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Speaker 4: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show.
Speaker 4: This next guest I am extremely honored to have on
Speaker 4: the show. I played au growing up with the family
Speaker 4: and we were practice well. Before I played with the family,
Speaker 4: I played with the Michigan Mustangs. But then I played
Speaker 4: with the family and we would practice at Detroit Country Day.
Speaker 4: And this guy right here is one of one of
Speaker 4: two guys who I'll say built Detroit Country Days. Jim
Speaker 4: Now's Chris Webber is the other guy. And this next
Speaker 4: guest that we have on Shane Battier, who's an NCAA
Speaker 4: cham two time NBA champion, the six pick in the
Speaker 4: NBA Draft, two time All being All NBA Defensive Second
Speaker 4: Team uh NCAA final Foremost Outstanding Player.
Speaker 5: Shane Battier. Welcome to the show, my friend.
Speaker 6: And my brother.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, thanks, thanks for thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: You know, the resume. You know, I tell my kids, now,
Speaker 1: I used to be somebody. So when I hear my resume,
Speaker 1: it makes me feel good because my kids don't believe
Speaker 1: I used to be pretty good.
Speaker 4: You know What's funny, Oddly enough, I have a seven
Speaker 4: year old son, and he likes to raise me. He
Speaker 4: telled me like, you're oh you're slow, daddy, You're slow.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, dude, I'm still out there running up
Speaker 4: and down the course. So I can only imagine what
Speaker 4: you have to do with.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I coach high school basketball. My son
Speaker 1: is a sophomore. It is fifteen years old, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know I had to, you know, grab these kids
Speaker 1: by the collar a couple of times this year and say,
Speaker 1: just trust me. If if it worked against cold, it's
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna works for you, all right, Just just
Speaker 1: trust me.
Speaker 6: Trust me on this.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. But I mean, just going
Speaker 4: back to high school. Obviously just mentioned Detroit Country Day.
Speaker 4: What was that experience like for you going to Country Day.
Speaker 4: I know I read some stuff in the book which
Speaker 4: we'll get into, but just like, share that experience with me.
Speaker 4: I have actually one of my best friends in the world,
Speaker 4: Benny Fowler, went to Detroit Country Day. Grew up going
Speaker 4: over to Dumar's house and you know, they all went
Speaker 4: to Country Day.
Speaker 5: Just shared that experience with me for starters.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, it's funny.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I grew up in Birmingham suburb of Detroit, and I
Speaker 1: had never heard of Chris Webber when I was growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, even though he went to school for fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes away and I loved you know, I love basketball obviously,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't until he went to Michigan and I
Speaker 1: was in seventh grade my first year Country Day, that
Speaker 1: I knew about Chris Webber, which is kind of weird
Speaker 1: and the only reason I went to Country Day.
Speaker 6: It was a great academic school. Obviously.
Speaker 1: My mom said, no, you want to go to Country Day,
Speaker 1: and I know what Country Day it was. I was
Speaker 1: just was a kid who like playing sports, and she's like,
Speaker 1: it'said school that has a really good football stadium right
Speaker 1: there in thirteen mile Road. I'm like, oh, really, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that's back when I played football. So that's
Speaker 1: why I went to Country Day. But it was, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a great place for me because you know,
Speaker 1: even though I was from Birmingham, you know, I cut
Speaker 1: my teeth on Detroit Police Athletic League. You know, my childhood,
Speaker 1: whether it's growing up with my little brother or Birmingham
Speaker 1: Little League, it was all based on competition and what
Speaker 1: country day for me was, you were, whether it was
Speaker 1: in the classroom or on the court, is.
Speaker 6: People wanted to win, right, and so we had a
Speaker 6: lot of success.
Speaker 1: So we had we had we won three state championships,
Speaker 1: you know, only lost about seven or eight times. We
Speaker 1: had you know, seven eight guys played in college, guys
Speaker 1: who play in the NFL and everywhere that you look
Speaker 1: at someone who wanted to do big things. And so
Speaker 1: like for me, like people always saw a country day.
Speaker 1: It was you know, you know, preppy kids from from
Speaker 1: the suburbs of Detroita. But like the people just wanted
Speaker 1: competitive and wanted to want to do big things. And
Speaker 1: so for me, like that was the most the most
Speaker 1: important thing.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I got to play with both Chris Weber's little brothers,
Speaker 1: Jason and David, and uh, you know two of my
Speaker 1: favorite people teammates they were they were unbelievable, and you know,
Speaker 1: those battles we had a Country day, and they were
Speaker 1: some of the toughest practice I ever had throughout my
Speaker 1: entire basketball career.
Speaker 5: That's incredible. So tell me this.
Speaker 4: I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this question because
Speaker 4: my heart bleeds green. Why do by the way, at
Speaker 4: a time where Matteen cleveses at Michigan State, Morris Peterson's
Speaker 4: at Michigan State, Charlie Bells at Michigan State, why do
Speaker 4: go for Michigan State.
Speaker 5: I can guess the academics, but I'm sure rus deep.
Speaker 1: True, true story, and I love it is. And I tell
Speaker 1: this this, I tell you, tell us to his face.
Speaker 1: He messed up, you know, being recruited by by everybody,
Speaker 1: and is it just got the job at Michigan State.
Speaker 6: I liked is.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, man, this guy is he's legit,
Speaker 1: he's got it.
Speaker 6: It is messed up.
Speaker 1: One day it came to me, said Shane, and you
Speaker 1: know this, we had the best weight staff in the
Speaker 1: Big Ten. Okay, we're gonna put forty pounds of muscle
Speaker 1: on you and you're gonna be the baddest power forward
Speaker 1: the Big Ten. And then I got Dean Smith and
Speaker 1: Coach k say, no, man like you're a small Ford man,
Speaker 1: you got shoot threes. I'm like, I'm of those guys.
Speaker 1: So that was the reason why that was like the mainer.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be power forward. I didn't want to.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to, you know, put forty pounds and
Speaker 1: bang guys. I want to be a small forward in
Speaker 1: two threes. So that's that's that's why I went south.
Speaker 5: That truth.
Speaker 4: Truth is so interesting to me because I came into
Speaker 4: college as a power forward, right, and now I'm looking
Speaker 4: at all of these things like, wait, this guy's too
Speaker 4: small to be a power for. He needs to be
Speaker 4: a small for. So ironically I start at a small
Speaker 4: Ford position. And where do we play. We're playing at
Speaker 4: Cameron Indoor. We're playing against Kyrie Irving. That's one of
Speaker 4: the six games Kyrie Iver had and he had thirty
Speaker 4: one points. And I caught myself going out there playing
Speaker 4: in the three that year, my junior year, and I
Speaker 4: told coaches though, after that game, I say, hey, coach,
Speaker 4: you know, I think I'm gonna just move back to
Speaker 4: the four man. It's this three spot ain't working for me.
Speaker 4: You gotta chase these little guards off screens, off pinned
Speaker 4: down like I'm not. I'm gonna just go back to
Speaker 4: the four. So I was actually the total opposite, but
Speaker 4: I thought I wanted to be a three.
Speaker 6: That's funny, Well it's funny.
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like I think you and I are
Speaker 1: two the originators of the of small ball four.
Speaker 5: I mean absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean it's whether you can't first or I can't say,
Speaker 1: well whatever, we we were the first, like small forwards
Speaker 1: became power forwards, and now the game is obviously so
Speaker 1: change and it's positionless. But like the ability to guard
Speaker 1: a four and no matter how small you are, that
Speaker 1: that that's the skeleton key man. I mean, obviously one
Speaker 1: of the greatest defenders of in NBA history. And you
Speaker 1: could go you guarded one through five. Literally they say
Speaker 1: like one through five, but you could guard one through five.
Speaker 6: But like what your.
Speaker 1: Special skill was was you're able to get up and
Speaker 1: these leverage you know, against seven.
Speaker 6: Footers who are way about to And it's not.
