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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do

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Speaker 2: we have, Crystal, Indeed, we.

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Speaker 4: Do lots to get to this morning.

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Speaker 1: We're going to start with fears of a broader war

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Speaker 1: escalating out of Israel's war on Gaza. Also some images

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Speaker 1: emerging that people are comparing to Abu Grabe two point

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Speaker 1: zero and could have a similarly radicalizing impact. So we'll

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Speaker 1: break all of that down for you. So a major

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Speaker 1: free speech controversy, a university president out at pen We

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Speaker 1: will get into all of that and really enraging me anyway,

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Speaker 1: We'll give.

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Speaker 4: You all those details.

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Speaker 1: More dire numbers for Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton jumping

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Speaker 1: into the fray. We also want to break down for

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Speaker 1: you a major abortion case unfolding in the state of

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Speaker 1: Texas with the potential to royal politics there and across

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Speaker 1: the country.

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Speaker 4: I'm taking a look at.

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Speaker 1: The life of a poet who was killed in by

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Speaker 1: the Israelis over last week. And we also have an

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Speaker 1: Israeli poster who's going to join us to talk about

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Speaker 1: what is going on in terms of domestic politics with

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Speaker 1: regard to bb Net and Yahoo. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to any of that, this is the last week to

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Speaker 1: get our very very special Christmas sweater.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead and put it up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: I modeled a little bit for some people on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: It is the very last week. We've only got a

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Speaker 2: few left if you want to be able to get

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Speaker 2: it and wear it during the Christmas season so you

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Speaker 2: can prostlytize such a great show. Also, we've got our

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Speaker 2: yearly memberships which remain on discount for the rest of

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Speaker 2: the year. This is a way for you guys can

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Speaker 2: help us out and build for the election season.

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Speaker 3: Again, I say it every show, but it's shocking.

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Speaker 2: A year from now we will be at least finally

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Speaker 2: done with the voting part of the twenty twenty four election,

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Speaker 2: which is wild and is nuts, but is one of

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Speaker 2: those you guys are really helping us build for that

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Speaker 2: season plan remain nimble and to be able to bring

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Speaker 2: you all the best content that we possibly can and

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Speaker 2: what is sure to be an absolutely wild and probably

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Speaker 2: trying time, but we will be there with you throughout

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Speaker 2: every step of the way, so breakingpoints dot Com to

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Speaker 2: be able to take advantage of that.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's go ahead and get to the latest

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Speaker 1: out of Israel and start with those fears of a

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Speaker 1: broader war, escalation possibilities on multiple fronts. Let's put this

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. Huffin and Post actually has been

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Speaker 1: doing a good job with some of their reporting during

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Speaker 1: this conflict, and they had a major piece breaking down

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Speaker 1: some of the risks and with sources inside the administration

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Speaker 1: raising alarm bells. What they say here is Gaza may

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Speaker 1: soon become a bigger war. They've got the highlights.

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Speaker 4: They say.

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Speaker 1: US officials fear Israel wants weapons to fight in Lebanon.

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Speaker 1: Israel will not share plans with the Biden administration or Congress.

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Speaker 1: That reminds me of Ukraine. There, top officials discuss a

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Speaker 1: Rock and Syria escalation. AID organizations are ringing alarm bells

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Speaker 1: more than.

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Speaker 4: They ever have.

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Speaker 1: We give you a few of the details from within

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Speaker 1: this piece that are really crucial to understanding where we

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Speaker 1: are and what the risks are. They write, one week

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Speaker 1: into the resumed Israeli military campaign in Gaza, US officials

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Speaker 1: and foreign policy experts are increasingly afraid that Israel's operation

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Speaker 1: will fuel a broader conflict, drawing in Lebanon and expanding

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Speaker 1: throughout the Middle East, potentially forcing American troops into the fight.

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Speaker 1: One of the key pieces here that I found really

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Speaker 1: noteworthy is you have Biden administration officials who are worried

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Speaker 1: that the weapons that Israel is requesting from the United

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Speaker 1: States right now, which by the way, we've been approving

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Speaker 1: with no qualms whatsoever, they won't tell us what they

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Speaker 1: actually want to use those weapons for, and that has

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Speaker 1: raised grave fears from the White House and the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration that those weapons are intended to be used in

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Speaker 1: Lebanon against the Lebanese militia Hezblah. They have a senior

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Speaker 1: fellow at a Middle East Institute think tank quoted as

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Speaker 1: saying this last week, the level of concern in DC

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Speaker 1: about a potential war on the israel Lebanon front has

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Speaker 1: gone up three or four notches. You also have despite

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Speaker 1: repeated calls for Israeli restraint, US intelligence assesses the IDF

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Speaker 1: are committed to quote business as usual, with only limited

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Speaker 1: concern about civilian casualties. According to a US official and

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Speaker 1: their suspicions, the renewed campaign is actually bloodier than the

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Speaker 1: previous offensive in northern Gaza. And of course the longer

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Speaker 1: that this war continues, the more brutal and bloody the

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Speaker 1: conduct of this war, the more possibility of escalation across

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Speaker 1: the region from the Huthis, from Hesbalah and from other

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Speaker 1: actors who will feel compelled to stand up for Palestinians,

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Speaker 1: and you will obviously inflame tensions, not to mention, of course,

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Speaker 1: the human carnage that all of that will will create.

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Speaker 1: So that's effectively where we are. But it's it seems

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Speaker 1: like the biggest concerns right now, Sager, are on the

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Speaker 1: Lebanese front.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, a couple of different places, because some multiple

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Speaker 2: things could escalate all at the same time and each

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Speaker 2: could create like a poly crisis, if you will. So

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Speaker 2: let's go and put this up there on the screen

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Speaker 2: for what people can see. The Huthis are now warning

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Speaker 2: that they will target every single ship which is headed

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Speaker 2: to Israel. Now we've broken it down before, but the

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Speaker 2: Red Sea remains one of the most strategic choke points

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Speaker 2: in the entire world, and the Houthis have already shown

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Speaker 2: at least a limited capability at the very least in

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Speaker 2: disrupting global shipping, skyrocketing insurance rates and targeting Israeli flagged vessels,

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Speaker 2: as well as shooting at the very least that uk

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Speaker 2: flagged and other places with US guided missile destroyers engaging

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Speaker 2: drones and other things. So the war on the Sea

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Speaker 2: actually could have this most significant impact on the global economy.

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Speaker 2: But from oil shipping to weapons production, food, the same

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Speaker 2: thing that happened in the Black Sea after Ukraine is

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Speaker 2: the same thing that we could be seeing here. And

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Speaker 2: imagine two major global conflagrations in two of the most

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Speaker 2: strategic choke points in the entire world. For thee that's

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Speaker 2: a massive job for the US Navy and one that

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Speaker 2: would significantly heighten tensions. But you're also right, let's go

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Speaker 2: and put this up there on the screen in terms

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Speaker 2: of what we see from the bide from the Netanyahu

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Speaker 2: administration currently telling Biden behind the scenes quote, Israel will

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Speaker 2: act militarily against the Yemen's Huthies if the US won't.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Yemen and Israel are not all that close together,

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Speaker 2: which would mean a significant increase not only in the

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Speaker 2: air war, but likely the use of strategic missiles, you know,

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Speaker 2: medium range missiles as well as well as missile defense systems,

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Speaker 2: and this conflict crystal. I have no doubt the Hasbolo one,

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Speaker 2: I think would also be a conflagration. But I think

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Speaker 2: the Yemen one is the single biggest threat to embroiling

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Speaker 2: the United States in a broader war, simply because we

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Speaker 2: have already shown a willingness to shoot down multiple missiles

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Speaker 2: fired from Yemen with our guided missile destroyer. Our missile

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Speaker 2: destroyers also have stepped up as the protection role in

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Speaker 2: the Red Sea for the UK flag ship vessels and

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Speaker 2: all that. So it's only a matter of time, and

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Speaker 2: it only takes and these look the Houthis. They may

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Speaker 2: have better technology than than Hezbolah and or the Hummas

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Speaker 2: inside of Gaza, but this is still you know, rinky dank.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it only takes a

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Speaker 2: single missile to go off course and to kill a

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Speaker 2: US sailor and that's it.

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Speaker 3: It's game on.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think people have understood the strategic importance

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Speaker 2: of what that will look like. On top of the

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Speaker 2: Hezbolah situation, which threatens to also bring Syrian militias into

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Speaker 2: the war. Remember, they can escalate against our troops there already.

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Speaker 2: The ground force commanders in Iraq are sounding the alarm.

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Speaker 2: But like we are sitting ducks here for all of

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Speaker 2: the you know, equipment and missile defense and all that

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Speaker 2: stuff we have here pitidly little rockets that come in

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Speaker 2: and out. You can ask US forces it's served in Iraq.

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Speaker 2: Eventually one's going to hit somebody. Yeah, and that, you know,

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Speaker 2: takes things to another level. So we're in We're not

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Speaker 2: in a good place right now in the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: So that's the danger with regard to the houthis the

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Speaker 1: other thing. I mean, they're effectively waging and economic war

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Speaker 1: on Israel because they're saying no ship that is headed

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Speaker 1: for Israel is going to get through here. Specifically, they say,

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Speaker 1: if Gaza does not receive the food medicine and needs

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Speaker 1: all ships in the Red Seat bound for Israeli portse

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Speaker 1: regardless of their nationality will become a target for our

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Speaker 1: armed forces. Now that obviously creates risks and dangers for

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Speaker 1: those ships in the region. But the other thing it

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Speaker 1: does is it massively spikes the insurance rates for any

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Speaker 1: Israeli ship and any Israeli flagship or any ship that

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Speaker 1: is heading to Israel that is going to have a

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Speaker 1: major economic impact globally but in particular on Israel. So

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Speaker 1: that is the leverage that they are planning to use

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Speaker 1: in this conflict. And it's not just a thread at

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Speaker 1: this point. I mean, they already obviously have taken clear action,

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Speaker 1: and now you have Israel effectively saying, hey us, you're

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Speaker 1: not doing enough. Which listen, they can find their own business.

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Speaker 1: They can find their own business on that front. But

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Speaker 1: they're saying, if you don't take more action, we're going

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Speaker 1: to get more involved. But that's not the only place.

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Speaker 1: As I was saying before with regard to Lebanon, put

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Speaker 1: this up on the screen. They are also directly threatening Hesbla.

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Speaker 1: This is from the Times of Israel. The headline here

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Speaker 1: reads national Security Advisor. This is the Israeli National Security

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Speaker 1: Advisor indicates war against Hesbela likely once Hamas is defeated.

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Speaker 1: So they are saying pretty clearly here that they don't

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Speaker 1: really want the second front in the war right now,

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Speaker 1: but they are very much testing the waters for potential

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Speaker 1: war against Hesbela after they wrap up their war on Gaza.

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Speaker 1: The quote here is we can no longer accept Hesbela's

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Speaker 1: Radwan force sitting on the border. We can no longer

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Speaker 1: accept Resolution seventeen oh one not being implemented. That refers

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Speaker 1: to a UN Security Council resolution from two thousand and

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Speaker 1: six that barred any Hesbela presence from within almost thirty

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Speaker 1: kilometers of the border with Israel as directly if there

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Speaker 1: would be a war in the north. This national security

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Speaker 1: advisor said, the situation in the North must be changed,

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Speaker 1: and it will if Hesbola agrees to change things via diplomacy,

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Speaker 1: very good, but I don't believe it will. He goes

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Speaker 1: on to say, therefore, when the day comes, Israel will

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Speaker 1: have to act ensure that residents of the North are

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Speaker 1: no longer displaced in their land and to guarantee for

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Speaker 1: them that the situation in the North has changed. She

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Speaker 1: said Israel doesn't want to fight simultaneously on two fronts,

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Speaker 1: indicated it would therefore tackle Hesbla after Hamas has defeated.

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Speaker 1: He said, Israel has been quote making clear to the

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Speaker 1: Americans we are not interested in war in the North,

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Speaker 1: but that we will have no alternative but to impose

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Speaker 1: a new reality if Hesbela remains a threat, And that

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Speaker 1: part about that UN resolution peace is being read effectively

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Speaker 1: as like a trial balloon for justification for some sort

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Speaker 1: of like international justification is basically like the cover that

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Speaker 1: they would use to justify to the US why they

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Speaker 1: have to then wage this war on Hesbela.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's reminds me of whenever we invaded Iraq because

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Speaker 2: Saddamis wasn't complying with these UN resolutions. Right, that'll totally

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Speaker 2: be a proper justification. I actually read this as a

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Speaker 2: way for Netan Yaho to be able to wind down

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Speaker 2: things in Gaza but remain in the state of war

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Speaker 2: for Israel, so that he can stay in power as

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Speaker 2: long as possible. The longer that we more that we

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Speaker 2: get away from October seventh, the less the questions of hey,

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Speaker 2: so what did you do on October sixth exactly, and

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Speaker 2: why did all of these people just simply ignore these

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Speaker 2: intelligence warnings? The more that we can make the situation

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Speaker 2: about what's going on with external threats to the State

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Speaker 2: of Israel. The better it is from Neta Yah, who

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Speaker 2: every day that the war goes on is better for

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Speaker 2: him and for the Israelis. They're telegraphing they're going to

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Speaker 2: need about two more months or so inside of Gaza.

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Speaker 2: That's a long time for the people in Gaza. It's

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Speaker 2: not a long time for nata Yahu. So what's the

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Speaker 2: better way to do that? You escalate the war with

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Speaker 2: Hezbolah and then it's a lot like what happened with Iraq.

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Speaker 2: By two thousand and four, the national debate in this

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Speaker 2: country had nothing to do with Bin Laden and al

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Speaker 2: Qaeda and had everything to do with the security situation

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Speaker 2: in the country, which had nothing to do with nine

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Speaker 2: to eleven in the first place.

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Speaker 3: It's a great distraction strategy and.

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Speaker 2: It's what helped win Bush his second term in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four. I'm the one who's going to keep

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Speaker 2: us safe by continuing the war in Iraq and not

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Speaker 2: in Afghanistan. So I think Natanya, who's you know, watched

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Speaker 2: this entire thing play out in many ways. He played

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Speaker 2: an integral role in some of the events that were

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Speaker 2: happening at that time.

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Speaker 3: That's his best strategy for reelection.

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Speaker 1: Well, and this is something we can talk to Dahlia,

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Speaker 1: our Israeli polster about today. She was just interviewed in

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Speaker 1: The New Yorker and she was pointing out that almost

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Speaker 1: everybody wants Netanyahu gon his very little support left.

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Speaker 4: The expectation is that as soon.

