Speaker 1: Welcome to creature, future production of I heart radio. I'm
Speaker 1: your host of many parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology
Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show we're talking
Speaker 1: about how to play with your cat. We're looking at
Speaker 1: the evolutionary history of the house cat, their wild ancestors,
Speaker 1: some murderous cousins, and the best way to entertain your overlords, or,
Speaker 1: I guess, the best way to entertain your pets. Discovered
Speaker 1: this more as we answer the age old question. Is
Speaker 1: Kitty daydreaming about being huge and eating you? Joining me
Speaker 1: today is cat behavioral expert Michael Delgado. Welcome. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Katie. I'm so excited to talk to you
Speaker 1: about this. I grew up with cats. I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: getting a cat now. I've just got a cat proof
Speaker 1: my apartment a little more um and something about cats
Speaker 1: that I've always loved is how cryptic they are. Now,
Speaker 1: I love dogs. I think that it's amazing that we've
Speaker 1: co evolved with dogs and we have this kind of
Speaker 1: amazing communication, but there's something so cryptic about cats and
Speaker 1: and impish that I've always loved. So how how do you,
Speaker 1: as a cat behavioral expert understand them because they're so mysterious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's definitely this idea that
Speaker 1: cats are mysterious and I think to love cats, to
Speaker 1: work with cats, you do have to kind of accept
Speaker 1: that there will be a little bit of mystery. Um,
Speaker 1: there's always going to be that weird behavior that none
Speaker 1: of us can explain, even when we've been working with
Speaker 1: cats for a long time. But I do think the
Speaker 1: best way to understand cats is too interact with them
Speaker 1: and observe them carefully and, Um, do whatever else you
Speaker 1: can to learn about their behavior. They're like. You talked
Speaker 1: about their evolutionary history. I worked in an animal shelter
Speaker 1: for eight years. I of old thousands of cats during
Speaker 1: that time, observed thousands of cats. I really just spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time watching them, seeing how they reacted
Speaker 1: to things in their environment. And, as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: a shelter environment has a lot of stressors and what
Speaker 1: really piqued my interest was that cats could be so
Speaker 1: different in how they handled that environment. So some cats
Speaker 1: adjusted right away and we're like please adopt me, get
Speaker 1: me out of here, or like just make friends with me,
Speaker 1: and other cats are really frightened. Um, maybe even we're
Speaker 1: so frightened that they felt the need to bite or
Speaker 1: scratch or defend themselves. And so seeing just those, those
Speaker 1: different responses, made me even more curious. Like I have
Speaker 1: to understand cats. I've read a lot of books about cats. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's got a PhD studying animal behavior and cognition.
Speaker 1: Did Research with kittens and cats, Um and home environments.
Speaker 1: So it's been a lifelong process and I think if
Speaker 1: you think you'll ever know anything about cats, you should
Speaker 1: just give up now, because there will always be something
Speaker 1: that they do that surprises you. So I just accept
Speaker 1: that there are things that I will never understand, but
Speaker 1: at the same time it's a never ending quest to
Speaker 1: understand them better and make them happy. That's the most
Speaker 1: important thing, is to make your cats happy. I had
Speaker 1: I had two cats, grand speaking to how different they
Speaker 1: can be. I had a boy cat and a girl
Speaker 1: cat and they were the most different you could possibly get.
Speaker 1: The girl cat was she was graceful, uh, an amazing huntress.
Speaker 1: This was sort of like back in the days where
Speaker 1: you didn't really think about the devastation the cat is
Speaker 1: doing to the poor birds Um, but she was. She
Speaker 1: she had a certain mystique about her. She loved me
Speaker 1: and let me pet her, but she also was very independent.
Speaker 1: The boy cat was completely different. He couldn't kill a fly,
Speaker 1: like literally he was not able to do it. He
Speaker 1: would try and fail. He was very skittish. There was
Speaker 1: nothing graceful about him. He'd be afraid of his own poop,
Speaker 1: like he'd go to the litter box, gets scared in
Speaker 1: the middle of pooping and run out, and he was
Speaker 1: just complete goof FIS. And so it was. I think
Speaker 1: it was so interesting because I modeled my idea of
Speaker 1: what cats were based on my first cat, the female cat,
Speaker 1: that all cats are like this, and then I have
Speaker 1: this complete Dow fist of a cat and like, Huh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's very different, and I think that's that's so interesting,
Speaker 1: that they all have their own personalities, and I think
Speaker 1: it does. Are All animals like this? Like maybe we,
Speaker 1: just because we're in such close proximity to cats and dogs,
Speaker 1: were better able to like sense that they all have
Speaker 1: their own unique personalities? Or do you think it's something
Speaker 1: that's like unique to domesticated cats? No, there's actually a
Speaker 1: whole field of animal personality in biology that looks at.
Speaker 1: You know, everything from spiders to primates and everybody in between.
Speaker 1: So we know that. You know, all animals have what
Speaker 1: we call personality, which is very anthropomorphic term, but you know,
Speaker 1: some people used it's like temperament or behavioral syndromes, which
Speaker 1: sounds like an illness, but it just means that you
Speaker 1: have certain consistent ways of being in different sort of circumstances.
Speaker 1: So if you're normally fearful in one situation, you might
Speaker 1: be expected to be more fearful than other animals in
Speaker 1: a different situation. Right, that's like a personality trait and
Speaker 1: you can think about you know, certainly people are the
Speaker 1: same way. Like we know we can reasonably expect what
Speaker 1: one of our friends might do if we um joke
Speaker 1: with them or tease them. Right, and some of your
Speaker 1: friends may you may not be able to tease because
Speaker 1: they don't take it well, and other friends maybe you can,
Speaker 1: you know, just endlessly, you know, just riff with them
Speaker 1: and they go with it. So the same as true
Speaker 1: with our pets, and I do think you touched on
Speaker 1: a very important part, which is just we have domesticated
Speaker 1: cats and dogs. We live with them, we spend a
Speaker 1: lot more time with them, so we know them much better.
Speaker 1: But at the same time you also brought up something
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people get stuck in,
Speaker 1: which is they base their knowledge of cats on a
Speaker 1: very small sample of cats, which is usually the one
Speaker 1: or two cats they've lived with, and think that all
Speaker 1: cats will respond to being picked up or to being
Speaker 1: petted or to being played with in the same way.
Speaker 1: And so it's really important to look at how cats
Speaker 1: are individuals, get to know them, give them the kind
Speaker 1: of freedom to get to know you before making assumptions
Speaker 1: about how they will respond to different interactions. Probably one
Speaker 1: of the most frequent questions you get is can you
Speaker 1: train cats? Now, I think this is because, like you
Speaker 1: can train dogs, dogs are typically not all dogs, typically
Speaker 1: very eager to please. We have this kind of open
Speaker 1: line of communication, like I said, you know, we kind
Speaker 1: of CO evolved with dogs, so we are really have
Speaker 1: this kind of like amazing communication with dogs. With cats
Speaker 1: it's a little more difficult, and so the idea of
Speaker 1: training a cat is kind of bizarre, like we think
Speaker 1: of sort of with cats like no, you can't, cat
Speaker 1: is not going to be your servant. You know you're
Speaker 1: the cat's servant. But it's I think also people are
Speaker 1: very curious about that when they come across like a
Speaker 1: cat behavioral expert, like well, can't we train a cat?
