1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: never told you. It's around Valentine's Day here in the 3 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: United States, and since I'm rarely in relationships, on Valentine's Day, 4 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: I usually get together with my other single female friends 5 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: and we get things like pizza and French fries and 6 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 1: watch movies together, and it is a lovely time. We 7 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: were doing Valentine's Day before Parks and Direct popularized it. 8 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: I suspect a lot of us were. And my mom 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: was also really great about Valentine's Day. Two She would 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: make me these flowers out of tissue paper and write 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: really sweet cards for me. UM and I used to 12 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: feel a lot of pressure and Loki shame to be 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: honest that I was alone on Valentine's Day, But these 14 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: day days, I've mostly overcome it. This Valentine's Day, I 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: had some friends over and we played board games and 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: we saw Marvel on ice because we are the coolest 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: people you have ever heard of. UM. I've spoken a 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: lot before about how I'm single and I'm happy that way, 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: but people refuse to believe it, or they cannot believe it. 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: I get strange looks, all sorts of questions that I'm 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: surprised people feel comfortable enough to ask. Basically, aren't you 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: worry to dial learn? Or but you're old? Or you 23 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: must be the saddest person. Something is clearly wrong with you. 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: And I've heard that same thing from a lot of 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 1: my single friends. This classic episode is all about this 26 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: single hood stigma and how we single women are terrifying 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: to people enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you 28 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to 29 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Kristen did some 30 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: reading this weekend, and did you know that one hundred 31 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: million Americans, that's over half the population are unmarried according 32 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: to the Census Bureau. This means that half of the 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: over eighteen population is being overlooked by some very important 34 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: policies talking about these single people, single adults, the single adults. Yeah, 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: and we ran across an article last week over at 36 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: Tara Parker Pope's wellness blog at the New York Times, 37 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: and she was reporting on how some social scientists and 38 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: researchers think that because of this huge population and growing 39 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: population of American adult singles, that a lot of them 40 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: are being overlooked in terms of benefits, pay taxes and 41 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: things like that. And too much emphasis is being put 42 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: on the holy altar of marriage, right and you know, uh, 43 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: we're fighting for a marriage equality. Yeah, but whether you're 44 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: gay or straight, if you're single, you're going to be 45 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: left behind any marriage reform. You know, that's great, but 46 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: it's still leaving the single people out of that. And 47 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: Naomi Girstell, a sociologist at University of Massachusetts amherst Um, says, 48 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: this push for marriage essentially assumes that if you don't 49 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: get married, there is something wrong with you. Um, but 50 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: a huge proportion of the population is unmarried, and the 51 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: single population is only going to grow. And um, there's 52 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: this September editorial, So a recent editorial and the Guardian 53 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: um sort of brings up the subject of should partners 54 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: have similar rights to um, too married to to spouses? Yeah, 55 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: I started bringing up the the idea of reviving a 56 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: common common law kind of marriage, right. Yeah. It said 57 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: something like it's been there's been no common law marriage 58 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: since the eighteenth century, but most of the population still 59 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: thinks that it exists. And um, and it's good that 60 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: you bring up the issue of partners because when we 61 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: say single, a lot of times, you'll probably assume that 62 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: someone who's completely unattached, like not any kind of long 63 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: term or dating relationship at all. But remember, in this context, 64 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: single applies to just someone who is not married. And um, 65 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: So the Guardian was talking about the Office for National 66 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: Statistics which found that the key to a strong marriage 67 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: is actually to live together first. It's cohabitation. Um and 68 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: On suggests that cohabitation is seen as promoting rather than 69 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: competing with marriage, and uses um this argument to suggest 70 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: that maybe we should have more rights as as domestic 71 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: partners or just you know, folks living together. Yeah, and 72 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about premarital cohabitation as it is formerly called 73 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: on the podcast before and talking about whether or not 74 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: um it