1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois is a production of iHeartRadio. Christopher Vaughan 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: was arrested nine days after his family was killed as 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: he prepared for their funeral, and he was held for 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: five years before his trial. 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: Prosecutors had originally planned to try this case as a 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: death penalty case. Vaughn is facing four counts of first 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: degree murder for the killings of his wife, Kimberly, and 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: their three children, twelve year old Abigail, eleven year old 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: Cassandra in eight year old Blake. Prosecutors claim it was 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: Vaughn who pulled the trigger and staged his own injuries. 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 3: Prosecutors say Christopher Vaughan killed his family so he could 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 3: begin a new life in Canada. Vaughan's attorney says the 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 3: evidence will show Kimberly Vaughan committed murder suicide and that 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 3: her medication increased her likelihood of suicidal thoughts. 15 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 4: Blood evidence at the scene of the family's suv did 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 4: not support Vaughn's version of events on that morning in 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 4: June of two thousand and seven. The defense concedes that 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 4: Christopher Vaughn was not a perfect husband or father, but 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 4: in closing arguments, attorney George Leonard claimed that Vaughn is 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 4: not a killer and that the state did not prove 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 4: its case beyond a reasonable doubt. 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: Ultimately, Christopher Vaughan was convicted in twenty twelve by a 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: jury which took less than fifty minutes to come to 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: a verdict after a five week trial. Vaughn received four 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: lifetime sentences, one for each member of his family. Gaiale 26 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: Vaughan recently found a note she'd handwritten after visiting Chris 27 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: after his trial. It dated November eighth, twenty twelve, while 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: Vaughn was still being held at Joliet and had not 29 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: yet been sentenced. I've asked her to read it. 30 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 5: The note was written on the back of my visit paper. 31 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 5: I usually made an outline when I went to visit Chris, 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 5: and we tried visiting him once a week. I took 33 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 5: the train, So here's the note. Chris is realizing that 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 5: reading chess, learning Chinese are all to keep him from 35 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 5: feeling or understanding what happened. He needs to understand what happened. 36 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 6: He may need help. 37 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 5: He doesn't know where to start, who to talk to. 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 5: He has for the past five years thought about everything 39 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 5: except it has been falled off, It's okay to talk 40 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 5: to Bill about the innocent project. George was upset over 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 5: the letter from Rose. He said it should have been 42 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 5: sent to Jerry and John. George hopes Chris can wait 43 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 5: until after sentencing to ask for help, because he will 44 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 5: not get it where he is now. That's what I 45 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 5: wrote down, because then it was a trip home on 46 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 5: the train to tell my husband. 47 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: So the George you're referring to was Chris's public defender, 48 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: that is correct, and Jerry and John were his first attorneys. 49 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 5: That is correct. 50 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: So Rose, your younger sister, wrote a letter to Chris's 51 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: defense attorney. She was also at every single day of 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: the trial. 53 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 5: Yes, she was. She stayed with us the whole time. 54 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: Did you know she planned to write a letter to George. 55 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 5: No, I did not. 56 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: Rose kept a copy of that letter, which she has 57 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: shared with me. It gives a glimpse into the family's frustration. 58 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: Having watched the five week trial and its conclusion. I've 59 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: asked her to read one particular paragraph. 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 7: I feel that the jury made their mind up the 61 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 7: second week of trial. After the second week, they seemed 62 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 7: to be asleep more than awake. Specifically, the older lady 63 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 7: in the middle row that set next to the ball gentlemen. 64 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 7: The men in the back road like to talk amongst themselves. 65 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 7: The man in the corner next to the prosecution would 66 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 7: hit himself in the face at times. I'm assuming to 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 7: stay awake. After the third week, when the jury would 68 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,559 Speaker 7: walk in, they would have more of a glare at us. 69 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 7: During testimony, they would glare in our direction. I would 70 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 7: like for it to have been known that Chris and us, 71 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 7: the family could not see any of the graphic pictures 72 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 7: they wanted to see. All of us have emotion. I 73 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 7: feel that the jury wanted a show. The prosecution gave 74 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 7: them one. They had fancy power points and graphics. We 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 7: did not. The interesting thing was the prosecutions weren't always true. 76 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 7: That didn't seem to matter. They needed to know that 77 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 7: you were a public defender, not a high profile attorney. 