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Speaker 1: As the war is over, he's basically going to be

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Speaker 1: forced down or have to resign. But if you ask people, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you want him to go right now, it's only

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Speaker 1: about a quarter of people who want him to go

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Speaker 1: right now. The remainder say, after the war is over,

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Speaker 1: then we want you to go. But you know, the

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Speaker 1: sense is like, we can't have this change in this

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Speaker 1: chaos in the midst of this conflict, so we need

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Speaker 1: to keep him there.

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Speaker 4: Until the war is over.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he has every incentive in the world to

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Speaker 1: drag this thing out as long as possible. And I

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Speaker 1: mean this is classic politics, one on one. We see

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Speaker 1: it here all the time. We saw it, you know,

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Speaker 1: it came to mind. It was a very different situation.

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Speaker 1: It's not analogous, but after what happened in East Palestine

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Speaker 1: and Ohio, and there was all these calls for increased

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Speaker 1: rail safety, and of course the rail companies didn't want

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Speaker 1: that whatsoever, and so their whole strategy was, well, let's

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Speaker 1: just let's do a study, let's push it out, let's

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Speaker 1: delay it and let the heat die down. It's the

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Speaker 1: same strategy that's being deployed here. He's hoping that people

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Speaker 1: forget how up set they are, how disappointed they are,

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Speaker 1: how much he failed, how much his doctrine which he

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Speaker 1: has bet on to keep his power, which was effectively

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Speaker 1: to block any hope of a Palestinian statehood, to promise

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Speaker 1: he could control the height of the flames, to promise

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Speaker 1: he was mister Security and no one had to worry

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Speaker 1: about anything, and you could just maintain the status quo indefinitely.

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Speaker 4: That was his whole doctrine that.

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Speaker 1: Completely failed on October seventh, not to mention the incredible

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Speaker 1: intelligence and security failures that led them to fail in

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Speaker 1: anticipating and in responding to those massacres and those atrocities

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Speaker 1: that Hamas committed on October seventh. So he's hoping that

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Speaker 1: over time people will forget that, and the rawness of

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Speaker 1: that emotion will go away. And so saga. I think

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Speaker 1: you make a fantastic point about why they're saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: after this war is over and after you know, whatever

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Speaker 1: the US decides, we're actually done watching us commit these

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Speaker 1: atrocities in Gaza and force us to stop there. This

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Speaker 1: is the next front in the war that we're going

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Speaker 1: to open up, and this UN resolution is the fig

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Speaker 1: leaf of justification that we're going to use for continuing there.

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Speaker 3: Good luck.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the this like for Gaza,

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Speaker 2: for all the fear of escalation, at least for now,

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Speaker 2: it's been about two months or so that military operations

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Speaker 2: have continued in the Strip, and we haven't seen mass mobilization,

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Speaker 2: but it's still very young in the conflict and the

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Speaker 2: fear of escalation and the way.

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Speaker 3: Things can go in Yemen and in Hesbolah.

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Speaker 2: Also, don't forget about Syria, don't forget about our roles

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Speaker 2: there and all of our other allies that we have

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Speaker 2: across the world. This could significantly cause a massive conflagration,

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Speaker 2: and it can happen very very quickly. As I laid out,

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Speaker 2: all it takes is a single US sailor one missile

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Speaker 2: that goes the wrong way.

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Speaker 3: Same with the Israelis.

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Speaker 2: We've already seen misfires from the Israelis, if you'll remember

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Speaker 2: Crystal that accidentally fired into Egypt. These are very very

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Speaker 2: confusing situations when things go hot like this, so we

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Speaker 2: never know, and it's clearly in the direct interest of

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Speaker 2: the Nets and Yahu government to continue this as long

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Speaker 2: as possible. Hesbola would be the perfect excuse. I think

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Speaker 2: though that given the way things are going in Gaza,

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Speaker 2: and we'll talk about this in a military that would

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Speaker 2: be look Hesbola, as we've always laid out as significantly

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Speaker 2: more militarily capable as low as well as the Houthis

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Speaker 2: in Yemen, and it would cause a hell of a

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Speaker 2: lot more idea of casualties and even what they've seen

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Speaker 2: in Gaza right now, so the population would also, you know,

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Speaker 2: it would give them a reason, I think, to rebel possibly.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure you know what the political situation would remain,

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Speaker 2: but you start seeing hundreds and hundreds of killed in

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Speaker 2: action and thought tens of thousands of people who are wounded.

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Speaker 3: It's a small country.

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Speaker 2: You don't have that many young men who are capable,

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Speaker 2: right and got three hundred thousand in total strength.

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Speaker 1: And there's been a huge economic impact as well, and

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Speaker 1: will probably cover this tomorrow, but Haret's actually uncovered that

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Speaker 1: the IDF was lying about their casualty figures by.

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Speaker 4: An astonishing amount.

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Speaker 1: So we'll get into some more of that tomorrow and

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Speaker 1: what we can glean of what the casualty numbers actually are,

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Speaker 1: and they are much higher than what the Israelis have

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Speaker 1: been presenting. Also unfolding this morning, the IDF has been

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Speaker 1: forced to apologize after shocking photos emerged of Palestinians who

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Speaker 1: had been detained, men military aged men who had been detained,

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Speaker 1: and these humiliating photos came out that many people were called.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was like Abu Grabe two point zero

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Speaker 1: the nature of these They were stripped down to their underwear, blindfolded,

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Speaker 1: hands bound, forced to kneel. And initially so the IDF

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Speaker 1: is claiming, hey, we weren't the ones that released these photos. Well,

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Speaker 1: someone among your ranks obviously were the ones that released

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Speaker 1: these photos. Initially they were saying, oh, these are all

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Speaker 1: Hamas militants who surrendered. Now they're admitting that according to

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Speaker 1: their numbers, which take this with a million grains of salt,

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Speaker 1: they say it was only ten to fifteen percent of

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Speaker 1: these men were actually Hamas militants, and they said that

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Speaker 1: although it had been necessary to strip them to ensure

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Speaker 1: they weren't carrying explosives, showing the photos was needless and humiliating.

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Speaker 1: After a global outcry, let's go ahead and put these

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Speaker 1: photos up on the screen so you can see what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. For those of you who are just listening,

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Speaker 1: this is a video that you can see here of

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Speaker 1: these men stripped down to their underwear on the ground.

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Speaker 1: These individuals are being forced to kneel, also in their underwear,

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Speaker 1: with their hands bound. These are being transported in trucks,

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Speaker 1: and again the original story we're getting as oh, these

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Speaker 1: are all Hamas militants who are surrendering. You can see

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Speaker 1: this man who is carrying a gun and he is

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Speaker 1: coming forward and laying it down. One of the immediate

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Speaker 1: questions that emerged here is you're about to see another

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Speaker 1: version of this same video, and Al Jazeera and others

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Speaker 1: reporting that it appears they made this man do this

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Speaker 1: twice for their little propaganda video that they're filming here.

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Speaker 4: And this man has.

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Speaker 1: Been identified as a small business owner, by the way,

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Speaker 1: with no known ties to Hamas, so that's where we are.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put this next piece up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. The Israeli military originally sat on Thursday at

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Speaker 1: appo hundred hundreds of people suspected of terrorism. Of course,

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Speaker 1: now they are walking all of that back, and NBC

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Speaker 1: reported on who these men actually were, so even before

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Speaker 1: Israel admitted that many of these men were civilians. You

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Speaker 1: can see this individual who's circled here. This is a journalist.

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Speaker 1: This is a journalist for at the New.

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Speaker 4: Arab's Arabic Service.

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Speaker 1: Others are relatives of a DC based fundraiser for a

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Speaker 1: UN agency. So people were able to spot civilians in

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Speaker 1: this picture. In these pictures. Mainstream outlets actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: did journalism and exposed that these were not, in fact

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Speaker 1: all Hamas militants, and I think that's what pressured the

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Speaker 1: IDF to actually come out and have to apologize and

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that these were They claim some of them were

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Speaker 1: Hamas militants.

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Speaker 4: You can take that with a grain of salt, but.

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Speaker 1: It's important to remember also what they were originally saying

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Speaker 1: when they were originally pressed on these photos, which spread

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Speaker 1: like wildfire and can have tremendously radicalizing impacts. Not to

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Speaker 1: mention just you know, the amoral nature of humiliating these

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Speaker 1: men who, most of whom did nothing wrong. Mark Regev,

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Speaker 1: who's a senior advisor to Israeli Prime Minister and Netnyahuo,

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Speaker 1: was questioned by Sky News on why they did this

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Speaker 1: and what exactly was going on here.

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Speaker 4: Just listen to his response.

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Speaker 5: What was the purpose of the exercise that was going

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Speaker 5: on at that point in that part of Gaza.

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Speaker 6: First, I will remember it's the Middle East and it's

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Speaker 6: warmer here, and especially during the day when it's sunny,

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Speaker 6: it's to be asked to take off your shirt. It

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Speaker 6: might not be pleasant, but it's not the end of

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Speaker 6: the world.

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Speaker 5: But the fact that some of those were taken in

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Speaker 5: that particular incident have now been released suggests that they

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Speaker 5: were not members of Hamas. And whilst you were entitled

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Speaker 5: to rind people up in that manner, what the IDF

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Speaker 5: is not entitled to do under the Geneva Convention is

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Speaker 5: breached the Third Convention, which you did, didn't you when

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Speaker 5: you filmed them in those positions.

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Speaker 6: So once again, I don't think we're talking about formal

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Speaker 6: material that was released, and we have to look to

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Speaker 6: have the video deal.

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Speaker 5: If it proves to be filmed by the IDF, that's

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Speaker 5: neither here nor there. Neither is the temperature in the

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Speaker 5: Middle East.

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Speaker 6: Understand, I understand, But I think the important thing he

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Speaker 6: is to remember these are military aged men who were

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Speaker 6: arrested in a combat zone, and as you've reported, people

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Speaker 6: have already been released. We have no intention of keeping

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Speaker 6: innocent people in custody.

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Speaker 5: Which I agree with it, but I'm sorry to press

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Speaker 5: you on this point. But if people have been released

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Speaker 5: because they're not members of Hamas, if this was filmed

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Speaker 5: by the IDEF, it is a clear breach of the

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Speaker 5: Geneva Convention, is it not?

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Speaker 6: So once again we have to look into where the

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Speaker 6: video came from. It's not official video that was released

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Speaker 6: by the State of Israel.

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Speaker 5: If it were filmed by the IDF, as I just said,

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Speaker 5: it would be a breach of the Geneva Convention, would

438
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 5: it not.

439
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 6: So I'm not familiar with that level of international law.

440
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 1: It's the Middle East, it's warm, and I don't really

441
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: understand internation is.

442
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 3: The other problem? Well, then here's the other thing.

443
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 2: And take all your soldiers' phones away, because who else

444
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 2: is behind a machine gun which is an idea of

445
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: convo was taking pictures of these guys and spreading it

446
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: on social media. That's something that you as soldiers have

447
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: learned a long time ago, and turking their phones away

448
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: from these people because by the road, we shouldn't be

449
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: trusted twenty two year olds with them.

450
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: And by the way, listen, the IDF was also bragging

451
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: about how they were rounding up militants. So I don't

452
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 1: totally take them at face value either when they say

453
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: they're so unhappy with these photos things.

454
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: So let's actually just get to the crux of it.

455
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's a reasonable question. I'm like, okay, well,

456
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: there's a justification here about the visual check for suicide

457
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 2: bomber and first suicide vest.

458
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 3: I think that's entirely reasonable.

459
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: Actually, I look though, to people who actually served in

460
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: the US military during Iraq, especially at the time two

461
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: thousand and four and onward, when we had to deal

462
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: with a very similar situation. And actually one of the

463
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 2: generals who was in charge of that time, major General

464
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 2: Charlie Herbert, who's now retired, let's go and put this

465
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. He was part of the

466
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: coalition inside of Iraq, and this was the analysis he gave.

467
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: He says, quote, I don't question the need for visual

468
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 2: checks for suicide vests, that standard standard operating procedure when

469
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: dealing with the suspected bomber. But in thirty four years

470
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: of challenging infantry soldiering, I have never once seen scenes

471
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 2: like this in the idea of photos, not once do

472
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 2: a cursory online search and trying to find equivalents. Isis

473
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 2: maybe abu grabe, but you will not find many photos

474
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: of soldiers in democratically elected nation treating suspects like that.

475
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 3: Don't suggest that it is a standard practice.

476
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: It looks far more to me like a determined, deliberate

477
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: effort to humiliate the great and to humanize. It is

478
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: not one million as bad as what Hamas did on

479
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: October seventh.

480
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: But that's not the point, is it.

481
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 2: So I really look to the people who professionally were

482
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: in charge at that situation. And one of the things

483
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: that has also come out, and I went back and

484
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: checked as well, is that the FDF initial release at SDF,

485
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: which were the Syrian Democratic Forces, which were the US

486
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 2: backed coalition against Isis, whenever they would round up literal

487
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: ISIS fighters who let's all remember, those are the guys

488
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: who are responsible for enslaving and raping their wives. And

489
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: even they did not strip them, and they would line

490
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 2: them up and make sure that they were to make

491
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: sure that they didn't have their arms.

492
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 3: They would separate women and children.

493
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: But even amongst the men, they're largely I wouldn't say

494
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 2: they're treated humanly per se, but they were not treated

495
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: in a similar fashion. And that was people who I

496
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 2: think have the best justification for just shooting all these

497
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: people in the head. And that's the problem I think

498
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: for Israel is that from a recruiting level, this is

499
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: going to be a real problem, and it's already spread

500
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: across WhatsApp, across the entire Arab world, which is far

501
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: more online today.

502
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: And they were in two thousand and four.

503
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: You can ask any person who was in command in

504
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, two thousand and five in Iraq,

505
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: the Al Qaeda in Iraq and all of the Islamic propagandists,

506
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: Abu Grabe was the number one recruiting tool that they had,

507
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: those photos that they published and spread everywhere, and which

508
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 2: US commanders eventually, at least, I guess to our credit,

509
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: we apologized for it, and we were like, look, this

510
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 2: is totally against everything that we stand for. I forget

511
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: what that woman's name was, Lindsay or whatever she was.

512
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: I believe they were court martialed and they were brought

513
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: before military justice. The US commander in Iraq, I think

514
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: is Ricardo Sanchez at that time, even was reamed out

515
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: by President Bush and others said this is not what

516
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 2: we're all about.

517
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: So I think the IDF has got a problem on

518
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: their hands.

519
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 2: And it also just is one of those where when

520
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 2: you only have ten to fifteen percent, that's a propaganda disaster.