Speaker 1: Can a cat walk on unleash, all these things that
Speaker 1: we think that a cat would not necessarily take two yes,
Speaker 1: cats can be trained. Um, it is different from training
Speaker 1: a dog in certain ways, because what motivates a cat
Speaker 1: is going to be a little different in many cases
Speaker 1: and what motivates a dog. And you could argue that
Speaker 1: during coevolution and domestication of dogs that we have selected
Speaker 1: them for interaction, sensitivity to human gestures, sensitivity to our mood,
Speaker 1: maybe that kind of eager to please personality that most
Speaker 1: cats are not going to have. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: all animals, including humans, learned in the same way. We
Speaker 1: we call this Um operant conditioning when we're doing training,
Speaker 1: which is just that certain behaviors lead to either desirable
Speaker 1: or unpleasant outcomes and that determines whether an animal is
Speaker 1: going to repeat that behavior in the future. So yes,
Speaker 1: cats can be trained and I think the most important
Speaker 1: thing to think about is, like why do you want
Speaker 1: to train your cat? Do you want to train them
Speaker 1: for particular things that might help you in the future,
Speaker 1: like training them to go in a cat carrier on
Speaker 1: their own, for training them to allow you to trim
Speaker 1: their nails, or maybe training them to sit on a
Speaker 1: mat quietly when you're eating your dinner rather than, you know,
Speaker 1: climbing on the kitchen table trying to steal food from you.
Speaker 1: You can also use training just to have fun with
Speaker 1: your cats, so to maybe build a better relationship and
Speaker 1: provide some mental stimulation and exercise for your cat. So
Speaker 1: that might mean training them to do cute tricks like
Speaker 1: high five or rollover, jump through a hoop Um, but
Speaker 1: you can also kind of take it as far as
Speaker 1: you want. I mean there's a cat circus in the
Speaker 1: United States Um rock cats, and I definitely recommend checking
Speaker 1: that show out if you have the opportunity, because you
Speaker 1: really see these cats are having fun and they don't
Speaker 1: always follow the script, but they can also do some
Speaker 1: really amazing behaviors. So if you want to train your cat,
Speaker 1: there's definitely some good resources. We recommend using positive reinforcement training,
Speaker 1: meaning that you give your cat treats or rewards that
Speaker 1: reinforce the Beha Vier and um they'll be more likely
Speaker 1: to do that later and there's some really great resources online.
Speaker 1: But I will say it's very easy to train a
Speaker 1: cat to sit. When you ask them to. Well, they
Speaker 1: stay for a long time. It depends. You have to
Speaker 1: make it worth their while. So you might have to
Speaker 1: provide treats occasionally to keep them in one place. But
Speaker 1: Um no, it's it's really not. The process is not different.
Speaker 1: You just have to kind of change your expectations a
Speaker 1: little bit about what that final behavior is going to
Speaker 1: look like. And you know, I think the other reason
Speaker 1: that people have this conception that cats aren't trainable is
Speaker 1: that a lot of the things they do that allow
Speaker 1: them to coexist with us don't require training. You don't
Speaker 1: need to train a cat to use a litter box.
Speaker 1: It's pretty great. If you set up a litter box
Speaker 1: that they like, it's got a nice sandy soft substrate
Speaker 1: in it and keep it clean and it's in a
Speaker 1: location they like, most cats will just gravitate towards it
Speaker 1: just automatically. You don't have to show them where it is.
Speaker 1: They figure it out. And the same is true like
Speaker 1: scratching right. We don't have to train them to use
Speaker 1: a scratching post. It's kind of like field of dreams.
Speaker 1: If you build it, they will um so, give them
Speaker 1: a good scratching post, give them several good scratching posts
Speaker 1: and put them in areas that they want to scratch.
Speaker 1: That's usually prominent areas in your home and they will
Speaker 1: just use it. So in that respect I think people,
Speaker 1: somebody think, well, they just do these things. I didn't,
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything to do with it, whereas you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of dogs you have to ask them go
Speaker 1: lay in their bed or whatever. So Um so, I
Speaker 1: think that kind of contributes to it. But the reality
Speaker 1: is it's more of the human motivation to train and
Speaker 1: I think that maybe cat owners are not as interested
Speaker 1: in controlling every aspect of their cat's behavior. Maybe they
Speaker 1: even appreciate that their cat is a little wild right.
Speaker 1: We know they're less domesticated compared to dogs as far
Speaker 1: as the impact we've had on changing their behavior and
Speaker 1: their appearance. So I think some people appreciate it. So
Speaker 1: I think you know, training, like I said, can be
Speaker 1: very practical. Train them to go into their career, when
Speaker 1: you ask train them to, let I groom them, train
Speaker 1: them to take a pill um or you know, for
Speaker 1: some people it is really fun to do them more,
Speaker 1: you know, agility, trial or more parlor tricks. I mean,
Speaker 1: as someone who's both a cat lover and a dog lover,
Speaker 1: I cannot choose between the two. I think I have
Speaker 1: wonderful pets. I have always appreciated the difference in terms
Speaker 1: of the evolutionary history of cats and dogs. Dogs have
Speaker 1: this incredible coevolution that we've had where, you know, even
Speaker 1: though we feel like, oh, we're the ones selectively breeding dogs,
Speaker 1: in a way the wolves also we're kind of self selecting.
Speaker 1: They kind of wormed their way into our hearts by
Speaker 1: being a little bolder, a little more gentle with cats,
Speaker 1: I think what I appreciate about them is they didn't
Speaker 1: really have to change all that much to fit into
Speaker 1: our society. So we kind of engaged in this partnership
Speaker 1: with cats where it's like, well, we've got grain which
Speaker 1: draws mice. You guys eat the mice and otherwise are
Speaker 1: pretty pretty relaxed, you're not dangerous. UH, maybe we'll leave
Speaker 1: out some fish and milk for you. Don't feed your
Speaker 1: cat's milk, but in the past people have done that. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know, just kind of like this interesting partnership.
Speaker 1: They'd be on ships and eat our rats and they were,
Speaker 1: you know, very, very useful to us in terms of
Speaker 1: keeping pests and even disease at bay. And they didn't
Speaker 1: have to change that much. They are relatively I mean
Speaker 1: they are different. There is a little bit of domestication,
Speaker 1: as we'll talk about in just a bit. But yeah,
Speaker 1: with dogs, it had, they had to go through a
Speaker 1: lot of changes to make them safe for humans, because
Speaker 1: if you try, even if you tame a wolf, it
Speaker 1: is still dangerous and it is not going to be
Speaker 1: a good pet. Yeah, and the chances of being killed
Speaker 1: by a cat are pretty small. They're much less threatening. Um,
Speaker 1: they're cute. I mean, yes, of course, lots. There's lots
Speaker 1: of appeal there. There's, Um, a new understanding, I think,
Speaker 1: when it comes to cats. Keeping cats indoors is more
Speaker 1: humane both for wildlife, all the uh, potentially endangered birds
Speaker 1: in your area, and also for your cat. You know,
Speaker 1: it protects them from cars, from coyotes, other predators, Um,
Speaker 1: which you know, as I mentioned, when I was a
Speaker 1: kid there was more of this idea that you just
Speaker 1: let your cat outside and what happens happens. But now
Speaker 1: I think we're for the better, changing our view of
Speaker 1: that that you know, we should be both protecting the
Speaker 1: environment and our our cats well being. But I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people worry like, well, isn't my cat
Speaker 1: going to be bored being inside all the time? Is
Speaker 1: it possible to keep a cat from being bored? Is
Speaker 1: it possible to create a fun environment indoors? It is, absolutely,
Speaker 1: but it requires some effort. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. People do think like, oh, cats just go
Speaker 1: outside and they amuse themselves all day. or The opposite
Speaker 1: is people will say like, oh well, they're a lowminance pets,
Speaker 1: so they can just sit inside all day with like
Speaker 1: nothing to do, and there is quite true. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we are increasingly recognizing that caring for a
Speaker 1: cat is not just throwing some food into a bowl
Speaker 1: and scooping the litter box every now and then, like
Speaker 1: we kind of think of those things it was essential, right,
Speaker 1: like you've gotta feed your cat, you've gotta keep the
Speaker 1: litter box claim, you should take them to the vet
Speaker 1: once a year, like and that's kind of where the
Speaker 1: conversation ends and what we really need to be thinking
Speaker 1: about is their emotional needs for social interaction, there needs
Speaker 1: for activity, mental stimulation, what we sometimes refer to as enrichment,
Speaker 1: and I think the only thing about the term enrichment
Speaker 1: is that it implies that this it's like a bonus, right.
Speaker 1: It's not a necessity. And so now we really focus
Speaker 1: on calling Um those those provisions for cat's mental well
Speaker 1: being in environmental necessities. So that would include ways for
Speaker 1: them to express natural behaviors like climbing and scratching and hiding,
Speaker 1: ways for them to express predatory behaviors. So inside our
Speaker 1: home your cat can't catch maybe more than the occasional
Speaker 1: fly or, you know, other insect that might crawl into
Speaker 1: your home. They are not going to be catching birds
Speaker 1: and mice. So we have the opportunity to give them
Speaker 1: those outlets for predatory behavior through playtime with interactive toys.
Speaker 1: We can appeal to all of their senses and make
Speaker 1: sure they have things that are, you know, activate their
Speaker 1: scent interests and that stimulate. Maybe sounds that cats like
Speaker 1: things to watch. One of my cats really loved videos
Speaker 1: of mice. So it's this thing about different ways to
Speaker 1: Um incorporate activities into their daily life that allow them
Speaker 1: to be a cat. Um You can also, I mean
Speaker 1: you mentioned this in the training part, like you can
Speaker 1: train your cat to walk on a harness and lead
Speaker 1: and take them out in your backyard or somewhere close
Speaker 1: to home that's safe and relatively quiet, not going to
Speaker 1: run into dogs or anything scary. Um, we have a
Speaker 1: cadio at my house, so we we did make the
Speaker 1: investment in building a pretty big cadio about a year
Speaker 1: ago and that was a definite game changer for our cats.
Speaker 1: They love just sitting out in the sun watching. We
Speaker 1: have a bird feeder in the backyard and they can
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time out there just watching whatever
Speaker 1: is happening, squirrels, birds, other cats, etcetera. Um. So the
Speaker 1: main thing, though, is you have to put effort into
Speaker 1: figuring out what your cat likes, Um, what they respond to,
Speaker 1: and trying new things, like don't do the same boring
Speaker 1: things every day, but introduce the novelty and Um, really
Speaker 1: think of it as again, as important as feeding them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's so interesting because, you know, this is
Speaker 1: something that is maybe more apparent when you own a dog,
Speaker 1: like your dog will get bored and they will let
Speaker 1: you know, uh, loudly and shrilly and over and over again,
Speaker 1: whereas with the cat. I don't know that they are
Speaker 1: as I mean some of them are. One of my
Speaker 1: my cat binkie growing up, would definitely let me know
Speaker 1: if he was bored. But you know, sometimes they maybe
Speaker 1: don't show it as much. Maybe they just sort of
Speaker 1: napple a lot more. But you know, we think that
Speaker 1: that's normal for them to an apple the time and
Speaker 1: but really, you know, they do need that mental stimulation
Speaker 1: just you know, they need they need soup for their
Speaker 1: soul just as much as they need soup for eating.
Speaker 1: They don't actually, I know they don't need to. They
Speaker 1: would if if we like them, but it was the
Speaker 1: right flavor. I mean, you know, it's a really important
Speaker 1: point because I think a lot of cats do end
Speaker 1: up what we would consider like depressed, with John Um
Speaker 1: really becoming more focused on food. So then we have
Speaker 1: more overweight and obesity in our pet cats and probably
Speaker 1: a lot of that is emotional overeating from boredom and stress.
Speaker 1: So it is really important to Um to create a
Speaker 1: fun environment for your cats. To me, I enjoy like
Speaker 1: bringing in a new cardboard box and putting some tissue
Speaker 1: paper and I see what my cats are going to
Speaker 1: do free television. It is, I mean it's it's fun
Speaker 1: for me, it's fun for them, and so I really
Speaker 1: encourage people to kind of find the joy in making
Speaker 1: your cat happy, kind of, like I said, of getting right.
Speaker 1: It's all about making your cat happy. So like to
Speaker 1: find what they love, if it's cat nip or Um,
Speaker 1: you know, a feather wand or both. All you know,
Speaker 1: do something different every day to training. Like there's there's
Speaker 1: lots of ways you can add to your cat's life
Speaker 1: and enhance your relationship, and I think that is going
Speaker 1: to be entertaining for you as well. UH, there's there's
Speaker 1: nothing more fun than a cat in a box. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we spend so much time on the Internet
Speaker 1: looking at videos of cats. You can have that in
Speaker 1: real life, right in front of you. Uh, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take a real quick break, but when we get back
Speaker 1: we're going to delve into the past of our domesticated
Speaker 1: cats and see how that has influenced their behavior, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to play. So we will be right back.
Speaker 1: So we are back and I am here with Michael
Speaker 1: Delgatto and we are talking about cats, how to play
Speaker 1: with them, what makes some tick, and I thought we
Speaker 1: would delve into the pasted lives of cats. So cats
Speaker 1: did not just suddenly rain down from the sky and
Speaker 1: into our laps. They were domesticated in a similar way
Speaker 1: to dogs, but also in a way that is a
Speaker 1: bit different, because they didn't really change all that much,
Speaker 1: and this is what is maybe the most surprising things
Speaker 1: about their ancestors. So the African Wildcat, Felis Libaca, is
Speaker 1: a small gray and white wild cat with dark and
Speaker 1: sandy stripes, and it really looks basically like a cat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is very hard to tell the difference, especially when
Speaker 1: it's like sitting down and you look at it and
Speaker 1: it's like this just looks like a run of the
Speaker 1: milk cat. It looks kind of like Um, one of
Speaker 1: my that that cat binkie I had growing up. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like it was it fit his personality, he was
Speaker 1: he was something else. But yeah, they are found in
Speaker 1: Africa and some true in western Asia and they are
Speaker 1: the ancestors of modern domesticated kitties. Uh, and the start
Speaker 1: of domestication. Now, correct me if anything any of this
Speaker 1: sounds wrong, but I think it was around ten thousand
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, we don't we don't know exactly. It's
Speaker 1: a it's always tricky to trace these back and there
Speaker 1: were probably potentially multiple domestication events. So again, it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to find the one definitive domestication event. Um,
Speaker 1: there some of the evidence is something like on the
Speaker 1: island of Cyprus, there's a grave, uh, where an African
Speaker 1: wildcat is buried not too far from a human. So
Speaker 1: this is evidence that this was a beloved cat, a
Speaker 1: beloved pet, and was buried with with a human, maybe
Speaker 1: its own or maybe another member of the family. So
Speaker 1: this idea that we had started to make this personal
Speaker 1: emotional connection to cats, uh, you know, at at the
Speaker 1: very least, around nine thousand years ago. Yes, yeah, and
Speaker 1: if we could get that time machine working right now,
Speaker 1: we could go back and see the details. But yeah, exactly. All,
Speaker 1: all of today's cats are considered ancestors of the African wildcat,
Speaker 1: who still existence. Yeah, they're still around, and in terms
Speaker 1: of looks, it's really hard to tell the difference. UH,
Speaker 1: some of the subtle differences are like the wild cats
Speaker 1: tend to have longer legs, they're a little bit a
Speaker 1: little taller, a little bit a little linkier. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: a little sleeker. It's a very subtle difference that it's
Speaker 1: hard to see them tell you kind of are toll
Speaker 1: that that's what's going on. But in terms of genetically
Speaker 1: they are very similar. In fact, they can still they
Speaker 1: can still mate and produce viable offspring. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: another reason to keep your cats indoors if you happen
Speaker 1: to live in regions where there are Um, some of
Speaker 1: these wildcats species like the Scottish wildcat, because actually feral
Speaker 1: cats are interfering with Um, some of these species and
Speaker 1: keeping them intact and can survive bowl right. So so, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a they're very closely related. There are some
Speaker 1: changes that happened during domestication, so we know, Um, there
Speaker 1: are some genetic signatures that changed and certain things in
Speaker 1: the brain that changed, specifically regions of the brain that
Speaker 1: have been related to reward centers and memory. So perhaps
Speaker 1: that gave cats a nudge in being able to make
Speaker 1: positive associations with humans because they had better memories and
Speaker 1: more intense reward responses. So, Hey, this humans leaving me
Speaker 1: some some delicious food. Um, maybe I'll give them another
Speaker 1: try tomorrow and maybe I'll get a little closer. Right.