Speaker 1: About strength, it's just about like knowing how to use
Speaker 1: your body, knowing about angles, knowing leverage and like and
Speaker 1: so like you know, I don't I look back in
Speaker 1: my high school days, I was a back to the
Speaker 1: basket five but I learned how to do that, and
Speaker 1: so when I transitioned to be a small four in
Speaker 1: the league and a two guard for a majority of
Speaker 1: my career, I never lost that and like that was
Speaker 1: that's the skill that unlocks everything. So for these young guys,
Speaker 1: you know, they want to step out, shoot threes and
Speaker 1: turn a face. But it's like, yo, if you want
Speaker 1: to play and like be super valuable to your team,
Speaker 1: like learn to guard the posts, learn the guard you
Speaker 1: can roll because like you'll always play, you'll always play,
Speaker 1: And that's like no one ever talks about that. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm here talking to you. You're like the
Speaker 1: one guy in the entire history of the NBA who
Speaker 1: gets what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: Am I right at one thousand percent?
Speaker 4: It's crazy because you'll see young guys now and to
Speaker 4: your point, they don't have a they don't have a
Speaker 4: clue of how to guard the posts. And Herr's to
Speaker 4: take it even a step further, people stop teaching post
Speaker 4: defense because god start posting up. Well, now the game
Speaker 4: is changing back and you're starting to get guys posting
Speaker 4: up again, and no one knows how to play post
Speaker 4: defense anymore, and especially when you get guys coming from college.
Speaker 4: You know, the first thing these guys come from college
Speaker 4: they do they put their chests out, and I'm like, yo,
Speaker 4: you cannot guard the post with your chest. In the NBA,
Speaker 4: guys hitting your chest, they're spinning off you.
Speaker 5: You just can't guard that way.
Speaker 4: And so it's interesting that you say that because I
Speaker 4: think the key actually to my career, and to your point,
Speaker 4: the key to my career was that my whole life,
Speaker 4: I was the biggest guy in SACONAF.
Speaker 5: So my uncle had me dribbling.
Speaker 4: The basketball coach Speedy told me, like, man, you can't
Speaker 4: just be a five.
Speaker 5: But my whole life I will play the five.
Speaker 4: Now, I play the point guard offensively and post up
Speaker 4: some and bring the ball up the court and make plays.
Speaker 5: But I played the five. So you when once the.
Speaker 4: NBA turned a small ball, you'd see teams like, oh,
Speaker 4: that guy is six six sixty seven too, will put
Speaker 4: him at the five. But my whole life I learned
Speaker 4: how to anchor a defense because I played the five,
Speaker 4: you know, And so uh, to your point, I think
Speaker 4: that's a great thing for young guys to learn how
Speaker 4: to guard to post, on, how to guard pick and rolls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we play for two of the best
Speaker 1: you know, college coaches of all time and coaches coach
Speaker 1: K two that that that didn't hurt. But you know,
Speaker 1: the ability to guard, you know, pick and roll, be
Speaker 1: able to switch off on pick and roll, you know,
Speaker 1: to do every single coverage. You know, like you just
Speaker 1: don't see guys who are that defensively just you know,
Speaker 1: versatile and have the IQ to be able to do
Speaker 1: all that thing in every situation. And it's a huge, huge,
Speaker 1: huge advantage for the young guys if they get that,
Speaker 1: that teaching and that coaching.
Speaker 4: Man, you don't know how surreal this is for me
Speaker 4: right now and growing up and just listen, hearing your
Speaker 4: name and knowing you was from Michigan into doing this
Speaker 4: interview right now is blowing my mind.
Speaker 5: So thank you.
Speaker 4: Before we move away from your early days, something and
Speaker 4: Michael Lewis wrote in two thousand and nine article that
Speaker 4: the inner city kids who who you play AAU with
Speaker 4: treated you like a suburban kid with a white game,
Speaker 4: and the suburban kids who you played with during the
Speaker 4: regular season treated you like a visitor from the planet where.
Speaker 5: They kept black people.
Speaker 4: How was that navigating for you? You the only child
Speaker 4: out of school with a black father and a white mother. Like,
Speaker 4: how was that at Like we're now twenty years removed
Speaker 4: from that. Stuff has moved far away than twenty years though.
Speaker 4: How was that for you then? Having to deal with that, you.
Speaker 6: Know, Drey, it was.
Speaker 1: It was the hardest thing I ever had to deal with
Speaker 1: as a kid, but it was the best thing ever
Speaker 1: happened to me. Right, I never belonged anywhere ever ever.
Speaker 1: You know, I grew grew up in Birmingham, but we
Speaker 1: were poor. I mean, you know, I still remember what
Speaker 1: the government cheese sandwich tastes like. Like I never had people,
Speaker 1: you know, from my school to my house that we
Speaker 1: had like holes in the in the roof when when
Speaker 1: it rained, you know, I was putting pots underneath the
Speaker 1: the uh the holes and like and so like. Sports
Speaker 1: was the one place in basketball, especially that like I
Speaker 1: belonged and I realized at a young age, like, look
Speaker 1: when I win and I help my teammates and my
Speaker 1: friends win, like, they don't care that I'm you know,
Speaker 1: half black, They don't they don't care I'm where I'm from.
Speaker 1: They just know, hey, you can play, and that's that's
Speaker 1: the beauty of sports, and so so I became like
Speaker 1: obsessed with just winning.
Speaker 6: And it wasn't even about like what I did. I
Speaker 6: was like, what do I.
Speaker 1: Need to do to help my team my friends win
Speaker 1: and and so that was my entire game from my
Speaker 1: literally from my kindergarten all the way to my last
Speaker 1: day in the NBA.
Speaker 6: It was just like, man, I gotta just gotta win.
Speaker 6: I just got to win.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I had no want to talk
Speaker 1: to you know, this is before the days you know,
Speaker 1: mental health was even was even invented, right, so no
Speaker 1: one's talking about like the anxiety or depression back in
Speaker 1: the eighties. You know, you just kind of suck it up.
Speaker 1: And my parents can understand, my friends couldn't understand that.
Speaker 1: It's felt like alone and isolated. But the one place
Speaker 1: I made people respect me on the basketball court. And so, uh,
Speaker 1: that was the most important lesson. I learned this lesson
Speaker 1: when I was like in the first second grade that
Speaker 1: I carried with me throughout my career.
Speaker 6: And it's always it's always about winning.
Speaker 1: Man, It's all the matters. If you win, doesn't matter
Speaker 1: who you are. And so that was the hallmark of
Speaker 1: my entire career. So it was the hardest thing I
Speaker 1: ever had to deal with as a kid, but it
Speaker 1: was it was made me who who I am today still.
Speaker 4: Winning cures all, I want to get into an early
Speaker 4: part of your career. I know everyone talks about the
Speaker 4: Miami Heat days, and rightfully, so that's why you want
Speaker 4: a championship and that's always going to be the most
Speaker 4: respected and we'll get into that, but I want to
Speaker 4: talk about something in your career that I thought had
Speaker 4: a huge impact on your career, and I just want
Speaker 4: to know your take on it.
Speaker 5: Playing with y'all.
Speaker 4: Mean in Houston, you end up with seven or eight
Speaker 4: signature shoes with a Chinese shoe company, one of the
Speaker 4: first guys to sign over with the Chinese shoe company.
Speaker 4: How was that plan with y'all and what impact did
Speaker 4: it have on you outside of the game of basketball
Speaker 4: because his brand was so big and reached so far.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, First of all, y'all, y'all was one of the
Speaker 1: best teammates of all time. And you know, you talk
Speaker 1: about a guy who worked, who cared, who brought it
Speaker 1: every single day and never made excuses.
Speaker 6: I mean it was a superstar.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's ever every teammates dream, every coach's dream.
Speaker 1: You know, you saw how much stress he put on
Speaker 1: himself to carry really, like, you know, two billion hopes
Speaker 1: and dreams of his countrymen in China on his shoulders.
