, we never comment publicly
Speaker 1: on on M and A, but what I will say
Speaker 1: is we've always been an acquisitive company and we're super
Speaker 1: interested in growing adjacents around our business. We want to
Speaker 1: fully connect design and make together in the cloud. So
Speaker 1: we're always looking at things that lean into the future
Speaker 1: of where our markets going. So look for us to
Speaker 1: continue to be inquisitive. Valuations of reset a reset of
Speaker 1: quite a bit this year, so we were less acquisitive
Speaker 1: than usual years, but look for us to get back
Speaker 1: to our normal levels levels of acquisitiveness we move forward. Hey,
Speaker 1: another big story this week, HP cutting up to six
Speaker 1: thousand jobs over the next three years. I know that's
Speaker 1: on the hard west side, but you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of financial discipline, in terms of reacting to the macro picture,
Speaker 1: what cost cut measures, what discipline measures are you taking?
Speaker 1: You know? The goodness is is we've always been really
Speaker 1: disciplined heading through this entire cycle. We never tried to
Speaker 1: get over our skis in terms of investing for the future.
Speaker 1: We've tried to invest prudently strategically, We've taken adjustments as
Speaker 1: we went along, if if we if we found ourselves
Speaker 1: building up headcount where we shouldn't, we adjusted as we
Speaker 1: went along. We've always done small adjustments. So we feel
Speaker 1: that we're in a really good place that we can
Speaker 1: prudently move forward. We're going to continue to invest and
Speaker 1: if there's a problem, we just turn off the hirings.
Speaker 1: Pigot okay autodes CEO Andrew Anagnosis, Real pleasure to have
Speaker 1: you of us. Thank you, welcome back to blom Bog Technology.
Speaker 1: I'm Caroline Hyde in New York and Ludlow he's over
Speaker 1: in San Francisco and end just talk to us once again.
Speaker 1: Elon Musk pulling out another rub it in the hat
Speaker 1: in terms of the Twitter saga, what's he doing now? Well,
Speaker 1: everything we've talked about has been so focused on the company,
Speaker 1: the layoffs, how the company is structured. But what about
Speaker 1: the platform? Right tweets on Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: that activists that he appears to have had an agreement
Speaker 1: with have renewed on that bargain, on that deal, which
Speaker 1: was part of his reasoning for forming a moderation council.
Speaker 1: Go back a few weeks he talks about this Moderation
Speaker 1: Council being a wide and diverse range of voices who
Speaker 1: would make basically content moderation and policy decisions. Now, the
Speaker 1: reason I bring that up is that some key things
Speaker 1: have happened in recent days, right, and you think about
Speaker 1: the actions that have been take he can he said
Speaker 1: that he would not reinstate President Trump's Twitter account without
Speaker 1: being informed by this Moderation Council. November, he tweets the
Speaker 1: pole you see that on your screen. The majority of
Speaker 1: respondents vote in favor of reinstating Trump. So on the
Speaker 1: following day, the ninete, he does reinstate Trump, though Trump
Speaker 1: says he's not interested in returning to the platform. He's
Speaker 1: sticking with true social Fast forward November twenty two, present day,
Speaker 1: he tweets, now, what's not clear. Does that mean that
Speaker 1: Musk is done with the Moderation Council and that idea
Speaker 1: is over or does it mean it's been compromised or
Speaker 1: undermined by what most cause activists. We don't know who
Speaker 1: these activists are specifically, but it's an interesting question because
Speaker 1: now what we startin c Caroline is platform decisions, not
Speaker 1: company decisions, but things that you know they impact your
Speaker 1: and my ability, the audience's ability to use the Twitter platform,
Speaker 1: and let's just talk a little bit also about how
Speaker 1: he uses the platform himself, because it's taking a lot
Speaker 1: it would Elon Musk of his own advice on Twitter
Speaker 1: at the moment when it comes to his management style
Speaker 1: of Twitter. In the latest column by our Business Week
Speaker 1: friend and colleague Max Chafkin, he writes that the new
Speaker 1: Twitter CEO is impressed by points that he himself once
Speaker 1: made previously. Is the Tesla CEO, of course, which still
Speaker 1: is boss. Chafkin joins us now to explain, it's a
Speaker 1: really amusing article, but you're sort of poking at something
Speaker 1: that is brutally real that he sort of keeps getting
Speaker 1: sense of self inflation by the wisdom he's given in
Speaker 1: previous years. Yeah, In the article, I focused on what's
Speaker 1: kind of a funny phenomenon that anyone who follows Elon
Speaker 1: Musk will kind of recognize, which is, there are these
Speaker 1: fan accounts that do nothing essentially but tweet quotes from
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, and Musk has a tendency to respond to
Speaker 1: those in the affirmative, So he'll see something that he
Speaker 1: has already said and sort of respond exactly or you know,
Speaker 1: great point or whatever, which is pretty any just as
Speaker 1: a behavior and and who knows, maybe he's doing it
Speaker 1: in part as as as yet another kind of troll.
Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting because, as Ed is talking about,
Speaker 1: we are seeing this gigantic, you know, very large social network.
Speaker 1: He paid forty four billion dollars for this thing, borrowed
Speaker 1: a very large sum of money, and so many of
Speaker 1: the decisions are coming down to basically the whims of
Speaker 1: of Elon Musk, where he's you know, deciding whether or
Speaker 1: not to ban or or unbanned people based on it.
Speaker 1: It seems honestly how he's feeling at the moment. And
Speaker 1: we're also seeing a situation where they're the circle of advisors, uh,
Speaker 1: seems to be very small and seems to you know,
Speaker 1: mostly consist of people who are basically telling him what
Speaker 1: he wants to hear. And when you back away from Twitter,
Speaker 1: you see that Elon Musk is also running you know,
Speaker 1: a very large electric car company. He's also a major
Speaker 1: defense contractor, and you have to wonder people work at
Speaker 1: those companies have to be asking themselves why is he
Speaker 1: spending so much time, you know, talking, for instance, to
Speaker 1: these kind of like want to be talk show hosts,
Speaker 1: to these right wing influencers, to these meme accounts. You know,
Speaker 1: the other day he was he was tweeting with something
Speaker 1: called cat Turn, which is like a you know, right
Speaker 1: wing memur um. It is not necessarily the behavior that
Speaker 1: you'd expect from somebody who's taking a rigorous or serious
Speaker 1: approach to running, you know, a social media company. Instead,
Speaker 1: it's somebody who's treating this like basically like an influencer.
Speaker 1: He's he's playing to the crowd. Yes, Max, you ask
Speaker 1: at the top of your column, reality distortion field. Anyone
Speaker 1: talk to us about that reality? I mean, as journalists,
Speaker 1: we've come in for criticism from Musk about how we've
Speaker 1: covered his Twitter takeover. But what we've got to go
Speaker 1: on are the tweets that he makes. What have you
Speaker 1: learned from Musque tweets since October twenty seven when he
Speaker 1: closed the deal and owns the company. Well, a couple
Speaker 1: of things. One is, you know, the reality of distortion
Speaker 1: field that cuts both ways. And I feel like over
Speaker 1: the last you know, five years or so, as we've
Speaker 1: been talking about Musk, you know a point that you know,
Speaker 1: lots of people including myself bring up all the time
Speaker 1: is that he's an amazing marketer, and this this sense
Speaker 1: of like a different reality, the sense that anything is possible,
Speaker 1: that stuff is all really worked to his advantage, um,
Speaker 1: and has allowed him to build, you know, the largest
Speaker 1: most valuable automaker, one of the largest companies in the world,
Speaker 1: pretty much against all odds. And I think what we're
Speaker 1: seeing is kind of the other side of the coin
Speaker 1: here where um, you know, he's in this very what
Speaker 1: feels like a very narrow world, right, He's sitting there
Speaker 1: reading the mentions and um. And you know Musk's point
Speaker 1: right that u oh, that the journalists are out to
Speaker 1: get him or you know, the other day he was
Speaker 1: accusing the Associated Press to being part of you know,
Speaker 1: the far left establishment. You know, it's honestly pretty hard
Speaker 1: to know how seriously to take that stuff. It feels
Speaker 1: like it's mostly just about trying to juice engagement for Twitter.