Speaker 1: So that might have just been enough of a nudge
Speaker 1: over the past, you know, several thousand years, to the
Speaker 1: point where now they're like sleeping on our pillow. That
Speaker 1: is so interesting. I can definitely see that being behind
Speaker 1: the cats kind of, uh change in their attitude towards us,
Speaker 1: where it's like this this idea that, you know, actually,
Speaker 1: maybe it's worth it to stick around these weird tall
Speaker 1: things that walk onto like. And those cats would have
Speaker 1: been the ones that were, you know, willing to take
Speaker 1: advantage of those resources like extra food, would have been
Speaker 1: more successful in reproduction. So, you know, I think, Um,
Speaker 1: you touched on kind of the the whole grains and
Speaker 1: the mice and Um, you know what what actually was
Speaker 1: happening is, Um, what was called the commensal relationship, which
Speaker 1: is that the cats benefited more than the humans did
Speaker 1: because humans already had other species to take care of
Speaker 1: the rodents. So there're plenty of dogs that will take
Speaker 1: care of rodents, and also weasels. So cats were like
Speaker 1: another species that can provide us pest control. But you know,
Speaker 1: the thinking now is that the cats benefited a little
Speaker 1: bit more than the humans did. But you also touched
Speaker 1: on the fact that, you know, we haven't really imposed
Speaker 1: many behavioral changes on cats, certainly not like we did
Speaker 1: with dogs, where we had dogs kind of drift into
Speaker 1: different categories of well, this dog is good at pointing
Speaker 1: and this dog is good at guarding or this dog's
Speaker 1: good with livestock, and with cats it's just like, okay,
Speaker 1: they hunt. That works out for us, works out for them.
Speaker 1: We never asked them to change that behavior and so
Speaker 1: thousands of years later there's still a very efficient predator.
Speaker 1: It's still very much part of their nature and instinct
Speaker 1: and we have not put any pressure on them to
Speaker 1: become less of a hunter, even though we provide all
Speaker 1: their food for them if they're living indoors with us.
Speaker 1: So it's pretty cool how we've retained that little bit
Speaker 1: of wildness and really haven't done too much to them behaviorally.
Speaker 1: Now there's certainly you know, our domestic cats have a
Speaker 1: little more social flexibility as far as tolerance of other cats,
Speaker 1: whereas the African wildcat is a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a solitary hunter Um less likely to congregate in groups
Speaker 1: like we see with with domestic cats. But we also
Speaker 1: know that that congregation in domestic cats is usually highly
Speaker 1: dependent on things like the amount of resources in the
Speaker 1: environment and their early socialization around other cats. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: when there's a high density of resources, cats will tolerate
Speaker 1: each other more. Even feral populations of domesticated cats will
Speaker 1: sometimes form these colonies where they're tolerant of each other
Speaker 1: as long as resources are concentrated in high abundance, whereas
Speaker 1: you don't really see that with the African wildcats at all. No,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a good point. If you you
Speaker 1: know a lot of people with cats want to have
Speaker 1: multiple cats right. So one way to increase the chance
Speaker 1: of harmony in your home is to make sure you
Speaker 1: have lots of resources, separate feeding areas, lots of litter boxes,
Speaker 1: lots of scratching and climbing opportunities in separate areas so
Speaker 1: the cats can kind of choose to share or choose
Speaker 1: to not share. Yes, I can really sympathize with that attitude. Actually,
Speaker 1: Um and it it's it is interesting. So that those
Speaker 1: hunting behaviors that the African wildcats have and some of
Speaker 1: their other general behaviors are still exhibited by our domesticated cats,
Speaker 1: the stalking and hunting, pouncing, puffing up when they're frightened
Speaker 1: to try to appear bigger, hissing at threats, purring and mewing.
Speaker 1: But the mewing has become quite a bit different, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: mewing is primarily an adult cats, primarily directed at humans.
Speaker 1: So we believe that there's kind of a learned, uh,
Speaker 1: communication style between people that may be actually unique to
Speaker 1: that relationship even. But yet um, that's that's something that
Speaker 1: kittens due to mom. So there's kind of this implied
Speaker 1: like now and gets you attention, gets you caretaking. Um,
Speaker 1: and cats who have learned to live around humans seemed
Speaker 1: to do more of it. So they probably learned how
Speaker 1: to get our attention, get that door open and get
Speaker 1: the food in the bowl, whatever they want. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: have US wrapped around their little paw. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, African wildcats don't really Mell at humans. Their
Speaker 1: meals seem to be, like you said, like when their kittens,
Speaker 1: directed at their mother or even if they're adults, in
Speaker 1: their mewing at something is usually something in their environment.
Speaker 1: And we don't really have great data that I know of.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe you know more, but great data on why
Speaker 1: and when they mew. But it certainly is not directed
Speaker 1: at humans, whereas with domesticated cats. It is very much
Speaker 1: we are the audience for their meals and there has
Speaker 1: actually been researched on how we perceived the difference between
Speaker 1: the meals of domesticated cats and African wildcats. And in
Speaker 1: these blind hearing tests, people rate the meal of the
Speaker 1: domesticated cats as sounding sweeter, nicer, more pleasant, versus the
Speaker 1: African wildcat meal, which they are not is not quite
Speaker 1: as appealing. So that may lead some evidence towards this
Speaker 1: theory that they have tailored their meals to tug at
Speaker 1: our heart strings. Yeah, what's even Um even taking that
Speaker 1: even a step further, is that there's similar research looking
Speaker 1: at purring of cats. Now, they didn't compare different species,
Speaker 1: but what they did look at is Um different intensities
Speaker 1: of hers. So a cat who was purring because they
Speaker 1: wanted food versus just purring because they're being petted, and humans,
Speaker 1: when they didn't know which pr they were listening to,
Speaker 1: could identify that there was something qualitatively different about the
Speaker 1: demanding per um. And so we, we are very sensitive
Speaker 1: to their moods and they probably, you know, they get
Speaker 1: reinforced for that kind of additional intense purr by, you know,
Speaker 1: getting what they want again. So there's there's this really
Speaker 1: neat kind of interaction between humans and cats, and we've
Speaker 1: probably changed some of our communication styles to adapt to them.