predicts divorced because there was a study that 75 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: came out a while ago saying that people who lived 76 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: together before they get married are then more likely to 77 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: get divorced. They're all of these statistics that we saw 78 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: about how people who lived together who are unmarried, you know, 79 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: they drink more, and they weigh more, and they have 80 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: lower incomes and you know, basically at all coming emphasizing 81 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: this point over and over again that that marriage you know, 82 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: especially the heterosexual marriage ideal is uh is where it's 83 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: at in terms of family stability. UM. But a lot 84 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: of times to people who are promoting those kind of 85 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: ideas are uh, you know, a little more conservative, little 86 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: agenda based. Yeah. People's ideas of marriage are often based 87 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: on things that they grew up with, the norms that 88 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: they were surrounded by. And these ideals and norms can 89 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: actually have a big effect on the workplace. And according 90 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: to a Busy This Week article from a couple of 91 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: years ago, UM, unmarried people wind up making an average 92 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: less than their married colleagues for the same work just 93 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: because of this marriage centric structure that we have going on. Right, 94 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: there just more built in uh benefits for people who 95 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: are married and have children. Um. And there have been 96 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: a lot of companies since this Business Week article came 97 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: out that have tried to be more inclusive, specifically for 98 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: like same sex partners. UM kind of taking away the 99 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: the formal you know, box of of marriage, so the 100 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: to provide rights for our benefits for other people. But 101 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, the penalties still exists. 102 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: And what is it the Family UM Medical Leave Act, 103 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: like a federal law. Bella Depollo is a psychologist and 104 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: she is one of the number one voices about singleism. 105 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: She even coined the term singleism h to as a 106 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: catch all for the you know kind of anti single 107 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: discrimination against single folks. Yes, discrimination. Yeah, And she cites 108 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: the Family and Medical Leave Act as an example of 109 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: it because legally, since she's single and doesn't have any children, 110 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: no one can take time off under the law to 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: care for her if she becomes really sick, and it's 112 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: not required that she'd be given time off to care 113 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: for siblings, nephews, close friends. I mean, in my case, 114 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: I have um a number of I've lost count and 115 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: have a number of nieces and nephews and um and 116 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: it would be great to have, you know, similar freedom 117 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, pick them up from 118 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: soccer practice. If my sister was in a bind or rights, 119 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: it would be nice to know that you wouldn't lose 120 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: your job because you had to take care of one 121 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: of those nieces or nephews, you know, if they were 122 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: sick or a sibling. It would be nice to know 123 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: you had a job to come back to, or even 124 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: a good friend or a podcast go host. I'm in 125 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: good health, though, I assure you, and the thing is 126 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: single people could use some more assistance because statistically we're 127 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: the ones putting in um, you know, the volunteer hours, 128 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: UM kind of keeping things running into your society run 129 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: and our communities and parents. Before you turn off the 130 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: podcast to say you don't understand, I don't have you know, 131 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: I don't have time to do this. I'm caring for children. 132 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: It's not parenthood that's the issue, according to Naomi Girsel, 133 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: that's sociologists from amherste Caroline mentioned earlier. She told The 134 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: New York Times, it's not having children that isolates people. 135 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: It's actually the marriage down. Yeah. Once people get married, 136 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: they tend to turn their energies inward. They've played the game. Yeah, 137 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: they won, they got their partner and I'm not that 138 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: sounds really cynical and I'm not really that cynical, but um, yeah, No, 139 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: Studies have shown that once people get married, they turn 140 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: their focus away from friendships, extended family and the community 141 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: and turn it inward on their own family that they're building. Yeah, 142 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm just for an example, this is from the Council 143 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: and Contemporary Families, UM, looking at who is taking care 144 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: of aging parents with the booming or the the aging boomer. 