Speaker 1: And you know, as as Twitter has continued under Musk,
Speaker 1: he's been posting these charts right where they they gained
Speaker 1: a million unique visitors over the last week or some thinking,
Speaker 1: and which is kind of cool, but it feels like,
Speaker 1: you know, this may be very shortsighted. Max. We always
Speaker 1: like your long term perspective. Thanks for bringing it. Business
Speaker 1: economnist Max Chafkin there. Meanwhile, one of the things that
Speaker 1: we're all noticing is the employee exodus at Twitter has
Speaker 1: been raising concerns about diversity at the company. Lots of
Speaker 1: pictures circulating of far more male influence left building with Elon.
Speaker 1: It's a problem not just for Twitter but the text
Speaker 1: space at large, of course, And we want to just
Speaker 1: look at the metaverse now. A new report says women
Speaker 1: are spending more time in the metaverse and more likely
Speaker 1: to spearhead initiatives in the next generation of the Internet,
Speaker 1: but men still hold the executive positions and organized shaping
Speaker 1: this emerging market now. The report by McKinsey says, quote,
Speaker 1: women are still locked out of leadership roles key to
Speaker 1: establishing an inclusive metaverse. Women hold just eight to ten
Speaker 1: percent and leadership positions and organization's driving metaverse standards for more.
Speaker 1: We want to get into all of this with Savannah
Speaker 1: day Comes, founder and CEO of Women x Meta, which
Speaker 1: aims to place more women at the forefront of WENT
Speaker 1: three technology. And Savanna, what's really interesting is we went
Speaker 1: to our audience, and we put out a poll and said,
Speaker 1: a do you worry about lack of diversity of metaverse?
Speaker 1: Do you think it's going okay? Or why should I care?
Speaker 1: Most said, why does it matter? Tell us? Why does
Speaker 1: this matter that it's diverse, Because I think if you
Speaker 1: look at the history, women in particular and people of
Speaker 1: color have been at the center of innovation, yet they
Speaker 1: don't hold those leadership roles. So if you don't have
Speaker 1: those voices at the table to make sure that that
Speaker 1: build has all of the inclusiveness and richness that is
Speaker 1: offered by innovation and technology, then you're missing out on
Speaker 1: that opportunity. How are you already seeing that reflected in
Speaker 1: the very first innings of what's being built in Web three? Well,
Speaker 1: I think that there are women and there are people
Speaker 1: of color here, but we don't often get the highlight
Speaker 1: and the spotlight, and think that that is um sort
Speaker 1: of damaging in terms of how you think about where
Speaker 1: we're headed in the future, the democracy that was promised
Speaker 1: in Web three. But we're already seeing that even when
Speaker 1: you look at AI and other types of technology, it
Speaker 1: isn't being fed properly to reflect the diversity of the
Speaker 1: people that are going to be consuming it, so it
Speaker 1: is necessary to have that innovation at that conference and
Speaker 1: at that table. Hey, Savannah, I love what you just
Speaker 1: said about different types of technology. If you allow me,
Speaker 1: I just want to draw on some of my reporting
Speaker 1: experiences of the last few years. I was reporting on
Speaker 1: self driving and I had a conversation with Aisha Evans,
Speaker 1: the CEO of Zoos, about this very topic, and she
Speaker 1: made a very simple point. They're designing a product, right,
Speaker 1: it is a future product that doesn't exist now, a
Speaker 1: fully self driving vehicle, no steering wheel, no pedals. But
Speaker 1: her point was very simple. If you're designing something that
Speaker 1: is for people of all genders and creeds, you have
Speaker 1: to have those people involved in the process, otherwise the
Speaker 1: product doesn't reflect your market audience. Is that same principle
Speaker 1: applicable to the metaverse. Absolutely, It's the same kind of
Speaker 1: ideal about technology and future focused sort of living, working
Speaker 1: and play. Right, So the ideas are generally the same
Speaker 1: that if you want everyone to participate and you want
Speaker 1: to have a profitable product, that you make sure that
Speaker 1: everyone has a voice in that so that you actually
Speaker 1: are a company that can thrive in the next generation.