Speaker 1: To write, like a lot of us, when we're talking
Speaker 1: to our pets, raised the tone of our voice. Um,
Speaker 1: we know that most companion animals respond better to that
Speaker 1: kind of Kitty, kitty, or you know, Um, whatever cute
Speaker 1: voice you use when you're talking to your cats. So Um.
Speaker 1: So we do it too. Yeah, maybe. Is that why, like,
Speaker 1: I turned into a complete Du fist when I'm talking
Speaker 1: to a dog or like you are okay, just like
Speaker 1: saying the most obvious things, like these are your paws
Speaker 1: and they're like I know, I know, these are my paws.
Speaker 1: You don't need to tell me that these are your
Speaker 1: little tug paws. Guilty as charged as well. Just you
Speaker 1: can't help that. Lest we forget that the African wildcats
Speaker 1: are different from our domesticated cats. Even though they typically
Speaker 1: hunt small prey like mice, rats, you know, small reptiles,
Speaker 1: they can take down larger prey. So they can, on occasion, like,
Speaker 1: take down a baby antelope, which may sound kind of shocking,
Speaker 1: but given that they're not that much bigger than a
Speaker 1: domesticated cat. In fact, sometimes they're smaller, depending on the
Speaker 1: breed of domesticated cat, but they are. They are a
Speaker 1: little bit more ferocious than our domesticated cats. Well, they
Speaker 1: have to be, right. They don't have a food ball,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. So, so, even though they look very much, very,
Speaker 1: very similar and genetically are pretty similar, it's just those
Speaker 1: few changes, the ones that you mentioned, that have brought
Speaker 1: us these, these lovely little lap cats who will pur
Speaker 1: and sit with us, whereas if you try to do
Speaker 1: that with an African wildcat, even if it is tamed,
Speaker 1: they would not probably have the patience for that. Not
Speaker 1: The best idea. No, uh, so I have a question
Speaker 1: for you, which is, what do you think like the
Speaker 1: play behaviors we see in our house cats reflects the
Speaker 1: more wild behaviors of these African wild cats, these this
Speaker 1: sort of more you know, it's almost like, it seems
Speaker 1: like these softened versions of this like aggressive hunting behavior. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: play and hunting have a lot of the same mechanisms
Speaker 1: and and underlying like Um basically causes. Right. So we
Speaker 1: know that hunger is a trigger for hunting and cats.
Speaker 1: We know that hunger actually makes cats play more. We
Speaker 1: know that cats who are hunting are sensitive to the
Speaker 1: size of prey and that can be also influenced by
Speaker 1: their hunger and we see that in play with toys.
Speaker 1: Cats use a lot of the same behaviors with toys
Speaker 1: that they would use when they were hunting. So you
Speaker 1: know the clutch by the clutching and the next bite
Speaker 1: and the funny kicking, the leaping and batting the toy around. Um,
Speaker 1: we see those behaviors when cats are hunting. So there's
Speaker 1: so much overlap that I think we can safely assume
Speaker 1: that when cats exhibit those behaviors towards a toy, they
Speaker 1: are directing hunting behavior towards a toy. We call it play. Um,
Speaker 1: it's fun. It's probably fun for the cat to and
Speaker 1: play kind of implies fun and Um. Yeah, it's even
Speaker 1: when you look at kind of the definitions of play
Speaker 1: behavior and animals, it's usually Um, a less serious version
Speaker 1: of a normal behavior like hunting or mating or fighting. Right.
Speaker 1: So play implies that there's Um, that it's often them
Speaker 1: practicing for a more practical behavior. Um, in some cases
Speaker 1: they may never need to use that practical behavior. Right.
Speaker 1: Or cats, if there's spade, neuter mate. Hopefully they're not
Speaker 1: going to fight, hopefully they're not hunting, but they still
Speaker 1: have those instincts and so play is very much an
Speaker 1: outlet for that hunting instinct. The better we do at
Speaker 1: replicating prey when we move toys or when we select toys,
Speaker 1: then the more likely your cat is going to engage
Speaker 1: in those behaviors that resemble hunting. So picking a toy
Speaker 1: that looks like a bird, that moves like a mouse,
Speaker 1: that moves like a bug. One thing I hear from
Speaker 1: a lot of cat owners is like, oh, we have
Speaker 1: toys all over the floor, he won't play with any
Speaker 1: of them. Well, those toys are like dead mice. They're
Speaker 1: not moving around, so you're it's kind of like I
Speaker 1: always bring up this example because I was an only child,
Speaker 1: so I spend a lot of time like playing monopoly
Speaker 1: against myself. Right. It was like when your cat has
Speaker 1: to move the toy and then chase it, it's like
Speaker 1: they're playing aboard game by them. So it's much more
Speaker 1: fun for them if we move the toy. Um, maybe
Speaker 1: they know we're moving the toy, maybe they don't, maybe
Speaker 1: they're just getting lost in the experience and their instincts
Speaker 1: kick in like that might be something I can eat,
Speaker 1: I better chase it and try to kill it just
Speaker 1: in case. Um, and you know, maybe at some point
Speaker 1: if you oh, this isn't a real mouse, like I'm done.
Speaker 1: But for many cats they'll play, especially young cats, they'll
Speaker 1: play for a very long period of time, chasing that
Speaker 1: bird feathered thing around or chasing that cat dancer around.
Speaker 1: So really the best thing to do is kind of
Speaker 1: focus on becoming the prey, you know, like acting like
Speaker 1: a bird, acting like a mouse would would act, and
Speaker 1: think about how you can get those hunting behaviors out
Speaker 1: of your cat. Right. The Butt Wiggle, the stocking, the pouncing,
Speaker 1: the leaping in the air, all of those behaviors are
Speaker 1: going to depend on your cat, their age, their health,
Speaker 1: they're um what they're used to playing with. But most
Speaker 1: cats you can at least get some of those hunting
Speaker 1: behaviors out of if you take the time to move
Speaker 1: the toy correctly and find toys like yeah, I I
Speaker 1: feel like you can spend money on the fanciest looking toy,
Speaker 1: but if you take like a piece of string, tie
Speaker 1: it to a water paper and then pull it through
Speaker 1: like a tube of toilet paper. That's going to be
Speaker 1: an amazing, incredible experience for your cat. Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: A lot of my cats do get board of their
Speaker 1: toys pretty quickly. So we do a lot of rotation.
Speaker 1: Even within a play session and a half hour we
Speaker 1: might go through four or five different toys. My cats
Speaker 1: have been really into green beans right now. So I
Speaker 1: say a green bean to a drag and drag it around.
Speaker 1: They love it and they tossed the green being around.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like sometimes you just have to look
Speaker 1: in your recycling bin. Um, the main thing is just
Speaker 1: making sure it's safe for your cat to play with.
