WEBVTT - Ep. 267: Smolt to Adult 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:24.480 can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:35.040 All right, everybody, we're here, Ryan Callahan. This goes out 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.880 to Yanni's dad. Yanni's dad. Yanni. We are joined by Phil, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.240 who's having a little parfait. How is How is it? Phil? 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.640 It's always delicious? Yeah, smacking your lips over there? You 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:50.080 turned your mic off? Yeah, so people can't listen to 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.520 you smack. Some people love this kind of thing. Most 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.040 people hate it. I'm gonna turn it off. Uh, Chester, 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.600 who's here for a guest appearance? Uh? Today's installation of 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.200 the adventures? What is the what's the what's the show called? 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.040 Turn your thing back on? In the middle of a bite? Here? Uh? 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:13.600 The Continuing Adventures of Chester. The investor UM. Ryan Callahan 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.080 is here, fresh off his first I mean, like literally, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.400 it's probably I mean, it's probably hasn't even it's probably 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:27.080 still percolating through your for sure COVID vaccine first round fighter. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.120 That's not an endorsement, that's just what I got. You'll 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:36.280 know how it works, you, Um so you weren't. Did 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.800 you have like, uh, you know about getting the vaccine? 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.520 Were you afraid that, um, you know, the government was 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.200 going to put a tracking device in you and all 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.400 that kind of stuff. What's the main argument against the 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.200 vaccine that? Well, that's a big one and and the 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.120 whole thing is made up? So why I do this anyway? 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:55.200 And um, you know it's weird though, like, amongst a 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:00.360 large part of my family, we've never ever had flu shots. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.240 I've never had a flu shot in my entire life. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.080 But I wouldn't call yourself an anti vax no. But 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.720 I just ran because I don't get the flu, right, 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.359 I didn't as far as I know. As far as 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.000 we know, we've done a bunch of COVID tests. Um, 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.400 but I guess I haven't had an eye anibody test. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.639 But I didn't get COVID either, So maybe you did, 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.360 but maybe I did. But you did, you've ast late 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.000 on getting the vaccine. There was part of me that 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:32.880 was like, self, do you find it odd that you've 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.720 never had the desire to get a flu shot or 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:40.600 felt like it was irresponsible to not get a flu shot? 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:45.320 But here you are really chomping at the bit to 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:50.560 get a COVID nineteen shot. Yeah, I had those thoughts. Yeah, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.240 there are notable. I mean, there's more incentive to kind 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.760 of wrap this up. If we can, then there is 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.440 the wrap up the flu. I don't really know why 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:03.160 that's true, but it's like I don't know. Yeah, it's 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.680 like maybe it's acknowledging a little bit of frailty in 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.600 your cell. I'm tougher than the flu didn't get COVID, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.560 but yeah, I don't know, but yeah, i'd had some 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:18.440 like huh, like, well, you know, don't feel sick. Maybe 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.440 I just have the good stuff already so I mess 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.840 with it. Were they friendly to you down there? Very friendly, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.160 very thankful, Jeff, take your shirt off. No, I just 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.160 peeled gave her a little shoulder, a little taste of 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.919 the shoulders, and they were acting like they were acting 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.960 like you were doing them a good turn. Yes, very much. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.120 So we're just so happy that you came in, like 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.400 giving blood or something. What shoulder would you like? You know, 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.200 like A, I'm my left shoulders closer to you about 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.200 that one. I'll get up and move. I'll get up 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:48.760 and move if you want it in the right shoulder, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.960 do you want Bugs Buddy or camel uh band Aid 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:57.280 want Bugs Bunny. So there's enough camera in my life, ma'am. 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.880 And then how do you go about? Um, I'm gonna 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.680 introduce un s second Eric. Uh. We're joined by podcasts 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.280 alum Eric Crawford, who's wearing a new hat. I don't 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.640 mean that literally, I mean figuratively wearing a new hat. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.440 But how do you know when it's tigned to go 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.920 in for your other one? They right now, they're really 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:21.240 encouraging you to preschedule your second shot, but they're doing 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.840 it in blocks. So it's like the block that I'm 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.840 a part of right now that got signed up and 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.359 and got vaccine slots for today. Well, we'll all be 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:38.039 getting their second shot. A but uh, we're all on 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.560 the road April. Uh. But I had a long talk 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.360 with my Conciguliari Phil podcast producer over there with the 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.920 yogurt yep yogurt guy. I mean, look at him, he's 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.440 working on his gut health. He's already got a round 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.160 a vaccine in him. He's pretty liable source. So um, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.760 and you're saying, just get it and figure out the 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.320 second one could be a week early, week late, but 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.040 got it? Yeah, so that's that's my program? Got it? Yep? 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.680 Eric Crawford, Well, was the last time you were on 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.040 the show you were a game warden? I was? I was, Gosh, 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.880 was it was that? Could that be? When the heck 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.920 was it? It was a long time ago. God, we're 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.320 just young pops back then, some of us. Yep, what 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.680 are you doing nowadays with yourself today? I worked for 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.480 Trout Unlimited as a North Pudeo field coordinator is what 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.840 my official title is. Did you know all along you're like, man, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:33.680 someday when I'm not a game warden, I'm gonna work 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.000 for Trott Unlimited. I didn't know that, you know. It's 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.680 just a kind of a right, you know, set of circumstances. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.480 Quite honestly, got burned out being a game warden after 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.560 twenty plus years of doing it. But at twenty plus years, 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.320 don't it, I meanears with the same agency, right, Yeah, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.120 so we kind of like look out for you after that, 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.960 Like there's some retirement stuff and all that. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.200 straight up. Yeah, I got a pension and everything. Yeah, 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:00.919 but I feel like you're not Are you older than 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.840 me or younger me? No? I think we're the same age. 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.280 That's not really fair. You're one year older me. Now 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.400 you're like you can tell people you're retired. Well, yeah, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.880 I still work though. That's a good point. Yeah, so 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.080 I don't draw in my retirement um with the state. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.360 But yeah, it was just a good transition from doing 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.359 you know, conservation law enforcement and conservation for that matter, 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.200 to now focusing on in on you know, salmon and 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.600 steelhead and cold water species throughout the state. Idea. Were 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.320 you torn about retiring? I wasn't. I wasn't at all 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.800 there there was so well, well, I will say this, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.120 there is a day as I drove drove to the 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:45.159 office that I worked out of in Lewiston that it 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.760 really hit me that I was losing my identity if 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.599 that makes sense, Like, yeah, I was a game warden 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.880 for twenty years, Like that's packing the pistol line your 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.479 hip and yeah no, not wearing body armored to work 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.880 or wearing a side yeah no. But it was just like, hey, 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.440 that's who I am, that's who I identify with, And 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:08.440 then one day it was gone. Are your neighbors a 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.840 lot more forthcoming with you now? About like what they've 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:15.680 been up to? Uh? Um? I have one neighbor that 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.600 I think he's even more apprehensive now because then he 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.920 he doesn't know what I'm up to, and like he's 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.440 an avidly he used to know what not to tell you. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.800 Now he's like, I don't even know anymore, not even 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.040 know Cal's aware of this. But last two weeks ago, 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.000 last week, last weekend, it was, um, there was three 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.560 moose in my yard and so no, no alive, Yeah, 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.120 eat my shrubs. So I called the damn game department, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.840 told me get their moose out of the yard, like 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.320 literally called my old neighboring officer. I was like, hey, 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.360 these moose are back, what are you doing? But that 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.840 same neighbor had just evidently just been bitching like crazy 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.280 about him, like eating his apple trees, and he's happy 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:59.880 to see him. Gone, yeah, Um, are you admiring that 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.240 bowl right there? I am. The thing is, it's hard 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.280 to talk about. People can't see it, but it's gorgeous. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.560 That's called a Bucky bowl. It is amazing. The inside 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.840 of it literally looks like polished stone rather than would 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:16.720 it's unbelieable. It's a birch, a birch burrow. That Buck Bowden, 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:21.680 who's also a podcast a lum um Buck Boden goes 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:23.160 out and hunts him down out in the woods out 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:29.640 in Alaska. Obviously, Chain saws off the burl and then 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.640 takes a like an angle grinder with this little wood 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:38.800 fitting on it and cuts away everything that doesn't look 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.000 like a bowl. So how many hours of effort goes 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.000 into that? Because it takes them about ten million hours. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.480 I thought it'd be way more. It's gorgeous. I feel 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:55.160 in the walls are in that thing. It's beautiful. It 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:59.240 is um. The reason I bring this up is, uh, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.080 we're gonna make one. We're gonna make one of these 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.440 Bucky bowls. It'll be a while, so we'll stay tuned, 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:04.800 but we're gonna we're gonna have a way to make 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.360 one of these Buckey bowls available, and we're gonna raise 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:16.640 some uh conservation money by having a auction house of oddities. 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:18.920 So you're saying that I should start saving my money 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.920 so I can save the money now, because that big 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.440 ass bowl, you could pretty much Jester goa damn you 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:29.000 take a bath net thing. That bowl is gonna Bucks 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:30.800 got one that looks just like that. He's sending it 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:32.640 to us that we're gonna make available through an auction 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:38.600 house of oddities. Uh, lots of pictures of those things. Um, yeah, 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.360 ten hours is all I bet you if you went 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.400 to do it well. In fact, one of our camera 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.600 guys took from Buck's collection. Have did you ever asked 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.360 Lauren to hear from Lauren? You know, Lauren, how long 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.200 it took him to do it? He did it. He 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.520 did it. I don't know how long it took him, though, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.760 but he was asking me a bunch of questions about 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.720 it with like the angle grinder, with the wood bits 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.400 and stuff. Yeah, because you're a little b crafty with wood. Chester. Yeah, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:10.440 it used to be like what you mean he can 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.559 still be crafty, be tired, but I still work. You 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.360 can still be crafty with wood. I mean, come on, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.319 it's not hard to be crafty with wood. Well, the 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.040 talking about Oh yeah, so we're gonna have Phil hit 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.840 the hit the Chester and the Investor um soundtrack, The 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:32.880 Continuing Adventures of Chester the Investor. Come that's it, come off, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.679 it's right, come to pop um on um. What's going 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.520 on lately? Chess has been getting so much feedback about 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.560 his bitcoin operation. Yeah, a lot of people writing in 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:51.760 which I was surprised with advice. You have advice, here's one. 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:56.840 It's not quite advice. We know what you're talking about. 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.040 I started my coin base account back when bitcoin was 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.920 like ten k. They gifted me ten free dollars a bitcoin. 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.800 That money has now grown to thirty eight dollars in 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.880 one cent. If it keeps growing, I'll be able to 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.240 buy those new sweet first light pants all without ever 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:21.480 putting in my own money. Suck on that Chester, Austin 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.400 out of Arizona. How is the How is the investment 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.959 sitting right now? Um? It's kind of like just been 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.440 stagnant since the last time we talked about it. Really, yeah, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.720 it hasn't. I mean it's gone up and down, but 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.720 not huge swings A sorry. Yeah, do you guys feel 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.880 like your conversation has kind of stagnated the marketplace a little? 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.120 Like introduce some investor uncertainty because we might be we 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.640 might be tanking, influencing it, influencing the market. You might 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.000 be doing insider trading. Game stop, he's doing trading because 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.520 he knows when we're gonna talk about it. Are you 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.640 regretting your investment? You wish you put it into real estate? No? 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.040 I still made money on it, and it's it's I 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.079 haven't lost any money. It's just it's hard to put 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.000 a few thousand bucks into real estate. Oh yeah, like 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.040 I need a very small piece of land. Yeah. I 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.440 mean to be clear, I'm not like, I don't have 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.719 a ton of money in bitcoin. Just trying to get 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.360 just trying to get a wife, trying to get Someone 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.320 wrote in this this is some feedback that I got. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.320 I don't know if you got it. Um, this guy 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.920 hates bitcoin. Okay, he doesn't like it. He doesn't like bitcoin. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:35.559 Um because of this, there's no social, tangible, utility or 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.200 value to it. He goes on to say that, which 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.760 is that's all. That's all subjective, right. What's not subjective 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:46.360 is this uses insane amounts of real energy. Okay. The 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.920 University of Cambridge suggests the bitcoin network uses more than 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:59.240 one hundred and twenty one tarawatt hours of electricity annually. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.240 Now are you you've met with this chapter. There's about 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:07.199 a hundred eight countries in this world. Yeah, okay, if 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.120 bitcoin was the country, it would be thet is that 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.480 a word? Yeah, the thirtiest most energy sucking country on 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:21.920 the planet. That's how much electricity electricity those suckers are using. 