78 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 7: I mean no disrespect to you, but if I was 79 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 7: a jour that would have meant something. They needed to 80 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 7: know why this case took so long to come to 81 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 7: try aile. Did they think it was because we were 82 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 7: scrounging for evidence. They needed to know about the first 83 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 7: lawyers and why they were not on the case. I 84 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 7: don't believe that they knew or understood what a shadow 85 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 7: of a doubt meant. 86 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: Why did you feel compelled to write that letter. 87 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 7: Because there was such a difference in our two sets 88 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 7: of lawyers. The first set wanted to know everything, every 89 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 7: single thing that they could possibly learn and get any 90 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 7: glimmer about Chris, our family structure, the whole nine yards. 91 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 7: The second set, which is what I wrote this letter to, 92 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 7: couldn't be bothered. We were there, but we weren't listened to. 93 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 7: He had his own thoughts and direction. He told us 94 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 7: that we were not allowed to talk to anybody, we 95 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 7: were not to show emotion at all in the courtroom, 96 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 7: and I think that really worked against us. I mean, 97 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 7: it wasn't even an hour of deliberation and we get 98 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 7: the verdict. It felt like a gut punch. It was 99 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 7: twisted in such a way that it just was very 100 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 7: much of a disregard of a human life, and it 101 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 7: was just infuriating. It never felt like a fair trial. 102 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 7: I mean, when a juror was asleep, sound asleep, nothing 103 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 7: was said that we saw the judge look at him, 104 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 7: and so how can it be a fair trial? And 105 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 7: that's why I wrote this letter. Because somebody has to 106 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 7: say something. 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco and this is the final episode 108 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: of Murder in Illinois. 109 00:06:50,200 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 8: Cry O Game to see the Ground. 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 9: Gang Crime Gage Well. 111 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: Christopher Vaughan is now forty seven years old and at 112 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: the time of this episode's release, has been incarcerated for 113 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: more than fourteen years. According to the Illinois Department of 114 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: Corrections prisoner Database, Christopher Vaughan remains ineligible for discharge. When 115 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: we met in person, he told me he strives to 116 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: go unnoticed, spending his time mostly alone, drawing, reading, or 117 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: studying philosophy in Buddhists thought in effort to process his 118 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: loss and his life. As Gails mentioned, he's also taught 119 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: himself Mandarin and plays competitive chess. Once in prison, Vaughan 120 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: made the conscious decision to develop his mind as opposed 121 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: to going the prison route of building his body and 122 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: brute strength, because doing that would have only made him 123 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: more in keeping with what he had been accused and 124 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: convicted of being a monster. Over the course of this podcast, 125 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: we have laid out the complicated pieces of an unfathomable 126 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: tragedy and the legal aftermath that followed in its wake. 127 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: You've now heard the scope of circumstances leading up to 128 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: the arrest, indictment, trial, and conviction of Christopher Vaughan. In 129 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: addition to the existing evidence, both circumstantial and forensics, you 130 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: now have additional insight into the complex dynamics that played 131 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: into the family dysfunction and the investigation. So at this 132 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: point I pose the question, do you believe there is 133 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt that Christopher Vaughan committed the four murders of 134 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: which he's been and for which he served fourteen years. 135 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: At the start of this podcast, journalist Erica Wurst was 136 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: very specific about her opinion of Christopher Vaughn's guilt. 137 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 10: I believe with. 138 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 6: Ninety eight point nine percent, Shorty that Cresta von So 139 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 6: his wife Emi in pe Freakot. 140 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: Two days before she was scheduled to tape her final 141 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: thoughts for this episode, she canceled, implying they wouldn't have 142 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: been utilized. This is where they would have been included. Perhaps, 143 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: though worst reaction is in keeping with the polarizing nature 144 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: of this case and podcast, which has sparked spirited discussions, 145 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: debates online, and coverage from multiple outlets, including Rolling Stone Magazine. 