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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer.

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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, we're here, Ryan Callahan. This goes out

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Speaker 1: to Yanni's dad. Yanni's dad. Yanni. We are joined by Phil,

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Speaker 1: who's having a little parfait. How is How is it? Phil?

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Speaker 1: It's always delicious? Yeah, smacking your lips over there? You

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Speaker 1: turned your mic off? Yeah, so people can't listen to

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Speaker 1: you smack. Some people love this kind of thing. Most

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Speaker 1: people hate it. I'm gonna turn it off. Uh, Chester,

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Speaker 1: who's here for a guest appearance? Uh? Today's installation of

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Speaker 1: the adventures? What is the what's the what's the show called?

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Speaker 1: Turn your thing back on? In the middle of a bite? Here? Uh?

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Speaker 1: The Continuing Adventures of Chester. The investor UM. Ryan Callahan

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Speaker 1: is here, fresh off his first I mean, like literally,

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Speaker 1: it's probably I mean, it's probably hasn't even it's probably

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Speaker 1: still percolating through your for sure COVID vaccine first round fighter.

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Speaker 1: That's not an endorsement, that's just what I got. You'll

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Speaker 1: know how it works, you, Um so you weren't. Did

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Speaker 1: you have like, uh, you know about getting the vaccine?

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Speaker 1: Were you afraid that, um, you know, the government was

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Speaker 1: going to put a tracking device in you and all

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. What's the main argument against the

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Speaker 1: vaccine that? Well, that's a big one and and the

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Speaker 1: whole thing is made up? So why I do this anyway?

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Speaker 1: And um, you know it's weird though, like, amongst a

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Speaker 1: large part of my family, we've never ever had flu shots.

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Speaker 1: I've never had a flu shot in my entire life.

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Speaker 1: But I wouldn't call yourself an anti vax no. But

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Speaker 1: I just ran because I don't get the flu, right,

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Speaker 1: I didn't as far as I know. As far as

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Speaker 1: we know, we've done a bunch of COVID tests. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I guess I haven't had an eye anibody test.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't get COVID either, So maybe you did,

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Speaker 1: but maybe I did. But you did, you've ast late

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Speaker 1: on getting the vaccine. There was part of me that

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Speaker 1: was like, self, do you find it odd that you've

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Speaker 1: never had the desire to get a flu shot or

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Speaker 1: felt like it was irresponsible to not get a flu shot?

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Speaker 1: But here you are really chomping at the bit to

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Speaker 1: get a COVID nineteen shot. Yeah, I had those thoughts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are notable. I mean, there's more incentive to kind

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Speaker 1: of wrap this up. If we can, then there is

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Speaker 1: the wrap up the flu. I don't really know why

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Speaker 1: that's true, but it's like I don't know. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like maybe it's acknowledging a little bit of frailty in

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Speaker 1: your cell. I'm tougher than the flu didn't get COVID,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know, but yeah, i'd had some

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Speaker 1: like huh, like, well, you know, don't feel sick. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I just have the good stuff already so I mess

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Speaker 1: with it. Were they friendly to you down there? Very friendly,

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Speaker 1: very thankful, Jeff, take your shirt off. No, I just

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Speaker 1: peeled gave her a little shoulder, a little taste of

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Speaker 1: the shoulders, and they were acting like they were acting

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Speaker 1: like you were doing them a good turn. Yes, very much.

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Speaker 1: So we're just so happy that you came in, like

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Speaker 1: giving blood or something. What shoulder would you like? You know,

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Speaker 1: like A, I'm my left shoulders closer to you about

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Speaker 1: that one. I'll get up and move. I'll get up

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Speaker 1: and move if you want it in the right shoulder,

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Speaker 1: do you want Bugs Buddy or camel uh band Aid

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Speaker 1: want Bugs Bunny. So there's enough camera in my life, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: And then how do you go about? Um, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: introduce un s second Eric. Uh. We're joined by podcasts

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Speaker 1: alum Eric Crawford, who's wearing a new hat. I don't

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Speaker 1: mean that literally, I mean figuratively wearing a new hat.

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Speaker 1: But how do you know when it's tigned to go

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Speaker 1: in for your other one? They right now, they're really

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Speaker 1: encouraging you to preschedule your second shot, but they're doing

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Speaker 1: it in blocks. So it's like the block that I'm

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Speaker 1: a part of right now that got signed up and

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Speaker 1: and got vaccine slots for today. Well, we'll all be

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Speaker 1: getting their second shot. A but uh, we're all on

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Speaker 1: the road April. Uh. But I had a long talk

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Speaker 1: with my Conciguliari Phil podcast producer over there with the

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Speaker 1: yogurt yep yogurt guy. I mean, look at him, he's

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Speaker 1: working on his gut health. He's already got a round

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Speaker 1: a vaccine in him. He's pretty liable source. So um,

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Speaker 1: and you're saying, just get it and figure out the

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Speaker 1: second one could be a week early, week late, but

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Speaker 1: got it? Yeah, so that's that's my program? Got it? Yep?

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Speaker 1: Eric Crawford, Well, was the last time you were on

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Speaker 1: the show you were a game warden? I was? I was, Gosh,

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Speaker 1: was it was that? Could that be? When the heck

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Speaker 1: was it? It was a long time ago. God, we're

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Speaker 1: just young pops back then, some of us. Yep, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing nowadays with yourself today? I worked for

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Speaker 1: Trout Unlimited as a North Pudeo field coordinator is what

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Speaker 1: my official title is. Did you know all along you're like, man,

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Speaker 1: someday when I'm not a game warden, I'm gonna work

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Speaker 1: for Trott Unlimited. I didn't know that, you know. It's

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Speaker 1: just a kind of a right, you know, set of circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Quite honestly, got burned out being a game warden after

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Speaker 1: twenty plus years of doing it. But at twenty plus years,

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Speaker 1: don't it, I meanears with the same agency, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we kind of like look out for you after that,

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Speaker 1: Like there's some retirement stuff and all that. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: straight up. Yeah, I got a pension and everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like you're not Are you older than

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Speaker 1: me or younger me? No? I think we're the same age.

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Speaker 1: That's not really fair. You're one year older me. Now

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Speaker 1: you're like you can tell people you're retired. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I still work though. That's a good point. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I don't draw in my retirement um with the state.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just a good transition from doing

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Speaker 1: you know, conservation law enforcement and conservation for that matter,

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Speaker 1: to now focusing on in on you know, salmon and

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Speaker 1: steelhead and cold water species throughout the state. Idea. Were

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Speaker 1: you torn about retiring? I wasn't. I wasn't at all

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Speaker 1: there there was so well, well, I will say this,

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Speaker 1: there is a day as I drove drove to the

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Speaker 1: office that I worked out of in Lewiston that it

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Speaker 1: really hit me that I was losing my identity if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense, Like, yeah, I was a game warden

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Speaker 1: for twenty years, Like that's packing the pistol line your

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Speaker 1: hip and yeah no, not wearing body armored to work

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Speaker 1: or wearing a side yeah no. But it was just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's who I am, that's who I identify with, And

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Speaker 1: then one day it was gone. Are your neighbors a

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Speaker 1: lot more forthcoming with you now? About like what they've

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Speaker 1: been up to? Uh? Um? I have one neighbor that

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Speaker 1: I think he's even more apprehensive now because then he

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Speaker 1: he doesn't know what I'm up to, and like he's

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Speaker 1: an avidly he used to know what not to tell you.

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Speaker 1: Now he's like, I don't even know anymore, not even

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Speaker 1: know Cal's aware of this. But last two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: last week, last weekend, it was, um, there was three

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Speaker 1: moose in my yard and so no, no alive, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: eat my shrubs. So I called the damn game department,

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Speaker 1: told me get their moose out of the yard, like

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Speaker 1: literally called my old neighboring officer. I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: these moose are back, what are you doing? But that

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Speaker 1: same neighbor had just evidently just been bitching like crazy

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Speaker 1: about him, like eating his apple trees, and he's happy

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Speaker 1: to see him. Gone, yeah, Um, are you admiring that

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Speaker 1: bowl right there? I am. The thing is, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to talk about. People can't see it, but it's gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: That's called a Bucky bowl. It is amazing. The inside

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Speaker 1: of it literally looks like polished stone rather than would

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Speaker 1: it's unbelieable. It's a birch, a birch burrow. That Buck Bowden,

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Speaker 1: who's also a podcast a lum um Buck Boden goes

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Speaker 1: out and hunts him down out in the woods out

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Speaker 1: in Alaska. Obviously, Chain saws off the burl and then

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Speaker 1: takes a like an angle grinder with this little wood

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Speaker 1: fitting on it and cuts away everything that doesn't look

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Speaker 1: like a bowl. So how many hours of effort goes

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Speaker 1: into that? Because it takes them about ten million hours.

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Speaker 1: I thought it'd be way more. It's gorgeous. I feel

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Speaker 1: in the walls are in that thing. It's beautiful. It

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Speaker 1: is um. The reason I bring this up is, uh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna make one. We're gonna make one of these

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Speaker 1: Bucky bowls. It'll be a while, so we'll stay tuned,

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Speaker 1: but we're gonna we're gonna have a way to make

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Speaker 1: one of these Buckey bowls available, and we're gonna raise

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Speaker 1: some uh conservation money by having a auction house of oddities.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying that I should start saving my money

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Speaker 1: so I can save the money now, because that big

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Speaker 1: ass bowl, you could pretty much Jester goa damn you

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Speaker 1: take a bath net thing. That bowl is gonna Bucks

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Speaker 1: got one that looks just like that. He's sending it

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Speaker 1: to us that we're gonna make available through an auction

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Speaker 1: house of oddities. Uh, lots of pictures of those things. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: ten hours is all I bet you if you went

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Speaker 1: to do it well. In fact, one of our camera

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Speaker 1: guys took from Buck's collection. Have did you ever asked

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Speaker 1: Lauren to hear from Lauren? You know, Lauren, how long

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Speaker 1: it took him to do it? He did it. He

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Speaker 1: did it. I don't know how long it took him, though,

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Speaker 1: but he was asking me a bunch of questions about

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Speaker 1: it with like the angle grinder, with the wood bits

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, because you're a little b crafty with wood. Chester. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it used to be like what you mean he can

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Speaker 1: still be crafty, be tired, but I still work. You

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Speaker 1: can still be crafty with wood. I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: it's not hard to be crafty with wood. Well, the

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Speaker 1: talking about Oh yeah, so we're gonna have Phil hit

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Speaker 1: the hit the Chester and the Investor um soundtrack, The

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Speaker 1: Continuing Adventures of Chester the Investor. Come that's it, come off,

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Speaker 1: it's right, come to pop um on um. What's going

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Speaker 1: on lately? Chess has been getting so much feedback about

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Speaker 1: his bitcoin operation. Yeah, a lot of people writing in

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Speaker 1: which I was surprised with advice. You have advice, here's one.

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Speaker 1: It's not quite advice. We know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: I started my coin base account back when bitcoin was

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Speaker 1: like ten k. They gifted me ten free dollars a bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: That money has now grown to thirty eight dollars in

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Speaker 1: one cent. If it keeps growing, I'll be able to

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Speaker 1: buy those new sweet first light pants all without ever

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Speaker 1: putting in my own money. Suck on that Chester, Austin

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Speaker 1: out of Arizona. How is the How is the investment

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Speaker 1: sitting right now? Um? It's kind of like just been

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Speaker 1: stagnant since the last time we talked about it. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it hasn't. I mean it's gone up and down, but

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Speaker 1: not huge swings A sorry. Yeah, do you guys feel

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Speaker 1: like your conversation has kind of stagnated the marketplace a little?

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Speaker 1: Like introduce some investor uncertainty because we might be we

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Speaker 1: might be tanking, influencing it, influencing the market. You might

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Speaker 1: be doing insider trading. Game stop, he's doing trading because

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Speaker 1: he knows when we're gonna talk about it. Are you

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Speaker 1: regretting your investment? You wish you put it into real estate? No?

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Speaker 1: I still made money on it, and it's it's I

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Speaker 1: haven't lost any money. It's just it's hard to put

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Speaker 1: a few thousand bucks into real estate. Oh yeah, like

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Speaker 1: I need a very small piece of land. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean to be clear, I'm not like, I don't have

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Speaker 1: a ton of money in bitcoin. Just trying to get

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Speaker 1: just trying to get a wife, trying to get Someone

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Speaker 1: wrote in this this is some feedback that I got.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you got it. Um, this guy

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Speaker 1: hates bitcoin. Okay, he doesn't like it. He doesn't like bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Um because of this, there's no social, tangible, utility or

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Speaker 1: value to it. He goes on to say that, which

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Speaker 1: is that's all. That's all subjective, right. What's not subjective

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Speaker 1: is this uses insane amounts of real energy. Okay. The

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Speaker 1: University of Cambridge suggests the bitcoin network uses more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty one tarawatt hours of electricity annually.

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Speaker 1: Now are you you've met with this chapter. There's about

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Speaker 1: a hundred eight countries in this world. Yeah, okay, if

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Speaker 1: bitcoin was the country, it would be thet is that

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Speaker 1: a word? Yeah, the thirtiest most energy sucking country on

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Speaker 1: the planet. That's how much electricity electricity those suckers are using.

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Speaker 1: The cost doesn't end there, Okay, familiar with there's a

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Speaker 1: bitcoin mining operation in in Milltown, Montana right there, you know,

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Speaker 1: like on the mill property. When they shut the mill down,

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Speaker 1: and uh, they seek out places to mine bitcoin that

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Speaker 1: I have a relatively low temperature because they got a

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Speaker 1: cool cool all the computers and all the computers are Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the facility also creates like an audible hum, and

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Speaker 1: you can hear that hum for miles really like once

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Speaker 1: you like, you know, it's that thing like you, once

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Speaker 1: you become familiar with it, you can hear it for

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Speaker 1: a long long way, and then eventually you're so familiar

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Speaker 1: with it you can't hear it anymore. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: gone now. Um for this could have been part of

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Speaker 1: the reason. But um their studies coming out suggesting that

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Speaker 1: this audible hum could make people tone deaf to that

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Speaker 1: pitch people and then uh also was having all sorts

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Speaker 1: of effects on like bats and birds and stuff like that. Jeez, Chester, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well dirty money, Chester feel like this is all It's

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Speaker 1: like Chester is holding the Walleye boat industry hostage. He's

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Speaker 1: basically saying, you could end this global environmental catastrophe just

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Speaker 1: by giving a walleye boat, bats birds that I'm into

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Speaker 1: it for the boat. If I get a boat, I

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Speaker 1: pull out. If not, I'm in killing bats, killing birds,

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Speaker 1: and may your children go tone deaf. However, there's some

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting stuff going on by you know, these mining

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Speaker 1: operations using energy, excess energy from UM fossil fuel mining

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Speaker 1: like oil rigs. I know you'd like to say this,

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Speaker 1: but I don't really know what this means. It means

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Speaker 1: to see what mining means, because they're thinking you're digging

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Speaker 1: a hole. Basically, a mining metaphor mining is solving a

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Speaker 1: long math problem, and once they solve it digital, it's digital.

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Speaker 1: It comes up with basically a number that cannot be replicated.

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Speaker 1: It's really difficult to replicate that number because you'd have

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Speaker 1: to go through the exact same steps you know, these

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Speaker 1: mining operations that have to do to come up with

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Speaker 1: that end number. That end number is a bitcoin and UM.

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Speaker 1: So the mining is just computations, very complex computations with

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Speaker 1: computers that that require lots of energy and make our

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Speaker 1: children not be able to hear certain sounds. Possibly, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know that's why he has that's why he's

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Speaker 1: so unconcerned with this. No, I'm I'm concerned. But there's

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Speaker 1: like most of bitcoin is mine in China, um, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of it is coming. They're setting up these

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Speaker 1: operations in dams and stuff where there is excess energy.

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Speaker 1: So like where in like low population areas where these

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Speaker 1: electrics these hydroelectric dams are creating too much energy, they

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Speaker 1: got nowhere to put it, So essentially it would just

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Speaker 1: be they're taking this access to mine bitcoin. Also, in

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Speaker 1: the United States, oil rigs you see them all over

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Speaker 1: produces natural asides. So they're basically tapping into these flares

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Speaker 1: and trying their best to use excess energy, which that

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Speaker 1: that energy would be going to nobody, you know it wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: They're not using it, they're just burning it off. How

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Speaker 1: much believe that a scale of one to ten. I

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Speaker 1: believe it, Like you lose energy when you move energy.

