1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. In addition to being a beautiful woman, 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: Sage Steele is a very talented woman. She was a 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: talented broadcaster at ESPN, where she was a sports center anchor, 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: and where she was a woman in a man's world. 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: She came into the sporting world as a woman pretty 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: early in that phase. And I've never been a big 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: fan of women in men's sports. I don't care if 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: you don't like me for that. I think a lot 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: of men feel that way. They just won't be honest 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: with you about it. I've always found it to be 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: a distraction, and I've always found that the networks are 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: trying too hard to show us that women can talk 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: about sports. Of course they can, but must they? Is 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: that really necessary? But I've always felt that Sage Steele 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: wasn't a distraction. She was never trying to be you know, 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: look at me, I'm so smart. She actually fit in 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: like one of the guys. And I will tell you 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: that I consider that to be a great compliment. Again, 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: I realize that saying that will annoy a lot of people. 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to be honest, 21 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: and I would hope you would respect at least that, 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: But when the woke got to be too much, Sage 23 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: Steele stood up to it and it cost her her career. 24 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: Now she pivoted, she does other things. She's also a mom, 25 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: she's now podcasting. But I think she has developed a 26 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: whole new fan base of people who deeply respect her. 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: And that's different than being a SportsCenter anchor an ESPN 28 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: just talking about sports. I think people admire Sage Steele 29 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: because I do so. Here she is telling her story 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: of how she took on ESPN's woke culture, sue Disney, 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: which owns ESPN, and reclaimed her life. This week we 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: seek to amplify the story of Sage Steele. Here she 33 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: is talking about how she found strength to take on 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: one of the world's most powerful companies and the lessons 35 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: she learned. I hope you'll amplify her story and share 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: it with others, and I hope it will inspire you 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: to be brave and bold as she has been and 38 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: continues to be. 39 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 2: How did this shy kid who just wanted to talk 40 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: about sports for a living sue the Walt Disney Company 41 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: in ESPN to stand up for freedom of speech and 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: Fourth Moment rights like I don't know how that happened. God, 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: one hundred percent. God. 44 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: When you do the right thing, you suddenly have more 45 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: hours in the day. It's really unbelievable. 46 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: The reason I filed the damn lawsuit is because I 47 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: want these companies to know that we will know longer 48 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: accept it. 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 4: Do you think America is a racist country? Is it? 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: I get so mad when people say that you can 51 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 2: be a girl today, a boy tomorrow, and a cat 52 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: on Thursday. Right, That's fine, but I couldn't be a 53 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: conservative with my gender and my skin color. Too many 54 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: people feel scared to death of their companies, Like, I 55 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: get it, but just know that you. 56 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 4: Are not alone, Sage Steele. 57 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 3: Let's have the conversation we had in the green room 58 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 3: right here over in front of the whole world. 59 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 5: Buckle up, buscle. 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: So for those who are living under a rock and 61 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: don't know about your story, I want to just get 62 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 3: right into it. And I actually think it's going to 63 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 3: be so fascinating to walk through your story now, several 64 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: years later, where you can really talk about everything. There's 65 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 3: another little Sage Steel somewhere out there who is probably 66 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 3: going through what you have gone through and has no guidance, 67 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: has little courage and doesn't really have a role model 68 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 3: to follow to note that things will be okay. 69 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 4: And boy, you are okay. You are okay. 70 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: And so I want the little sage steel and I'm 71 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: sure they're both women and men to hear what you 72 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: went through and how you came out of it an 73 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: absolute warrior. 74 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 5: Oh gosh. 75 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: First of all, thank you and thank you for inviting me. 76 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: Conversations are what life is about for me today and 77 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: always have. It's always what it's been like. But I 78 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: was never really allowed to, you know, and you work 79 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: on live news show. I was in Sports Center for 80 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: all those years, and it's like I gotta go, go, go, 81 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: go go, And so it's been awesome to be able 82 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: to do it on my own show, and to be 83 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: able to do this with you, like I never thought 84 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: to be allowed to. 85 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 5: This is a big deal. 86 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: To be able to actually talk forget about cameras and 87 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: just go It was a I ended up so crazy. 