521
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 2: If you know, they didn't find a suicide vest, and

522
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: then people were like, well, why did they have weapons

523
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: in the first place. Another lesson that we all learned

524
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: in Iraq, in Afghanistan and in Syria. A lot of

525
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: people in these places have guns. A lot of normal

526
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: citizens just like we do. They've got rifles and other things,

527
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: and not only protect their own property. It's actually a

528
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: deep part of Arab culture now at this point. So

529
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of a lot of their explanations

530
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: just do not really rise to what they initially put

531
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: out there. And some of their propagandists here in the

532
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: West who were like, well, this is exactly how America

533
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: dealt with POW's in Iraq. It's like, no, we actually

534
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 2: did not do that very intentionally. And then ask ask

535
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: anybody who served five oh six, you know, and all

536
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: the way throughout, unless you were a Guantanamo type detainee,

537
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: you were not seeing something like this.

538
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: It is sort of remarkable to see the just like

539
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: reflexive pro Israel voices online just auto defend these photos

540
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: and cheer them, also cheer them say oh, this is

541
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: Hamas surrendering and this is great, this is fantastic, this

542
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: is fully justified. And then even the IDF having to

543
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: come out and apologize for these images and distance themselves

544
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: all this was not we had nothing to do with this.

545
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: With this, okay, then who was it who released.

546
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: The photos, Who was it who took the photos, Who

547
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: was it who took these multiple videos that ultimately emerged.

548
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: And you know, the first thing that came to mind

549
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: for me was actually there was a deeply researched piece

550
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: about how the FBI so intentionally radicalized this young muscle man.

551
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: This was classic War on Terror era tactics, you know,

552
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: to effectively radicalize these young men and then entrap them

553
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: in some sort of a plot so that they could

554
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: be oh, look at us, we're disrupting terrorism, we're keeping

555
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: people safe, et cetera.

556
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 4: Et cetera.

557
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: Of course, these plots never would have been hatched if

558
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: the FBI wasn't pushing them in that direction anyway. But

559
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: in one of these instances, I believe it was for

560
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: this man who supposedly was gonna bomb Harold Square, it

561
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: was the images of Abu Grave that they used to

562
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: try to get him on the path to radicalization. This

563
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: was the most effective propaganda tool for our own FBI

564
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: in radicalizing people, and obviously for is Miss Jihattist to

565
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: radicalize young men and to their cause. So when you

566
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: think about the supposedly the core goal here, which I

567
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: think is total bullshit for reasons that we've discussed previously,

568
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: but the idea that we're going to eradicate hamas, you

569
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: are creating more militants. You are radicalizing people far more

570
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: effectively than you are. You're certainly not deradicalizing anyone, and

571
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: you're doing it far more effectively radicalizing people than you

572
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: are at actually identifying and capturing hamas militants or killing

573
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: them on the battlefield. So let's also be clear, you know,

574
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: put this next piece up on the screen. This is

575
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: putting us at risk because around the world it is

576
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: very clear that we are one hundred percent behind Israel's action.

577
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: So when things like this emerge, it's not just the

578
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: Israelis who are taking the blowback here, it's also US.

579
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: Case in point here, the US stood alone in the

580
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: world to veto this UN resolution that not only demanded

581
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: an immediate ceasefire, but also call for the release of

582
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: all the hostages. So you can't even pretend this is

583
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: like about the hostages. We have to get the hostage. No,

584
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: this resolution called for the release of the hostages. This

585
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: is you know, the fifteen member Security Council. The vote

586
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: was thirteen to one. We were the one, by the way,

587
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: with the UK abstaining it. Says in this article the

588
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: US is isolated. Stand reflected a growing fracture between Washington

589
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: and some of it's closest allies over Israel's months long

590
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: bombardment of Gaza. France and Japan were among those supporting

591
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: the call for a ceasefire. We also enabled the Russians

592
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: to grand stand here, saying that history will judge Washington's

593
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: actions in the face of what the Russian deputy UN

594
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: ambassador called a merciless Israeli bloodbath.

595
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 3: So all of.

596
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 4: These talk right, exactly, absolutely right.

597
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: But as these images emerge, as we learn more about

598
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: the atrocities being committed on the ground, keep in mind

599
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: those are US made bombs. No, everyone sees through Biden's

600
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: little leak into the process of oh, We're so concerned

601
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: or Tony blinkin coming out. Too many innocent civilians have

602
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: been killed. Everyone sees through that. Everyone knows Washington has

603
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: greenlit all of these actions. We stand behind Israel, we

604
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: say there's no red lines. We have done nothing other

605
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: than leak to the press, how morally concerned we are

606
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: to actually stop any of this from happening. So it's

607
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: not just people being radicalized against Israel, it's them being

608
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 1: radicalized against us too. So keep that in mind when

609
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: you see any of these images emerging here.

610
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 3: I am very worried about it, I really am.

611
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: And I just think I'm going to apply the same

612
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: logic that I did to Ukraine, is Israel and Ali.

613
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, is it worth the level of blowback? And now

614
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: just think about this too.

615
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: It's been two straight months, even on this show and

616
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: every other show, this is the number one topic of

617
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: conversation for a faraway third world ethnic conflict, which is

618
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: what it is at the end of the day. Does

619
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: it really bear the total obsession of the global elite?

620
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: And then think about this about all the people in

621
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: the region and about our support in the same way

622
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: that we had everybody turned against us after Iraq, even

623
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: though everybody was with us after nine to eleven. I'm

624
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: really worried about what And Glenn Greenwall's been making this

625
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: point as well, about polarizing the rest of the world

626
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: against us. First, we did it on Ukraine, a conflict

627
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: which again has no bearing on any of us. You

628
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: could actually make a better argument, I think for why

629
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: it is. The situation in Ukraine has more effect on

630
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: US national security than you can for Israel. And yet

631
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: that is what our elites and all this stuff decided

632
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: is the number one, single most important thing. I think

633
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: it's literal madness. And we're exerting all this foreign policy

634
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: and bleeding all of this soft power and capital abroad

635
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: for what. And we very rarely have gotten very much

636
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: out of this deal. But they're powerful political constituencies here

637
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 2: in America who this is their soul. This is what

638
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: they have worked for seventy five years, and they've been very,

639
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: very successful at doing it. So I guess congratulations to

640
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: all of them. That's actually a perfect segue to our

641
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: next segment about the campus canceled culture her madness that

642
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: is going on right now. BRA got everybody an update

643
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: over the weekend where the Penn Wharton Board called for

644
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: the resignation of then president of UPenn Liz McGill, even

645
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: after a hostage video that she put out in which

646
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: she apologized for her quote unquote appalling remarks and to

647
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: try to make and set the record clear. It wasn't enough,

648
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: but we still never played the video for you, so

649
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: we wanted to give people a taste.

650
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

651
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 7: There was a moment during yesterday's Congressional hearing on anti

652
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 7: Semitism when I was asked if a call for the

653
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 7: genocide of Jewish people on our campus would violate our policies.

654
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 7: In that moment, I was focused on our university's long

655
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,239
Speaker 7: standing policies aligned with the US Constitution, which say that

656
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 7: speech alone is not punishable. I was not focused on

657
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 7: but I should have been the irrefutable fact that a

658
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 7: call for genocide Jewish people is a call for some

659
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 7: of the most terrible violence.

660
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 8: Human beings can perpetrate. It's evil.

661
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 7: We are seeing signs of hate proliferating across our campus

662
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 7: and our world in a way not seen in years.

663
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 7: These policies need to be clarified and evaluated.

664
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: Clarified and evaluated.

665
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: And so even though she basically caved in video and

666
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, guys, I'll just make our speech policies

667
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: on campus even more draconian and stupid, wasn't enough for

668
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: the donors and for the board. Let's go and put

669
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. The president, Liz McGill,

670
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: has officially now resigned amid the quote unquote controversy over

671
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: anti Semitism.

672
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: And at least they're honest.

673
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: Here after leaving from intense pressure from donors, politicians, and alumni.

674
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: I think donors and the politicians going to be the

675
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: number one and number two forces you and everybody from

676
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: the freaking governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, Chuck Schumer, Elizabeth Warren,

677
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: even you know, all these so called like people who

678
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: stand for liberal values and all of this, who came

679
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: out on top of the billionaire hedge fund manager Bill Ackman,

680
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 2: who has been the ringleader, and multiple other billionaires, including

681
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: one who said he would withhold a one hundred million

682
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: dollar donation from the University of Pennsylvania. But a lot

683
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: of this is about long standing tensions about policies on campus. So,

684
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: for example, donors have pressured McGill repeatedly prior to her

685
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: testimony to try and to cancel Palestinian literary events that

686
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: happened in the summer. So this is even pre Crystal

687
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: October seventh Palestinian events that were happening on campus, where

688
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: this was a huge and facilitating part of the reason

689
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: that she was ultimately told to resign. Now, I think

690
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: let's lay out a couple of things, because the number

691
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: one critique is like, look, we're just giving him a

692
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: taste to our own medicine.

693
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: Okay, congratulations.

694
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: You know why, because the new policy that is being

695
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: set forth by the University of Pennsylvania is ten times worse.

696
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: And if you think you're on the right and you

697
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: are going to escape this, you are delusional. Putting this

698
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: up there on the screen, this is the new policy

699
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: that is being floated. The Wharton Board of Advisors has

700
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: proposed this resolution that will punish any student or faculty

701
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: member that quote uses hate speech.

702
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 3: Or celebrates murder or genocide.

703
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: Students will not celebrate or advocate for the murder, killing, genocide,

704
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: or annihilation of any individual, classmate, quote, or any group

705
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: of individuals in our community. Students, faculty, and employees will

706
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: not engage in hate speech, whether veiled or explicit, that

707
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: incites violence. Students will not use language that threatens the

708
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: physical safety of community members. Students will who violate the

709
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 2: above standards will be subject to immediate discipline. And I

710
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: laid this out over the weekend, Christal, I want you

711
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: to weigh in here as well. The initial value of

712
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: the judgment was this, anybody who calls for a harm

713
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: to another group of people should be immediately expelled.

714
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 3: Well, what the hell does that mean?

715
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: We've now lived through a decade of safetiest language, where

716
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: writing op eds is considered violence against black people, where

717
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: believing in like sex, believing in like sex at birth

718
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: is considered genocide against trans people. Who do you think

719
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: that this is going to be used against this type

720
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: of language? And yeah, would they have immediately called for

721
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: expulsion on that. Yes, Okay, they're hypocrites. So what the

722
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: point is is that what we have here is clearly

723
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: a policy which will be used to wield expulsion against

724
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: anybody who just goes against whatever the quote unquote current

725
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: thing is. And sure that might be Israel today, but

726
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: in my opinion, this new anti anti Semitism thing, this

727
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: is the new BLM, This is the new like anti racism.

728
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 2: And to be honest, it might even be more powerful.

729
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 4: Oh in terms of there's no doubt about it.

730
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: Look how they capitulated, instantly capitulated, Like no one has

731
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: been more effective at fighting free speech and ensuring and

732
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: enshrining censorship than this movement right now. So effective, instant capitulation,

733
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: it's incredible. I mean, reading this resolution, students will not

734
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: engage in hate speech.

735
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 4: Whether veiled or explicit.

736
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: What does that mean?

737
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 4: And that's the other.

738
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: Piece of this is there is not like you would think,

739
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: seeing this whole freak out, which is one hundred percent

740
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: completely manufactured to distract from the horrific images coming out

741
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: of Gaza, you would think from this freak out that

742
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: there's some epidemic of college students just out there like

743
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: I want to genocide the Jews. No, they're talking about

744
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: chance like from the River to the Sea, which many

745
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: people when they say it mean one state with equal rights,

746
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: that's not a genocide, okay, Or things like globalize the

747
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: into fada Intofada is for many people. Yes, both intofadas

748
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: contained some violence, but it is also just a means

749
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: of calling for resistance. So you're going to leave it

750
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: to these university administrators to decide what is hate speech

751
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: and what isn't you know, many people feel right now

752
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: that Israel is conducting at cleansing and on their way

753
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: to a genocide. Is showing the Israeli flag tantamount to

754
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: hate speech, tantamount to calling for genocide and violence against

755
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: groups of people on university campuses. It could be construed

756
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: that way, should it be, of course not. It's insane

757
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: when these university presidents were asked the question. Yes, it

758
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: was awkward, of course, when someone's like, do you condemn genocide?

759
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 4: Is it against the policy?

760
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: If you're trying to, you know, actually lay out your

761
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: policy in a way that's nuanced, it's gonna sound kind

762
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: of bad. But they had the right position of listen,

763
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: if it's directly bullying and harassing student, of course, but

764
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: if it's just speech, then no, that's free speech. So

765
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: the two pieces, the three pieces of this that drive

766
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: me insane is Number one is completely manufactured. No one

767
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: ever gives the actual statements that students are making. I've

768
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: never seen anyone offer an example. Maybe there's one out there,

769
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: but I've never seen anyone offer an example where students

770
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: are directly like, let's genocide the Jews. Okay, that's number one,

771
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: completely obviously manufactured. Number two the hypocrisy of these people

772
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: who three seconds ago were free speech absolutists, anti cancel culture, etc.

773
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: Flip on the dime and are more effective at getting

774
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: censorship enshrined than anyone has been.

775
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 4: That's number two.

776
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: And number three the fact that this is being so

777
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: dishonestly portrayed of what is actually unfolding on these college campuses.

778
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: You know, this is what the ADL, for example, wants.

779
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: They want any criticism of the state of Israel, any

780
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: criticism of Zionism, which is a political project, to be

781
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: construed as anti Semitic and quote unquote violence against Jewish people.

782
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: And it is utter and complete nonsense, complete nonsense. And

783
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: by the way, one thing that does make Jewish people

784
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: less safe is by tying every Jewish person to a

785
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: state that is right now committing horrific atrocities and making

786
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: it so you can't critique that. I mean, this just

787
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: to me is like the definition of insanity. And I

788
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: think when we look back at this period and we're

789
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: really able to take in the thousands of kids that

790
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: have been killed, the journalists who have been massacred, the

791
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: utter destruction of Gaza on a level greater than even

792
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: the bombings that we were doing in World War Two

793
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: of Dresden and other German cities, When we really take

794
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: that in and we realize the bulk of our national

795
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: conversation was focused on invented, like not even real calls

796
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: for genocide on college campuses that didn't even happen, we're

797
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: gonna think this was utterly and completely insane. But right now,

798
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: so many people are just caught up in the moment.

799
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is now, this is what they do. It's

800
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: pretty amazing. Let's go and put this up there on

801
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: the screen too, so you can see this. So we've

802
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: got actresses like Noah tishbe Amy Schumer, Deborah Messing who

803
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: are now calling for the FBI to investigate these groups

804
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: on campuses and for quote universities to ban them everywhere.