Speaker 1: And any type of interactive toy with a string or
Speaker 1: a wire, you want to put it away so your
Speaker 1: cat can't use it when you're not supervising, because we
Speaker 1: don't want anybody choking or swallowing something. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know there's lots of things around your
Speaker 1: house like a small piece of fabric, a ball of paper, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, a twist tie from, you know, a package,
Speaker 1: like any of those things can be turned into a
Speaker 1: temporary toy. I was we were baby sitting my sister
Speaker 1: in law's cat and as she found a ping pong ball,
Speaker 1: probably from the previous tenant, because we we've we have
Speaker 1: no recollection of where this ping pong ball came from
Speaker 1: and and so that that was quite an experience for her,
Speaker 1: just the the amazing bounciness of it. There was actually
Speaker 1: so the late seventies and early eighties there was there
Speaker 1: were a lot of studies of kitten play and there
Speaker 1: was actually study looking at different toys and the Ping
Speaker 1: Pong Ball was one of the favorites. So, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm just so impressed that she managed to like
Speaker 1: locate this pink this h I mean this poa was
Speaker 1: probably from the seventies to maybe this was used in
Speaker 1: one of those studies and she found it and made
Speaker 1: it her own and like carried it around with her
Speaker 1: brought it back into her bed. It's it's they will,
Speaker 1: they'll let you know what toy they like and just
Speaker 1: defer to their wishes. I think is the lesson here. Yes,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna take another quick break, but when we
Speaker 1: get back we're going to talk about not an ancestor
Speaker 1: of the domesticated cat but a cousin and how this murderous,
Speaker 1: wild little kitty might inform us about our own cats
Speaker 1: behaviors in terms of how to keep something that just
Speaker 1: loves to murder occupied. So we've talked about the African wildcat,
Speaker 1: the ancestor of domesticated cats, and now we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about a cat that is related, but it is
Speaker 1: not an ancestor Um, although when you look at it
Speaker 1: it looks like an adorable, smaller version of the domesticated cats.
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite wildcats, the black footed cat,
Speaker 1: so cute. They are adorable, the one of the cutest wildcats,
Speaker 1: very small and it's one of the smallest wildcats, I think. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it is also the most murderous of the hats,
Speaker 1: although it may not be dragging down antelope, it has
Speaker 1: an amazing kill rate, like a sixty percent kill success rate,
Speaker 1: which is very impressive. They're about a third of the
Speaker 1: size of a house cat, very, very cute. They're tan
Speaker 1: with these dark brown spots and stripes and they like,
Speaker 1: you know, their name implies, they have these little black
Speaker 1: socks on their feet. But that cuteness is a little
Speaker 1: bit deceptive. They are extremely ferocious. They are sometimes called
Speaker 1: ant hill tigers because they are so fierce and they
Speaker 1: do not like humans. So if you think you can
Speaker 1: go up to one of these and pet them, you
Speaker 1: are not going to come away satisfied with that experience
Speaker 1: or within techt hands. Right, exactly. Yes, they are mostly nocturnal.
Speaker 1: They will walk incredible distances. So they can walk up
Speaker 1: to twenty miles or thirty two kilometers a night, which is,
Speaker 1: I mean like in terms of humans, that would be
Speaker 1: like walking twenty five marathons a night, which is completely bonkers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they during all this walking, they basically slaughter everything
Speaker 1: in their bath, from insects to rodents to birds, plucked
Speaker 1: up right as they're taking off their M O is, ambush,
Speaker 1: stocking and pouncing. Just like you're domesticated cat. They do
Speaker 1: that Little Butt Wiggle, and that butt wiggle is not
Speaker 1: just to look adorable right before they murder something, that
Speaker 1: is aligning their feet so that their pounds will be
Speaker 1: really effective and precise. They can kill fifteen prey animals
Speaker 1: a night, which is which makes them probably the most
Speaker 1: successful serial killers in the history of the world. That's
Speaker 1: about a kill per hour. So sometimes they love killing
Speaker 1: so much they will murder something that is larger than themselves,
Speaker 1: like Cape hairs, which they can't even really eat in
Speaker 1: one sitting, so they'll drag them back and kind of
Speaker 1: nibble up them over many nights. But they are just
Speaker 1: such enthusiastic killers. They sometimes kill and then they're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do with this thing. But
Speaker 1: the fact that they are so active, walk that incredible
Speaker 1: amount kill so rapidly means that, uh, if we tried
Speaker 1: to keep one of these as a pet, not only
Speaker 1: would your face be gone, but this cat would be so,
Speaker 1: so bored. They would make terrible pets. But they are
Speaker 1: sometimes kept in zoos and this presents a problem for
Speaker 1: the ethical zoo that wants to keep them for conservation
Speaker 1: but does not want to have them in basically cat prison.
Speaker 1: And so zookeepers are constantly trying to figure out ways
Speaker 1: to help keep them mentally healthy as well as physically healthy.
Speaker 1: And there was a study, uh, that researched aroma therapy
Speaker 1: for black footed cats, and so they offered these smelly
Speaker 1: smells to these black footed cats, like nutmeg, cat nip
Speaker 1: in prey smells, and they found that for the cats
Speaker 1: that were given this aroma therapy, they were far more
Speaker 1: active than the cats who were not given this treatment.
Speaker 1: So is this something that also works for domesticated cats?
Speaker 1: What a fantastic study, Um, and you brought up a
Speaker 1: lot of, I mean a lot of similarities among you know,
Speaker 1: and I think when you look at all of the
Speaker 1: cat species you do see these commonalities in their predatory
Speaker 1: behavior and to survive. Our domestic cats, if they were outside,
Speaker 1: would have to kill eight to ten miles a day
Speaker 1: to survive. And studies have shown that Um, cats who
Speaker 1: were observed hunting did have about fifty kill rate. So, Um,
Speaker 1: I've heard, I've heard lower estimates. So it could be
Speaker 1: very population dependent. And cats will also hunt even though
Speaker 1: they're not hungry, or they'll hunt even though they have
Speaker 1: a mouse in their mouths, right, because really, again getting
Speaker 1: back to their instincts, if you don't know where your
Speaker 1: next meal is coming from, you've got to catch well
Speaker 1: catch cat, right. So they just will take advantage of
Speaker 1: of prey that's available. And I think somebodys it's hard
Speaker 1: for us to kind of see our cats as a
Speaker 1: as a predator. Um, if you've I had the misfortune
Speaker 1: of living in an apartment that had a mouse problem
Speaker 1: once and Um, you know, one of our cats was
Speaker 1: pretty ruthless. It always kind of made me sad. I
Speaker 1: think rodents are adorable. I don't really want to live
Speaker 1: with them, but I do appreciate them. So it can
Speaker 1: be kind of hard to recognize that our cats are
Speaker 1: our killers. But, Um, to the question of the olfactory enrichment,
Speaker 1: I mean I love the idea and you know, we're
Speaker 1: so visual that I think we kind of get stuck
Speaker 1: in like visual enrichment and forget that for cats, their
Speaker 1: sense of smell is much better than ours. They use
Speaker 1: their smell in many different ways than we do, including
Speaker 1: to communicate with other cats. So, Um, one of the
Speaker 1: behaviors that's very similar to their ancestors is, you know,
Speaker 1: doing things like you're in, marking and rubbing and marking
Speaker 1: their territory with their claws like those are things that
Speaker 1: are very important to our cats. As far as enrichment
Speaker 1: and smells that cats enjoy, every cat's different, but there
Speaker 1: are any of safe smells that you can introduce to
Speaker 1: your cat for enrichment, like you mentioned Catnip, and there's
Speaker 1: also a plant called Matatabi Um. It's also known as
Speaker 1: Silver Vine and there's been research showing that more cats
Speaker 1: respond to silvervine than CATNIP and the response is very similar.