Speaker 1: So what do you want Meta and companies like Meta
Speaker 1: to do, Savannah. You know, Meta dominates the market for
Speaker 1: virtual augmented reality headsets right now. They're kind of the
Speaker 1: real world manifestation of the metaverse. What can they do
Speaker 1: to solve this problem? Well, I think it's pretty simple
Speaker 1: that you just need to do an outreach to those
Speaker 1: large groups of people who are sitting here waiting to
Speaker 1: actually participate. I think what we look at is Web
Speaker 1: three is already starting to prove that there are individual
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs who are out here innovating and creating for the
Speaker 1: next generation. So if you want to participate and you
Speaker 1: are not already in Web three, then you're going to
Speaker 1: have to reach out to the people here who are
Speaker 1: building and who are creating. So Meta isn't just there
Speaker 1: as the only company that is making a difference here,
Speaker 1: it's actually some of the independent entrepreneurs who are We
Speaker 1: did see, particularly perhaps in the n f T space,
Speaker 1: women coming together. A lot of it was spelt celebrity
Speaker 1: endorsed in some way, but coming together and trying to
Speaker 1: say let's build in that way. It's like art that's
Speaker 1: reflective of women. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: art that got made was basically hot women, which I
Speaker 1: don't think is actually all that inclusive. But I'm interested
Speaker 1: in what you think can be done in here and
Speaker 1: now that stops. For example, when Apple first released its
Speaker 1: health app, They're not being a period tracker like that
Speaker 1: was sort of an evidence in that particular formal web
Speaker 1: two where a lack of female engineers and building the
Speaker 1: software had an im what's being lost now on what
Speaker 1: is well optimistically being built by the women and the
Speaker 1: people that call it already at the table. So I
Speaker 1: think what's being missed now is that the opportunity to
Speaker 1: actually have a very expansive idea of what the metaverse
Speaker 1: can be because I think what we often look at
Speaker 1: is just the technology, but we don't think about how
Speaker 1: the technology can actually solve centurial problems, right, And I think, like,
Speaker 1: for example, we have a health care system that is
Speaker 1: really crippled, right, and if we can find ways to
Speaker 1: actually look at it across the globe as how everyone
Speaker 1: is innovating and sort of bringing that together into how
Speaker 1: the metaverse can be used to solve that sort of problem,
Speaker 1: that would be fantastic. Um. I actually think that, UM,
Speaker 1: when you think about how women participate here. They don't
Speaker 1: really want to casual sort of hyped focused opportunity. They
Speaker 1: want to really deeply be engage, whether it's about healthcare
Speaker 1: or whether it's about the way that they live and
Speaker 1: they exercise. They want everything to be lifestyle and have
Speaker 1: real user experience here. And that is what women bring
Speaker 1: to this. And I think with respect to how you
Speaker 1: thought about the art and you you mentioned n f
Speaker 1: T s, I think the people who are artists really
Speaker 1: want to reap the benefit of actually having built something
Speaker 1: that people appreciate. And in previous generations, once they sold
Speaker 1: their piece of art, they never really saw any benefit
Speaker 1: of that later on until the n f T gives
Speaker 1: them an opportunity to actually reap that benefit for many
Speaker 1: generations to come an art that is more diverse in
Speaker 1: and of its very function and form. We want to
Speaker 1: thank so much women ext Meta founder and CEO Savannah Dago,
Speaker 1: and thank you have a wonderful Thanksgiving sticking with the
Speaker 1: metabus thinking about actually n f T s and thanksgiving
Speaker 1: it and if your sold that Macy's it's doing its
Speaker 1: first ever n f T parade balloon basically right here,
Speaker 1: right now, and can go on and vote what you
Speaker 1: want this non fungible token element of a balloon to
Speaker 1: look like, and then it will be your reality in
Speaker 1: real life. Come. It feels extraordinary timing to be doing this,
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of hopeful that these sorts of brands,
Speaker 1: very old brands, are still very much focused on the
Speaker 1: digital and they're here and there now. Macy's Parade is
Speaker 1: a mainstay for a lot of households. They're splitting this audience.
Speaker 1: I don't know which one I'm tuning into that. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1: I Meanwhile, coming up, we've got so much more to
Speaker 1: get ahead of our Thanksgiving turkeys. The case of bitcoin,
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss going forward and how regulation will
Speaker 1: shape crypto markets as a bloom bug. Bitcoins hash rate
Speaker 1: is at an all time high, and that is a
Speaker 1: real indication of the security of the network uh ethereum.
Speaker 1: We're seeing the total value uh staked at twenty four billion,
Speaker 1: That is an all time high, so we think the
Speaker 1: infrastructure is working beautifully. Our convests. Kathy would justifying recent
Speaker 1: investments that she's made in coin base in crypto, and
Speaker 1: she's sticking with her prediction that bitcoin will hit a
Speaker 1: million dollars by twenty thirty or, of course, despite the
Speaker 1: current fura around the fallout of f t X, as
Speaker 1: Sam Magnun freed Johnny us now to discuss all of this,
Speaker 1: at least Killeen, founder managing partner at still Mark VC,
Speaker 1: who invests in bitcoin related companies, and to that end,
Speaker 1: at least, how much has your world been overshadowed by
Speaker 1: what currently is unfolding with f t X, which is
Speaker 1: sort of a centralized part of the decentralized future And hope,
Speaker 1: but I'm interested in whether you've found an uprooting of
Speaker 1: your world too, Caroline ad The biggest lesson here is
Speaker 1: that the value is in bitcoin and self custody and
Speaker 1: not crypto, and that's a lesson that we get in
Speaker 1: every bare market when the tide goes out. So as
Speaker 1: a long term equity investors, still Mark is focused on
Speaker 1: the accruel and build of sustainable value and enterprise value specifically,
Speaker 1: and that hasn't changed in any fundamental way. Instead, I
Speaker 1: think what's happened here, I hope the silver lining is
Speaker 1: that fraud and dishonest narrative has been washed out, which
Speaker 1: is necessary for the ecosystem to advance as a whole.
Speaker 1: And hopefully we get back to the fundamental questions of
Speaker 1: what we're all doing here and why bitcoin is important. Well,
Speaker 1: at least let's get to that fundamental question. I always
Speaker 1: keep a bitcoin shart handy, as one does, and you know,
Speaker 1: go back to November eight, November ninth, that's where the
Speaker 1: sort of Sam Bankman freed contagion. Look at the far
Speaker 1: right hand side of your screen, like, that's where it happened.
Speaker 1: But between June and October this year we've traded sideways
Speaker 1: on bitcoin. What is the fundamental driver of this cryptocurrency
Speaker 1: long term? What gives you the faith? What gives Kathy
Speaker 1: would the faith that it will reach cry a highs
Speaker 1: of course, So first of all, bitcoin fundament fundamentals are intact.
Speaker 1: What's historically been important for bitcoin is adoption, of course,
Speaker 1: in the expansion of bitcoin's utility set, and that is
Speaker 1: all progressing at an incredibly rapid clip. We saw, Kathy
Speaker 1: would note that bitcoin's hash rates up, meaning Bitcoin is
Speaker 1: increasingly secure, and in addition to that, we're seeing bitcoin
Speaker 1: holders become more sophisticated. So as an example, after the
Speaker 1: ftx collapse, that there was a spike a peak in
Speaker 1: the sale of hardware devices that can allow bitcoin holders
Speaker 1: to hold and secure their own bitcoin. Something notable about
Speaker 1: this fair market, also from a bitcoin markets perspective, is
Speaker 1: that we see less volatility and we did in the
Speaker 1: last bearer market, which is an indication of an increasing
Speaker 1: level sophistication and market participants, and of course also reflects
Speaker 1: higher trading volumes in contrast to the prior of our market.
Speaker 1: What I'm interested in is thinking more about the ecosystem.
