1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:01,520 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Saturday Podcast. Do you like the way 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: I say Saturday? Everyone that felt very PBS didn't it? 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: In the old days, PBS had some great programming. Well, 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: we're honored that if you're listening on Saturday. Some folks 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: listen to Saturday Podcast other times, but that you've chosen 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: spend time with us when you could have done a 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: million other things, and you may be doing some other things, 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: like I think the number one activity based on people 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: emailing me is cleaning out the garage, which is my 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: idea of a good Saturday as well, is I take 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: everything out of the garage, wipe it all down, repaint 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: areas that are smudged or messed up, and then I 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: label everything properly and then I bring everything back in 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: and throw away or give away anything. Throw away the 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: trash and give away anything that's usable for somebody else. 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: So anyway, whatever you're doing, we're honored you chose to 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: join us on our podcast. The Little Podcast that Could 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: is what we've become. And it's because you listen consistently 20 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: and because you tell one person makes a world of difference. 21 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: That's how it's grown. And we appreciate it. One of 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: our heroes, Thomas Soul, wrote a book called Basic Economics, 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: and it's a wonderful, wonderful book. It if you never 24 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: studied economics, if you never went to school, you will. 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: It is a conversational piece that you will love, You 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: will absolutely love, and you will hear me talking while 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: you're reading it. But just understand, you're not hearing my 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: influence on Thomas Soul. You're hearing the original influence I had, 29 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: which is Thomas Soul's many writings coming through me. He 30 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: I covered his song, he didn't cover mine. This book 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: is clear accessible, uh, and you're gonna love it. You're 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: just you're just gonna love it. Okay, So years ago 33 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: he sat down to go over some of the basic 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: principles of the book. Not with me, sadly, he's hard, hard, 35 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 2: hard to get on an interview now, but this was 36 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: a conversation he had years ago, and so last week. Yeah, anyway, 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: So yeah, just enjoy, enjoy. 38 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 3: An economist, syndicated columnist, and best selling author, Thomas Sole 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 3: is a fellow at the Hoover Institution. 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 4: Over the course of his. 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: Long and storied career, doctor Soul has taught Economics and institutions, 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 3: including Cornell Amherst and UCLA. Doctor Soul's latest book, a 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 3: revised and updated version of his classic volume, Basic Economics. 44 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: Here is the first edition of Basic Economics, and here 45 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: is the new edition. 46 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 4: Showing that Tom Soll. 47 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 3: Never rests to quote from Basic Economics through its various editions, 48 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 3: the fundamental idea behind Basic ECAs remains the same. Learning 49 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 3: economics should be as uncomplicated as it is informative. 50 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 5: Close quote. 51 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: Welcome Tom, No charts, no equations, all words, plain English, 52 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 3: no graphs. 53 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 5: No graphs. 54 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: All right, Well, would you help me to uncomplicate a 55 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: few things today? 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 5: All right? All right? 57 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 4: Segment one, the present crisis. 58 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 5: Now. 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 3: I posted notices several places that I'd be interviewing you, 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: and asked folks for questions, and got overwhelmed with questions. 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: I can only offer a few. But here are a 62 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: sum from Ken Sweeney of Ricochet. This is the basic 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: of the basics. How is wealth created? And why does 64 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 3: the United States have the highest per capita GDP of 65 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 3: any major country? 66 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 5: Wow? How many? How many years do we do? I 67 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 5: have question? 68 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 4: It's television. You've got about ninety seconds at the most. 69 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 5: Oh, I guess. 70 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 6: Wealth is great created when the circumstances as such that 71 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 6: people who know how to create it are free to 72 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 6: do so. One of the things that pains me current 73 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 6: in the current crisis is people saying that Congress really 74 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 6: needs to do something to make the economy recover. No, 75 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 6: they need to let the economy recover. That the economy 76 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 6: did not get to be the biggest in the world 77 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 6: by politicians doing things. All the millions of other people 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 6: whose names we don't even know. Those are the people 79 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 6: who made it the biggest economy of the world. And 80 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 6: if politicians will get out of their way, we can 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 6: and let the economy recover. 82 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 5: It can do that. 83 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 3: Tom, we've been talking about the crisis. Let's take a 84 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: step back nineteen eighty three until two thousand and eight. 85 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: The American economy experience is a quarter of a century 86 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: of nearly uninterrupted economic growth. 87 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 4: Then, beginning in the autumn of two thousand and eight, trouble. 