88 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 5: How did this shy kid believe or not? 89 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: And I still feel that way sometimes I get shy 90 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: and I have to like. 91 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 5: Flip the switch. 92 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: How did this shy kid who just wanted to talk 93 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: about sports for a living and tell stories of great 94 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: athletes and their why sue Walt, the Walt Disney Company 95 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: and ESPN to stand up for her freedom of speech 96 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: and first moment rights, like I don't know how that happened. 97 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 5: God, un'd percent. God. 98 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: I am learning now the why, and I think that's 99 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: been really important in the last I've been gone from 100 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: ESPN for like fifteen sixteen months after sixteen and a 101 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: half years there, which was my ultimate dream when I 102 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: was a little girl to work there, and I did it. 103 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: I did it at the highest level, and I'm literally 104 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: so grateful for every moment there. I wouldn't change any 105 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: of it. But I thought, just innocently, you know, gave 106 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: my opinion on the COVID vaccine mandate, not the vaccine itself, 107 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: but being forced to get the shot to keep my job. 108 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: This is in September October of twenty twenty one, so 109 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: it's been three years since I said what I said 110 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: and then got punished for it. 111 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: What was the punishment when you said, Well, first of all, 112 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: what did you say exactly? 113 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 4: I'm sure you've memorized it. I kind of have. 114 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: I was on a podcast with Jay Cutler for the 115 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: Non Sports fans out there. The former Bears and Broncos 116 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: quarterback he would retire and started a new podcast, and 117 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,559 Speaker 2: his publicist had said, Hey, he's done two shows. 118 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 5: He wants to have a woman come on with Jay. 119 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 5: I was like, sure. 120 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: I talked about him a lot on Sports Center and 121 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: did a bunch of highlights for low lights of his 122 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 2: and Cheryl come on. Seems like a nice guy, and 123 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 2: he was prepared. He did his homework on things that 124 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: I had spoken about in the past that maybe weren't 125 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: a big deal then, but we're more so in twenty 126 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 2: twenty one, and I had literally just come from getting 127 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: the vaccine that I had to get to keep my job, 128 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: and I was devastated that I was forced to do 129 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 2: something to my body that I didn't want to, And 130 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: so I was running hot and in hindsight, like I 131 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: literally came from getting the shot that I cried during 132 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 2: to running home, flip up my laptop and open it 133 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: up and get on a zoom and I had a 134 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: short sleeve shirt on with a band aid on my 135 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: shoulder and literally didn't even really remember realize it because 136 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,799 Speaker 2: I was in a rush. 137 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 5: He's like, what's that band aid? 138 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 4: Oh? He asked you during the show. 139 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 5: What's the band aid for? Well, I got my shot today. 140 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 6: I didn't want to do it. I work for a 141 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 6: company that mandates it, and I had until September thirtieth 142 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 6: to get it. 143 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 5: Done or I'm out. 144 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 6: I respect everyone's decision, I really do, but to mandate 145 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 6: it is sick. 146 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: And then what I was like, I just kind of 147 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: laughed because I thought, uh oh, like I was hot. 148 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 5: I was angry. 149 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: I was pissed off that I had been forced to 150 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: do this, and so I was like, well, I just 151 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: came back from getting my shot. I had to get 152 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: to keep my job, and I said, I think it's 153 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: sick and scary for any employer, and mine happens to 154 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: be Disney, to force somebody to do something to their 155 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: body that they don't want. 156 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 5: But I have a job that I love and. 157 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: A job that I need, frankly, and I had no 158 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: choice and I'm complying. That's what I said, sick and 159 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: scary about the Disney mandate. And so when the podcast 160 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: hit the first week of October twenty twenty one, you know, 161 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: I started to get texts and phone calls from bosses 162 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: and my agent at the time, and you know, my boss, 163 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: who was second in command to ESPN at the time, 164 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: was like, did you get permission to do this? I'm 165 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: like no, I mean, no one gets permission. 166 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 5: Stephen A. Smith is eight hundred podcasts and shows. 