146 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: Local Chicago stations like WGN. 147 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 11: That's an excerpt from a new true crime podcast called 148 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 11: Murder in Illinois. 149 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 4: It details the murders of the Vaughn family in Oswego 150 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 4: back in two thousand and seven. Husband christ Vaughan has 151 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 4: been arrested and tried and convicted for the killings. 152 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 12: On the next Doctor Phil. 153 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: The case and podcast will also be featured in upcoming 154 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: episodes of The Doctor Phil Show. To put it simply, 155 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: Christopher Vaughan's conviction has proven more than worthy of revisiting, 156 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: and during the course of these twelve episodes, we have 157 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: laid out multiple examples in which circumstantial evidence and emotional 158 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: and confirmational bias were used in place of hard evidence 159 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: against him. The newly uncovered issues with how his indictment 160 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: was secured and the conclusions of the July crime scene 161 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: reconstruction also provide new and relevant evidence in support of 162 00:10:54,160 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: his actual innocence. After that crime scene reconstruction, I try 163 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: again to meet with Christopher Vaughan. We sat alone and 164 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: I asked him what I had to ask him before 165 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: the end of this podcast. Did he kill his wife 166 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: and children? And did he ever intend or plan to 167 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: kill them? Without hesitation and holding eye contact with me 168 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: the entire time. Christopher Vaughan answered no, absolutely, not never, 169 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: and his eyes watered. As he said it today, fourteen 170 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: years after his arrest, there are significant and powerful voices 171 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: who believe there is reasonable doubt of Vaughan's guilt. 172 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 12: When I first heard the story, I had doubt about 173 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:53,119 Speaker 12: Chris Vaughan having committed this murder. When I reviewed Clutter's evidence, 174 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 12: that nagging doubt turned into not only reasonable doubt, but 175 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 12: a little bit of outrage. This man is innocent. He 176 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 12: was wrongfully convicted. 177 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: That's Jed Stone, the Stone of Stone and Associates, a 178 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: criminal defense lawyer from Illinois who is respected on a 179 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: national level. 180 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 12: We're a little teeny law firm in Jaukegan, Illinois. It 181 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 12: is not one hundred and sixty five lawyers. It's one lawyer, 182 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 12: one paralegal, a Spanish speaking receptionist in a little town 183 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 12: in northern Illinois. And we've had nine exonerations and my 184 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 12: goal is to make mister Vaughan the tenth. 185 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: But Stone and Associates will not be alone in their effort. 186 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: At the time of this recording, Christopher Vaughan is being 187 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: represented by Jed Stone, who will serve as Vaughn's lead council, 188 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: assisted by Bill Clutter, investigating Innocence, and outside consultant Richard Kling, 189 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: clinical Professor of Law at the Chicago Kent College of Law. 190 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: The involvement of other innocence organizations is still pending official confirmation. 191 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: Here's Richard Klang. 192 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 13: Jed is wonderful. I know Jed for forty something years. 193 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 13: Jed has everything under control. If he has particular questions 194 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 13: regarding forensic issues. I teach forensic sciences and I've been 195 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 13: involved in many forensic cases. The biggest problem in this 196 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 13: case is the physical evidence merely supports a theory. And 197 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 13: it may be a viable theory, it may be a 198 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 13: wonderful theory. It may be an airtight theory, but it 199 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 13: is nothing more than the theory, and post conviction petitions 200 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 13: or clemency are rarely granted on your theories without something 201 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 13: more merely an uphill. It's an up mountain slope that 202 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 13: mister Vaughan is going to have to climb at. Any 203 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 13: time they call, I'll pick up the phone. 