Speaker 1: And he did it with amazing grace. And even though
Speaker 1: he could never really stay healthy enough to sustain a
Speaker 1: long career.
Speaker 6: I mean, man, he was, he was.
Speaker 1: He was so good as a teammate, you know, like
Speaker 1: Y'ao could never really train in the summer, so he
Speaker 1: was always kind of like out of shape when he
Speaker 1: showed up the camp. But by by Christmas he finally
Speaker 1: got in shape. And for like two months, man, like
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, like Prime Shack, like Dwight, how we're young,
Speaker 1: they could they couldn't do anything with him. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was like the best player on the planet. And
Speaker 1: then he got tired after about that two month run
Speaker 1: and it was fatigued and wasn't as good. But like
Speaker 1: for that two months, like no one could do anything
Speaker 1: with him. So first of all, he was an amazing teammate,
Speaker 1: amazing human being.
Speaker 6: I love him. Uh.
Speaker 1: Secondly, he brought me to a place in the world
Speaker 1: I never thought I would I'd be you know, every
Speaker 1: kid dreams about having their own shoe.
Speaker 6: And when I signed with Houston, Pete came to me
Speaker 6: and said, hey, we want you to be there.
Speaker 1: You're are international spokesperson. I never heard of Pete all right,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, all right, Like paining American dollars is
Speaker 1: the time when like Nike did this, they weren't paying anything.
Speaker 6: So I'm like, all right, yeah, cool.
Speaker 1: So for ten years, I went to China every year
Speaker 1: and tour of the country, and I've seen every part
Speaker 1: of China.
Speaker 6: And really learned to, you know, love love.
Speaker 1: Just the people of China because they just they love hoops, man,
Speaker 1: they love hoops. They're knowledgeable, they love family, love education,
Speaker 1: all things that you know I was about. And so
Speaker 1: you know, I've done everything in Like I'm way more
Speaker 1: famous in China to this day than I have in America,
Speaker 1: not even close. Like I hosted the Chinese version of
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live and I don't speak Chan Chinese at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hosted it like something like one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: million people every week and watch the show I hosted it.
Speaker 1: I was on Chinese Oprah. I have my own commercials.
Speaker 1: I have like one hundred foot billboards. There's a statue
Speaker 1: somewhere of me in Beijing. I couldn't even tell you
Speaker 1: where it is.
Speaker 6: And so like the.
Speaker 1: Things I saw in China, it was it was nuts,
Speaker 1: but it was it was a great experience for ten years,
Speaker 1: and I have y'ata thanks.
Speaker 5: Do you ever go back there now and do some
Speaker 5: things there now or have you not been back?
Speaker 1: I haven't been back since since COVID. When I go back,
Speaker 1: you know, it's when you go to China, everyone has
Speaker 1: a nickname. And at the time, you know, President Obama
Speaker 1: was was the president, and because the way I talk
Speaker 1: and I'm white skinned, my nickname is mister President. And
Speaker 1: so every city I go to have a press conference
Speaker 1: and people be like, mister President, mister President, you know,
Speaker 1: how do you find Shanghai? And I always say, you know,
Speaker 1: it has the best beer and the best looking women.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: Then I go to ching Tao, mister President, how do
Speaker 6: you find chin Dau?
Speaker 1: You know it's got the best beer and you know,
Speaker 1: the best looking women, And so I laughed. So I
Speaker 1: still walk down the street sometimes and someone from trying
Speaker 1: to say, hey, mister President, I'm fans of you.
Speaker 6: So I'll look forward to going back someday.
Speaker 4: That's incredible And speaking to y'aw you also obviously t
Speaker 4: Mac was was a part of those teams as well.
Speaker 4: We had t Mac actually on the show last year
Speaker 4: and we spoke about winning and health and the different things.
Speaker 4: What was that like during those years of where you
Speaker 4: guys couldn't quite get over the hump of getting out
Speaker 4: of the first round and the beating that you were
Speaker 4: watching tam Mac take due to that, but all of
Speaker 4: you guys had to deal with that.
Speaker 5: What was that like?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was that was the hardest part.
Speaker 1: That's probably the worst part of my NBA career, just
Speaker 1: not being able to have a real you know, NBA
Speaker 1: championship run. We had the talent, you know, it's never
Speaker 1: seemed like we had the right health. And my first
Speaker 1: year in Houston, you know, I'll never forget losing Game
Speaker 1: seven at home.
Speaker 6: It's hard.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd never been to that situation where I
Speaker 1: thought we're gonna win and we're up, you know, four
Speaker 1: or five points in two minutes, going to lose the
Speaker 1: game to Utah. That was a really good Utah team
Speaker 1: with with Booze and and and d will live and occur,
Speaker 1: but they're they're to lose Game seven at home. Man,
Speaker 1: that that really stung. And like you always like assuming like,
Speaker 1: oh man, we're we're going it back, and we just
Speaker 1: never did.
Speaker 6: We never did.
Speaker 1: And one year Team Mac was hurt and we actually
Speaker 1: beat Portland and then lost in the second round. But
Speaker 1: you know, it was tough. T Mac was unbelievable. Man.
Speaker 6: He was so talented.
Speaker 1: And again he had some injuries, so he wasn't as
Speaker 1: explosive as he was earlier in his career. But I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what about t Mac. He's the best passer
Speaker 1: ever played with. I mean, yeah, like people don't give
Speaker 1: him credit for his passing. He was an amazing scorer,
Speaker 1: and he was explosive and and all that, but man,
Speaker 1: he was like he always put it, you know, on time,
Speaker 1: on target.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: I used to yell at Lebron and d Way and
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, like you want to assist hit me
Speaker 1: in the chest and maybe throwing it at my ankles
Speaker 1: or Team Ac never missed the pass.
Speaker 6: Never, And so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one part of Team Act that I
Speaker 1: always say, like you have to give Hi him his flowers.
Speaker 1: He's the best, one of the best passers of our generation.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's interesting to play with Lebron James. I would
Speaker 4: have never guessed that Lebron.
Speaker 6: Lebron used to throw the ball to my ankles and
Speaker 6: take me off my shot. You brought triple doubles. Hit
Speaker 6: me in the chest. I'll make a shot. I can't.
Speaker 6: I can't. I can't promise you. If you hit me over,
Speaker 6: you got you got better.
Speaker 1: But d Wade and Lebron, that's like those That's that's
Speaker 1: the thing that drove me crazy about them.
Speaker 6: It was as great as they were.
Speaker 4: That's hilarious. That's hilarious. That leads us, That leads us
Speaker 4: into our next topic. You joined the heat Lebron second
Speaker 4: year there, which they were coming off of finals loss.
Speaker 4: What was the energy like going in there with you know,
Speaker 4: the Heatles team who was expected to be everything and
Speaker 4: now they just lost in the finals to a Dalas
Speaker 4: Maverick team who they were way more talented than expected
Speaker 4: to kind of run through run the first two games
Speaker 4: and then lose forward in a row.
Speaker 5: What was the energy like what you going in there
Speaker 5: after that?
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, like I was like everybody else
Speaker 1: when when the Big three came together, I was rolling
Speaker 1: my eyes like, oh, come on, man, like really really.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: And so like I was playing Houston and I got
Speaker 1: traide to Memphis and I was like, come on, man,
Speaker 1: it's like this calm down like, you know. So I was,
Speaker 1: I was like everybody else. But as soon as they
Speaker 1: lost to Dallas. I was my first time I was
Speaker 1: ever a free agent in my career, and I'm like, huh,
Speaker 1: I have never won a championship. They're going to win
Speaker 1: a championship. I should go to Miami. And that was
Speaker 1: my thinking. And so when I got there, and I
Speaker 1: was always like, I'm not a Miami guy, Like that's
Speaker 1: not who I am.
Speaker 6: I'm from you know, Midwest.