Speaker 1: So you get the rolling, the rubbing, the licking. Some
Speaker 1: cats get a little excited, some cats get a little mellows.
Speaker 1: So you kind of have to learn, you know, what
Speaker 1: your cat does when they're under the influence of CATNIP
Speaker 1: or Silvervine. But those are very fun enrichment. So now
Speaker 1: there's a lot more toys that have silver vine. A
Speaker 1: lot of cats respond well to honeysuckle Valerian root, so
Speaker 1: those are considered generally safe. And then there's some other
Speaker 1: things like I mean I occasionally like to bring a
Speaker 1: leaf into the house and just let my cats kind
Speaker 1: of sniff it and play with it. There's food things
Speaker 1: that are safe for your cat to smell or play with,
Speaker 1: like the Green Bean. One of my cats really loves
Speaker 1: to play with potatoes. So you know, I do think
Speaker 1: that one of the key environmental considerations is your cat's
Speaker 1: sense of smell. So not just things they want to
Speaker 1: smell or enter interact with, but also smells they may
Speaker 1: not like. So things like incense or like plug INS
Speaker 1: that are meant to deodorize. A lot of those smells
Speaker 1: are very intense, they're artificial and that can be very
Speaker 1: stressful to our cats because it covers the smells they're
Speaker 1: interested in, which is the smells they deposit when they're
Speaker 1: scratching something or rubbing on it. And so we're trying
Speaker 1: to like often it's trying to cover the litter box smell. Right,
Speaker 1: the best way to keep your litter box smelling fresh
Speaker 1: is to scoop it and clean it regularly rather than, Um,
Speaker 1: let it get very dirty and just put a deodorizer nearby,
Speaker 1: hoping that that will mask the smell. There have been
Speaker 1: advances into litter box technology, like there are these bins
Speaker 1: now that you can get that kind of like seal
Speaker 1: so like you can scoop the litter box and instead
Speaker 1: of because, you know, I think one of the thing
Speaker 1: the litter genie. It's like a diaper genie that like exactly,
Speaker 1: and so you can just like scoop it dump it
Speaker 1: right in there, so you're not constantly having to take
Speaker 1: it the trash out, you know, twice a day. But
Speaker 1: then it's seals so you can't smell it and then
Speaker 1: when it gets full, you just take the whole thing out,
Speaker 1: which is uh, you know, since I haven't had a
Speaker 1: cat and like, you know, ten years. It's like wow,
Speaker 1: this is an amazing there have been amazing advancements in
Speaker 1: little technologies. So you do not uh, you do not
Speaker 1: need to use UH, like for breeze to cover the
Speaker 1: cat smell. You can just and it's also that's better
Speaker 1: for the cat too, because they like a clean litter box.
Speaker 1: They don't want to they don't want to step on
Speaker 1: their own poopy, anymore than you want to smell their poopies. Exactly. Yeah. So, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I always encourage people to try different smells. You know,
Speaker 1: beacept both ones that are kind of designed for cats
Speaker 1: and things that, you know, usually natural things that you
Speaker 1: can bring in from the outside. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: when I go outside I come in, my cats always
Speaker 1: want to smell my shoes. Oh my cat. Yeah, my cat, mittens,
Speaker 1: the female one, who was all elegance that would disappear
Speaker 1: when there was a pair of shoes. She would shove
Speaker 1: her face inside this too and just half deeply, and
Speaker 1: it's she loved nothing more than the shoe smell. Yeah. So, so,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times cats will let you
Speaker 1: know the smells that interest them. But, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: let my cats smell my cup of tea and maybe
Speaker 1: let them smell my food. You know, they're they're pretty
Speaker 1: well behaved. So and I'm a vegetarian, so there's nothing
Speaker 1: that they want to eat, but sometimes they just want
Speaker 1: to kind of check out China. So Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: they do have this incredible sense of smell. And the
Speaker 1: other thing too, like about pray smells, which is a
Speaker 1: really interesting question. Um, I know that my cats love
Speaker 1: the real rabbit for toys, which it kind of like
Speaker 1: breaks my heart a little bit, but it's they respond
Speaker 1: differently than any other kind of foe for toys. So Um,
Speaker 1: there are places online where you can get like ethically
Speaker 1: firmed rabbit for so Dr Kristen vitally did a study
Speaker 1: looking at cat's interest in different activities and one of
Speaker 1: them was, I think I used Gerbil scent as one choice,
Speaker 1: and then they could either sniff the Gerbil scent or
Speaker 1: play with the toy or interact with the human and
Speaker 1: overall they did prefer the human interactions over the Gerbal
Speaker 1: sent Um, if I'm remembering correctly. But and yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know where people get Gerbal cent. Just rub a
Speaker 1: Gerbil against a cotton ball. I don't really recommend you know,
Speaker 1: keeping small animals in your home if you have cats,
Speaker 1: because it can be stressful for the res to live
Speaker 1: with a Predator in the same house. So, but maybe
Speaker 1: you have a friend with a pet rat or a
Speaker 1: pet JERBIL. Get some cotton. Can you rub your rat
Speaker 1: just for a minute? It's like, I just need to
Speaker 1: see to borrow your rat and rub it just for
Speaker 1: a minute. You Tube so Um. So, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think people can get creative, stick to non toxic,
Speaker 1: safe things and, like I said, there's there's things we
Speaker 1: know that most cats like, that silver buy and Catinet,
Speaker 1: Valerian and honeysuckle. So those are those are all available
Speaker 1: in products for cats. And I should mention, because I
Speaker 1: do say Roman therapy, but Roman therapy for cats is
Speaker 1: going to be very different from humans. They're actually certain
Speaker 1: like like, if you're thinking, you know, giving essential oils
Speaker 1: to your cat, do not, because they're actually essential oils
Speaker 1: that are quite toxic to cats. Right, Yep. So I
Speaker 1: just want to be careful getting too and then you
Speaker 1: know on a lot of those oils are the smell
Speaker 1: is very strong and if it's strong to us, Um,
Speaker 1: then it's strong to them. I'm one of those people
Speaker 1: that doesn't like heavy scents. So I get a headache.
Speaker 1: I feel that. Yeah, you know when I walk into
Speaker 1: like a cloud of incense. So I am probably more sensitive.