204 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: But it's a steep effort that jud Stone believes he 205 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: is both well suited and prepared to. 206 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 12: Lead The first hurdle that any wrongfully convicted person has 207 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 12: is the sad fact that the law loves finality more 208 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 12: than it loves justice. Judges, prosecutors, the press will all say, 209 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 12: this case is resolved. He's been found guilty. A jury 210 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 12: of his peers found him guilty. In appelle at court 211 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 12: reviewed the jury's findings and affirmed it. They don't like 212 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 12: to have the apple cart upset. I have on my 213 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 12: desk an encased cockroach, and I have it on my 214 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 12: desk for a reason. When I was a graduate student, 215 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 12: many many years ago, living in graduate student housing, I 216 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 12: woke up one night and went into the kitchen and 217 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 12: flicked on the light, and I saw cockroaches scurry as 218 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 12: the light shined on them. I didn't think much about them, 219 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 12: except that cockroaches hated the light being shown on them. 220 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 12: And then years later I became a lawyer, and I 221 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 12: realized that prosecutors and judges don't like the light of 222 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 12: truth shined on them. They scurry, they get nervous, And 223 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 12: so I put this cockroach on my desk. It's been 224 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 12: on my desk for forty five years, and my experience 225 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 12: has been that when the light of truth shines upon 226 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 12: these people, they scurry for cover. It's important because your 227 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 12: podcast is an important addition to the work that Clutter 228 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 12: and I are doing on behalf of mister Vaughan. I 229 00:15:54,160 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 12: believe that judges and appellate courts and elected state's attorneys 230 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 12: are mindful of the eyes of the public that are 231 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 12: on them, and as long as we can tell the 232 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 12: truth and tell it in a variety of forums, they 233 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 12: will respond. It'll be uncomfortable for them, they don't want 234 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 12: to deal with these truths, but they will respond. And 235 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 12: so those are the two primary hurdles. 236 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: Judstone is ready to tackle those hurdles. 237 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 12: I'm convinced that there are things in the newly discovered 238 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 12: area of evidence that cause great question as to the 239 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 12: quality of the trial that Chris had and the reliability 240 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 12: of the results, and we're going to go after that 241 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 12: with full force. 242 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: And it seems they will fully be met with opposing force. 243 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: On September fifth, twenty twenty one, the Chicago Sun Times 244 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: was first to break the news there was now effort 245 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: underway to free Chris Vaughn. In that article, the will 246 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: County States Attorney James Glasgow went on record saying Vaughn 247 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: would go free quote when hell freezes over unquote. It 248 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: is a comment in keeping with the ones Glasgow gave 249 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: at the time of the verdict. 250 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 11: What this guy did here was a diabolical atrocity. And 251 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 11: he's a heartless, soulless psychopath. 252 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 10: That's the bottom line. 253 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 11: That's what he is, without any compassion, without any empathy 254 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 11: for other human beings. There isn't a punishment that fits 255 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 11: this crime. You could lock him up for five hundred 256 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 11: lifetimes and it would not compensate the victims in this 257 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 11: case or the family members. 258 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: It is worth noting that a man known for delivering 259 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: such soundbites declined to speak to me about the Vaughan 260 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: case or the newly uncovered troubling issues surrounding the way 261 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: in which Vaughn's indictment was secured. In two thousand and seven, 262 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: here's Bill Clutter's reaction to the newspaper article. 263 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 10: State's Attorney Glasgow's comments in the Chicago sometimes indicate that 264 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 10: he's willing to defend this conviction despite whatever evidence we 265 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 10: present to him. And that's all the more reason why 266 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 10: we need criminal justice reform in Illinois that establishes a 267 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 10: statewide Conviction Integrity Unit. When new evidence comes to light 268 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 10: that shows that a person may be innocent, it should 269 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 10: be an objective review rather than have the Will County 270 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 10: States Attorney be the arbitrator of truth. That's just simply 271 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 10: not justice. 272 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: In that article, Glasgow also stated his opinion that the 273 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: new theory contradicts the crime scene evidence, insisting, quote the 274 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: angles are all wrong unquote. 275 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 10: Yes, and even seeing our crime scene reconstruction, how can 276 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 10: you pass judgment on what we've done without looking at it? 277 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 10: That did take me back a little bit. Means he's 278 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 10: going to dig in his heels, and you know that's unfortunate. 