Speaker 1: I'm from Detroit, like, and you know, the thing that
Speaker 1: struck me about that team was I think they learned
Speaker 1: a lot and they really got humbled by Dallas. And
Speaker 1: the edge that that team had going back the next year,
Speaker 1: I've never seen a team like that. I'll never forget
Speaker 1: Ring Night. It was after the lockout, so first game
Speaker 1: Christmas Christmas Night in Dallas, Ring Night, and like those
Speaker 1: guys didn't want to see the Dallas get the rings.
Speaker 6: We're back in the tunnel, back.
Speaker 1: There in Dallas and you could just see them everyone
Speaker 1: just just so angry and like the edge you can
Speaker 1: feel just like oh man, I look around, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh man, we win in this, winning this And we
Speaker 1: came out and we beat Dallas pretty good and and
Speaker 1: uh you know that night, you know, I got the plane.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh we're winning, We're winning. But like that,
Speaker 1: that team was so talented. They learned the lesson, Like
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, to be a champion, you have
Speaker 1: to go through the fires and you got to get
Speaker 1: you know, kicked in the face and you got to
Speaker 1: get up, and you got to learn understand okay, to
Speaker 1: be a champion, like this is what it takes. Just
Speaker 1: about talent, it's about it's about here. And so like
Speaker 1: I think I was additive to that, but that team
Speaker 1: was so talented. But the hunger and the edge that
Speaker 1: team had was something I had never experienced.
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Speaker 4: One thing that I thought was big and what it
Speaker 4: looked like and I'm and Harris, what iut my question
Speaker 4: would be to you? As it seemed like one thing
Speaker 4: that really got that team over the hump and allowed
Speaker 4: that team to take off was it seemed as if
Speaker 4: d Wade kind of took a back seat, like Bron, listen,
Speaker 4: it's you'll show you go, I'll second fiddle in the
Speaker 4: sense now you know people use it negatively. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: if you want to win championship, your second option it's
Speaker 4: just as important as your first option. But it seemed
Speaker 4: like d Wade kind of took a back seat and
Speaker 4: let Bron go.
Speaker 5: Was that something that y'all discussed. Was it just like
Speaker 5: it just kind of come out, you know.
Speaker 1: I think if you if you saw that team the
Speaker 1: year before and the lost to Dallas, there wasn't good
Speaker 1: flow and it was almost like they were afraid to
Speaker 1: stop on each other's toes, right, So it was like
Speaker 1: d Wade's turn, then it was Lebron's turn, and it
Speaker 1: was CB's turn, like and so like from basketball standpoint,
Speaker 1: it just seemed like they're always like fightening each other, right,
Speaker 1: So I think they came back the next year, and
Speaker 1: like d Wade is like he's one of the most
Speaker 1: you know, he's so cool man, Like he's got all
Speaker 1: the confidence in the world where like he knows like
Speaker 1: what everyone's saying on the outside, but he had the
Speaker 1: confidence to say, you know, dude, I'm a Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame player. I'm you know, a top three or four
Speaker 1: shooting guard of all time. Like I'm gonna get mine,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be fine, right, And so I don't think
Speaker 1: he stepped back, but I don't think he was concerned
Speaker 1: about like whose team was it. And that's the hard
Speaker 1: that's the hardest thing. I mean, you know, I'm playing
Speaker 1: with Clay, with Steph and and and Hall of famers
Speaker 1: like at that level. I mean, you know, you guys
Speaker 1: are all Hall of Famers. Ain't about like one guy, right,
Speaker 1: And it's just like yeah, like I'm gonna do and
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I'm gonna'm I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do what i'm gonna do. And so that was that
Speaker 1: was what d Wade and with CBM and what Bron
Speaker 1: did and just I think that confidence in losing the
Speaker 1: Dallas allowed them to be the best versions of themselves.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, like, you know, those guys are motherfuckers,
Speaker 1: you know, at different times in the year like otherfuckers,
Speaker 1: and their greatness was unleash because they just just say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna doude, I'm not gonna worry
Speaker 1: about anything else, right, I mean, is that what your
Speaker 1: experience was.
Speaker 4: It's funny because I actually use this analogy like one
Speaker 4: of the keys, one of the main key Star Championship
Speaker 4: is this, and Maverick Maverick will use this example Maverick Carter.
Speaker 4: Maverick will say, I'm really type with math, and Mav
Speaker 4: will say, man, I have a lot of respect for Clay.
Speaker 4: And this is when we're going through the runs, he said,
Speaker 4: I have a lot of respect for Clay. I'm like, man,
Speaker 4: tough as nails, right, like he shoots the light size
Speaker 4: of the ball.
Speaker 5: And MAV's like, yeah, but no.
Speaker 4: The reason I have a ton of respect for Clay is,
Speaker 4: he said, because every night, every night, two guys walking
Speaker 4: to the bar and it's Steph, it's Klay Thompson. And
Speaker 4: every night Steph say, all right, there you see them
Speaker 4: two girls. I'm taking the pretty girl and you gotta
Speaker 4: take the ugly girl, he said, And every night Clay say,
Speaker 4: all right, I'll take the ugly girl.
Speaker 5: Let's go and take one for the team.
Speaker 4: He's like, because as great as shoot as Clay is,
Speaker 4: he go on guard the best player and yet he's
Speaker 4: never going to get the credit that Steph was Not
Speaker 4: one time did he ever complain about it. Not one
Speaker 4: time did he ever feel like, ah, man, I need
Speaker 4: to be this or I need to do that. Always
Speaker 4: confident in himself, always comfortable in his own skin, didn't
Speaker 4: care what anybody else had to say.
Speaker 5: And to me, that set a tone for the team.
Speaker 4: Because you're the second best player on the team, you're
Speaker 4: the second option, and you take that approach every single night.
Speaker 4: How can anyone else take a different approach?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: And I think that was to your point, that was
Speaker 4: huge for us, Like just Clay's demeanor and willing to
Speaker 4: like talked about it with Chris Paul, Clay going to
Speaker 4: guard Chris Paul, and Clay going to guard Kyrie Irving
Speaker 4: and like all these guards, he could be like, no,
Speaker 4: I don't want to guard those guys.
Speaker 5: That stuff was every.
Speaker 4: Single night he did that, and it made such a
Speaker 4: difference in our team.
Speaker 5: It was for the better.
Speaker 1: I tell young guys all the time, I say, look,
Speaker 1: no one has ever asked me how many points you
Speaker 1: know did you score in your career? Couldn't tell you, like,
Speaker 1: you know how many points you have in the finals
Speaker 1: game seven, Shane. You know, no one's ever asked me that,
Speaker 1: No one ever. They get two questions about my career.
Speaker 1: They say, where do you keep your rings? And how
Speaker 1: do you decide which one you want.
Speaker 6: To wear that day? Right?
Speaker 1: And so like when you win, they don't care about
Speaker 1: your stats. They just care that you were part of
Speaker 1: that team. And they care that you were You're champion
Speaker 1: and that's forever. Like what you did in that moment,
Speaker 1: you may have hit.
Speaker 6: A big shot, but like no one cares about your stats,
Speaker 6: and so you.
Speaker 1: Want to be remembered when and be a part of
Speaker 1: it and be on the floor and and legacy, that's
Speaker 1: like legacy takes care of itself. It ate about the
Speaker 1: stats and the numbers you put up.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent was have you played with a player
Speaker 4: as good or against a player as good as Lebron was?
Speaker 4: Like that twenty really that twenty eleven, twelve, twenty twelve,
Speaker 4: twenty thirteen season where he was really out of this world.
Speaker 1: He was, let me tell you what, man for as
Speaker 1: good as you think he he was, he was that
Speaker 1: much better. Look you know, and I'm and I'm biased,
Speaker 1: I'm biased.
Speaker 6: I know this. People saying Lebron or MJ.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, what Lebron did something twice that
Speaker 1: I don't think Michael Jordan could ever do. Once he
Speaker 1: won two NBA titles. Shane Battier's is starting power forward,
Speaker 1: all right, So that's it. That's you know, I'm biased,
Speaker 1: but I don't think you know, I love Mike, you know,
Speaker 1: we're the greatest of all time. But Lebron did it
Speaker 1: twice with me as his mom ass power forward and
Speaker 1: dragged me across the finish line. That that that speaks
Speaker 1: to how great Lebron is. But you know, look the force,
Speaker 1: the intelligence, you know, he didn't have a weakness when
Speaker 1: he was in his prime. He's still playing amazing now.