805
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is.

806
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 4: For Glenn greenwaal, Yeah, probably already is mitigating.

807
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 3: By the way of it, they almost certainly are.

808
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 2: And then I actually appreciate this one the most because

809
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: this person just came out and put it all in

810
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 2: the open. Let's put this next piece up on the screen.

811
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: I actually want to read some of it to you.

812
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: To fight anti Semitism on campuses, we must restrict speech.

813
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: This is Professor Claire Finkelstein, a Briddle Professor of Law

814
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 2: and Philosophy at the University of Pennsylvania. She is also

815
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: a member of the school's Open Expression Committee and chair

816
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 2: of the Committee on Academic Freedom. Can you believe that

817
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: this is the law school chair of academic Freedom and

818
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 2: Expression committee who says that we must restrict speech. And

819
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: she lays it out on completely and entirely in a

820
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: way that you can't even make up. She just says

821
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: university presidence should resist a conclusion of free speech rather

822
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: than confront the conflict. Conflict between the commitment to free

823
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: speech and the commitment to eliminating the hostile environment facing

824
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: Jewish students on campus. People affirm their commitment to both,

825
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: but by time, by setting up task courses to problem

826
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 2: started the problem. Some have attempted to split this difference.

827
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: Countering speech with more speech might just mean adding to

828
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: hateful rhetoric on campus and would not solve the problem.

829
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: Universities can set up all the task forces that they

830
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: want while war and groups are busy calling for each

831
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 2: other's violent demise. She then lays out a multifaceted case

832
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: as to why, actually, under the Civil Rights Act and

833
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 2: Title seven, that they must ensure campuses don't descend into

834
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: hostile environments, that public universities should not be bound by

835
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: the First Amendment, and even private ones like pen, Harvard

836
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: and MIT, and then ultimately just says this, though expression

837
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 2: and academic freedom are critically important values in higher education,

838
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: there are other values that universities must promote as well,

839
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: like encouraging civil dialogue, cultivating critical listening, and developing the

840
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: skills to build community relationships. So there's basically everything you

841
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: want for a censorship minded person in here. And this

842
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: is safetyism. This is just pure safetyism in a nutshell.

843
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: It's what I've fought against, from BLM to this trans nonsense,

844
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 2: to now this, they're all the exact same in terms

845
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: of the way that they phrase their red Everything is genocidal,

846
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: everything is calling for elimination. Maybe the other side has

847
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 2: a point, as you said, calling for global into paduct.

848
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 3: Maybe you should ask somebody what they mean by that.

849
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 2: You should ask somebody about the phrase or whatever from

850
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 2: the river to the sea. Some people might mean wiping

851
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: off the face of Israel. Maybe some people mean another thing.

852
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: And I'll even say something even more controversial. I believe

853
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 2: in the First Amendment, and I believe in for a

854
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: complete First Amendment guidance. Even if you were calling for genocide,

855
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 2: I don't think you should be expelled. I'll say it

856
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 2: same on Kanye he tweeted out the swastika. Fine, sorry,

857
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: it's a free country. You can do that in this country,

858
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 2: and I think you should be able to do so.

859
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 2: There's no Hitler was right exception to the First Amendment.

860
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: You can think it's abhorrent, which I do, but that

861
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you should ever crack down on those

862
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: people's ability to talk. And this is their a creating

863
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: something out of nothing, but also setting the precedent for

864
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: something I think is genuinely very dangerous all of this

865
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: like harm and safety ism and all that.

866
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 3: And I've laid it out before, but I'll just say

867
00:42:59,080 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 3: it again.

868
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 2: What most American Jews who are behind this, they're just

869
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: mad they're not considered marginalized within the Dei regime. But

870
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: the thing is, the de I regime itself is bad.

871
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: The de I regime itself is how we got to

872
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 2: the point where you're constantly morally equivocaing.

873
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 3: Why should these universities take positions on this shit anyway?

874
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 3: They shouldn't. These academic professors and all these people should

875
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 3: have a very simple guideline, ma'am.

876
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: Whenever on our college campus, we have the First Amendment

877
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: as our guiding principle. If you violate that by explicitly

878
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: turning into action against another student.

879
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 3: You will be expelled.

880
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 9: Yeah.

881
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 3: Period, That's it. Everybody else can do whatever they want.

882
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: And also, let me just say too, I don't want

883
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: to put this on all Jewish people. There are a

884
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: lot of Jewish students out there who think this is nonsense.

885
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: So who are by away by the way, protesting alongside

886
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: those who are calling for you know, for peace and

887
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: a ceasefire, and who may even be saying things like

888
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: globalize the Intifada or from the River to the Sea. Okay,

889
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: so this is, you know, an elite effort to quash

890
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: any sort of pro Palestinian speech. This is something that

891
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: has been waged for many years. This is one of

892
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: the primary reasons why I have always said, even if

893
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: you are not principled on this issue, which you should be,

894
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: you should just support for free speech, whether it benefits

895
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: your side or the other side. This has always been

896
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: the most fraught cancel culture issue. So while it was

897
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: the right that was claiming the mantle of free speech,

898
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: absolutism and anti cancel culture, etc. It was always that,

899
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, any critique of Israel that was the fastest

900
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: way to get you canceled or lose your job, or

901
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: be shamed online, etc. So these things cut really quickly

902
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: in both directions, which is why you should just have

903
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: a principled stance on the issue. There was one line

904
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: in that op ed that you were reading from that

905
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: just made my mind completely explode. She writes privileging free

906
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: speech on campus relative to other values, emphasizes skill that

907
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: pose the greatest challenge to our democracy, and fails to

908
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: cultivate the skills democratic societies most need. What So being

909
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: for free speech is bad for democracy. I mean, this

910
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: is insanity. This goes against you know, the entire like

911
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 1: idealized American democratic project. And I just think it comes

912
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: from You've got a lot of cynical actors here who

913
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: just you know, they want to weaponize it when it's

914
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: convenient for them.

915
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 4: That's very clear.

916
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: But I also think that this whole safetyism instinct and

917
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: this whole quote unquote pushback against free speech comes from

918
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: an America that is really lacking in confidence, from people

919
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: who don't trust each other, have been told that, you know,

920
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the country is evil, and so they

921
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: have to be contained and they have to be controlled,

922
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: and it is the first step to you know, increased

923
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: authoritarianism in this sort of police state attitude that is

924
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:02,959
Speaker 1: anathema to an actual vibrant, functioning democracy. So to read

925
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: this in the Washington Post and really wrap your heat

926
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: around what this person is arguing, it just makes you

927
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: completely crazy.

928
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah it makes me crazy too, But I also know

929
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: that this will be the prevailing ideology.

930
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: And let's go to the next part here. Let's go

931
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 3: ahead and put this up there on the screen.

932
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 2: So this is one where we just can't look away

933
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: because the flip on a dime from saying things like

934
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: affirmative action is bad to now instituting straight up Jewish

935
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: quotas has now taken a mere twenty four hours. Here's Pallenteer.

936
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: This is a company that has security software. They license

937
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: the CIA to a lot of other financial institutions, and

938
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: all that, they say, we Palenteer, have been committed and

939
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: let's please leave this up to defending the principles that

940
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 2: make democratic rule possible. Since our founding two decades ago,

941
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: our software embodies our values and commitments. We believe these

942
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: values must be backed up by actions. So they say

943
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: students on campuses are terrified and have been instructed by

944
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: administrators to hide their judaism. I do not believe that

945
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 2: that has literally ever happened. They say, we are launching

946
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: an initiative for students who, because of anti Semitism, fear

947
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: for their safety on campus and need to seek refuge

948
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 2: outside traditional establishments of higher education. They are welcome to

949
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: join Palenteer, and we are setting aside one hundred and

950
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: eighty positions for them immediately. More details to follow. So

951
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on here. One is that this

952
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: is a straight up quota. There's no other way to

953
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: describe it. This is a quota for Jews at an

954
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: American company. Someone might want to tell them that that

955
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: violates the most basic practices of hiring and of discrimination,

956
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: regardless of whether it's applied to blacks or whether it's

957
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: applied to Jews. And I've definitely criticized it whenever I've

958
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: seen it in that direction, and they I probably look,

959
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: I don't know all the people behind Palenteer. I only

960
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: want to point one person. He is somebody who I

961
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: have heard rail against racial admissions preferences.

962
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 3: And it's like, what happened? Man.

963
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: I'm not going to drop names, but it's like one

964
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 2: of those where that's not what you do whenever you're

965
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: friends with somebody. But it's outrageous. And you know, you

966
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: see too, a guy like Ben Shapiro, who has been

967
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,479
Speaker 2: against this type of stuff for and again, has made

968
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 2: millions of dollars preaching against it, and now immediately put

969
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: this up there.

970
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 3: He says, love this, love this, Yeah, we.

971
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 4: Love it, and then love racial quota, as Glenn.

972
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: Pointed out hours later, he followed up and said, but

973
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: they should open it.

974
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 3: Up to everyone, regardless of whether they fear anti Semitism

975
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: or not.

976
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 2: Time to take the talent pool of the entire college

977
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: and university scam and hire them away. And look, I

978
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 2: have respect for Ben on some levels, mostly at a

979
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: business perspective, but for me to watch somebody like this

980
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: who so clearly just abandoned so much of what they

981
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: stood for, to directly get and self involved in a conflict,

982
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: and then to cheer on things happening again in the

983
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: United States saying, you know, the direct quota systems for

984
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: saying and allegedly make up shit like people have been

985
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: told to tie to their Judaism on campus. Show me

986
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: one example of that. And same with these students. I'm

987
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 2: gonna keep calling these people. I hate doing it because

988
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 2: I hate targeting individual ones, but they're the ones who

989
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: put themselves in the discussion.

990
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 3: One of them claims that one of their.

991
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 2: Professors called them a dirty Jew, and it's like, okay,

992
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: name him, then name him, because if you can't, then

993
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: I don't believe you. My Smallet rule is, I don't

994
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: believe you if you're gonna make an allegation like this

995
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: unless you've got literal proof on video or and they're like, oh, well,

996
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: we feel unsafe because we have to walk past posters

997
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: who have written I walk past.

998
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 3: Annoying posters here in Washington.

999
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: All the time. Try to live in here during BLM.

1000
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 2: It's annoying as hell. Guess what, that's life. I could

1001
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: also have the freedom to get up and leave the

1002
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: city any time that I want.

1003
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 3: That's the whole point.

1004
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: Or all of these rbg's a hero ones, which I

1005
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: would hope at least piste us both off Crystal.

1006
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 3: About how she's a feminist here.

1007
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: I mean I can't, or all of the what are

1008
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 2: those dumb ass signs like in this house we believe,

1009
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 2: you know whatever.

1010
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, everything your life, man, Just you know.

1011
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 2: I sent you a photo just yesterday one of my

1012
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: neighbors who has got a gay Pride flag with the

1013
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: Israeli star in the middle of it.

1014
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 4: And you know that's a whole I just walked past.

1015
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 2: It's right next to the Slava Ukraine, and I just

1016
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: keep walking my.

1017
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 3: Dog even though it annoys me, because that's a free compry.

1018
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: This is the rough and tumble of democracy, friend, this

1019
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: is how it is. And yeah, so that those press

1020
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: conferences that Republicans are organizing where they have these like

1021
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: privileged Ivy League students come out and be like, oh

1022
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: my god, I saw a poster.

1023
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 4: I had to walk.

1024
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: Protest well, and not only that, Okay, if it was

1025
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: the other way, if it was Democrats organizing these press conferences,

1026
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: and it was transactivists, or it was black students or

1027
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: any other marginalized minority, Ben Shapiro will be first in

1028
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: line to mock the hell out of them as being

1029
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 1: little privileged snowflakes crying about having to see you for imposters, okay,

1030
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: and now like that turn on a dime and seemingly

1031
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: zero self awareness, and with the Palanti your thing in particular,

1032
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: I mean, this isn't even affirmative.

1033
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: Action, right, Oh yeah, it's worse. This is straight up quotas.

1034
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: Which very few people on the left or liberals or

1035
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: whatever even call for an American life, you know when

1036
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: it comes to minorities who have suffered vast discriminations around

1037
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 1: our history. So you're just instantly like, yeah, quotas, I'm

1038
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: good for it. If they're you know, if they've experienced

1039
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: anti semitism on campus, quotas.

1040
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 4: We're ready for it.

1041
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: It's wild to watch how few people have any sort

1042
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: of consistency when it's a group that they have an

1043
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: affinity for, when it's a group that they see themselves

1044
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: either as part of or as an ally of. And

1045
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: this has been it hasn't been across the board. There

1046
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: have been some people who have been like, you know what,

1047
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: like the bag give them credit here, right, He's he's

1048
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: been consistent, And there have been a few people on

1049
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 1: the left who have tried to be consistent even when

1050
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: it was more you know, the right that was.

1051
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 4: Pushing for free speech.

1052
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: I would just really please everyone, regardless of whose side

1053
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: you feel like benefits in this particular moment, please try

1054
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: to have some shred of dignity and some shred of

1055
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: a principle that is consistently applied here, because otherwise you're

1056
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: going to end up endorsing things that make you look

1057
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 1: absolutely ridiculous and should not be tolerated in any sort

1058
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: of situation.

1059
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 3: Would not agree more.

1060
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: At the same time, here, for domestic politics, things have

1061
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 2: probably never looked worse for President Joe Biden.

1062
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

1063
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton has now stepped up as quote a key

1064
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: player in Biden's reelection. Clinton ad posted a one million

1065
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: dollar fundraiser at her Georgetown home. That ought to do

1066
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: it because money is what she was lacking in the

1067
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen campaign.

1068
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 3: That's not necessarily a good sign. They say.

1069
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 2: Clinton's re emergence is emblematic of the larger Democratic effort

1070
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 2: to fully deploy high profile allies in Biden's re election fight.

1071
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: While Obama has appeared in fundraising, some Democrats would actually

1072
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: like to see him even more visible on the campaign trail.

1073
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: You're very eager to get our surrogates engage, one of

1074
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: the Biden campaign people said, pointing to the Clintons and

1075
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: the former first couple Barack and Michelle Obama.

1076
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 3: So that obviously is going to do it.

1077
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: And just in a sign of why Hillary is getting involved,

1078
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: is just how bad things are going for President Biden.

1079
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

1080
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: He now has the lowest approval of any president ever

1081
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: in the history of presidential polling at this point in

1082
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 2: his presidency. That includes Jimmy Carter in nineteen in the

1083
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies.

1084
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 4: So most of these aren't even close.

1085
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 3: Thee most of these are not even close.

1086
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 4: Trump is actually, I guess maybe the closest one.