279 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 10: It's a characteristic of how they jumped to the conclusion 280 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 10: that he was guilty, and now they're going to maintain 281 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 10: that belief despite whatever evidence we show them. It happens 282 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 10: time after time after time in all of these cases 283 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 10: that I've been involved in, despite strong and convincing evidence 284 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 10: of actual innocence, the prosepcutors who got it wrong are 285 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 10: always the last to admit that they made a mistake. 286 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: That Chicago Sun Times article ended with James Glasgow declaring 287 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: the evidence against Vonn is quote overwhelming unquote and that 288 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: his office is quote ready for anything that occurs unquote 289 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: back to Bill clutter. 290 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 10: Well, the evidence wasn't overwhelming, and I think that time 291 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 10: will tell what happens in this case. 292 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: To that effort, Jedstone will also be overseeing a committee 293 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: of powerful legal experts and innocence activists that has formed 294 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: an effort to support revisiting Christopher Bond's conviction. 295 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 12: Innocence cases require great teamwork from various angles and various 296 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 12: professional viewpoints, and they are really team efforts. No one 297 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 12: can do these alone. I can't do them alone. Clutter 298 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 12: can't do them alone. Together, we're a pretty good team. 299 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 12: The stronger our team, the better mister Vaughan's chances of 300 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 12: obtaining justice. 301 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: What is the purpose of the committee and what do 302 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: you hope it will accomplish. 303 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 12: A variety of views from a variety of different lenses 304 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 12: will be able to analyze the evidence and come up 305 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 12: with a plan that will formulate the arguments I'll ultimately 306 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 12: present to the Prisoner Review Board or to a court 307 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 12: to gain a reversal of conviction and exoneration. My job 308 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 12: is to consolidate those various ideas into a winning idea 309 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 12: and take the various threads and form a tapestry, take 310 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 12: the various thoughts and form an argument. It's the creative 311 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 12: process of being the lawyer that I love. 312 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: The committee has been growing steadily at the time of 313 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: this episode's release. It includes founding board member of the 314 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: Innocence Project Jason Flohm, prominent defense attorneys Andrea Lyon, Keith Altman, 315 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: Kitty Lyle, and Mario Kasharo. A quick aside before becoming 316 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: an attorney, Mario Kasharo was wrongfully convicted of a presumed 317 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: murder and serve time a minard before being freed and exonerated. 318 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: There he crossed paths with Christopher Vaughn. The two played 319 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: chess several times. Also on board is Jason Jutts, a 320 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: civil attorney from Hawaii. 321 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 14: My name is Jason Jutts. I'm an attorney in Honolulu, Hawaii, 322 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 14: and I do complex civil litigation. What drew me to 323 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 14: this case initially was the podcast. I wasn't aware of 324 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 14: the case before listening to the first episode, and I 325 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 14: just found the case and the idea that Chris is 326 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 14: innocent very compelling, which drove me to start digging into 327 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 14: the trial transcripts and the pre trial transcripts, and the 328 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 14: more I looked at that, the more I became convinced that, 329 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 14: if nothing else, the trial was grossly mishandled. I subscribed 330 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 14: to the Blackstonian ratio, which is this idea or philosophy 331 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 14: that it's better to let ten guilty persons go free 332 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 14: than to punish one innocent person, and I think that 333 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 14: that is very prevalent here. I just wanted to reach 334 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 14: out to see what I could possibly do to help, 335 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 14: even though I'm so very far away, don't have the 336 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 14: legal background in criminal justice, let alone anything to do 337 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 14: with Illinois law, but I thought that some of my 338 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 14: skills could come to bear and is sitting in his 339 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 14: exoneration efforts. 340 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: Jets is now connected with Jed Stone to offer his 341 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: services also pro bono. 342 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 14: I think it's a great thing that the legal community 343 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 14: in Illinois is starting to get together and mount support 344 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 14: on Chris's behalf. I had a great opportunity to speak 345 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 14: with Jed. He's a very knowledgeable, experienced attorney in Illinois, 346 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 14: and I'm very appreciative that he's stepped up to take 347 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 14: the lead of the committee that's working on behalf of Chris. 348 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 14: One of the great things about this podcast is that 349 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 14: you've shed light on Chris's flight and gained attention for 350 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 14: him individually. But since this is sort of a national epidemic, 351 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 14: I think that it helps bring light to the bigger 352 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 14: issue here of how should we approach these cases moving forward? 