167 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 4: To talk about your body? 168 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: Well, permission to do a podcast any interview without asking 169 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: them first? Okay, you have to ask to breathe there, 170 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: and that was part of the official rules, but none 171 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: of us really followed them like all that. You know, 172 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: I was on a podcast with the former quarterback I 173 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: worked in pan It made sense, but we talked about 174 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: social issues. Other people were allowed to do whatever they 175 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: wanted and I didn't even think about it because everybody 176 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 2: just did their thing and it got big quickly. And 177 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: basically it was that I had criticized my employer and 178 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to do that. And so the punishment 179 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: answer your question was to first of all, publicly apologize. 180 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: I had to issue a written statement, which they then 181 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: followed up with a statement of their own. So I 182 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: was apologizing for criticizing the company. I couldn't say the 183 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 2: word Disney. I could not say Disney. I had to 184 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: say the company. That was a mandate. And then I 185 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: apologized for putting them in a tough position, I guess, 186 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: by talking about the shot. And then they followed up 187 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: with a statement of you know, well, while we respect 188 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 2: everyone's opinions, we don't we don't and we're going to 189 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: shot her down. And so I got suspended. They don't 190 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: like to use that word, but it was suspended with pay, 191 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 2: but suspended, taken off the air for almost two weeks. 192 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: And you know, at that time I would have been content, 193 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: I guess, with just that. The problem is the punishment 194 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: continued and assignments were taken away from me, and I thought, Okay, 195 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to publicly apologize. I think this is wrong, 196 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: but I'm gonna do it because I was scared, and 197 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 2: I was told that if I don't apologize, then I 198 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: will be fired. So of course, as a I mean, 199 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: I'm divorced, and I'm one hundred percent financially responsible for 200 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: everyone in my family, even the one I'm not married 201 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: to anymore. 202 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 5: Like, the pressure was immense, and I was scared to death. 203 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's your dream job, job, you wor. 204 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: Work bought off for all those years, thirty years and so, 205 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: but the thought of being fired, it was real and 206 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 2: I said, Okay, I'll do whatever it takes. It should 207 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: be apology, even though I disagreed on it, and then 208 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 2: sat out for twelve days whatever it was, and then 209 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 2: came back to work and was told, you know how 210 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: many people hated me, and I need to call certain 211 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: members of my team and coworkers to apologize for other 212 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: things I had said too in that podcast about women 213 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: being more responsible for what we wear in professional settings, 214 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: and that's just my opinion and my experience working in 215 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: men's locker rooms for twenty five years. So that's the 216 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: reason why everybody hated me at the company, according to bosses, 217 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 2: and then of course defying being defiant by speaking out 218 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 2: against the company even though I followed their shop policy. 219 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 5: So when they kept taking assignments away though, that's. 220 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: Where it broke me because I years to earn them 221 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: and to host the Rose Parade in Pasadena every January, 222 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: or to host New York City Marathon, or some of 223 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: the pieces I've been working on for my new streaming 224 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: show that were incredible pieces of human interest with athletes 225 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: who opened up and shared their stories in tears with me, 226 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: and I was so honored. And then they stopped promoting it, 227 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: and that is when I couldn't believe it. 228 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 5: The reason I sued, though, is. 229 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: Because I thought that was unfair, willing to overlook it 230 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: when I saw them allowing my peers, fellow on air 231 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: teammates to speak their mind about social political issues, not 232 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: just privately or on separate podcasts, but on ESPN airwaves, 233 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: to talk about roversus Wade being overturned on an NBA show, 234 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: or having a moment of silence for the alleged don't 235 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: say gay rules in Florida during women's college basketball tournament. 236 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 4: Which was never said in the bill. 237 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 5: They took the time to read it and do their homework. 238 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 2: People would have probably still made up the line because 239 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: it worked and they'd get away with it. But it's 240 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 2: one thing to do it on the side, which is 241 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: what I did. I thought that was okay to give 242 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: my opinion on a shot that I complied with. It's 243 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: another thing to say these things on ESPN airwaves, on 244 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: a sports channel that has nothing to do with Roe 245 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: versus Wade or don't say Gay. The hypocrisy of that 246 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 2: is what made me say enough and call an attorney. 