Speaker 1: But I mean just there's no answer, There was no
Speaker 1: answer for him. And he was like a queen on
Speaker 1: the on the the chessboard and just do everything and
Speaker 1: so made my job certainly easier. But you know, I
Speaker 1: love playing with him. He was a you know, as
Speaker 1: great as a player, was even better teammate. And he
Speaker 1: cared about his teammates. You know, we always got the
Speaker 1: newest beats by dre and and whatever Lebron got, we got,
Speaker 1: you know, so like he always took care of us.
Speaker 1: He always came to my charity functions. Uh, you know
Speaker 1: South Beach Battiochy for Betty Take Charge Foundation.
Speaker 6: He always grabbed the mic.
Speaker 1: He always sang, you know, stuff like that matters to
Speaker 1: a teammate, and so will I will always you know,
Speaker 1: I'll always stand for for for Bron.
Speaker 6: That's my guy.
Speaker 4: That was a There was a young guy in the
Speaker 4: twenty twelve two thousand was a thirteen season that I
Speaker 4: hit this first game winner.
Speaker 5: Oh you guys walk off in Miami. Yep. I felt
Speaker 5: really good about it.
Speaker 1: I remember that I messed I messed up that coverage, right.
Speaker 1: It still haunts me. I always proud of myself on
Speaker 1: always thinking and doing the right thing.
Speaker 6: And it was it was a switch.
Speaker 1: I was guarding you, actually, and Steph was coming off
Speaker 1: a screen and I prematurely switched off and I shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: I stayed home and you slipped and finished in d way.
Speaker 1: Just looked at me like what are you doing? And
Speaker 1: I was, oh, so now I was so hot. I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that as long as I live. That's the
Speaker 1: only time I think I messed up at the end
Speaker 1: of the game when it would it mattered defensively.
Speaker 6: In my entire career, and it still haunts me to
Speaker 6: this day.
Speaker 4: Ironically ironically enough, though ironically enough, I don't think I
Speaker 4: would have gotten open on the slip if anyone else
Speaker 4: was guarding me, because you're so ahead of the play, right,
Speaker 4: You're like, oh, I know Steph is coming off and
Speaker 4: it really in the reality, it should just be a
Speaker 4: simple red someone else, what would a would a mester
Speaker 4: red up and Steph would have came off open, And
Speaker 4: you're so ahead of the place, So it actually worked
Speaker 4: with my benefit that.
Speaker 5: You were on me and was so forced. That was
Speaker 5: a highlight for me.
Speaker 4: By the way, when I had the lay up, I
Speaker 4: was telling myself like, oh, I'm about to walk off, man,
Speaker 4: I ran with my hands up.
Speaker 5: Such a great moment for me.
Speaker 4: But but you know, and just speaking of playing with
Speaker 4: Lebron and you were called a Kobe stopper, uh, and
Speaker 4: you've talked about being stuck on Kobe Island before.
Speaker 1: Don't start that, man, my Instagram feed. Man, don't start
Speaker 1: that talk.
Speaker 5: But what what what what do you think?
Speaker 4: What do you think differentiated Kobe from everyone else? Like
Speaker 4: there were obviously other tough covers, Paul Pierce, a tough
Speaker 4: cover you played before you played with d Wayde d
Speaker 4: Way was a tough cover before you played with Bron
Speaker 4: Brown was a tough What made Kobe so much tougher
Speaker 4: to cover than all those other guys?
Speaker 6: You know? And I did not like Kobe. We were frenemies.
Speaker 1: We had this like weird, passive aggressive like relationship. I
Speaker 1: never spoke to him outside of the gym, but there
Speaker 1: was no one I respect him more for his for
Speaker 1: his mind. Look, this guy was relentless, relentless, you know.
Speaker 1: And I, you know, people ask me, like, what do
Speaker 1: you miss about playing? And I said, you know, getting
Speaker 1: in the bus and having those butterflies in my stomach,
Speaker 1: going to Staples Center, being like, man, this guy's this
Speaker 1: guy's gonna try to score sixty on me tonight. He's
Speaker 1: gonna try try to embarrass me. He's gonna try to
Speaker 1: embarrass me tonight, you know. And so like I always
Speaker 1: had to be my best always. And if he scored twenty,
Speaker 1: he wanted thirty. If he scored thirty, you want a forty,
Speaker 1: score forty you want to fifty fifty one to sixty.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, he was relentless. And so there was
Speaker 1: one never a player that I ever took a play off,
Speaker 1: you know, and I got like I wasn't fast, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I knew how to play everybody, and I
Speaker 1: knew when I could sort of like slough off and
Speaker 1: take shortcuts, you couldn't do that against Kobe because he
Speaker 1: was so relentless. And so we had this really weird
Speaker 1: game that we played. Like some days he'd come out
Speaker 1: and be all, buddy, Buddy, hey, Shane, how you doing, man,
Speaker 1: what's going on?
Speaker 6: The next day he wouldn't even wouldn't even look at
Speaker 6: me right And the next time he'd be like, oh, man,
Speaker 6: what's going on?
Speaker 1: And so like he was always like ice and fire
Speaker 1: with me, just trying to throw me off. And I
Speaker 1: had the same mentality. I never looked him in the eye,
Speaker 1: you know, I just was I never said I can't
Speaker 1: guard Kobe. He's so much better than me. And so
Speaker 1: in Mama Mentality he wrote about this, and I didn't
Speaker 1: read about this Leptore's passing, and his passing really affected me.
Speaker 1: So I always thought, I have this time to have
Speaker 1: this conversation with him. So when he passed, it really
Speaker 1: really affected me. And I read his page in my
Speaker 1: a mentality where he said, you know, talking about guys
Speaker 1: were Kobe stoppers, and he said, you know, Shane, you know,
Speaker 1: Shane never talked trash to me because he knew that
Speaker 1: it fired me up. And he never admitted that, like
Speaker 1: he could guard me. He's like, but I saw that
Speaker 1: a false humility and I attacked him because of it,
Speaker 1: but I still respected Shane. I'm like, he's right, he's
Speaker 1: one hundred tent right. So, like he knew me without
Speaker 1: really even knowing me, and that's what was special about
Speaker 1: our relationship. And you know, we never spoke outside the
Speaker 1: basketball court. I didn't know me, He didn't know me,
Speaker 1: but like we knew each other and had this weird
Speaker 1: like dynamic on the court. And so for me, he
Speaker 1: he was the pinnacle of competition, the pinnacle of of
Speaker 1: of of excellence, and he always brought the best out
Speaker 1: of me. And that's why I love.
Speaker 4: Him absolutely, which brings me to my next question. I'd
Speaker 4: be remiss if I hadn't access because it's something that
Speaker 4: really gets under my skin.
Speaker 5: And you just mentioned it.
Speaker 4: Everyone nowadays people have a good game and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I channeled the Mamba mentality, and I'm just like, don't
Speaker 4: stop it.
Speaker 5: They don't do that like that's that's not okay.
Speaker 4: And by the way, if Kobe was still alive, I
Speaker 4: don't think y'all would be saying that, because Kobe will
Speaker 4: call you out and tell you that's actually not it.
Speaker 5: But like, what do you make of all of these
Speaker 5: people going on TV?
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, I got the Mampa mentality, I'm doing this,
Speaker 4: Like what do you make of that?
Speaker 1: Well, look, you know, Kobe inspired generations. All these young
Speaker 1: guys came out. They grew up on watching Kobe, you know,
Speaker 1: him hitting those jumpers and making big shots, and so
Speaker 1: to them, like that's their dream. Like you know, you
Speaker 1: and I watched you know, the Pistons and Isaiah and
Speaker 1: jod and and you know all these guys and bad boys.
Speaker 1: That's that's what inspired us. All these guys are inspired
Speaker 1: by Kobe.
Speaker 6: And so.
Speaker 1: You know, in this Instagram world, you know, you think
Speaker 1: you know somebody just by watching him and all, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be that guy.
Speaker 6: But like, there's only.
Speaker 1: One code, you know, and there's only only one person
Speaker 1: that puts in the work and understands the sacrifice, understands
Speaker 1: the discipline, understands you know, every single night what it
Speaker 1: takes right and to me, that's what mama mentality is.
Speaker 1: It's it's a relentless pursuit of excellence. And it's not
Speaker 1: about like, you know, having a big game. It's about like,
Speaker 1: this is this is who I am every single time
Speaker 1: I step out on the court. And it's the hardest thing,
Speaker 1: his hardest thing in life, hardest thing in basketball to
Speaker 1: be that dude every single time you lace them up right,
Speaker 1: And so you know, it's I think it's cute that
Speaker 1: these guys are paying homage to Kobe, But then do it.
Speaker 1: Do it for as long as he did it at
Speaker 1: that level, for as long as he did it, and
Speaker 1: then maybe we can talk.
Speaker 4: See, you said that better than I could ever said it,
Speaker 4: because you know what I said, I hate that ship.
Speaker 4: I hate when people say that, But you said, you
Speaker 4: put that better than I've ever heard it put. It's
Speaker 4: about that pursuit of excellence every single night because people
Speaker 4: don't understand that, like when you got to do it
Speaker 4: night in and night out.
Speaker 5: These young guys come in.
Speaker 4: To the league and they like, I want his spot,
Speaker 4: I want that thing, I want this money, that contract, And.
Speaker 5: When you have to do that every single night.
Speaker 4: On a soft Monday, and you know, who got the
Speaker 4: worst record.
Speaker 5: Detroit got the worst record in the league.
Speaker 4: Right now, on a soft Monday, soft Tuesday, you rolling
Speaker 4: into Detroit, it's two below outside, and you got to
Speaker 4: go do that. You know, Like, then where's that mama mentality?
Speaker 5: Then?
Speaker 4: So I definitely can appreciate that throughout your career and
Speaker 4: guarding Kobe, you guard it, and I think we all
Speaker 4: can agree there were different versions of Kobe, right Like
Speaker 4: you had twenty four, you had eight. You had Kobe
Speaker 4: that you know, people never really talk about it, but
Speaker 4: you did have Kobe that sometimes will come out and like,
Speaker 4: I'm getting my teammates involved and make a concerned effort
Speaker 4: to like get everybody involved and get double just assists,
Speaker 4: and you got Kobe that's come out to your point
Speaker 4: and it's like, no, I'm going for sixty tonight. What
Speaker 4: were the different versus of Kobe? What was the toughest
Speaker 4: one for you to guard?
Speaker 1: Well, look, you know I came in the league when
Speaker 1: the Lakers, you know, we're doing it. That's when they
Speaker 1: had their dynasty, and it was a different game, all right,
Speaker 1: And dude, like people know how dominant Shaq was, but
Speaker 1: like when Shaq was in prime Shack. There was no
Speaker 1: stop him in like the entire world, right circle of
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, two thousand and three, Right, So
Speaker 1: every game plan the Lakers had it was like how
Speaker 1: do you stop Shack? You know, and like like we're
Speaker 1: doing X Y Z traps like no one even knows
Speaker 1: who that is anymore. Right, We're going on the catch,
Speaker 1: we're going on the dribble, or we're full rotating, right
Speaker 1: like they've no one does that anymore. But that was
Speaker 1: the league game planning against Shaq. And so like for Kobe,
Speaker 1: it was just like, hey man, we gotta worry about Shack.
Speaker 1: Like you're on your own, Kobe. So Kobe was like
Speaker 1: this dude just like ran around and didn't get any help.
Speaker 1: The entire game plan was was there to stop Shack.
Speaker 1: And and so you know, when Shaq leaves goes to Miami, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, that was kind of Kobe's term time to say,
Speaker 1: look like this is my team and I'm gonna show
Speaker 1: everybody that you know, I made this go not Shak, right, and.
Speaker 6: So like you know, and buying them and and those
Speaker 6: and l O and those guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a handful because not only was
Speaker 1: he like you know, had that much more knowledge, and
Speaker 1: he was in his physical peak, but like he had
Speaker 1: an edge that he's going to show everybody that like
Speaker 1: this is about the Lakers or my my, my franchise, not.
Speaker 6: Shacks, right, And so he just was a monster. Just
Speaker 6: was a monster.
Speaker 1: And that was the toughest Kobe to guard because he
Speaker 1: was so hungry and he was playing for greatness, not
Speaker 1: just to win championship.
Speaker 6: And at the end, you.
Speaker 1: Know, obviously, uh, you know, he was still doing it,
Speaker 1: you know, and he was a handful. He didn't have
Speaker 1: the talent around him as much. So that was that
Speaker 1: was my favorite Kobe. A little easier to go, but
Speaker 1: still a monster. Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I saw that you want you said when you play
Speaker 4: against him, it was like the ultimate chess match. And
Speaker 4: for me, who liked to view myself a lot in
Speaker 4: your laying, you know where I can think the game
Speaker 4: and I have to use my brain to get one
Speaker 4: step ahead. I may not be as fast as this guy,
Speaker 4: or may not jump as high as this guy, but
Speaker 4: I'm gonna play harder than you, and I'm gonna outthink you.
Speaker 4: And you speak about that being an ultimate chess game,
Speaker 4: would you say Kobe was the it was the guy
Speaker 4: throughout your.
Speaker 5: Career that that was like d one.
Speaker 4: There was no one else that you had to play
Speaker 4: chess with because for most people, I'm sure a lot
Speaker 4: like myself, you can out chest them no problem.
Speaker 5: Then Kobe was that one like tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, look, I would put in terms
Speaker 1: of just mental guys who mentally that were just a
Speaker 1: monster to guard. You know, I put Manu in that category, right,
Speaker 1: he was a monster just mentally. Dirk was was a monster.
Speaker 1: Uh you know Paul Pierce was you know you said.
Speaker 6: Earlier he was. He was a really tough cover for me.
Speaker 1: Man I struggled guarding Paul with Paul was super crafty,
Speaker 1: strong head it all.
Speaker 6: God Lee, I chased around Ai.
Speaker 1: You know, a I was like a monster when I
Speaker 1: when I was a rookie, I played two guard had
Speaker 1: to chase him around and he was like so smart
Speaker 1: because he was small but like so fast and uh
Speaker 1: you know. So there was a select few guys that
Speaker 1: you just knew every night, like man, you gotta like
Speaker 1: you got to be here.
Speaker 6: You got to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard work, but you got to be here
Speaker 1: every single play. And that was that was then part
Speaker 1: you know with Kobe, like you know, as analytics came
Speaker 1: in the game, and like I got to learn, you know,
Speaker 1: the weakness and strength with every single play. I would
Speaker 1: never say, like I stop these guys, but I understood,
Speaker 1: like what really got me beat and what didn't right,
Speaker 1: And that was the difference as you get older and
Speaker 1: understand the math behind basketball and so like, like I
Speaker 1: was willing if Kobe wanted to hit you know, ten
Speaker 1: you know, future line jumpers against me, that was the
Speaker 1: best case scenario for me. And if you hit them, hey,
Speaker 1: tip your cap and move on. But if I put
Speaker 1: him with the line fifteen times, or if I let
Speaker 1: him get to the hole and and make plays like,
Speaker 1: that's not me.
Speaker 6: That's not me.
Speaker 1: So like you just learn with certain guys like okay, look,
Speaker 1: I'm taking my medicine. If he has jumpers, nothing you
Speaker 1: can do.
Speaker 6: He's that good.
Speaker 1: And once you do that enough and over the course
Speaker 1: of a season, over the course of a career, you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's how you stay away from like the huge,
Speaker 1: huge games.
Speaker 6: Game after game.
Speaker 1: These guys are gonna bang you on the head every
Speaker 1: now and then, but at least you get a fighting
Speaker 1: chance to to help your team and keep those guys
Speaker 1: under control.
Speaker 4: It was almost like you know, I know you as
Speaker 4: you try to make them take the tough long twos.
Speaker 4: You was on the analytics before it's a real thing,
Speaker 4: and now you know, and transition into life after playing basketball,
Speaker 4: you've kind of gone in that direction. How would you
Speaker 4: say you were using that in a sense then but
Speaker 4: didn't quite know or were you already aware of it
Speaker 4: and was using it then?
Speaker 1: No, I got to learn that in Houston, you know,
Speaker 1: from Sam Hanky, Daryl Morey and you know the way
Speaker 1: that they talked about analytics to me, which made sense.
Speaker 1: I like, I like playing blackjack, and they're like, you
Speaker 1: got to think about basketball like blackjack. Right, when you
Speaker 1: get dealt pocketasis, what do you do? You always split
Speaker 1: them right ten times out of time because that gives
Speaker 1: you the best chance to win that hand.
Speaker 6: Now does that guarantee you you're gonna win that hand?
Speaker 1: No, you know, get bad cards, dealer hits twenty whatever,
Speaker 1: But like it gives you the best chance, right, and
Speaker 1: so like there's everything about basketball is the same way
Speaker 1: you said, like givers put yourself in a position to
Speaker 1: give yourself a chance of having success, whether you have
Speaker 1: success or not, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 6: You did what's right.
Speaker 1: You split the aces right, you made them take long jumpers.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I became so focused on process,
Speaker 1: so focused on what should have happened, and I didn't
Speaker 1: care about what did happen actually, And that's like opposite
Speaker 1: of how we're taught to play sports, right, we're so judging,
Speaker 1: we're judging the results. And for me, it was judging
Speaker 1: the process and did I get my did I split
Speaker 1: the aces or did I hit on you know, you.
Speaker 6: Know, saw seventeen whatever.
Speaker 1: And so when you are so focused on process, it
Speaker 1: sets you free. It sets you free because you know
Speaker 1: you did the right thing and if you do the
Speaker 1: right thing enough, good things happened to you. And so
Speaker 1: that's how I was able to stay in along the
Speaker 1: league as long as I didn't have success, even though
Speaker 1: it was slow, couldn't jump, it couldn't move.
Speaker 4: So and now no one what analytics are today and
Speaker 4: your career did you have? Were you born ten years
Speaker 4: too early? Because if you were born ten years later, yes,
Speaker 4: I can raise my hand. Analytics gonna take you to
Speaker 4: it even further place. Because it helped me a ton,
Speaker 4: Like every night it's not going to be the twenty
Speaker 4: points for me. Right, it's not every night, it's not
Speaker 4: going to be fifteen assists. But analytics actually allows you
Speaker 4: to see a different story.
Speaker 5: So I'm gonna say thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you know, I'm always half for my brothers
Speaker 1: gets paid, all right, I have no I'm not one
Speaker 1: of those bitter old guys and say, oh man, yeah
Speaker 1: those guys are overpriably.
Speaker 6: Hey, it's a wonderful thing. It's a wonderful thing. But yes,
Speaker 6: I do.
Speaker 1: Wish sometime I played about ten years later, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll probably be a bit much bigger jerk.
Speaker 6: Now, I gotta be a nice guy. I gotta be
Speaker 6: a nice guy.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: You're the former VP of analytics some basketball development for
Speaker 4: the Heat.
Speaker 5: How do you feel the team changed? You know, the
Speaker 5: Heat is an old culture.
Speaker 4: It's pat Riley leading the charge and Eric Spolcher who's
Speaker 4: understudy for pat Riley. Uh, dating back probably thirty plus
Speaker 4: years now, how how do you think that the team
Speaker 4: changed under your watching the analytical view that you brought
Speaker 4: to that team and working with that front office staff.
Speaker 1: Look, I like the Heat, you know, because they've had
Speaker 1: thirty years success, right and what Pat Pat's done was
Speaker 1: sposed on you just can't teach, right. And so I
Speaker 1: when I was hired to run analytics, I didn't go
Speaker 1: in there saying, oh, like you got to you got
Speaker 1: to listen to my numbers and.
Speaker 6: And you know you're doing it the wrong way. No, no, no,
Speaker 6: Like I.
Speaker 1: Think that when you have data, it can always help
Speaker 1: kind of the eyeball test and and and add to
Speaker 1: the process. And so that's what I just try to do.
Speaker 1: I try to build a platform and a team that
Speaker 1: could uh just sort of uh support Pat Riley and
Speaker 1: and Eric Spolstra and just give them one more you know,
Speaker 1: one more tool to assess talent, put together a roster
Speaker 1: play the game of basketball.
Speaker 6: And that's that's what analytics is.
Speaker 1: Like the best, the best teams, they have the human element,
Speaker 1: they have the the math element, and they combine the two.
Speaker 1: All right, it's not all analytics, it's not all eye tests.
Speaker 1: Just to see this in business now, the companies that
Speaker 1: can can marry data and people, that's who wins. And
Speaker 1: that's just that's just the era that.
Speaker 5: We live in.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Uh is y'a aultimate goal? You want to be
Speaker 4: a GM one day? No?
Speaker 1: No, but you know, I coached high school basketball this
Speaker 1: year and and uh I coached my son is a
Speaker 1: pretty good ball player. And so uh we're actually transferring.
Speaker 1: We're moving to Charlotte, and uh, I'm gonna retire from
Speaker 1: coaching and just be it, just be a dad. And
Speaker 1: so right now I'm an advisor for the Miami Heat.
Speaker 1: And that's probably the closest I'll ever get to the GMC.
Speaker 1: You know, I like, I like Washington from Afar. I'm
Speaker 1: doing a lot of consulting now. I'm in business. I
Speaker 1: run a foundation, I sit on some boards. So I've
Speaker 1: enjoyed transitioning to more more of a business mindset and
Speaker 1: dealing with different problems. So I'll leave the basketball problems
Speaker 1: to my best friend Mike then Leby.
Speaker 4: By the way, Mike has been incredible, man, he has
Speaker 4: been absolutely amazing.
Speaker 5: I'm happy we have.
Speaker 1: I've won him for many many years and in my
Speaker 1: wedding and we have weekly calls to you know, to
Speaker 1: break it all down. So he's he's gonna win a
Speaker 1: championship as a GM sooner than later.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, did did you come to that conclusion? Or yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean did you come to when you were the VP?
Speaker 4: Of analytics that you didn't want to be a GM
Speaker 4: or initially did you think you want to do that?
Speaker 6: I didn't know. I think in the back of my mind,
Speaker 6: I thought I could do the job.
Speaker 1: And you know, I obviously know the game, and you know,
Speaker 1: when I got in there, there's just so much in
Speaker 1: the world, you know. I mean, you're you're you're a
Speaker 1: successful investor, and you meet so many different people all
Speaker 1: walks of life, and so when you sort of get
Speaker 1: out of the game, uh, you get expose of so
Speaker 1: many things and so many really interesting people and and
Speaker 1: so I think that's what happened to me, just just
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's investing in a company or sitting
Speaker 1: on the board and being able to help people and
Speaker 1: and and help you know, use the lessons I learned
Speaker 1: from basketball and business like that was more exciting to
Speaker 1: me than front of draft players.
Speaker 6: You know, that's just me.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, utilizing your brain in a different way,
Speaker 1: thinking about different problems you know that you never thought
Speaker 1: of before, helping people in ways you never thought possible. Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's what excites me now. And I still love basketball,
Speaker 1: I'm still connected to it, but it's just fun to
Speaker 1: challenge yourself in a different way and grow in a
Speaker 1: different way, and and try to be a champion in
Speaker 1: a different way.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, what do you think, knowing what you know about
Speaker 4: this game, You've obviously had an up close picture of it.
Speaker 4: Out of Miami Heat, they go to the NBA Finals,
Speaker 4: sweat two of the last three years. What do you
Speaker 4: think that team needs to do that really get over
Speaker 4: the hump? I felt like the last couple of years
Speaker 4: they've been there, everybody's just like all right, you know
Speaker 4: they don't have a chance to win, and then they
Speaker 4: don't win. You know, like, what do you think the
Speaker 4: Heat team needs to do the ultimately get over the final?
Speaker 1: Just got to make shots, man, they say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I was talking to a GM last year and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, the Heat had a great strategy last year.
Speaker 1: Miss all the three pointers they took in the first half,
Speaker 1: but make them all in the second half.
Speaker 6: You know, that makes a big difference. You know, it's
Speaker 6: a make mis league.
Speaker 1: We know the Heat they're going to be you know,
Speaker 1: well coached, They're going to play their ass off, They're
Speaker 1: going to play great defense. Right, they got tough players,
Speaker 1: they got all star players, they got Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: players on their roster right. So much of this league
Speaker 1: is do you make shots? You know, and especially you know,
Speaker 1: three point shots. And we haven't had the best shooting
Speaker 1: year this far, but if you get hot the right time,
Speaker 1: like they have last couple of years in the playoffs, man,
Speaker 1: there there's they're as good as anybody. So you know,
Speaker 1: people ask me that question all the time, what do
Speaker 1: you have to do to win? He's gonna make shots, man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, a couple more before we get out
Speaker 4: of here. I'll be remiss if I didn't accident You
Speaker 4: mentioned them earlier about the legendary coach k obviously had
Speaker 4: the chance to play against him. I also had the
Speaker 4: chance to play for coach k for for a team
Speaker 4: USA we want the Olympic gold medal in twenty.
Speaker 5: Sixteen in Rio.
Speaker 4: Obviously that's a whole I'm sure an entirely different coach
Speaker 4: k Uh than the coach k that coach shoot Who's
Speaker 4: who's out front? Very quiet now, you know, calm, But
Speaker 4: from what I've heard from guys that played for Duke,
Speaker 4: you get behind them closed doors, and coach k Is you'll.
Speaker 1: You talked to me about you tell me your experience,
Speaker 1: you know, like your perception of I played for him,
Speaker 1: So what was your perception going into Rio and the
Speaker 1: Olympic cycle versus what you think of him or how
Speaker 1: you know him now.
Speaker 4: So my perception going into Rio was that like he
Speaker 4: was going to be super tough, like kind of all
Speaker 4: in your face, And he wasn't that, Like he was
Speaker 4: kind of more philosophical in a sense. Now, what I
Speaker 4: did love about Coach k and what stood out to
Speaker 4: me more than anything, was the pride he had for
Speaker 4: the shield, the USA shield, the pride that he took
Speaker 4: in that everything everything we did was about the USA shield.
Speaker 4: You're playing offense for that shield, you're playing defense for
Speaker 4: that shield. The way you carry yourself is for about
Speaker 4: that shield. And so just the man he was for
Speaker 4: me stood out more than anything. But I, like I said,
Speaker 4: I don't think he coached us as hard as I've
Speaker 4: seen him coach do God.
Speaker 1: So by that point I played in his first international
Speaker 1: team two thousand and six World Championships. Now that is
Speaker 1: the only time he lost. We lost to Grease in
Speaker 1: the semi finals, and he learned a lot. He learned
Speaker 1: a lot. So I think, you know, Mellow is the
Speaker 1: wrong word. But he he learned how to deal with
Speaker 1: you know, Hall of Fame players much better than maybe
Speaker 1: he did back in two thousand and six. But you
Speaker 1: know what make coach k you know, my mind, the
Speaker 1: greatest coach of all time is it was never about
Speaker 1: wins and losses like you can talk about we have
Speaker 1: to win this game or we have to win this quarter.
Speaker 1: It was always about standards, right and this, this is
Speaker 1: the standards of duke basketball, and this is what will
Speaker 1: This is the only thing that will accept you know,
Speaker 1: this is the standard or USA basketball.
Speaker 6: We're not going to accept anything less than this. And
Speaker 6: as long as we.
Speaker 1: Play to those standards, like wins takes care of themselves.
Speaker 1: And that was you know, we won one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty one games and lost fifteen in my four years,
Speaker 1: and we didn't talk about, hey, we have to win
Speaker 1: this game once. It was about we have to play
Speaker 1: to the standard a duke basketball. And every person that
Speaker 1: came through the doors as a freshman, they learned, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what we expect to be. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's no different than than coach Izzo, you know,
Speaker 1: walking in the Brezlan Center like this, this is who
Speaker 1: we are and this is what we do, is how
Speaker 1: we act, this is how we train, this is how
Speaker 1: we think, this is how we talk to each other.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you do that over the course
Speaker 1: of multiple recruiting classes or years, that's the culture. And
Speaker 1: after a while it's worked to maintain that culture. But expectations,
Speaker 1: that's the most important thing. And so that's what I
Speaker 1: learned about Coach K. And it's always having a high
Speaker 1: standard for yourself, expecting the most out of yourself, and
Speaker 1: being part of something larger than yourself is much more
Speaker 1: important than any individual contribution that you can give.
Speaker 4: And after I think forty years, a couple of years ago,
Speaker 4: Coach K stepped down and another one of your Duke
Speaker 4: brothers takes over, John Shire, who's the head coach?
Speaker 5: What after?
Speaker 4: And I'll let you get out of here after this,
Speaker 4: But after coming behind a legendary coach like Coach K,
Speaker 4: arguably the greatest of all time. But at least one
Speaker 4: of what is success for John Shira at Duke like?
Speaker 4: Does he is he expected to live up to what
Speaker 4: Coach K did? Is success? One championship? Is it getting
Speaker 4: the final fource? What is success for Duke after following
Speaker 4: a legendary coach that you all played for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, John has done an amazing job, all right.
Speaker 1: First of all, the you know we talk about the
Speaker 1: brotherhood shield. You know, we're proud of our school and
Speaker 1: because it's about the standard of playing for something larger
Speaker 1: than yourself and that that you know, yeah, we'd love
Speaker 1: to go to final fours and win championships, absolutely, but
Speaker 1: if the process is right, if it's not short changed,
Speaker 1: and you the right things, and you got to be
Speaker 1: a little bit lucky. If you do all these things,
Speaker 1: success follows. And it's not about doing it the right
Speaker 1: way or whatever it's about. It's about doing it the
Speaker 1: hard way. It's about doing it consistently. And that is
Speaker 1: expectation as an alumnus and everybodybody who's come through that program, uh,
Speaker 1: that we expect John to do and what John has
Speaker 1: done to this this point. So we're behind coach Shire.
Speaker 1: It's hard, man, it's hard to win with all these
Speaker 1: young guys, and you're trying to teach life lessons for
Speaker 1: kids who are there for a cup of coffee and
Speaker 1: that's just the nature of college basketball now.
Speaker 6: But you know, John's coach is gonna win We're behind him.
Speaker 5: I respect that man, Shane.
Speaker 4: Like I said before, this is an honor for me
Speaker 4: growing up in the state of Michigan, always hearing your name,
Speaker 4: always being able to turn turn on the television and
Speaker 4: be like, man, that guy comes from here, he made it,
Speaker 4: we can make it. One of the heroes for me.
Speaker 4: And so I can't thank you enough for coming on
Speaker 4: the show. We have you back anytime, but just thank you.
Speaker 4: This has been a complete honor, a pleasure I learned
Speaker 4: a time.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for coming on the show. I
Speaker 5: really appreciate.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you Grandma. Thanks for representing state of Michigan.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know one of the like I said,
Speaker 1: one of the all time greats in the NBA.
Speaker 6: Man, you make us proud.
Speaker 5: Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.