353 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 14: How can we help eliminate some of the bas from 354 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 14: the bench and from the prosecutor side. I'm not even 355 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 14: talking about the confirmation bias of the jurors, or the 356 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 14: influence of the media, or the character assassination that Chris suffered, 357 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 14: but just looking at it through that legal lens, what 358 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 14: changes can we make moving forward to try to make 359 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 14: sure that innocent individuals aren't placed in in prison. And 360 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 14: it's really unfortunate when it happens in a situation where 361 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 14: you're talking about somebody's life. And I think that through 362 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 14: the discussion of Chris's case, one thing that's lost frequently 363 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 14: is that this started off as a death row case. 364 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 14: His life was literally on the line. 365 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: Bill Clutter's nonprofit Investigating Inno Sense, will continue to fight 366 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: for Chris Bond in addition to other wrongful convictions. 367 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 10: I want to encourage listeners to get involved. There's projects 368 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 10: in most every state, A Lisence project that helps the 369 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 10: wrongfully connected. If listeners are interested in volunteering or assisting 370 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 10: within the instigating innocence, go visit our website and let 371 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 10: us know how you're willing to help. I feel more 372 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 10: confident today that Christopher Vaughn will be free in the 373 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 10: near future and I'll be standing at the gates of 374 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 10: Pinkinbill Correctional Center with his parents and supporters welcoming him home, 375 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 10: and I can envision that day happening soon. 376 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 15: My hope is that these efforts do lead to either 377 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 15: the governor or a judge at some point ordering his 378 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 15: release and granting relief based on actual innocence. 379 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: Clutter will also be overseeing the second crime scene reconstruction, 380 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: which will challenge the state's theory in regards to the 381 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: ballistics beyond what was proven in the July crime scene 382 00:25:48,480 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: reconstruction with animation. As mentioned in the first episode of 383 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: this podcast, Gail Vaughan has a private Facebook page titled 384 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,959 Speaker 1: Christopher Vaughan is Innocent the last word in all caps. 385 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 5: When Chris went to prison, I tried to figure out 386 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 5: how to share this with all the families without making 387 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 5: multiple phone calls, so I created a Facebook group and 388 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 5: with family and very close friends. There were seventeen of 389 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 5: us altogether. Since this podcast started, we have been growing unbelievably. 390 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 5: It is turned into a support group. 391 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: At the time of this episode, Gail's Facebook group has 392 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: grown from seventeen people to more than eleven hundred members. 393 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 5: It's overwhelming. I mean, we have been kind of climbing 394 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 5: a hill, climbing a mountain, and it's been tough. But 395 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 5: now we have these people that are on Facebook and 396 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 5: they are actually showing support and positive They are actually 397 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 5: reading everything and coming up with their own conclusions and 398 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 5: then discussing the possibilities of what happened. I mean, it's 399 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 5: very refreshing to see everybody thinking, actually thinking, after reading 400 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 5: and hearing after so many years of not so many 401 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 5: positive results. 402 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: Gail finds it difficult to express her family's feelings regarding 403 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: the reaction to Chris's case. 404 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 5: This out pouring from my Facebook, from people, especially from 405 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 5: Jason Plumm and his generous assistance. It's overwhelming. And then 406 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 5: we have these fantastic lawyers that are stepping up and 407 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 5: helping us out with Chris. Chris can't believe it. He's 408 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 5: amazed that people are helping them, but now we Chris 409 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 5: has actually got the possibility of hope in his voice 410 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 5: and his eyes. Chris has got hope. His eyes have 411 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 5: changed to the look of resignation, of being here forever 412 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 5: because there's no way of getting out to Yes, there 413 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 5: is a spark of possibility and it's growing momentum. 414 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: And hoping to build upon that momentum. Gail has also 415 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: started a change dot org petition on behalf of her son. 416 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 5: I have written a petition so to change dot org 417 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 5: and it will be under the same heading as my 418 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 5: Facebook page or It's easy to remember Christopher Vaughan is 419 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 5: innocent and I am hoping to get a lot of 420 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 5: signatures that I can take to the Governor of Illinois 421 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 5: to ask for Chris's release or pardon. 