88 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 6: What went wrong well actually started much earlier, and I 89 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 6: think the first it was the housing boom, followed by 90 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 6: the housing bus which occurred in two thousand and six, 91 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 6: and then so the reverberations of that that there were 92 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 6: people out there who had trillions of dollars invested in 93 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 6: securities based upon mortgages, and when people stopped paying their mortgages, 94 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 6: the value of securities vanished into thin air. 95 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: So you do not argue that this was a financial 96 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 3: crisis that spilled over into the real economy. You argue 97 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: that it was a problem in the real economy, particularly 98 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 3: the housing market. Yes, that started the problem in the 99 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: financial sector. 100 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 6: Oh, absolutely, If people that kept paying their mortgages, the 101 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 6: securities would have been good and we would have all 102 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 6: lived happily ever after. Now, now, the problem is that 103 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 6: the politicians made the mortgages more risky by changing the rules. 104 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 6: In other words, at one time, mortgages were considered the 105 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 6: safest investment. This is for the widows and offense who 106 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 6: need their money coming in regularly, and you put it 107 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 6: into real estate. But the politicians decided that we must 108 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 6: have more home ownership and more affordable housing, and so 109 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 6: they began to prescribe rules. You had to lend money 110 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 6: to people you wouldn't have lent to before. And of 111 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 6: course there was a reason they weren't lending to them before, 112 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 6: and we discovered the hard way. 113 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 5: What that reason was. That they weren't likely to be 114 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 5: able to them to pay them back. 115 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: Very profound question here, I think, anyway. Did what happened 116 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: indicate the housing market problem? Did that indicate that markets, 117 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: some markets wonderful as they are wonderful, as you demonstrate 118 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: over and over again in basic economics, that free markets are, 119 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 3: that they sometimes experience troubles calamities, even that the markets 120 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: are are imperfect because they're rooted in human experience and 121 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 3: we live in a fallen world. Or did it demonstrate 122 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: that the government messed things up? 123 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 6: The government messed them up, after all, the first century, 124 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 6: you never had this kind of christ in the real 125 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 6: estate market for a centuries. People who had been who 126 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 6: made it, did their life's work lending money for mortgages, 127 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 6: did that without the politician's interfering. Once the politicians started meddling, 128 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 6: the results with what you could have. 129 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 3: Predicted is what was predicted in that all right response 130 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 3: to the crisis. The federal reserve floods the financial markets 131 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: with liquidity, while first the Bush administration and then the 132 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 3: Obama administration enact stimulus and bailout packages that now amount to, 133 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: as best I can make it out, something like three 134 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: point six trillion dollars correct responses to to the crisis. 135 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 4: Did the government do the right thing? 136 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 5: No? 137 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 6: Those are easy questions, all right, Uh one of the 138 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 6: painful things. I mean, you can call anything anything, you 139 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 6: want to call it. You can call it a stimulus. 140 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 6: All the data indicated didn't stimulate anything except boondoggles across 141 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 6: the country as politicians handed out money to all the 142 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 6: specially they are interested in. 143 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 5: Uh uh pleasing. Uh. 144 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 6: But for example, when when they dumped all this money 145 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 6: in the banks, the idea was the banks would then 146 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,119 Speaker 6: pass that money on and more lending. 147 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 5: Lending went down. 148 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 6: Uh, they dumped all this money into the businesses. The 149 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 6: businesses reduced their investment. All kinds of money is piling up. 150 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 6: There's record amounts of money piling up. 151 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: What about GM, surely that's the one success story. Workers 152 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: are still employed. GM is now a competitive company again. 153 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 3: They're paying back billions to the American taxpayer. 154 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 6: Oh, this is this is the famous one where we 155 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 6: we we guaranteed them and it didn't cost the taxpayer 156 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 6: as it died. 157 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 5: Right, Yes, yes, Uh, it's like going. 158 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 6: To Las Vegas you know and saying, uh, I put 159 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 6: my quarter in the machine and out came, all came 160 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 6: one hundred dollars. Yes, Now put another quarter and see 161 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 6: if you get another hundred and put a million dollars 162 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 6: in there, and see if you get a million dollars back. 163 00:08:58,640 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 5: Uh. 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 7: Uh. 165 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 6: We had the same thing with the savings and loan crisis, 166 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 6: and a couple of decades ago they said, you know, 167 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 6: we're back in the savings and loan industry. We're guaranteeing it. 168 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 6: But has not cost the taxpayers anything. Well, it's not 169 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 6: until it fails, and then it costs the taxpayers. All right, 170 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 6: Segment two. What is to be done now? 171 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 3: FED Chairman Ben Bernanke announced this pass autumn that the 172 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 3: Federal Reserve would engage in a new round of quote 173 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 3: I'm using his term, quantitative easing, the so called q E. 174 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 5: Two. 175 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 4: The FED will purchase top white. This is serious, This 176 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 4: is serious. 