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:26.959 The cost doesn't end there, Okay, familiar with there's a 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.760 bitcoin mining operation in in Milltown, Montana right there, you know, 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.320 like on the mill property. When they shut the mill down, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.400 and uh, they seek out places to mine bitcoin that 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.760 I have a relatively low temperature because they got a 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:51.040 cool cool all the computers and all the computers are Yeah, 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:56.800 but the facility also creates like an audible hum, and 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.040 you can hear that hum for miles really like once 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.000 you like, you know, it's that thing like you, once 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.160 you become familiar with it, you can hear it for 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.840 a long long way, and then eventually you're so familiar 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.600 with it you can't hear it anymore. But yeah, it's 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.600 gone now. Um for this could have been part of 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:20.600 the reason. But um their studies coming out suggesting that 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.360 this audible hum could make people tone deaf to that 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:29.640 pitch people and then uh also was having all sorts 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:35.120 of effects on like bats and birds and stuff like that. Jeez, Chester, Yeah, 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:39.480 well dirty money, Chester feel like this is all It's 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:47.040 like Chester is holding the Walleye boat industry hostage. He's 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:53.480 basically saying, you could end this global environmental catastrophe just 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:59.280 by giving a walleye boat, bats birds that I'm into 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.360 it for the boat. If I get a boat, I 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.440 pull out. If not, I'm in killing bats, killing birds, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.480 and may your children go tone deaf. However, there's some 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.680 pretty interesting stuff going on by you know, these mining 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:20.920 operations using energy, excess energy from UM fossil fuel mining 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:22.640 like oil rigs. I know you'd like to say this, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.200 but I don't really know what this means. It means 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.280 to see what mining means, because they're thinking you're digging 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:32.520 a hole. Basically, a mining metaphor mining is solving a 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:37.600 long math problem, and once they solve it digital, it's digital. 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:43.600 It comes up with basically a number that cannot be replicated. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.960 It's really difficult to replicate that number because you'd have 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.480 to go through the exact same steps you know, these 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.840 mining operations that have to do to come up with 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:58.760 that end number. That end number is a bitcoin and UM. 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.280 So the mining is just computations, very complex computations with 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:08.320 computers that that require lots of energy and make our 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:13.200 children not be able to hear certain sounds. Possibly, but 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:17.200 I don't know that's why he has that's why he's 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:22.080 so unconcerned with this. No, I'm I'm concerned. But there's 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.760 like most of bitcoin is mine in China, um, and 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.840 a lot of it is coming. They're setting up these 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:36.080 operations in dams and stuff where there is excess energy. 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:41.040 So like where in like low population areas where these 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:47.480 electrics these hydroelectric dams are creating too much energy, they 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.520 got nowhere to put it, So essentially it would just 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.960 be they're taking this access to mine bitcoin. Also, in 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.280 the United States, oil rigs you see them all over 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:05.880 produces natural asides. So they're basically tapping into these flares 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:12.040 and trying their best to use excess energy, which that 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.840 that energy would be going to nobody, you know it wouldn't. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.600 They're not using it, they're just burning it off. How 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.840 much believe that a scale of one to ten. I 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.240 believe it, Like you lose energy when you move energy. 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.520 That's that's part of the deal. So can I can 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:35.160 sense think about this. The US dollar is backed by 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.840 the US government, Uncle Sam, Uncle Sam, which I'm not 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.560 hating on the U s dollar. I'm just turning yeah, um, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.119 we need the US but it is backed by the 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.800 US government, which is essentially backed by the military, and 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.240 think about how much gasoline the military uses every day 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.400 to protect our dollars. Is going deep? Is deep? Now 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.520 I can't even tort I have to come back for 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.320 the next next time we do this segment and think 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.280 of a retort. Well, and it's all for a Whileye boat, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.360 that's the most strike, you know what I'm here? Think 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.200 about like this magic. If the military would just give 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.680 Chester a Walleye boat, they wouldn't even feel it their 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.240 budgets fell off a train somewhere, and they'd win him 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.160 back over to the US dollar and he'd be back 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:24.480 a fan of the US dollar to get that customer back, 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.360 and he wouldn't be putting his money in some crypto 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:31.840 terrorism deal Chester. So let me tell you another. Here's 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.840 another possible retort Chester for you, not for me, but 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.480 for you. Would be um that if you didn't buy it, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.040 someone else a buy it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.480 like you getting out of this Walleye boat business isn't 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:51.520 gonna make or break Bitcoin, absolutely not. Yeah. Uh, what's 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.600 your timeline? Like, at what point would you be frustrated 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:58.720 if you didn't have your Walleye boat a couple of 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:05.080 months Oh, you like he wants that boat because well 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.000 his buddy Staths just went out and bought a boat 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:13.720 the old fashioned way work and that military just work 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.840 and take your money and buy a boat. Now he's 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.200 out pounding wall eyes and Chester's just sitting around hitting 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:23.040 and refresh on his bitcoin account. I went with him. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.359 You gotta tasted a good life. I gotta taste and 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.840 that was all I needed. Yeah, you gotta pace yourself though, 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.960 you don't want to make the wrong purchase. That's true, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.240 and right now it's really hard to find as a 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.720 guy that has done that myself. Well what Chesters think 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.800 about doing it all? Honesty? Chesters thinking about selling his 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.280 drift boat, putting the drift boat money toward the wall 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.560 eye boat, and then promptly getting back into bitcoin just 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.720 to make just to make screw you money. Yeah, smart move. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.040 I I did something similar. I had a raft with 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.600 a fishing frame, sold that upgraded to a drift boat. 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.560 But that was when I moved to the Lewis and 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.439 Moscow area. Now realized I couldn't get to where I 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.800 needed to to fish salm and steelhead, sturgeon, cocone, you 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.320 name it. And now I have a power boat m 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.120 sold them, so just often upgraded. What's that drift boat worth? 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:24.320 Probably Hunterbucks motor that I'm torn because you know right now, 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.879 I'm I'm not the kind of guy who probably should 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.359 be buying a wallet boat. You know, just you're gonna 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.919 earn it like this way. That doesn't have any impact 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.280 because this is money you found in a drawer. True, well, 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.960 I didn't find it storing it a drawer. I worked 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:44.639 for it. The we were just talking. Boat boats are 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.879 a hot topic because there are no boats on the 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.840 market right now. That's very It is a seller's market, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:55.680 you could say, right, low inventory, lots of demand. Now 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:57.640 is the time to get top dollar for that drift boat. 0:20:57.720 --> 0:20:59.320 And I have a raft you can borrow any time 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:05.200 you want. Thanks Cal, Yeah, it's nice. Everybody wins with condition. 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:11.200 Cal gets invited on every Walleye trip. Oh I already decided. 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.280 I told him if he needs to drive to Wisconsin 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.200 and get a sweet Walleye boat, he can take my truck, 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:20.440 because he's not talking about as if he ends up 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.560 with a big lake Walleye boat, he all of a a 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.920 sudden needs a vehicle to tow that boat. And then 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.560 later years from now, you'd be like, how did you 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.240 get that boat out here from Wisconsin? Oh, that's right, 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:40.000 you took my truck. That's right, tuck um can can 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.200 we ask you? Can you put your your former game 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:44.760 warden hat on? And I want to run a question 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.679 by this. This This is a hard question to ask. I 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.600 just chooing fairness to the audience. I teed it up. Yeah, 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.600 I asked it was okay to ask it um our governor. 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.480 Here in Montana, there's been some articles written, uh, with 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:05.120 what I have found to be a decidedly um misleading 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:10.000 collection of headlines about the governors sort of like illegally 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.280 uh you know, like illegally kills a Yellowstone wolf. So 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.520 I can't remember the exact headline. It was such that 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:22.240 I thought when I saw the headline, I thought, man, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.920 it's so ungovernored, like to go into Yellowstone National Park 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:31.240 and shoot a wolf. That's what I thought. Reading the headline. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.760 I was like, this is a big deal, you know. 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:36.880 And I read the article and I'm like, the third 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.159 or fourth paragraph or the article, I get to what 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:44.760 like what happened actually transpired? Not to make an apology 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:46.240 for it, but it's just it was like it was 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:50.480 funny that in in searching for a headline, people that 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.159 wanted to make it something like you put down like 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:58.240 dead killed Yellowstone Wolf. It's like, you know what's gonna 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.800 be sticky? Right? Um? What did happen was if if 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.920 you go online here and you're from Idaho, but you 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.800 go online in this state and buy a trapping permit, Um, 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.240 there's there's a season two travels. You're trapping permit is 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.080 good for all trapping activities, with the exceptional one thing 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:22.719 you need to do an online certification, like you need 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.920 to take an online course. There's a there's a quiz 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:27.840 in it. I don't know, mostly some kind of thing 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:29.600 to make sure you were actually paying attention. I gotta 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.720 believe there's because we in Idaho has a similar trapping 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.240 ed course specific to wolves. Okay, the wolf trapping course 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:40.960 above and beyond trapper education, so we don't we were 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.480 going to in this state, but we don't have trapper education. 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:48.360 I think that it came down to this is a tangent. 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.320 I think it was something like the state the state 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:53.000 agency was going to put it in place, but it 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:54.560 realized it was more it needed to be kind of 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:58.240 like a game commissioned decision or somehow it got put off. 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.239 We still don't have the trapper education course, but they 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:02.520 were able to do it with wolves. If you've bought 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:04.600 another thing to be similar to this is when you 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:08.880 buy um. You know, when you buy a deer hunting license, 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:12.320 you don't need to take a test that shows you 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.119 can tell the difference between a white tail and the 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:19.280 mule dere um. But when you buy a bear license 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.359 here you need to go on and take this little 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:26.520 primer that helps you distinguish black bear from a grizzly 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.560 so people don't accidentally, help prevent people accidently shooting grizzies. 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.600 Similar thing like that. Um, and it's pretty clear, like 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:34.680 it's it's clear you need to take this thing. I've 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:38.520 been on there and looked at the whole deal. Uh. 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:44.040 So he trapped wolf like otherwise legally trapped wolf was 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:46.080 not yelloso on part. It was private property on a ranch. 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.520 Trapped wolf. I don't know what happened, but it turned 0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:53.840 out that um. Uh, it turns out that he had 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:57.000 not gotten his Uh, he had not done the online certification, 0:24:57.760 --> 0:24:59.840 had a license, did all the other stuff, didn't have 0:24:59.880 --> 0:25:03.840 that online certification, didn't take the free of course, and 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.960 then there's been a um and was issued a warning. Hmm. 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:09.800 What do you kind of imagine about, like what would 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:11.880 be your line of thinking in a situation like that, 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:14.359 like if we if we remove the title? Yeah, and 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.280 that's the important part. I try to strip away the title. Yeah, 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:19.640 that you have someone who looked you know, it's quite 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:21.119 clear when you go on the website you're supposed to 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:24.680 do this thing forgot meant to get to it later 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:28.200 had read that part. Who knows, Um, how do you 0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:30.840 view something like that? Yeah, So I think that's a 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:34.360 key part of it, is removing the title as though 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:36.399 it's just a regular person. And then you got to 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:38.640 look at well, what was their intent? Were they trapping 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:43.400 with NB? Seven fifties? Um? Were they absolutely targeting a wolf? 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:46.679 Or was it incidental to kyo trapping? So once you 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:48.720 get to the bottom of that, and if it's as 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:51.440 simple as a hunter ed or a trapper head or 0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:56.040 wolf trapper head equation, um, you know, I think it 0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:58.560 depends on everything leading up to that. Like I said, 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:03.159 the whole the situation, in all the circumstances. Um. But 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.280 you know, a warning for doing something like that, it's 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:10.800 in season. Um, you could legally harvest it. Uh. It 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:13.160 just the problem was that he didn't have the necessary 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:18.320 trapper ed or wolf trapper ed certification. And so you know, yeah, 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.960 it's reasonable to get get a warning and you know, 0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:25.320 forfeit that wildlife since you didn't have, you know, the 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:29.639 necessary certifications. So you feel that in in a in 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.960 an interview situation, when all the facts are presented, you 0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:35.400 can see a scenario in which a warning is yeah, 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:37.840 and I mean what what you're looking at, you know, 0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:42.199 was the individual's intent to really buck the system and 0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:46.560 not take the trapping course. I mean, how long does 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:51.320 it take? Does anybody know? Oh? Five minutes? Yeah, and 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.200 it's online, you know, in Idaho it's gosh, just a 0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:57.480 twelve hour course. It might even be eight hours. Interesting 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:01.200 comparison wrap because it's like two out of three thing. Right, 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:04.320 he had his trapping license, he had his wolf tag, 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:10.560 but he didn't have the online certification. Yeah. Um, what 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:12.960 I have seen like down at the Hagerman Boat Ramp 0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:18.000 in Idaho waterfowl scenario. Right, Idaho has the migratory bird 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:23.040 like the state migratory Bird endorsement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, migratory 0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:26.600 So you have your hunting license, you have your federal 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:29.359 migratory duck stamp, but you don't have the two dollars permit. 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:33.000 But you don't have the two dollars the least expensive thing, 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.520 the two dollar thing, right, And I don't recall anybody's 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:41.399 ducks being take. I've seen many people get ticketed on 0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:46.240 that boat ramp for that. I don't recall anybody's ducks 0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:50.560 being Yeah. An example this is always bring up is uh. 0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:52.400 And I think I've mentioned it three times. A don't 0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:56.639 think it's it's wherew do you say? What was that word? Illustrative? 0:27:57.920 --> 0:28:01.080 I don't know illustrative just right, I'm using that. Well, 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:03.680 let's hear what you have to say that it was 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.320 a guy uh. And I remember he does some he 0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:13.080 does hunting media, and I remember that he you know, also, 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:15.439 you see these articles that he was like, um, honey, 0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:17.719 without a license or poaching an elk or whatever. Right, 0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:20.960 and it gets presented that way because that's splashy. But 0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:27.119 remember the thing being that he had his several hundred 0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:32.200 dollar nonresident ELK tag but hadn't gotten the five dollar 0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:36.560 bow hunter stamp. In a case like that, I'm not 0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:38.680 excusing it like you need to have you need to 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:41.320 have it, like you know, you're responsible to know all this, 0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:44.960 like absolutely, but you look and you when you look 0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:47.680 at the intent thing, I can't picture someone being like 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:51.360 and I know how to save five bucks, Like it 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:54.920 has to be another explanation besides someone you look for 0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:58.640 another explanation besides someone just pulling a fast one, you know, 0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:01.120 and you would see that, you know, that's a really 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:04.600 good example because in Idaho and Cali you're probably familiar 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:08.760 with this, is that you now need archery d to 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:13.640 get your archery permit, your validation. And so it could 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:17.440 be a system now where people are in that age 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:20.960 class that they would have to take archery education um 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:22.720 to get that permit that they don't want to take. 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:24.959 They don't want to waste the time to take however 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:28.240 many hours there it is. You know, you just gotta 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:31.920 look at all the circumstances, uh to to to find 0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:35.520 a lesson. Here, I would point out, I'm finding a lesson. 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:44.240 Imagine the uh imagine the embarrassment and distraction that one 0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:48.240 goes through in a situation like this. It's really just pays. 0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:53.560 It really pays to when you're engaging in a new activity, 0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:57.000 when time has gone by and the rules might have changed, 0:29:57.040 --> 0:30:01.440 an it pays to Uh, I'll put it this way. 0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:04.560 I sometimes when we're going to a new state, I'm 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:08.880 learning to have to be a practice to lay out 0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:12.000 to someone like, here's the things I have, Here's what 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:14.920 I want to do. Am I missing anything in my 0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:16.880 pile of stuff? Here? Like? Am I getting this right? 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:21.760 And a big part of solving that is getting also 0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:27.720 getting licenses from places where the vendors are familiar with 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.880 the rules. This is not the dog on Walmart, but 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:33.840 I've had to go into Walmart's um where they have 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:35.920 a sporting good section, and I've had to go in 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.760 and argue with people about what I need. Right, It's 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:42.400 nice to go to a place where and again I'm 0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:45.640 not I'm not trashing. It provides great service. Right, if 0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:49.040 people go buy stuff there, it's wonderful. But um, to 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:53.760 go to a place where you have more subject matter expert, 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.240 more likely to encounter a subject matter expert, and take 0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:59.440 the time to be like at the end of your 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:04.000 transact in the middle of it, be okay, I'm doing this, 0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.200 but I might do this and what if this happens? Like, 0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:14.320 am I is my situation dialed. Yeah, I would see 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.479 that a lot. Is that, Well, hey I bought I 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:18.800 bought my stuff at this vendor and they said I 0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:22.000 had everything I needed and it was you know, and 0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:24.240 what do you say that. It's just like, well you 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:27.200 don't have everything. Please go back, Please go back and 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:30.160 get your archery validation, Like I'm telling you you don't 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:32.880 have it, you know, And it's a simple fix, you know. 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:36.040 But very good point, Steve. I mean, you gotta go 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:40.280 to the subject matter expert and and choosing a place 0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:43.880 like that or maybe a gas station may not be 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:47.400 the right place. You got to where it's like the 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.520 crusty old guy who is not going to let you 0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:54.200 purchase anything until you've heard the fifteen minute history of 0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.880 the game unit lines being redrawn and it's not the 0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:00.760 way it was when he was a kid, and here's 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:03.920 how he knows. And then you can get down to 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:06.800 actually giving that person money and getting out the door, 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:09.959 as opposed to the just give me the thing and 0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:17.080 with the right stuff. Uh okay, the a little bit 0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:19.760 more on the we covered the We're there Chester when 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:23.680 we covered the hairy eyeball disease. Yeah, fascinating, man, what's 0:32:23.680 --> 0:32:28.480 it called weird stuff corneal dermoids. I don't know until 0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:33.080 very recently there's a it can hit humans. It's all 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:42.479 manner of mammal species where somehow you're eyeball becomes hairy, 0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:55.120 like the hair making stuff basically your eyeball somehow turns 0:32:55.200 --> 0:33:00.880 to basically skin and then it starts growing hair. Like yeah, crazy. 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:02.959 If you're a human, you can imagine it's probably you know, 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.120 all kinds of ways to fix it. But this this 0:33:05.200 --> 0:33:09.320 deer turns up blind like his problem in each eye. 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:11.560 Both eyes probably got worse and worse and worse and 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:13.560 worse till one day that deer was flat old blind 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:18.360 and its eyeball it's just hair. Yeah. The the the 0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:22.360 I think the case that's being referenced is they were 0:33:23.320 --> 0:33:26.600 I think they determined that this was something that came 0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:31.240 that that evolved over time, versus the deer being born 0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:34.479 with harry eyeballs. Because of the way that they're like, 0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:37.000 there's some learning how would have gotten that old, right, 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:40.560 there's some learned behavior here that probably couldn't come about 0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:45.400 any other way than if the deer could see up 0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:48.640 to a serious point and then and then it haired over. Well, 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:51.040 then plus the helplessness of it. But the reason I 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:53.920 bring this back up is this guy, a listener of 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:56.760 the show, sends in a picture from a cow elk 0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:00.240 from New Mexico. Um, it's not my inst Graham, So 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:03.840 if you go to add Stephen Roanella you'll find the um. 0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:06.400 Make sure to hit follow. Are you there you'll find 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:10.880 the a picture of this one. This Harry Eyeball, and 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:14.640 this is an elk shot. His body shot it, and 0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:16.600 he says. The funny thing is his body who shot 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.560 the elk is blind in the same left eye. So 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:23.720 the hunter in the elk have a bum eye left side. 0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:26.799 And this elk has hair. It's like as long as 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:32.000 Phil's hair, way way longer than Cal's hair. It's pretty gross. 0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:36.600 Let me see how long your hair is. Chester. Yeah, 0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:38.960 I'm losing it about the length of Phil in Chester's 0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:47.720 hair sticking out of his eyeball. Oh oh, I honestly 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:52.400 can't believe those those pictures weren't flagged for sensitive material 0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:55.640 because some stuff on your on your Instagram has it. 0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:58.359 I thought shouldn't be. But the cross Harry, you can 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.879 see an argument CROs Harry Eyeball, it is still Yeah, 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:04.120 wid wide open to all viewers. Someone's telling me that 0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:09.839 there's a medical Instagram page that gets flagged all the time. 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:12.920 So you can be trying to be constructive and helpful 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:17.399 and educational and still get flagged. It's people really don't 0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:23.520 like looking at these hairy eyeballs. Yeah, that's what I 0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:30.000 say when I see that, phil Um, if you find 0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:32.839 if we keep going, talk about a couple more things, Yeah, 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:34.880 I like. I think I like the next one. Honestly 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:37.960 into this one. You know, we're gonna talk about really 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:45.960 to talk to Karin, who's not here because she's not here. Evidently, No, 0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:48.320 she'd normally be here. She's not here, she's in Texas. 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.799 Crint just told you we're gonna talk about I'm forty sure, 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:52.240 I know. Does it feel like you're kind of watching 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:54.040 the sausage you get made when you have our when 0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:59.040 you have our stuff, there's a little bit of sausage making. Yeah. 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:01.680 How would you eight Karin as a producer? Oh she's 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.879 a top notch Yeah, I really. I gave her kudos 0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:08.400 the other day for that Preston Pittman piece. Yeah that 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:13.640 was fantastic. Yeah, it's springing, but you know, just he's always, always, 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:17.359 admired him when I was younger. Yeah, I love you know, 0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:20.560 as an young turkey hunter and he was, you know 0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:23.080 it back then been shot twice. Can't argue with that, 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.799 oh boy. But then it's also his you know, his 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:30.439 sage advice at the end. It was really great. He's 0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:41.799 a class act. Phil, you know what you ought to 0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:48.399 think about? Uh? I like, I like trail camps so much, 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:51.600 A trail camp pictures so much that, um, if we 0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:57.200 had an opening, like like, I don't know what it 0:36:57.200 --> 0:36:59.719 would look like. Oh, you know what we could use is, 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:09.439 um remember J Giles band centerfolds? Yeah, standard entertaining. Maybe 0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:12.000 a little something with that, maybe to intro the segment 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.600 caught on this is caught on trail cam. Um, so 0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:21.080 I'll be like tonight on caught on trail cam. Two 0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:24.279 bucks mounting each other. This is interesting. Cal is gonna 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:26.640 give us a report on this. So a guy sending 0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:31.520 some pictures of a buck mounting another buck. So buck 0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:36.240 mounting a buck for about six seconds. Turns out there's 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:43.320 this whole world of it's an obvious question why how'd 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:45.800 that come to be? And there's even like an acronym 0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:50.799 for it, S S B S s B stands for 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:54.920 it should be s S s B. It stands for 0:37:55.040 --> 0:38:02.520 same sex sexual behavior in wild Yanni's opinion, Yanni had 0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:08.040 always thought it was related to like his gas was, 0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:11.520 it was related to dominance. You know, they're always like 0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:13.640 fighting and posture and doing all kinds of stuff, and 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.640 it's like a dominance thing. One day, I was turkey 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:17.120 out with my kids. We were talking to a cattle 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.279 rancher because all of his cows were all mounting each other, 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:24.560 and for the life of me, I cannot remember what 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:26.680 he told me. Hopefully a cattle guy can write it, 0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:29.680 and we should have called one. I think he had 0:38:29.760 --> 0:38:33.560 just maybe weaned. No, you wouldn't be turkey season. You're 0:38:33.560 --> 0:38:37.439 not weaning him. No, not am No, there's a thing 0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:41.239 he told me, how long is our gestation period? Cal 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:46.200 you're not you're not pregning them yet. They don't have 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:49.800 a leven month gestation period. No, they have a brand 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:54.560 new calf. Yeah, but they're all mounting each other. Those 0:38:54.600 --> 0:38:57.200 would be probably the steers from the year before, right, 0:38:57.239 --> 0:39:01.800 It's not what that would be. Oh, yeah, I should 0:39:01.800 --> 0:39:06.600 be paying attention. Yeah, my kid was real curious about 0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:09.080 all the mountain going on. He told us, And I 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:11.640 must have been distracted by something, because for the life meeting, 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:14.040 we've got great people. There's a big cattleman I email 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:16.440 with down in Florida. He's headed like the Florida cattleman's 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:21.200 he'd tell me, damn sure, what's that count? Gestation period? 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:25.879 Two three days? That's that's an average between like our 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:30.600 our most common domestic cattle breeds. I bet you it's 0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:33.640 a year ling. It's the yearlying that's doing that, particularly 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:37.640 year linter steer. I bet you I got a turkey 0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:43.120 hundred yards from there. We had that conversation after hunting 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:48.880 turkey winter range. Yeah, yeah, big time. I probably wouldn't 0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:54.560 tell people that that might dispel some of my perceived expertise. Um, well, 0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:56.840 he's what what Eric's referring to. There is it in 0:39:56.960 --> 0:39:59.680 the inner Mountain West where winners are very severe and 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:03.280 where problem that were they're not historic populations of turkeys. 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:05.759 They have a way of in the winter finding their 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:09.120 way down to a cattle graining operation, find the biggest 0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:12.759 feed lot you can, and disperse and in migrate like 0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:15.640 considerable distances from those places, but you'll have it. You 0:40:15.719 --> 0:40:17.520 might have a rancher that's feeding cattle, and all of sudden, 0:40:17.520 --> 0:40:20.240 come February, he's got thys. Yeah, he's got every turkey 0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:22.840 within twenty mile. See it all across the west. And 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:26.440 then as soon as things start to green up, they 0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:28.040 just get bored and leave. And then they go off 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:30.560 and do turkey stuff. Yeah, everybody talks about how important 0:40:30.760 --> 0:40:32.600 you know, mule and their winter ranges, what we need 0:40:32.640 --> 0:40:36.279 to do to protect them. Geez, those turkey winter ranges. Yeah, 0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:39.200 it's pretty valuable. It should be like if you love turkeys, 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:44.080 hug a feed lot. Hug feed lot manager. All right, 0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:47.239 I'll lay it on for us. Uh. Well, I think 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:51.279 the It's interesting that this topic also popped up right 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:55.560 because Krant and I were talking about Preston and and 0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:59.560 he was talking about the homosexual turkey. He's like, there's 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:03.960 two who thinks that the turkeys either homosexual or the 0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:06.960 turkey's like being shot out before or something like to 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:09.320 account to account for why I would have no interest 0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:12.440 in the cause of a hen in coming in and 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:18.759 um we there's a discussion that followed of like is 0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:21.240 that correct? Is that just like an off the cuff 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:25.239 type of this is this is my reasoning and there's 0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:28.319 no reason for it. Good observation from a blitzman trying 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:30.359 to find an excuse for a long beard not coming 0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:36.000 in right, exactly right. But I was like, well, homosexual 0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:41.120 behavior in a huge variety of animals is is very 0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:46.480 well documented stuff. I mean, it is a plausible and 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:53.359 it is a pure reviewed possibility. You could say, right, 0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:58.239 people have written papers on this. Um. And then you 0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:04.640 can go even further, and there is the sexual Uh 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:11.960 what's the sexual ginandromorphism? Sexual dimorphism, not dimorphism that that's 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:13.880 just a difference in size. Oh yeah, there it is. 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:21.000 Bilateral ginandromorphs were half siders. Uh. And I did enough 0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:27.160 digging around. Super fascinating, but it's odd that it's the 0:42:27.280 --> 0:42:34.200 most apparent in birds. And you can have a true 0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:40.560 fifty fifty split and a um down the middle down, yeah, 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:46.880 down the middle. And uh, there's a uh guy in 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:51.680 Pennsylvania who got a couple of good pictures of a 0:42:51.760 --> 0:43:00.640 bilateral ginandro morph a cardinal in Pennsylvania, which is you know, uh, 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:06.440 split directly down the middle, red male resembling cardinal on 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:13.279 one side, female resembling cardinal on the opposite side. And um, 0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:15.680 this is documented enough to where he didn't turn the bird. 0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:18.640 You know, I didn't kill the bird in and dissect it. 0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:24.480 But ah, science would say that this bird has both 0:43:25.320 --> 0:43:30.319 ovaries and testes. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's the 0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:40.080 word bilateral jnando in jnando ginandral morphs half siders. That's 0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:45.520 really something, man. Yeah, I mean I thought so. But 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:47.879 one of the reasons people struggle with this with like 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.719 same sex of behavior and animals because you want to 0:43:50.719 --> 0:43:53.960 look at it like everything they do must right, has 0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:56.680 to be reproduction, has to be reproduction, else doesn't make 0:43:56.680 --> 0:43:58.840 any sense, right, But so that's the case, then you 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:04.120 have to d um to male deer attempting to mount 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:08.400 one another. Uh, there's no points which are not reproducing, 0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:13.200 so like that shouldn't happen, that's not reproduction. Yeah, and 0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:15.360 then you can go away down the rabbit hole. And 0:44:15.360 --> 0:44:19.320 and there's all sorts of papers of all sorts of 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:26.520 animals performing sexual acts that have that do not relate 0:44:26.640 --> 0:44:36.760 to reproduction worms from worms to drafts, including dolphins, lions, bison's, walrus, 0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.640 many birds. Yeah, there's a paper out of Japan those 0:44:41.480 --> 0:44:45.560 cool looking snow monkeys that oh I don't think those 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:53.560 monkeys are cool looking. Ice coated monkey, icy monkey in 0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:58.919 the hot spring is too much for me, Icy hot 0:44:59.000 --> 0:45:03.680 spring monkey. There's a lot for me to handle. They 0:45:04.560 --> 0:45:09.600 there is a paper out there that has there, you know, 0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:13.080 as all papers do, started with an observation led to 0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:17.160 a question of is this a one time thing or 0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:20.480 does this happen all the time? But those uh monkeys 0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:22.440 hop on top of the deer that come down to 0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:25.799 the hot springs and eat And maybe we did cover 0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:28.800 it on the Meat Eat podcast that the female of 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.239 female monkey would hop on a deer and then and 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:36.480 ride the deer until it found some sexual release and 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:39.799 then you know, I head back to the hot spring. Yeah. Incredible, Yeah, 0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:42.080 which might be something somewhere you've seen in your time 0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:44.440 in law enforcement around hot springs and a lot of 0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:48.880 geothermal over there. What's what's more remarkable than that the 0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:55.120 monkey does it is that the deer tolerates it. Yeah, 0:45:55.239 --> 0:45:59.480 that the deers like do they tolerate or do they 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:03.360 seem too? Yeah? I forgot about that story. Did you 0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:05.680 cover that on Cale's weekend review? I think so? It's 0:46:05.719 --> 0:46:08.400 hard hundred episodes. Yeah, who the hell knows what you covered? 0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:12.840 We we just just finished a hundred episodes. Phils nodding. Yeah, 0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:16.560 that's right. We can kind of off our regularly scheduled 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:20.160 programming the last for we're gonna get back to the 0:46:20.200 --> 0:46:24.600 news hard news cycle here on one on one. Uh, 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:27.040 how do you get I want to talk about this, 0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:30.880 this explanation for what's this what's the an acronym SSB 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:37.680 same sex behavior, Same sex sexual behavior one explanation, I 0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:39.880 should say it's an explanation. But like a thing to 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:42.279 think about is that you have to imagine like life 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:47.719 in all of its forms UM and when you had 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:50.680 life forms that had you know, but not that we 0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:54.319 don't anymore. We still do life forms that have UM 0:46:54.480 --> 0:47:00.960 less pronounced sexual dimorphism appearances side whatever that UM. Maybe 0:47:01.000 --> 0:47:05.320 at a time when you encountered or maybe amongst some species, 0:47:05.800 --> 0:47:11.759 you encounter a look alike and the one organism doesn't 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:17.800 know about the other organism what it is male female, right, Yeah, 0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:24.560 and they just they couple. Well. I think that where 0:47:24.600 --> 0:47:27.279 you're going with it is the fact that this has 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:30.319 been happening for a long time in a number of species. 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:34.120 But the fact of the matter is that it is 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:39.160 self limiting because there is no reproduction. Yeah, that that's 0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:43.080 the part that I found so interesting about it, says, 0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:47.040 And so we hypothesize that present day diversity and sexual 0:47:47.080 --> 0:47:52.600 behavior and animals stems from an ancestral background of you'll 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:59.319 like that, you'll appreciate this indiscriminate mating among individuals indiscriminate 0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:03.920 may indiscriminate mating among individuals of all sexes, and some 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:07.040 branches of the animal tree of life, where SSB is 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:11.439 actually quite costly, this behavior might be selected against. Yeah, 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:15.600 takes energy, takes energy, takes a lot of energy. You 0:48:15.600 --> 0:48:20.239 think about a lot, Cal, Oh, yeah, no, it's yeah. 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:22.600 I mean, we're facts of life stuff. There's just a 0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:25.200 lot of life out there. Is this kind of funny 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:27.279 when people talk about this stuff. Was if they've got 0:48:27.280 --> 0:48:30.360 like lab coats and clipboards. But maybe I'm being basic 0:48:30.400 --> 0:48:34.000 and crude here, but it's sort of like it's like 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:36.399 why are we all kind of wondering why why these 0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:39.040 animals have these same sex interactions when we we just 0:48:39.080 --> 0:48:41.120 have to like look at each other and look at humans, like, 0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:44.399 because we're not the same films, we didn't come from 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:46.759 No monkey, Yeah that's true, Cal, But I mean, like 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:49.719 maybe maybe I'm just maybe Occam's Razors and the way 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:51.200 to Go. But I'm just kind of thinking, like, well, 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:56.600 maybe they're just horny and sexuality is a weird, complex spectrum. 0:48:56.880 --> 0:49:00.160 There's something I'm attracted to. God, yeah it is is, 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:03.759 but you know, and that's like the odd thing, right. 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:06.880 It's like there's gonna be a chunk of the folks 0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:09.040 listening who are like, hey man, it's not Adam and Eve. 0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:16.360 But the thing is, it's like, well, boy, it's weird 0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:19.520 that birds do it, and bees do it, and and 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:24.960 worms do it and do it to do it and 0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:27.400 they've been around, they have a long time. Yeah. I 0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:30.920 don't look at it as I don't look at it is? 0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:35.400 Should they? I just look at it as huh okay, 0:49:35.680 --> 0:49:37.400 yeah yeah yeah. But I mean it's it's just kind 0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:39.200 of funny. We're like wondering, well, like why would they 0:49:39.200 --> 0:49:41.720 expend their energy if the whole thing is to reproduce? 0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:44.640 And like I totally understand that, but how many animals 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:47.480 when they engage in is it called coitus when it's 0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:50.640 animals when they have sex, how many of them have 0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:53.920 I know that they are they have a chance to 0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:57.480 reproduce and create another just acting on instinct, like I 0:49:57.560 --> 0:49:59.160 have this weird urge to do this, and I'm gonna 0:49:59.200 --> 0:50:03.360 do it. That's we're intelig enough to teach our kids 0:50:03.400 --> 0:50:06.480 and we know what will happen if this happens. Animals 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:10.759 c cucumber saying here's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I'm 0:50:10.760 --> 0:50:14.440 gonna make a lot more c cucumbers. When I expel exactly, 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:18.759 is he just he's just he's just doing what he 0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:21.800 feels like doing, whether it's a male or a female. 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:24.719 So like Darwin had this theory, right, and that was 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:28.680 a long long time ago, And like I just read 0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:33.640 a paper last year on giraffe specifically, right, and it's 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.560 like old giraffe's like the young bull old bowl thing, right, 0:50:36.600 --> 0:50:41.120 And there's like young giraffe bowls do a lot of mating, 0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:44.839 and the ones that made the most do not live 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:50.440 as long because they're they're really working hard, and the 0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:55.600 ones that don't put that much effort into maating live 0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.960 a lot longer. And because they live a lot longer, 0:50:59.000 --> 0:51:02.400 they end up having more offspring m you know. And 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:05.680 it's like, but you gotta work really hard, you know, 0:51:06.000 --> 0:51:10.319 And you know, there's the observation also of there's all 0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:14.240 sorts of communities out there that are it's like there, 0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:16.960 you know, it's a it's a frenzy of sexual activity. 0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:21.319 And the selection process isn't anything that we kind of 0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:24.440 come to the conclusion of of like is there actually 0:51:24.520 --> 0:51:29.080 selection process? If there was, then look at all the 0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:33.200 connections happening here, and why would any of that make sense? Right? So, 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:36.040 I mean it's it's all good questions, but no, like 0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:40.719 my conclusion isn't like I'll be damned. Yeah. What justifies 0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:43.880 me in feeling that I can go like, huh, is 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:47.200 because they're writing about it in like science and nature. Yeah, 0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:51.600 so there's still obviously a lot of there's someone like 0:51:51.800 --> 0:51:55.640 there's some scientific validity, and I don't think it can 0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:58.680 all be captured. I don't think you'd be like all 0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:06.239 cases are um pleasure inducing, all cases are mistaken attempts 0:52:06.239 --> 0:52:10.160 to reproduce, all cases are dominance. I mean could it's 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:17.799 probably this giant spectrum of impulses and desires. Uh, and 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:21.640 then you like overlay that on what humans do, right, 0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:23.960 And it's just like until we can figure out a 0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:28.759 way to start um interviewing all of these species and 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:33.000 animals and and get some get some straight facts. Uh, 0:52:33.160 --> 0:52:34.560 you know what, it seemed like he did this when 0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:37.440 you were younger. You identified as female when you were 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:41.120 younger and had millions of babies, but now you're male. 0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:43.759 Why did you choose to do that? You know, it's 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:47.200 like it's hard to apply it. You know, it's like 0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:53.359 nature is freaking fascinating and awesome. Yeah. Why is it 0:52:53.520 --> 0:52:59.920 legal to sell a mounted animals? Not that kind of 0:53:00.360 --> 0:53:05.719 not anytime amounting situation, but like a shoulder mount right 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:09.279 with hide on it, horns on it or antlers on it, 0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:12.920 whatever the case may be. But it is illegal to 0:53:13.000 --> 0:53:19.160 trade meat. So stems back to Lacy Act days early 0:53:19.400 --> 0:53:22.920 early on in the commercialization of wildlife, and so you 0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:27.359 don't want to profit off of um meat, specifically meat, 0:53:27.360 --> 0:53:30.279 because there absolutely is a value to wild game meat. 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:31.719 You know, you can go to the grocery store and 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:34.759 see domestic meat and see what value is placed there. 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:38.400 And so if it was incentivized to sell edible portions, 0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:42.279 it would be a huge problem. And that's what you know, 0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:44.840 primarily what we saw with the Lacy Act and the 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:48.680 development of that and other things, the Migratory Bird Act 0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:54.759 with trying to take away the value monetary value of 0:53:54.960 --> 0:53:58.880 specific wildlife and so um, that's why you know the 0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:02.920 basics of why you can't I'll meet game meat, but 0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:07.560 you can sell but a lot of times you can't 0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:10.799 sell of some things and some circumstances. You can't sell 0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:16.359 raw hides. Yeah yeah, sometimes you processed, Yeah, like you 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:20.280 The only way. The only outlet, at least in Idaho, 0:54:20.320 --> 0:54:25.000 and I'm sure this is consistent across the United States, 0:54:25.080 --> 0:54:29.000 is you can only sell a green hide. What Steve 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:32.160 is talking about, So his Martin hides or his beaver 0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:35.439 hides that are green haven't been tanned. The only person 0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:38.440 you could sell that too is a fur buyer that 0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:41.400 is permitted and licensed. You can't just go out and 0:54:41.840 --> 0:54:47.040 sell him on the street. Green. Um sounds going to 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:51.120 add to that? Oh that you can capes, you know 0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:54.960 you can make like I've sold cape soft things. I 0:54:55.040 --> 0:54:57.719 sold a cape one time for a thousand dollars. I 0:54:57.800 --> 0:54:59.279 was standing right next to a friend who sold a 0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:01.520 cape one time for six hundred bucks. Or if you 0:55:01.560 --> 0:55:03.960 have a tax numbers who has a client. Let's say 0:55:03.960 --> 0:55:05.880 a guys shoots a big something. She's a big but 0:55:06.000 --> 0:55:09.200 hits it through the neck and he's gonna put all 0:55:09.239 --> 0:55:10.719 this money in New Mouth, but the next is no good. 0:55:10.719 --> 0:55:12.959 So they wanted they want the cape, the neck hied 0:55:13.000 --> 0:55:14.520 off another dude to put the antlers out so it 0:55:14.600 --> 0:55:17.200 looks normal. Those are canna be quite valuable. You can 0:55:17.239 --> 0:55:20.200 strip that thing right off and sell it. Yeah. Yeah, 0:55:20.239 --> 0:55:21.799 And here I thought I was doing good with a 0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:25.680 forty white tail cape that I'd sell. Well, these weren't 0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:28.520 white tails. Yeah, but you know, I'm sure something to 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:31.759 the right person. But uh, it's just interesting, right, it 0:55:31.760 --> 0:55:34.120 doesn't How can I sell you that? But but I 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:38.279 can't sell you some neck meat too, Yeah, Nope, you can't. Yeah. 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:41.080 And I once sold the full cape of a white 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:45.239 tail buck, big bodied white tail buck to attack sermist 0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:50.319 in trade for him tanning my bare hide which you 0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:55.040 were barbering. Yeah, a little barber. Weren't trained neck meat. No, no, no, 0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:59.839 no neck meat. So you can see how, without knowing 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:01.680 the full story, you can see how people would look 0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:05.640 at that and be like that makes zero sense. Absolutely, yeah. 0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:11.960 And it's just about creating a commercial you know, situation 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:15.360 and monetizing it. That's the biggest problem. And you do 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:20.000 see in commercialization of wildlife cases. You know, it's not 0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:22.959 always about horns because it's a lot easier to get meat, 0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:26.120 and so you will occasionally see a case where they're 0:56:26.160 --> 0:56:30.640 just out you know, spotlighting deer to commercially sell the 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:34.160 meat because it it has value. When they put the 0:56:34.239 --> 0:56:40.359 laws into effect, um, they tailored it like you know. 0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:43.759 And and one of the things that inspired Theodore Roosevelt 0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:46.360 to do the conservation work that he did was the 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:48.520 what's that word the plant planet? What's that word for 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:53.080 hunting feathers? Plumage, plumage mark? What is the word for that? 0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:57.360 Isn't there like a not plenary but like feather hunters? 0:56:58.080 --> 0:57:03.759 So oh of shorebirds, yeah, like beautiful shorebirds. You know, 0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:06.640 people would want the feathers to decorate like like honestly, 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:10.160 to decorate hats. And there were people that made living 0:57:10.200 --> 0:57:15.680 shooting beautiful shorebirds, herons whatever to get togethers um and 0:57:15.719 --> 0:57:18.200 there they you know, you addressed it specifically, like the 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:20.600 market for big game was there was a market for meat. 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:23.800 So they're addressing the meat thing. There's a market for 0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:26.840 feathers on sather things, so they addressed like that market, like, 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:29.160 can't sell those feathers because that's what people are after. 0:57:29.480 --> 0:57:31.360 So it might leave room for like the things you 0:57:31.360 --> 0:57:35.200 can sell weren't things they were trying to address. Like 0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:37.760 if deer were being driven to extinction by cape hunters, 0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:40.919 they probably address selling capes. But this wasn't the case. 0:57:41.600 --> 0:57:44.080 It could be something to do with meat. Would be 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:48.120 harder to track the source. It's just meat. But if 0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:51.880 somebody's trying to sell up drop double drop time buck, 0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:55.680 it's pretty easy to be in today's day and age, 0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:59.040 easier to try and figure out who got that sucker, 0:57:59.120 --> 0:58:03.080 came for whatnot? That's driving me crazy. It's like plenary 0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:07.680 plan it's something I'll give. I'll give someone chapters bitcoin 0:58:07.680 --> 0:58:09.280 to whoever can figure out what the hell that word is. 