145 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: Population of unmarried women take care of parents compared to 146 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: six eight percent of married women. For men, it's only 147 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: sixty seven percent of unmarried men compared to just thirty 148 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: eight percent of married guys. And then also unmarried people 149 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: are more connected with family community and have higher volunteerism 150 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: rates UM. One in five take part in volunteer works 151 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: such as teaching, coaching, raising money for charities, and things 152 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: like that. Right, yeah, I have all sorts of time 153 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: to go volunteer with projects around Atlanta, being that I'm 154 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: a single person who eat lots of chocolates as I have. 155 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: You know what I do too, And I'm gonna be 156 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: honest with you right now, I don't. I don't volunteer enough. Well, 157 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: I volunteer time at my my keyboard. Kind it you 158 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: keep that economy rolling at my laptop. But I hope 159 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: you get out some Kristen, that you're not just sitting 160 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: in your keyboard, because if you didn't get out and 161 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: have friends, you would be the odd ball. Because the 162 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: statistics says that even more than I are even more 163 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: UM at all educational levels, unmarried individuals not only have 164 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: more friends than they're married counterparts. But they give these 165 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: friends more care, both practical and emotional. So I'm here 166 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: for you, thank you. And for married people, I'm here 167 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: for you too, although I won't understand your problems. But 168 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: here's the thing, though, the point of the podcast was 169 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: to talk about this, the answer the question of whether 170 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: or not single people are stigmatized. And here's the thing. 171 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: Not to make us sound like, uh, you know some 172 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: major stereotypes right now, Caroline, but you and I bit 173 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: into the demographic where we're about to get really really 174 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: stigmatized unless we put a ring on it soon. Yeah, 175 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: by a ring for myself. Yeah. Being married by age 176 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: and I'm about to hit eight is consistent with the 177 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: normative pattern and snaff ideology snaff standing for the standard 178 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: North American family, the ideal of like, you get married, 179 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: you have two point five kids, you get a white 180 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: pick events. So is the age for women where that's 181 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: like within the normal range, and so I have gone 182 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: past that. But although the average um statistically, I think 183 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: according to census data, the average age for women getting 184 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: married is like twenty six point seven years old. So 185 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: you're I mean, like you're closer, you're closer than you think. 186 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: You're just not right at that at that snaff So 187 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: I feel so much better. UM. I, on the other hand, 188 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: I am about I'm I'm rapidly a prow seven and 189 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: so I got I'm on a like husband countdown. They 190 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: don't have anyone that two months, so I can beat 191 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: the odds. Um. Yeah, we're talking about single stigma and 192 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: the fact that we are rapidly approaching the end of 193 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: our I don't know whatever acceptable stereotypical marriage period. UM 194 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: two thousand nine study by researchers at the University of 195 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: Missouri and Texas Tech called and I love this. I'm 196 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: not a loser. I'm not married. Let's all just look 197 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: at me. UM talked with ten women who were in 198 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: their thirties. Right in their thirties, UM talked to them 199 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: about what it was like being single, and a lot 200 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: of these women definitely said they felt stigmatized, despite the 201 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: fact that they were successful in their careers had good 202 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: lives otherwise. Part of this is that they were made 203 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: to be aware of the changing realities as they got older. 204 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: There were certain triggers that they faced, like going to weddings, 205 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: going to showers, you know, but a lot of it. 206 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: A big trigger is people around them, like coworkers, family members, 207 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: et cetera, who were all going, so, when are you 208 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: going to get married? And that just makes them more 209 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: aware of the fact that they're not married. Right. Well, 210 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting too that all of the 211 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: women had been told by other people they were just 212 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: being too picky. And it reminds me a lot of 213 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: And Caroline, I don't know if you heard about this book. 214 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: It came out maybe last year. Um, it got a 215 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: lot of pressed. It was Laurie Gottlee wrote it and 216 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: it was called Marry Him. The Case for Settling for 217 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: Mr Goodenough. Yeah, it upset a lot of people. Yeah, 218 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: because she was basically like, hey, you know what, ladies, 219 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: we're getting older. We need a little bit of stability. 