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Speaker 1: That's that's part of the deal. So can I can

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Speaker 1: sense think about this. The US dollar is backed by

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Speaker 1: the US government, Uncle Sam, Uncle Sam, which I'm not

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Speaker 1: hating on the U s dollar. I'm just turning yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: we need the US but it is backed by the

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Speaker 1: US government, which is essentially backed by the military, and

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Speaker 1: think about how much gasoline the military uses every day

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Speaker 1: to protect our dollars. Is going deep? Is deep? Now

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Speaker 1: I can't even tort I have to come back for

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Speaker 1: the next next time we do this segment and think

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Speaker 1: of a retort. Well, and it's all for a Whileye boat,

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Speaker 1: that's the most strike, you know what I'm here? Think

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Speaker 1: about like this magic. If the military would just give

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Speaker 1: Chester a Walleye boat, they wouldn't even feel it their

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Speaker 1: budgets fell off a train somewhere, and they'd win him

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Speaker 1: back over to the US dollar and he'd be back

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Speaker 1: a fan of the US dollar to get that customer back,

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Speaker 1: and he wouldn't be putting his money in some crypto

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Speaker 1: terrorism deal Chester. So let me tell you another. Here's

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Speaker 1: another possible retort Chester for you, not for me, but

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Speaker 1: for you. Would be um that if you didn't buy it,

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Speaker 1: someone else a buy it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like you getting out of this Walleye boat business isn't

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Speaker 1: gonna make or break Bitcoin, absolutely not. Yeah. Uh, what's

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Speaker 1: your timeline? Like, at what point would you be frustrated

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Speaker 1: if you didn't have your Walleye boat a couple of

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Speaker 1: months Oh, you like he wants that boat because well

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Speaker 1: his buddy Staths just went out and bought a boat

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Speaker 1: the old fashioned way work and that military just work

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Speaker 1: and take your money and buy a boat. Now he's

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Speaker 1: out pounding wall eyes and Chester's just sitting around hitting

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Speaker 1: and refresh on his bitcoin account. I went with him.

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Speaker 1: You gotta tasted a good life. I gotta taste and

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Speaker 1: that was all I needed. Yeah, you gotta pace yourself though,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to make the wrong purchase. That's true,

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Speaker 1: and right now it's really hard to find as a

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Speaker 1: guy that has done that myself. Well what Chesters think

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Speaker 1: about doing it all? Honesty? Chesters thinking about selling his

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Speaker 1: drift boat, putting the drift boat money toward the wall

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Speaker 1: eye boat, and then promptly getting back into bitcoin just

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Speaker 1: to make just to make screw you money. Yeah, smart move.

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Speaker 1: I I did something similar. I had a raft with

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Speaker 1: a fishing frame, sold that upgraded to a drift boat.

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Speaker 1: But that was when I moved to the Lewis and

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Speaker 1: Moscow area. Now realized I couldn't get to where I

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Speaker 1: needed to to fish salm and steelhead, sturgeon, cocone, you

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Speaker 1: name it. And now I have a power boat m

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Speaker 1: sold them, so just often upgraded. What's that drift boat worth?

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Speaker 1: Probably Hunterbucks motor that I'm torn because you know right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm not the kind of guy who probably should

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Speaker 1: be buying a wallet boat. You know, just you're gonna

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Speaker 1: earn it like this way. That doesn't have any impact

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Speaker 1: because this is money you found in a drawer. True, well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't find it storing it a drawer. I worked

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Speaker 1: for it. The we were just talking. Boat boats are

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Speaker 1: a hot topic because there are no boats on the

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Speaker 1: market right now. That's very It is a seller's market,

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Speaker 1: you could say, right, low inventory, lots of demand. Now

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Speaker 1: is the time to get top dollar for that drift boat.

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Speaker 1: And I have a raft you can borrow any time

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Speaker 1: you want. Thanks Cal, Yeah, it's nice. Everybody wins with condition.

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Speaker 1: Cal gets invited on every Walleye trip. Oh I already decided.

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Speaker 1: I told him if he needs to drive to Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: and get a sweet Walleye boat, he can take my truck,

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Speaker 1: because he's not talking about as if he ends up

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Speaker 1: with a big lake Walleye boat, he all of a a

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Speaker 1: sudden needs a vehicle to tow that boat. And then

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Speaker 1: later years from now, you'd be like, how did you

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Speaker 1: get that boat out here from Wisconsin? Oh, that's right,

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Speaker 1: you took my truck. That's right, tuck um can can

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Speaker 1: we ask you? Can you put your your former game

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Speaker 1: warden hat on? And I want to run a question

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Speaker 1: by this. This This is a hard question to ask. I

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Speaker 1: just chooing fairness to the audience. I teed it up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I asked it was okay to ask it um our governor.

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Speaker 1: Here in Montana, there's been some articles written, uh, with

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Speaker 1: what I have found to be a decidedly um misleading

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Speaker 1: collection of headlines about the governors sort of like illegally

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Speaker 1: uh you know, like illegally kills a Yellowstone wolf. So

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact headline. It was such that

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Speaker 1: I thought when I saw the headline, I thought, man,

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Speaker 1: it's so ungovernored, like to go into Yellowstone National Park

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Speaker 1: and shoot a wolf. That's what I thought. Reading the headline.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is a big deal, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I read the article and I'm like, the third

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Speaker 1: or fourth paragraph or the article, I get to what

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Speaker 1: like what happened actually transpired? Not to make an apology

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Speaker 1: for it, but it's just it was like it was

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Speaker 1: funny that in in searching for a headline, people that

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Speaker 1: wanted to make it something like you put down like

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Speaker 1: dead killed Yellowstone Wolf. It's like, you know what's gonna

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Speaker 1: be sticky? Right? Um? What did happen was if if

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Speaker 1: you go online here and you're from Idaho, but you

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Speaker 1: go online in this state and buy a trapping permit, Um,

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Speaker 1: there's there's a season two travels. You're trapping permit is

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Speaker 1: good for all trapping activities, with the exceptional one thing

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Speaker 1: you need to do an online certification, like you need

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Speaker 1: to take an online course. There's a there's a quiz

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Speaker 1: in it. I don't know, mostly some kind of thing

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Speaker 1: to make sure you were actually paying attention. I gotta

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Speaker 1: believe there's because we in Idaho has a similar trapping

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Speaker 1: ed course specific to wolves. Okay, the wolf trapping course

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Speaker 1: above and beyond trapper education, so we don't we were

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Speaker 1: going to in this state, but we don't have trapper education.

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Speaker 1: I think that it came down to this is a tangent.

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Speaker 1: I think it was something like the state the state

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Speaker 1: agency was going to put it in place, but it

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Speaker 1: realized it was more it needed to be kind of

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Speaker 1: like a game commissioned decision or somehow it got put off.

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Speaker 1: We still don't have the trapper education course, but they

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Speaker 1: were able to do it with wolves. If you've bought

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Speaker 1: another thing to be similar to this is when you

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Speaker 1: buy um. You know, when you buy a deer hunting license,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to take a test that shows you

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Speaker 1: can tell the difference between a white tail and the

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Speaker 1: mule dere um. But when you buy a bear license

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Speaker 1: here you need to go on and take this little

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Speaker 1: primer that helps you distinguish black bear from a grizzly

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Speaker 1: so people don't accidentally, help prevent people accidently shooting grizzies.

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Speaker 1: Similar thing like that. Um, and it's pretty clear, like

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Speaker 1: it's it's clear you need to take this thing. I've

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Speaker 1: been on there and looked at the whole deal. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So he trapped wolf like otherwise legally trapped wolf was

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Speaker 1: not yelloso on part. It was private property on a ranch.

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Speaker 1: Trapped wolf. I don't know what happened, but it turned

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Speaker 1: out that um. Uh, it turns out that he had

403
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Speaker 1: not gotten his Uh, he had not done the online certification,

404
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: had a license, did all the other stuff, didn't have

405
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Speaker 1: that online certification, didn't take the free of course, and

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Speaker 1: then there's been a um and was issued a warning. Hmm.

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Speaker 1: What do you kind of imagine about, like what would

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Speaker 1: be your line of thinking in a situation like that,

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Speaker 1: like if we if we remove the title? Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that's the important part. I try to strip away the title. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that you have someone who looked you know, it's quite

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Speaker 1: clear when you go on the website you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: do this thing forgot meant to get to it later

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Speaker 1: had read that part. Who knows, Um, how do you

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Speaker 1: view something like that? Yeah, So I think that's a

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Speaker 1: key part of it, is removing the title as though

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Speaker 1: it's just a regular person. And then you got to

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Speaker 1: look at well, what was their intent? Were they trapping

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Speaker 1: with NB? Seven fifties? Um? Were they absolutely targeting a wolf?

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Speaker 1: Or was it incidental to kyo trapping? So once you

421
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of that, and if it's as

422
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: simple as a hunter ed or a trapper head or

423
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: wolf trapper head equation, um, you know, I think it

424
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: depends on everything leading up to that. Like I said,

425
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: the whole the situation, in all the circumstances. Um. But

426
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, a warning for doing something like that, it's

427
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: in season. Um, you could legally harvest it. Uh. It

428
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: just the problem was that he didn't have the necessary

429
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: trapper ed or wolf trapper ed certification. And so you know, yeah,

430
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: it's reasonable to get get a warning and you know,

431
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: forfeit that wildlife since you didn't have, you know, the

432
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: necessary certifications. So you feel that in in a in

433
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: an interview situation, when all the facts are presented, you

434
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: can see a scenario in which a warning is yeah,

435
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: and I mean what what you're looking at, you know,

436
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: was the individual's intent to really buck the system and

437
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: not take the trapping course. I mean, how long does

438
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: it take? Does anybody know? Oh? Five minutes? Yeah, and

439
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: it's online, you know, in Idaho it's gosh, just a

440
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: twelve hour course. It might even be eight hours. Interesting

441
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: comparison wrap because it's like two out of three thing. Right,

442
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: he had his trapping license, he had his wolf tag,

443
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: but he didn't have the online certification. Yeah. Um, what

444
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: I have seen like down at the Hagerman Boat Ramp

445
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: in Idaho waterfowl scenario. Right, Idaho has the migratory bird

446
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: like the state migratory Bird endorsement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, migratory

447
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: So you have your hunting license, you have your federal

448
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: migratory duck stamp, but you don't have the two dollars permit.

449
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: But you don't have the two dollars the least expensive thing,

450
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: the two dollar thing, right, And I don't recall anybody's

451
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: ducks being take. I've seen many people get ticketed on

452
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: that boat ramp for that. I don't recall anybody's ducks

453
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: being Yeah. An example this is always bring up is uh.

454
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: And I think I've mentioned it three times. A don't

455
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: think it's it's wherew do you say? What was that word? Illustrative?

456
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't know illustrative just right, I'm using that. Well,

457
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: let's hear what you have to say that it was

458
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: a guy uh. And I remember he does some he

459
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: does hunting media, and I remember that he you know, also,

460
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: you see these articles that he was like, um, honey,

461
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 1: without a license or poaching an elk or whatever. Right,

462
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: and it gets presented that way because that's splashy. But

463
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: remember the thing being that he had his several hundred

464
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: dollar nonresident ELK tag but hadn't gotten the five dollar

465
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: bow hunter stamp. In a case like that, I'm not

466
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: excusing it like you need to have you need to

467
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: have it, like you know, you're responsible to know all this,

468
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: like absolutely, but you look and you when you look

469
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: at the intent thing, I can't picture someone being like

470
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: and I know how to save five bucks, Like it

471
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: has to be another explanation besides someone you look for

472
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: another explanation besides someone just pulling a fast one, you know,

473
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: and you would see that, you know, that's a really

474
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: good example because in Idaho and Cali you're probably familiar

475
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: with this, is that you now need archery d to

476
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: get your archery permit, your validation. And so it could

477
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: be a system now where people are in that age

478
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: class that they would have to take archery education um

479
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: to get that permit that they don't want to take.

480
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 1: They don't want to waste the time to take however

481
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: many hours there it is. You know, you just gotta

482
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: look at all the circumstances, uh to to to find

483
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: a lesson. Here, I would point out, I'm finding a lesson.

484
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: Imagine the uh imagine the embarrassment and distraction that one

485
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: goes through in a situation like this. It's really just pays.

486
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: It really pays to when you're engaging in a new activity,

487
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: when time has gone by and the rules might have changed,

488
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: an it pays to Uh, I'll put it this way.

489
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: I sometimes when we're going to a new state, I'm

490
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: learning to have to be a practice to lay out

491
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: to someone like, here's the things I have, Here's what

492
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: I want to do. Am I missing anything in my

493
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: pile of stuff? Here? Like? Am I getting this right?

494
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: And a big part of solving that is getting also

495
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: getting licenses from places where the vendors are familiar with

496
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: the rules. This is not the dog on Walmart, but

497
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: I've had to go into Walmart's um where they have

498
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: a sporting good section, and I've had to go in

499
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: and argue with people about what I need. Right, It's

500
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: nice to go to a place where and again I'm

501
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: not I'm not trashing. It provides great service. Right, if

502
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: people go buy stuff there, it's wonderful. But um, to

503
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: go to a place where you have more subject matter expert,

504
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: more likely to encounter a subject matter expert, and take

505
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: the time to be like at the end of your

506
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: transact in the middle of it, be okay, I'm doing this,

507
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: but I might do this and what if this happens? Like,

508
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: am I is my situation dialed. Yeah, I would see

509
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: that a lot. Is that, Well, hey I bought I

510
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: bought my stuff at this vendor and they said I

511
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: had everything I needed and it was you know, and

512
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: what do you say that. It's just like, well you

513
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: don't have everything. Please go back, Please go back and

514
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: get your archery validation, Like I'm telling you you don't

515
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: have it, you know, And it's a simple fix, you know.

516
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: But very good point, Steve. I mean, you gotta go

517
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: to the subject matter expert and and choosing a place

518
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: like that or maybe a gas station may not be

519
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: the right place. You got to where it's like the

520
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: crusty old guy who is not going to let you

521
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: purchase anything until you've heard the fifteen minute history of

522
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: the game unit lines being redrawn and it's not the

523
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: way it was when he was a kid, and here's

524
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: how he knows. And then you can get down to

525
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: actually giving that person money and getting out the door,

526
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,959
Speaker 1: as opposed to the just give me the thing and

527
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: with the right stuff. Uh okay, the a little bit

528
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: more on the we covered the We're there Chester when

529
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: we covered the hairy eyeball disease. Yeah, fascinating, man, what's

530
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: it called weird stuff corneal dermoids. I don't know until

531
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: very recently there's a it can hit humans. It's all

532
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 1: manner of mammal species where somehow you're eyeball becomes hairy,

533
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: like the hair making stuff basically your eyeball somehow turns

534
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: to basically skin and then it starts growing hair. Like yeah, crazy.

535
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 1: If you're a human, you can imagine it's probably you know,

536
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: all kinds of ways to fix it. But this this

537
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: deer turns up blind like his problem in each eye.

538
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: Both eyes probably got worse and worse and worse and

539
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: worse till one day that deer was flat old blind

540
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: and its eyeball it's just hair. Yeah. The the the

541
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: I think the case that's being referenced is they were

542
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: I think they determined that this was something that came

543
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: that that evolved over time, versus the deer being born

544
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 1: with harry eyeballs. Because of the way that they're like,

545
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: there's some learning how would have gotten that old, right,

546
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: there's some learned behavior here that probably couldn't come about

547
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: any other way than if the deer could see up

548
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: to a serious point and then and then it haired over. Well,

549
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: then plus the helplessness of it. But the reason I

550
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: bring this back up is this guy, a listener of

551
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: the show, sends in a picture from a cow elk

552
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: from New Mexico. Um, it's not my inst Graham, So

553
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: if you go to add Stephen Roanella you'll find the um.

554
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: Make sure to hit follow. Are you there you'll find

555
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: the a picture of this one. This Harry Eyeball, and

556
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: this is an elk shot. His body shot it, and

557
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: he says. The funny thing is his body who shot

558
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: the elk is blind in the same left eye. So

559
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: the hunter in the elk have a bum eye left side.

560
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: And this elk has hair. It's like as long as

561
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: Phil's hair, way way longer than Cal's hair. It's pretty gross.

562
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: Let me see how long your hair is. Chester. Yeah,

563
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm losing it about the length of Phil in Chester's

564
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: hair sticking out of his eyeball. Oh oh, I honestly

565
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: can't believe those those pictures weren't flagged for sensitive material

566
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: because some stuff on your on your Instagram has it.

567
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: I thought shouldn't be. But the cross Harry, you can

568
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: see an argument CROs Harry Eyeball, it is still Yeah,

569
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: wid wide open to all viewers. Someone's telling me that

570
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: there's a medical Instagram page that gets flagged all the time.

571
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: So you can be trying to be constructive and helpful

572
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: and educational and still get flagged. It's people really don't

573
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: like looking at these hairy eyeballs. Yeah, that's what I

574
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: say when I see that, phil Um, if you find

575
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: if we keep going, talk about a couple more things, Yeah,

576
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: I like. I think I like the next one. Honestly

577
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: into this one. You know, we're gonna talk about really

578
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: to talk to Karin, who's not here because she's not here. Evidently, No,

579
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: she'd normally be here. She's not here, she's in Texas.

580
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: Crint just told you we're gonna talk about I'm forty sure,

581
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 1: I know. Does it feel like you're kind of watching

582
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: the sausage you get made when you have our when

583
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: you have our stuff, there's a little bit of sausage making. Yeah.