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:12.080 It's not the plumage deal. That's a that's a good word, 0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:14.440 but that's not the word. Come on, someone find find it. 0:58:15.640 --> 0:58:18.760 I would type in something along the lines of millinary 0:58:18.680 --> 0:58:24.680 that it's not plenary specific to you Chester, how much 0:58:24.720 --> 0:58:28.000 bitcoin you're gonna give kel Well, I think it's specific 0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:34.600 to hats. Yeah, the feather hats people back then at 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:38.000 the turn of the century like feathered caps, and they 0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:41.440 were shooting shore birds to near extinction. Some of the 0:58:41.440 --> 0:58:46.000 big places that became like Wetland's refuges were made. Refuges 0:58:46.040 --> 0:58:48.960 is protected from the millinary what's the word millinary? The 0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:51.440 millinary trade? Try this went on, you can you can 0:58:51.520 --> 0:58:52.840 have you can weigh in on this. As a game 0:58:52.840 --> 0:58:57.280 Ward former game Ward, it was it's pretty caught and dry. 0:58:57.320 --> 0:58:58.960 But a guy from Maryland rights and this is this 0:58:59.000 --> 0:59:01.480 is funny. This is a good one got from Maryland. 0:59:01.520 --> 0:59:04.000 Justin from Maryland writes in about a disagreement between his 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:08.640 hunting club members. So when you go, he says, this 0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:10.640 is true in Maryland, but this is true everywhere. It's 0:59:10.640 --> 0:59:13.880 called it's something or another. Kell tells if you go, 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:17.040 like right now fall comes around, you decide to go 0:59:17.680 --> 0:59:25.680 hunt migratory waterfowl, you will be presented with a set 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:30.480 of questions about what happened to you last year when 0:59:30.480 --> 0:59:35.360 you went hunting. It'll be like ducks zero to five, 0:59:36.080 --> 0:59:41.320 five to twenty and higher whatever to help geese, like 0:59:41.400 --> 0:59:44.040 what you get right, and you get down and you'll 0:59:44.040 --> 0:59:46.440 get into weird stuff and be like coots and rails, 0:59:46.480 --> 0:59:48.920 you know, zero to five and you check just trying 0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:51.560 to get a sense of what all you got. What's 0:59:51.600 --> 0:59:58.600 that called hip? Yeah, that's the Harvest Information Program. Yeah, yep. Yeah, 0:59:59.320 --> 1:00:02.560 sometimes have dubs on there too. Any of the migratories, 1:00:03.000 --> 1:00:05.040 they're just trying to figure out what's going on. But 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:08.160 apparently in Maryland they have either either justin here is 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:11.280 confusing Maryland's own thing with the federal thing, or Maryland 1:00:11.320 --> 1:00:13.240 does their own thing. But he says he's belongs to 1:00:13.280 --> 1:00:17.240 a duck club and Maryland has a questionnaire. He says, 1:00:17.280 --> 1:00:20.200 in his duck camp, there are two sets of opinions 1:00:21.480 --> 1:00:27.320 about how to handle this questionnaire. Camp number one is 1:00:27.360 --> 1:00:31.040 that you lie and say you got fewer than you did, 1:00:32.160 --> 1:00:37.280 because the DNR, the Department Natural Resources there will look 1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:41.000 and be, oh, not that many geese got killed last year. 1:00:41.880 --> 1:00:47.800 Let's allow everyone to kill more. Now. Camp two is 1:00:47.840 --> 1:00:50.720 you lie and say you got more than you got, 1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:56.320 because then the d n I will think, geez, if 1:00:56.360 --> 1:00:59.080 they're killing that many geese, there must be a lot 1:00:59.120 --> 1:01:04.880 of geese. We should let him kill more. His camp 1:01:05.120 --> 1:01:07.920 is why not just tell him how many geese you 1:01:07.960 --> 1:01:12.760 got and we'll let them figure it out. And that's 1:01:12.800 --> 1:01:18.400 the camp. A guy should be got a game that 1:01:18.960 --> 1:01:21.440 we don't understand the game or the system, but we 1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:24.240 got a game to sis. It's clear by that explanation. 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:27.720 They don't understand that. It's like, like, the one thing 1:01:27.760 --> 1:01:29.560 we all agree on here is we're gonna gain the system. 1:01:32.040 --> 1:01:37.200 How to do that is where we find discord. All right, 1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:42.240 here's another listener feedback. It's not really a question. It's 1:01:42.240 --> 1:01:44.520 more like a I don't know what you call it. 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:47.280 You can decide eric what we call This guy writes 1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:51.960 in he lives in Gloucesters. How you say that Gloucester, Gloucester, Massachusetts. 1:01:52.040 --> 1:01:56.280 He calls it taxi Chusetts. He doesn't taxi Chusetts. And 1:01:57.000 --> 1:02:01.200 here's this problem, and this is legitimate. Gripe I got 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:06.320 his back on this freshwater licenses. So if you're in Massachusetts, 1:02:06.360 --> 1:02:09.680 historically you need it. You didn't need a freshwater fishing license. 1:02:10.120 --> 1:02:17.160 The freshwater fishing license sales went to fund the state 1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:20.360 Phishing Game Agency. And as we've covered a million times, 1:02:20.360 --> 1:02:23.360 and I'll say it one more time, your state fishing 1:02:23.360 --> 1:02:27.439 game agencies get their revenue to do all the things 1:02:27.440 --> 1:02:34.160 they do um ranging from access enhancement, to law enforcement, 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:39.040 to disease research, to all the things that go into wildlife, 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:42.840 making sure we have wildlife, making sure we can access wildlife, 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:47.520 like all that stuff gets funded by and large through 1:02:47.640 --> 1:02:51.240 excise taxes and license revenues. So the people that buy 1:02:51.360 --> 1:02:55.000 hunting and fishing licenses, um, whether they're aware of this 1:02:55.160 --> 1:02:57.480 or even care about this or not, that's what your 1:02:57.720 --> 1:03:02.160 licensed money does. But massive use. It's recently introduced a 1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:05.840 saltwater license. Okay, so this is true of a lot 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:08.400 of coastal states, a lot of coastal states. Fresh they 1:03:08.400 --> 1:03:13.200 have different freshwater licensed, saltwater license. They introduced saltwater license. 1:03:13.280 --> 1:03:15.040 And I can't believe, I can't believe we didn't hear 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:19.200 about this before. The saltwater license money goes into the 1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:21.400 general fund. And let me back up and say the 1:03:21.440 --> 1:03:25.800 general state fund. I'll back up and say this, when 1:03:27.840 --> 1:03:32.840 when a state sells hunting, fishing licenses and other permits 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:35.600 and stamps and stuff, they're able to take that money 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:39.480 and use it for wildlife management? What you the the 1:03:39.560 --> 1:03:42.440 federal government has the ability to make sure states don't 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:45.240 rob that money. Because you could picture to some guy 1:03:45.280 --> 1:03:47.720 would be like the highway guy in a state is like, 1:03:47.760 --> 1:03:50.240 well look at those assholes and fishing game. They got 1:03:50.280 --> 1:03:52.520 all that money, Let's take it and make a highway. 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:56.440 What prevents you from robbing the fishing game agency of 1:03:56.480 --> 1:03:59.520 their money and using it for non mission work is 1:03:59.560 --> 1:04:02.920 then you'd be come ineligible for federal matching dollars that 1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:05.480 come from excise taxes on sporting goods equipment. So they 1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:08.320 got some muscle there. They're like, if you steal money 1:04:08.320 --> 1:04:10.640 from your fishing if if you the state steals money 1:04:10.680 --> 1:04:13.120 from your phishing game agency, we're gonna make you regret 1:04:13.200 --> 1:04:15.600 it by kind of screwing you and not giving you 1:04:15.640 --> 1:04:17.720 other money that you could have got. So it incentivizes 1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:19.680 you to leave that money there. But they made a 1:04:19.720 --> 1:04:22.440 saltwater license and it just goes into the general slush fund. 1:04:23.320 --> 1:04:26.960 According to this gentleman, it doesn't go into funding fishing game. 1:04:27.560 --> 1:04:31.040 And he's basically like what gives I don't know what. 1:04:31.280 --> 1:04:34.680 It sounds stupid to me. You lost, like stay to 1:04:34.760 --> 1:04:38.440 do this all the time, Like I see this legislation 1:04:38.480 --> 1:04:41.800 all the time where it's like there's a bunch of 1:04:41.840 --> 1:04:44.439 money over here that we could be using for all 1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:48.120 sorts of other things. Why don't we get some of that? 1:04:48.560 --> 1:04:50.680 And I know what you just explained about that if 1:04:51.040 --> 1:04:56.880 I haven't read up on Massachusetts, uh uh, this this 1:04:56.920 --> 1:04:59.800 particular case from Massachusetts. But Yeah, you gotta find yourself 1:05:00.560 --> 1:05:05.040 a state lawmaker that wants wants to write this situation, 1:05:05.080 --> 1:05:08.360 because yeah, that that's a bunch of crap. If you're fishing, 1:05:08.400 --> 1:05:10.960 dollars don't go to fishing, they go to, you know, 1:05:11.120 --> 1:05:16.600 something like a school lunch program. You're out there catching lunch. Yeah, 1:05:16.640 --> 1:05:18.440 And I think it comes down to, you know, not 1:05:18.560 --> 1:05:23.080 every state has a separate A lot of states get 1:05:23.120 --> 1:05:28.960 their funding through general funds, um state coffers, through general 1:05:29.000 --> 1:05:30.880 taxes and everything. So it would be curious to know 1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:34.320 how Massachusetts rates with that, you know, for all, like 1:05:34.360 --> 1:05:37.480 there could be some complexifying issues like how Missouri has 1:05:37.520 --> 1:05:40.080 that license plate tax that helps fund wild but yeah, 1:05:40.200 --> 1:05:43.000 or you know, look at Oregon for a pretty good example. 1:05:43.480 --> 1:05:47.240 Their fishing wildlife enforcement is under the Oregon State Police, 1:05:48.280 --> 1:05:51.480 So I don't know what percentage they get from Oregon 1:05:51.520 --> 1:05:57.440 Fishing Wildlife, Oregon Department Fishing Wildlife. But um, in comparison, 1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:00.240 you know in Idaho where I worked, there was it 1:06:00.320 --> 1:06:03.040 was just straight up licensed dollars. There was no general 1:06:03.080 --> 1:06:06.360 fund money. And so what you were referring to before 1:06:06.560 --> 1:06:10.040 was PR and DJ Pittman, Robinson and Dingle Johnson, which 1:06:10.040 --> 1:06:12.960 are those federal excise taxes and usually it's at a 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:15.800 three to one. For every one dollar UM the state 1:06:16.040 --> 1:06:21.320 puts forth, it gets three dollars matching. But pr DJ 1:06:21.480 --> 1:06:27.000 can't be used for law enforcement. Oh yeah, you have 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:30.880 to use your license revenue for law enforcement. Yep. Okay, 1:06:30.920 --> 1:06:34.720 I'm gonna make a promise to listeners if this is 1:06:34.840 --> 1:06:38.720 totally If this is totally wrong, you won't be hearing this. 1:06:40.240 --> 1:06:43.320 If it's at least right enough to warrant the discussion 1:06:43.400 --> 1:06:52.200 we're having, you will hear it. It's fair. Okay, yeah, uh, okay. 1:06:53.040 --> 1:06:56.240 You went to work for Trout Unlimited. I did you 1:06:56.360 --> 1:07:02.400 got involved in samon sam in a steel Head primary 1:07:03.720 --> 1:07:06.280 scope of work? Lay it out for me. What does 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:08.560 the sculpt work like your job? When you apply for 1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:10.439 your job, what was the job to script? Yeah, so 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:16.640 the job title was North Idaho Field Coordinator. Basically it 1:07:16.760 --> 1:07:22.040 was just in summary UM policy work, outreach and engagement 1:07:22.080 --> 1:07:25.240 work all associated with salmon and steel head throughout the 1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:27.840 snake of a basin. There's a little bit of my 1:07:27.920 --> 1:07:31.320 work plan, my annual work plan that is dedicated to 1:07:31.480 --> 1:07:36.160 what we refer to is upcountry UM protections. So part 1:07:36.200 --> 1:07:39.320 of what UM the portion of trout and limited that 1:07:39.360 --> 1:07:42.960 I work for is the Angler Conservation Program, and so 1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:46.560 we do all the outreach and engagement and policy stuff 1:07:47.200 --> 1:07:49.400 in addition to our other staff. But that's the crux 1:07:49.440 --> 1:07:52.400 of what we do. So a combination of cold water 1:07:52.440 --> 1:07:57.120 fisheries related UM policy UM as well as like I said, 1:07:57.240 --> 1:08:01.120 public lands protections and so those up up country protections 1:08:01.120 --> 1:08:04.120 would be UM what is affectionately called in the clear 1:08:04.160 --> 1:08:07.360 Water basin UM the Great Burn, So just an area 1:08:07.440 --> 1:08:10.960 there and but then primarily my day in and day 1:08:11.000 --> 1:08:13.560 out stuff is focused on SAM and a steel head 1:08:13.560 --> 1:08:16.320 throughout the Snake River basin. And of course now there's 1:08:16.400 --> 1:08:20.920 much more focus with Representative Mike Simpson's recent release of 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:25.000 his proposal, the Northwestern Transition. Yeah, and we're gonna be 1:08:25.280 --> 1:08:27.599 uh in a moment here we're gonna be joined by 1:08:27.880 --> 1:08:33.000 Congresson Mike Simpson from Idah. How uh He's gonna lay 1:08:33.000 --> 1:08:40.240 out this very UM ambitious, complicated, costly but I would 1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:45.559 argue like extremely important to consider and pursue a version 1:08:45.640 --> 1:08:49.360 of UM with all necessary tweaks made, but like to 1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:54.599 move to to pursue a version of this meaning UM 1:08:56.600 --> 1:09:01.200 the Snake River damn dilemma that we I would like 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:05.040 to see it that we switched to being um, yes, 1:09:05.320 --> 1:09:10.040 those damns have to go. How do we do it? Yeah? Yeah, 1:09:10.040 --> 1:09:12.080 and we do it as painlessly as possible. And I 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:15.040 think that this is you know, I'm sure there's any more. 1:09:15.680 --> 1:09:20.080 He's proposing a version of that, being like, it's got 1:09:20.160 --> 1:09:24.920 to happen. Um, we're in the driver's seat. Let's make up. 1:09:25.200 --> 1:09:28.479 Let's make a palpable version for ourselves. How did you 1:09:29.360 --> 1:09:31.120 before he comes out? How did you like, because you 1:09:31.160 --> 1:09:34.200 introduced me to this and you you approached us about 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:37.559 having this conversation, how how did you guys? Worlds kind 1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:42.599 of collide on this. Uh so UM trout a limit. 1:09:42.600 --> 1:09:45.960 It has been dedicated to restoring the lower snakes. So 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:48.360 when we refer to the lower snake, we're talking about 1:09:48.360 --> 1:09:52.240 approximately a hundred forty miles stretch from the confluence of 1:09:52.280 --> 1:09:56.000 the Columbia River down by Try States Washington up to 1:09:56.800 --> 1:10:01.000 um the Lewiston Clarkston area of Idaho, h forty aisles 1:10:01.040 --> 1:10:05.120 of what is now a damned river for UM. Federally 1:10:05.760 --> 1:10:10.280 UM managed hydro dams create an immense slack water and 1:10:10.320 --> 1:10:13.920 so way back in the nineties, right shortly after the 1:10:14.000 --> 1:10:16.960 listing of most of the species within the Snake River basin. 1:10:17.040 --> 1:10:20.920 So we have saki that are listed as endangered starting 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:24.200 in ninety one and then up through with spring and 1:10:24.280 --> 1:10:27.320 summer chinook and fall schinook in the in the mid nineties, 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:30.439 and then ninety seven kind of was the end of 1:10:30.479 --> 1:10:33.320 it with steelhead being listed in the Snake River basin 1:10:33.360 --> 1:10:37.160 has threatened and so UM way since that time try 1:10:37.240 --> 1:10:41.200 to limit it has been UM of the opinion UM 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:44.720 and rightfully so or a science based organization that the 1:10:44.800 --> 1:10:48.360 removal of the four lower Snake dams would provide the 1:10:48.400 --> 1:10:52.200 best opportunity for recovery and restoration to those some monded 1:10:52.240 --> 1:10:55.599 species throughout the Snake River basin. So since ninety seven, 1:10:55.640 --> 1:10:58.080 this is something that we've been dedicated to in a 1:10:58.200 --> 1:11:02.040 variety of ways. UM. You know, not only the portion 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:05.400 of the organization that I work for. UM. We have 1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:07.640 the water and Habitat program that does a lot of 1:11:07.640 --> 1:11:10.280 the restoration work. People are very familiar with with with 1:11:10.280 --> 1:11:13.759 what we do at Trout Unlimited, you know, and restoring 1:11:13.760 --> 1:11:17.559 habitat throughout the Upper Salmon Basin in particular, and so 1:11:18.080 --> 1:11:22.800 UM now we have found, you know, a champion, you know, 1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:27.720 for these fish and Representative Simpson. UM. And I think 1:11:27.720 --> 1:11:31.600 that the really great part of his proposal is that 1:11:31.680 --> 1:11:34.320 it's broad. It's not just focused on salmon or steelhead. 1:11:34.479 --> 1:11:37.479 It's in it's focused on the entire region, you know, 1:11:37.560 --> 1:11:40.400 looking outside of the borders of his not only is 1:11:40.479 --> 1:11:44.560 congressional district, but outside the borders of Idaho throughout the Northwest. 1:11:44.560 --> 1:11:48.840 And how this can benefit everybody that is involved or 1:11:48.880 --> 1:11:50.760 could be impacted by it. And I think that's the 1:11:51.160 --> 1:11:55.040 most incredible thing, and that's really important to trout unlimited. 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:57.760 You know, yeah, restoring and recovering salmon and steel had 1:11:57.760 --> 1:12:00.760 throughout that basin, but making sure of that all the 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:06.360 stakeholders come out whole. So yeah, do you guys, how 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:09.360 many I know you don't know the entire history because 1:12:09.400 --> 1:12:12.679 you were busy doing your other job. Um, how often 1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:14.840 do is something like this come along? Like this proposal, 1:12:15.000 --> 1:12:17.640 a proposal like this, This is a once in a 1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:21.439 lifetime proposal. Yeah. I mean, here's the fact of the matter. 1:12:21.760 --> 1:12:24.759 So Ice Horror is the lowest snake or the lowest 1:12:24.840 --> 1:12:27.600 dam on the Snake River. Um. It was completed in 1:12:27.640 --> 1:12:32.920 ninety two. The furthest upstream uh damn on the Lower 1:12:32.920 --> 1:12:36.960 Snake is Lower Granite, which was completed in nine. Through 1:12:37.000 --> 1:12:39.759 the course of construction on those four Lower Snake River dance, 1:12:39.800 --> 1:12:44.360 we saw a very um steep declines in salmon populations 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:48.080 and steel a populations that are it's clearly correlated to 1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:52.679 the hydro development, okay, and just have not seen any 1:12:52.720 --> 1:12:57.599 recovery of those numbers. Despite millions and millions of dollars annually, 1:12:57.920 --> 1:13:02.000 you know, into um mitigate efforts throughout the hydro system, 1:13:02.000 --> 1:13:05.120 throughout the basin and restoration, we still don't see it recover. 1:13:05.160 --> 1:13:09.959 And so here here comes a congressman from Idaho, UM 1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:12.640 that hopefully will here. You know, he truly is a 1:13:12.640 --> 1:13:17.120 conservation champion, UM and it's pretty remarkable of his accomplishments already. 1:13:17.160 --> 1:13:21.040 But here he brings forth this proposal that literally, like 1:13:21.080 --> 1:13:25.479 I said, encompasses the entire Northwest that quite frankly could 1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:29.960 be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And it's people, 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:32.840 just look, it's a hundred forty miles of river that 1:13:33.000 --> 1:13:35.800 you know is damned. Well, then we we look what's 1:13:35.840 --> 1:13:41.719 above those damns, and how huge that landscape is, you know, humongous, humongous, Watershed. 1:13:41.800 --> 1:13:44.080 When we start talking about the clear water, the lock Saw, 1:13:44.560 --> 1:13:47.680 the Sellway, the Middle Fork, the Upper Salmon, and and 1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:51.040 a lot of it is still in Christine habitat are 1:13:51.360 --> 1:13:57.000 Christine condition about of the historical spawning and rearing habitat 1:13:57.120 --> 1:13:59.479 is still intact. And the Snake River basin that's something 1:13:59.479 --> 1:14:01.800 I had thought of. That's a good point. Yeah. And 1:14:01.840 --> 1:14:04.880 I mean you're like, you're you're you're restoring access to 1:14:04.920 --> 1:14:08.599 something that's ready to roll. Yeah. And and and Cal's 1:14:08.640 --> 1:14:11.639 heard me make the comparison, and and it's it's it's 1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:15.000 my my blind date comparison, you know. Is that Hey man, 1:14:15.320 --> 1:14:17.360 there's this, you know, I'm scheduled to go on a 1:14:17.360 --> 1:14:20.920 blind date, you know, tonight, and the place settings is 1:14:20.960 --> 1:14:24.479 all set, there's beautiful silver, nice bottle of wine. But 1:14:24.560 --> 1:14:26.880 my date, my date doesn't show up. Well, I'll come 1:14:26.880 --> 1:14:29.559 back tomorrow. And my date doesn't show up. And the 1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:32.080 same thing is with the habitat there, you know, and 1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:36.280 or the table is set, it's beautiful, like it's gonna 1:14:36.280 --> 1:14:39.559 be a good date tonight, but my partner doesn't show up, 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:42.640 you know. And so that's the way you have to 1:14:42.680 --> 1:14:45.920 look at it, you know. And when you have that 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:52.920 much intact habitat, it is beyond approach to not give 1:14:52.960 --> 1:14:56.280 it the opportunity, those fish the opportunity to really maximize it, 1:14:56.720 --> 1:14:59.240 you know, And that's what we're looking to do. UM. 1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:02.920 Much of this based off of when we look at UM, 1:15:03.080 --> 1:15:05.240 how salmon are doing. And this is where people really 1:15:05.240 --> 1:15:08.280 get confused. They're like, well, jeez, we're still fishing for them. Man. 1:15:08.280 --> 1:15:10.240 We had a great run, you know, just a couple 1:15:10.280 --> 1:15:13.960 of years ago, which we've had our ups and downs. UM. 1:15:14.000 --> 1:15:16.840 A lot of that opportunity, all of that opportunity is 1:15:16.880 --> 1:15:21.559 based on hatch reproduction. About thirty three million salmon and 1:15:21.600 --> 1:15:26.440 steelhead smolts get released into the Snake River basin annually. UM. 