247 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: My attorney who's such a dear friend now, Brian Friedman, 248 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: who has saved a lot of us who have been 249 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: canceled by our networks. And I'll say that to make 250 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 2: that decision to pull the trigger and foul a lawsuit 251 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: was one of the scariest moments of my life. 252 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 5: But I knew. 253 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: I knew I had to because I'd been silent and 254 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: scared for so long, and I knew that enough was enough. 255 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 3: Where do you get those inner voices from. There's this 256 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 3: thing that we say as educators that the things that 257 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 3: are spoken to you when you were a child become 258 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: your inner voices when you become a grown up, and 259 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: oftentimes there are the things that are going to build 260 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: you or give you courage. 261 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 2: My faith has grown so much over the last I'd 262 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: say six years, you know, on a personal level, when 263 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: i had to make the decision to leave my marriage 264 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: and I've been married for twenty years almost to the day, 265 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: twenty seven years total, first boyfriend. 266 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 5: I ever had. Wow, that's all I knew. Three beautiful kids. 267 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: So in order to get there, I had to dive 268 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: deep on my faith, even though it was a scary decision. Obviously, 269 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: I'm Catholic, like you don't do that, and I'm not 270 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: a quitter, so like, you don't, you don't get divorced. 271 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: So that happened to me much more important than the 272 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: professional stuff. But when I had dug deep on my 273 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 2: faith with that and talked to my priest and talk 274 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: to people I really trusted, and then I learned to 275 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: trust myself, and those voices that I know for me 276 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 2: were spiritual. I'm like, if I could get through that, 277 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: then I can do this, and so I need to 278 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: continue to dive deeper. 279 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 4: And I. 280 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: Really felt like I got so many signs in both 281 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: situations personally and professionally to make the decisions that I made. 282 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: I also remember being on the floor literally because when 283 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: I got suspended for speaking up primarily about that the 284 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: vaccine mandate, I'm sitting at home and I then got really, really, 285 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: really really sick with COVID, the thing that the shot 286 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: was supposed to prevent me from getting. I was literally 287 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: on the verge of driving myself to the hospital. 288 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 5: I was not good. 289 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: And then these headlines kept coming out about you know, 290 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: all the people were making up lies to become part 291 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: of the story of how terrible of a person I am, 292 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: And one headline in particular just got me and broke 293 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: me for some reason, was on the ground because they 294 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: didn't have the energy to get back up. And my 295 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: parents had driven up from Pennsylvania because I knew I 296 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: was scared and alone and sick and they shouldn't have come. 297 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: My dad has two kinds of cancer and this is 298 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and COVID and you're not supposed to 299 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: be around. And it's proof that when you know, as parents, 300 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: would do whatever it takes. And so they came and 301 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: got their fifth year old daughter up off the floor 302 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: and was like, you're not gonna let this break you. 303 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: So my parents, who've been through so much just to 304 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: you know, survive as an interracial couple in the early 305 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, like so much bigger than what I've been through. 306 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: When I saw them walk in and help me, and 307 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: then thinking about what they'd been through, and finally thinking 308 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: about the prayer that my dad had just thrilled unto 309 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: us as kids, I knew I had to do this 310 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: and that prayer. He's a nineteen seventy West Point graduate, 311 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: and as kids, I have two younger brothers. He made 312 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: us memorized part of the Cadet prayer, and that part 313 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: is helped me to choose the harder right instead of 314 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: the easier wrong, and to never be content with a 315 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: half truth when the whole truth can be one. 316 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 5: So the harder right. 317 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: I was so annoyed that I knew what the heart 318 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: to right was because I knew I couldn't be silent 319 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 2: like no more, I've been silent in my whole life 320 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: and so afraid to stand up afraid for good reason. 321 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 5: Look what happened when I was just being myself. 322 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: God forbid. You can be yourself in every other way. 323 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: You can be a girl today, a boy tomorrow, and 324 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: a cat on Thursday. Right, that's fine, But I couldn't 325 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: be a conservative with I guess my gender and my 326 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: skin color. So I knew what the heart of right was. 327 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 2: And then I you know, the second half. 328 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 5: Of that prayer. 329 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: I could never be content if I was only telling 330 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: the half truth, because the whole truth was right here. 331 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 5: So that's stupid prayer that he made me memorize. 