Speaker 1: You say, it's getting built still a lit a very
Speaker 1: quick clip. What helps or hinders right now? Is interesting
Speaker 1: that in the state of New York, Kathy Hokel, the
Speaker 1: governor today sort of talking about a moratorium on crypto mining,
Speaker 1: and that seems to be explicitly more about a proof
Speaker 1: of work rather than proof of stake and just basically
Speaker 1: energy efficiency here. But how much does that hinder perhaps
Speaker 1: the overall focus on hash rates, on bitcoin as a
Speaker 1: process and indeed building around it. Well that's a very
Speaker 1: interesting point because actually that was one of SPF and
Speaker 1: f t x is pet lobbying memes, which is that
Speaker 1: proof of work is something that is inherently a malevolent activity,
Speaker 1: but of course we know it's necessary to be able
Speaker 1: to secure a centralized ledger like the Bitcoin ledger. And
Speaker 1: in addition to that, we know that proof of work
Speaker 1: is quickly shifted to relying on sustainable energy sources, and
Speaker 1: in fact, I think it offers the opportunity for other
Speaker 1: industries to take an example of what can be done
Speaker 1: in adopting sustainable energy sources, which of course also have
Speaker 1: the capitalistic benefit of being very cheap, and miners compete
Speaker 1: for cheap energy um and so a note here on
Speaker 1: one of the other benefits of fraud and dishonesty being
Speaker 1: washed out of the system to some degree is that
Speaker 1: f TX leveraged their their novel and native joke and
Speaker 1: f t T to boost their assets and likely as
Speaker 1: collateral to access loans. And with that money they did,
Speaker 1: they created sort of a really quick scaling in both
Speaker 1: their size and in their power and perceive authority, including
Speaker 1: in front of regulators. And so what they did with
Speaker 1: that was trying to impugne often the virtues of the ecosystem,
Speaker 1: which is pit coin to approve of work. And so
Speaker 1: I hope that by seeing or finding that some of
Speaker 1: the leaders that regulators might have felt trust for seeing
Speaker 1: them their operations be made transparent and having dishonesty or
Speaker 1: misdirection revealed will allow regulators some time and space to
Speaker 1: ask the hard questions that lead them to better sort
Speaker 1: of discovery understanding the truth. Okay, still Mark VC founder
Speaker 1: and managing partner, at least clean Going viral today is
Speaker 1: a Bloomberg scoop on Amazon's big plan for its content
Speaker 1: budget when we've been making tiktoks about it, because Amazon
Speaker 1: will spend more than a million dollars a year to
Speaker 1: produce movies that will release in theaters, and the largest
Speaker 1: commitment to cinema by any Internet company according to sources.
Speaker 1: Now that would be what twelve or fifteen movies per year,
Speaker 1: and the news sent AMC cinemak shares powering higher because
Speaker 1: Amazon has been somewhat of an ally to these theater groups,
Speaker 1: while other streamers like Netflix have sort of struggled with
Speaker 1: their strategy to release content on their service in theaters
Speaker 1: or indeed simultaneously between the two. That said, though, of course,
Speaker 1: Netflix actually releases dozens more movies a year compared to
Speaker 1: what Amazon. Producers bart Amazon did like to get into theaters,
Speaker 1: remember when it first acquired movies and film festivals. Eventually
Speaker 1: earning Academy Award nominations for The Big Sick and for
Speaker 1: Manchester by the Sea, and then went on more recently
Speaker 1: to buy film studio MGM. And despite declining ticket sales, filmmakers,
Speaker 1: Hollywood veterans, talent representatives are all pushing for media companies
Speaker 1: to embrace theaters. And then I really think this is
Speaker 1: evidence of their commitment to MGM and the fact that
Speaker 1: people perhaps do want to consume movies in different kinds
Speaker 1: of ways. Remember when Amazon bought MGM. Key names from
Speaker 1: MGM left producer Jackie Lopez in my ear Manchester by
Speaker 1: the Sea. But I can't really name another big hit
Speaker 1: from Amazon. I did love Rings of Power. That's a
Speaker 1: TV series, right, interesting to see what happens. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: fact that they're doing is two pronged approach. Now meanwhile,
Speaker 1: of course, and that does it for this edition of
Speaker 1: Broombag Technology. And of course we're breaking taking a break
Speaker 1: on TV for Thanksgiving, but follow us on social hay yep,
Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts. This is Bloomberg