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:29.320 But when you look at what we refer to as 1:15:29.360 --> 1:15:32.200 a smolt to adult return ratios, and so that's just 1:15:32.240 --> 1:15:36.519 the simple idea that a hundred smolts outmigrate to the 1:15:36.640 --> 1:15:40.080 ocean and one adult comes back. That's the simplest way 1:15:40.120 --> 1:15:45.040 to do the math. That's one all right, UM, one percent. 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:48.680 If you have one of anything, you're not reproducing, right, 1:15:48.720 --> 1:15:52.360 And so many of our populations are there now throughout 1:15:52.360 --> 1:15:55.800 the Snake River basin. UM teetering just at you know, 1:15:56.080 --> 1:15:59.920 UH spring and summer chinook or teaching at point nine 1:16:00.000 --> 1:16:04.799 percent UM the steel head summer steel head to inhabit 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:08.840 the Snaker basin are just over UM one percent, and 1:16:08.880 --> 1:16:12.120 so we're not making what we refer to as two percent, 1:16:12.160 --> 1:16:15.599 which is the maintenance level. And so we strive through 1:16:16.320 --> 1:16:21.200 lots of different UH venues, whether it's the Northwest Power 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:26.280 Planning Council UM or recently the Columbia Basin Collaborative, there's 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:28.360 a bunch of agreement on what the metrics should be. 1:16:28.880 --> 1:16:31.160 S a rs are that one metric from two to 1:16:31.240 --> 1:16:33.360 six percent with an average of four percent is the 1:16:33.600 --> 1:16:36.439 is the goal? Right down the Stank River basin, we're 1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:38.200 not meeting that. And when you really start to look 1:16:38.240 --> 1:16:41.040 outside of the basin and look at rivers that are 1:16:41.080 --> 1:16:44.760 below the lower Snake and don't and fish that don't 1:16:44.800 --> 1:16:48.559 have to pass four dams, you see much better s 1:16:48.600 --> 1:16:52.080 a rs. You know, above two percent, you know, upwards 1:16:52.120 --> 1:16:55.400 of five and almost close to six percent. So lower 1:16:55.520 --> 1:16:58.559 in in the Columbia, you know, and this is this 1:16:58.640 --> 1:17:01.360 goes back to this other idea of well it's all 1:17:01.400 --> 1:17:04.800 ocean conditions. It's all ocean conditions. Look at every other 1:17:04.800 --> 1:17:10.000 population throughout the range of salmon and steel heads. Steelhead, well, 1:17:10.040 --> 1:17:13.000 it is partly ocean conditions. Ocean conditions are something that 1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:17.200 we as mankind can no longer control. Right now, we 1:17:17.280 --> 1:17:20.719 can control the hydro system UM, and we have tried 1:17:20.760 --> 1:17:23.639 to do that to increase s a RS, but haven't 1:17:23.960 --> 1:17:26.880 haven't figured out that that magic bullet. And so here 1:17:26.920 --> 1:17:32.679 comes to Representative Simpson with this bold um all encompassing plan, 1:17:33.240 --> 1:17:37.040 you know that takes everything into account. There's a question 1:17:37.080 --> 1:17:38.760 that comes up all the time, Like I saw it, 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:44.720 a bunch of like why aren't hatcheries uh at performing 1:17:44.720 --> 1:17:48.719 at capacity? Like we're not running the camp the full 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:52.080 capacity of our hatcheries. If we did that, then we'd 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:56.479 have enough. Yeah and so, and that comes back to 1:17:57.040 --> 1:18:00.559 this idea that thirty three million Smoltz isn't enough, right, 1:18:00.960 --> 1:18:05.560 and that we need more. But hatchery fish underperformed wildfish 1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:08.599 right now as it is, so they have even lower 1:18:08.720 --> 1:18:13.400 essa RS than what we see UM in wildfish. Never 1:18:13.479 --> 1:18:18.200 mind that the the figure that is used to evaluate 1:18:18.600 --> 1:18:22.800 the productivity of the hatcheries is the adult returns. That 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:26.680 is what UM. The funding mexicum mechanism for most of 1:18:26.720 --> 1:18:30.600 the hatcheries throughout the basin, which is approximately seventeen or 1:18:30.640 --> 1:18:33.920 so UM. It through comes through Lower Snake camp Um, 1:18:33.960 --> 1:18:38.000 which is funded partially through Bonneville Power UM, the main 1:18:38.439 --> 1:18:44.400 electric and entity that operates the whole hydra system. But 1:18:44.520 --> 1:18:49.439 adult returns are how they are evaluated, and not once 1:18:49.520 --> 1:18:53.240 have they met their adult return goals. So just by 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:57.439 increasing more smolts it's likely because of the essay rs, 1:18:57.560 --> 1:18:59.479 because of the impact of the hydra SYSM, it's not 1:18:59.560 --> 1:19:03.599 gonna roof, you know, and it doesn't just by producing 1:19:03.640 --> 1:19:07.680 more hatchery fish doesn't get us to recovery or restoration, 1:19:08.439 --> 1:19:12.320 and we can spend a lot of money on hatchery fish. Yeah, yeah, 1:19:12.400 --> 1:19:15.320 I mean it's annually. Lower snake comp in the Stinker 1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:18.560 Ever basin is funded at thirty one million dollars annually, 1:19:19.240 --> 1:19:21.640 and that's just flushing fish down the system, you know, 1:19:21.720 --> 1:19:24.280 and hope that there's gonna be opportunity, and you just 1:19:24.320 --> 1:19:26.720 want to be there when they're doing that, because the 1:19:26.720 --> 1:19:31.559 bull trout fishing is unbelievable. Catch these balls that are 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:38.679 just there, uh spewing salmon small and steel had small 1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:41.919 out when you when you pick them up, it's amazing 1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:46.120 expensive Belgians. Yeah, I was talking to a a guy in 1:19:46.160 --> 1:19:47.800 a bar and catch can one time, and he was 1:19:47.840 --> 1:19:52.280 working at a hatchery, a coho hatchery, and cohoes, you know, 1:19:52.280 --> 1:19:55.559 they stay in the in the natals spawning stream an 1:19:55.560 --> 1:19:59.320 extra year, right, so um, when they go out there, 1:19:59.320 --> 1:20:01.320 pretty big. They spend a lot longer in the river. 1:20:01.680 --> 1:20:03.200 So when you have a coh hatchery, you need to 1:20:03.200 --> 1:20:06.360 rear the co host a lot longer than some other 1:20:06.400 --> 1:20:09.040 salmon's that that that don't need as much time. And 1:20:09.160 --> 1:20:12.280 you know, and sort of like in stream incubation. He 1:20:12.360 --> 1:20:15.240 was saying, they'd go out and and uh let some 1:20:15.320 --> 1:20:19.120 of the release some of these hatchery releases into the ocean, 1:20:20.080 --> 1:20:23.720 and these humpbacks, humpback of whales would get onto that, 1:20:25.160 --> 1:20:27.200 he said. You'd see that mouth come up, you know, 1:20:27.400 --> 1:20:29.240 and he'd be like, well, there goes a quarter million 1:20:29.240 --> 1:20:45.160 dollars a quarter million dollars or so we're gonna jump 1:20:45.240 --> 1:20:48.360 over and talk now. And thanks for the introduction here 1:20:49.200 --> 1:20:57.799 talking now to Congressman Mike Simpson from Ida. Hope, Oh Okay, 1:20:57.800 --> 1:21:01.240 without much further ado, we are joined to buy Congressman 1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:06.080 Mike Simpson from Idaho. Uh, Congressman Simthic. You lay out 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:08.960 for us a little bit about some of the some 1:21:09.080 --> 1:21:11.920 of the issues you've been involved in in your career 1:21:12.040 --> 1:21:16.160 that are pertinent hunters and anglers and and outdoors people 1:21:16.280 --> 1:21:18.160 like some of the areas in which you've played and 1:21:18.240 --> 1:21:23.400 influenced the world we live in. Sure, you have to 1:21:23.439 --> 1:21:25.599 remember that in Idaho, most people live here because they 1:21:25.600 --> 1:21:27.920 love our outdoors, They love our public lands, They love 1:21:28.000 --> 1:21:31.400 the fish and hunting and recreate in uh in our 1:21:31.439 --> 1:21:33.960 public lands. So I've been very active and trying to 1:21:34.000 --> 1:21:37.080 maintain those public lands. Whether it was through the Boulder 1:21:37.080 --> 1:21:40.160 White Clouds initiative that created the wilderness for the Boulder 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:43.679 White Clouds, it had been wilderness study area for years, 1:21:43.720 --> 1:21:45.519 and I came to conclusion and somebody need to make 1:21:45.520 --> 1:21:47.600 a determination what was going to be wilderness and what 1:21:47.680 --> 1:21:51.280 was going to be released for multiple use. So we 1:21:51.400 --> 1:21:53.639 passed that bill. It took about fifteen years to get 1:21:53.640 --> 1:21:56.599 it done, but we got that done. And then one 1:21:56.600 --> 1:21:58.720 of the things I think I'm proud of Stu is 1:21:58.840 --> 1:22:02.240 the Great American Outdoor res Act the past just last 1:22:02.320 --> 1:22:05.400 year or year four last I guess, uh and uh 1:22:05.439 --> 1:22:08.679 you know that deals with land and water conservation fund 1:22:08.720 --> 1:22:12.040 and fully funding it. That also maintains access, and that 1:22:12.120 --> 1:22:14.479 was one of the important parts of this, the access 1:22:14.520 --> 1:22:17.760 for hunters and anglers and those types of things. You 1:22:17.760 --> 1:22:19.559 can love the public lands, but if you can't have 1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:22.439 access to them, it doesn't really mean much. So I 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:25.400 think that was one of the strongest environmental bills has 1:22:25.439 --> 1:22:28.400 probably passed since the Wilderness Acts. So I've been actively 1:22:28.439 --> 1:22:31.479 involved in these issues for a number of years, both 1:22:31.520 --> 1:22:34.680 relative to Idaho and the nation as a whole. And 1:22:34.760 --> 1:22:40.719 now you're setting your setting your sights on um helping 1:22:40.800 --> 1:22:44.479 us through making a plan about what we're gonna do 1:22:45.680 --> 1:22:49.280 about some of the damns we have on the major 1:22:49.360 --> 1:22:52.960 salmon rivers in the West. Uh. I want to get 1:22:53.000 --> 1:22:54.559 to I want to get through a little bit of 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:57.519 history for people first. But can you um, you know, 1:22:58.080 --> 1:23:02.480 encapsulate what you're what you're proposing, How you became interested 1:23:02.479 --> 1:23:06.000 in this subject. Sure, you know this has been a 1:23:06.000 --> 1:23:08.200 debate that's been going on for twenty five or thirty 1:23:08.280 --> 1:23:11.920 years in the Pacific Northwest. You're seeing Idaho salmon runs 1:23:11.960 --> 1:23:14.679 declined substantially. In fact, they're on the path to extinction 1:23:14.720 --> 1:23:17.439 if we don't do anything else. The other issue is 1:23:17.479 --> 1:23:21.000 the Bonneville Power administration and the fact that at one 1:23:21.040 --> 1:23:23.479 time they were the lowest cost producer of energy in 1:23:23.479 --> 1:23:27.360 the Pacific Northwest. And so consequently all your rural electrics 1:23:27.360 --> 1:23:30.800 and others used Bonneville Power power because it was the 1:23:30.840 --> 1:23:32.760 cheapest they could get. There no longer the cheapest in 1:23:32.760 --> 1:23:35.360 the Pacific Northwest. So on the one hand, how do 1:23:35.360 --> 1:23:39.160 you make Bonneville Power sustainable for the future and competitive 1:23:39.200 --> 1:23:41.840 for the future. UH, And one of the one of 1:23:41.880 --> 1:23:43.479 the things that has to be done is to end 1:23:43.520 --> 1:23:47.759 the salmon wars, the endless litigation that that occurs about 1:23:47.800 --> 1:23:51.519 salmon recovery in the Pacific Northwest. And UH to do 1:23:51.600 --> 1:23:54.200 that if you're gonna return Idaho salmon runs that are 1:23:54.240 --> 1:23:57.559 on the endangered list, almost every fish biologist that I've 1:23:57.560 --> 1:23:59.200 talked to says that you're gonna have to remove the 1:23:59.200 --> 1:24:02.280 lower Sneak River ams. So we put out a concept 1:24:02.360 --> 1:24:04.479 that does that. But of course, what you say you're 1:24:04.479 --> 1:24:09.479 gonna read you're gonna retire those dams or remove those dams. 1:24:10.240 --> 1:24:11.800 Then you have to look at what are the value 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:14.000 of the dams, and what does that do to the stakeholders, 1:24:14.000 --> 1:24:17.640 and how do you compensate the stakeholders or put them 1:24:17.680 --> 1:24:20.639 in a better position than they were before. So if 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:22.240 you can do that, if you can read, if you 1:24:22.240 --> 1:24:24.400 can make the stakeholders hold again, if you can remove 1:24:24.439 --> 1:24:27.160 the dams to help restore the salmon, you can end 1:24:27.160 --> 1:24:28.920 the lawsuits, and if you can make b P a 1:24:29.000 --> 1:24:32.320 competitive that's a huge task. UH. It's something that we've 1:24:32.320 --> 1:24:34.519 been working on, working on for about three years, and 1:24:34.520 --> 1:24:36.760 we've had about three meetings, maybe as many as five 1:24:36.800 --> 1:24:40.559 hundred meetings with different constituency groups about the issues that 1:24:40.600 --> 1:24:43.599 surround that. UH. And that's that's what we've been doing 1:24:43.640 --> 1:24:46.439 over the last three years. We released a concept in 1:24:46.720 --> 1:24:50.040 UH in February so that people could talk about it. UH. 1:24:50.439 --> 1:24:52.479 As I said, this is a discussion that has to 1:24:52.560 --> 1:24:55.439 happen UH, and I'm glad we started it and now 1:24:55.439 --> 1:24:58.920 we'll see where it goes. Would you mind helping, UH 1:24:59.680 --> 1:25:05.439 help listeners understand why the damns were put in place. 1:25:05.600 --> 1:25:07.040 You know, it's one of these things I think were 1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:12.320 Now there's such a you know, a widely held predominant viewpoint. 1:25:12.400 --> 1:25:16.400 It seems that you know, a widespread acknowledgement that they're 1:25:16.520 --> 1:25:21.800 very problematic. UM. But they were built, Yes, why were 1:25:21.840 --> 1:25:26.200 they built and and what was the conversation about what 1:25:26.280 --> 1:25:28.200 was the debate when they were being built, like like, 1:25:28.280 --> 1:25:33.679 how well did people anticipate the you know, the havoc 1:25:33.720 --> 1:25:37.080 that would be wrought by constructing the dams. Well, you know, 1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:39.519 it's interesting if you go back to the the Ice 1:25:39.520 --> 1:25:41.360 Harbor Dam, which is the first one that you reach 1:25:41.400 --> 1:25:43.400 after you leave the Columbian Head up the Snake River, 1:25:44.200 --> 1:25:48.920 the first of the four that was authorized in the 1:25:49.000 --> 1:25:51.760 Army Corps of Engineers requested funding for it every year 1:25:52.400 --> 1:25:55.760 in their budget request. Congress refused to fund it. And 1:25:55.800 --> 1:25:58.360 if you read the statement of the chairman of the 1:25:58.400 --> 1:26:02.519 Appropriations Committee when he was asked why they didn't put 1:26:02.560 --> 1:26:04.920 funding in for the Ice Harbor Dam, he said because 1:26:05.200 --> 1:26:08.880 building this damn would be the eventual extinction of a species, 1:26:09.360 --> 1:26:12.280 and that's something that they couldn't comprehend. So it was 1:26:12.360 --> 1:26:14.559 no one clear back then or at least suspected that 1:26:14.560 --> 1:26:17.160 that would be would be a problem. But then two 1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:20.400 years later, uh to Democratic sentators, one from Oregon and 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:25.080 one from from Washington, slipped a million dollars into an 1:26:25.080 --> 1:26:29.360 appropriation conference report, and that started iceho Harbor, and that 1:26:29.400 --> 1:26:32.599 started the domino of the other four damns. So it's 1:26:32.600 --> 1:26:34.640 been a it's been a challenge from the start, and 1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:36.800 we've known what the consequences were, but we've always thrown 1:26:36.840 --> 1:26:38.880 up our hands and said, hey, we can replace these 1:26:38.880 --> 1:26:41.360 fish with hatchery fish and stuff. And now we find 1:26:41.360 --> 1:26:43.639 out the hatchery fish aren't the same as well salmon 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:48.240 and returning the salmon uh is something that that is 1:26:48.360 --> 1:26:51.000 important to me. I think it's important to Idaho. And 1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:54.040 when I look at h the impact that the damn staff, 1:26:54.080 --> 1:26:56.880 they were built for power. That was the reason these are. 1:26:57.160 --> 1:27:00.160 There's a not flood controlled dams. These are just uto 1:27:00.200 --> 1:27:02.720 the river dams and they produce power. They also have 1:27:02.800 --> 1:27:07.240 the benefit of being able to take barging from Lewis 1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:10.760 to Idaho all the way down to Portland, mostly into 1:27:10.800 --> 1:27:12.880 the Tri Cities, but then onto Portland through the Columbia 1:27:13.000 --> 1:27:16.200 River dams. UH. Those are two benefits that the dams, 1:27:16.200 --> 1:27:18.559 that the dams have. But when you look at the 1:27:18.560 --> 1:27:21.840 power production, now there are other ways of produced power. 1:27:22.160 --> 1:27:24.200 Someone told me once and I agree with this, that 1:27:24.520 --> 1:27:27.000 you know, everything we do on the Columbia and Lower 1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:29.120 Snake River we can do differently if we choose to 1:27:29.120 --> 1:27:32.240 do it. That's our choice. Salmon don't have an option. 1:27:32.760 --> 1:27:34.680 They actually near river, and right now they don't have 1:27:34.720 --> 1:27:37.000 a river because of the dams. In fact, it's almost 1:27:37.080 --> 1:27:39.799 a misnomer to call it the Lower Snake River because 1:27:39.840 --> 1:27:42.640 the river is really just a pool, a series of 1:27:42.640 --> 1:27:46.559 pools behind these damns, slack water pools, which harm the 1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:50.439 salmon because of the increased water temperature. The velocity of 1:27:50.479 --> 1:27:52.920 the water coming down doesn't flush them down to the river. 1:27:53.000 --> 1:27:55.160 It takes about three times as long for a for 1:27:55.200 --> 1:27:58.000 a smoke to get to the ocean as it used to. 1:27:58.840 --> 1:28:01.120 That puts them in more danger. Are predators and other 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:05.000 other factors that affect them. That's why fish biologists will 1:28:05.000 --> 1:28:07.200 tell you the only way you're gonna restore these salmon 1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:11.599 is to is to remove these dams. The way they 1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:14.720 generally measure the success of a salmon run or the 1:28:14.760 --> 1:28:17.400 health of one, is called the stars the small to 1:28:17.479 --> 1:28:20.600 adult ratio it needs to be It would preferably be 1:28:20.680 --> 1:28:23.960 between four and six. Anything above two and two is 1:28:24.000 --> 1:28:26.479 a sustainable run. And if you look at the salmon 1:28:26.479 --> 1:28:28.840 that come up the Columbia River and passed the first 1:28:28.880 --> 1:28:31.200 three dams and then go into the John Day Drainage, 1:28:31.479 --> 1:28:33.720 there are numbers about three point five. That's a healthy run. 1:28:34.360 --> 1:28:36.240 Once they passed the fourth dam and go into the 1:28:36.240 --> 1:28:39.920 Acama drainage, it's about two point four, which is still 1:28:39.960 --> 1:28:43.760 healthy and sustainable. But once the Idaho salmon go over 1:28:43.800 --> 1:28:47.240 those next four dams, their stars rate is about point 1:28:47.280 --> 1:28:50.120 eight and that's a path to extinction. And that's something 1:28:50.160 --> 1:28:52.120 we have not been able to change over the years 1:28:52.160 --> 1:28:55.840 with everything we've tried. What other industry, Like when you 1:28:55.840 --> 1:28:58.680 mentioned that the dams were put in place, um, primarily 1:28:58.720 --> 1:29:02.680 for electricity, meaning if it wasn't for the energy conversation, 1:29:02.720 --> 1:29:06.200 it probably wouldn't have become a conversation. But then the 1:29:06.280 --> 1:29:08.360 dams get put in place, and then it winds up 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:13.200 having sort of you know, inadvertent or subsequent effects on things. 1:29:13.240 --> 1:29:17.120 Meaning I'm guessing irrigation probably is a thing you mentioned, 1:29:17.160 --> 1:29:21.760 barge traffic. Uh, how many industries you know? I don't 1:29:21.760 --> 1:29:23.519 think it needs to be an exhaustive list, but like, 1:29:23.840 --> 1:29:27.240 what what all industries would need to make an adjustment 1:29:27.400 --> 1:29:30.800 or be have their their concerns addressed in order to 1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:32.760 begin dealing with this problem. And if you if we 1:29:32.760 --> 1:29:35.800 look beyond power, but just other ways in which communities 1:29:35.800 --> 1:29:38.479 have grown up around the water's edge, and I don't 1:29:38.520 --> 1:29:40.160 even really know all the ways in which it could 1:29:40.560 --> 1:29:44.360 impact industry and people if we were to pull this 1:29:44.479 --> 1:29:47.560 feet off. Yeah, there's there are a number of industries 1:29:47.600 --> 1:29:48.880 and we've tried to look at all of them. Like 1:29:48.920 --> 1:29:50.519 I said, that's why we've had the three to five 1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:53.400 meetings that we've had with different interest groups and stakeholders 1:29:53.840 --> 1:29:56.080 about the impact of removing those dams. You know, you 1:29:56.120 --> 1:30:00.960 look at the lower Snake River, they have, uh there's 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:04.479 marinas and other types of recreational outfits that that operate 1:30:04.600 --> 1:30:07.800 in in those waters. The city of Lewiston has a 1:30:07.920 --> 1:30:10.000 port there. The port is about I don't know, it's 1:30:10.000 --> 1:30:13.320 about a one point nine million dollar annual budget and 1:30:13.360 --> 1:30:16.600 employee several people, and so, I mean that's important industry 1:30:16.640 --> 1:30:20.800 in Lewiston, but it's mostly the grain producers in the 1:30:21.040 --> 1:30:25.840 Poluce area around Lewiston that that barge their grain down 1:30:25.840 --> 1:30:28.280 the river. And it is the cheapest way to transport 1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:31.800 transport gain grain. You can do it cheaper than you 1:30:31.840 --> 1:30:34.120 can on trucks or by rail. So you'd have to 1:30:34.160 --> 1:30:37.280 make accommodation for all of these individuals, and what we're 1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:40.439 trying to do is what can loisten be in the future. 1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:43.719 How can we make them hold again? Uh? And we've 1:30:44.360 --> 1:30:46.479 we've thought of some ideas, but mostly it's going to 1:30:46.560 --> 1:30:50.040 be up to them, uh, their future. And and really 1:30:50.080 --> 1:30:52.840 the question I asked people is we need to be 1:30:52.880 --> 1:30:54.759 looking down the road about what we want to Pacific 1:30:54.840 --> 1:30:57.120 Northwest to look like in twenty five or fifty years, 1:30:57.160 --> 1:30:59.680 because the decisions we make today are going to make 1:30:59.680 --> 1:31:02.960 those terminations. Do we care about salmon? Uh? Do we 1:31:03.000 --> 1:31:04.599 care if they come back? Now? I will tell you 1:31:04.640 --> 1:31:06.400 that if you talk to a lot of Washington grain 1:31:06.439 --> 1:31:09.680 farmers and others who are affected by this, by this 1:31:09.960 --> 1:31:12.880 uh these this damn removal because they pump out of 1:31:12.920 --> 1:31:16.160 the Snake River to arrogate fields in Washington and so forth, 1:31:16.479 --> 1:31:18.599 I can understand why I don't really care about Idaho. 