584
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: How would you eight Karin as a producer? Oh she's

585
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: a top notch Yeah, I really. I gave her kudos

586
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: the other day for that Preston Pittman piece. Yeah that

587
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: was fantastic. Yeah, it's springing, but you know, just he's always, always,

588
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: admired him when I was younger. Yeah, I love you know,

589
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: as an young turkey hunter and he was, you know

590
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: it back then been shot twice. Can't argue with that,

591
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: oh boy. But then it's also his you know, his

592
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 1: sage advice at the end. It was really great. He's

593
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: a class act. Phil, you know what you ought to

594
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: think about? Uh? I like, I like trail camps so much,

595
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: A trail camp pictures so much that, um, if we

596
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: had an opening, like like, I don't know what it

597
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: would look like. Oh, you know what we could use is,

598
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 1: um remember J Giles band centerfolds? Yeah, standard entertaining. Maybe

599
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: a little something with that, maybe to intro the segment

600
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: caught on this is caught on trail cam. Um, so

601
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: I'll be like tonight on caught on trail cam. Two

602
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: bucks mounting each other. This is interesting. Cal is gonna

603
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: give us a report on this. So a guy sending

604
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: some pictures of a buck mounting another buck. So buck

605
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: mounting a buck for about six seconds. Turns out there's

606
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: this whole world of it's an obvious question why how'd

607
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: that come to be? And there's even like an acronym

608
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: for it, S S B S s B stands for

609
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: it should be s S s B. It stands for

610
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: same sex sexual behavior in wild Yanni's opinion, Yanni had

611
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: always thought it was related to like his gas was,

612
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: it was related to dominance. You know, they're always like

613
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: fighting and posture and doing all kinds of stuff, and

614
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: it's like a dominance thing. One day, I was turkey

615
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: out with my kids. We were talking to a cattle

616
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: rancher because all of his cows were all mounting each other,

617
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: and for the life of me, I cannot remember what

618
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: he told me. Hopefully a cattle guy can write it,

619
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: and we should have called one. I think he had

620
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: just maybe weaned. No, you wouldn't be turkey season. You're

621
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 1: not weaning him. No, not am No, there's a thing

622
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: he told me, how long is our gestation period? Cal

623
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: you're not you're not pregning them yet. They don't have

624
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: a leven month gestation period. No, they have a brand

625
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: new calf. Yeah, but they're all mounting each other. Those

626
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: would be probably the steers from the year before, right,

627
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: It's not what that would be. Oh, yeah, I should

628
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: be paying attention. Yeah, my kid was real curious about

629
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: all the mountain going on. He told us, And I

630
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: must have been distracted by something, because for the life meeting,

631
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: we've got great people. There's a big cattleman I email

632
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: with down in Florida. He's headed like the Florida cattleman's

633
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: he'd tell me, damn sure, what's that count? Gestation period?

634
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: Two three days? That's that's an average between like our

635
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: our most common domestic cattle breeds. I bet you it's

636
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: a year ling. It's the yearlying that's doing that, particularly

637
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: year linter steer. I bet you I got a turkey

638
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: hundred yards from there. We had that conversation after hunting

639
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: turkey winter range. Yeah, yeah, big time. I probably wouldn't

640
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: tell people that that might dispel some of my perceived expertise. Um, well,

641
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: he's what what Eric's referring to. There is it in

642
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: the inner Mountain West where winners are very severe and

643
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: where problem that were they're not historic populations of turkeys.

644
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: They have a way of in the winter finding their

645
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: way down to a cattle graining operation, find the biggest

646
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: feed lot you can, and disperse and in migrate like

647
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: considerable distances from those places, but you'll have it. You

648
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: might have a rancher that's feeding cattle, and all of sudden,

649
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: come February, he's got thys. Yeah, he's got every turkey

650
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: within twenty mile. See it all across the west. And

651
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: then as soon as things start to green up, they

652
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: just get bored and leave. And then they go off

653
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: and do turkey stuff. Yeah, everybody talks about how important

654
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, mule and their winter ranges, what we need

655
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: to do to protect them. Geez, those turkey winter ranges. Yeah,

656
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: it's pretty valuable. It should be like if you love turkeys,

657
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: hug a feed lot. Hug feed lot manager. All right,

658
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: I'll lay it on for us. Uh. Well, I think

659
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: the It's interesting that this topic also popped up right

660
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: because Krant and I were talking about Preston and and

661
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: he was talking about the homosexual turkey. He's like, there's

662
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: two who thinks that the turkeys either homosexual or the

663
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: turkey's like being shot out before or something like to

664
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: account to account for why I would have no interest

665
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: in the cause of a hen in coming in and

666
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: um we there's a discussion that followed of like is

667
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: that correct? Is that just like an off the cuff

668
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: type of this is this is my reasoning and there's

669
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: no reason for it. Good observation from a blitzman trying

670
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: to find an excuse for a long beard not coming

671
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: in right, exactly right. But I was like, well, homosexual

672
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: behavior in a huge variety of animals is is very

673
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: well documented stuff. I mean, it is a plausible and

674
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: it is a pure reviewed possibility. You could say, right,

675
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: people have written papers on this. Um. And then you

676
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: can go even further, and there is the sexual Uh

677
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: what's the sexual ginandromorphism? Sexual dimorphism, not dimorphism that that's

678
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: just a difference in size. Oh yeah, there it is.

679
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: Bilateral ginandromorphs were half siders. Uh. And I did enough

680
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: digging around. Super fascinating, but it's odd that it's the

681
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: most apparent in birds. And you can have a true

682
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: fifty fifty split and a um down the middle down, yeah,

683
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: down the middle. And uh, there's a uh guy in

684
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania who got a couple of good pictures of a

685
00:42:51,760 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: bilateral ginandro morph a cardinal in Pennsylvania, which is you know, uh,

686
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: split directly down the middle, red male resembling cardinal on

687
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: one side, female resembling cardinal on the opposite side. And um,

688
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: this is documented enough to where he didn't turn the bird.

689
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't kill the bird in and dissect it.

690
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: But ah, science would say that this bird has both

691
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: ovaries and testes. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's the

692
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: word bilateral jnando in jnando ginandral morphs half siders. That's

693
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: really something, man. Yeah, I mean I thought so. But

694
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: one of the reasons people struggle with this with like

695
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: same sex of behavior and animals because you want to

696
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: look at it like everything they do must right, has

697
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: to be reproduction, has to be reproduction, else doesn't make

698
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: any sense, right, But so that's the case, then you

699
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: have to d um to male deer attempting to mount

700
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: one another. Uh, there's no points which are not reproducing,

701
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: so like that shouldn't happen, that's not reproduction. Yeah, and

702
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: then you can go away down the rabbit hole. And

703
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 1: and there's all sorts of papers of all sorts of

704
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: animals performing sexual acts that have that do not relate

705
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: to reproduction worms from worms to drafts, including dolphins, lions, bison's, walrus,

706
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: many birds. Yeah, there's a paper out of Japan those

707
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: cool looking snow monkeys that oh I don't think those

708
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: monkeys are cool looking. Ice coated monkey, icy monkey in

709
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 1: the hot spring is too much for me, Icy hot

710
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: spring monkey. There's a lot for me to handle. They

711
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: there is a paper out there that has there, you know,

712
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: as all papers do, started with an observation led to

713
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: a question of is this a one time thing or

714
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: does this happen all the time? But those uh monkeys

715
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: hop on top of the deer that come down to

716
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: the hot springs and eat And maybe we did cover

717
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: it on the Meat Eat podcast that the female of

718
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: female monkey would hop on a deer and then and

719
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: ride the deer until it found some sexual release and

720
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: then you know, I head back to the hot spring. Yeah. Incredible, Yeah,

721
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: which might be something somewhere you've seen in your time

722
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: in law enforcement around hot springs and a lot of

723
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: geothermal over there. What's what's more remarkable than that the

724
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: monkey does it is that the deer tolerates it. Yeah,

725
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: that the deers like do they tolerate or do they

726
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: seem too? Yeah? I forgot about that story. Did you

727
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: cover that on Cale's weekend review? I think so? It's

728
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: hard hundred episodes. Yeah, who the hell knows what you covered?

729
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: We we just just finished a hundred episodes. Phils nodding. Yeah,

730
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: that's right. We can kind of off our regularly scheduled

731
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: programming the last for we're gonna get back to the

732
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: news hard news cycle here on one on one. Uh,

733
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: how do you get I want to talk about this,

734
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: this explanation for what's this what's the an acronym SSB

735
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: same sex behavior, Same sex sexual behavior one explanation, I

736
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: should say it's an explanation. But like a thing to

737
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: think about is that you have to imagine like life

738
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: in all of its forms UM and when you had

739
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: life forms that had you know, but not that we

740
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: don't anymore. We still do life forms that have UM

741
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: less pronounced sexual dimorphism appearances side whatever that UM. Maybe

742
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: at a time when you encountered or maybe amongst some species,

743
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: you encounter a look alike and the one organism doesn't

744
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: know about the other organism what it is male female, right, Yeah,

745
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: and they just they couple. Well. I think that where

746
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: you're going with it is the fact that this has

747
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: been happening for a long time in a number of species.

748
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is that it is

749
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: self limiting because there is no reproduction. Yeah, that that's

750
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: the part that I found so interesting about it, says,

751
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: And so we hypothesize that present day diversity and sexual

752
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: behavior and animals stems from an ancestral background of you'll

753
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: like that, you'll appreciate this indiscriminate mating among individuals indiscriminate

754
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: may indiscriminate mating among individuals of all sexes, and some

755
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: branches of the animal tree of life, where SSB is

756
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 1: actually quite costly, this behavior might be selected against. Yeah,

757
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: takes energy, takes energy, takes a lot of energy. You

758
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: think about a lot, Cal, Oh, yeah, no, it's yeah.

759
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we're facts of life stuff. There's just a

760
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: lot of life out there. Is this kind of funny

761
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: when people talk about this stuff. Was if they've got

762
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: like lab coats and clipboards. But maybe I'm being basic

763
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: and crude here, but it's sort of like it's like

764
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: why are we all kind of wondering why why these

765
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: animals have these same sex interactions when we we just

766
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: have to like look at each other and look at humans, like,

767
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: because we're not the same films, we didn't come from

768
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: No monkey, Yeah that's true, Cal, But I mean, like

769
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm just maybe Occam's Razors and the way

770
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: to Go. But I'm just kind of thinking, like, well,

771
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: maybe they're just horny and sexuality is a weird, complex spectrum.

772
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: There's something I'm attracted to. God, yeah it is is,

773
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: but you know, and that's like the odd thing, right.

774
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: It's like there's gonna be a chunk of the folks

775
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: listening who are like, hey man, it's not Adam and Eve.

776
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's like, well, boy, it's weird

777
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: that birds do it, and bees do it, and and

778
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: worms do it and do it to do it and

779
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: they've been around, they have a long time. Yeah. I

780
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: don't look at it as I don't look at it is?

781
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: Should they? I just look at it as huh okay,

782
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah. But I mean it's it's just kind

783
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: of funny. We're like wondering, well, like why would they

784
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: expend their energy if the whole thing is to reproduce?

785
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: And like I totally understand that, but how many animals

786
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: when they engage in is it called coitus when it's

787
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: animals when they have sex, how many of them have

788
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: I know that they are they have a chance to

789
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: reproduce and create another just acting on instinct, like I

790
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: have this weird urge to do this, and I'm gonna

791
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: do it. That's we're intelig enough to teach our kids

792
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: and we know what will happen if this happens. Animals

793
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: c cucumber saying here's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I'm

794
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: gonna make a lot more c cucumbers. When I expel exactly,

795
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: is he just he's just he's just doing what he

796
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: feels like doing, whether it's a male or a female.

797
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: So like Darwin had this theory, right, and that was

798
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: a long long time ago, And like I just read

799
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: a paper last year on giraffe specifically, right, and it's

800
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: like old giraffe's like the young bull old bowl thing, right,

801
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: And there's like young giraffe bowls do a lot of mating,

802
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 1: and the ones that made the most do not live

803
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: as long because they're they're really working hard, and the

804
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: ones that don't put that much effort into maating live

805
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: a lot longer. And because they live a lot longer,

806
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: they end up having more offspring m you know. And

807
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: it's like, but you gotta work really hard, you know,

808
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: And you know, there's the observation also of there's all

809
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 1: sorts of communities out there that are it's like there,

810
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a frenzy of sexual activity.

811
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: And the selection process isn't anything that we kind of

812
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion of of like is there actually

813
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: selection process? If there was, then look at all the

814
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: connections happening here, and why would any of that make sense? Right? So,

815
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's all good questions, but no, like

816
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: my conclusion isn't like I'll be damned. Yeah. What justifies

817
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: me in feeling that I can go like, huh, is

818
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: because they're writing about it in like science and nature. Yeah,

819
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: so there's still obviously a lot of there's someone like

820
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: there's some scientific validity, and I don't think it can

821
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: all be captured. I don't think you'd be like all

822
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: cases are um pleasure inducing, all cases are mistaken attempts

823
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: to reproduce, all cases are dominance. I mean could it's

824
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: probably this giant spectrum of impulses and desires. Uh, and

825
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: then you like overlay that on what humans do, right,

826
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: And it's just like until we can figure out a

827
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: way to start um interviewing all of these species and

828
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: animals and and get some get some straight facts. Uh,

829
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: you know what, it seemed like he did this when

830
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: you were younger. You identified as female when you were

831
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: younger and had millions of babies, but now you're male.

832
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: Why did you choose to do that? You know, it's

833
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: like it's hard to apply it. You know, it's like

834
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: nature is freaking fascinating and awesome. Yeah. Why is it

835
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: legal to sell a mounted animals? Not that kind of

836
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: not anytime amounting situation, but like a shoulder mount right

837
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: with hide on it, horns on it or antlers on it,

838
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. But it is illegal to

839
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: trade meat. So stems back to Lacy Act days early

840
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: early on in the commercialization of wildlife, and so you

841
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 1: don't want to profit off of um meat, specifically meat,

842
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: because there absolutely is a value to wild game meat.

843
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: You know, you can go to the grocery store and

844
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: see domestic meat and see what value is placed there.

845
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: And so if it was incentivized to sell edible portions,

846
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: it would be a huge problem. And that's what you know,

847
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 1: primarily what we saw with the Lacy Act and the

848
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: development of that and other things, the Migratory Bird Act

849
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: with trying to take away the value monetary value of

850
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: specific wildlife and so um, that's why you know the

851
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: basics of why you can't I'll meet game meat, but

852
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: you can sell but a lot of times you can't

853
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: sell of some things and some circumstances. You can't sell

854
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: raw hides. Yeah yeah, sometimes you processed, Yeah, like you

855
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 1: The only way. The only outlet, at least in Idaho,

856
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: and I'm sure this is consistent across the United States,

857
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: is you can only sell a green hide. What Steve

858
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: is talking about, So his Martin hides or his beaver

859
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 1: hides that are green haven't been tanned. The only person

860
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: you could sell that too is a fur buyer that

861
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: is permitted and licensed. You can't just go out and

862
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: sell him on the street. Green. Um sounds going to

863
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: add to that? Oh that you can capes, you know

864
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: you can make like I've sold cape soft things. I

865
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: sold a cape one time for a thousand dollars. I

866
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: was standing right next to a friend who sold a

867
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: cape one time for six hundred bucks. Or if you

868
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: have a tax numbers who has a client. Let's say

869
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: a guys shoots a big something. She's a big but

870
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: hits it through the neck and he's gonna put all

871
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: this money in New Mouth, but the next is no good.

872
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,959
Speaker 1: So they wanted they want the cape, the neck hied

873
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: off another dude to put the antlers out so it

874
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: looks normal. Those are canna be quite valuable. You can

875
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: strip that thing right off and sell it. Yeah. Yeah,

876
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: And here I thought I was doing good with a

877
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: forty white tail cape that I'd sell. Well, these weren't

878
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: white tails. Yeah, but you know, I'm sure something to

879
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: the right person. But uh, it's just interesting, right, it

880
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: doesn't How can I sell you that? But but I

881
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: can't sell you some neck meat too, Yeah, Nope, you can't. Yeah.

882
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: And I once sold the full cape of a white

883
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: tail buck, big bodied white tail buck to attack sermist

884
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: in trade for him tanning my bare hide which you

885
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: were barbering. Yeah, a little barber. Weren't trained neck meat. No, no, no,

886
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: no neck meat. So you can see how, without knowing

887
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: the full story, you can see how people would look

888
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: at that and be like that makes zero sense. Absolutely, yeah.

889
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: And it's just about creating a commercial you know, situation

890
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: and monetizing it. That's the biggest problem. And you do

891
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: see in commercialization of wildlife cases. You know, it's not

892
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,959
Speaker 1: always about horns because it's a lot easier to get meat,

893
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: and so you will occasionally see a case where they're

894
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: just out you know, spotlighting deer to commercially sell the

895
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: meat because it it has value. When they put the

896
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: laws into effect, um, they tailored it like you know.

897
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 1: And and one of the things that inspired Theodore Roosevelt

898
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: to do the conservation work that he did was the

899
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: what's that word the plant planet? What's that word for

900
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: hunting feathers? Plumage, plumage mark? What is the word for that?

901
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: Isn't there like a not plenary but like feather hunters?

902
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: So oh of shorebirds, yeah, like beautiful shorebirds. You know,

903
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: people would want the feathers to decorate like like honestly,

904
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: to decorate hats. And there were people that made living

905
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: shooting beautiful shorebirds, herons whatever to get togethers um and

906
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: there they you know, you addressed it specifically, like the

907
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: market for big game was there was a market for meat.

908
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: So they're addressing the meat thing. There's a market for

909
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: feathers on sather things, so they addressed like that market, like,

910
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: can't sell those feathers because that's what people are after.

911
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: So it might leave room for like the things you

912
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: can sell weren't things they were trying to address. Like

913
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: if deer were being driven to extinction by cape hunters,

914
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,919
Speaker 1: they probably address selling capes. But this wasn't the case.

915
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: It could be something to do with meat. Would be

916
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: harder to track the source. It's just meat. But if

917
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: somebody's trying to sell up drop double drop time buck,

918
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy to be in today's day and age,

919
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: easier to try and figure out who got that sucker,

920
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: came for whatnot? That's driving me crazy. It's like plenary

921
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: plan it's something I'll give. I'll give someone chapters bitcoin

922
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: to whoever can figure out what the hell that word is.

923
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: It's not the plumage deal. That's a that's a good word,

924
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: but that's not the word. Come on, someone find find it.

925
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: I would type in something along the lines of millinary

926
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: that it's not plenary specific to you Chester, how much

927
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: bitcoin you're gonna give kel Well, I think it's specific

928
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: to hats. Yeah, the feather hats people back then at

929
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: the turn of the century like feathered caps, and they

930
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: were shooting shore birds to near extinction. Some of the

931
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: big places that became like Wetland's refuges were made. Refuges

932
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: is protected from the millinary what's the word millinary? The

933
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: millinary trade? Try this went on, you can you can

934
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: have you can weigh in on this. As a game

935
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: Ward former game Ward, it was it's pretty caught and dry.

936
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: But a guy from Maryland rights and this is this

937
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: is funny. This is a good one got from Maryland.

938
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: Justin from Maryland writes in about a disagreement between his

939
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: hunting club members. So when you go, he says, this

940
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: is true in Maryland, but this is true everywhere. It's

941
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: called it's something or another. Kell tells if you go,

942
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: like right now fall comes around, you decide to go

943
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: hunt migratory waterfowl, you will be presented with a set

944
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: of questions about what happened to you last year when

945
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: you went hunting. It'll be like ducks zero to five,

946
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: five to twenty and higher whatever to help geese, like

947
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: what you get right, and you get down and you'll

948
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: get into weird stuff and be like coots and rails,

949
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, zero to five and you check just trying

950
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: to get a sense of what all you got. What's

951
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: that called hip? Yeah, that's the Harvest Information Program. Yeah, yep. Yeah,

952
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: sometimes have dubs on there too. Any of the migratories,

953
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: they're just trying to figure out what's going on. But

954
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: apparently in Maryland they have either either justin here is

955
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: confusing Maryland's own thing with the federal thing, or Maryland

956
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: does their own thing. But he says he's belongs to

957
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: a duck club and Maryland has a questionnaire. He says,

958
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: in his duck camp, there are two sets of opinions

959
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: about how to handle this questionnaire. Camp number one is

960
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: that you lie and say you got fewer than you did,

961
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: because the DNR, the Department Natural Resources there will look

962
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: and be, oh, not that many geese got killed last year.

963
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: Let's allow everyone to kill more. Now. Camp two is

964
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: you lie and say you got more than you got,

965
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: because then the d n I will think, geez, if

966
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 1: they're killing that many geese, there must be a lot

967
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: of geese. We should let him kill more. His camp

968
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: is why not just tell him how many geese you

969
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: got and we'll let them figure it out. And that's

970
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: the camp. A guy should be got a game that

971
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: we don't understand the game or the system, but we

972
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: got a game to sis. It's clear by that explanation.

973
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: They don't understand that. It's like, like, the one thing

974
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: we all agree on here is we're gonna gain the system.

975
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: How to do that is where we find discord. All right,

976
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: here's another listener feedback. It's not really a question. It's

977
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: more like a I don't know what you call it.

978
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: You can decide eric what we call This guy writes

979
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: in he lives in Gloucesters. How you say that Gloucester, Gloucester, Massachusetts.

980
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: He calls it taxi Chusetts. He doesn't taxi Chusetts. And

981
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: here's this problem, and this is legitimate. Gripe I got

982
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 1: his back on this freshwater licenses. So if you're in Massachusetts,

983
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: historically you need it. You didn't need a freshwater fishing license.

984
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: The freshwater fishing license sales went to fund the state

985
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: Phishing Game Agency. And as we've covered a million times,

986
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: and I'll say it one more time, your state fishing

987
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,439
Speaker 1: game agencies get their revenue to do all the things

988
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: they do um ranging from access enhancement, to law enforcement,

989
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: to disease research, to all the things that go into wildlife,

990
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: making sure we have wildlife, making sure we can access wildlife,

991
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: like all that stuff gets funded by and large through

992
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: excise taxes and license revenues. So the people that buy

993
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing licenses, um, whether they're aware of this

994
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: or even care about this or not, that's what your

995
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: licensed money does. But massive use. It's recently introduced a

996
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: saltwater license. Okay, so this is true of a lot

997
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: of coastal states, a lot of coastal states. Fresh they

998
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: have different freshwater licensed, saltwater license. They introduced saltwater license.

999
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: And I can't believe, I can't believe we didn't hear

1000
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: about this before. The saltwater license money goes into the

1001
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: general fund. And let me back up and say the

1002
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: general state fund. I'll back up and say this, when

1003
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: when a state sells hunting, fishing licenses and other permits

1004
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: and stamps and stuff, they're able to take that money

1005
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: and use it for wildlife management? What you the the

1006
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: federal government has the ability to make sure states don't

1007
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: rob that money. Because you could picture to some guy

1008
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: would be like the highway guy in a state is like,

1009
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: well look at those assholes and fishing game. They got

1010
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: all that money, Let's take it and make a highway.

1011
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: What prevents you from robbing the fishing game agency of

1012
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: their money and using it for non mission work is

1013
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: then you'd be come ineligible for federal matching dollars that

1014
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: come from excise taxes on sporting goods equipment. So they

1015
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: got some muscle there. They're like, if you steal money

1016
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 1: from your fishing if if you the state steals money

1017
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: from your phishing game agency, we're gonna make you regret

1018
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: it by kind of screwing you and not giving you

1019
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: other money that you could have got. So it incentivizes

1020
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: you to leave that money there. But they made a

1021
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: saltwater license and it just goes into the general slush fund.

1022
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: According to this gentleman, it doesn't go into funding fishing game.

1023
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 1: And he's basically like what gives I don't know what.

1024
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: It sounds stupid to me. You lost, like stay to

1025
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: do this all the time, Like I see this legislation

1026
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: all the time where it's like there's a bunch of

1027
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,439
Speaker 1: money over here that we could be using for all

1028
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: sorts of other things. Why don't we get some of that?

1029
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: And I know what you just explained about that if

1030
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: I haven't read up on Massachusetts, uh uh, this this

1031
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: particular case from Massachusetts. But Yeah, you gotta find yourself

1032
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: a state lawmaker that wants wants to write this situation,

1033
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: because yeah, that that's a bunch of crap. If you're fishing,

1034
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 1: dollars don't go to fishing, they go to, you know,

1035
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 1: something like a school lunch program. You're out there catching lunch. Yeah,

1036
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: And I think it comes down to, you know, not

1037
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: every state has a separate A lot of states get

1038
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: their funding through general funds, um state coffers, through general

1039
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: taxes and everything. So it would be curious to know

1040
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: how Massachusetts rates with that, you know, for all, like

1041
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: there could be some complexifying issues like how Missouri has

1042
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: that license plate tax that helps fund wild but yeah,

1043
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: or you know, look at Oregon for a pretty good example.

1044
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: Their fishing wildlife enforcement is under the Oregon State Police,

1045
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: So I don't know what percentage they get from Oregon

1046
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: Fishing Wildlife, Oregon Department Fishing Wildlife. But um, in comparison,

1047
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: you know in Idaho where I worked, there was it

1048
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: was just straight up licensed dollars. There was no general

1049
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: fund money. And so what you were referring to before

1050
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: was PR and DJ Pittman, Robinson and Dingle Johnson, which

1051
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: are those federal excise taxes and usually it's at a

1052
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 1: three to one. For every one dollar UM the state

1053
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: puts forth, it gets three dollars matching. But pr DJ

1054
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: can't be used for law enforcement. Oh yeah, you have

1055
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: to use your license revenue for law enforcement. Yep. Okay,

1056
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a promise to listeners if this is

1057
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: totally If this is totally wrong, you won't be hearing this.

1058
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 1: If it's at least right enough to warrant the discussion

1059
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: we're having, you will hear it. It's fair. Okay, yeah, uh, okay.

1060
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: You went to work for Trout Unlimited. I did you

1061
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: got involved in samon sam in a steel Head primary

1062
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: scope of work? Lay it out for me. What does

1063
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: the sculpt work like your job? When you apply for

1064
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 1: your job, what was the job to script? Yeah, so

1065
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 1: the job title was North Idaho Field Coordinator. Basically it

1066
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: was just in summary UM policy work, outreach and engagement

1067
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: work all associated with salmon and steel head throughout the

1068
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: snake of a basin. There's a little bit of my

1069
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: work plan, my annual work plan that is dedicated to

1070
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: what we refer to is upcountry UM protections. So part

1071
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: of what UM the portion of trout and limited that

1072
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: I work for is the Angler Conservation Program, and so

1073
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: we do all the outreach and engagement and policy stuff

1074
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: in addition to our other staff. But that's the crux

1075
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: of what we do. So a combination of cold water

1076
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: fisheries related UM policy UM as well as like I said,

1077
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: public lands protections and so those up up country protections

1078
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: would be UM what is affectionately called in the clear

1079
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 1: Water basin UM the Great Burn, So just an area

1080
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: there and but then primarily my day in and day

1081
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: out stuff is focused on SAM and a steel head

1082
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: throughout the Snake River basin. And of course now there's

1083
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: much more focus with Representative Mike Simpson's recent release of

1084
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: his proposal, the Northwestern Transition. Yeah, and we're gonna be

1085
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 1: uh in a moment here we're gonna be joined by

1086
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: Congresson Mike Simpson from Idah. How uh He's gonna lay

1087
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: out this very UM ambitious, complicated, costly but I would

1088
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: argue like extremely important to consider and pursue a version

1089
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: of UM with all necessary tweaks made, but like to

1090
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 1: move to to pursue a version of this meaning UM

1091
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 1: the Snake River damn dilemma that we I would like

1092
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: to see it that we switched to being um, yes,

1093
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: those damns have to go. How do we do it? Yeah? Yeah,

1094
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: and we do it as painlessly as possible. And I

1095
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: think that this is you know, I'm sure there's any more.

1096
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: He's proposing a version of that, being like, it's got

1097
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: to happen. Um, we're in the driver's seat. Let's make up.

1098
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: Let's make a palpable version for ourselves. How did you

1099
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: before he comes out? How did you like, because you

1100
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: introduced me to this and you you approached us about

1101
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: having this conversation, how how did you guys? Worlds kind

1102
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 1: of collide on this. Uh so UM trout a limit.

1103
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 1: It has been dedicated to restoring the lower snakes. So

1104
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: when we refer to the lower snake, we're talking about

1105
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: approximately a hundred forty miles stretch from the confluence of

1106
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 1: the Columbia River down by Try States Washington up to

1107
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: um the Lewiston Clarkston area of Idaho, h forty aisles

1108
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 1: of what is now a damned river for UM. Federally

1109
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: UM managed hydro dams create an immense slack water and

1110
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: so way back in the nineties, right shortly after the

1111
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: listing of most of the species within the Snake River basin.

1112
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: So we have saki that are listed as endangered starting

1113
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: in ninety one and then up through with spring and

1114
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 1: summer chinook and fall schinook in the in the mid nineties,

1115
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: and then ninety seven kind of was the end of

1116
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: it with steelhead being listed in the Snake River basin

1117
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: has threatened and so UM way since that time try

1118
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 1: to limit it has been UM of the opinion UM

1119
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: and rightfully so or a science based organization that the

1120
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: removal of the four lower Snake dams would provide the

1121
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: best opportunity for recovery and restoration to those some monded

1122
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 1: species throughout the Snake River basin. So since ninety seven,

1123
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: this is something that we've been dedicated to in a

1124
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 1: variety of ways. UM. You know, not only the portion

1125
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: of the organization that I work for. UM. We have

1126
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: the water and Habitat program that does a lot of

1127
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: the restoration work. People are very familiar with with with

1128
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,759
Speaker 1: what we do at Trout Unlimited, you know, and restoring

1129
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 1: habitat throughout the Upper Salmon Basin in particular, and so

1130
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: UM now we have found, you know, a champion, you know,

1131
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: for these fish and Representative Simpson. UM. And I think

1132
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: that the really great part of his proposal is that

1133
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: it's broad. It's not just focused on salmon or steelhead.

1134
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: It's in it's focused on the entire region, you know,

1135
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: looking outside of the borders of his not only is

1136
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 1: congressional district, but outside the borders of Idaho throughout the Northwest.

1137
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 1: And how this can benefit everybody that is involved or

1138
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 1: could be impacted by it. And I think that's the

1139
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: most incredible thing, and that's really important to trout unlimited.

1140
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, restoring and recovering salmon and steel had

1141
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: throughout that basin, but making sure of that all the

1142
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 1: stakeholders come out whole. So yeah, do you guys, how

1143
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 1: many I know you don't know the entire history because

1144
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 1: you were busy doing your other job. Um, how often

1145
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 1: do is something like this come along? Like this proposal,

1146
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 1: a proposal like this, This is a once in a

1147
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: lifetime proposal. Yeah. I mean, here's the fact of the matter.

1148
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,759
Speaker 1: So Ice Horror is the lowest snake or the lowest

1149
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 1: dam on the Snake River. Um. It was completed in

1150
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: ninety two. The furthest upstream uh damn on the Lower

1151
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: Snake is Lower Granite, which was completed in nine. Through

1152
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,759
Speaker 1: the course of construction on those four Lower Snake River dance,

1153
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: we saw a very um steep declines in salmon populations

1154
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: and steel a populations that are it's clearly correlated to

1155
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 1: the hydro development, okay, and just have not seen any

1156
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: recovery of those numbers. Despite millions and millions of dollars annually,

1157
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, into um mitigate efforts throughout the hydro system,

1158
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 1: throughout the basin and restoration, we still don't see it recover.

1159
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:09,959
Speaker 1: And so here here comes a congressman from Idaho, UM

1160
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 1: that hopefully will here. You know, he truly is a

1161
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: conservation champion, UM and it's pretty remarkable of his accomplishments already.

1162
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: But here he brings forth this proposal that literally, like

1163
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:25,479
Speaker 1: I said, encompasses the entire Northwest that quite frankly could

1164
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And it's people,

1165
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: just look, it's a hundred forty miles of river that

1166
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 1: you know is damned. Well, then we we look what's

1167
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:41,719
Speaker 1: above those damns, and how huge that landscape is, you know, humongous, humongous, Watershed.

1168
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: When we start talking about the clear water, the lock Saw,

1169
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 1: the Sellway, the Middle Fork, the Upper Salmon, and and

1170
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: a lot of it is still in Christine habitat are

1171
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: Christine condition about of the historical spawning and rearing habitat

1172
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: is still intact. And the Snake River basin that's something

1173
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 1: I had thought of. That's a good point. Yeah. And

1174
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: I mean you're like, you're you're you're restoring access to

1175
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: something that's ready to roll. Yeah. And and and Cal's

1176
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: heard me make the comparison, and and it's it's it's

1177
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: my my blind date comparison, you know. Is that Hey man,

1178
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: there's this, you know, I'm scheduled to go on a

1179
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: blind date, you know, tonight, and the place settings is

1180
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: all set, there's beautiful silver, nice bottle of wine. But

1181
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: my date, my date doesn't show up. Well, I'll come

1182
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: back tomorrow. And my date doesn't show up. And the

1183
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 1: same thing is with the habitat there, you know, and

1184
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 1: or the table is set, it's beautiful, like it's gonna

1185
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: be a good date tonight, but my partner doesn't show up,

1186
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,640
Speaker 1: you know. And so that's the way you have to

1187
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: look at it, you know. And when you have that

1188
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: much intact habitat, it is beyond approach to not give

1189
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: it the opportunity, those fish the opportunity to really maximize it,

1190
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, And that's what we're looking to do. UM.

1191
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: Much of this based off of when we look at UM,

1192
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: how salmon are doing. And this is where people really

1193
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: get confused. They're like, well, jeez, we're still fishing for them. Man.

1194
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 1: We had a great run, you know, just a couple

1195
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: of years ago, which we've had our ups and downs. UM.

1196
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: A lot of that opportunity, all of that opportunity is

1197
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 1: based on hatch reproduction. About thirty three million salmon and

1198
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:26,440
Speaker 1: steelhead smolts get released into the Snake River basin annually. UM.

1199
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: But when you look at what we refer to as

1200
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 1: a smolt to adult return ratios, and so that's just

1201
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 1: the simple idea that a hundred smolts outmigrate to the

1202
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: ocean and one adult comes back. That's the simplest way

1203
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 1: to do the math. That's one all right, UM, one percent.

1204
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 1: If you have one of anything, you're not reproducing, right,

1205
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: And so many of our populations are there now throughout

1206
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 1: the Snake River basin. UM teetering just at you know,

1207
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: UH spring and summer chinook or teaching at point nine

1208
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:04,799
Speaker 1: percent UM the steel head summer steel head to inhabit

1209
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 1: the Snaker basin are just over UM one percent, and

1210
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 1: so we're not making what we refer to as two percent,

1211
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,599
Speaker 1: which is the maintenance level. And so we strive through

1212
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: lots of different UH venues, whether it's the Northwest Power

1213
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 1: Planning Council UM or recently the Columbia Basin Collaborative, there's

1214
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of agreement on what the metrics should be.

1215
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: S a rs are that one metric from two to

1216
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: six percent with an average of four percent is the

1217
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: is the goal? Right down the Stank River basin, we're

1218
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: not meeting that. And when you really start to look

1219
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: outside of the basin and look at rivers that are

1220
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 1: below the lower Snake and don't and fish that don't

1221
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 1: have to pass four dams, you see much better s

1222
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: a rs. You know, above two percent, you know, upwards

1223
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: of five and almost close to six percent. So lower

1224
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,559
Speaker 1: in in the Columbia, you know, and this is this

1225
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: goes back to this other idea of well it's all

1226
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: ocean conditions. It's all ocean conditions. Look at every other

1227
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 1: population throughout the range of salmon and steel heads. Steelhead, well,

1228
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: it is partly ocean conditions. Ocean conditions are something that

1229
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: we as mankind can no longer control. Right now, we

1230
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:20,719
Speaker 1: can control the hydro system UM, and we have tried

1231
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 1: to do that to increase s a RS, but haven't

1232
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: haven't figured out that that magic bullet. And so here

1233
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:32,679
Speaker 1: comes to Representative Simpson with this bold um all encompassing plan,

1234
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: you know that takes everything into account. There's a question

1235
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 1: that comes up all the time, Like I saw it,

1236
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 1: a bunch of like why aren't hatcheries uh at performing

1237
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 1: at capacity? Like we're not running the camp the full

1238
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 1: capacity of our hatcheries. If we did that, then we'd

1239
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: have enough. Yeah and so, and that comes back to

1240
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 1: this idea that thirty three million Smoltz isn't enough, right,

1241
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:05,560
Speaker 1: and that we need more. But hatchery fish underperformed wildfish

1242
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: right now as it is, so they have even lower

1243
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: essa RS than what we see UM in wildfish. Never

1244
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: mind that the the figure that is used to evaluate

1245
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: the productivity of the hatcheries is the adult returns. That

1246
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 1: is what UM. The funding mexicum mechanism for most of

1247
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:30,600
Speaker 1: the hatcheries throughout the basin, which is approximately seventeen or

1248
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 1: so UM. It through comes through Lower Snake camp Um,

1249
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: which is funded partially through Bonneville Power UM, the main

1250
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: electric and entity that operates the whole hydra system. But

1251
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: adult returns are how they are evaluated, and not once

1252
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: have they met their adult return goals. So just by

1253
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 1: increasing more smolts it's likely because of the essay rs,

1254
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: because of the impact of the hydra SYSM, it's not

1255
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 1: gonna roof, you know, and it doesn't just by producing

1256
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 1: more hatchery fish doesn't get us to recovery or restoration,

1257
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 1: and we can spend a lot of money on hatchery fish. Yeah, yeah,

1258
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: I mean it's annually. Lower snake comp in the Stinker

1259
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:18,560
Speaker 1: Ever basin is funded at thirty one million dollars annually,

1260
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:21,640
Speaker 1: and that's just flushing fish down the system, you know,

1261
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 1: and hope that there's gonna be opportunity, and you just

1262
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 1: want to be there when they're doing that, because the

1263
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 1: bull trout fishing is unbelievable. Catch these balls that are

1264
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:38,679
Speaker 1: just there, uh spewing salmon small and steel had small

1265
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,919
Speaker 1: out when you when you pick them up, it's amazing

1266
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: expensive Belgians. Yeah, I was talking to a a guy in

1267
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:47,800
Speaker 1: a bar and catch can one time, and he was

1268
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: working at a hatchery, a coho hatchery, and cohoes, you know,

1269
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: they stay in the in the natals spawning stream an

1270
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 1: extra year, right, so um, when they go out there,

1271
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: pretty big. They spend a lot longer in the river.

1272
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 1: So when you have a coh hatchery, you need to

1273
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: rear the co host a lot longer than some other

1274
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 1: salmon's that that that don't need as much time. And

1275
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, and sort of like in stream incubation. He

1276
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: was saying, they'd go out and and uh let some

1277
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: of the release some of these hatchery releases into the ocean,

1278
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: and these humpbacks, humpback of whales would get onto that,

1279
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: he said. You'd see that mouth come up, you know,

1280
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 1: and he'd be like, well, there goes a quarter million

1281
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 1: dollars a quarter million dollars or so we're gonna jump

1282
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: over and talk now. And thanks for the introduction here

1283
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:57,799
Speaker 1: talking now to Congressman Mike Simpson from Ida. Hope, Oh Okay,

1284
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: without much further ado, we are joined to buy Congressman

1285
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: Mike Simpson from Idaho. Uh, Congressman Simthic. You lay out

1286
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 1: for us a little bit about some of the some

1287
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 1: of the issues you've been involved in in your career

1288
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: that are pertinent hunters and anglers and and outdoors people

1289
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: like some of the areas in which you've played and

1290
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 1: influenced the world we live in. Sure, you have to

1291
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:25,599
Speaker 1: remember that in Idaho, most people live here because they

1292
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 1: love our outdoors, They love our public lands, They love

1293
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 1: the fish and hunting and recreate in uh in our

1294
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 1: public lands. So I've been very active and trying to

1295
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 1: maintain those public lands. Whether it was through the Boulder

1296
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: White Clouds initiative that created the wilderness for the Boulder

1297
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 1: White Clouds, it had been wilderness study area for years,

1298
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 1: and I came to conclusion and somebody need to make

1299
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,600
Speaker 1: a determination what was going to be wilderness and what

1300
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: was going to be released for multiple use. So we

1301
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:53,639
Speaker 1: passed that bill. It took about fifteen years to get

1302
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 1: it done, but we got that done. And then one

1303
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 1: of the things I think I'm proud of Stu is

1304
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: the Great American Outdoor res Act the past just last

1305
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 1: year or year four last I guess, uh and uh

1306
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:08,679
Speaker 1: you know that deals with land and water conservation fund

1307
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 1: and fully funding it. That also maintains access, and that

1308
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: was one of the important parts of this, the access

1309
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: for hunters and anglers and those types of things. You

1310
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:19,559
Speaker 1: can love the public lands, but if you can't have

1311
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 1: access to them, it doesn't really mean much. So I

1312
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 1: think that was one of the strongest environmental bills has

1313
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 1: probably passed since the Wilderness Acts. So I've been actively

1314
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: involved in these issues for a number of years, both

1315
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,680
Speaker 1: relative to Idaho and the nation as a whole. And

1316
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:40,719
Speaker 1: now you're setting your setting your sights on um helping

1317
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 1: us through making a plan about what we're gonna do

1318
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,280
Speaker 1: about some of the damns we have on the major

1319
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 1: salmon rivers in the West. Uh. I want to get

1320
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:54,559
Speaker 1: to I want to get through a little bit of

1321
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 1: history for people first. But can you um, you know,

1322
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:02,480
Speaker 1: encapsulate what you're what you're proposing, How you became interested

1323
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 1: in this subject. Sure, you know this has been a

1324
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 1: debate that's been going on for twenty five or thirty

1325
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: years in the Pacific Northwest. You're seeing Idaho salmon runs

1326
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,679
Speaker 1: declined substantially. In fact, they're on the path to extinction

1327
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,439
Speaker 1: if we don't do anything else. The other issue is

1328
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 1: the Bonneville Power administration and the fact that at one

1329
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 1: time they were the lowest cost producer of energy in

1330
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest. And so consequently all your rural electrics

1331
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 1: and others used Bonneville Power power because it was the

1332
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: cheapest they could get. There no longer the cheapest in

1333
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest. So on the one hand, how do

1334
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 1: you make Bonneville Power sustainable for the future and competitive

1335
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:41,840
Speaker 1: for the future. UH, And one of the one of

1336
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: the things that has to be done is to end

1337
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:47,759
Speaker 1: the salmon wars, the endless litigation that that occurs about

1338
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 1: salmon recovery in the Pacific Northwest. And UH to do

1339
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 1: that if you're gonna return Idaho salmon runs that are

1340
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 1: on the endangered list, almost every fish biologist that I've

1341
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: talked to says that you're gonna have to remove the

1342
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: lower Sneak River ams. So we put out a concept

1343
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: that does that. But of course, what you say you're

1344
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 1: gonna read you're gonna retire those dams or remove those dams.

1345
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:11,800
Speaker 1: Then you have to look at what are the value

1346
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: of the dams, and what does that do to the stakeholders,

1347
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,640
Speaker 1: and how do you compensate the stakeholders or put them

1348
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 1: in a better position than they were before. So if

1349
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 1: you can do that, if you can read, if you

1350
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 1: can make the stakeholders hold again, if you can remove

1351
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: the dams to help restore the salmon, you can end

1352
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 1: the lawsuits, and if you can make b P a

1353
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 1: competitive that's a huge task. UH. It's something that we've

1354
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 1: been working on, working on for about three years, and

1355
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: we've had about three meetings, maybe as many as five

1356
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 1: hundred meetings with different constituency groups about the issues that

1357
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 1: surround that. UH. And that's that's what we've been doing

1358
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: over the last three years. We released a concept in

1359
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 1: UH in February so that people could talk about it. UH.

1360
01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: As I said, this is a discussion that has to

1361
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 1: happen UH, and I'm glad we started it and now

1362
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 1: we'll see where it goes. Would you mind helping, UH

1363
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 1: help listeners understand why the damns were put in place.

1364
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of these things I think were

1365
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: Now there's such a you know, a widely held predominant viewpoint.

1366
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 1: It seems that you know, a widespread acknowledgement that they're

1367
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 1: very problematic. UM. But they were built, Yes, why were

1368
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 1: they built and and what was the conversation about what

1369
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 1: was the debate when they were being built, like like,

1370
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:33,679
Speaker 1: how well did people anticipate the you know, the havoc

1371
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 1: that would be wrought by constructing the dams. Well, you know,

1372
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 1: it's interesting if you go back to the the Ice

1373
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 1: Harbor Dam, which is the first one that you reach

1374
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 1: after you leave the Columbian Head up the Snake River,

1375
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 1: the first of the four that was authorized in the

1376
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,760
Speaker 1: Army Corps of Engineers requested funding for it every year

1377
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 1: in their budget request. Congress refused to fund it. And

1378
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: if you read the statement of the chairman of the

1379
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 1: Appropriations Committee when he was asked why they didn't put

1380
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 1: funding in for the Ice Harbor Dam, he said because

1381
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 1: building this damn would be the eventual extinction of a species,

1382
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: and that's something that they couldn't comprehend. So it was

1383
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,559
Speaker 1: no one clear back then or at least suspected that

1384
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 1: that would be would be a problem. But then two

1385
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: years later, uh to Democratic sentators, one from Oregon and

1386
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: one from from Washington, slipped a million dollars into an

1387
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 1: appropriation conference report, and that started iceho Harbor, and that

1388
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 1: started the domino of the other four damns. So it's

1389
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,640
Speaker 1: been a it's been a challenge from the start, and

1390
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: we've known what the consequences were, but we've always thrown

1391
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: up our hands and said, hey, we can replace these

1392
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 1: fish with hatchery fish and stuff. And now we find

1393
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:43,639
Speaker 1: out the hatchery fish aren't the same as well salmon

1394
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 1: and returning the salmon uh is something that that is

1395
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 1: important to me. I think it's important to Idaho. And

1396
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 1: when I look at h the impact that the damn staff,

1397
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 1: they were built for power. That was the reason these are.

1398
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 1: There's a not flood controlled dams. These are just uto

1399
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,720
Speaker 1: the river dams and they produce power. They also have

1400
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 1: the benefit of being able to take barging from Lewis

1401
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 1: to Idaho all the way down to Portland, mostly into

1402
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: the Tri Cities, but then onto Portland through the Columbia

1403
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,200
Speaker 1: River dams. UH. Those are two benefits that the dams,

1404
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 1: that the dams have. But when you look at the

1405
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 1: power production, now there are other ways of produced power.

1406
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Someone told me once and I agree with this, that

1407
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, everything we do on the Columbia and Lower

1408
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 1: Snake River we can do differently if we choose to

1409
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 1: do it. That's our choice. Salmon don't have an option.

1410
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 1: They actually near river, and right now they don't have

1411
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 1: a river because of the dams. In fact, it's almost

1412
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:39,799
Speaker 1: a misnomer to call it the Lower Snake River because

1413
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 1: the river is really just a pool, a series of

1414
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 1: pools behind these damns, slack water pools, which harm the

1415
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 1: salmon because of the increased water temperature. The velocity of

1416
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 1: the water coming down doesn't flush them down to the river.

1417
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 1: It takes about three times as long for a for

1418
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: a smoke to get to the ocean as it used to.

1419
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: That puts them in more danger. Are predators and other

1420
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: other factors that affect them. That's why fish biologists will

1421
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 1: tell you the only way you're gonna restore these salmon

1422
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 1: is to is to remove these dams. The way they

1423
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 1: generally measure the success of a salmon run or the

1424
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 1: health of one, is called the stars the small to

1425
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 1: adult ratio it needs to be It would preferably be

1426
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 1: between four and six. Anything above two and two is

1427
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: a sustainable run. And if you look at the salmon

1428
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:28,840
Speaker 1: that come up the Columbia River and passed the first

1429
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 1: three dams and then go into the John Day Drainage,

1430
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:33,720
Speaker 1: there are numbers about three point five. That's a healthy run.

1431
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 1: Once they passed the fourth dam and go into the

1432
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 1: Acama drainage, it's about two point four, which is still

1433
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 1: healthy and sustainable. But once the Idaho salmon go over

1434
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: those next four dams, their stars rate is about point

1435
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 1: eight and that's a path to extinction. And that's something

1436
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 1: we have not been able to change over the years

1437
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 1: with everything we've tried. What other industry, Like when you

1438
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 1: mentioned that the dams were put in place, um, primarily

1439
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:02,680
Speaker 1: for electricity, meaning if it wasn't for the energy conversation,

1440
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 1: it probably wouldn't have become a conversation. But then the

1441
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 1: dams get put in place, and then it winds up

1442
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 1: having sort of you know, inadvertent or subsequent effects on things.

1443
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 1: Meaning I'm guessing irrigation probably is a thing you mentioned,

1444
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 1: barge traffic. Uh, how many industries you know? I don't

1445
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 1: think it needs to be an exhaustive list, but like,

1446
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 1: what what all industries would need to make an adjustment

1447
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 1: or be have their their concerns addressed in order to

1448
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 1: begin dealing with this problem. And if you if we

1449
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: look beyond power, but just other ways in which communities

1450
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 1: have grown up around the water's edge, and I don't

1451
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: even really know all the ways in which it could

1452
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 1: impact industry and people if we were to pull this

1453
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:47,560
Speaker 1: feet off. Yeah, there's there are a number of industries

1454
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:48,880
Speaker 1: and we've tried to look at all of them. Like

1455
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 1: I said, that's why we've had the three to five

1456
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: meetings that we've had with different interest groups and stakeholders

1457
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:56,080
Speaker 1: about the impact of removing those dams. You know, you

1458
01:29:56,120 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 1: look at the lower Snake River, they have, uh there's

1459
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 1: marinas and other types of recreational outfits that that operate

1460
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 1: in in those waters. The city of Lewiston has a

1461
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: port there. The port is about I don't know, it's

1462
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: about a one point nine million dollar annual budget and

1463
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 1: employee several people, and so, I mean that's important industry

1464
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 1: in Lewiston, but it's mostly the grain producers in the

1465
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:25,840
Speaker 1: Poluce area around Lewiston that that barge their grain down

1466
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 1: the river. And it is the cheapest way to transport

1467
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:31,800
Speaker 1: transport gain grain. You can do it cheaper than you

1468
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 1: can on trucks or by rail. So you'd have to

1469
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 1: make accommodation for all of these individuals, and what we're

1470
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 1: trying to do is what can loisten be in the future.

1471
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,719
Speaker 1: How can we make them hold again? Uh? And we've

1472
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: we've thought of some ideas, but mostly it's going to

1473
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 1: be up to them, uh, their future. And and really

1474
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 1: the question I asked people is we need to be

1475
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:54,759
Speaker 1: looking down the road about what we want to Pacific

1476
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: Northwest to look like in twenty five or fifty years,

1477
01:30:57,160 --> 01:30:59,680
Speaker 1: because the decisions we make today are going to make

1478
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 1: those terminations. Do we care about salmon? Uh? Do we

1479
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: care if they come back? Now? I will tell you

1480
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 1: that if you talk to a lot of Washington grain

1481
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,680
Speaker 1: farmers and others who are affected by this, by this

1482
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 1: uh these this damn removal because they pump out of

1483
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 1: the Snake River to arrogate fields in Washington and so forth,

1484
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:18,599
Speaker 1: I can understand why I don't really care about Idaho.

1485
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:22,719
Speaker 1: Salmon doesn't affect them. They're salmon are back in healthy numbers. Uh.

1486
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: It's in Idaho that's paying the cost. And I've said

1487
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: this a number of times. The more I look at this,

1488
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 1: the more I look at the fact that Idaho is

1489
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:32,599
Speaker 1: paying all the costs of these dams in Washington and

1490
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 1: we're not getting much of the benefit. The benefit is

1491
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: the lower cost transportation which we can replace and do

1492
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 1: it so that we can actually get it down the

1493
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 1: river or down to the Tri Cities or to Portland

1494
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 1: cheaper than they do on barges today. If we're willing

1495
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,600
Speaker 1: to look at a different way of doing it. We

1496
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 1: get about eight percent of the power that's produced to

1497
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 1: those damns comes to Idaho. And that's all. But yet

1498
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,760
Speaker 1: we flush four hundred and eight seven thousand acre feet

1499
01:31:57,760 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 1: of water down the year, every down the river every

1500
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 1: year to er or to flush salmon past these four dams.

1501
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:06,599
Speaker 1: And the one thing that's not doing it's recovering salmon. Uh,

1502
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 1: that's problematic. That's four and eight seven thousand acre feet

1503
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: of water that's not available in Idaho to either recharge

1504
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: our aquifer or additional irrigation or other things that we

1505
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:18,760
Speaker 1: just flushed down the river. How do you account for

1506
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:21,760
Speaker 1: the fact that there's still damns below the dams? You know?

1507
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I could envision in my mind the best

1508
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 1: case scenario would be that um this endeavors successful to

1509
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 1: ultimately we get the public support we need and we

1510
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:35,839
Speaker 1: get the money we need to begin this very ambitious

1511
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: project of dismantling these things and restoring salmon runs like

1512
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: I'd love to see it. But when I hear this,

1513
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 1: the first thing that pops in my mind is, well,

1514
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:45,599
Speaker 1: what about the fact that you still got a whole

1515
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 1: bunch of them below there? Unless this sets a template

1516
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 1: or creates a path forward for people to comprehend removing

1517
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 1: more dams, Um, how does it? How can it fix

1518
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:58,800
Speaker 1: anything when you still have the Columbia Right? Yeah, A

1519
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,519
Speaker 1: lot of people ask me, isn't this slippery slow to

1520
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,720
Speaker 1: remove more dams? What we do in this proposal and

1521
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: the way you end the lawsuits and the endless litigation

1522
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:09,679
Speaker 1: that goes on as you relcense all the remaining dams

1523
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 1: for the period of thirty fifty years depending on when

1524
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 1: their license comes due, automatically re licensed them. Because most

1525
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: of the lawsuits occur around dams and damn re licensing

1526
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 1: and that type of thing you would you would re

1527
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 1: license them. They would be exempt from the Endangered Species Act,

1528
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:29,120
Speaker 1: Clean Water Act, and the environment National Environmental Policy Act UH,

1529
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 1: and that takes away almost all of the lawsuits and

1530
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,560
Speaker 1: in fact, most environmental groups that are UH. Some of

1531
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 1: the proponents of the of the lawsuits and have been

1532
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 1: in the past have said Okay, we can live with

1533
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 1: that as long as we get rid of these these

1534
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: four dams. But if you look at the numbers, as

1535
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 1: I said earlier, and the smalls coming up the river,

1536
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: the first four dams on the Columbia River, yes they

1537
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:51,479
Speaker 1: have an impact on salmon, but they don't endanger them.

1538
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:54,679
Speaker 1: They still have a healthy stars rate once they passed

1539
01:33:54,720 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: those four dams. Eight dams is just too many. That's

1540
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,599
Speaker 1: why the numbers fall through the floor on the Snake

1541
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: or or the the Idaho salmon runs. Yeah, that's uh.

1542
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 1: It's interesting to me, um, the point you just made

1543
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:15,040
Speaker 1: about trying to in sort of aligning. You mentioned having

1544
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 1: all these different stakeholders and seats at the table. Um,

1545
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:22,440
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that as a way to alleviate

1546
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:28,680
Speaker 1: concerns that the slippery slope concerns, that you're willing to

1547
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 1: strike a deal like that, and not only that, but

1548
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:36,040
Speaker 1: that that you're saying that environmental groups would be comfortable

1549
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 1: with an arrangement like that, they'd be recomfortable with the

1550
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 1: idea of tabling conversations about Columbia dams in order to

1551
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 1: make a deal to do this ambitious plan on the

1552
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:48,679
Speaker 1: on the Snake, like that that's that there's widespread comfort. Yeah,

1553
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:51,160
Speaker 1: there is. Most of the environmental community that we've been

1554
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:52,880
Speaker 1: working with, and like I say, the ones that are

1555
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 1: generally behind the lawsuits or have been in the past.

1556
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 1: Both the environmental groups, the state of Oregon, the the

1557
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:03,360
Speaker 1: Indian and tribes have all said yeah, this is okay. Now,

1558
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:06,200
Speaker 1: I will have to tell you there are a number

1559
01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:09,839
Speaker 1: of what I call extreme left environmental groups from Washington

1560
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 1: and Oregon who have come out and said they're they're

1561
01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:13,920
Speaker 1: opposed to this. They want to return salmon, they want

1562
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: to damn's gone, but they're posted this proposal because they

1563
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 1: don't want to give up their right to suit. Well,

1564
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:21,160
Speaker 1: that pretty much tells you what their game plan is

1565
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:24,639
Speaker 1: for the future. Uh, it's gonna be lawsuit after lawsuit

1566
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 1: after lawsuit. And I wish we would spend more money

1567
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:30,599
Speaker 1: trying to restore salmon runs and less money in court.

1568
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:32,600
Speaker 1: To tell you the truth, even though I understand that

1569
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: attorney's kids still have to eat. Personally, have you did

1570
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: you grow up as a salmon fisherman an angler? No,

1571
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:45,599
Speaker 1: I didn't. I was never a fisherman. My brother, my

1572
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 1: brother was the fisherman. He was a fly fisherman used

1573
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 1: to tie tie flies, you know, and kick over rocks

1574
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 1: to see what they were eating. And then they take

1575
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:53,960
Speaker 1: me out and say, man, there's so many fish here.

1576
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:56,599
Speaker 1: My arm got sore, and I'd go fishing with Eve,

1577
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 1: and of course there's not a bite. So I decided

1578
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 1: that that I couldn't trust him. But I was never

1579
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 1: I was never the fisherman. I love to eat him.

1580
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:09,840
Speaker 1: He loved to catch him. I imagine that, UM, you

1581
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: can't get away from partisanship on something like this, meaning

1582
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,719
Speaker 1: as I'm sure you know better anybody on the planet,

1583
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:23,439
Speaker 1: some people are gonna go, um, they're Gonnay're gonna look

1584
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:25,759
Speaker 1: at it like it is a particular party in support

1585
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:29,599
Speaker 1: of it. If that's the case, we're into If someone

1586
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 1: else is behind it, we're going to resist it. Do

1587
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:35,200
Speaker 1: you find that when it comes to um an environmental

1588
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 1: issue like this, you know, like fish, um that has

1589
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:43,240
Speaker 1: an industry overlay to it, do you find that that

1590
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 1: partisanship gets worse, that it's kind of that it's alleviated.

1591
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:52,120
Speaker 1: What do you encounter when you're working on this, you know,

1592
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:55,679
Speaker 1: I I find that the partisanship with environmental issues isn't

1593
01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 1: as strong as it is with some other things, other issues. Now,

1594
01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 1: the one challenge in this is that it's going to

1595
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:03,960
Speaker 1: cost about thirty three and a half billion dollars is

1596
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 1: what we estimate to to make the stakeholders hold again,

1597
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 1: to replace the power to do the other things. That's

1598
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 1: the value of the dams. We're the first people to recognize,

1599
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, the idea of taking these damns out has

1600
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 1: been has been considered for by other groups and it's

1601
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 1: always just either take the damns out or don't take

1602
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 1: the damns out. And we're the first people to actually

1603
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:25,400
Speaker 1: put a value on those dams and recognize that they

1604
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 1: do have a value and you're gonna have to replace that.

1605
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:30,639
Speaker 1: I think that's what's got so many people that are

1606
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: anti dam removal concerned is that we've actually put a

1607
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 1: value on it, and they're saying, Okay, how do we

1608
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:39,400
Speaker 1: fight this. This must be a serious consideration. And I've

1609
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:44,760
Speaker 1: had a lot of people suggest that I would say

1610
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 1: that there are not favorably disposed of what we're the

1611
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:50,519
Speaker 1: concept we put out there, but are coming to the

1612
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:52,599
Speaker 1: realization that you know, we can either plan our own

1613
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 1: future and develop our own future, or it can be

1614
01:37:55,439 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 1: planned for us UH and it would be better if

1615
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:01,719
Speaker 1: we if we did it our selves. But I find

1616
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:05,720
Speaker 1: the partisanship kind of Yeah, Republicans and Democrats have a

1617
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:09,679
Speaker 1: difference of opinion on how best to manage our public

1618
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 1: lands and that type of stuff. But when you look

1619
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:15,160
Speaker 1: back at the Boulder White Clouds Wilderness area that I did,

1620
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 1: in the end, it passed without a descending vote, without

1621
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 1: a Republican or a Democrat descending vote in both the

1622
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: House and the Senate. When we did the Great American

1623
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:27,160
Speaker 1: Outdoors Act, uh, it passed by with bipartis and support.

1624
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 1: So when we get right down to it, I think

1625
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:32,479
Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats want the same thing. We have a

1626
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: different opinion about how to get there sometimes. But but

1627
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:40,200
Speaker 1: I I, uh, I'm not worried about the partisanship. Really,

1628
01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 1: do you feel that the proposal that you've worked on

1629
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:47,559
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll tell people how to find the details

1630
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:49,759
Speaker 1: of the proposal. Do you feel the proposal you worked

1631
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 1: on um has turned some opinions or have you Do

1632
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:00,120
Speaker 1: you feel that it winds up being is this the

1633
01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:02,640
Speaker 1: battle line is pretty much the same still or have

1634
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 1: some people come and said, oh uh, this I can

1635
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:11,120
Speaker 1: get on board with previous previous proposals, not for me. Yeah,

1636
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 1: you know, the response we're getting from the public is

1637
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 1: about what we expected when we released it, and it's

1638
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 1: the reason we released it as a concept, not a

1639
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 1: written piece of legislation. When you write a piece of

1640
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:24,680
Speaker 1: when you say i've got a bill here, it's like

1641
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:26,960
Speaker 1: saying I'm ready to go with this. I've done all

1642
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 1: the thought and everything. We released as a concept so

1643
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:32,519
Speaker 1: that people would have time to consider it put have

1644
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:34,720
Speaker 1: their input into it. I'm sure there are things that

1645
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 1: we have not thought about that that others will think

1646
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 1: about for us. And there are questions that need to

1647
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 1: be answered that some people have raised. Uh And that's

1648
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 1: why it's out there as a concept for this public

1649
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 1: debate that that is going on now. Uh So I,

1650
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 1: as I said, I think the reaction is kind of

1651
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:57,040
Speaker 1: about what we expected. We knew that there would be

1652
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:00,479
Speaker 1: a number of people that it would and and insociations

1653
01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:02,519
Speaker 1: and organizations that would say, hell no, we're never going

1654
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:08,240
Speaker 1: to really never gonna remove those damps. I understand that

1655
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,280
Speaker 1: I have sympathy with that position years ago, that's the

1656
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 1: position I was in. But the reality, you know, twenty

1657
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:16,519
Speaker 1: five years ago, if you read some of the articles.

1658
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: When I was Speaker of the House in Idaho, I said,

1659
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:21,920
Speaker 1: damn removal is not an option. I said, we ought

1660
01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 1: to try everything else to restore salmon before we ever

1661
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 1: consider that. Well, in the twenty five years since then,

1662
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:29,240
Speaker 1: we've tried everything else. And if somebody has an idea

1663
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 1: of how you can restore salmon without moving those damps,

1664
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear it. But the problem is is

1665
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:37,439
Speaker 1: we've tried everything so far. Unless I said, every fish

1666
01:40:37,439 --> 01:40:39,720
Speaker 1: biologist that I've talked to says you're gonna have to

1667
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:42,720
Speaker 1: remove those damps if you want to restore Idaho salmon runs.

1668
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,720
Speaker 1: So we knew there would be that reaction from the

1669
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,519
Speaker 1: hell no never sort of group. And I'm not critical

1670
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:51,720
Speaker 1: of them. I just I understand where they're coming from. Uh,

1671
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:54,280
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people who are saying

1672
01:40:54,280 --> 01:40:57,880
Speaker 1: to me, this is interesting. Maybe we ought to step back,

1673
01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 1: put the pitchforks down and talk about this and consider

1674
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:05,120
Speaker 1: the options here. Because as I said, I just talked

1675
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 1: to a group the other day who I who I

1676
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:10,960
Speaker 1: thought would have been uh, pretty firmly against it, and

1677
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:14,559
Speaker 1: they still maybe uh, but they're starting to say, you know,

1678
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:16,439
Speaker 1: maybe we got to plan on our own future instead

1679
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 1: of have someone else planned for it. And when I

1680
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:21,600
Speaker 1: say that, people say I'm trying to threaten people that

1681
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,800
Speaker 1: judge can remove these dams, and that's not true. Judge

1682
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:27,400
Speaker 1: cannot remove these dams. Only Congress can do that. But

1683
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:30,880
Speaker 1: a judge can make it so damned expensive to keep

1684
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:33,320
Speaker 1: these dams that you just have no option but to

1685
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:36,879
Speaker 1: remove them. They could order draw downs or additional spills

1686
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:39,360
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. Two years ago, a judge

1687
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:42,719
Speaker 1: ordered forty acre feet of additional water to be spilled

1688
01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:47,120
Speaker 1: over the dams to help salmon recover. Didn't help recover salmon,

1689
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 1: but it did cost forty million dollars from b p

1690
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:52,000
Speaker 1: A to to do that. Of lost power generation, that

1691
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 1: means the rate payers ended up paying that forty million dollars. So,

1692
01:41:57,000 --> 01:42:00,000
Speaker 1: as I said, that's another aspect of this whole proposed

1693
01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:02,680
Speaker 1: It's not just salmon and dance. It's also the b

1694
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:04,800
Speaker 1: p A trying to keep power rates slow in the

1695
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:08,719
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest that have been growing over the years. And uh,

1696
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 1: and as I said, Bonneville power of power is no

1697
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:13,719
Speaker 1: longer the low cost power in the in the Pacific

1698
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: Northwest anymore. So we've got to do something to make

1699
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 1: them u competitive in the future. Let's talk for a

1700
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 1: minute about the hell no never perspective. Um, if this

1701
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 1: will demonstrate my bias a little bit, but if I

1702
01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:31,519
Speaker 1: view someone saying, Um, if I viewed someone like like yourself,

1703
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:34,200
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're not a salmon fisherman, okay, but

1704
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 1: you're you're recognizing the importance of salmon as a as

1705
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 1: a wild creature that we're blessed to have on the landscape. Right.

1706
01:42:45,320 --> 01:42:48,960
Speaker 1: It belongs to a system that's greater than any individual,

1707
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:51,719
Speaker 1: and it has integrity. We want to uphold the integrity.

1708
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:54,519
Speaker 1: Like I view that as you know that that to

1709
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:59,759
Speaker 1: me strikes me as um, you know, largely altruistic viewpoint,

1710
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,719
Speaker 1: Like you're looking to future generations. If you talk about

1711
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 1: the hell no never audience, is there an argument among

1712
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 1: them that goes beyond anything that might be self serving?

1713
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:15,840
Speaker 1: You know, I think there's concern. And as I said

1714
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 1: in our video when we released it, I said, you know,

1715
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:21,479
Speaker 1: I can't promise you I'm not certain that removing these

1716
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:24,639
Speaker 1: dams will bring back salmon. It's a complex biological system.

1717
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:27,040
Speaker 1: You know, when I was a dentist in the real world,

1718
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:30,680
Speaker 1: some coming to my office with a serious infection, and

1719
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,599
Speaker 1: I could prescribe some antibiotics for him. I couldn't promise

1720
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:36,679
Speaker 1: them it at work. It would work nine nine percent

1721
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,320
Speaker 1: of the time. You can't promise somebody it's gonna work

1722
01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 1: because it's a biological system and people react differently. The

1723
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:45,400
Speaker 1: same thing is true with salmon. But it's the best

1724
01:43:45,479 --> 01:43:48,200
Speaker 1: chance we've got of recovering Sam and I think the

1725
01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:52,400
Speaker 1: only chance we've got of recovering these four for salmon runs.

1726
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 1: But I always get a kick out of people who

1727
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:58,559
Speaker 1: say to me, you know, I don't think we should

1728
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:02,160
Speaker 1: remove these dams. Uh, it's not guaranteed that salmon would

1729
01:44:02,200 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 1: come back. And I want salmon back as much as

1730
01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:06,559
Speaker 1: anybody else does. What they really mean is, I want

1731
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:08,240
Speaker 1: salmon to come back, but I don't want to have

1732
01:44:08,280 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 1: to change anything that we're currently doing. Uh, you can't

1733
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:14,960
Speaker 1: have those two things. I don't think you're gonna get

1734
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: salmon back. And I think in in what the fish

1735
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 1: biologists tell me is within probably twenty years, that's five

1736
01:44:23,160 --> 01:44:26,719
Speaker 1: like life cycles or four life cycles of salmon. Uh,

1737
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:30,840
Speaker 1: that that these fish will be extinct. And you mentioned

1738
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:34,479
Speaker 1: the reason for it, as I said, you know, some

1739
01:44:34,520 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 1: people want them come back because they want to be

1740
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:38,920
Speaker 1: able to fish and etcetera, etcetera. I want them back

1741
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:42,320
Speaker 1: because there are an essential part of our of our economy,

1742
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 1: and essentral part of nature. Uh. There are over three

1743
01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:51,160
Speaker 1: hundred of three other species of animals and plants that

1744
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 1: depend on the nutrition that salmon bring back up from

1745
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:56,720
Speaker 1: the ocean. Uh. There's been studies done that if you

1746
01:44:56,760 --> 01:45:02,479
Speaker 1: look at a stream where salmon uh generally populate versus

1747
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:05,160
Speaker 1: one where there's no salmon in it, trees actually go

1748
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:08,760
Speaker 1: three times faster in the in the drainage that has

1749
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:11,559
Speaker 1: the salmon, just because of the nutrients that they bring

1750
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:15,880
Speaker 1: back something of the hair of a of a bear

1751
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:20,639
Speaker 1: in these regions have salmon d n A. And so

1752
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,680
Speaker 1: they're an important iconic species for the Pacific Northwest. I

1753
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:26,800
Speaker 1: don't want to be the generation that said, yeah, we

1754
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:28,519
Speaker 1: saw him going away and we didn't do anything to

1755
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:32,719
Speaker 1: try and stop it. You mentioned only Congress can remove

1756
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:36,600
Speaker 1: the dams. Uh, why is that? Like, what what is

1757
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:38,360
Speaker 1: the what is this sort of like the legal the

1758
01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:41,639
Speaker 1: legal framework that that makes that true. Well, there they

1759
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:45,000
Speaker 1: are federal dams that were put in with federal legislation.

1760
01:45:45,080 --> 01:45:48,360
Speaker 1: So to take federal legislation to h to remove them.

1761
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:51,759
Speaker 1: That's my understanding of the and I think that's probably true.

1762
01:45:52,479 --> 01:45:55,600
Speaker 1: But like I said, a judge can can make it

1763
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:57,599
Speaker 1: so damned to expensive to keep him. He could order

1764
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:00,280
Speaker 1: draw downs where you would actually draw the as of

1765
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:02,840
Speaker 1: oars down to almost zero, which means there wouldn't be

1766
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:05,800
Speaker 1: any barging or anything else like that. Or he could

1767
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 1: order additional spills and guess where that water ultimately comes from.

1768
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:12,479
Speaker 1: It comes from Idaho because all the water in the

1769
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:14,960
Speaker 1: Snake River drains out of the Idaho drainages, and so

1770
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:20,439
Speaker 1: uh and and Idaho. These the habitat that we're talking

1771
01:46:20,439 --> 01:46:23,600
Speaker 1: about in Ido and Central Ido is the high altitude

1772
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:29,320
Speaker 1: habitat and probably the best and cleanest water and coldest

1773
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,519
Speaker 1: water UH in the in the entire Pacific Northwest for

1774
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:36,040
Speaker 1: salmon habitats. So UH it is vital that we restore

1775
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:42,160
Speaker 1: uh store these uh salm into this habitat, and especially

1776
01:46:42,240 --> 01:46:45,839
Speaker 1: in the age of warming rivers because of global global

1777
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 1: warming and other types of things. UH, it's important that

1778
01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:53,559
Speaker 1: we maintain this cold, high altitude water habitat that we

1779
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:57,519
Speaker 1: have an Idaho congressman, we've UH we we've talked a

1780
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:01,759
Speaker 1: little bit about um the argument for removing the dams.

1781
01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:04,800
Speaker 1: We've talked about some of the resistance of doing it

1782
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:08,439
Speaker 1: and what it might take to ease that resistance. What

1783
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:14,840
Speaker 1: about just the physical process, Like let's let's say one

1784
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 1: of Americans and one of the Congress, the US Congress

1785
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:24,680
Speaker 1: and Senate all said, yes, let's go. Uh what are

1786
01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:27,439
Speaker 1: we what are we looking at? I mean, are we

1787
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:32,479
Speaker 1: talking about decades of work? ZUI is not like a

1788
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 1: B fifty two bomber just comes over and it's done right.

1789
01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:37,800
Speaker 1: There's a there's a thing that needs to happen here. Yeah,

1790
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:40,680
Speaker 1: it's much more complicated. And our proposal to damns don't

1791
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:45,240
Speaker 1: actually come out until because that's nine nine years from now.

1792
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:48,840
Speaker 1: You have to have the power replacement in place, you

1793
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:51,840
Speaker 1: have to have the alternative transportation in place. But then

1794
01:47:51,880 --> 01:47:54,400
Speaker 1: you have to do dredging behind these dams. That's gonna

1795
01:47:54,439 --> 01:47:57,240
Speaker 1: cost you a billion or so dollars to remove the

1796
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:00,200
Speaker 1: sediment that has accumulated behind these dams, because you don't

1797
01:48:00,200 --> 01:48:02,200
Speaker 1: want them to want it to just wash down the river.

1798
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 1: So you've got to remove the sediment. And then we

1799
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 1: don't physically remove the cement. Part of the of the damn.

1800
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:11,759
Speaker 1: What you do is you remove the earthen berms around

1801
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:15,439
Speaker 1: the edge to create the natural river flow that existed before.

1802
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:21,639
Speaker 1: Oh until that'll it stays there. Yeah, yeah, the cement

1803
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 1: part stays there. It's the it's the earthen berms that

1804
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 1: that attached on the sides that you'd remove, and then

1805
01:48:29,360 --> 01:48:32,880
Speaker 1: the river could flow around that. And uh. You know,

1806
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:36,640
Speaker 1: and I've told people listening thirty years of salm and

1807
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:39,080
Speaker 1: aren't back. This hasn't worked. You could actually replace the

1808
01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:43,200
Speaker 1: earthen berms if you need to. Uh. We've just got

1809
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:48,160
Speaker 1: to start start thinking outside of the traditional uh ideas

1810
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:50,320
Speaker 1: that we've had in the past that haven't worked, and say,

1811
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:53,000
Speaker 1: let's let's look down the road. Let's see how we

1812
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:56,040
Speaker 1: can make this work. Uh, and let's try something different.

1813
01:48:56,960 --> 01:48:58,639
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know you can't be a slave

1814
01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:04,440
Speaker 1: to polling, but among your constituents, what percentage of your constituents?

1815
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:08,439
Speaker 1: I think that something's got to happen. Uh. You know,

1816
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:11,000
Speaker 1: we haven't done any polling on this, so I can't

1817
01:49:11,160 --> 01:49:15,920
Speaker 1: give you an exact answer. The only answer I would

1818
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:18,439
Speaker 1: have is from the contact I've had with people. As

1819
01:49:18,439 --> 01:49:21,320
Speaker 1: I said, a lot of people are saying, interesting, we

1820
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 1: ought to consider this. Other people are saying, I admire

1821
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 1: you for taking on the challenge, and it's a discussion.

1822
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:27,559
Speaker 1: It's got to be had. But I'm not sure I'm

1823
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:30,080
Speaker 1: in favor of Damn removal, and other people are just

1824
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:34,479
Speaker 1: saying hell no. So it's a slow process of giving

1825
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:38,360
Speaker 1: people a chance to consider this and and think about

1826
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:41,160
Speaker 1: the options and what and what we might be able

1827
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:43,439
Speaker 1: to do and if we want to plan our own future.

1828
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:47,080
Speaker 1: And I think over time over the next few months,

1829
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:49,479
Speaker 1: if people have a chance to really sit down and

1830
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 1: talk to talk about it, UH, you'll see more people

1831
01:49:52,640 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 1: coming around with the possibilities. And I've I've been doing

1832
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,760
Speaker 1: meetings all over my district in Idaho. We will start

1833
01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 1: doing some more around the Pacific Northwest and North Idaho

1834
01:50:03,360 --> 01:50:08,640
Speaker 1: and Washington and Oregon. Also from the agricultural perspective, Congressman,

1835
01:50:09,840 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 1: is the lack of embrace for Damn removal based on

1836
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:17,880
Speaker 1: the shipping primarily the use of the of the barge

1837
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:23,000
Speaker 1: system for moving grain or is it due to uh,

1838
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 1: probably a realistic increase in cost of pumping water out

1839
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:37,000
Speaker 1: of the snake for agricultural purposes. It comes in several aspects.

1840
01:50:37,800 --> 01:50:42,960
Speaker 1: I think the largest opposition is from the grain grower perspective,

1841
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 1: because they ship nine million bushels of grain down the

1842
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:48,439
Speaker 1: river every year, and they're they're afraid that if you

1843
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:51,000
Speaker 1: added ten or fifteen cents to a to a bushel

1844
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:53,600
Speaker 1: in transportation costs that put them out of business. It

1845
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:56,000
Speaker 1: might well, I think we can do it, and they

1846
01:50:56,040 --> 01:50:58,760
Speaker 1: can actually ship per farmer at a cheaper cost than

1847
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:01,800
Speaker 1: doing it by barging. If we give them the resources

1848
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:04,080
Speaker 1: to develop this plan. Now we've come up with an idea.

1849
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 1: It might not be the right idea, but they're the

1850
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:08,720
Speaker 1: experts in trying to get their grain to the Tri

1851
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:12,160
Speaker 1: Cities in New Portland, so we're given the resources, they'll

1852
01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:14,800
Speaker 1: come up with a plan. I've been interested though, in

1853
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:19,080
Speaker 1: the grain farmers in southern Idaho in my district, UH

1854
01:51:19,120 --> 01:51:22,840
Speaker 1: that actually don't use the barge system. They either truck

1855
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 1: it to the Tri Cities or Salt Lake right now,

1856
01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:29,840
Speaker 1: and UH, the only thing this plan would do for

1857
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 1: them is make more water available for southern Idaho. When

1858
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 1: we stopped flushing fo seven thousand acre feet of water

1859
01:51:36,320 --> 01:51:39,160
Speaker 1: down the river, We've got some real water quality issues

1860
01:51:39,200 --> 01:51:40,920
Speaker 1: in the Snake River in the mid snake up by

1861
01:51:40,960 --> 01:51:44,479
Speaker 1: twin falls and so forth, and uh, and this would

1862
01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:50,640
Speaker 1: help improve that water quality and quantity by by you know,

1863
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:53,640
Speaker 1: stopping the flushing. And I've told these people listen, that

1864
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:55,559
Speaker 1: flush is going to go away one way or another.

1865
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:58,040
Speaker 1: It's gonna go away because salmon go extinct and it's

1866
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:01,559
Speaker 1: no longer necessary to flush sam water for salmon. Or

1867
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:03,760
Speaker 1: it's gonna go away because the dams aren't there, so

1868
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:07,600
Speaker 1: you don't need to flush water to uh to uh

1869
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:12,080
Speaker 1: flush Smoltz over the dams. So uh, it's it's a

1870
01:52:12,120 --> 01:52:14,040
Speaker 1: matter of looking down there. And then I think there

1871
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:19,920
Speaker 1: is just a natural sort of resistance to say, how

1872
01:52:19,960 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 1: stupid is this to take out this infrastructure that we've

1873
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 1: that we built over the years and stuff, you know,

1874
01:52:25,320 --> 01:52:28,640
Speaker 1: and why would you want to do that? And I

1875
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:30,920
Speaker 1: understand that because that's as I said, you know, a

1876
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:32,760
Speaker 1: number of years ago, I probably would have been in

1877
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:36,120
Speaker 1: that same camp. But you've got to look down the future,

1878
01:52:36,360 --> 01:52:40,080
Speaker 1: and we don't do this for us. We do this

1879
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 1: for future generations. Both those people that care about the

1880
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:47,720
Speaker 1: environment and salmon and also agricultural producers try to end

1881
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:50,960
Speaker 1: these lawsuits that they're facing every single day. And that

1882
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 1: power companies are facing every single day and try to

1883
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:57,360
Speaker 1: end the spiraling costs of the power that they have

1884
01:52:58,200 --> 01:53:00,600
Speaker 1: uh in UH if you if you talk to the

1885
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:05,600
Speaker 1: Washington area growers, they pump water out of these reservoirs

1886
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:10,000
Speaker 1: behind these dams. Uh and so consequently restoring a natural

1887
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:13,679
Speaker 1: river means that it would they would have to to

1888
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:17,800
Speaker 1: alter their their irrigation uh pumps and how they draw

1889
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:20,479
Speaker 1: water out and probably deepen their wells and a few things.

1890
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:22,800
Speaker 1: We've put some money into this proposal for them to

1891
01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 1: help do it. They said it probably takes six hundred

1892
01:53:24,920 --> 01:53:27,519
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars. We've put seven and fifty million

1893
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:31,200
Speaker 1: dollars into the proposal. So we're trying to address all

1894
01:53:31,240 --> 01:53:35,240
Speaker 1: these concerns that people have. And but but believe me,

1895
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:39,479
Speaker 1: I understand the concerns, Congressman. I think that as this

1896
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:41,599
Speaker 1: rolled out, you know, it had a price bat tag

1897
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:44,160
Speaker 1: of thirty three point five million, and I think there

1898
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:48,479
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a sticker shock. But yeah,

1899
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:52,360
Speaker 1: with the billion, yeah billion, and so as it is

1900
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:55,200
Speaker 1: rolled out, living on the police as I do, UM,

1901
01:53:55,240 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 1: I've seen definitely both sides of it. People that support

1902
01:53:58,520 --> 01:54:03,120
Speaker 1: support it for various reasons, Um, But I've been very

1903
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:07,040
Speaker 1: interested in the fact that the proposal isn't just about salmon,

1904
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:10,800
Speaker 1: it isn't just about conservation. You took this step to

1905
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 1: include every industry in almost every community into consideration, and

1906
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:19,680
Speaker 1: I think that's a pretty striking aspect of the proposal,

1907
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:22,360
Speaker 1: and and so kudos to you for that. You know,

1908
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:28,600
Speaker 1: having those three meetings, UM, do you get the sense that, UM,

1909
01:54:28,760 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 1: that with those three meetings that a lot of the

1910
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:35,480
Speaker 1: uh if you will, the leaks and the dam were

1911
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:38,040
Speaker 1: plugged and and these are small hurdles that you have

1912
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:41,800
Speaker 1: to jump. Now with the additional five bringing your total

1913
01:54:41,840 --> 01:54:44,880
Speaker 1: up to five. I mean, you think we're getting there

1914
01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: as far as buy in in the proposal as broad

1915
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:52,720
Speaker 1: as it is. Well, I I appreciate comments, And like

1916
01:54:52,800 --> 01:54:55,640
Speaker 1: I said, we tried to take into consideration all the

1917
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 1: impacts that we could think of, and that's why we

1918
01:54:57,400 --> 01:54:59,400
Speaker 1: talked to so many stakeholders because there were things that

1919
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:02,120
Speaker 1: we probably wouldn't have thought of had we not talked

1920
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:05,880
Speaker 1: to a lot of these different individuals and stuff. And

1921
01:55:05,960 --> 01:55:10,240
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't say that that we plugged all the leaks,

1922
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:13,000
Speaker 1: for sure. There's still some out there that that we

1923
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:14,960
Speaker 1: need to talk to. But I'd say the conversation is

1924
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:19,560
Speaker 1: going well. I've actually talked to grain producers in the police,

1925
01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 1: actual farmers, uh and uh they said, well, you know,

1926
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:25,680
Speaker 1: this is kind of an interesting idea, and yeah, if

1927
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:28,040
Speaker 1: we could get grain down the river, do we really

1928
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:30,800
Speaker 1: need to dance and stuff. But as an association, they're

1929
01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 1: opposed to it. And the Washington grain Growers, the Idaho

1930
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 1: grain growers, the Oregon grain growers all stick together and

1931
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:40,040
Speaker 1: support one another, so uh, it will be it will

1932
01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:42,080
Speaker 1: be hard to bring them on board. What I'm trying

1933
01:55:42,080 --> 01:55:46,080
Speaker 1: to do is allevie some of their fears that were

1934
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a history that I've built up

1935
01:55:49,680 --> 01:55:52,840
Speaker 1: over the years of being the leading supporter of agriculture

1936
01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:56,280
Speaker 1: in in Congress, one of the leading supporters of agriculture

1937
01:55:56,280 --> 01:56:00,560
Speaker 1: and Congress, whether it was making sure that they had

1938
01:56:00,600 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 1: the resources to do what was necessary. The cattleman, we

1939
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:06,800
Speaker 1: delisted wolves and a few things like that for for

1940
01:56:07,120 --> 01:56:10,520
Speaker 1: the cattleman and sheep industry, kept the do Boys sheep

1941
01:56:10,560 --> 01:56:13,480
Speaker 1: station open. Made sure that white potatoes and you know,

1942
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,280
Speaker 1: being from Idaho, potatoes are important. We're put back on

1943
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:19,360
Speaker 1: the wig program and in school lunch program and things

1944
01:56:19,400 --> 01:56:21,920
Speaker 1: like that, and making sure they have the resources for

1945
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 1: their their research and so forth in the wheat industry

1946
01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:27,840
Speaker 1: and so forth. I've got lots of awards from the

1947
01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:31,560
Speaker 1: agricultural industry. And if I thought for a second that

1948
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:33,840
Speaker 1: this would harm agriculture in the long run, I'd drop

1949
01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:36,600
Speaker 1: it in a heartbeat. This will not harm app culture,

1950
01:56:36,600 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 1: and I think it will place them in a better

1951
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:41,120
Speaker 1: position in the future. But that takes time to come

1952
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:43,680
Speaker 1: around to UH, and I understand that, and that's why

1953
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:46,320
Speaker 1: I haven't gone out and ask anybody to jump on

1954
01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 1: board and support this. I just said, listen, let's all

1955
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,680
Speaker 1: put down the pitchforks, and let's have this discussion of

1956
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:55,480
Speaker 1: what we want the Pacific Northwest to look like in

1957
01:56:55,960 --> 01:57:00,280
Speaker 1: forty or fifty years. Congressman, would you like to directly

1958
01:57:00,440 --> 01:57:06,040
Speaker 1: address the idea that the suspension of like you mentioned

1959
01:57:06,080 --> 01:57:09,960
Speaker 1: the Clean Water Act d s a M on the

1960
01:57:10,080 --> 01:57:16,600
Speaker 1: Lower Columbia Dams would also allow the building of of

1961
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:25,040
Speaker 1: new infrastructure that would like go against UH the idea

1962
01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:31,240
Speaker 1: of modernizing like clean or green energy. UM. A lot

1963
01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:33,160
Speaker 1: of people see this as like, oh my god, we're

1964
01:57:33,160 --> 01:57:38,640
Speaker 1: gonna suspend these tools that we use to UH. Fight

1965
01:57:39,560 --> 01:57:44,720
Speaker 1: bad eken or environmental policy um as like a scapegoat

1966
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:47,880
Speaker 1: type of tool. A trade off. It is a trade

1967
01:57:47,880 --> 01:57:50,840
Speaker 1: off to some degree. But the reality is all of

1968
01:57:50,880 --> 01:57:54,920
Speaker 1: the lawsuits that occur occur virtually all of them occur

1969
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:57,160
Speaker 1: around the Clean Water Acting in the Nanger Spaces Act.

1970
01:57:57,200 --> 01:57:59,280
Speaker 1: Every time a dam comes up to read license. I'll

1971
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: give you an example, I'd hop Powers Health Health Canyon Complex.

1972
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:07,280
Speaker 1: They've been trying to re license those damn since I

1973
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:09,440
Speaker 1: was a Speaker of the House in Idaho. That was

1974
01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:12,720
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, and they've been trying to relycense.

1975
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:15,360
Speaker 1: They've spent as much money or in fact, they spent

1976
01:58:15,440 --> 01:58:18,880
Speaker 1: three times as much money re licensing those dams as

1977
01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:21,920
Speaker 1: it did to build the dams, and they still haven't

1978
01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:24,880
Speaker 1: got licenses for him yet. That's what's happening with all

1979
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:27,040
Speaker 1: of the dams in the Pacific Northwest. And what we've

1980
01:58:27,080 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 1: created is a cottage industry with the age of funds

1981
01:58:30,320 --> 01:58:33,120
Speaker 1: that's equal access to justice funds that are paid for

1982
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 1: by Congress. And what happens is a firm can come up,

1983
01:58:37,440 --> 01:58:41,240
Speaker 1: an environmental group or whatever can come up, file a lawsuit,

1984
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:43,160
Speaker 1: and if you win, in partner and hold your lot,

1985
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:45,640
Speaker 1: your fees can be paid for, and you actually make

1986
01:58:45,640 --> 01:58:48,360
Speaker 1: money on these things. And it is a cottage industry

1987
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 1: that's going on. And so I'm I'm not too happy

1988
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:57,720
Speaker 1: about that, but I think that suspending the the Endangered

1989
01:58:57,720 --> 01:59:02,280
Speaker 1: Species Act and the and the UH Clean Water Act

1990
01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:07,440
Speaker 1: and the nip A process is vitally important to ending

1991
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:09,640
Speaker 1: these lawsuits. And it doesn't mean you can go out

1992
01:59:09,720 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 1: and do additional things. It just means these damps are

1993
01:59:12,320 --> 01:59:16,760
Speaker 1: re licensed operators they currently as they currently operate and stuff. Uh,

1994
01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:18,200
Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a looking into a

1995
01:59:18,200 --> 01:59:22,120
Speaker 1: crystal ball type of question here. Okay, I I have

1996
01:59:22,160 --> 01:59:25,720
Speaker 1: a lot of respect and admiration for the way you're

1997
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:29,560
Speaker 1: you're framing it up, that that you're not starting with legislation,

1998
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:32,800
Speaker 1: You're starting with a proposal. You're bringing it to people,

1999
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:36,440
Speaker 1: You're inviting comments, you're inviting critiques, You're trying to initiate

2000
01:59:36,440 --> 01:59:41,080
Speaker 1: a discussion. Um, do you feel that in the end,

2001
01:59:42,120 --> 01:59:45,440
Speaker 1: in terms of your involvement here, that in the end

2002
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:49,880
Speaker 1: that's your goal or do you think that this specific

2003
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:56,520
Speaker 1: proposal could actually be but you know, a blueprint for

2004
01:59:56,600 --> 01:59:58,640
Speaker 1: action that we take or is it to you is

2005
01:59:58,640 --> 02:00:03,120
Speaker 1: it enough just to start the conversation, trusting that in

2006
02:00:03,320 --> 02:00:07,720
Speaker 1: ten twenty thirty years the conversation advances enough. Or do

2007
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:09,840
Speaker 1: you think we could be like, you know, at a

2008
02:00:09,920 --> 02:00:11,920
Speaker 1: moment right like, at a moment in time where we're

2009
02:00:11,920 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 1: gonna go Uh, that's a good question. I think that

2010
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:21,000
Speaker 1: this is a blueprint which could start the process of

2011
02:00:22,040 --> 02:00:26,760
Speaker 1: recovering ido salmon, removing dams, and changing the economy and

2012
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:30,840
Speaker 1: the transitioning of the Pacific Northwest for the future. Whether

2013
02:00:30,920 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 1: it would be this specific proposal or not, I don't know,

2014
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:36,240
Speaker 1: but I think this could be the blueprint for it.

2015
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,280
Speaker 1: We're at a unique time in history. We don't have

2016
02:00:39,400 --> 02:00:42,040
Speaker 1: that long to make a decision on how we're going

2017
02:00:42,080 --> 02:00:44,680
Speaker 1: to recover salmon and whether we're gonna do this. And

2018
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,960
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest Delegation is actually in a pretty powerful

2019
02:00:48,040 --> 02:00:51,120
Speaker 1: position when you consider Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee

2020
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:54,800
Speaker 1: is Ron Wyden from from Oregon. Patty Murray and from

2021
02:00:54,800 --> 02:00:58,280
Speaker 1: Washington is in leadership. Mike Crepo from Idaho is the

2022
02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:02,520
Speaker 1: ranking member on the on the Senate Finance Committee. We've

2023
02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:07,120
Speaker 1: got important people Kathy and Morris Rodgers from Washington, who

2024
02:01:07,160 --> 02:01:10,560
Speaker 1: is not supportive of Damn removal, but is the chairs

2025
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:13,040
Speaker 1: the ranking member on the Energy and Commerce Committee in

2026
02:01:13,080 --> 02:01:15,280
Speaker 1: the House. I'm one of the senior members on the

2027
02:01:15,320 --> 02:01:18,840
Speaker 1: Appropriations Committee. So when you look at how the delegation

2028
02:01:19,560 --> 02:01:24,960
Speaker 1: is and and uh the chairman of the Pete de

2029
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:29,600
Speaker 1: Fazio as chairman of the Infrastructure Transportation Committee in the House,

2030
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:34,040
Speaker 1: so we're in a pretty powerful position. It's also helpful,

2031
02:01:34,600 --> 02:01:38,280
Speaker 1: frankly that the Biden administration is looking at an infrastructure package,

2032
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:41,000
Speaker 1: because I'd like to get the financing for this in

2033
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:44,560
Speaker 1: place before we started doing the legislation. You've heard too

2034
02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:48,600
Speaker 1: many times where Congress passes legislation and promises financing for

2035
02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:52,120
Speaker 1: things and then that never happens. Uh. I would like

2036
02:01:52,240 --> 02:01:56,360
Speaker 1: to put the financing UH in place if we could

2037
02:01:56,400 --> 02:01:59,160
Speaker 1: do it through this infrastructure package that the Biden administration

2038
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:02,120
Speaker 1: is looking at and put it in a trust fund

2039
02:02:02,640 --> 02:02:07,040
Speaker 1: until we had the legislation pass that that we could

2040
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 1: do this. So it's a it is a long process,

2041
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:12,400
Speaker 1: it's a cumbersome process, and I will tell you right

2042
02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:14,880
Speaker 1: in the legislation is going to be, for lack of

2043
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:17,880
Speaker 1: a better word, of nightmare because it involves so many

2044
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:23,080
Speaker 1: different aspects of of the economy. And the environment of

2045
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:27,440
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest. So but I think, and I and

2046
02:02:27,480 --> 02:02:30,960
Speaker 1: I've told people, I honestly believe that in years those

2047
02:02:31,000 --> 02:02:33,320
Speaker 1: damps are going to be gone. Whether it's because of

2048
02:02:33,360 --> 02:02:36,240
Speaker 1: this or for some other reason, I think those damns

2049
02:02:36,280 --> 02:02:37,960
Speaker 1: will be gone. The question is will it be done

2050
02:02:37,960 --> 02:02:40,800
Speaker 1: in time to say the salmon or not? Uh, I

2051
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:43,000
Speaker 1: know you've got stuff you gotta go do. I appreciate

2052
02:02:43,080 --> 02:02:46,960
Speaker 1: your time. Uh, anything you'd like to add in? Um

2053
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:49,120
Speaker 1: at the end here that that I didn't ask you,

2054
02:02:49,160 --> 02:02:51,760
Speaker 1: but you're you're dying to say, I've probably told you

2055
02:02:51,800 --> 02:02:57,480
Speaker 1: more than I know. Well, again, I appreciate taking the time. UM,

2056
02:02:57,520 --> 02:02:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure people love to hear it. It's a you know,

2057
02:03:00,240 --> 02:03:03,960
Speaker 1: aspects of this debate I've been exposed to for my

2058
02:03:04,120 --> 02:03:08,200
Speaker 1: entire life. Um, it's exciting to see getting the attention

2059
02:03:08,480 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 1: that it's getting now. Best of luck. I appreciate the

2060
02:03:12,240 --> 02:03:15,160
Speaker 1: efforts that you're putting in to try to hear people

2061
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:16,960
Speaker 1: out on this and in a in a way that

2062
02:03:17,040 --> 02:03:21,320
Speaker 1: maybe is not quite as acrimonious as other efforts, you know,

2063
02:03:22,120 --> 02:03:25,800
Speaker 1: start this conversation about something that's very important. So Congressman

2064
02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:28,760
Speaker 1: Mike Simpson from Idaho thank you very much. Thank you,

2065
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:36,960
Speaker 1: Steve appreciate it very much. All Right, Phil, we're gonna

2066
02:03:37,200 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 1: let's end its show there. Yeah, great guest Chester. You'll

2067
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:47,200
Speaker 1: come back on for more investor updates. Yea. Hopefully we

2068
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:51,200
Speaker 1: can just start doing the fishing adventures. Oh, like you

2069
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:54,160
Speaker 1: want to after you get the boat? Oh? Can we

2070
02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:57,000
Speaker 1: do that, Phil? Yeah, I already made it as a

2071
02:03:57,080 --> 02:03:59,520
Speaker 1: separate jingle for when he gets the boat. Are you

2072
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:03,080
Speaker 1: already did? Yeah? Okay, I hear it. There's Wallee in

2073
02:04:03,120 --> 02:04:06,240
Speaker 1: the snake right lower snake. Maybe I'll come over there

2074
02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:12,240
Speaker 1: and yeah, it should be like Lie and Chester the Investor,

2075
02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:14,480
Speaker 1: just because you got a Walleye boat when it could

2076
02:04:14,520 --> 02:04:18,200
Speaker 1: just morph. Yeah, money in action, your investment in action,

2077
02:04:18,840 --> 02:04:21,040
Speaker 1: investing in I'm so glad because I was. I was

2078
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 1: already starting to miss you, Like you get the boat

2079
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:26,960
Speaker 1: and you wouldn't come into the studio anymore. I was

2080
02:04:27,760 --> 02:04:31,120
Speaker 1: the angler. That doesn't sound good. No, yeah, it can

2081
02:04:31,160 --> 02:04:35,320
Speaker 1: be investing my time in catching Walleye. You probably forgot

2082
02:04:35,320 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 1: that you did this, but you asked me to make

2083
02:04:36,920 --> 02:04:40,919
Speaker 1: a jingle. It's the continuing Walleye Adventures of Chester the Investors.

2084
02:04:41,600 --> 02:04:43,800
Speaker 1: You did on on the podcast. I have a tentative

2085
02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:48,720
Speaker 1: hold on Steve's boat right now, Chester for uh a

2086
02:04:48,760 --> 02:04:52,320
Speaker 1: couple of days in April and April first weekend May.

2087
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:57,040
Speaker 1: The Ginering Ventures of Chester the Walleye. No restrictions or

2088
02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:01,640
Speaker 1: limits on Walleye or small Mouth where you're going. Yeah,

2089
02:05:03,080 --> 02:05:08,120
Speaker 1: he's going. He's going to help salmon. And that's it.

2090
02:05:08,240 --> 02:05:11,160
Speaker 1: You don't like do it, like looking at him, don't

2091
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:16,360
Speaker 1: like catching him, but you thought long and hard. Somebody's

2092
02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:17,520
Speaker 1: got to do it. That was one of the things

2093
02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:20,600
Speaker 1: we used to laugh about was when people would be like,

2094
02:05:21,720 --> 02:05:24,520
Speaker 1: people to go shoot prairie dogs. You know, well, it's

2095
02:05:24,520 --> 02:05:27,440
Speaker 1: helping the rancher. I'm like, I bet you. I bet

2096
02:05:27,480 --> 02:05:29,160
Speaker 1: you if you went to the rancher and you said,

2097
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:31,840
Speaker 1: me and my buddies here, I want to help. We

2098
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:35,840
Speaker 1: just want to help. What can we do? I bet

2099
02:05:35,880 --> 02:05:38,920
Speaker 1: you about fifty on his list of chores would be

2100
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:43,600
Speaker 1: shooting prairie dogs. He'd be like, see that fence and

2101
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:47,000
Speaker 1: I'll five miles of it. If you really want to help,

2102
02:05:47,960 --> 02:05:51,080
Speaker 1: that would be helpful. He's liking those prairie dogs. I

2103
02:05:51,080 --> 02:05:54,880
Speaker 1: got this uh chemical dispenser on the front of my

2104
02:05:54,960 --> 02:05:57,480
Speaker 1: four wheeler and I just drive over each hole, hit

2105
02:05:57,480 --> 02:06:00,400
Speaker 1: a button and drops a load of rodents in there,

2106
02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:03,240
Speaker 1: so don't worry about that. Doesn't worry about the facts. Yeah,

2107
02:06:04,200 --> 02:06:23,360
Speaker 1: all right, thanks everybody,