220 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: Just take the nice guy who you know, might not 221 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: might not set your heart of flame, but he will 222 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: make you a casserole sometimes. And I'm really I mean, 223 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 1: that's really a you know, quite a nutshell to put 224 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: it in, but it's it's the same kind of thing 225 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: of like, hey, you know what, stopped being so picky? Um, 226 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: the media has just fed us lives about independent women myths. Well, yeah, 227 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: and also this notion that you know, you can have 228 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: it all and find you know, some an amazing partner. 229 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: Uh so, but just give up. Well that's like in 230 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: this study that we were just talking about, um, somebody 231 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: talked about their grandmother who said, well, just just go 232 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: ahead and get married and have the baby. You can 233 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: always divorce him later. And I feel like that's part 234 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: of this really archaic might be too strong a word, 235 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: but this just this notion of like you have to 236 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: do things in a certain order. You go to school, 237 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: you get married, you have a baby, and then everything 238 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: else is just second. And then the baby goes to school, right, 239 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: and then you you torment the baby about when you're 240 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: going to meet somebody. Baby, but baby, baby. But speaking 241 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: of unwet or speaking of children, though, now would be 242 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: a good time to bring up the fact that non 243 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: marital births um are becoming the warm as is. I mean, 244 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: if we've got a hundred million single folks, you know, 245 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: a number of whom are probably reproducing, you can imagine 246 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: that the rate of unwed motherhood has gone up. And 247 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: it's not just single mothers too, It's like people who 248 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: are living together, adopting children or having children together. Um, 249 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: And just to give you an idea from the c 250 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: d c UH, sixty percent of non marital births six 251 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, or two women in their twenties, 252 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: significantly higher than the forty two percent level in nineteen 253 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: seventy because back in the seventies and before teen, pregnancy 254 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: made up the large proportion of non marital births. But now, 255 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: you know, folks, our rage, you're having kids and it's 256 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: totally fine. And that's kind of following in the footsteps 257 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: of uh Iceland, Sweden, Norway were well over one half 258 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: of recent births are two women who aren't married. We're 259 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: becoming so European. Um. The Business Week article ment ends 260 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: along the same lines that children will live with their 261 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: mom and her boyfriend before they turn sixteen, and it 262 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: goes on to say that, you know, it would be 263 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: better for kids to have a more stable environment to 264 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: grow up in, But it seems like this is going 265 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: to be so much more common than it already is. Well, 266 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: I mean, if studies that they've done. It reminds me 267 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: of um uh, some research that came out last year 268 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: looking at the child outcomes from um, you know, same 269 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: sex parents, households, basically wondering whether or not, you know, 270 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: if kids are raised by two men as opposed to 271 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: a man and a woman, will they be fine? And 272 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: the answer is yes, yes, if you have a stable 273 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: dual head household, then that's the best chance for for 274 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: positive outcomes. But it does not mean that you have 275 00:16:53,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: to be married. So not all numbers are super encouraging 276 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: when we're talking about being single and whatnot. Did you know, 277 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: according to the census breakdown in that there are eighty 278 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: eight unmarried men eighteen are over for every one hundred 279 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: single women eighteen and over, there's a gap gap. It's like, yeah, 280 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: it's unmarried US residents over the age of eighteen were women. 281 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: But yeah, then it's like surprise when you break it 282 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: down further, you know, but don't confine yourself just to 283 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: the American borders. Oh well, you're right, you're right, and 284 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 1: I have not you can go elsewhere. But speaking of 285 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: men um, I have to cross the junction. God, it's okay, 286 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: you would have an international site. I guess I can 287 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: go to Canada. I don't know those accents, but hey, 288 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: a lot of connection. Hey it was a joke, it 289 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: was a joke. I have I have relatives in Minnesota. Um. 290 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: But speaking of men, though, one thing that stood out 291 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: to me from all the single stigma information is that 292 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: a lot of times, it seems like and maybe it's 293 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: just the way the research has been conducted, perhaps they 294 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: said simply have not sat men down and asked him, Hey, 295 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: how do you feel being the single guy at the table? Um, 296 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: But it seems like this social stigma is mostly directed 297 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: at women in their late twenties and thirties, and then 298 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, beyond that, then we're just called crazy cat 299 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: ladies and forgotten about all star on our own Kathy cartoon. 