1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:22.719 Salmon doesn't affect them. They're salmon are back in healthy numbers. Uh. 1:31:22.760 --> 1:31:25.000 It's in Idaho that's paying the cost. And I've said 1:31:25.000 --> 1:31:27.160 this a number of times. The more I look at this, 1:31:27.200 --> 1:31:28.920 the more I look at the fact that Idaho is 1:31:28.960 --> 1:31:32.599 paying all the costs of these dams in Washington and 1:31:32.720 --> 1:31:35.680 we're not getting much of the benefit. The benefit is 1:31:35.880 --> 1:31:39.040 the lower cost transportation which we can replace and do 1:31:39.160 --> 1:31:40.920 it so that we can actually get it down the 1:31:41.000 --> 1:31:44.040 river or down to the Tri Cities or to Portland 1:31:44.120 --> 1:31:47.479 cheaper than they do on barges today. If we're willing 1:31:47.520 --> 1:31:49.600 to look at a different way of doing it. We 1:31:49.680 --> 1:31:52.000 get about eight percent of the power that's produced to 1:31:52.080 --> 1:31:55.400 those damns comes to Idaho. And that's all. But yet 1:31:55.439 --> 1:31:57.760 we flush four hundred and eight seven thousand acre feet 1:31:57.760 --> 1:31:59.960 of water down the year, every down the river every 1:32:00.120 --> 1:32:03.559 year to er or to flush salmon past these four dams. 1:32:03.560 --> 1:32:06.599 And the one thing that's not doing it's recovering salmon. Uh, 1:32:06.640 --> 1:32:09.400 that's problematic. That's four and eight seven thousand acre feet 1:32:09.400 --> 1:32:12.200 of water that's not available in Idaho to either recharge 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:16.040 our aquifer or additional irrigation or other things that we 1:32:16.160 --> 1:32:18.760 just flushed down the river. How do you account for 1:32:18.800 --> 1:32:21.760 the fact that there's still damns below the dams? You know? 1:32:22.000 --> 1:32:24.920 I mean, I could envision in my mind the best 1:32:24.920 --> 1:32:30.280 case scenario would be that um this endeavors successful to 1:32:30.400 --> 1:32:33.200 ultimately we get the public support we need and we 1:32:33.240 --> 1:32:35.839 get the money we need to begin this very ambitious 1:32:35.880 --> 1:32:39.240 project of dismantling these things and restoring salmon runs like 1:32:39.720 --> 1:32:41.360 I'd love to see it. But when I hear this, 1:32:41.439 --> 1:32:43.360 the first thing that pops in my mind is, well, 1:32:43.400 --> 1:32:45.599 what about the fact that you still got a whole 1:32:45.640 --> 1:32:48.360 bunch of them below there? Unless this sets a template 1:32:48.880 --> 1:32:52.360 or creates a path forward for people to comprehend removing 1:32:52.400 --> 1:32:55.720 more dams, Um, how does it? How can it fix 1:32:55.760 --> 1:32:58.800 anything when you still have the Columbia Right? Yeah, A 1:32:58.800 --> 1:33:01.519 lot of people ask me, isn't this slippery slow to 1:33:01.520 --> 1:33:04.720 remove more dams? What we do in this proposal and 1:33:04.760 --> 1:33:07.280 the way you end the lawsuits and the endless litigation 1:33:07.280 --> 1:33:09.679 that goes on as you relcense all the remaining dams 1:33:09.720 --> 1:33:12.000 for the period of thirty fifty years depending on when 1:33:12.040 --> 1:33:16.040 their license comes due, automatically re licensed them. Because most 1:33:16.080 --> 1:33:19.400 of the lawsuits occur around dams and damn re licensing 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:22.559 and that type of thing you would you would re 1:33:22.640 --> 1:33:25.320 license them. They would be exempt from the Endangered Species Act, 1:33:25.360 --> 1:33:29.120 Clean Water Act, and the environment National Environmental Policy Act UH, 1:33:29.120 --> 1:33:31.680 and that takes away almost all of the lawsuits and 1:33:31.720 --> 1:33:34.560 in fact, most environmental groups that are UH. Some of 1:33:34.600 --> 1:33:36.920 the proponents of the of the lawsuits and have been 1:33:36.920 --> 1:33:39.360 in the past have said Okay, we can live with 1:33:39.400 --> 1:33:40.960 that as long as we get rid of these these 1:33:41.000 --> 1:33:43.120 four dams. But if you look at the numbers, as 1:33:43.160 --> 1:33:45.120 I said earlier, and the smalls coming up the river, 1:33:45.479 --> 1:33:49.120 the first four dams on the Columbia River, yes they 1:33:49.120 --> 1:33:51.479 have an impact on salmon, but they don't endanger them. 1:33:51.960 --> 1:33:54.679 They still have a healthy stars rate once they passed 1:33:54.720 --> 1:33:57.840 those four dams. Eight dams is just too many. That's 1:33:57.840 --> 1:34:00.599 why the numbers fall through the floor on the Snake 1:34:00.680 --> 1:34:06.040 or or the the Idaho salmon runs. Yeah, that's uh. 1:34:06.360 --> 1:34:11.439 It's interesting to me, um, the point you just made 1:34:11.479 --> 1:34:15.040 about trying to in sort of aligning. You mentioned having 1:34:15.040 --> 1:34:18.920 all these different stakeholders and seats at the table. Um, 1:34:18.960 --> 1:34:22.440 it's interesting to me that as a way to alleviate 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:28.680 concerns that the slippery slope concerns, that you're willing to 1:34:29.040 --> 1:34:31.720 strike a deal like that, and not only that, but 1:34:31.840 --> 1:34:36.040 that that you're saying that environmental groups would be comfortable 1:34:36.080 --> 1:34:37.960 with an arrangement like that, they'd be recomfortable with the 1:34:38.000 --> 1:34:42.200 idea of tabling conversations about Columbia dams in order to 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:44.400 make a deal to do this ambitious plan on the 1:34:44.560 --> 1:34:48.679 on the Snake, like that that's that there's widespread comfort. Yeah, 1:34:48.720 --> 1:34:51.160 there is. Most of the environmental community that we've been 1:34:51.240 --> 1:34:52.880 working with, and like I say, the ones that are 1:34:52.920 --> 1:34:55.120 generally behind the lawsuits or have been in the past. 1:34:55.160 --> 1:34:59.360 Both the environmental groups, the state of Oregon, the the 1:34:59.680 --> 1:35:03.360 Indian and tribes have all said yeah, this is okay. Now, 1:35:03.439 --> 1:35:06.200 I will have to tell you there are a number 1:35:06.240 --> 1:35:09.839 of what I call extreme left environmental groups from Washington 1:35:09.880 --> 1:35:11.960 and Oregon who have come out and said they're they're 1:35:11.960 --> 1:35:13.920 opposed to this. They want to return salmon, they want 1:35:13.920 --> 1:35:16.680 to damn's gone, but they're posted this proposal because they 1:35:16.680 --> 1:35:18.920 don't want to give up their right to suit. Well, 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:21.160 that pretty much tells you what their game plan is 1:35:21.200 --> 1:35:24.639 for the future. Uh, it's gonna be lawsuit after lawsuit 1:35:24.760 --> 1:35:27.800 after lawsuit. And I wish we would spend more money 1:35:28.360 --> 1:35:30.599 trying to restore salmon runs and less money in court. 1:35:30.640 --> 1:35:32.600 To tell you the truth, even though I understand that 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:37.080 attorney's kids still have to eat. Personally, have you did 1:35:37.120 --> 1:35:41.519 you grow up as a salmon fisherman an angler? No, 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:45.599 I didn't. I was never a fisherman. My brother, my 1:35:45.680 --> 1:35:47.840 brother was the fisherman. He was a fly fisherman used 1:35:47.880 --> 1:35:50.800 to tie tie flies, you know, and kick over rocks 1:35:50.800 --> 1:35:52.240 to see what they were eating. And then they take 1:35:52.280 --> 1:35:53.960 me out and say, man, there's so many fish here. 1:35:54.040 --> 1:35:56.599 My arm got sore, and I'd go fishing with Eve, 1:35:56.640 --> 1:35:59.280 and of course there's not a bite. So I decided 1:35:59.320 --> 1:36:03.040 that that I couldn't trust him. But I was never 1:36:03.080 --> 1:36:04.960 I was never the fisherman. I love to eat him. 1:36:04.960 --> 1:36:09.840 He loved to catch him. I imagine that, UM, you 1:36:09.960 --> 1:36:16.040 can't get away from partisanship on something like this, meaning 1:36:16.560 --> 1:36:18.719 as I'm sure you know better anybody on the planet, 1:36:19.640 --> 1:36:23.439 some people are gonna go, um, they're Gonnay're gonna look 1:36:23.439 --> 1:36:25.759 at it like it is a particular party in support 1:36:25.800 --> 1:36:29.599 of it. If that's the case, we're into If someone 1:36:29.640 --> 1:36:32.080 else is behind it, we're going to resist it. Do 1:36:32.160 --> 1:36:35.200 you find that when it comes to um an environmental 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:39.960 issue like this, you know, like fish, um that has 1:36:40.000 --> 1:36:43.240 an industry overlay to it, do you find that that 1:36:43.360 --> 1:36:48.320 partisanship gets worse, that it's kind of that it's alleviated. 1:36:49.720 --> 1:36:52.120 What do you encounter when you're working on this, you know, 1:36:52.200 --> 1:36:55.679 I I find that the partisanship with environmental issues isn't 1:36:55.680 --> 1:36:58.679 as strong as it is with some other things, other issues. Now, 1:36:58.920 --> 1:37:01.720 the one challenge in this is that it's going to 1:37:01.800 --> 1:37:03.960 cost about thirty three and a half billion dollars is 1:37:04.040 --> 1:37:06.920 what we estimate to to make the stakeholders hold again, 1:37:07.000 --> 1:37:09.599 to replace the power to do the other things. That's 1:37:09.600 --> 1:37:12.080 the value of the dams. We're the first people to recognize, 1:37:12.080 --> 1:37:14.840 you know, the idea of taking these damns out has 1:37:14.880 --> 1:37:18.000 been has been considered for by other groups and it's 1:37:18.000 --> 1:37:19.920 always just either take the damns out or don't take 1:37:19.920 --> 1:37:22.679 the damns out. And we're the first people to actually 1:37:22.720 --> 1:37:25.400 put a value on those dams and recognize that they 1:37:25.439 --> 1:37:27.840 do have a value and you're gonna have to replace that. 1:37:28.120 --> 1:37:30.639 I think that's what's got so many people that are 1:37:30.720 --> 1:37:34.160 anti dam removal concerned is that we've actually put a 1:37:34.240 --> 1:37:35.960 value on it, and they're saying, Okay, how do we 1:37:36.000 --> 1:37:39.400 fight this. This must be a serious consideration. And I've 1:37:39.439 --> 1:37:44.760 had a lot of people suggest that I would say 1:37:44.760 --> 1:37:47.960 that there are not favorably disposed of what we're the 1:37:48.000 --> 1:37:50.519 concept we put out there, but are coming to the 1:37:50.560 --> 1:37:52.599 realization that you know, we can either plan our own 1:37:52.600 --> 1:37:55.400 future and develop our own future, or it can be 1:37:55.439 --> 1:37:58.320 planned for us UH and it would be better if 1:37:58.360 --> 1:38:01.719 we if we did it our selves. But I find 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:05.720 the partisanship kind of Yeah, Republicans and Democrats have a 1:38:05.760 --> 1:38:09.679 difference of opinion on how best to manage our public 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:11.599 lands and that type of stuff. But when you look 1:38:11.720 --> 1:38:15.160 back at the Boulder White Clouds Wilderness area that I did, 1:38:15.520 --> 1:38:18.320 in the end, it passed without a descending vote, without 1:38:18.320 --> 1:38:20.640 a Republican or a Democrat descending vote in both the 1:38:20.640 --> 1:38:22.960 House and the Senate. When we did the Great American 1:38:22.960 --> 1:38:27.160 Outdoors Act, uh, it passed by with bipartis and support. 1:38:27.600 --> 1:38:29.360 So when we get right down to it, I think 1:38:30.080 --> 1:38:32.479 Republicans and Democrats want the same thing. We have a 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:36.040 different opinion about how to get there sometimes. But but 1:38:36.160 --> 1:38:40.200 I I, uh, I'm not worried about the partisanship. Really, 1:38:41.080 --> 1:38:45.439 do you feel that the proposal that you've worked on 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:47.559 and we'll we'll tell people how to find the details 1:38:47.560 --> 1:38:49.759 of the proposal. Do you feel the proposal you worked 1:38:49.800 --> 1:38:58.080 on um has turned some opinions or have you Do 1:38:58.120 --> 1:39:00.120 you feel that it winds up being is this the 1:39:00.520 --> 1:39:02.640 battle line is pretty much the same still or have 1:39:02.720 --> 1:39:05.800 some people come and said, oh uh, this I can 1:39:05.800 --> 1:39:11.120 get on board with previous previous proposals, not for me. Yeah, 1:39:11.120 --> 1:39:15.200 you know, the response we're getting from the public is 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:18.040 about what we expected when we released it, and it's 1:39:18.040 --> 1:39:20.160 the reason we released it as a concept, not a 1:39:20.160 --> 1:39:22.280 written piece of legislation. When you write a piece of 1:39:22.439 --> 1:39:24.680 when you say i've got a bill here, it's like 1:39:24.760 --> 1:39:26.960 saying I'm ready to go with this. I've done all 1:39:27.040 --> 1:39:30.280 the thought and everything. We released as a concept so 1:39:30.320 --> 1:39:32.519 that people would have time to consider it put have 1:39:32.640 --> 1:39:34.720 their input into it. I'm sure there are things that 1:39:34.760 --> 1:39:38.120 we have not thought about that that others will think 1:39:38.120 --> 1:39:40.320 about for us. And there are questions that need to 1:39:40.320 --> 1:39:43.120 be answered that some people have raised. Uh And that's 1:39:43.120 --> 1:39:45.080 why it's out there as a concept for this public 1:39:45.120 --> 1:39:50.160 debate that that is going on now. Uh So I, 1:39:51.240 --> 1:39:53.880 as I said, I think the reaction is kind of 1:39:53.920 --> 1:39:57.040 about what we expected. We knew that there would be 1:39:57.800 --> 1:40:00.479 a number of people that it would and and insociations 1:40:00.560 --> 1:40:02.519 and organizations that would say, hell no, we're never going 1:40:02.560 --> 1:40:08.240 to really never gonna remove those damps. I understand that 1:40:08.520 --> 1:40:11.280 I have sympathy with that position years ago, that's the 1:40:11.320 --> 1:40:14.920 position I was in. But the reality, you know, twenty 1:40:14.960 --> 1:40:16.519 five years ago, if you read some of the articles. 1:40:16.520 --> 1:40:19.040 When I was Speaker of the House in Idaho, I said, 1:40:19.680 --> 1:40:21.920 damn removal is not an option. I said, we ought 1:40:21.960 --> 1:40:24.320 to try everything else to restore salmon before we ever 1:40:24.360 --> 1:40:27.080 consider that. Well, in the twenty five years since then, 1:40:27.120 --> 1:40:29.240 we've tried everything else. And if somebody has an idea 1:40:29.280 --> 1:40:31.840 of how you can restore salmon without moving those damps, 1:40:32.000 --> 1:40:34.280 I'd love to hear it. But the problem is is 1:40:34.360 --> 1:40:37.439 we've tried everything so far. Unless I said, every fish 1:40:37.439 --> 1:40:39.720 biologist that I've talked to says you're gonna have to 1:40:39.760 --> 1:40:42.720 remove those damps if you want to restore Idaho salmon runs. 1:40:42.760 --> 1:40:45.720 So we knew there would be that reaction from the 1:40:45.760 --> 1:40:48.519 hell no never sort of group. And I'm not critical 1:40:48.560 --> 1:40:51.720 of them. I just I understand where they're coming from. Uh, 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:54.280 But there are a lot of people who are saying 1:40:54.280 --> 1:40:57.880 to me, this is interesting. Maybe we ought to step back, 1:40:57.960 --> 1:41:01.519 put the pitchforks down and talk about this and consider 1:41:02.320 --> 1:41:05.120 the options here. Because as I said, I just talked 1:41:05.160 --> 1:41:07.160 to a group the other day who I who I 1:41:07.240 --> 1:41:10.960 thought would have been uh, pretty firmly against it, and 1:41:10.960 --> 1:41:14.559 they still maybe uh, but they're starting to say, you know, 1:41:14.640 --> 1:41:16.439 maybe we got to plan on our own future instead 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:18.360 of have someone else planned for it. And when I 1:41:18.439 --> 1:41:21.600 say that, people say I'm trying to threaten people that 1:41:21.920 --> 1:41:24.800 judge can remove these dams, and that's not true. Judge 1:41:24.800 --> 1:41:27.400 cannot remove these dams. Only Congress can do that. But 1:41:27.479 --> 1:41:30.880 a judge can make it so damned expensive to keep 1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:33.320 these dams that you just have no option but to 1:41:33.360 --> 1:41:36.879 remove them. They could order draw downs or additional spills 1:41:36.920 --> 1:41:39.360 and that kind of stuff. Two years ago, a judge 1:41:39.479 --> 1:41:42.719 ordered forty acre feet of additional water to be spilled 1:41:42.720 --> 1:41:47.120 over the dams to help salmon recover. Didn't help recover salmon, 1:41:47.160 --> 1:41:49.160 but it did cost forty million dollars from b p 1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:52.000 A to to do that. Of lost power generation, that 1:41:52.040 --> 1:41:56.240 means the rate payers ended up paying that forty million dollars. So, 1:41:57.000 --> 1:42:00.000 as I said, that's another aspect of this whole proposed 1:42:00.120 --> 1:42:02.680 It's not just salmon and dance. It's also the b 1:42:02.840 --> 1:42:04.800 p A trying to keep power rates slow in the 1:42:04.840 --> 1:42:08.719 Pacific Northwest that have been growing over the years. And uh, 1:42:08.760 --> 1:42:11.320 and as I said, Bonneville power of power is no 1:42:11.400 --> 1:42:13.719 longer the low cost power in the in the Pacific 1:42:13.760 --> 1:42:16.240 Northwest anymore. So we've got to do something to make 1:42:16.280 --> 1:42:19.439 them u competitive in the future. Let's talk for a 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:25.080 minute about the hell no never perspective. Um, if this 1:42:25.360 --> 1:42:28.040 will demonstrate my bias a little bit, but if I 1:42:28.160 --> 1:42:31.519 view someone saying, Um, if I viewed someone like like yourself, 1:42:31.560 --> 1:42:34.200 you're you know, you're not a salmon fisherman, okay, but 1:42:34.320 --> 1:42:38.960 you're you're recognizing the importance of salmon as a as 1:42:39.040 --> 1:42:45.240 a wild creature that we're blessed to have on the landscape. Right. 1:42:45.320 --> 1:42:48.960 It belongs to a system that's greater than any individual, 1:42:49.360 --> 1:42:51.719 and it has integrity. We want to uphold the integrity. 1:42:51.720 --> 1:42:54.519 Like I view that as you know that that to 1:42:54.600 --> 1:42:59.759 me strikes me as um, you know, largely altruistic viewpoint, 1:42:59.840 --> 1:43:02.719 Like you're looking to future generations. If you talk about 1:43:02.720 --> 1:43:07.120 the hell no never audience, is there an argument among 1:43:07.280 --> 1:43:10.960 them that goes beyond anything that might be self serving? 1:43:12.040 --> 1:43:15.840 You know, I think there's concern. And as I said 1:43:15.880 --> 1:43:17.960 in our video when we released it, I said, you know, 1:43:19.200 --> 1:43:21.479 I can't promise you I'm not certain that removing these 1:43:21.520 --> 1:43:24.639 dams will bring back salmon. It's a complex biological system. 1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:27.040 You know, when I was a dentist in the real world, 1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:30.680 some coming to my office with a serious infection, and 1:43:30.720 --> 1:43:33.599 I could prescribe some antibiotics for him. I couldn't promise 1:43:33.680 --> 1:43:36.679 them it at work. It would work nine nine percent 1:43:36.680 --> 1:43:39.320 of the time. You can't promise somebody it's gonna work 1:43:39.320 --> 1:43:42.880 because it's a biological system and people react differently. The 1:43:42.920 --> 1:43:45.400 same thing is true with salmon. But it's the best 1:43:45.479 --> 1:43:48.200 chance we've got of recovering Sam and I think the 1:43:48.240 --> 1:43:52.400 only chance we've got of recovering these four for salmon runs. 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:56.400 But I always get a kick out of people who 1:43:56.439 --> 1:43:58.559 say to me, you know, I don't think we should 1:43:58.560 --> 1:44:02.160 remove these dams. Uh, it's not guaranteed that salmon would 1:44:02.200 --> 1:44:04.160 come back. And I want salmon back as much as 1:44:04.160 --> 1:44:06.559 anybody else does. What they really mean is, I want 1:44:06.560 --> 1:44:08.240 salmon to come back, but I don't want to have 1:44:08.280 --> 1:44:12.080 to change anything that we're currently doing. Uh, you can't 1:44:12.120 --> 1:44:14.960 have those two things. I don't think you're gonna get 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:19.800 salmon back. And I think in in what the fish 1:44:19.800 --> 1:44:23.080 biologists tell me is within probably twenty years, that's five 1:44:23.160 --> 1:44:26.719 like life cycles or four life cycles of salmon. Uh, 1:44:26.760 --> 1:44:30.840 that that these fish will be extinct. And you mentioned 1:44:30.920 --> 1:44:34.479 the reason for it, as I said, you know, some 1:44:34.520 --> 1:44:35.880 people want them come back because they want to be 1:44:35.880 --> 1:44:38.920 able to fish and etcetera, etcetera. I want them back 1:44:38.960 --> 1:44:42.320 because there are an essential part of our of our economy, 1:44:42.680 --> 1:44:46.280 and essentral part of nature. Uh. There are over three 1:44:46.360 --> 1:44:51.160 hundred of three other species of animals and plants that 1:44:51.200 --> 1:44:53.800 depend on the nutrition that salmon bring back up from 1:44:53.840 --> 1:44:56.720 the ocean. Uh. There's been studies done that if you 1:44:56.760 --> 1:45:02.479 look at a stream where salmon uh generally populate versus 1:45:02.520 --> 1:45:05.160 one where there's no salmon in it, trees actually go 1:45:05.320 --> 1:45:08.760 three times faster in the in the drainage that has 1:45:08.840 --> 1:45:11.559 the salmon, just because of the nutrients that they bring 1:45:11.600 --> 1:45:15.880 back something of the hair of a of a bear 1:45:16.400 --> 1:45:20.639 in these regions have salmon d n A. And so 1:45:21.000 --> 1:45:24.680 they're an important iconic species for the Pacific Northwest. I 1:45:24.760 --> 1:45:26.800 don't want to be the generation that said, yeah, we 1:45:26.840 --> 1:45:28.519 saw him going away and we didn't do anything to 1:45:28.520 --> 1:45:32.719 try and stop it. You mentioned only Congress can remove 1:45:32.800 --> 1:45:36.600 the dams. Uh, why is that? Like, what what is 1:45:36.640 --> 1:45:38.360 the what is this sort of like the legal the 1:45:38.439 --> 1:45:41.639 legal framework that that makes that true. Well, there they 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:45.000 are federal dams that were put in with federal legislation. 1:45:45.080 --> 1:45:48.360 So to take federal legislation to h to remove them. 1:45:48.439 --> 1:45:51.759 That's my understanding of the and I think that's probably true. 1:45:52.479 --> 1:45:55.600 But like I said, a judge can can make it 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:57.599 so damned to expensive to keep him. He could order 1:45:57.720 --> 1:46:00.280 draw downs where you would actually draw the as of 1:46:00.280 --> 1:46:02.840 oars down to almost zero, which means there wouldn't be 1:46:02.880 --> 1:46:05.800 any barging or anything else like that. Or he could 1:46:06.160 --> 1:46:09.680 order additional spills and guess where that water ultimately comes from. 1:46:09.720 --> 1:46:12.479 It comes from Idaho because all the water in the 1:46:12.520 --> 1:46:14.960 Snake River drains out of the Idaho drainages, and so 1:46:15.600 --> 1:46:20.439 uh and and Idaho. These the habitat that we're talking 1:46:20.439 --> 1:46:23.600 about in Ido and Central Ido is the high altitude 1:46:25.280 --> 1:46:29.320 habitat and probably the best and cleanest water and coldest 1:46:29.360 --> 1:46:32.519 water UH in the in the entire Pacific Northwest for 1:46:32.560 --> 1:46:36.040 salmon habitats. So UH it is vital that we restore 1:46:36.360 --> 1:46:42.160 uh store these uh salm into this habitat, and especially 1:46:42.240 --> 1:46:45.839 in the age of warming rivers because of global global 1:46:45.840 --> 1:46:49.080 warming and other types of things. UH, it's important that 1:46:49.120 --> 1:46:53.559 we maintain this cold, high altitude water habitat that we 1:46:53.600 --> 1:46:57.519 have an Idaho congressman, we've UH we we've talked a 1:46:57.520 --> 1:47:01.759 little bit about um the argument for removing the dams. 1:47:02.080 --> 1:47:04.800 We've talked about some of the resistance of doing it 1:47:04.840 --> 1:47:08.439 and what it might take to ease that resistance. What 1:47:08.560 --> 1:47:14.840 about just the physical process, Like let's let's say one 1:47:15.640 --> 1:47:20.320 of Americans and one of the Congress, the US Congress 1:47:20.360 --> 1:47:24.680 and Senate all said, yes, let's go. Uh what are 1:47:24.720 --> 1:47:27.439 we what are we looking at? I mean, are we 1:47:27.479 --> 1:47:32.479 talking about decades of work? ZUI is not like a 1:47:32.560 --> 1:47:34.960 B fifty two bomber just comes over and it's done right. 1:47:35.240 --> 1:47:37.800 There's a there's a thing that needs to happen here. Yeah, 1:47:37.880 --> 1:47:40.680 it's much more complicated. And our proposal to damns don't 1:47:40.720 --> 1:47:45.240 actually come out until because that's nine nine years from now. 1:47:45.280 --> 1:47:48.840 You have to have the power replacement in place, you 1:47:48.880 --> 1:47:51.840 have to have the alternative transportation in place. But then 1:47:51.880 --> 1:47:54.400 you have to do dredging behind these dams. That's gonna 1:47:54.439 --> 1:47:57.240 cost you a billion or so dollars to remove the 1:47:57.280 --> 1:48:00.200 sediment that has accumulated behind these dams, because you don't 1:48:00.200 --> 1:48:02.200 want them to want it to just wash down the river. 