332 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 2: My stupid prayer, same like was right before my eyes, 333 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: and I preached that to my kids too. So if 334 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 2: I didn't follow that at my lowest, most vulnerable point, 335 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: when my little sports world was watching and laughing because 336 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: I'd been silenced, which is what they wanted. Then shame 337 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: on me, and I'm a hypocrite. So that faith that 338 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: came with all the things, and in particular that prayer 339 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: that had got me through so much when I was 340 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 2: thinking about getting divorced, then I knew I would have 341 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 2: to forever be quiet, and I could not do that. 342 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 3: There is just something that you said that keeps ringing 343 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: in my head, and that was you made a comment 344 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 3: while you were working for ESPN about how women were 345 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 3: more were supposed to focus more on what they were 346 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 3: than what they say, and they get upset that you 347 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: said that, Yet they wanted to control you and make 348 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 3: sure that you don't say what they don't want. 349 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 4: You to say. 350 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: You're right, So how did your colleagues and friends twenty 351 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 3: plus years of work react to you speaking out? 352 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 5: The silence was deafening. 353 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: They didn't call you in secret and say stage we're 354 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 3: behind you, we get it. No, we're sorry, We're sorry 355 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 3: this is happening to you. We can't say anything publicly, 356 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 3: but we're going to put a big hat on and 357 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: come and support you. There wasn't even support behind the scenes. 358 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 2: No, I will admit that that part is still hard, 359 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: you know, especially some of the young women who came 360 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 2: after me at IDIOESPN, and you know, i'd been there 361 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: a few years, and I really it was important to 362 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: me to welcome them because I had not felt welcomed 363 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 2: when I started in two thousand and seven, a different 364 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: era completely all together. And I had gone about for 365 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: some of those women when they were going through some 366 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 2: things or just had questions, and so for them to 367 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 2: I never expected anybody to publicly support me because I 368 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: know what comes with that. That is scary and it 369 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: could be career suicide. So I never expected that it 370 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: was the human level. It was just that human part 371 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 2: of like just we're friends and just you see that 372 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 2: I'm broken right now, just to reach out and just 373 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: you know. And so to not have that part that 374 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: that changed me. 375 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 5: Hardened me for a little bit. 376 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: And now I'm glad because gosh, my circle is a 377 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: lot smaller and healthier. 378 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 5: And I needed that. 379 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: Because it was probably too big because I've always been 380 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: the I just try to do too much. I'm still 381 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: working on that, but like such a pleaser in every way, 382 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: and I want to make sure. I wanted to make 383 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 2: sure these other young women didn't feel the way I 384 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 2: did coming in as a young mother. When I started 385 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: at ESPN, my kids were eleven months old, two and four, 386 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: and this is an O seven, this is you know, 387 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 2: it was still very much a boys club. And then 388 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 2: the girls, the women who were there were not the nicest, 389 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: that's for damn sure. So I just never wanted others 390 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: to feel that way. And then before I knew it, 391 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: I was one of the veterans, and so I was like, 392 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: let me help them, and then I went to bat 393 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: for a lot of them, and then silence. I wouldn't 394 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: ever change it, though, I will continue to go to 395 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: bat for any young woman or man, because I know 396 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 2: what it feels like when no one does that for 397 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 2: you when you need it, when you're not asking for something, 398 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: but you're just scared, because this is an ugly industry, 399 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 2: you know. So I promise you I have no regrets. 400 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: There's no bitterness at all from those women who chose 401 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 2: to stay silent and men. My best friends were men silent. 402 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,239 Speaker 2: But that's because they're afraid. And I know that it 403 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 2: takes a lot to push through that fear, so I 404 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 2: respect it. But I also I'm like, okay, onward then, 405 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 2: you know, and I'm glad. And it also taught me 406 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: how few people do have strength, and again I get it. 407 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: But I know now that I need to be around 408 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: like minded people, not necessarily people who are going to go, 409 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 2: you know, drop and see their company, you know, especially 410 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: when you're still working there, which is another thing was 411 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: kind of crazy and unique about my situation. 412 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 5: But I can't. Oh, I can't handle weakness. I can't, 413 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 5: you know. 414 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 3: It's the other thing is being around real people who 415 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 3: want to live a real life. And so there are 416 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 3: two components to that. One is these people are not real, 417 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 3: they're not authentic. The friendship is not real and authentic 418 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 3: because when my friends hurt, I hurt. But the other 419 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 3: part of it is that they are not living a 420 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 3: real life. I mean, they're controlled, they can't say what 421 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 3: they know, they have to live in fear, and that 422 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: that must be very heavy for them as well. 423 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 2: I know it is because it was for me, and 424 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: I felt like I didn't have a choice for a 425 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 2: long time either because of the financial obligations. 426 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: I told you, well, they'll give you the lollipop and 427 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 3: just take it away, and so you're like, give it 428 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 3: back to me. 429 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 4: And they're like, well, we'll give it back to you 430 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 4: if if right. 431 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 2: It is the gold and handcuffs in many ways, and 432 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 2: especially when you've this is your childhood dream and you've 433 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 2: worked your whole life, and it takes a long time. 434 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: It used to take a long time to really build 435 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: to get there, especially once you achieved that childhood dream, 436 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: Like are you gonna throw it away over this or that? 437 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 2: So I understand more than anyone, but at the end 438 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: of the day, you know, for a while, and even 439 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 2: with my decision to take the vaccine to get the shot, 440 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 2: which I. 441 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 5: Still really struggle with, I felt like I caved. I 442 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 5: really am. 443 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 2: I've forgiven myself because I had to do what I 444 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: had to do at that moment to survive three years ago, 445 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 2: a very different time than now, certainly, and companies have stopped. 446 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 2: It's magic, right, how all of a sudden, nobody's forcing 447 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: it and it just goes away, like oh, I just 448 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: want to you know. 449 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 3: And by the way, those who are on the other 450 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 3: side of it, do not look at you with this 451 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 3: thing that you need to carry some sort of shame, right, 452 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 3: And everybody should just make their own decisions. 453 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 5: That's all we wanted so I said to Maxiny. 454 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: Make your own decision, and if you made the decision, 455 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 3: then you changed your mind. 456 00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 4: That's okay too. 457 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: Is it was more for me, such a principled person 458 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: in so many ways. But again there's there's fear, and 459 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 2: I literally didn't know what I was gonna do. So well, 460 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: people sit and thank you, and I'm better now it's 461 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 2: been three years. But when people say to me, you 462 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 2: had a choice and you chose to do it, they're right. 463 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 2: I did make that choice, which is why I understand 464 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: the fear. 465 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 5: But I also know this. It will eat you up. 466 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: The fear will eat you up, and the silencing, at 467 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: least in my experience, it'll eat you up. And that's 468 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: kind of what it did. So when I made the 469 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: decision to speak up, I threw it all away. I 470 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 2: had an incredible contract at ESPN and a relatively speaking 471 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 2: in that way, easy life with a good schedule, high pressure, 472 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: a lot of stress, all the things. But like, I 473 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 2: did throw it all away, and I did not have 474 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 2: an idea where my next page was coming from, and 475 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: I'm still working on that. So I get the fear thing, 476 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 2: but I also I'm like, okay, that's on you. Then, 477 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: because you're never gonna there will never be a perfect 478 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: time to take that leap and to really take a 479 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: chance on yourself and just go for it. And without 480 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 2: my faith full circle, without my faith, I would never have. 481 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 5: Been able to do it. 482 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: And I have seen Marsa that like, the more I 483 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: have let go of control, especially in the last like 484 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: six months, the beautiful things that are happening are insane, 485 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 2: and I am so grateful. 486 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 5: I get emotionalized. 487 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 2: I live down in South Florida now, and I sold 488 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 2: my house in Connecticut and sold everything in it, like 489 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 2: literally everything, put some stuff in storage, and got in 490 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 2: my little car and drove twenty three hours down here 491 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 2: to start a new life by myself. And it was scary, 492 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 2: but like I shudder at the thought of what had 493 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: happened if I had stayed comfortable and stayed fearful and 494 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 2: with good reason to stay comfortable and to just keep 495 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 2: it all perfect. Never a good time. And I'm so 496 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: passionate now about sharing that and how you can push 497 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: through fear even when you're responsible for an entire family, 498 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 2: And I just I'm so grateful. What if I hadn't 499 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 2: And then I'm preaching to my kids to take chances 500 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: and believe in themselves and then I'm going to sit quiet, 501 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: total hypocrite. So now I'm just winging it. That's kind 502 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: of fun. 503 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean it is such an amazing feeling 504 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: to feel free, right, It's worth more than any money. 505 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 3: You read the Bible, the Old Testament. You talk about 506 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 3: leaving your Egypt, right, that was your Egypt. In Egypt, 507 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: things were comfortable, and you know there was food, and 508 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 3: you know what's going to happen tomorrow. But then when 509 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 3: you have the courage to get over it and just 510 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 3: keep going and listen to God and listen to and 511 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 3: tap into yourself, that is really the meaning of everything 512 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 3: we were chatting earlier, where I told you I don't 513 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 3: work out enough and I don't eat that healthy, and 514 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: what I think sustains me, well, one is sleep, because 515 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 3: I think it's really important. 516 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 4: But more than anything, I think it's meaning. Meaning. Meaning 517 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 4: is my medicine. 518 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 3: And I think that when you are able to live 519 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 3: a free life, you can truly live a meaningful life 520 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 3: because you can tap into what God really wants you 521 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 3: to do. 522 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 4: And I really do believe that. 523 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: You're on the journey to do what you're meant to do. 524 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 3: I've been watching what you've been doing over the last 525 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 3: few months, the last few years, and just the transformation 526 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 3: that has happened in your personal life and in your 527 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 3: career is so worth sharing. And before we walked in here, 528 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 3: I just in full disclosure, I kind of encouraged you 529 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 3: to speak about what happened several years ago. And you know, 530 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 3: you're like, oh, well, what happened to ESPN. It was 531 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 3: a long time ago, and I've been on so many 532 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: shows and I've talked about this and people may know 533 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 3: about it anyway, it's a thing of the past. And 534 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 3: you know, my point is, no, it is not a 535 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 3: thing of the past. What you went through a few 536 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 3: years ago. People are going through every day right now. 537 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 3: And also the way you look at what you've gone 538 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: through a few years ago will be viewed by you 539 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 3: a little differently now because you have been touched in 540 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 3: so many ways. Your heart has expanded, your mind has expanded, 541 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 3: your visibility has expanded. That the new perspective that you 542 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 3: have now about what you went through a few years 543 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 3: ago is a whole other level. 544 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 2: You're right, and I needed that encouragement from you, my 545 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: fear and continue to speak about. It has literally only 546 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 2: been because my fear of being perceived as oh, she 547 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 2: wants sympathy or woe is me? And uh yeah, and 548 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: that's why I'm like, no, no, no, that's not me, 549 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: that's not what it is. Yeah, And you know, like 550 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: I literally just don't want anyone else to live in 551 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: fear for so long. And I want the reason I 552 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: filed the damn lawsuit is because I want these companies 553 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: to know that we will know longer accept it because 554 00:27:59,240 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: that's what they bank. 555 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's worked. 556 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 2: It's worked incredibly well to just do what they said 557 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 2: to me, like be quiet, say this, do this, sign 558 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: this or else, and there's reason for us to listen, 559 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: but absolutely not. And the strength that has come from that, 560 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I will say, I think that's probably when 561 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 2: I look back on the experience itself, from the moment 562 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 2: I got suspended to the moment I settled with Espian 563 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: Disney with twenty two months. So once I got back 564 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 2: from suspension, I mean I was on the air for 565 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: twenty two months, sixteen months with an act of lawsuit 566 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: against the. 567 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 4: Very company who had to go in there every day. 568 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: Every day, every single day. So I think if I 569 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: look back, because when you're in it, you're just like, Oh. 570 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: That's probably what I'm most proud of, because I felt 571 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: sick to my stomach every day for twenty two months 572 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: and especially the sixteen months once I filed the lawsuit, 573 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: and to walk back in there the next day after 574 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: it had hit that I'm suing Disney ESPN. Like nobody 575 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: he does usually wait to sue somebody after you're gone, 576 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: but I I couldn't. I didn't have that