422 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 1: Host of the Wrongful Conviction podcast and Innocence Active Jason 423 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: Flohm remains extremely optimistic about the possibility of executive clemency 424 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: for Vaughn, having himself brokened an impressive number of successful 425 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: ones throughout the country. 426 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 16: Clemency is such a powerful option, and it's such a 427 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 16: powerful power, right, I mean, for lack of a better 428 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 16: way of saying it, that is why governors and Presidents 429 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 16: in federal cases, of course, are entrusted and given the 430 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 16: power of clemency because they are supposed to be the 431 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 16: stopgap in these cases of overreach or wrongful conviction, or 432 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 16: over sentencing, or other mistakes that are made inevitably in 433 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 16: any criminal justicism in ours unfortunately, way too often, and 434 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 16: probably as much or more than ever before in history. 435 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 16: But the good news is that there's a governor in 436 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 16: Illinois who we know to be an intelligent, fair minded, 437 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 16: and decent man who has done phenomenal things to help 438 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 16: to tip away at the injustice system in that state, 439 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 16: which has a long and sordid history. 440 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: Jason Flohm is committed to working on that effort, but 441 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: has an additional ask too, an effort to prevent other 442 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: wrongful convictions. 443 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 16: I hope that people who are listening, when you serve 444 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 16: on a jury, you recognize that these people are human 445 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 16: as well. So if you get a jury duty notice, 446 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 16: don't throw it away. I'm talking to our listeners directly. 447 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 6: Now. 448 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 16: If you're busy, I know you're busy. Everybody's busy. It's 449 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 16: a huge imposition. It's annoying, it's a nuisance, but you 450 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,719 Speaker 16: know you have an opportunity to literally be the voice 451 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 16: that saves the life of the next Chris Vaughan. And 452 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 16: that's not hyperbole. It only takes one vote on a 453 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 16: jury of someone to go no. I heard murder in Illinois. 454 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 16: I understand now how this can actually go off the rails, 455 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 16: and I haven't been convinced beyond a reason doubt. So 456 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 16: I'm not going to go along with the other members 457 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 16: of the jury. I'm not going to do what I'm 458 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 16: being told to do by people who I now understand 459 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 16: are incentivized not to get justice, but to get wins. Right, 460 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 16: these people want wins. 461 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: And some of those wins come from manipulating emotions or 462 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: playing into preconceived notions. 463 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 16: And it's so hard for us. We don't want to 464 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 16: believe that anymore that we want to believe that babies 465 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 16: just die, or that sometimes people snap and sometimes it's 466 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 16: a mom and we don't want to believe that. But anyway, 467 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 16: I'll get off my soapbox now and hopefully, hopefully they'll 468 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 16: touch somebody's heart. 469 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: And if you do, find yourself moved to action. In 470 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: addition to signing Gail's petition and supporting the work of Innocence, 471 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: organizations in your community. Judstone offers an additional suggestion, We're. 472 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 12: Back to my cockroach. I think that listeners of this 473 00:31:54,600 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 12: show can talk about this wrongful conviction, talk about it 474 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 12: in their churches and synagogues and mosques, talk about it 475 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 12: in their workplaces, talk about it over dinner with their family, 476 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 12: discuss how it is that an innocent person can be 477 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 12: convicted of a horrible crime and then raise their voices 478 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 12: and say, not under my watch, it's not going to happen, Judge, 479 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 12: Prisoner Review Board Governor Pritsker, do justice. I'm reminded almost 480 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 12: every week, certainly right now in this conversation, that when 481 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 12: I was a boy sitting in synagogue with my father, 482 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 12: there was Hebrew writing on the wall, and I could 483 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 12: barely read English, but I certainly couldn't read Hebrew. So 484 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 12: I said to my dad what is that? And he 485 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 12: told me it's from one of the lesser prophets, a 486 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 12: fellow by the name of Micah, and it asks in Hebrew, 487 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 12: what is it that the Lord requires of you? And 488 