1:48:02.600 --> 1:48:04.880 So you've got to remove the sediment. And then we 1:48:04.920 --> 1:48:09.320 don't physically remove the cement. Part of the of the damn. 1:48:09.600 --> 1:48:11.759 What you do is you remove the earthen berms around 1:48:11.760 --> 1:48:15.439 the edge to create the natural river flow that existed before. 1:48:16.120 --> 1:48:21.639 Oh until that'll it stays there. Yeah, yeah, the cement 1:48:21.720 --> 1:48:26.080 part stays there. It's the it's the earthen berms that 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:29.360 that attached on the sides that you'd remove, and then 1:48:29.360 --> 1:48:32.880 the river could flow around that. And uh. You know, 1:48:33.200 --> 1:48:36.640 and I've told people listening thirty years of salm and 1:48:36.680 --> 1:48:39.080 aren't back. This hasn't worked. You could actually replace the 1:48:39.120 --> 1:48:43.200 earthen berms if you need to. Uh. We've just got 1:48:43.200 --> 1:48:48.160 to start start thinking outside of the traditional uh ideas 1:48:48.200 --> 1:48:50.320 that we've had in the past that haven't worked, and say, 1:48:50.400 --> 1:48:53.000 let's let's look down the road. Let's see how we 1:48:53.040 --> 1:48:56.040 can make this work. Uh, and let's try something different. 1:48:56.960 --> 1:48:58.639 I don't know. I know you can't be a slave 1:48:58.760 --> 1:49:04.440 to polling, but among your constituents, what percentage of your constituents? 1:49:04.840 --> 1:49:08.439 I think that something's got to happen. Uh. You know, 1:49:08.520 --> 1:49:11.000 we haven't done any polling on this, so I can't 1:49:11.160 --> 1:49:15.920 give you an exact answer. The only answer I would 1:49:15.960 --> 1:49:18.439 have is from the contact I've had with people. As 1:49:18.439 --> 1:49:21.320 I said, a lot of people are saying, interesting, we 1:49:21.320 --> 1:49:24.040 ought to consider this. Other people are saying, I admire 1:49:24.080 --> 1:49:26.080 you for taking on the challenge, and it's a discussion. 1:49:26.120 --> 1:49:27.559 It's got to be had. But I'm not sure I'm 1:49:27.600 --> 1:49:30.080 in favor of Damn removal, and other people are just 1:49:30.120 --> 1:49:34.479 saying hell no. So it's a slow process of giving 1:49:34.560 --> 1:49:38.360 people a chance to consider this and and think about 1:49:38.439 --> 1:49:41.160 the options and what and what we might be able 1:49:41.200 --> 1:49:43.439 to do and if we want to plan our own future. 1:49:43.600 --> 1:49:47.080 And I think over time over the next few months, 1:49:47.760 --> 1:49:49.479 if people have a chance to really sit down and 1:49:49.520 --> 1:49:52.639 talk to talk about it, UH, you'll see more people 1:49:52.640 --> 1:49:55.920 coming around with the possibilities. And I've I've been doing 1:49:55.960 --> 1:49:59.760 meetings all over my district in Idaho. We will start 1:49:59.760 --> 1:50:03.280 doing some more around the Pacific Northwest and North Idaho 1:50:03.360 --> 1:50:08.640 and Washington and Oregon. Also from the agricultural perspective, Congressman, 1:50:09.840 --> 1:50:14.439 is the lack of embrace for Damn removal based on 1:50:15.080 --> 1:50:17.880 the shipping primarily the use of the of the barge 1:50:17.920 --> 1:50:23.000 system for moving grain or is it due to uh, 1:50:23.439 --> 1:50:31.320 probably a realistic increase in cost of pumping water out 1:50:31.320 --> 1:50:37.000 of the snake for agricultural purposes. It comes in several aspects. 1:50:37.800 --> 1:50:42.960 I think the largest opposition is from the grain grower perspective, 1:50:42.960 --> 1:50:46.320 because they ship nine million bushels of grain down the 1:50:46.439 --> 1:50:48.439 river every year, and they're they're afraid that if you 1:50:48.479 --> 1:50:51.000 added ten or fifteen cents to a to a bushel 1:50:51.320 --> 1:50:53.600 in transportation costs that put them out of business. It 1:50:53.680 --> 1:50:56.000 might well, I think we can do it, and they 1:50:56.040 --> 1:50:58.760 can actually ship per farmer at a cheaper cost than 1:50:58.800 --> 1:51:01.800 doing it by barging. If we give them the resources 1:51:01.840 --> 1:51:04.080 to develop this plan. Now we've come up with an idea. 1:51:04.080 --> 1:51:06.320 It might not be the right idea, but they're the 1:51:06.360 --> 1:51:08.720 experts in trying to get their grain to the Tri 1:51:08.880 --> 1:51:12.160 Cities in New Portland, so we're given the resources, they'll 1:51:12.160 --> 1:51:14.800 come up with a plan. I've been interested though, in 1:51:14.840 --> 1:51:19.080 the grain farmers in southern Idaho in my district, UH 1:51:19.120 --> 1:51:22.840 that actually don't use the barge system. They either truck 1:51:22.840 --> 1:51:24.880 it to the Tri Cities or Salt Lake right now, 1:51:25.520 --> 1:51:29.840 and UH, the only thing this plan would do for 1:51:29.960 --> 1:51:33.280 them is make more water available for southern Idaho. When 1:51:33.280 --> 1:51:36.280 we stopped flushing fo seven thousand acre feet of water 1:51:36.320 --> 1:51:39.160 down the river, We've got some real water quality issues 1:51:39.200 --> 1:51:40.920 in the Snake River in the mid snake up by 1:51:40.960 --> 1:51:44.479 twin falls and so forth, and uh, and this would 1:51:44.520 --> 1:51:50.640 help improve that water quality and quantity by by you know, 1:51:50.640 --> 1:51:53.640 stopping the flushing. And I've told these people listen, that 1:51:53.720 --> 1:51:55.559 flush is going to go away one way or another. 1:51:55.840 --> 1:51:58.040 It's gonna go away because salmon go extinct and it's 1:51:58.080 --> 1:52:01.559 no longer necessary to flush sam water for salmon. Or 1:52:01.640 --> 1:52:03.760 it's gonna go away because the dams aren't there, so 1:52:03.800 --> 1:52:07.600 you don't need to flush water to uh to uh 1:52:07.680 --> 1:52:12.080 flush Smoltz over the dams. So uh, it's it's a 1:52:12.120 --> 1:52:14.040 matter of looking down there. And then I think there 1:52:14.160 --> 1:52:19.920 is just a natural sort of resistance to say, how 1:52:19.960 --> 1:52:22.920 stupid is this to take out this infrastructure that we've 1:52:23.280 --> 1:52:25.240 that we built over the years and stuff, you know, 1:52:25.320 --> 1:52:28.640 and why would you want to do that? And I 1:52:28.760 --> 1:52:30.920 understand that because that's as I said, you know, a 1:52:31.000 --> 1:52:32.760 number of years ago, I probably would have been in 1:52:32.800 --> 1:52:36.120 that same camp. But you've got to look down the future, 1:52:36.360 --> 1:52:40.080 and we don't do this for us. We do this 1:52:40.479 --> 1:52:44.040 for future generations. Both those people that care about the 1:52:44.120 --> 1:52:47.720 environment and salmon and also agricultural producers try to end 1:52:47.720 --> 1:52:50.960 these lawsuits that they're facing every single day. And that 1:52:51.120 --> 1:52:53.960 power companies are facing every single day and try to 1:52:54.040 --> 1:52:57.360 end the spiraling costs of the power that they have 1:52:58.200 --> 1:53:00.600 uh in UH if you if you talk to the 1:53:00.640 --> 1:53:05.600 Washington area growers, they pump water out of these reservoirs 1:53:05.640 --> 1:53:10.000 behind these dams. Uh and so consequently restoring a natural 1:53:10.120 --> 1:53:13.679 river means that it would they would have to to 1:53:13.760 --> 1:53:17.800 alter their their irrigation uh pumps and how they draw 1:53:17.920 --> 1:53:20.479 water out and probably deepen their wells and a few things. 1:53:20.800 --> 1:53:22.800 We've put some money into this proposal for them to 1:53:22.840 --> 1:53:24.880 help do it. They said it probably takes six hundred 1:53:24.920 --> 1:53:27.519 and fifty million dollars. We've put seven and fifty million 1:53:27.520 --> 1:53:31.200 dollars into the proposal. So we're trying to address all 1:53:31.240 --> 1:53:35.240 these concerns that people have. And but but believe me, 1:53:35.280 --> 1:53:39.479 I understand the concerns, Congressman. I think that as this 1:53:39.600 --> 1:53:41.599 rolled out, you know, it had a price bat tag 1:53:41.640 --> 1:53:44.160 of thirty three point five million, and I think there 1:53:44.240 --> 1:53:48.479 is a little bit of a sticker shock. But yeah, 1:53:48.520 --> 1:53:52.360 with the billion, yeah billion, and so as it is 1:53:52.439 --> 1:53:55.200 rolled out, living on the police as I do, UM, 1:53:55.240 --> 1:53:58.200 I've seen definitely both sides of it. People that support 1:53:58.520 --> 1:54:03.120 support it for various reasons, Um, But I've been very 1:54:03.200 --> 1:54:07.040 interested in the fact that the proposal isn't just about salmon, 1:54:07.320 --> 1:54:10.800 it isn't just about conservation. You took this step to 1:54:10.960 --> 1:54:15.840 include every industry in almost every community into consideration, and 1:54:15.880 --> 1:54:19.680 I think that's a pretty striking aspect of the proposal, 1:54:19.960 --> 1:54:22.360 and and so kudos to you for that. You know, 1:54:22.439 --> 1:54:28.600 having those three meetings, UM, do you get the sense that, UM, 1:54:28.760 --> 1:54:31.840 that with those three meetings that a lot of the 1:54:32.000 --> 1:54:35.480 uh if you will, the leaks and the dam were 1:54:35.520 --> 1:54:38.040 plugged and and these are small hurdles that you have 1:54:38.080 --> 1:54:41.800 to jump. Now with the additional five bringing your total 1:54:41.840 --> 1:54:44.880 up to five. I mean, you think we're getting there 1:54:44.920 --> 1:54:48.680 as far as buy in in the proposal as broad 1:54:48.720 --> 1:54:52.720 as it is. Well, I I appreciate comments, And like 1:54:52.800 --> 1:54:55.640 I said, we tried to take into consideration all the 1:54:55.680 --> 1:54:57.360 impacts that we could think of, and that's why we 1:54:57.400 --> 1:54:59.400 talked to so many stakeholders because there were things that 1:54:59.440 --> 1:55:02.120 we probably wouldn't have thought of had we not talked 1:55:02.120 --> 1:55:05.880 to a lot of these different individuals and stuff. And 1:55:05.960 --> 1:55:10.240 so I wouldn't say that that we plugged all the leaks, 1:55:10.280 --> 1:55:13.000 for sure. There's still some out there that that we 1:55:13.040 --> 1:55:14.960 need to talk to. But I'd say the conversation is 1:55:15.000 --> 1:55:19.560 going well. I've actually talked to grain producers in the police, 1:55:19.720 --> 1:55:23.520 actual farmers, uh and uh they said, well, you know, 1:55:23.640 --> 1:55:25.680 this is kind of an interesting idea, and yeah, if 1:55:25.720 --> 1:55:28.040 we could get grain down the river, do we really 1:55:28.080 --> 1:55:30.800 need to dance and stuff. But as an association, they're 1:55:30.800 --> 1:55:34.040 opposed to it. And the Washington grain Growers, the Idaho 1:55:34.080 --> 1:55:36.920 grain growers, the Oregon grain growers all stick together and 1:55:36.960 --> 1:55:40.040 support one another, so uh, it will be it will 1:55:40.080 --> 1:55:42.080 be hard to bring them on board. What I'm trying 1:55:42.080 --> 1:55:46.080 to do is allevie some of their fears that were 1:55:46.880 --> 1:55:49.640 you know, I've got a history that I've built up 1:55:49.680 --> 1:55:52.840 over the years of being the leading supporter of agriculture 1:55:53.520 --> 1:55:56.280 in in Congress, one of the leading supporters of agriculture 1:55:56.280 --> 1:56:00.560 and Congress, whether it was making sure that they had 1:56:00.600 --> 1:56:03.960 the resources to do what was necessary. The cattleman, we 1:56:04.080 --> 1:56:06.800 delisted wolves and a few things like that for for 1:56:07.120 --> 1:56:10.520 the cattleman and sheep industry, kept the do Boys sheep 1:56:10.560 --> 1:56:13.480 station open. Made sure that white potatoes and you know, 1:56:13.560 --> 1:56:16.280 being from Idaho, potatoes are important. We're put back on 1:56:16.320 --> 1:56:19.360 the wig program and in school lunch program and things 1:56:19.400 --> 1:56:21.920 like that, and making sure they have the resources for 1:56:22.000 --> 1:56:25.480 their their research and so forth in the wheat industry 1:56:25.480 --> 1:56:27.840 and so forth. I've got lots of awards from the 1:56:27.840 --> 1:56:31.560 agricultural industry. And if I thought for a second that 1:56:31.640 --> 1:56:33.840 this would harm agriculture in the long run, I'd drop 1:56:33.880 --> 1:56:36.600 it in a heartbeat. This will not harm app culture, 1:56:36.600 --> 1:56:38.280 and I think it will place them in a better 1:56:38.320 --> 1:56:41.120 position in the future. But that takes time to come 1:56:41.160 --> 1:56:43.680 around to UH, and I understand that, and that's why 1:56:44.160 --> 1:56:46.320 I haven't gone out and ask anybody to jump on 1:56:46.360 --> 1:56:49.160 board and support this. I just said, listen, let's all 1:56:49.200 --> 1:56:52.680 put down the pitchforks, and let's have this discussion of 1:56:52.840 --> 1:56:55.480 what we want the Pacific Northwest to look like in 1:56:55.960 --> 1:57:00.280 forty or fifty years. Congressman, would you like to directly 1:57:00.440 --> 1:57:06.040 address the idea that the suspension of like you mentioned 1:57:06.080 --> 1:57:09.960 the Clean Water Act d s a M on the 1:57:10.080 --> 1:57:16.600 Lower Columbia Dams would also allow the building of of 1:57:17.960 --> 1:57:25.040 new infrastructure that would like go against UH the idea 1:57:25.400 --> 1:57:31.240 of modernizing like clean or green energy. UM. A lot 1:57:31.240 --> 1:57:33.160 of people see this as like, oh my god, we're 1:57:33.160 --> 1:57:38.640 gonna suspend these tools that we use to UH. Fight 1:57:39.560 --> 1:57:44.720 bad eken or environmental policy um as like a scapegoat 1:57:44.760 --> 1:57:47.880 type of tool. A trade off. It is a trade 1:57:47.880 --> 1:57:50.840 off to some degree. But the reality is all of 1:57:50.880 --> 1:57:54.920 the lawsuits that occur occur virtually all of them occur 1:57:55.000 --> 1:57:57.160 around the Clean Water Acting in the Nanger Spaces Act. 1:57:57.200 --> 1:57:59.280 Every time a dam comes up to read license. I'll 1:57:59.280 --> 1:58:03.560 give you an example, I'd hop Powers Health Health Canyon Complex. 1:58:04.080 --> 1:58:07.280 They've been trying to re license those damn since I 1:58:07.320 --> 1:58:09.440 was a Speaker of the House in Idaho. That was 1:58:09.480 --> 1:58:12.720 twenty five years ago, and they've been trying to relycense. 1:58:12.800 --> 1:58:15.360 They've spent as much money or in fact, they spent 1:58:15.440 --> 1:58:18.880 three times as much money re licensing those dams as 1:58:18.960 --> 1:58:21.920 it did to build the dams, and they still haven't 1:58:21.920 --> 1:58:24.880 got licenses for him yet. That's what's happening with all 1:58:24.920 --> 1:58:27.040 of the dams in the Pacific Northwest. And what we've 1:58:27.080 --> 1:58:30.320 created is a cottage industry with the age of funds 1:58:30.320 --> 1:58:33.120 that's equal access to justice funds that are paid for 1:58:33.240 --> 1:58:37.360 by Congress. And what happens is a firm can come up, 1:58:37.440 --> 1:58:41.240 an environmental group or whatever can come up, file a lawsuit, 1:58:41.360 --> 1:58:43.160 and if you win, in partner and hold your lot, 1:58:43.280 --> 1:58:45.640 your fees can be paid for, and you actually make 1:58:45.640 --> 1:58:48.360 money on these things. And it is a cottage industry 1:58:48.400 --> 1:58:50.840 that's going on. And so I'm I'm not too happy 1:58:50.880 --> 1:58:57.720 about that, but I think that suspending the the Endangered 1:58:57.720 --> 1:59:02.280 Species Act and the and the UH Clean Water Act 1:59:02.400 --> 1:59:07.440 and the nip A process is vitally important to ending 1:59:07.480 --> 1:59:09.640 these lawsuits. And it doesn't mean you can go out 1:59:09.720 --> 1:59:12.320 and do additional things. It just means these damps are 1:59:12.320 --> 1:59:16.760 re licensed operators they currently as they currently operate and stuff. Uh, 1:59:16.840 --> 1:59:18.200 this is a little bit of a looking into a 1:59:18.200 --> 1:59:22.120 crystal ball type of question here. Okay, I I have 1:59:22.160 --> 1:59:25.720 a lot of respect and admiration for the way you're 1:59:25.840 --> 1:59:29.560 you're framing it up, that that you're not starting with legislation, 1:59:29.640 --> 1:59:32.800 You're starting with a proposal. You're bringing it to people, 1:59:33.240 --> 1:59:36.440 You're inviting comments, you're inviting critiques, You're trying to initiate 1:59:36.440 --> 1:59:41.080 a discussion. Um, do you feel that in the end, 1:59:42.120 --> 1:59:45.440 in terms of your involvement here, that in the end 1:59:45.920 --> 1:59:49.880 that's your goal or do you think that this specific 1:59:50.000 --> 1:59:56.520 proposal could actually be but you know, a blueprint for 1:59:56.600 --> 1:59:58.640 action that we take or is it to you is 1:59:58.640 --> 2:00:03.120 it enough just to start the conversation, trusting that in 2:00:03.320 --> 2:00:07.720 ten twenty thirty years the conversation advances enough. Or do 2:00:07.720 --> 2:00:09.840 you think we could be like, you know, at a 2:00:09.920 --> 2:00:11.920 moment right like, at a moment in time where we're 2:00:11.920 --> 2:00:15.760 gonna go Uh, that's a good question. I think that 2:00:15.840 --> 2:00:21.000 this is a blueprint which could start the process of 2:00:22.040 --> 2:00:26.760 recovering ido salmon, removing dams, and changing the economy and 2:00:26.800 --> 2:00:30.840 the transitioning of the Pacific Northwest for the future. Whether 2:00:30.920 --> 2:00:34.160 it would be this specific proposal or not, I don't know, 2:00:34.240 --> 2:00:36.240 but I think this could be the blueprint for it. 2:00:36.240 --> 2:00:39.280 We're at a unique time in history. We don't have 2:00:39.400 --> 2:00:42.040 that long to make a decision on how we're going 2:00:42.080 --> 2:00:44.680 to recover salmon and whether we're gonna do this. And 2:00:44.880 --> 2:00:47.960 the Pacific Northwest Delegation is actually in a pretty powerful 2:00:48.040 --> 2:00:51.120 position when you consider Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee 2:00:51.200 --> 2:00:54.800 is Ron Wyden from from Oregon. Patty Murray and from 2:00:54.800 --> 2:00:58.280 Washington is in leadership. Mike Crepo from Idaho is the 2:00:58.360 --> 2:01:02.520 ranking member on the on the Senate Finance Committee. We've 2:01:02.560 --> 2:01:07.120 got important people Kathy and Morris Rodgers from Washington, who 2:01:07.160 --> 2:01:10.560 is not supportive of Damn removal, but is the chairs 2:01:10.640 --> 2:01:13.040 the ranking member on the Energy and Commerce Committee in 2:01:13.080 --> 2:01:15.280 the House. I'm one of the senior members on the 2:01:15.320 --> 2:01:18.840 Appropriations Committee. So when you look at how the delegation 2:01:19.560 --> 2:01:24.960 is and and uh the chairman of the Pete de 2:01:25.040 --> 2:01:29.600 Fazio as chairman of the Infrastructure Transportation Committee in the House, 2:01:29.640 --> 2:01:34.040 so we're in a pretty powerful position. It's also helpful, 2:01:34.600 --> 2:01:38.280 frankly that the Biden administration is looking at an infrastructure package, 2:01:38.320 --> 2:01:41.000 because I'd like to get the financing for this in 2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:44.560 place before we started doing the legislation. You've heard too 2:01:44.560 --> 2:01:48.600 many times where Congress passes legislation and promises financing for 2:01:48.680 --> 2:01:52.120 things and then that never happens. Uh. I would like 2:01:52.240 --> 2:01:56.360 to put the financing UH in place if we could 2:01:56.400 --> 2:01:59.160 do it through this infrastructure package that the Biden administration 2:01:59.640 --> 2:02:02.120 is looking at and put it in a trust fund 2:02:02.640 --> 2:02:07.040 until we had the legislation pass that that we could 2:02:07.040 --> 2:02:10.520 do this. So it's a it is a long process, 2:02:10.520 --> 2:02:12.400 it's a cumbersome process, and I will tell you right 2:02:12.440 --> 2:02:14.880 in the legislation is going to be, for lack of 2:02:14.880 --> 2:02:17.880 a better word, of nightmare because it involves so many 2:02:17.880 --> 2:02:23.080 different aspects of of the economy. And the environment of 2:02:23.120 --> 2:02:27.440 the Pacific Northwest. So but I think, and I and 2:02:27.480 --> 2:02:30.960 I've told people, I honestly believe that in years those 2:02:31.000 --> 2:02:33.320 damps are going to be gone. Whether it's because of 2:02:33.360 --> 2:02:36.240 this or for some other reason, I think those damns 2:02:36.280 --> 2:02:37.960 will be gone. The question is will it be done 2:02:37.960 --> 2:02:40.800 in time to say the salmon or not? Uh, I 2:02:40.800 --> 2:02:43.000 know you've got stuff you gotta go do. I appreciate 2:02:43.080 --> 2:02:46.960 your time. Uh, anything you'd like to add in? Um 2:02:47.000 --> 2:02:49.120 at the end here that that I didn't ask you, 2:02:49.160 --> 2:02:51.760 but you're you're dying to say, I've probably told you 2:02:51.800 --> 2:02:57.480 more than I know. Well, again, I appreciate taking the time. UM, 2:02:57.520 --> 2:02:59.800 I'm sure people love to hear it. It's a you know, 2:03:00.240 --> 2:03:03.960 aspects of this debate I've been exposed to for my 2:03:04.120 --> 2:03:08.200 entire life. Um, it's exciting to see getting the attention 2:03:08.480 --> 2:03:12.200 that it's getting now. Best of luck. I appreciate the 2:03:12.240 --> 2:03:15.160 efforts that you're putting in to try to hear people 2:03:15.160 --> 2:03:16.960 out on this and in a in a way that 2:03:17.040 --> 2:03:21.320 maybe is not quite as acrimonious as other efforts, you know, 2:03:22.120 --> 2:03:25.800 start this conversation about something that's very important. So Congressman 2:03:25.840 --> 2:03:28.760 Mike Simpson from Idaho thank you very much. Thank you, 2:03:28.800 --> 2:03:36.960 Steve appreciate it very much. All Right, Phil, we're gonna 2:03:37.200 --> 2:03:43.560 let's end its show there. Yeah, great guest Chester. You'll 2:03:43.560 --> 2:03:47.200 come back on for more investor updates. Yea. Hopefully we 2:03:47.240 --> 2:03:51.200 can just start doing the fishing adventures. Oh, like you 2:03:51.200 --> 2:03:54.160 want to after you get the boat? Oh? Can we 2:03:54.200 --> 2:03:57.000 do that, Phil? Yeah, I already made it as a 2:03:57.080 --> 2:03:59.520 separate jingle for when he gets the boat. Are you 2:03:59.520 --> 2:04:03.080 already did? Yeah? Okay, I hear it. There's Wallee in 2:04:03.120 --> 2:04:06.240 the snake right lower snake. Maybe I'll come over there 2:04:06.280 --> 2:04:12.240 and yeah, it should be like Lie and Chester the Investor, 2:04:12.360 --> 2:04:14.480 just because you got a Walleye boat when it could 2:04:14.520 --> 2:04:18.200 just morph. Yeah, money in action, your investment in action, 2:04:18.840 --> 2:04:21.040 investing in I'm so glad because I was. I was 2:04:21.040 --> 2:04:23.720 already starting to miss you, Like you get the boat 2:04:23.760 --> 2:04:26.960 and you wouldn't come into the studio anymore. I was 2:04:27.760 --> 2:04:31.120 the angler. That doesn't sound good. No, yeah, it can 2:04:31.160 --> 2:04:35.320 be investing my time in catching Walleye. You probably forgot 2:04:35.320 --> 2:04:36.880 that you did this, but you asked me to make 2:04:36.920 --> 2:04:40.919 a jingle. It's the continuing Walleye Adventures of Chester the Investors. 2:04:41.600 --> 2:04:43.800 You did on on the podcast. I have a tentative 2:04:43.840 --> 2:04:48.720 hold on Steve's boat right now, Chester for uh a 2:04:48.760 --> 2:04:52.320 couple of days in April and April first weekend May. 2:04:51.960 --> 2:04:57.040 The Ginering Ventures of Chester the Walleye. No restrictions or 2:04:57.160 --> 2:05:01.640 limits on Walleye or small Mouth where you're going. Yeah, 2:05:03.080 --> 2:05:08.120 he's going. He's going to help salmon. And that's it. 2:05:08.240 --> 2:05:11.160 You don't like do it, like looking at him, don't 2:05:11.200 --> 2:05:16.360 like catching him, but you thought long and hard. Somebody's 2:05:16.400 --> 2:05:17.520 got to do it. That was one of the things 2:05:18.040 --> 2:05:20.600 we used to laugh about was when people would be like, 2:05:21.720 --> 2:05:24.520 people to go shoot prairie dogs. You know, well, it's 2:05:24.520 --> 2:05:27.440 helping the rancher. I'm like, I bet you. I bet 2:05:27.480 --> 2:05:29.160 you if you went to the rancher and you said, 2:05:29.200 --> 2:05:31.840 me and my buddies here, I want to help. We 2:05:31.880 --> 2:05:35.840 just want to help. What can we do? I bet 2:05:35.880 --> 2:05:38.920 you about fifty on his list of chores would be 2:05:38.920 --> 2:05:43.600 shooting prairie dogs. He'd be like, see that fence and 2:05:43.640 --> 2:05:47.000 I'll five miles of it. If you really want to help, 2:05:47.960 --> 2:05:51.080 that would be helpful. He's liking those prairie dogs. I 2:05:51.080 --> 2:05:54.880 got this uh chemical dispenser on the front of my 2:05:54.960 --> 2:05:57.480 four wheeler and I just drive over each hole, hit 2:05:57.480 --> 2:06:00.400 a button and drops a load of rodents in there, 2:06:00.720 --> 2:06:03.240 so don't worry about that. Doesn't worry about the facts. Yeah, 2:06:04.200 --> 2:06:23.360 all right, thanks everybody,