1087
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is with Trump is that he was

1088
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 2: always low, but he was just consistently low. And for

1089
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: him that forty one percent, it never necessarily went above that,

1090
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 2: but enough people were willing to vote for him even

1091
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: though they didn't like him, that it would end up

1092
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 2: saving him.

1093
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 3: Biden does not have nearly that same.

1094
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 2: Level a floor of people who would fall crawl over

1095
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: broken glass to make sure that he's voted for. And

1096
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 2: because even though he is polarizing against Republicans, he's not

1097
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 2: animating in the same way for his Democratic base. And

1098
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: so if they don't want to come out and to

1099
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 2: vote for him, then he's in very, very serious trouble.

1100
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: And it's not just on approval rating, which is not

1101
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 2: necessarily is I just laid out with Trump indicative On

1102
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 2: the economy, things are absolutely brutal for Biden. Please put

1103
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 2: this up there. This is just polling from yesterday. The

1104
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,959
Speaker 2: standard of living is worse than their parents was age

1105
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty nine. Thirty nine percent say yes. The

1106
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: majority say yes. In the millennial demographic most difficult economic

1107
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 2: time for the US, multiple people say it is ways

1108
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 2: that you tell how the economy is doing their own experiences.

1109
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: People that you know professionally, is your income keeping up

1110
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: with inflation?

1111
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: Only twenty four percent say yes it is.

1112
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: The vast majority seventy six percent say that it is

1113
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 2: not so on almost every every economic metric, Crystal, it

1114
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 2: is not working for the American people. And on a

1115
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:09,280
Speaker 2: polling front, things remain absolutely brutal. And the Trump evidence

1116
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: of his strength is crystal clear. Put this up there too,

1117
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 2: from the Wall Street Journal. They have now officially shown

1118
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: Trump with a commanding lead forty seven percent for the

1119
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: election if it was held today say they would vote

1120
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 2: for him. Only forty three percent say Joe Biden. And

1121
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: a huge part of that, crystal is specifically because of

1122
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: people who voted for Joe Biden and are going to

1123
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: stay home in twenty twenty four. And that's the critical block.

1124
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 2: It's not even that Trump has necessarily picked up a

1125
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 2: lot more votes. It's just that ninety five percent of

1126
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: the people who voted for him last time around say

1127
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 2: that they will do so again, and only sixty or

1128
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: eight seventy percent of the people who say that they

1129
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: did in twenty twenty would vote for him again in

1130
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.

1131
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: They also found they did measure it with the third

1132
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: party candidates in and they found that when you include everybody,

1133
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: it widens the lead for Trump. But RFK Junior in particular,

1134
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: he's the only one of the canon's that does in

1135
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: their poll anyway take more from Trump than he does

1136
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: from Biden. So in any case, take that for what

1137
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: it's worth, because obviously there's a lot of challenges and

1138
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: hurdles for all of their third party candidates to be

1139
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: able to get on the ballot, So who knows who's

1140
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: going to be on the ballot where. But overall, the

1141
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: addition of third party candidate to this mix is probably

1142
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: only more trouble for Joe Piden, which is I guess

1143
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: did why they're desperately and foolishly pulling the Hillary Clinton

1144
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: lever thinking that is going to somehow save them in

1145
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: any way.

1146
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 3: You know.

1147
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: The economic stuff is very interesting. There's a whole debate

1148
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: raging on econ and political Twitter about whether the economic

1149
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: woes that the American people are reporting are imagined. Are

1150
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: they in their head, are they just persuaded by TikTok

1151
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: disinformation and negative media reports, or are people.

1152
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 4: Really going through it?

1153
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: And one of the things that this poll asks people

1154
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: is like, hey, are you saying these things about the

1155
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: economy because of what you've heard is happening with other people?

1156
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: Or are you talking about your own personal financial situation?

1157
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: And overwhelmingly, guess what, guys, they said, it's about me

1158
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: and what I'm experience in my life. And we have

1159
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,720
Speaker 1: that number up there before of how many people overwhelmingly

1160
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: they say, no, my wages are not keeping up with inflation.

1161
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: As we've discussed here as well. Remember the story of

1162
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: the Biden administration is a story not only of inflation,

1163
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: but also if all the covid eras social safety net

1164
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: programs being stripped away. We have tracked here repeatedly the

1165
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: way that high interest rates have screwed the housing market

1166
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: and made housing more affordable than at almost any time

1167
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: in history. We've tracked here how people are increasingly maxing

1168
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 1: out their credit cards. So when you look at these

1169
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: consumer spending numbers and you're like, oh, if everybody seems

1170
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: all right, they're spending normal amounts of money, or they've

1171
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: even increased the amount of money that they're spending, guess what.

1172
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: They're racking up massive amounts of debt to do that.

1173
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: We've tracked also how you know these new like installment

1174
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: pavement companies that you can use online or even at

1175
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: the grocery store sometimes, how they have seen a massive

1176
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: increase in business where people are using installment plans even

1177
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: to pay for basic things like groceries. So, if you

1178
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: know where to look, the signs are all over the

1179
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 1: place that things are going poorly, and you can't just

1180
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: look at the unemployment rate. You certainly can't just look

1181
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: at the stock market. You have to look at this

1182
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: combination of factors and soccer. One other thing that we

1183
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: had talked about before is there's also a huge age

1184
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: divide here. If you are older and you have savings,

1185
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: the higher interest rates may be good for If you

1186
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: already have a home and you have savings, the high

1187
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: interest rates might be good for you. If you're young

1188
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: and you're trying to buy a house and you're looking

1189
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: at these mortgage rates and the housing prices that continue

1190
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: to go up have not gone down at all, you

1191
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: are going to feel like I have no hope of

1192
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: ever becoming a homeowner and having some sort of a

1193
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: stable life and having you know, being able to move

1194
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: past this phase of procarity that I feel like I'm

1195
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: always going to exist in So it's no wonder why

1196
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: you also see a generational divide about how people feel

1197
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: the economy is doing.

1198
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 2: No question at all, especially with those young voters. That's

1199
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 2: a big constituency for Biden whenever it comes to who

1200
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: he needs to rely on. And they actually did some

1201
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: math on this. For every like one or two percent,

1202
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 2: that equates to about ten thousand votes, And that is

1203
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 2: the margin of victory for exactly what you see in

1204
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 2: Georgia and in Michigan previously, Pennsylvania, Arizona and all these

1205
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 2: other must win states that Biden has the headwinds in

1206
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: Biden is currently facing because I don't think people understand

1207
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 2: just how miraculous, honestly, by the margins that he won

1208
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 2: in the electoral College. It looks like Georgia and Arizona

1209
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: just flipped. No, they were so razor thin for the

1210
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 2: margin of victory that it even if he was just

1211
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: a few points lower in his approval than when he

1212
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 2: was elected, he would be facing trouble to be double

1213
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: digits down by I mean, what fifteen to twenty percent

1214
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 2: in terms of his approval margin since he took office.

1215
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 3: That's a disaster.

1216
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just one of those where we have

1217
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: not seen this like since Jimmy Carter. And I think

1218
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 2: that he has given Carter a run for his money

1219
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 2: in terms of the global crisis situation, the same thing

1220
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 2: that happened under Carter. The belief that he is handling

1221
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 2: of the economy is a disaster. And with Trump, Trump

1222
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 2: is almost Reagan Esque in this one respect, where you

1223
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: can project whatever the hell you want. You know, for

1224
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: a lot of people who are voting for Trump, it's

1225
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 2: just like last ditch because he pisses off the left.

1226
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 2: Some are small business Republicans who would vote for a

1227
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: Republican anyway, and then some are At this point, Trump

1228
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 2: is going to get the anti Biden vote in the

1229
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 2: same way that many of the people voted for Reagan

1230
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 2: did solely because its screw you to Jimmy Carter. So

1231
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: I think that Trump is in a very beneficial position.

1232
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 2: But also he is his own worst enemy.

1233
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 4: We can't lie about that, very true.

1234
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the more that he is like in the

1235
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: news and in the headlines and as his trials unfoldless

1236
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: and who knows, there's a new CNN poll out this

1237
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: morning of Georgia and Michigan. Georgia has Trump up by

1238
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: five forty nine.

1239
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 4: Forty four.

1240
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: Michigan, where of course there is a large Arab American population, has.

1241
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 4: Trump up by ten fifty to forty. It has him

1242
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 4: up by ten.

1243
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: So there's just no spinning that Biden is dramatically behind

1244
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: in terms of his reelect. Now, if you dig into

1245
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: this Wall Street Journal poll, they try to pull out

1246
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: a few things of like, well, this could be a

1247
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: decent sign for Biden. The issues that he's ahead on

1248
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,439
Speaker 1: are handling abortion, which we're going to talk a little

1249
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: bit more about in the next block. If that continues

1250
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 1: to be a major focus of American politics, maybe that

1251
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: rescues him. You also have voters who are undecided suggest

1252
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: they could be persuaded to back Biden nearly a year

1253
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: from now. So you have some people who are kind

1254
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: of on the fence who seem like maybe they're a

1255
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: little bit tilted towards Biden over Trump, but that's far

1256
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: from a sure thing.

1257
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 4: They also talk.

1258
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: About how when voters talk about personal qualities, they still

1259
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: view Biden in a more favorable light than Trump. So

1260
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: voters say the word corrupt applies more to trum than

1261
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: to Biden. Biden is seen by more voters as honest.

1262
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: A felony conviction for Trump, who faces ninety one charges

1263
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: and for criminal prosecutions, would shift the head to head

1264
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: Pellett to give Biden a slight one point lead.

1265
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 4: That's kind of amazing to me.

1266
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: So even if this dude is found guilty, if he's

1267
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: convicted of one of these felony charges, that only gives

1268
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: Biden a one point lead, which is obviously within the

1269
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: margin of error. And also, who knows how people are

1270
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: actually going to react to those things versus how they

1271
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: think they're going to react to those things, But that's

1272
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: their spin is effectively like, if this ends up being

1273
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: more of a contest of values versus issues, then Biden

1274
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: potentially has a possibility of pulling things from behind. And

1275
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: then abortion is the thing that Democrats are really betting on.

1276
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: There was just a peace out about how they're going

1277
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: to stake a lot of Biden's reelection on the issue

1278
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: of abortion, not even promising to do anything affirmative to

1279
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: reclaim the rights that have been lost, but just to

1280
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 1: serviceable work against for the deterioration of women's rights.

1281
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that abortion remains probably the

1282
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 2: single biggest flashing red light, and I think it is

1283
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 2: actually the only hope that Biden has left. And the

1284
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: reason though, is it's potent, it is actually relevant, and

1285
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 2: it's especially the most relevant in all the states that

1286
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 2: needs to win, like Michigan where you had a huge

1287
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 2: win for abortion on the ballot, Georgia. I mean, we

1288
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 2: haven't seen it tested yet, but it certainly is one

1289
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: where it could activate the suburban constituency who Biden needs

1290
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: to drag out.

1291
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 3: Arizona the same thing.

1292
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 2: So really, in the states where Biden most needs turn

1293
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 2: out to go up, he's got abortion there. The only

1294
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 2: question is how Trump is going to navigate it. But

1295
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 2: Trump hasn't been all that successful. He's trying to distance

1296
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 2: himself from it at the same time take credit for it.

1297
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 2: So it's one of those where he could lose evangelical

1298
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 2: votes in the same process.

1299
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: I don't think he can really effectively distance himself from it,

1300
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: not only because I mean, listen, you're the guy who

1301
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: put these people on the Supreme Court, number one, so

1302
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: you're just going to have a hard time making the

1303
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: argument that this isn't on you to begin with. And

1304
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: also just because of party affiliation. I think it'll be

1305
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: very hard for him to dodge. But this is actually

1306
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: a great segue to the next piece because the issue

1307
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: of abortion does continue to loom large, and I think

1308
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: will continue to loom large because you have cases still unfolding,

1309
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: challenging the laws, some of the more draconian laws that

1310
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 1: have been passed in states across the country. The latest

1311
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: comes down of Texas put this up on the screen.

1312
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: So the Texas Supreme Court has now paused a judge

1313
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: decision that would have allowed a woman to terminate a

1314
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: pregnancy in which her fetus has a fatal diagnosis. So

1315
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: this woman's name is Kate Cox. She lives in Dallas.

1316
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: She's a mother of two. You know, she would love

1317
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 1: to have this healthy baby girl, but her fetus has

1318
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: been diagnosed with a deadly genetic condition which will allowed

1319
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: only to live for potentially a few days out of

1320
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: the womb. There's no doctor who was saying that this

1321
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: fetus could survive, and yet in the state of Texas,

1322
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: she is has been banned from being able to have

1323
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: an abortion. This is having huge physical health costs on

1324
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: her her She's had to be admitted to the hospital

1325
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: with horrific pains and cramping because of the problems with

1326
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: this pregnancy. A lower court had ruled that she could

1327
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: go forward with the abortion, and now the Texas Supreme

1328
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: Court has stepped in and halted that judge's order, although.

1329
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 4: The case is still ongoing.

1330
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: What the Texas Attorney General had argued is that the

1331
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: state would suffer a quote irreparable loss should Kate Cox

1332
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: be allowed to terminate her pregnancy. He writes, because the

1333
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 1: life of an unborn child is at state, the court

1334
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: should require a faithful application of Texas statutes prior to

1335
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: determining that an abortion is permitted. And that is the

1336
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: side that this Texas judge sided with. Let's go and

1337
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: listen to Kate spoke to NBC News about how painful

1338
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: this has been for her, how painful this has been

1339
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: for her family.

1340
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

1341
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 10: It's a hard it's a hard time, you know, even

1342
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 10: with you know, being helpful with the decision that came

1343
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,439
Speaker 10: from the hearing this morning, there's there's still we're going

1344
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 10: through the loss of a child. There's no outcome here

1345
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 10: that I take home my healthy baby girl, you know.

1346
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 10: So it's hard, you know, just uh, you know, grief.

1347
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 10: But I think that you know, joy and grief can

1348
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 10: co exist, and there's you know more, there's moments of joy.

1349
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 10: So I'm really grateful for my wonderful two children that

1350
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,959
Speaker 10: I have and my wonderful family. And you know, it's

1351
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 10: a moment of sadness that we really have a wonderful

1352
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 10: life here in our in our home state. And so,

1353
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 10: you know, I just try to count my blessings.

1354
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: And as if that wasn't enough, Sager put this last

1355
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: piece up on the screen, Ken Paxton Again, the Texas

1356
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: ag has threatened to prosecute any doctors, to file criminal

1357
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: charges against any doctors who did perform the abortion on

1358
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: this woman.

1359
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 4: This was after.

1360
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: The lower court judge had ruled that they may do So,

1361
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: how do you think this, polls, guys, forcing this woman

1362
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: to deliver to term this baby who has no prayer

1363
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: of surviving going through all of the tortuous trauma and

1364
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: physical pain that is involved in this, the state forcing

1365
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: you to do that, and criminalizing any doctor who would

1366
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: you do the right thing and perform this procedure for

1367
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: this poor woman who is clearly suffering. It's pure insanity

1368
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: and you know when Republicans try to say, oh, well,

1369
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: let's shift the subject and let's talk about Democrats and

1370
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: their extremism on this issue. These are the stories that

1371
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: are actually unfolding, that people are witnessing and seeing the

1372
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: extremism and the fringe views in action. I can't imagine

1373
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: it's even a majority of Texans who support this direction

1374
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: of their own elected leadership here.

1375
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually, this is the one thing.

1376
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 2: This is actually a faithful interpretation of a lot of

1377
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 2: the evangelical view on this issue, which is why I

1378
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 2: think it's such a loser politically, because what they would

1379
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 2: say is, look, there's always a chance, and yeah, if

1380
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 2: it perishes after it's born, even though the median survival

1381
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 2: is like two point five to fourteen point five days

1382
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 2: and a ninety to ninety five percent chance that it

1383
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 2: won't survive even a single year, that that would set

1384
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 2: the preconditions for that would basically set the preconditions for

1385
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 2: using it as for a eugenics like policy for down

1386
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 2: syndrome and for all of oodes. And I fully understand that,

1387
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 2: and I agree it's actually a massive moral quandary and

1388
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: all that, but we also do live in a democratic

1389
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 2: in a democratic country, and it's very clear through the

1390
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 2: way that the American people previously supported the row versus

1391
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 2: weighed consensus was such that dealing with these types of issues,

1392
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 2: dealing also with you know, rape incests, you know, exceptions

1393
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: to the life of the mother and severe health trauma

1394
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: and all that was a decision that Americans are broadly

1395
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 2: comfortable allowing their citizens to make for themselves. And I

1396
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 2: think most people can listen, you know, to this, and

1397
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 2: it does fly in the face too, of a lot

1398
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 2: of their abortion messaging for the Republicans, as you were

1399
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 2: talking about, with late term abortions. This is not like

1400
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 2: a Lena Dunnam woman who is like.

1401
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:07,759
Speaker 3: I wish I had had an abortion.

1402
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: She's like, I've had two kids, Like I'm dealing with

1403
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 2: trauma myself, Like he was a situation. She's like, I

1404
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 2: wish this wasn't a situation that I'm in. And I

1405
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 2: think a lot of people too can really sympathize just

1406
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 2: with the basic idea of like, I cannot believe that

1407
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 2: the state is telling me to they can make the

1408
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 2: decision for me at the level of not only criminalizing it,

1409
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 2: but ordering it from a judge. So that's one where

1410
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 2: it look. You know, this is this is Biden's only chance.

1411
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 2: I think it's his only chance. We talked previously about Kentucky.

1412
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,839
Speaker 2: Abortion was a huge driver of the Democratic vote in Kentucky,

1413
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 2: and that ve ad that was run against Daniel Daniel

1414
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 2: Cameron was a woman who'd been raped by her stepfather

1415
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 2: when she was twelve years old, and she just looks

1416
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 2: directly into the Cameron She's like, Daniel Cameron would force

1417
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,679
Speaker 2: me to have to carry his I mean, these are brutal.

1418
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 2: This is just a place where electorally the results are

1419
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 2: in and all the pro life cope around how this

1420
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 2: wasn't going to materialize an.

1421
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 3: Electoral blowback is just it's absurd.

1422
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 2: Now at this point, I think a story like this

1423
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 2: is animating enough that it could have significant electoral impact.

1424
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 2: I really believe if Biden has a chance, and it's

1425
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 2: one of the reasons I still say fifty to fifty,

1426
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 2: it's because of abortion. I don't think he's got a

1427
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 2: prayer on anything else, but it's potent enough that it

1428
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 2: really could.

1429
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think Hillary Clinton is going to rescue him. No,

1430
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: but the Kentucky example is a great one because listen,

1431
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: Democrats have been getting their ass is kicked on abortion

1432
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: in state of Kentucky for years, and that turned like

1433
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: this the minute that Roe was overturned by the Supreme Court,

1434
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: and that ad with that young woman straight to camera

1435
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: talking about her experience and against Daniel Cameron, that was

1436
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: one of the most powerful ads in that entire election

1437
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: and helped secure a Democratic victory for Andy Basher in

1438
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,920
Speaker 1: a state that is very red in terms of Kentucky.

1439
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,560
Speaker 1: So when you think about these stories like Kate Cox's

1440
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: playing out across the country, the type of, you know,

1441
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: very evocative stories that Americans just instinctively find this horrifying

1442
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: that the government could force this woman to carry this

1443
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: baby to term. Trump's going to be getting asked questions

1444
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: about this. You know, what is he going to say?

1445
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't know what he would say in reaction

1446
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: to this.

1447
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 4: It's hard to.

1448
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 1: Know because I mean, he's obviously very uncomfortable on the issue.

1449
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: He had the instant reaction of like, this is going

1450
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 1: to be bad for Republicans, and he's right, But he's

1451
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: the one who put these Supreme Court justices on the bench.

1452
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 1: I mean, this was the key promise that honestly got

1453
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: them elected back in twenty sixteen and kept evangelicals in line,

1454
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: who are now, you know, his most fervent based of supporters.

1455
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: So I do think that this is, you know, the

1456
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: one big issue that hangs over the twenty twenty four election.

1457
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: That and the Trump criminal charges are the two things

1458
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 1: that could potentially flip things and third parties. So there

1459
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 1: are a lot of wild cards here. But you know,

1460
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 1: the trauma that these women are facing is I think

1461
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,040
Speaker 1: going to be a central component of how things.

1462
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 4: Are unfold.

1463
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 3: Crystal, what are you taking a look at?

1464
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:04,799
Speaker 4: Well?

1465
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,719
Speaker 1: A global outcry has erupted over the death of poet,

1466
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: academic and activists Rafought all Arrear at the hands of

1467
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: the Israeli government. Now, ra Fought was not only a

1468
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 1: beloved intellectual in Gaza. He was a window to Americans

1469
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: and to the English speaking world into the Palestinian struggle,

1470
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: regularly giving interviews, posting updates that allowed us all to

1471
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: see the reality of life inside of Gaza, forcing us

1472
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: to reckon with the pain, the peril, the hopes, the

1473
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: dreams and the nightmares of the Palestinian people.

1474
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 11: We know that it's very bleak, it's very dark. There's

1475
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 11: no way out if there's no autor there is no

1476
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 11: way out Gaza, what should we do? Like drown, like

1477
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 11: commit mass suicide? Is this what is it I want?

1478
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,680
Speaker 11: And we're not going to do that? And I was

1479
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 11: telling somebody, some friend the other data. I'm an academic.

1480
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 11: Probably the toughest thing I have a tone is an

1481
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 11: expo marker. But if this really is invade, if the

1482
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 11: project has charged us open door to door to massacres,

1483
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 11: I'm going to use that markers throw it at the soldiers,

1484
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 11: even if that is the last thing that I would

1485
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 11: be able to do. And this is the feeling of everybody.

1486
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 11: We are helpless, We have nothing to lose.

1487
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 1: In the wake of his killing, people from around the

1488
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: world shared this poem. Author by Refought, translating it into

1489
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: at least dozens of languages in order to share his

1490
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 1: powerful testimony to the world. That poem reads, if I

1491
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 1: my sty you must live, to tell my story, to

1492
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: sell my things, to buy a piece of cloth and

1493
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: some strings, so that a child somewhere in Gaza, while

1494
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: looking heaven in the eye, awaiting his dad who left

1495
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 1: in a blaze, and bid no one farewell, not even

1496
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: to his flesh, not even to himself, seize the kite,

1497
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: my kite you made ying up above, and thinks for

1498
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 1: a moment that an angel is there bringing back love.

1499
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 4: If I must die.

1500
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 1: The mourning of this beloved figure, an outpouring of humanity,

1501
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: was met with a truly repulsive inhuman response. As justification

1502
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: for the murder of this man, people shared a tweet

1503
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,799
Speaker 1: that Rafot had sent mocking one of the more absurd

1504
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: claims made about the Hamas atrocities committed on October seventh,

1505
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 1: the claim that a baby was found burned in the oven.

1506
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: That lie, like many others, has now been debunked by

1507
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: the Israeli outlet Heretes. In other words, Rafot was right

1508
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: to mock this claim, and of course that no tweet,

1509
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: no matter how good or bad, should mark someone for

1510
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 1: assassination should go without saying. But unfortunately, far too many

1511
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 1: have bought the genocidal perspective that there are no innocent Palestinians.

1512
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: These tweets were enough to convict him as guilty in

1513
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:00,839
Speaker 1: their minds and justify his death sentence. And make no mistake,

1514
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 1: Rafat was sentenced to death. He was assassinated by terrorist

1515
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: government that decided they wanted him dead. That is the

1516
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 1: conclusion of human rights organization Euromed Monitor. They write, the

1517
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 1: Israeli airstrike that killed Professor Rafat Ala Reir was apparently deliberate,

1518
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: that is the conclusion of Euromed Monitor. On Friday, the

1519
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 1: apartment where Rafat and his family were sheltering was surgically

1520
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: bombed out of the entire building where it's located. According

1521
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: to corroborated eyewitness and family accounts, This came after weeks

1522
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: of death threats that Rafot received online and by phone

1523
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: from Israeli accounts. Now, it is probably too simplistic to

1524
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: say that Rafat was targeted for assassination because of his tweets,

1525
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: even though prominent accounts like Barry Weiss had used those

1526
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,480
Speaker 1: tweets to vilify him not long before the Israeli government.

1527
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 4: Did mark him for death.

1528
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: But Rafat was already well known to Israeli authorities, not

1529
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: new to outspoken activism. In fact, this wasn't even the

1530
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,759
Speaker 1: first time Israel tried to kill him. In twenty fourteen,

1531
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: they bombed his house. He survived. More than thirty members

1532
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 1: of his family, however, were killed. The bigger question to

1533
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: me isn't whether we're fought was targeted.

1534
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 4: He clearly was.

1535
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: It's whether his assassination was part of larger programming program

1536
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 1: targeting intellectuals. Is Israel systematically eliminating peaceful thought leaders, calculating

1537
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: that their very existence and ability to humanize Palestinians and

1538
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 1: draw attention to the Palestinian cause constitutes a threat to

1539
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 1: Israel's criminal apartheid regime. After all, every day the list

1540
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,799
Speaker 1: of doctors, journalists, and aid workers who have been killed

1541
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 1: grows longer. Seventy six journalists have already been killed by Israel.

1542
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 1: That's more than any other conflict in at least thirty years,

1543
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: and at least some of these killings we know now

1544
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 1: have been intentional. Reuter's AFP, Amnesty International, and Human Rights

1545
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,760
Speaker 1: Watch all assessed that an Israeli attack which killed a

1546
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: Reuters videographer and injured six other journalists was in fact

1547
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: a deliberate targeted attack Targeting journalists.

1548
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 4: Of course, is war crime. But it's not just journalists.

1549
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: Declassified UK has tracked extensive list of Palestine intellectuals and

1550
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 1: thought leaders who have all been killed by the Israeli government.

1551
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 4: Take a listen.

1552
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 9: There's a clear pattern that Israel is targeting the best

1553
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 9: and brightest of Gaza. They are going, as you said,

1554
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 9: they're going after everyone who might provide a way of

1555
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 9: living a human life in Gaza. So they're going after lawyers,

1556
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 9: they're going after medics, they're going after teachers and journalists. Yes,

1557
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 9: well very I mean one of the most. I mean,

1558
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:38,839
Speaker 9: it's also horrific. Is beyond words. But the Al Jazeero

1559
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 9: was shut down in Israel and then the day after

1560
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 9: they bombed and killed the family of the Al Jazeera

1561
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 9: correspondent in Gaza. So that was a statement. It was saying,

1562
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 9: we will kill your family. They didn't even kill him,

1563
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 9: they killed his family. So I just want to I

1564
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 9: think this is part of what needs to change, is

1565
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 9: the narrative is that this is not none of these

1566
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 9: a mistakes, that they're targeting the best and brighters to

1567
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,799
Speaker 9: Gaza because they want to destroy any remnants of human

1568
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 9: life in Gods that they want to make it unable

1569
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 9: to do. So, I just wanted you guys to talk

1570
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 9: about what you think Israel's goal is.

1571
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 12: Well, actually they also target the peace activists and it's shocking,

1572
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 12: even those who called for beast they are targeting them.

1573
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 12: For example, they targeted my friend Ahmadabortima, the founder of

1574
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 12: the A Good Much of Return. He is my best

1575
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 12: friend and he has always been one of the most

1576
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:38,440
Speaker 12: vocal voices for the peace for resistance.

1577
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm reminded also of what one official told nine seventeen

1578
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: magazine of how Israel is conducting its bombing campaign.

1579
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 4: Quote nothing happens by accident.

1580
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 1: When a three year old girl is killed in a

1581
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: home in Gaza, it's because someone in the army decided

1582
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't a big deal for her to be killed.

1583
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 1: The follows then, that when a doctor, or journalist or

1584
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 1: a scholar is killed, it's because the Israeli government wanted

1585
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 1: them gone. Targeting makes on another level. There may be

1586
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: no state in the world which so clearly understands the

1587
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:06,599
Speaker 1: power of words and stories, and by extension, those who

1588
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,519
Speaker 1: wield those words and stories, as the state of Israel.

1589
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: How else, after algi you convince a diaspora of people

1590
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: with different languages and cultures living or all over the

1591
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: world that there are actually one people that they should

1592
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: get behind what must have seemed a preposterous project at

1593
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 1: the time to settle and colonize historic Palestine. How else

1594
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 1: do you provide moral cover for the world's superpower to

1595
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: fund and arm you and provide you diplomatic cover even

1596
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 1: as you systematically violate international law through legal settlements in

1597
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 1: a legal blockade, an official policy of apartheid. How do

1598
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,759
Speaker 1: you kill thousands of children and then go on CNN

1599
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 1: with a straight face and claim you're doing all you

1600
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 1: can to protect civilians?

1601
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

1602
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 1: The Israeli government understands the power of propaganda, how essential

1603
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: it is, how dangerous those who can pierce their own

1604
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: veil of propaganda really are. They also understand how essential

1605
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 1: it is that they block any educated moderates who might

1606
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: represent a quote partner for peace. NETANYAHUO, of course, has

1607
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: long sought to thwart the establishment of a power Palestinian

1608
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 1: state by elevating extremists like Hamas.