177 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 3: The Fed will purchase some six hundred billion of treasury 178 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: instruments to keep interest rates low and spur economic growth. 179 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 4: That's Ben Bernanke. 180 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: On the other hand, we have our colleagues at the 181 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: Hoover Institution, John Taylor, Mike Boskin, and John Cogan signing 182 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 3: an open letter to Ben Bernanke which read in part quote. 183 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,479 Speaker 3: We believe the large scale asset purchase plan should be discontinued. 184 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: The planned asset purchases risk currency debasement and inflation, and 185 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 3: we do not think they will achieve the FED subjective 186 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: of promoting employment. 187 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 4: Close quote whose side is Tom sol On? 188 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 6: Oh, I'm on the side of people say that shouldn't 189 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 6: have done it? 190 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 5: Easy? 191 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 4: Another easy one? 192 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. Yes. 193 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 6: That used to be a phrase. It was called monetizing 194 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 6: the debt. It means that that the Treasury Department has 195 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 6: definitive spending, so they put out all these bonds that 196 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 6: they're selling, and if the public won't buy them, the 197 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 6: Federal Reserve will buy them, because the Federal Reserve can 198 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 6: legally print its own money, so it's no problem for 199 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 6: this Federal Reserved to buy them. It's just that that's 200 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 6: what that amounts to is one inflation and two and 201 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 6: it amounts to a hidden tax which will not be 202 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 6: confined to the rich as we as they call it. 203 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 6: I mean, in other words, if you've got x thousands 204 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 6: of dollars in your bank account and the Federal Reserve 205 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 6: starts printing more money, it is simply stealing the value 206 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 6: of the money that you've put aside, and so that's 207 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 6: the same thing as a tax, only it's an inflation tax. 208 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 3: But Tom, this is you're answering these questions with the 209 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 3: greatest disease in and you even find, I can tell 210 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: from your face, you find some of the questions amusing. 211 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 3: So a layman like me, like our viewers, says well, well, well, 212 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: now wait a minute, Doctor Soul is an eminent figure. 213 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 3: And I even had in these emails somebody commenting on 214 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: your lovely baritone voice. You're a sterling. You're a sterling 215 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 3: figure in all kinds of ways. But Ben Bernanke is 216 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 3: a Princeton he oh, in other words, what is he thinking? 217 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 3: What is the other what? What does Ben Bernanke think 218 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 3: he's doing? It can't be that easy, can it to say, oh, no, 219 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 3: that's a mistake. 220 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 6: Well, you know, Ben bur Nanke's chairman of the Federal 221 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 6: Reserve System. He's no longer a professor at Princeton. 222 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 5: Well, he's. 223 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 4: Emeritath or right, right, right, he's taking a leave of absence. 224 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 6: Right, yes, yes, And so we have a whole different 225 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 6: set of incentives and constraints on him. One of the 226 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 6: most painful things for me was reading the bio author F. 227 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 6: Burns based on his experience when he was chairman of 228 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 6: the Federal Reserve System in the seventies. 229 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 4: This would be sixty seventies. H. Richard Nixon. 230 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 6: Yes, and he expelled out that, you know, when you're 231 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 6: in the Federal Reserve System, you're not a free agent. 232 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 6: It's not like you're conducting a seminar at Columbia and 233 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 6: can just simply say and do whatever you want to do. 234 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 5: You're operating within very narrow limits. 235 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 6: The Federal Reserve is quote independent unquote, but Congress can 236 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 6: change the amount of that independence anytime they take a notion. 237 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 6: And so even if you're following policies at a good policy, 238 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 6: you've got to watch your back because Congress can step 239 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 6: in at any time and stop you. And so it's 240 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 6: a very tense kind of situation. 241 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 5: All right. 242 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal, December eighth, Quote in accepting the deal 243 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 3: to cut payroll and business taxes and extend all of 244 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 3: the Bush air at tax rates through twenty twelve. As 245 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: you and I speak, this hasn't been enacted in the Congress, 246 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: but we're talking about the deal that President Obama cut 247 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: with Republicans to continue the quotation mister Obama has implicitly 248 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 3: admitted that his economic strategy has flopped. He is acknowledging 249 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 3: that tax rates matter to growth, that treating business like 250 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 3: robber barons has hurt investment in hiring, and that tax 251 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 3: cuts are superior to spending as stimulus. Close quote you 252 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: buy every word of that. 253 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 6: Oh yes, okay, well, but what is painful to me 254 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 6: really looking back at this argument is not a new argument. 255 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 6: This argument was made in the nineteen twenties. People were 256 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 6: saying the same thing on both sides. They're saying right now. 257 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 6: The difference is that seventy five years have elapsed, and 258 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 6: there have been four administrations of both parties that have 259 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 6: reduced high tax income tax rates. Every single time, name 260 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 6: them the Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan, and George W. 261 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 5: Bush. 262 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 6: Right, every single time, the reduction of the tax rates 263 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 6: has led to an increase in tax revenue. So I 264 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 6: hear people on television saying, how the government can't afford 265 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 6: to give to give this tax cuts to the rich, 266 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 6: you know, not giving anything to anybody. 