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 12: the answer is really clear and struck me even as 489 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 12: a child with its clarity, What is it that the 490 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 12: Lord requires of you? Only to do justice, to love mercy, 491 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 12: and to walk humbly with God. And I thought, even 492 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 12: as a kid, sit, if that's all the God requires 493 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 12: of me, I should be able to do that. Do justice, 494 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 12: love mercy, and walk humbly with God. Well I've gotten 495 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 12: two out of the three. I've had a hard time 496 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 12: with this humble stuff. But doing justice and loving mercy, 497 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 12: that's all of our jobs in this world. And so 498 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 12: what can the listeners do. They can rise up as 499 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 12: a voice and say to the powers that be judges 500 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 12: in black robes, prosecutors in their offices, governors in their mansions, 501 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 12: do justice, love mercy. That's what the Lord requires of us. 502 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 12: And so that that's what our podcast listeners can do. 503 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 12: They can do justice and love mercy and raise their 504 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 12: voices in support of the wrongfully convicted. 505 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: And as a closing note, the Vaughan family wanted to 506 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: address you listeners of the podcast. Here's Gail. 507 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 5: I want to thank them, thank them for opening their hearts, 508 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 5: thank them for opening their mind, thank them for listening 509 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 5: and drawing their own conclusions, but most of all, supporting us, 510 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 5: supporting Chris, supporting our whole family. It's kind of an 511 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 5: odd feeling because we have never had that feeling before, 512 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 5: so thank you, Thank you so much. 513 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: And here's Pierre. 514 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 6: I just want to say that I'm overwhelmed and thankful 515 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 6: that people have come forward after all this time and 516 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 6: effort that Gail and I have put into this, people 517 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 6: on her website, and people like Jed Stone, Jason plom 518 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 6: doctor Phil Bill Clutter, and especially you Lauren for doing 519 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 6: podcasts and bringing this to everybody's attention. We just want 520 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 6: to say thank you from the bottom of our heart. 521 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 6: We're not public people, so it's very humbling for us, 522 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 6: and once again we're very very thankful to everyone. 523 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 5: Thank you. 524 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: As for me, I'm grateful to have played a part 525 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: in creating something that has inspired discourse to a level 526 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: where people have actually gotten involved, many even taking the 527 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: time to pour through the trial transcripts, crime scene reports, 528 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: and depositions before deliberating over the case online and in 529 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: chat groups. My team and I truly appreciate your time 530 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: and your ear. It's also our sincere hope that we 531 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: will soon be dropping enough date into this feed. As 532 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: for Christopher Vaughan, he's asked that I share this statement 533 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: with you. Thank you so very much for taking the 534 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: time to listen to my story. I'm hoping that in 535 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: listening to the details of my case, you will pause 536 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: to consider the sobering question of innocence and guilt. I 537 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: am speaking in relation to the broader perspective, as this 538 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: is and should be about more than my one case alone. 539 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: I hope that you will consider not only the possibility, 540 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: but the reality of our legal system convicting an innocent person. 541 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: It will only be through your awareness and effort serving 542 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: as the final check and balance, that those of us 543 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted will have any hope at freedom. Thank you. 544 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 8: And the crimead You Feel the Ground? 545 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 13: Are You. 546 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: Murder in Illinois? Is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers 547 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: are Lauren Braid Pacheco and Taylor Chackoine. Written by Lauren 548 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: Brad Pacheco and Matthew Riddle, Story editing by Matthew Riddle, 549 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chaqoine. 550 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: Featuring music by Cicada Rhythm with new compositions engineered and 551 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: mixed by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chackoine. Archived news reports 552 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: provided by w g. 553 00:37:53,120 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 8: N You the word by page, Feel. 554 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 17: The Ground, Holding Holding Okay, Buying out. 555 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 4: O Caage. 556 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 8: You feel the ground holding holding for you. 557 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 4: You mean. 558 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, 559 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories that matter 560 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: to you.