1609
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 4: Wouldn't it be convenient to use this moment when the

1610
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 4: US has.

1611
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: Officially given you carte blanche to command any atrocities that

1612
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: you like to wipe out any alternative Palestinian leadership class.

1613
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: So while Rafat didn't wield a weapon, he was nevertheless

1614
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 1: armed and dangerous, as are the truly heroic journalists risking

1615
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 1: their lives to show us these horrors. The doctors who

1616
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 1: are sacrificing everything to provide the best care and comfort

1617
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: that they possibly can in impossible circumstances. All of these

1618
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: individuals are uniquely dangerous for a simple reason. They force

1619
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 1: us and the world to reckon with the basic humanity

1620
01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: of Palestinians, to sit with what it must be to

1621
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 1: be trapped in a prison your whole life, to watch

1622
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: the whole world abandon you, to be subjected to daily

1623
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: indignities and periodic horror. These heroes are vastly more dangerous

1624
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: to the Israeli regime than Hamas because the instant the

1625
01:20:56,400 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: world truly recognizes the full humanity of Palestinians is the

1626
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 1: instant that the Israeli project of dehumanization ends forever. And

1627
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 1: so Sager, people were really shocked because and if.

1628
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 2: You want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become

1629
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,799
Speaker 2: a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

1630
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 1: For more in depth understanding of the Israeli domestic political situation.

1631
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: We are fortunate to be joined this morning by Dalia Shindlen.

1632
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: She is a political scientist and Israeli polster. She's also

1633
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 1: a policy fellow at the Century Foundation and a calmnist

1634
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 1: for Awratz. Welcome, Dahlia, Thank you for having me.

1635
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 13: I'd like to also just put in there that I

1636
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 13: have a new book out called The Crooked Timber of

1637
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 13: Democracy in Israel.

1638
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:41,719
Speaker 3: Promise I'm fulfilled fantastic link in the description.

1639
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you for letting us know about that. So

1640
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 1: first of all, let's put this up on the screen.

1641
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: You were recently interviewed by Isaac Chotner in the New Yorker.

1642
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 1: The headline here is what October seventh did and didn't

1643
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 1: change about Israeli politics, And I'd love for you to

1644
01:21:57,080 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 1: start with an assessment of how people feel about Prime

1645
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 1: Minister Benjamin Netanya, who we all know he's tremendously unpopular,

1646
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 1: that huge majorities want him gone, either not now or

1647
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 1: after the war is concluded. But give us a little

1648
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 1: bit of depth on the nature of the critique of him.

1649
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 1: What are people really frustrated with and how much has

1650
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 1: that shifted since October seventh.

1651
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think the.

1652
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 13: First thing you have to understand is that attitudes towards

1653
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 13: Prime Minister Nasaanya who have shifted since November one, twenty

1654
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 13: twenty two.

1655
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 8: In other words, he was already doing poorly.

1656
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 13: His government was doing poorly his coalition partners and other

1657
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:36,759
Speaker 13: ministers because of the government's plans to overhaul the Israeli

1658
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 13: Judiciary and essentially eviscerate the independence of the Israeli judiciary.

1659
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 8: And there was an enormous backlash all year.

1660
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 13: I'm sure people know that there were protests every single week,

1661
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 13: and already the ratings had been dropping.

1662
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 8: Now nevertheless, Ntagne, who was essentially still for the.

1663
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 13: Most part during the year considered the most credible leader

1664
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 13: in the country, still sort of had the best ratings

1665
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,560
Speaker 13: in terms of question about who's most suitable to be

1666
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 13: prime minister, simply because people weren't really shining a light

1667
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,840
Speaker 13: on anybody else. But after October seventh, I think it

1668
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 13: was a final straw for many people in Israel, including

1669
01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 13: a great number of the people who had voted for

1670
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 13: the parties of the current coalition and for Ninitaanyahu's party

1671
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 13: back in November. And what we saw is over forty percent,

1672
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 13: close to half, but let's say over forty percent of

1673
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:26,719
Speaker 13: people who voted for Lekud, who are longtimely could voters

1674
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,720
Speaker 13: and quite devoted to mister Nintania, who felt like this

1675
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,479
Speaker 13: was a breach that they simply could not overcome in

1676
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 13: the sense of, you know, the state had failed to

1677
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,960
Speaker 13: protect its own citizens, those people who were still voting

1678
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 13: for Nittaia, who had forgiven an awful lot, including four

1679
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 13: active corruption cases, sorry, three active corruption cases, and you know,

1680
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,799
Speaker 13: this government that had been doing things that they absolutely

1681
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,719
Speaker 13: don't like, and they had stuck with in tan Yahoo.

1682
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 13: But the idea that the state was unable to protect

1683
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 13: its citizens, the fact that the state seemed to have

1684
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 13: been seemed to seem to have been unable to follow

1685
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 13: the intelligence to correctly assess what was going on, led

1686
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 13: to much deeper questions about the competence of.

1687
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 8: The government overall in a much longer term sense. And

1688
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 8: I remember, and it's now who has been.

1689
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 13: Prime minister almost consecutively since two thousand and nine, with

1690
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 13: just about a year and a half break, and so

1691
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 13: for many people that was a final straw. His ratings

1692
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 13: have plunged, his government's ratings have plunged, his party ratings

1693
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 13: have plunged. The question of trust and government has plunged.

1694
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 13: But I would be cautious about assuming that that means

1695
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 13: people are moving away from the broader political ideology of

1696
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 13: the right wing.

1697
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:37,759
Speaker 8: And that's something we can discuss.

1698
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:40,519
Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's very important and actually something I

1699
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 2: took away from your interview, But I also wanted to

1700
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 2: dig into something you flagged. Just because he's very unpopular

1701
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 2: and most people think you should go, they don't think

1702
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:50,120
Speaker 2: that he should go right now. Can you tell us

1703
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 2: about how people are reconciling that. They're like, well, as

1704
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 2: long as the war is in place, we should have

1705
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 2: him there, even though we don't think that he's fit

1706
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 2: to hold office.

1707
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1708
01:24:57,960 --> 01:24:59,640
Speaker 13: Well, keep in mind that by most surveys we have

1709
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:02,439
Speaker 13: this question, the total number of people who want him

1710
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 13: to go, either now, in the middle of the war,

1711
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 13: or after the war is between seventy and seventy five percent.

1712
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:09,680
Speaker 13: It's a huge majority. That's the first thing to keep

1713
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:12,200
Speaker 13: in mind. No incumbent wants to see that kind of number.

1714
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:14,760
Speaker 13: And I would you know, again, in most of the

1715
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 13: surveys that we have, about a quarter of the respondents

1716
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,759
Speaker 13: would like him to go right now, which is a minority,

1717
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 13: but it's not nothing in the middle of wartime. And

1718
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:26,160
Speaker 13: I think that the you know, the overriding sentiment. Honestly,

1719
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 13: isn't that hard to explain. People were absolutely shocked by

1720
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,480
Speaker 13: what happened in October seventh. It was something that Israelis

1721
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,280
Speaker 13: not only couldn't have predicted, they couldn't have even imagined it,

1722
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,080
Speaker 13: with maybe the small exception of a very few people

1723
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 13: who are monitoring those border outposts, you know, in army

1724
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 13: and Army intelligence and you know, and Israeli intelligent services,

1725
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 13: but who weren't taken seriously enough. But the vast majority

1726
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 13: of the population couldn't even conceive of something like this,

1727
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 13: so that you have to realize the shock of uncertainty

1728
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 13: and instability was added to, of course the national trauma

1729
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 13: of so many people being killed, slaughtered, atrocities, kidnapped, et cetera,

1730
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 13: and then immediately.

1731
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 8: Launching into war.

1732
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 13: And I think that at a time like that, it

1733
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 13: makes sense that people don't immediately want to go into

1734
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 13: something like an election cycle or a major government shakeup,

1735
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:15,759
Speaker 13: especially because it's not clear even if you avoided elections

1736
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 13: and simply had a coalition shakeup, and you know, re

1737
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 13: re established a new coalition with a different leader, or

1738
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 13: you know, or somehow the couldward to decide that antenna

1739
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 13: who's out is That leads to tremendous instability, and I

1740
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 13: think most people couldn't really conceive of that, with the exception,

1741
01:26:32,280 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 13: as I said, of about a quarter of the population

1742
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 13: who believe that every day he's still in power actively

1743
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:42,960
Speaker 13: either you know, endangers the war effort and really diminishes

1744
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:45,439
Speaker 13: the country's prospect for getting through it, and they feel

1745
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 13: like he really is a danger as long as he's

1746
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 13: in power despite the war. But yes, you know, more

1747
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 13: than about close to twice as many would prefer that

1748
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 13: he leave after the war effort is over. I would

1749
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 13: also point out that there's a problem with that because

1750
01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 13: there's no.

1751
01:26:57,560 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 8: Clear end date for this war.

1752
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 13: The kinds of goals and aims that the government has

1753
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 13: set for the most part, other than bringing the hostages back,

1754
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 13: which is a beast objective, the idea that Hamas can

1755
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 13: be destroyed militarily and as a governing power is not

1756
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:14,759
Speaker 13: something that's very easily measurable, or at least the government

1757
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 13: has not explained how it plans to measure that, And

1758
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 13: so when people say we want him gone when the

1759
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:23,400
Speaker 13: war is over, that is a pretty amorphous future aim.

1760
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 4: So Dahlia.

1761
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 1: One of the things that October seventh represented was the

1762
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,600
Speaker 1: stunning failure of the net Yahoo doctrine. The idea that

1763
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: you could sort of maintain this brutal status quo for Palestinians,

1764
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:38,280
Speaker 1: that you could thwart the establishment of any sort of

1765
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: Palestinian state or any sort of justin lasting peace, and

1766
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 1: that he could quote unquote control the height of the flames.

1767
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 1: So how are Israelis processing the failure of that doctrine.

1768
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:53,760
Speaker 1: Does it lead them more in the direction of questioning

1769
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,760
Speaker 1: that maintenance of the brutal status quo and more in

1770
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: the direction of, hey, maybe we need to after this

1771
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,479
Speaker 1: is over, try to figure out some sort of a

1772
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 1: lasting and just piece, or does it lead in the

1773
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:07,959
Speaker 1: opposite direction of No, we need to do the security

1774
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: state harder, we need more machine guns mounted at the border,

1775
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:14,680
Speaker 1: we need a more right wing and militaristic leader in

1776
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 1: charge here.

1777
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 8: Well, this is exactly, you know, the most complicated question

1778
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 8: that I.

1779
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 13: Think those Israelis who believe that there should be some

1780
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 13: sort of negotiated political resolution are struggling with to figure out.

1781
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 13: And I think the reason is that Israelis right now

1782
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 13: are focused very much on the short term and the

1783
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 13: immediate aim of dealing with the war and just coping

1784
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 13: day to day. I mean, I don't want to get

1785
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:36,680
Speaker 13: into the comparison because what Gosins are coping with day

1786
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 13: to day is intolerable. But from Israeli experienced, people are

1787
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 13: dealing with what they know about, which is, you know,

1788
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,599
Speaker 13: two hundred thousand people who've been evacuated and who are displaced,

1789
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 13: you know, sirens and rockets falling all over the country,

1790
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:51,040
Speaker 13: and the scent from the center to the south and

1791
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:53,800
Speaker 13: also in the north. So people are thinking very short

1792
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 13: term about immediate dilemmas, you know, should there be a

1793
01:28:57,080 --> 01:29:01,959
Speaker 13: cease fire in exchange for hostage release or immediate dilemmas

1794
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 13: like that, And I think that the question of the

1795
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 13: long term do people analyze Natanyahu's doctrine as a policy?

1796
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 8: Right now?

1797
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:13,400
Speaker 13: They're thinking very immediately about his failures, about how they

1798
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 13: many feel like he's betrayed the country's security, as I

1799
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 13: mentioned before. But I have to say that with all

1800
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 13: the polls that have been done, and there have been

1801
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:23,639
Speaker 13: at least twenty five polls that I know about, it's

1802
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:25,720
Speaker 13: very hard to get at this longer term sense of

1803
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 13: whether Israelis are analyzing his policy as a doctrine.

1804
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 8: There's been lots of articles about it.

1805
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 13: Of course, there was a major one in the New

1806
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 13: York Times yesterday exposing in great detail the decisions made

1807
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:39,759
Speaker 13: over the course of the last decade to supply Hamas

1808
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 13: with lots of money through Katar. That's being widely covered

1809
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 13: in the Israeli press, but ultimately Israelis knew about it anyway,

1810
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,360
Speaker 13: even before in the New York Times expose, which was excellent,

1811
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:51,439
Speaker 13: But they knew about it, and I think that they're

1812
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 13: just not quite at the level of analyzing the specific policy.

1813
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 8: Having said that, I am keeping a very close.

1814
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 13: Eye on what I would have expected to have, and

1815
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 13: which is that over time, over a few months to

1816
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:06,680
Speaker 13: maybe the next year, Israelis are likely to become more hardline.

1817
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 13: And I say that based on how Israelis have responded

1818
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 13: over the course of you know, half a year to

1819
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 13: a number of years following other phases of wars and escalations,

1820
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:21,599
Speaker 13: particularly when they involve major violence against Israeli civilians. When

1821
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 13: that happens, Israelis tend to self identify more as right wing,

1822
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 13: which is a very clear statement of the kinds of

1823
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 13: positions they espouse, you know, supporting more militarist solutions, opposing

1824
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:38,439
Speaker 13: concessions as Israelis see concessions, and more than anything, voting

1825
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:41,760
Speaker 13: for right wing parties who will not make concessions or

1826
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 13: undertake political negotiation towards a two state solution. So I

1827
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 13: think we have to understand that when people say their

1828
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 13: right wing, it involves the policies they support and very

1829
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,560
Speaker 13: clearly predicts which kinds of parties they will elect in

1830
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 13: the next elections. The last thing I'll say about where

1831
01:30:57,400 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 13: israelis are going. You know where I expected them to

1832
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 13: go and where they so far show that they're going,

1833
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:04,639
Speaker 13: which everything must be taken with a grain of salt.

1834
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 13: But for the most part, in most in every single survey,

1835
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 13: we see the parties that are benefiting from the loss

1836
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:14,600
Speaker 13: of trust and the government and the Coalition Parties is

1837
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 13: a sort of right wing but considered centrist, pragmatic right

1838
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:20,800
Speaker 13: wing party headed by former Chief of Staff Benny Gantz,

1839
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 13: who has joined the War Coalition. Which is interesting primarily

1840
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:28,080
Speaker 13: in that the votes that we don't see people flocking

1841
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 13: to the further right ultranationalist, extremist, theocratic, Jewish supremacist parties

1842
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:37,599
Speaker 13: are presented called religiosignism or Jewish Power. And it's interesting

1843
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 13: because those were the parties that had a kind of

1844
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,840
Speaker 13: surprisingly good result in the November elections, but they have

1845
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 13: not been doing particularly well. We're seeing all of the

1846
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 13: runoff votes going to a more what Israeli's view as

1847
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 13: a more moderate right wing party.

