WEBVTT - 12. Resolve 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:08.039 Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. Christopher Vaughan 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.360 was arrested nine days after his family was killed as 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.040 he prepared for their funeral, and he was held for 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:15.920 five years before his trial. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.239 Prosecutors had originally planned to try this case as a 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.759 death penalty case. Vaughn is facing four counts of first 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.040 degree murder for the killings of his wife, Kimberly, and 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:28.120 their three children, twelve year old Abigail, eleven year old 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.680 Cassandra in eight year old Blake. Prosecutors claim it was 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.559 Vaughn who pulled the trigger and staged his own injuries. 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.800 Prosecutors say Christopher Vaughan killed his family so he could 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.080 begin a new life in Canada. Vaughan's attorney says the 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.920 evidence will show Kimberly Vaughan committed murder suicide and that 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.040 her medication increased her likelihood of suicidal thoughts. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.080 Blood evidence at the scene of the family's suv did 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.560 not support Vaughn's version of events on that morning in 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.280 June of two thousand and seven. The defense concedes that 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.400 Christopher Vaughn was not a perfect husband or father, but 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.760 in closing arguments, attorney George Leonard claimed that Vaughn is 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.520 not a killer and that the state did not prove 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.479 its case beyond a reasonable doubt. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.080 Ultimately, Christopher Vaughan was convicted in twenty twelve by a 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.520 jury which took less than fifty minutes to come to 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.160 a verdict after a five week trial. Vaughn received four 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:34.240 lifetime sentences, one for each member of his family. Gaiale 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.720 Vaughan recently found a note she'd handwritten after visiting Chris 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.679 after his trial. It dated November eighth, twenty twelve, while 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.480 Vaughn was still being held at Joliet and had not 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.080 yet been sentenced. I've asked her to read it. 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.760 The note was written on the back of my visit paper. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.040 I usually made an outline when I went to visit Chris, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.840 and we tried visiting him once a week. I took 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:03.200 the train, So here's the note. Chris is realizing that 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.520 reading chess, learning Chinese are all to keep him from 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:13.040 feeling or understanding what happened. He needs to understand what happened. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:14.919 He may need help. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.400 He doesn't know where to start, who to talk to. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.440 He has for the past five years thought about everything 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:30.480 except it has been falled off, It's okay to talk 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:36.880 to Bill about the innocent project. George was upset over 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.280 the letter from Rose. He said it should have been 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:45.520 sent to Jerry and John. George hopes Chris can wait 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.640 until after sentencing to ask for help, because he will 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.840 not get it where he is now. That's what I 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.840 wrote down, because then it was a trip home on 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.560 the train to tell my husband. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.919 So the George you're referring to was Chris's public defender, 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:08.080 that is correct, and Jerry and John were his first attorneys. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:10.200 That is correct. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:15.560 So Rose, your younger sister, wrote a letter to Chris's 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.320 defense attorney. She was also at every single day of 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:19.880 the trial. 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.040 Yes, she was. She stayed with us the whole time. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.400 Did you know she planned to write a letter to George. 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:28.280 No, I did not. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.200 Rose kept a copy of that letter, which she has 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.800 shared with me. It gives a glimpse into the family's frustration. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.120 Having watched the five week trial and its conclusion. I've 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.400 asked her to read one particular paragraph. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.680 I feel that the jury made their mind up the 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.960 second week of trial. After the second week, they seemed 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.720 to be asleep more than awake. Specifically, the older lady 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.280 in the middle row that set next to the ball gentlemen. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.960 The men in the back road like to talk amongst themselves. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.400 The man in the corner next to the prosecution would 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.920 hit himself in the face at times. I'm assuming to 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.920 stay awake. After the third week, when the jury would 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.559 walk in, they would have more of a glare at us. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.000 During testimony, they would glare in our direction. I would 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.400 like for it to have been known that Chris and us, 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.960 the family could not see any of the graphic pictures 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.120 they wanted to see. All of us have emotion. I 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.920 feel that the jury wanted a show. The prosecution gave 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.560 them one. They had fancy power points and graphics. We 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.679 did not. The interesting thing was the prosecutions weren't always true. 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.440 That didn't seem to matter. They needed to know that 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.520 you were a public defender, not a high profile attorney. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.760 I mean no disrespect to you, but if I was 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.680 a jour that would have meant something. They needed to 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.760 know why this case took so long to come to 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.400 try aile. Did they think it was because we were 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.360 scrounging for evidence. They needed to know about the first 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.400 lawyers and why they were not on the case. I 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.440 don't believe that they knew or understood what a shadow 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.919 of a doubt meant. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.640 Why did you feel compelled to write that letter. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:26.159 Because there was such a difference in our two sets 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:31.839 of lawyers. The first set wanted to know everything, every 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.640 single thing that they could possibly learn and get any 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.839 glimmer about Chris, our family structure, the whole nine yards. 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:43.359 The second set, which is what I wrote this letter to, 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:49.040 couldn't be bothered. We were there, but we weren't listened to. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.000 He had his own thoughts and direction. He told us 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.680 that we were not allowed to talk to anybody, we 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.919 were not to show emotion at all in the courtroom, 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.320 and I think that really worked against us. I mean, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.320 it wasn't even an hour of deliberation and we get 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.040 the verdict. It felt like a gut punch. It was 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.360 twisted in such a way that it just was very 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:19.120 much of a disregard of a human life, and it 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.480 was just infuriating. It never felt like a fair trial. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:28.559 I mean, when a juror was asleep, sound asleep, nothing 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.960 was said that we saw the judge look at him, 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.680 and so how can it be a fair trial? And 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.039 that's why I wrote this letter. Because somebody has to 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:38.640 say something. 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.440 I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco and this is the final episode 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:54.480 of Murder in Illinois. 0:06:50.200 --> 0:07:03.480 Cry O Game to see the Ground. 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:15.800 Gang Crime Gage Well. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:26.000 Christopher Vaughan is now forty seven years old and at 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.440 the time of this episode's release, has been incarcerated for 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.240 more than fourteen years. According to the Illinois Department of 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:42.000 Corrections prisoner Database, Christopher Vaughan remains ineligible for discharge. When 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.800 we met in person, he told me he strives to 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:49.560 go unnoticed, spending his time mostly alone, drawing, reading, or 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.160 studying philosophy in Buddhists thought in effort to process his 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:57.320 loss and his life. As Gails mentioned, he's also taught 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.920 himself Mandarin and plays competitive chess. Once in prison, Vaughan 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.040 made the conscious decision to develop his mind as opposed 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.360 to going the prison route of building his body and 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.520 brute strength, because doing that would have only made him 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.880 more in keeping with what he had been accused and 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:20.720 convicted of being a monster. Over the course of this podcast, 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.679 we have laid out the complicated pieces of an unfathomable 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.720 tragedy and the legal aftermath that followed in its wake. 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.920 You've now heard the scope of circumstances leading up to 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.320 the arrest, indictment, trial, and conviction of Christopher Vaughan. In 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.720 addition to the existing evidence, both circumstantial and forensics, you 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.800 now have additional insight into the complex dynamics that played 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:51.319 into the family dysfunction and the investigation. So at this 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.480 point I pose the question, do you believe there is 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.320 reasonable doubt that Christopher Vaughan committed the four murders of 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.920 which he's been and for which he served fourteen years. 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.400 At the start of this podcast, journalist Erica Wurst was 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.319 very specific about her opinion of Christopher Vaughn's guilt. 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.520 I believe with. 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:24.400 Ninety eight point nine percent, Shorty that Cresta von So 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:26.880 his wife Emi in pe Freakot. 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.160 Two days before she was scheduled to tape her final 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:35.440 thoughts for this episode, she canceled, implying they wouldn't have 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:42.040 been utilized. This is where they would have been included. Perhaps, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:46.280 though worst reaction is in keeping with the polarizing nature 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.000 of this case and podcast, which has sparked spirited discussions, 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:56.800 debates online, and coverage from multiple outlets, including Rolling Stone Magazine. 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.800 Local Chicago stations like WGN. 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.920 That's an excerpt from a new true crime podcast called 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.000 Murder in Illinois. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.800 It details the murders of the Vaughn family in Oswego 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.320 back in two thousand and seven. Husband christ Vaughan has 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:15.120 been arrested and tried and convicted for the killings. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:15.679 On the next Doctor Phil. 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.120 The case and podcast will also be featured in upcoming 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.120 episodes of The Doctor Phil Show. To put it simply, 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.920 Christopher Vaughan's conviction has proven more than worthy of revisiting, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.280 and during the course of these twelve episodes, we have 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.120 laid out multiple examples in which circumstantial evidence and emotional 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.920 and confirmational bias were used in place of hard evidence 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:46.000 against him. The newly uncovered issues with how his indictment 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.240 was secured and the conclusions of the July crime scene 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:54.120 reconstruction also provide new and relevant evidence in support of 0:10:54.160 --> 0:11:00.000 his actual innocence. After that crime scene reconstruction, I try 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.400 again to meet with Christopher Vaughan. We sat alone and 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.400 I asked him what I had to ask him before 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.079 the end of this podcast. Did he kill his wife 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:15.360 and children? And did he ever intend or plan to 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.200 kill them? Without hesitation and holding eye contact with me 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:26.320 the entire time. Christopher Vaughan answered no, absolutely, not never, 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:32.920 and his eyes watered. As he said it today, fourteen 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:37.080 years after his arrest, there are significant and powerful voices 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.640 who believe there is reasonable doubt of Vaughan's guilt. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.880 When I first heard the story, I had doubt about 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:53.119 Chris Vaughan having committed this murder. When I reviewed Clutter's evidence, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:59.600 that nagging doubt turned into not only reasonable doubt, but 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:05.800 a little bit of outrage. This man is innocent. He 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.160 was wrongfully convicted. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:12.040 That's Jed Stone, the Stone of Stone and Associates, a 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.199 criminal defense lawyer from Illinois who is respected on a 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:16.080 national level. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:21.160 We're a little teeny law firm in Jaukegan, Illinois. It 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:26.000 is not one hundred and sixty five lawyers. It's one lawyer, 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:31.000 one paralegal, a Spanish speaking receptionist in a little town 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:37.240 in northern Illinois. And we've had nine exonerations and my 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:59.560 goal is to make mister Vaughan the tenth. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.120 But Stone and Associates will not be alone in their effort. 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.440 At the time of this recording, Christopher Vaughan is being 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.280 represented by Jed Stone, who will serve as Vaughn's lead council, 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:17.959 assisted by Bill Clutter, investigating Innocence, and outside consultant Richard Kling, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.920 clinical Professor of Law at the Chicago Kent College of Law. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:27.160 The involvement of other innocence organizations is still pending official confirmation. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:28.839 Here's Richard Klang. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.800 Jed is wonderful. I know Jed for forty something years. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.600 Jed has everything under control. If he has particular questions 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.160 regarding forensic issues. I teach forensic sciences and I've been 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.040 involved in many forensic cases. The biggest problem in this 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.520 case is the physical evidence merely supports a theory. And 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.320 it may be a viable theory, it may be a 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.120 wonderful theory. It may be an airtight theory, but it 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.480 is nothing more than the theory, and post conviction petitions 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.200 or clemency are rarely granted on your theories without something 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.680 more merely an uphill. It's an up mountain slope that 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.560 mister Vaughan is going to have to climb at. Any 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.280 time they call, I'll pick up the phone. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.160 But it's a steep effort that jud Stone believes he 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.480 is both well suited and prepared to. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:19.600 Lead The first hurdle that any wrongfully convicted person has 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:25.400 is the sad fact that the law loves finality more 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:32.040 than it loves justice. Judges, prosecutors, the press will all say, 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.760 this case is resolved. He's been found guilty. A jury 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.320 of his peers found him guilty. In appelle at court 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.880 reviewed the jury's findings and affirmed it. They don't like 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:48.200 to have the apple cart upset. I have on my 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:53.880 desk an encased cockroach, and I have it on my 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.440 desk for a reason. When I was a graduate student, 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.920 many many years ago, living in graduate student housing, I 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.920 woke up one night and went into the kitchen and 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.680 flicked on the light, and I saw cockroaches scurry as 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.200 the light shined on them. I didn't think much about them, 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.600 except that cockroaches hated the light being shown on them. 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:18.800 And then years later I became a lawyer, and I 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:23.360 realized that prosecutors and judges don't like the light of 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.800 truth shined on them. They scurry, they get nervous, And 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.120 so I put this cockroach on my desk. It's been 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.800 on my desk for forty five years, and my experience 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:38.840 has been that when the light of truth shines upon 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:43.720 these people, they scurry for cover. It's important because your 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:50.320 podcast is an important addition to the work that Clutter 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.000 and I are doing on behalf of mister Vaughan. I 0:15:54.160 --> 0:16:00.960 believe that judges and appellate courts and elected state's attorneys 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.920 are mindful of the eyes of the public that are 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.480 on them, and as long as we can tell the 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.960 truth and tell it in a variety of forums, they 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:19.200 will respond. It'll be uncomfortable for them, they don't want 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.280 to deal with these truths, but they will respond. And 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.320 so those are the two primary hurdles. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.560 Judstone is ready to tackle those hurdles. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.200 I'm convinced that there are things in the newly discovered 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:41.520 area of evidence that cause great question as to the 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.400 quality of the trial that Chris had and the reliability 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.480 of the results, and we're going to go after that 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:50.760 with full force. 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.760 And it seems they will fully be met with opposing force. 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.400 On September fifth, twenty twenty one, the Chicago Sun Times 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.080 was first to break the news there was now effort 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.840 underway to free Chris Vaughn. In that article, the will 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:10.040 County States Attorney James Glasgow went on record saying Vaughn 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.879 would go free quote when hell freezes over unquote. It 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.520 is a comment in keeping with the ones Glasgow gave 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:18.800 at the time of the verdict. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.679 What this guy did here was a diabolical atrocity. And 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.520 he's a heartless, soulless psychopath. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:27.960 That's the bottom line. 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.320 That's what he is, without any compassion, without any empathy 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:36.000 for other human beings. There isn't a punishment that fits 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.840 this crime. You could lock him up for five hundred 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.399 lifetimes and it would not compensate the victims in this 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.280 case or the family members. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.680 It is worth noting that a man known for delivering 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.120 such soundbites declined to speak to me about the Vaughan 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.120 case or the newly uncovered troubling issues surrounding the way 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.960 in which Vaughn's indictment was secured. In two thousand and seven, 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.280 here's Bill Clutter's reaction to the newspaper article. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.520 State's Attorney Glasgow's comments in the Chicago sometimes indicate that 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:14.280 he's willing to defend this conviction despite whatever evidence we 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.639 present to him. And that's all the more reason why 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:24.560 we need criminal justice reform in Illinois that establishes a 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:29.640 statewide Conviction Integrity Unit. When new evidence comes to light 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.200 that shows that a person may be innocent, it should 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.680 be an objective review rather than have the Will County 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.440 States Attorney be the arbitrator of truth. That's just simply 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:43.359 not justice. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.919 In that article, Glasgow also stated his opinion that the 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.400 new theory contradicts the crime scene evidence, insisting, quote the 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.840 angles are all wrong unquote. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.800 Yes, and even seeing our crime scene reconstruction, how can 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.800 you pass judgment on what we've done without looking at it? 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.200 That did take me back a little bit. Means he's 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.560 going to dig in his heels, and you know that's unfortunate. 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.000 It's a characteristic of how they jumped to the conclusion 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:17.000 that he was guilty, and now they're going to maintain 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.960 that belief despite whatever evidence we show them. It happens 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.560 time after time after time in all of these cases 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:30.040 that I've been involved in, despite strong and convincing evidence 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.520 of actual innocence, the prosepcutors who got it wrong are 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.400 always the last to admit that they made a mistake. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.600 That Chicago Sun Times article ended with James Glasgow declaring 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:45.000 the evidence against Vonn is quote overwhelming unquote and that 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.119 his office is quote ready for anything that occurs unquote 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:50.640 back to Bill clutter. 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:54.840 Well, the evidence wasn't overwhelming, and I think that time 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.639 will tell what happens in this case. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.280 To that effort, Jedstone will also be overseeing a committee 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.280 of powerful legal experts and innocence activists that has formed 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.280 an effort to support revisiting Christopher Bond's conviction. 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:20.560 Innocence cases require great teamwork from various angles and various 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:27.880 professional viewpoints, and they are really team efforts. No one 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.359 can do these alone. I can't do them alone. Clutter 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.040 can't do them alone. Together, we're a pretty good team. 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.320 The stronger our team, the better mister Vaughan's chances of 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.280 obtaining justice. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.040 What is the purpose of the committee and what do 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:45.520 you hope it will accomplish. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:52.040 A variety of views from a variety of different lenses 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.880 will be able to analyze the evidence and come up 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:03.000 with a plan that will formulate the arguments I'll ultimately 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.440 present to the Prisoner Review Board or to a court 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:13.760 to gain a reversal of conviction and exoneration. My job 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:19.359 is to consolidate those various ideas into a winning idea 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:25.240 and take the various threads and form a tapestry, take 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:30.359 the various thoughts and form an argument. It's the creative 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.560 process of being the lawyer that I love. 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.600 The committee has been growing steadily at the time of 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.760 this episode's release. It includes founding board member of the 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:46.160 Innocence Project Jason Flohm, prominent defense attorneys Andrea Lyon, Keith Altman, 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:51.639 Kitty Lyle, and Mario Kasharo. A quick aside before becoming 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.160 an attorney, Mario Kasharo was wrongfully convicted of a presumed 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:59.360 murder and serve time a minard before being freed and exonerated. 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.280 There he crossed paths with Christopher Vaughn. The two played 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:07.760 chess several times. Also on board is Jason Jutts, a 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:09.280 civil attorney from Hawaii. 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.560 My name is Jason Jutts. I'm an attorney in Honolulu, Hawaii, 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.719 and I do complex civil litigation. What drew me to 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.840 this case initially was the podcast. I wasn't aware of 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.439 the case before listening to the first episode, and I 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.440 just found the case and the idea that Chris is 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.800 innocent very compelling, which drove me to start digging into 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.399 the trial transcripts and the pre trial transcripts, and the 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.320 more I looked at that, the more I became convinced that, 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:41.199 if nothing else, the trial was grossly mishandled. I subscribed 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.720 to the Blackstonian ratio, which is this idea or philosophy 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.720 that it's better to let ten guilty persons go free 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.159 than to punish one innocent person, and I think that 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.840 that is very prevalent here. I just wanted to reach 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.240 out to see what I could possibly do to help, 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:00.960 even though I'm so very far away, don't have the 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:06.040 legal background in criminal justice, let alone anything to do 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.720 with Illinois law, but I thought that some of my 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.840 skills could come to bear and is sitting in his 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:12.280 exoneration efforts. 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.399 Jets is now connected with Jed Stone to offer his 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:17.320 services also pro bono. 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.560 I think it's a great thing that the legal community 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:25.200 in Illinois is starting to get together and mount support 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.560 on Chris's behalf. I had a great opportunity to speak 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:33.119 with Jed. He's a very knowledgeable, experienced attorney in Illinois, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:36.000 and I'm very appreciative that he's stepped up to take 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:39.120 the lead of the committee that's working on behalf of Chris. 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.280 One of the great things about this podcast is that 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:45.480 you've shed light on Chris's flight and gained attention for 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:50.480 him individually. But since this is sort of a national epidemic, 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:52.879 I think that it helps bring light to the bigger 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:57.920 issue here of how should we approach these cases moving forward? 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.600 How can we help eliminate some of the bas from 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:03.840 the bench and from the prosecutor side. I'm not even 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.800 talking about the confirmation bias of the jurors, or the 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:10.400 influence of the media, or the character assassination that Chris suffered, 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.280 but just looking at it through that legal lens, what 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.119 changes can we make moving forward to try to make 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:21.119 sure that innocent individuals aren't placed in in prison. And 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.040 it's really unfortunate when it happens in a situation where 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.160 you're talking about somebody's life. And I think that through 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.800 the discussion of Chris's case, one thing that's lost frequently 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:31.800 is that this started off as a death row case. 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:34.879 His life was literally on the line. 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:39.520 Bill Clutter's nonprofit Investigating Inno Sense, will continue to fight 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:43.000 for Chris Bond in addition to other wrongful convictions. 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:51.240 I want to encourage listeners to get involved. There's projects 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.919 in most every state, A Lisence project that helps the 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:59.360 wrongfully connected. If listeners are interested in volunteering or assisting 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.159 within the instigating innocence, go visit our website and let 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:07.280 us know how you're willing to help. I feel more 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:11.720 confident today that Christopher Vaughn will be free in the 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.919 near future and I'll be standing at the gates of 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:19.320 Pinkinbill Correctional Center with his parents and supporters welcoming him home, 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.800 and I can envision that day happening soon. 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:27.280 My hope is that these efforts do lead to either 0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:32.159 the governor or a judge at some point ordering his 0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:36.040 release and granting relief based on actual innocence. 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:41.680 Clutter will also be overseeing the second crime scene reconstruction, 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.760 which will challenge the state's theory in regards to the 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:48.440 ballistics beyond what was proven in the July crime scene 0:25:48.480 --> 0:26:04.280 reconstruction with animation. As mentioned in the first episode of 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:08.359 this podcast, Gail Vaughan has a private Facebook page titled 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.959 Christopher Vaughan is Innocent the last word in all caps. 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:16.040 When Chris went to prison, I tried to figure out 0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:19.240 how to share this with all the families without making 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:24.640 multiple phone calls, so I created a Facebook group and 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:27.560 with family and very close friends. There were seventeen of 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:35.200 us altogether. Since this podcast started, we have been growing unbelievably. 0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:39.560 It is turned into a support group. 0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:43.159 At the time of this episode, Gail's Facebook group has 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:47.360 grown from seventeen people to more than eleven hundred members. 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:52.280 It's overwhelming. I mean, we have been kind of climbing 0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:57.080 a hill, climbing a mountain, and it's been tough. But 0:26:57.240 --> 0:27:00.199 now we have these people that are on Facebook and 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:05.160 they are actually showing support and positive They are actually 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:09.960 reading everything and coming up with their own conclusions and 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:16.760 then discussing the possibilities of what happened. I mean, it's 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:21.360 very refreshing to see everybody thinking, actually thinking, after reading 0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:26.000 and hearing after so many years of not so many 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:27.080