Speaker 1: But other people, you know, it's like they've got the
Speaker 1: air fresheners everywhere. And I was like, yeah, I sneeze constant,
Speaker 1: like when I go to a mall and walk past
Speaker 1: like the perfume counter, it's just I can't, I can't
Speaker 1: function I start sneezing perfume. And there have been studies
Speaker 1: showing that, UM, some felid species. I know, like I
Speaker 1: think it's lions or baby tigers. Love Obsession, Calvin fully, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's probably just how did they find
Speaker 1: that out? Someone definitely around right like started getting hit
Speaker 1: on by a lion. Yeah, I need to, I need to,
Speaker 1: like that's been a factoid sitting in my brain for
Speaker 1: a long time that I probably need to go like
Speaker 1: do a little more Debo die. But I know that
Speaker 1: there was a study looking at different olfactory responses and
Speaker 1: cats and I'm pretty sure they used m comm claim
Speaker 1: ob sessions. So amazing. Yeah, so your cat might like
Speaker 1: your perfume, but that doesn't mean you want to spray
Speaker 1: it all over them right, like. No, you know a
Speaker 1: little damn, do you like? Their sense of smells much
Speaker 1: better than ours, so you don't have to feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: it has to be this like really powerful scent for
Speaker 1: them to have Um. Yeah, no, they are quite sensitive. Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like I have learned much more about cats
Speaker 1: talking to you. I uh, like I said, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about getting a cat. I gotta make sure the apartment
Speaker 1: is safe. Uh. If you have any tips on how
Speaker 1: to make try to keep cats from scratching furniture, that
Speaker 1: would be much appreciated, I assume. I assume leaving out
Speaker 1: lots of scratching posts, maybe putting some uh, material over
Speaker 1: the catch that they're not going to want to scratch,
Speaker 1: but other than that, I don't really know what. Lots
Speaker 1: of lots of treats when they use the scratching post.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd say the big thing is is having
Speaker 1: a few choices of scratching, like some cats like to
Speaker 1: scratch vertically, like upright, and other cats like to scratch horizonly,
Speaker 1: like those, you know, cardboard pads or whatever, and so
Speaker 1: giving them some choices, making sure they're prominent and giving
Speaker 1: them lots of treats when they do scratch appropriately and then, yeah,
Speaker 1: usually if they are still trying to scratch the furniture,
Speaker 1: you can like put a sheet over it temporarily until
Speaker 1: they are directed towards the things you want them to
Speaker 1: be scratching. Keep their nails trimmed. Um. So that's where
Speaker 1: the training can come and hand me, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: positive re enforcement training and again, lots of treats, um
Speaker 1: patients and Um, you know, to be honest, like we
Speaker 1: have a lot of scratching posts and cat trees in
Speaker 1: my house. Um, we got a new couch. The cats
Speaker 1: do not touch the catch. They're not interested. They like
Speaker 1: it's not even like they have so many other better
Speaker 1: options that I don't even think they see it as
Speaker 1: something to scratch. So Um, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: if you again, if you provide them with something that
Speaker 1: they like and give them rewards for for using it,
Speaker 1: then a lot of times they're just like not really interested.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll get a Gerbil and rub it against a
Speaker 1: scratching post. So before we go, there's a game I
Speaker 1: always play at the end of the podcast, which is
Speaker 1: gives who's squawking. It's the mystery animal sound game. So
Speaker 1: every week I play a mystery animal sound and you
Speaker 1: the listener and you the guest, if you'd like to
Speaker 1: try to guess who is squawking, it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be a bird, it could be any animal. It can
Speaker 1: be incredibly difficult. I always like to preface it by
Speaker 1: saying that I would lose this game most of the time,
Speaker 1: so there is no pressure to get this right. Um. So, uh,
Speaker 1: this one, especially now, this is I think this is
Speaker 1: unfair to you because this one I gave a very
Speaker 1: specific hint that is based on reading an article, because
Speaker 1: otherwise there's no way you're going to get it. I'll
Speaker 1: still play it for you and if you want to
Speaker 1: take a stab in the dark, uh, you can give
Speaker 1: it a shot. I'm definitely curious. So last week's tent
Speaker 1: was it's actually good that these guys have an inflated
Speaker 1: sense of pride, and if you read Ferris Jaber's article
Speaker 1: how beauty is making scientists rethink evolution, you're sure to
Speaker 1: find the answer. So I'm realizing now as I'm reading this,
Speaker 1: this is extremely unfair to you, but you know it'll
Speaker 1: be a challenge. I'm game. I'm not afraid to lose. Alright, so, Michael,
Speaker 1: do you have any guesses? I love the sound. I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm just gonna go with the frog.
Speaker 1: You are correct that it is a frog, so nailed it.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the specific kind of frog now. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is the male Tungara Frog, which is a little
Speaker 1: semi terrestrial frog whose calls are highly attractive to both
Speaker 1: females of their own species as well as to frog
Speaker 1: eating bats. So this is, uh, an example of an
Speaker 1: evolutionary trade off. So, even though it does put them
Speaker 1: a little more in danger exposes them to predation, the
Speaker 1: females love it so much that that sexual selection outweighs
Speaker 1: the danger of predation, and so this is a wonderful
Speaker 1: example of how sexual selection in nature can be so
Speaker 1: powerful it can cause males to do very dumb things
Speaker 1: that are dangerous. I love it, but that's amazing. You
Speaker 1: guess correctly. I am super impressed. You should definitely check
Speaker 1: out videos of these guys. All include a link in
Speaker 1: the show notes. But they have these large inflatable throat
Speaker 1: sacks and it's really funny to watch because if you've
Speaker 1: ever like kind of with like a limp balloon, like
Speaker 1: pushed air from one side of the own out to
Speaker 1: the other. That's kind of what they look like, because
Speaker 1: they fill their their bodies up with air and then
Speaker 1: push it into their throat sacks and then kind of
Speaker 1: back and forth, and it's it's very cute and funny,
Speaker 1: these male animals. Congratulations to Joey P, who wrote in
Speaker 1: and guessed correctly. Remember, if you have a guess, you
Speaker 1: can write to me at creature feature pod at Gmail
Speaker 1: Dot Com. So onto this week's mystery animal sound. Ah,
Speaker 1: the hint is there's nothing deadly or sinful about this cutie.
Speaker 1: Ah Ah. Well, so I'm gonna be honest. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that this is what these sounded like until I
Speaker 1: looked looked it up online. Do you have any guesses,
Speaker 1: and I don't blame you if you don't. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: I guess a wild guest would be a monkey. Interesting guests. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to leave you on a cliffhanger
Speaker 1: because the answer to this question is going to be
Speaker 1: revealed on next week's episode of creature feature, but you
Speaker 1: can rest on your laurels for guessing that. That uh,
Speaker 1: the previous sound as a frog. Very cool, Michael. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining me and answering all my
Speaker 1: questions about cats. I hope everyone out there who has
Speaker 1: a cat or who wants a cat learned a little
Speaker 1: bit about how to please your cat, how to make
Speaker 1: your cat happy. The most important question to answer. Where
Speaker 1: can people find more stuff from you? Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: a blog, which is what your cat wants, dot com,
Speaker 1: so that's you can get in touch with me there.
Speaker 1: I've got, you know, contact bomb. I've got lots of articles,
Speaker 1: most of reviewing scientific papers about cats and translating that
Speaker 1: science so that people can better understand how research applies
Speaker 1: to their own little tiger in their bed Um. So
Speaker 1: really enjoy science communications. So that's a good way to
Speaker 1: by name. Thank you so much for having me. I
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun. Absolutely. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on. And if you're enjoying the show and
Speaker 1: you want to leave a rating or review, that would
Speaker 1: make this cat happy. You can't see, but I'm pointing
Speaker 1: to myself. Uh It. Maybe it'd make your cat happy
Speaker 1: as well, because it'd be like wow, yeah, it's great
Speaker 1: of you that you left those reviews. UH, most likely
Speaker 1: your cat doesn't care whether I get roots, but it
Speaker 1: helps me out, so I appreciate that and thanks so
Speaker 1: much to the space classics for their Super Awesome Song
Speaker 1: EXO Lumina creature. Features of production of I heart radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit
Speaker 1: the I heart radio APP apple podcasts or hey, guess what,
Speaker 1: if you listen to your favorite shows, I don't judge you.
Speaker 1: Your cat judges you a little bit, but me, I
Speaker 1: don't see you next Wednesday.