luxury. It 577 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: had to be kind of now or never. So I 578 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 2: think you would like this though, because when my parents 579 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 2: came and lifted me off the ground, and like all 580 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: the the day I went back to work, my best 581 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: friend was there, Tiffany, who was also my makeup bars, 582 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 2: who had a lot to fix that day and every 583 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 2: day since there, and my mom and dad were there, 584 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: and my dad was a former football player, amazing, amazing, 585 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 2: went back to his football modes. Okay, girls, and I'm 586 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 2: getting ready to walk out the door to drive to work, 587 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 2: to go back your time. 588 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: The first time you and your interest, your your friends 589 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: were not sponsor of our show, and it wasn't listening 590 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: to their stuff. And we're big fans and this. 591 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 5: Right and already hard to write. 592 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: By going back into work and not just running away 593 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: saying I need some. 594 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: Time and encourage you to support them. 595 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 5: Street instructions or Catholics out there. 596 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: That doctor Scott the White House basically protecting you, he 597 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: put it. 598 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: He wants to see how powerful Washington figures. 599 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: Around me, able to walk into any scenarios politicized, monetized, 600 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: depend From that moment on, when I walked out the 601 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 2: door shaped. 602 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 5: One knows face, like many. 603 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: People died because of censorship, dishonesty, and the demon is 604 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: a I left of medical. 605 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 5: Decision, I felt protected. 606 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 2: And so every day I would drive to work, and 607 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: they lived in Pennsylvania at the time. My parents said 608 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 2: I'd call them when I pulled into the parking lot 609 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 2: and I put my mess hare on before I walked 610 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: in those doors, and we would be on speakerphone and 611 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: say that prayer to protect me when I walked in. 612 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: So I felt sick every day, but I walked in 613 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 2: there and I did feel like I could do it. 614 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 5: I found this strength. 615 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 2: And it's crazy because I feel like sixteen and a 616 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: half years there, those last twenty two months, I did 617 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: my best work like I was the I feel like, 618 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: because I've always been super critical of my work, especially 619 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 2: you know, two hours of live TV every day. 620 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 4: Is a lot. 621 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: I felt so calm and so strong, and I trusted 622 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: my instincts even more doing the live stuff and the 623 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 2: interviews and winging it with highlights. 624 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 4: You're like, God's with you. 625 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. 626 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 2: The more people came at me, the more calm I felt, 627 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 2: and the better I did. I didn't realize it in 628 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: the moment, but I look back now and I'm like, 629 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: how the heck did I go in there knowing that, 630 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: like Bob Iger and everybody literally was trying to crush 631 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: me and bleed me dry financially with this stupid lawsuit. 632 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 5: So I wouldn't change a thing. 633 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: And that's why I can't shut up about it, because 634 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: too many people feel scared to death of their companies 635 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: based on the pressures, you know, to raise a family 636 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 2: or stay alive medical bills to pay Like, I get it, 637 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: but just know that you are not alone. There are 638 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 2: millions of people out there who have felt scared like 639 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: I did and just stay quiet, and that's what they 640 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 2: bank on it. And if we continue to do that, 641 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: then I think it's on us like at some point 642 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: that's on me if I choose to stay silent. 643 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 5: So I got to. 644 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 2: Help make people not be silent and realize we're in 645 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 2: this together. And the more we speak up, the more 646 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 2: they will realize they don't have the strength they think 647 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 2: that they do. 648 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 5: We are powerful. 649 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please 650 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 651 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest 652 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated 653 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: directly to the show at our email address, Michael at 654 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website, 655 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and Podcast 656 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King of Ding. Executive 657 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: producer is Chad Nakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director. 658 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance MacLean. 659 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our 660 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated 661 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not, 662 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the 663 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple 664 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally, 665 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp 666 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and 667 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling. 668 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 2: H