1848
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 8: If that holds, it'll it.

1849
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 13: Means that Israelis may turn to the right, but maybe

1850
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:56,680
Speaker 13: not to the far extreme right.

1851
01:31:57,280 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: Very interesting Zgan scene is sort of like a more

1852
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 1: competent version of Netanyahu.

1853
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 4: Is that the idea.

1854
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 13: Honestly, he's certainly seen as having you know, a great

1855
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:09,479
Speaker 13: deal of security creed credentials because he's at an entire

1856
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 13: career in the military, which is obviously the most you know,

1857
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 13: what Israelis really want right now during the war. But

1858
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 13: I think the main thing, if I had to conjure

1859
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 13: what Israelis generally think about Gans is that he's not

1860
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 13: compromised by having the particular kinds of personal political, personal

1861
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 13: and political interest that Tanyahu has. Because he's facing those

1862
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 13: corruption cases, there aren't many parties that would agree to

1863
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 13: go into a coalition with him. He is therefore kind

1864
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 13: of slavishly beholden to those extremist, you know, ultranationalist far

1865
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 13: right parties and of course the ultra orthodox parties, which

1866
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 13: frankly between you know, leaving the kudaside and Tanyaga's parties.

1867
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 13: All those other parties together represent only a minority of

1868
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:51,680
Speaker 13: Israeli society. The ultra nationalist religious Jewish parties and the

1869
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 13: ultra Orthodox parties. They only represent a minority, which means

1870
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:59,600
Speaker 13: that this government is is alienating the majority of citizens.

1871
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 13: And so I I think that they see the Natanya

1872
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 13: who is in a compromised position, and he cannot represent

1873
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 13: either the people's general orientation as we saw, that's why

1874
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 13: the protests against the government policies were so sweeping all year.

1875
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 13: But they also see that he's neglected basic competence of

1876
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 13: running you know, the state functions and the ministries and

1877
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 13: even to the point of neglecting Israeli security. And I

1878
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 13: don't think they see gans as being compromised in a

1879
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:25,679
Speaker 13: way that would lead to those failures.

1880
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 8: Even though I have to say that Gains is seen

1881
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:29,280
Speaker 8: as kind of a blank slate. Nobody really knows what

1882
01:33:29,400 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 8: he stands for other than day to day pragmatic gotcha,

1883
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:33,959
Speaker 8: no management.

1884
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:35,839
Speaker 4: He's not a visionary Dahlia.

1885
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 1: I know that you said that many Israelis are just

1886
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:40,080
Speaker 1: focused on kind of like the day to day getting

1887
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 1: through whatever is next, and we'll think more about the

1888
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:45,759
Speaker 1: long term in the future. But you know, the Ntnaho

1889
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: government has very much rejected the Biden administration's ideas for

1890
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 1: what Gaza could look like after this war is concluded.

1891
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: You know, they floated the Palestinian authority Netna, who says

1892
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 1: that's completely off the table. They have floated plans that they,

1893
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, seem to prefer of pushing all or many

1894
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: of the Palestinians out of the Gaza strip into Egypt

1895
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 1: and other surrounding countries. What is your sense of what

1896
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 1: the Israeli people actually want, I mean, what is the

1897
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 1: interest in any sort of a resolutionist to go back

1898
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 1: to the status quo?

1899
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 4: Is it to quote thin out the population?

1900
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:19,280
Speaker 1: As Netnyahu has asked one of his top aids to

1901
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:22,280
Speaker 1: come up with plans for What do they actually envision

1902
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:22,880
Speaker 1: for the future.

1903
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:25,280
Speaker 8: That's a very tough question.

1904
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:27,040
Speaker 13: I have to tell you that all the survey research

1905
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 13: I had done up until October seven showed that already

1906
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:32,600
Speaker 13: Israeli's you know, were deeply despairing of anything like a

1907
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 13: negotiated two state solution. That was, by the way, a

1908
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:37,360
Speaker 13: mirror image on the Palestinian side, because I do conduct

1909
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:40,599
Speaker 13: a joint Israeli Palestinian research, and both sides showed only

1910
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,640
Speaker 13: a minority about thirty five percent roughly thirty five to

1911
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:46,800
Speaker 13: forty percent, who supported a negotiated two state solution before

1912
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 13: October seventh. Now, interestingly, after October seven, the numbers have declined,

1913
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:54,040
Speaker 13: but not a huge amount. The lowest I've seen was

1914
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 13: about twenty nine percent, But I've also seen surveys showing

1915
01:34:57,240 --> 01:35:00,040
Speaker 13: about thirty five percent, So it still seems like that

1916
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 13: is a solution that is more credible than any other solutions.

1917
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:08,240
Speaker 13: Certainly in terms of other options for democratic based negotiated

1918
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 13: political frameworks for resolution, there's nothing else that comes close.

1919
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:14,320
Speaker 13: But that is only a minority. It doesn't bode well

1920
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:16,519
Speaker 13: for the future, and I think that Israelis are having

1921
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:18,760
Speaker 13: a very hard time in envisioning, partly because they're not

1922
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:21,600
Speaker 13: getting leadership on the issue. The Israeli government has not

1923
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:24,519
Speaker 13: proposed certain not since October seventh, but frankly not before

1924
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:27,720
Speaker 13: October seven, for a very long time, for at least

1925
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,560
Speaker 13: a decade, since the last serious negotiations under Secretary of

1926
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:34,680
Speaker 13: State John Kerry in twenty thirteen fourteen. For about a

1927
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:38,360
Speaker 13: decade Israelis have not even heard their leaders talk about

1928
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:41,760
Speaker 13: something like a diplomatic resolution to the Israel Palestinian conflict. Now,

1929
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:43,599
Speaker 13: I don't really think it's fair to say that all

1930
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:47,560
Speaker 13: of Israel wants to expel all Palestinians, but let's face it,

1931
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 13: Israelis are feeling very emotional right now, extremely traumatized and angry.

1932
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 8: I don't want to pretend that those sentiments don't exist.

1933
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 13: I will say, we all know the document that was

1934
01:35:57,439 --> 01:36:01,360
Speaker 13: circulated as in not very almost a sham ministry, But

1935
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 13: I don't want to understate the value of that, you know,

1936
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 13: the importance of that either because people in the government

1937
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,200
Speaker 13: are talking about those kinds of plans, and we see

1938
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:11,040
Speaker 13: what's going on on the ground with Palestinians being systematically

1939
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:14,720
Speaker 13: dislocated from you know, major parts of Gaza, especially Gaza City,

1940
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:18,080
Speaker 13: being practically destroyed, uninhabitable, it won't be inhabitable for years

1941
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:21,360
Speaker 13: to come. You know, we're seeing you know, herting together

1942
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 13: the Palestinian population in the south and conditions that are

1943
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:25,600
Speaker 13: frankly unlivable.

1944
01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:26,599
Speaker 8: At this moment.

1945
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,599
Speaker 13: It very much looks like there are forces that maybe

1946
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:31,679
Speaker 13: don't want to say it explicitly, but that they hope

1947
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:34,320
Speaker 13: lots of cousins would leave. And I think that, you know,

1948
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:36,719
Speaker 13: I have to acknowledge that I'm sure that that sentiment

1949
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,360
Speaker 13: does exist in Israeli society. We've seen it in earlier

1950
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 13: years as well in survey research. But I'd like to

1951
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:45,639
Speaker 13: hope that if there's a pragmatic leadership, that they would

1952
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:49,799
Speaker 13: start leading, rather than only following a public that is feeling,

1953
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 13: you know, really not at its finest moment, understandably, but

1954
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:55,880
Speaker 13: that leadership would say these are not things that any

1955
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:59,879
Speaker 13: you know, country should be considering, you know, expelling the population,

1956
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:03,120
Speaker 13: nor assuming that you can in any way control of

1957
01:37:03,160 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 13: Palestinians militarily forever. I think the only possible approach that

1958
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:11,439
Speaker 13: is both morally, legally and politically correct is to achieve

1959
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,760
Speaker 13: and negotiated political resolution of some sort.

1960
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:15,160
Speaker 8: But I have to say that for those of us

1961
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:17,200
Speaker 8: who've been working on that issue for so.

1962
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 13: Many years, I'd say I think I've reached up to decades.

1963
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 13: At this point, it looks frankly more hopeless than ever.

1964
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,360
Speaker 13: It doesn't mean that doesn't mean we'll stop trying, but

1965
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,320
Speaker 13: it is a very hard sell in Israel right now.

1966
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 4: I have to remember that Dahlia.

1967
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:31,280
Speaker 1: One last question for you, which is I saw a

1968
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 1: whole come out of Israeli Jews, and fifty eight percent,

1969
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:37,639
Speaker 1: I believe was the number who felt that the IDF

1970
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:42,280
Speaker 1: wasn't doing enough, wasn't aggressive enough in terms of their

1971
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:45,639
Speaker 1: bombing campaign in Gaza and the ground invasion. Of course,

1972
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 1: we're watching the images here. We've seen the thousands of

1973
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 1: children killed, as you said, Gaza city rendered uninhabitable, et cetera,

1974
01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 1: one point eight million, dousands displaced, and it was only

1975
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 1: I believe one point eight percent of Israeli Jews who

1976
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:01,799
Speaker 1: felt the IDF had gone too far in this campaign.

1977
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:03,840
Speaker 4: Wonder if you can help us make sense of that.

1978
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:07,960
Speaker 1: You know, are Israelis seeing the images coming out? Are

1979
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 1: they aware of the mass civilian death toll, which you

1980
01:38:12,479 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 1: know is at least sixty percent civilians and probably much higher.

1981
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:17,720
Speaker 4: You know, just help us understand this.

1982
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think that you know. Of First of all,

1983
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:21,560
Speaker 8: I'm not going to try to excuse it.

1984
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 13: I just think that if we're going to try to

1985
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 13: explain it to some extent, Israelis aren't confronted with the

1986
01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 13: visuals as much as anybody.

1987
01:38:28,040 --> 01:38:29,880
Speaker 8: For example, watching Elgazero.

1988
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,720
Speaker 13: Would be even watching Elga zero English, which I often do,

1989
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:34,560
Speaker 13: gives you a much much more up close, you know,

1990
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 13: sense of exactly how vast the devastation is and how

1991
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 13: apocalyptic it is. And most ra Asraeli as we're watching

1992
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 13: Israeli news, so they're not getting quite the same level

1993
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 13: of visual imagery.

1994
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 8: But having said that, my personal theory and I.

1995
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,200
Speaker 13: Don't really have survey data on this, is that Israelis

1996
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,439
Speaker 13: do essentially know at a bigger level. You really can't

1997
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 13: avoid the broads, you know, the broad contours of what's

1998
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 13: happening and the information in this day and age people

1999
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:00,920
Speaker 13: are on social media, you know, and even the israel

2000
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:03,920
Speaker 13: It's not like the Israeli media is exactly hiding it either.

2001
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,200
Speaker 8: Of course, there's much more focus on the Israeli experience.

2002
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 13: So I think that when I hear that kind of thing,

2003
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:11,160
Speaker 13: a they're not you know, it's not as they're not

2004
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,920
Speaker 13: as emotionally or viscerally connected to the level of en

2005
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:17,599
Speaker 13: scope of devastation in Gaza. Even if they know the numbers,

2006
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:19,640
Speaker 13: they don't feel it and see it, you know, in

2007
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:22,360
Speaker 13: their bones when they when they you know, encounter the

2008
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 13: news media.

2009
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:24,920
Speaker 8: And I think the other aspect if I had to

2010
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:25,280
Speaker 8: try to.

2011
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 13: This is quite speculation, but I think that there may

2012
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,479
Speaker 13: be a sense that the more, you know, the tougher

2013
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,920
Speaker 13: Israel is right now, and the more aggressive the campaign is,

2014
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:35,439
Speaker 13: the faster this will come to an end.

2015
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 8: Now, I'm not pretending that again, like, let's not pretty

2016
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:39,200
Speaker 8: any of this up.

2017
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 13: You know, the Israeli public is feeling aggressive right now,

2018
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:46,080
Speaker 13: but I also think that people are really devastated living

2019
01:39:46,120 --> 01:39:48,439
Speaker 13: through this war. I mean, the country feels very much

2020
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 13: on you know, partly shut down. Everybody's depressed and running

2021
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,680
Speaker 13: into shelters all the time, and I think that from

2022
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:58,280
Speaker 13: the Israeli perspective, nobody really wants this to go on.

2023
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:00,400
Speaker 8: People often don't even want to ask each other how

2024
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:00,960
Speaker 8: they're doing.

2025
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:03,120
Speaker 13: Because they're afraid to get the answer of how terrible

2026
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 13: everybody feels. And everybody's losing people all the time. So

2027
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 13: I think that part of it is, you know, there's

2028
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,760
Speaker 13: certainly elements of you know, fury and vengeance. There's also

2029
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,439
Speaker 13: elements of there's nothing else Israel can do because again

2030
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 13: Israeli public hasn't been told to think about diplomatic options

2031
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 13: in a very long time, and the sense that maybe

2032
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 13: if we just you know, if Israel just goes in

2033
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:26,400
Speaker 13: very aggressively in part that it eventually will you know,

2034
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:29,200
Speaker 13: achieve that aim of destroying from US as governing and

2035
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 13: military power and bring.

2036
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:31,120
Speaker 8: This to an end.

2037
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:34,840
Speaker 13: Add to all that the sheer kind of confusion and

2038
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 13: frustration about how Israelis are supposed to expect a hostage release,

2039
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:42,599
Speaker 13: knowing that the government that the more aggressive the attack,

2040
01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 13: the armed military campaign is, the less likely they are

2041
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:48,560
Speaker 13: to get the hostages back, and it leads to a

2042
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:51,240
Speaker 13: lot of I think mixed feelings behind the numbers.

2043
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:53,799
Speaker 3: Wow, this has been incredibly insightful.

2044
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you taking the time and we would

2045
01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 2: hope to have you back on sometime soon and we'll

2046
01:40:58,080 --> 01:40:58,960
Speaker 2: have a link to your description.

2047
01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 3: So thank you, thank so much.

2048
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 4: Thank you.

2049
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 3: All right, we'll see you guys later.

2050
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:16,840
Speaker 10: M hmm