267 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 5: Right, here's a question. 268 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 3: But Ricochet contributor Steve Mannasek quote, it's as close to 269 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 3: dogmas there is among conservatives that cutting taxes, particularly marginal rates, 270 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: spurs economic growth. But Bill Clinton raised taxes, including marginal rates, 271 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: and the economy boomed. Do tax rates really matter to 272 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 3: economic growth? And if they do, how do you explain 273 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: the Clinton expansion. 274 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 6: I haven't looked at the Clinton expansion, but I know 275 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 6: that the Clinton quote surplus with surplus taxes are uh 276 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 6: that those laws are passed in Congress. All spending and 277 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 6: taxing bills originateing the House of Representatives, and when the 278 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 6: House of Representatives is in the hands of the opposite party, 279 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 6: I don't know how any president can take any credit 280 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 6: for whether there's a surplus or not. 281 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 4: Okay, there's Milton. 282 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: Milton Friedman defined a surpluses when the money comes in 283 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 3: so fast that even Congress can't spend it. That's true. 284 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 3: Segment three healthcare. Let me give you a quotation and 285 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: a fact. The quotation comes from you in basic economics. 286 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 5: Quote. 287 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 3: A long standing staple of political rhetoric has been the 288 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: attempt to keep the prices of medical care reasonable or affordable. 289 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: Yet the amount of resources required to supply the things 290 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: we want are wholly independent of what we're willing to pay. 291 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 3: It is completely unreasonable to expect reasonable prices. 292 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 5: That's the quotation. 293 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 4: Here's the fact. 294 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: The United States devotes seventeen percent of its GDP to healthcare. 295 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: The next country down in that is Switzerland at about 296 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 3: eleven percent of its GDP. So we devote something like 297 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: fifty percent more than the next country down. Now, surely 298 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: it's not unreasonable to suggest that we're just spending too much. 299 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 6: The question is when people are spending their own money. 300 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 6: I don't know how third party should say it's too much. Ironically, 301 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 6: Ram Emmanuel's brother who's a doctor, has on board for 302 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 6: this whole Obamacare thing. But really he reveals why Americans 303 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 6: spend more. Americans don't. When they go to a hospital, 304 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 6: they are in private or semi private room. Is more 305 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 6: often than in countries on government healthcare. And so instead 306 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 6: of being an award, you're in your own private or 307 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 6: semi private room. It costs more. 308 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 5: Uh. 309 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 6: You know, American doctors are more readily available. Uh, there 310 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 6: is less waiting time. 311 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: Uh. 312 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 6: Some people prefer to pay in money and other in 313 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 6: waiting time. Now, when you have a painful disease and 314 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 6: the government tells you it's this, there's a six month 315 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 6: waiting list. That you're you're paying in a different way. 316 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 6: It doesn't show up in the statistics, but you may 317 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,479 Speaker 6: you may not even live the six months, depending. 318 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 5: On what you have. 319 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 4: So we pay seven, we pay more and get more. 320 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 5: That's it. 321 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 3: That's that's, that's it, that's all there is to it. 322 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 3: That's you don't want to say. But at the same time, 323 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: a system is terribly inefficient in various ways. 324 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 6: You know, it's not inefficient for people to buy what 325 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 6: they want. 326 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 4: More complicated than that, you know it. 327 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 6: What's inefficient it is having third parties decided what you 328 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 6: need and don't need, as for example in Sweden, where 329 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 6: if they and it's not like an insurance company saying 330 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 6: they won't pay for it. In Sweden, if they say 331 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 6: that you don't need this, you can't pay for it 332 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 6: with your own money because they control the whole system. 333 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 6: And so your choice at that point is to leave Sweden, 334 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 6: which if you're very sick, maybe a little hard to do, 335 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 6: or to have what you need smuggled. 336 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 3: Into you right tom In one of the last conversations 337 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 3: I had with our friend Milton Friedman, I recall his 338 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 3: saying he was musing about the future of healthcare, which 339 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 3: as you know, interested him for five. In fact, there 340 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 3: are no new ideas, just proposals by Milton Friedman that 341 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: haven't gotten around to being enacted yet. I sometimes feel, 342 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 3: but Milton said, the situation we have in this country is. 343 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 4: Untended all over the longer term. 344 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 3: And he said, we're broadly speaking, about fifty percent of 345 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 3: American healthcare is private, subject to the usual incentives of 346 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 3: the private market, but about fifty percent with Medicare, Medicaid 347 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 3: and so forth, about fifty percent is effectively socialized, run 348 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: through the government in one way or another. And Milton said, 349 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: this is untenable. We will probably either go to a 350 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 3: much more socialized system in which we will at least 351 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 3: have the virtue of controlling prices. Quality may deteriorate, but 352 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 3: prices might be controlled. Or we'll go in the other 353 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 3: direction and push more of healthcare into the market, which 354 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 3: would control prices and improve quality. 355 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 4: Does that make sense to you that analysis. Yeah, it's 356 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 4: about fifty fifty, but it's untenable that we're. 357 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 5: I don't know why it's untenable. It's one of a 358 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 5: few times. 359 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: I'm sure if he were here, he'd, of course he'd 360 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: say I'd misstated it or. 361 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, but uh, when people want something and 362 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 6: you know when I when when I, when I was 363 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 6: in the hospital, lays I had a private no doubt 364 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 6: that costs more than if I were an award right, 365 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 6: particularly as in Britain, you know where you can be 366 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 6: ignored by the nurses. 367 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 5: You know, women in Britain. 368 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 6: One of the scandals is that they are having their 369 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 6: babies in the hospitals. 370 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 5: But not in the delivery room. 371 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 6: I mean they're having their babies in the hallway and 372 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 6: the elevators because they're calling for the nurse and the 373 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 6: nurse will get around to it when she feels like it, 374 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 6: and the baby is. 375 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 5: Not gonna wait. 376 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: Okay, let me ask you then, a question about practical politics. 377 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: One of the points you make in basic economics is 378 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 3: that the government politicians face incentives the way ordinary actors 379 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 3: in the free markets face incentives. 380 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 4: So here's a question. 381 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 3: It seems to me, as a layman watching things, that 382 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 3: the people who are in favor of pushing more healthcare 383 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 3: into the free market have been on the defensive for 384 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 3: the last couple of years since President Obama was elected. 385 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 3: Now we've had a change in the House of her 386 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 3: election and Republicans have come in and they are saying 387 00:19:58,640 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 3: we're going to fight this thing. 388 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 4: Every step of. 389 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 3: The way they do, it still feels defensive to me. 390 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: We're going to hold up the money here, We're going 391 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: to file a court challenge there, and it's a kind 392 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 3: of a piecemeal attack. 393 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 4: How how can the terms of. 394 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: The debate be changed, if indeed they can, so that 395 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 3: the the the argument for the market becomes dominant and 396 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: unself conscious and and and. 397 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 4: Aggressive in a certain sense. 398 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 5: Well, that would require articulate Republicans, all. 399 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 4: Right, down to the next question. No, well we have. 400 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 3: Are you encouraged when you look at the current Eric Canter, 401 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 3: these new people who've emerged in. 402 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 6: The I must say I saw I saw Chris Christy, 403 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 6: governor of New Jersey. For the first time, I thought, 404 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 6: my gosh, an articulate Republican. When was the last time 405 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 6: I saw. 406 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 4: One of those articulate and also willing to fight? 407 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, all right? 408 00:20:54,040 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 3: Segment four Trade lots of questions about trade, China, the 409 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 3: rest of the world. Here's from a Ricochet member who 410 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 3: calls herself Midget faded rattlesnake. If you read her post, 411 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 3: she's highly intelligent and very amusing. 412 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 4: I don't know where the name comes from. But here's 413 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 4: the question. 414 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 3: How much should people really worry about the balance of trade? 415 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 5: Somewhat less than you worry about being struck by lightning? 416 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 3: Okay, here's the statistic I heard just the other day. 417 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 3: Here's how many cars Korea sells in the United States 418 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 3: every year, five hundred thousand. Here's how many cars we 419 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 3: sell in Korea every year, five thousand. Why shouldn't we 420 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 3: be worried about that in balance? 421 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 6: I'm not sure why we should. Obviously, if the Americans want, 422 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 6: were Americans forced at gunpoint to buy these cars from Korea? 423 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 4: Clearly not? 424 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 6: No, no, no, I don't see why third parties should 425 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 6: concern themselves about it. 426 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: Okay, you've done it again. 427 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: You've batted away the question so easily that it leaves 428 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: me wondering what the argument is on the other side. 429 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 3: Why do some people why do some people worry about 430 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 3: the trade balance? 431 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 5: Then? 432 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 6: Oh, because the argument that they're making is that this 433 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 6: is sending American jobs abroad. Now, unfortunately, this argument was 434 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 6: made some years ago. In nineteen thirty, a thousand economists 435 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 6: took out full paid page ads across the country saying 436 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 6: do not put up international trade restrictions. It will not 437 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 6: increase employment. It will just set off our new round 438 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 6: of retaliation. It was one of those wonderful things in 439 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 6: media like. It was a bipartisan effort. The Democratic Congress 440 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 6: went to pass the Smoothhawlly Terriffs, and the Republican presidents 441 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 6: signed it into law, and it was one of the 442 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 6: biggest disasters in the history of the country. 443 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 5: At the time. Is this law? 444 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 6: You know, people think that the reason for the high 445 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 6: unemployment in thirties was because of the stock market Christ. 446 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 6: After the Stock Market Christ, unemployment peaked at nine percent 447 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 6: for one month and started down. It was down to 448 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 6: six point three percent before the federal government into THEED. 449 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 6: It was only after the federal government into THEED that 450 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 6: the downward movement reversed itself and shot all up or 451 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 6: in a few years to twenty five percent. So the 452 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 6: people who are out there just dying for the government 453 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 6: to come in with their solution, I don't know if 454 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 6: they have studied history or not. 455 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: What's the correct way here? I'm interested in the way 456 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 3: to think about the problem China. There are constant predictions 457 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: that soon, maybe within a decade or so, the Chinese 458 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 3: economy will become as big as ours. So bigger economy 459 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: than ours, that sounds in some way something about which 460 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 3: we ought to be nervous. On the other hand, there 461 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: are fourteen times as many Chinese as Americans, so when 462 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 3: their economy becomes as big as ours, it only means 463 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 3: that they're per capita GDP will be one fourteenth that 464 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: of ours. 465 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 4: So should we be worried about what the. 466 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,479 Speaker 6: China should be worried as to why the economy has 467 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 6: not gotten is so far behind that of the United States? 468 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 5: All right, although I must. 469 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 6: Say their economy is enormously better than it was in 470 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 6: the days of above mau right, it is so as 471 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 6: a result of putting in more market, allowing more freedom 472 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 6: in the market. Just as in the past couple of years, 473 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 6: we're trying to reduce the freedom of the war. 474 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 3: Well, okay, so let me take the United States out 475 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 3: of it for a second. At the end of the 476 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 3: Cold War, Russia, as we were allowed to call it 477 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 3: once again, the Soviet Union ceased to exist. Russia embraced 478 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 3: democracy pretty rigorously under Boris Yelson true election to the 479 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 3: Duma and so forth, and suffered an economic collapse from 480 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 3: which they have never recovered. China embraces the markets to 481 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 3: a limited extent, but still a very extensive extent, but 482 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: refuses to touch democracy, refuses to permit political freedoms, and 483 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 3: experiences this period of two decades now of economic growth 484 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 3: unparalleled really for a country of that science, anywhere at 485 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 3: any point in human industry. So what does that tell 486 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 3: us about the connection between democracy and economic growth. We 487 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 3: Americans like to talk about democratic capitalism as though the 488 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 3: two are somehow intertwined. 489 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 4: Are they not? 490 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 6: Well, China has proven that they're not. Inevitably so there 491 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 6: are a lot of things that you have to have 492 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 6: to make make an economy work. First of all, you 493 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 6: have to allow the people to allow the market to work. 494 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 6: And so yet in Russia, when the new capitalists was 495 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 6: simply the old communists who had taken over the industries, 496 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 6: you didn't have capitalism in the real sense of the word. 497 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 6: You had what some would called crony capitalism. And you 498 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 6: had people who disappear off the streets when they, you know, 499 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 6: get in the way of what the government. 500 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 5: Wants to do. So it's really. 501 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 6: I think subrows of fascism, fascism being different from socialism 502 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 6: and that the private ownership is there, but the government 503 00:25:58,680 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 6: tells people what to do. 504 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 4: And what about China? 505 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: Do you believe that they can continue to sustain high 506 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 3: economic growth rates without some semblance of democracy, without beginning 507 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 3: to open up political freedoms? 508 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 5: Can they go? 509 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 6: I think they are doing some of that, and particularly 510 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 6: as you get larger and larger numbers of people who 511 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 6: are successful in the private marketplace and who then begin 512 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 6: to have influence, and as the old guard dies out, 513 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 6: I think, but there'll be a very slow process. I 514 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 6: wouldn't holdly stop watch on it all. Right from China 515 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 6: to Europe. 516 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 3: Here in the United States, nobody would start talking about 517 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: the threat to the dollar as a currency if Texas 518 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 3: has experiences a high growth rate and Michigan experience is 519 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 3: high unemployment and manufacturing decline, and nobody talks. 520 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 4: About that as a threat. 521 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 3: But in Europe we see that the troubles in Greece 522 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 3: and Ireland and now Spain and Portugal are being talked 523 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 3: about as a threat to the euro Why. 524 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 6: Because they're trying to create something that that that a 525 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 6: country would would would create in a situation where you 526 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 6: have sovereign states and so you can't have a common 527 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 6: currency and then have each government go off on its 528 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 6: own little tangent, because they will end up in situations 529 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 6: where that common currency is threatened because of what someone 530 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 6: did in Greece or Spain. 531 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 4: So do you consider the Euro untenable over the longer term? 532 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 6: I don't know, But because people, people can always change 533 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 6: their policies, And personally, I never thought it was such 534 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 6: a great idea. 535 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 4: What would you have done instead? 536 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 5: Just permit? But what they've done for centuries? All right? 537 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 5: Have each you know? That's it? All right? 538 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 4: Segment five theory. 539 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 3: Lots of questioners want to know whether you share Congressman 540 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 3: Ron Paul's skepticism of the FED. And now I'm going 541 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 3: to quote you. This isn't in basic economics but a 542 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 3: recent column. Quote, for most of the history of this country, 543 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 3: there was no federal reserve system. 544 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 4: There you go, that dirty trick of bringing in history. 545 00:27:59,280 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 5: Ah. 546 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: Yes, there was no federal reserve system, which was established 547 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 3: in nineteen fourteen to prevent bank failures. But bank failures 548 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 3: in the nineteen thirties exceeded anything ever seen before the 549 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 3: FED was established. Close quote, if you could, if we 550 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: could make you dictator, would you abolish the FED? 551 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 6: Yes, you would, yes, I mean for the reasons I 552 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 6: just gave the history, there's no you know, the Fed 553 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 6: represented wonderful hopes, but we've had so many programs that 554 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 6: represented wonderful hopes that ended in disaster. I down doubt 555 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 6: that someone who was sufficiently scholarly could come up with 556 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 6: examples of whether Federal Reserve made things better. But the 557 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 6: question is overall what was supposed to It was supposed 558 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 6: to do not only prevent bank failures, it was supposed 559 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 6: to prevent huge changes in the money supply in partaiolo 560 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 6: great deflations. The greatest deflation in American history occurred under 561 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 6: the Federal Reserve system. 562 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 5: You know, there was a crisis in nineteen oh seven. 563 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 6: JP Morgan, the original JP WOA, call the other banks 564 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 6: into the room, supposedly locked the doors and said we've 565 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 6: got to do something. We're gonna all collapse. And they 566 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 6: did something and they didn't all collapse. But but thee 567 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 6: the progressors were were shocked that one man could come 568 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 6: in and take command of the situation, and especially someone 569 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 6: who wasn't even in the government. 570 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 4: So so what would you do. 571 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 3: You'd move us back to the gold standard, or you'd 572 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: like to issue their own currencies the way they did 573 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 3: up through the Civil War. 574 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 4: Say you could, I could, I could. 575 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 6: Well, they weren't doing any of those things as the 576 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 6: time the Federal Reserve was created, we were on the 577 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 6: gold standard, though, But whether we're on or off the 578 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 6: gold standard, there's that's another whole set of arguments. There's 579 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 6: no evidence that I can see that over this vast 580 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 6: period of time that the Federal Reserve has existed, that 581 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 6: things on the whole have been better. The great post 582 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 6: World War two are inflation was fed by the by 583 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 6: the Federal Reserve doing exactly what they're planning to do now, 584 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 6: namely buying up the bonds issued by the Treasury. 585 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: Ah, but don't you have I have to say, I 586 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: wasn't expecting your answer to run in this direction, So 587 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 3: I don't have questions follow up questions prepared, or you 588 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 3: may actually have I may actually have to think here 589 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 3: in real time. But don't we have the example of 590 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 3: that period from eighty three through a couple of years ago, 591 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 3: that twenty five years of economic expansion, we had only 592 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 3: two downturns. They were both very shallow and very brief. 593 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 3: And what you had was Paul Volker, who Carter appointed, 594 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: but Reagan gave the freedom actually to wring inflation out 595 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: of the currency. He did that by the mid eighties, 596 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: the economy takes off. Alan Greenspan does a reasonably good job, 597 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: and then at the end there's too much money in 598 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: the but maybe five years of getting it wrong. 599 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 6: So what Volka did was undoue to the hob that 600 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 6: previous federal reserves had done, including Arthur Burns. 601 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, unfortunately, who was my teacher and my much admired right, right. 602 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: So, but what would you replace it with? How would 603 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 3: the currency? Who would how would the we? 604 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 5: We would replace it? 605 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 6: We got replace it with what existed when it was created, 606 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 6: which was the gold gold standard. 607 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 5: Well maybe the gold standard, but maybe not. 608 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 6: But but there's no evidence that these what would you 609 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 6: replace it? Things always bother me. You know, when someone 610 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 6: removes the cancer, what do you replace it with? 611 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, all right, closing a few questions here 612 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 3: that didn't really seem to fit in it, but they 613 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 3: just but they struck me as good. Questions from JJM 614 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 3: director on Twitter. Some claim the bailouts worked. We have 615 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: the banks recovering now, you mean banks have never recovered before? 616 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 3: All right, thank you very much, Michael. Lots of questions 617 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: on Kanesianism, Michael Lobite of Ricochet. What explains the allure 618 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 3: of Kynesian economics? Excuse me, we've already said that this 619 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 3: effort to stimulate the economy Obama's first two years, that 620 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 3: was essentially Kynesianism. So just to tie that in to 621 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: what we've discussed earlier, what explains the allure of Insian 622 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: economics despite its lackluster empirical record? Or we hear we 623 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 3: have a fellow called Jack Raya of our Facebook page. 624 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 3: Does the Kanesian school have any credibility left close? 625 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 4: Quote? 626 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 6: Well, there are ideas of Canes that that still exists. 627 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 6: Milton Freeman that as much as he said, there's in 628 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 6: a sense we're all Kynesians now and in another sense 629 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 6: nobody's a Kndian, meaning that no one buys the whole 630 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 6: Kynesian package anymore. But there are particular insights that and 631 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 6: ways of thinking of analyzing that came out of Canes 632 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 6: that people of different schools have thought will use when 633 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 6: they feel like it. 634 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 3: So Canes was Knes provided us with technical with tools, yes, 635 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 3: rather than a prescription he read provided US with both. 636 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 6: It's just that the prescriptions haven't turned out as well 637 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 6: as the tools. 638 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 4: All right, we began the program. 639 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 3: I began the program by asking why does the United 640 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 3: States have the highest GDP per capita of any major country? 641 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 3: And what I'd like to ask final question basic economics. 642 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 3: You've said that some of the debates taking place today 643 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 3: are frustrating to you because they took place in the 644 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: twenties and the thirties, and you just feel as though 645 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 3: the country isn't making progress? Is there within basic economics? 646 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 3: Has the discipline made enough progress? And will the political 647 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 3: realm respond to progress in the discipline enough that? And 648 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 3: here I come finally to the final question. You feel 649 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 3: confident that twenty five years from now and thirty years 650 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 3: from now the United States will still have the highest 651 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: per capita GDP of any major country. 652 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 5: I think the answer to those questions would be yes, no. 653 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 7: And and no, with an addition that, fortunately, I'm at 654 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 7: the age where I don't worry, well, what's gonna happen 655 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 7: in twenty five years? 656 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 3: Well, okay, you have children, are you optimistic about No, 657 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: you're not. 658 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 6: The problem is not that the profession hasn't reached a 659 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 6: level of understanding. I think if the average citizen understood 660 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 6: economics as well as it was understood by economists two 661 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 6: hundred years ago, most of the nonsense that is done 662 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 6: in Washington would be impossible politically. So economists have very 663 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 6: little influence in that sense. The people in Washington decide 664 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 6: what they want to do when they find an economists 665 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 6: who will go along with it. 666 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 3: But Tom, the Tea Party just arose out of nowhere. 667 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,439 Speaker 3: We just had a title wave in which the Republicans 668 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 3: won sixty one new seats in the House of Representatives. 669 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 3: They have a majority of forty nine seats, which is 670 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 3: the biggest majority the GOP has had in decades. Nobody 671 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 3: supposes it was because they were Republicans. It's because of 672 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 3: anger at the nonsense. Doesn't that give you some glimmery? 673 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 5: Yes? Yes, yes, because so if. 674 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 6: Obama had retained the power that he had had before 675 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 6: the election, I think I would have been more than pessimistic. 676 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 5: I would have just been despairing. 677 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 3: All right, Doctor Thomas Sole, the non despairing Dr Thomas Sole, 678 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 3: author of the fourth edition of Basic Economics, which I 679 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: have already bought for my college age student at home. 680 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,439 Speaker 4: Thank you, very much. 681 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 5: Thank you. 682 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 3: I'm Peter Robinson for uncommon knowledge in the Hoover Institution. 683 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us. 684 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: If you liked the Michael Berry Show in podcast, please 685 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 686 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest 687 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated 688 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: directly to the show at our email address, Michael at 689 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website, 690 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: Michael Berry Show dot com. The Michael Berry Show and 691 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King of Ding. 692 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director. 693 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean. 694 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our 695 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated 696 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not, 697 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the 698 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple 699 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally, 700 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD call Camp 701 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and 702 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.