300 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, I'm asking men out there, you know, 301 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 1: is there do you feel any kind of single stigma? 302 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: Do you feel pressure if you're in a relationship? Do 303 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: you feel the pressure to get married or somehow or 304 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: moving do something to take it to the next step, 305 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: to somehow legitimize it in society's viewpoint, right, I mean, 306 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: there definitely are stigmas out there still, Um, despite the 307 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: fact that there's just this growing number of single people, 308 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: people who were living together, or people who are just 309 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: in long term relationships and not getting married. It's growing, 310 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, the numbers are getting bigger, but there's still 311 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: a stigma. Well, I think we kind of hit this 312 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: point to where, first of all, we live so long, 313 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: so you know, I mean, you're gonna be with someone 314 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: for a really long time if it really is until 315 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: death to you part, and the divorce rate is so high, 316 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,239 Speaker 1: and there is, at least with our generation, Caroline, not 317 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: this rush to find your career and find your spouse 318 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: and settle down. We're delaying marriage. We're hopping around, trying 319 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: out different kinds of jobs and things like that. So 320 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: I'll be really interested to see, I don't know how 321 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: all of this shakes out and if we will at 322 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: some point kind of as a society mature out of 323 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: the heteronormaty of marriage structure. Right. Yeah, it's it's I 324 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: think it's gonna be hard to move past that, the stereotypes, 325 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: the scripts and schema. Um. But I mean it's just 326 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: becoming so common, so obviously there's a disconnect there, somewhat 327 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: a cultural lag, if you will. Yeah, So the romantic 328 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: sexual partner, it's just it's not the only way to 329 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: be satisfied in life people. Yeah, and maybe it's time 330 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: for us to reclaim the term single because that also 331 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: came up a lot like a lot of single people 332 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: do not like to label themselves as single because it 333 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: has that kind of cultural baggage of so what do 334 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: they call? And well, I don't know, maybe maybe we 335 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: should just make a single cool, you know, singles the 336 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: new Uh. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I'm 337 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: already failing at this and I can't well help us out. 338 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: Let us know your thoughts, UM, and married people too. 339 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: What what's your perspective on this, the growing sea of 340 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: singles around you? Or do you even notice it at all? 341 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: Send us an email mom Stuff at how stuff works 342 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: dot com. And I've got a little email here to 343 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: read right quick, Um, a little email. H. This is 344 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: in regard to our episode on women in um journalism 345 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: and broadcasting and uh. Patricia is offering us insight into 346 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: women and broadcasting in Germany. Uh. She said, I just 347 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: listened to the Women in Broadcasting podcasts and thought you 348 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: might like to know that growing up in Germany during 349 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: the seventies, women were almost always anchored national and international news. 350 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: We watch a R D and zd F. I'm assuming 351 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: those are two of the two main networks. The women 352 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: were always professional and conservatively dressed. They were well groomed 353 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: and very articulate, and they sat in front of simple 354 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: desks with very spartan backgrounds. There was no fluff or flash. 355 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: Um and I'm gonna have to watch it. She sent 356 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: a link to some old school German news broadcasts, So 357 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna check it out. And if you have any 358 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: links to send our way again. Our email addresses mom 359 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can also 360 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: find us over on Facebook and follow us on Twitter 361 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast. Of course, you can check out 362 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: the blog during the week. It's stuff Mom Never told 363 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: You at how stuff Works dot com. Be sure to 364 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 365 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most 366 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works 367 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes.