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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, thanks for joining me for lunch today on

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Speaker 1: my podcast Table for Two. This time we're not at

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Speaker 1: the Sunset Tower or Via Carotta, but it's Zinc in

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Speaker 1: beautiful Malibu, California.

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Speaker 2: I'll just like a hot macha with oat milk or

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Speaker 2: something and some kind of milk.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is a super smart, multi talented actor

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Speaker 1: who's had an amazing career. You know him from The

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Speaker 1: X Files and Californication. He's also a writer, a musician,

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Speaker 1: and now a podcaster.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so watching me.

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Speaker 1: I have a little I guess it's early lunch sometime.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just have a little pick me up.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We're having lunch with the one and only David Ducovney.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about his new podcast fail Better

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Speaker 1: and his new film Reverse the Curse. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be a breezy afternoon here in Malibu, so pull up

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Speaker 1: a chair, grab a glass of rose, and enjoy. I'm

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Speaker 1: Bruce Bosi and this is my podcast Table for two.

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Speaker 1: You've pulled up a chair. Today we are sitting with

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Speaker 1: an actor, a writer, a director, a New York Times

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Speaker 1: best selling author, a singer, a songwriter two times Golden

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Speaker 1: Globe winner, four time Emmy nominee. You know, you're classic underachiever.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that would be. We have something

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Speaker 1: in common, which is we are New York City boys.

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Speaker 1: Went to collegiate, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: To Saint David's you did, Yep.

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Speaker 1: I love New York.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, job.

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Speaker 1: So you graduated high school in seventy eight, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I was eighty to eighty four.

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Speaker 3: So going city kids, you know, I went back and

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Speaker 3: I raised my kids in the city.

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Speaker 2: I did not know, Yeah, because you know, from the

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Speaker 2: ages of like i'd say nine or ten to fifteen,

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Speaker 2: it's the best place to be raised because.

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Speaker 3: You can get some independence.

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Speaker 2: Like if you raise your kids in LA you're just

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Speaker 2: gonna be show fering them around.

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Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be They're never going to be rid

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Speaker 3: of you.

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Speaker 1: I hate you, they hate you, and you hate them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to drive you anymore. Like I told

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Speaker 1: it the other day, you got to figure this out, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's a skill set we learned.

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Speaker 3: That was yeah. Kind.

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Speaker 2: So I grew up on eleven and second, which is

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Speaker 2: is a cool you know mix of a neighborhood. It

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Speaker 2: was actually like the ethnicity of it. When I was

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Speaker 2: growing up, and it was weirdly Puerto Rican Ukrainian. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was very Ukrainian neighborhood. And my dad actually is

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Speaker 2: part of Ukrainian, but that's.

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Speaker 3: Not why he was that's not why he ended up there.

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Speaker 2: But you know, they had Bisielka down there in the

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian catering home, and so there's a lot of Ukrainian

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Speaker 2: influenced a lot of Puerto Ricans, and it was just

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Speaker 2: a really you know, you don't think about it when

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Speaker 2: you're growing up in New York or anywhere. I assume

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Speaker 2: you don't think, I wonder what it's like to grow

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Speaker 2: up somewhere else. You just kind of take a program.

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Speaker 2: And for me, you know, once I got out of

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Speaker 2: New York or whatever, it was just very I was

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Speaker 2: very accepting of everything, like I'd seen everything, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you don't react, like that's one of the things like well,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's like survivalist things like if you reacting

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Speaker 2: all the time, it would just seem weird and they'd

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Speaker 2: kill you.

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Speaker 3: But it's like you don't belong here if you react.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, I think, you know, the unconscious education

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Speaker 2: that I got was really living.

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Speaker 3: Let live. I mean, i'd have to say it was.

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Speaker 2: You know, New Yorkers have a reputation being very tough,

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Speaker 2: but it's not.

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Speaker 3: It's not that way at all. It's very They're very accepting.

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Speaker 3: You have to be. Yeah, everybody in the world is

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Speaker 3: living on top.

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Speaker 1: Of each other, the coexisting every.

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Speaker 2: Culture, color, of religion is just right on top of

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Speaker 2: each other, and you just got to accept it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I find the same thing, the skill set that's developed

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Speaker 1: as a result of this daily sort of confluence of

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Speaker 1: just all this noise and people. And like I thought,

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Speaker 1: it was a beautiful thing. I mean literally, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're nine years old, you're ten years old, you walk

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Speaker 1: out your door, You're like, I'll see you guys later.

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Speaker 3: Right, You're in the world. So I don't know if

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Speaker 3: they do that anymore.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they do.

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Speaker 3: But it's I think more in New York than here, obviously.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, my mother.

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Speaker 2: Used to give me two bucks Saturday, put of my

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Speaker 2: sock and I get a sandwich Minnesota at lunch, right,

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Speaker 2: and I'd make my way home by by the dinner time.

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Speaker 3: It was. It was perfect.

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Speaker 5: I was talking to Matthew Broderick, who also grew up

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Speaker 5: in New York and Matthew Roderick, his mother and my

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Speaker 5: mother used to push our carriages around Washington Square Park

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Speaker 5: for some reason, our mothers knew each other.

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Speaker 3: So I know Matthew a little bit too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: My daughter was just acted with him, which was great.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, Matthew and I I wouldn't say we're

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Speaker 2: close friends now, but back.

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Speaker 3: Then we were a little babies.

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Speaker 1: You were going around Washington's. I sat to him, I go, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know that you know street you grew up And

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Speaker 1: he's said, no, we grew up in them, not street,

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Speaker 1: but in the building that was sort of like the

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Speaker 1: tenement of the building, right. But what he was saying

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Speaker 1: with the two bucks, He's like, you know, the police

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Speaker 1: officer came to school, and we grew up at a

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Speaker 1: sea where you had the meeting where the officer was saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: I always had like two bucks in one posit.

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Speaker 3: Like you know.

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Speaker 1: Money you gave up if you got mugged, you're mugging money.

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Speaker 1: And he goes, he was always mugged. He goes, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I had a sign on the over

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Speaker 1: up and I was mugged all over the place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I didn't get mugged much. I think I ran,

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Speaker 2: I ran a lot, yeah, or I was just you know.

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Speaker 2: The other the flip side of being accepting is you're

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Speaker 2: also hyper aware of your surroundings and you know, you

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Speaker 2: just stay out of what looks like a bad situation.

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Speaker 1: Well you smell it, I mean, so that skill set.

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Speaker 3: It was weird when I got to La. I couldn't

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Speaker 3: smell it on the streets.

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Speaker 2: It was weird because you'd be walking down a nice

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Speaker 2: street and then people would say, because there's nobody on it,

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Speaker 2: people say, that's that's not a good place to be working.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I could remember at.

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Speaker 1: Some point someone's saying I think it was a cop

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Speaker 1: that said, you know, La is actually mask itself, so

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Speaker 1: it's a very dangerous city because it appears so safe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know how to read it exactly.

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Speaker 6: We know how to read like you know how to

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Speaker 6: walk through the inside of the street, or you know

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Speaker 6: how to absolutely like like if you and I are

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Speaker 6: walking down the lock and I'm like, okay, this might

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Speaker 6: be trouble as opposed to even there just always scanning always.

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Speaker 2: That's what I would have this argument with my kids

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Speaker 2: because they go out with their earbuds in.

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Speaker 3: I'll be like, you can't do that. You can't.

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Speaker 2: How about wanting this, I don't think so. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's a good idea. You want to be aware,

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Speaker 2: even if it's just traffic.

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Speaker 1: No, you can't lose that sense, right. That's and like

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Speaker 1: you know, with with the crossing the street, I always

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Speaker 1: tell our kid, you can't assume that that person's not

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Speaker 1: looking at them right now. Yeah, so you gotta be

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Speaker 1: on your game.

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Speaker 2: Well, when I first started acrossing the street in La

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Speaker 2: it was crazy because the streets are like a mile

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Speaker 2: but a mile long, and so you can't get across

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Speaker 2: on a green By the time by.

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Speaker 5: The time you got to run, it's like always like

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Speaker 5: oh my god, wait a minute, I'm going to get

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Speaker 5: like they really just did nothing to make this a pedestrians.

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Speaker 3: It's not. And that's that's fine. It is what it is.

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Speaker 1: So growing up, you know, you were a collegiate boys school.

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Speaker 1: It was the top all boys school in New York

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Speaker 1: City by five I mean it was like you guys.

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Speaker 2: Were like I would say, you know, I would say, still,

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Speaker 2: it's a hundred, it's a great It was a great school. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a school of privilege and all that.

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Speaker 2: But you know, in terms of like a classic education,

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Speaker 2: a foundation, what.

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Speaker 1: Did you take away from that school. I always looked

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Speaker 1: back so much.

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Speaker 3: I mean I went there for four years. I didn't

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Speaker 3: go the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Ye Oh, they just they worked my ass off. I

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Speaker 2: mean I had I just had to work so hard,

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Speaker 2: and I learned how to write. It was a writing school.

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Speaker 2: Every everything was written, you know. It was just always writing,

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Speaker 2: always reading, always writing. And that was that was the education.

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Speaker 2: It turned me into a writer, or at least comfortable

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Speaker 2: with writing. And for me, writing has always been a

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Speaker 2: different kind of thinking that I can do. You know,

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Speaker 2: I can sit here or I can talk to you,

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Speaker 2: or I can sit here and think. But it's a

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Speaker 2: different kind of thinking. When I have a pen in

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Speaker 2: my hand or a you know, a keyboard up my fingers,

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Speaker 2: I think differently. And I like having access to that

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Speaker 2: and Coleas it would have just been the ones to

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Speaker 2: cultivate that.

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Speaker 1: Set that foundation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that was the most important thing. I

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Speaker 2: mean I've called it a writing school. I think it

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Speaker 2: is a writing or was.

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Speaker 1: When you sit down, I mean, you do so much.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I mean, I certainly did not know, David.

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Speaker 1: I mean, your education is just phenomenal. Obviously, you're extremely

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Speaker 1: smart going to Princeton and Yale. When you sit down

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Speaker 1: to write and you know you've written books, You've written songs.

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Speaker 1: I was grooving to your album on my way up

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Speaker 1: and yesterday that you wrote I believe you wrote it

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Speaker 1: during the COVID time. What did you sit down with

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Speaker 1: the intention to, like, do you have an idea? Like?

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Speaker 1: How does that flow?

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Speaker 2: It just depends on the idea. Like, if I'm lucky

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Speaker 2: enough to have an idea, I'm not sitting around having.

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Speaker 3: Ten ideas a day. I mean, there maybe was a

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Speaker 3: year or two when I did, but it's past.

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Speaker 2: And so if I'm lucky enough to have an idea

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Speaker 2: that I think and usually because of what my business

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Speaker 2: has been and what my primary.

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Speaker 3: Business always was was as an actor in.

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Speaker 2: Hollywood, I would think, oh, I would I want to

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Speaker 2: have an idea for a movie or a television That's

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Speaker 2: what I wanted to have, and then I would sit

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Speaker 2: with it and try to see what it was. My

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Speaker 2: first experience of writing a book was actually to take

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Speaker 2: movie ideas that I'd had that I wasn't able to

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Speaker 2: get done. The first one, Holy Cow, was actually an

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Speaker 2: animated film that I wanted to pitch that I did

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Speaker 2: pitch a couple places, no takers, And then in twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen or whatever it was when I first started, I

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Speaker 2: remember just waking up one morning and it's just saying,

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Speaker 2: fuck it.

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Speaker 3: You know, I like that story.

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Speaker 2: If I don't write it as a novel, it's not

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Speaker 2: going anywhere. Nobody's going to do it, and I'm not

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Speaker 2: interested in like banging my head against that wall.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I just sat down and I wrote that.

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Speaker 2: In the same with Buggy Fucking dam Wow, was like

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Speaker 2: I tried to make it for six or seven years,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, fuck it. I love the story.

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Speaker 2: I want to see it. I want to I want

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Speaker 2: to share the story.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about Bucky fucking which I.

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Speaker 3: Believe, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think we have to call it reverse the Curse

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Speaker 2: because what happens is, Yeah, what happens is I've been

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Speaker 2: told by a vertical who's releasing the film that once

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Speaker 2: it goes to streamers, the algorithm will then bury it

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Speaker 2: if it has fucking the title, because we protect children

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Speaker 2: from you know, it won't give me like it won't.

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Speaker 3: It won't be forthcoming.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you type it in, I'm sure it'll

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Speaker 2: show you that it's there, but it'll it'll be harder

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Speaker 2: to find.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was like, oh, that sucks. Okay, well

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Speaker 3: you have to figure that out. So it's now reversed

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Speaker 3: the curse.

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Speaker 1: I think reverse the curse. Okay. So you know, several

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Speaker 1: months ago, I had the good fortune of seeing this

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Speaker 1: movie way before. But it was even in that if

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Speaker 1: you go up in New York City in the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, you knew Bucky Dank the movies really amazing.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, You're welcome.

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Speaker 1: And it really is such an interesting story of a

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Speaker 1: father and a son and aging and health and caretaker

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Speaker 1: and romance and relationship and what what was what spoke

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Speaker 1: to you about that telling that story and very powerful story.

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Speaker 1: Your performance is truly amazing and the cast is great.

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Speaker 3: Thanks came together.

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Speaker 2: Like most like stories that can hold up the foundation

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Speaker 2: of a novel or a movie, they have different strands

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Speaker 2: in them.

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Speaker 3: In my experience, they come together.

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Speaker 2: There's an initial idea, and usually I'm attracted to the

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Speaker 2: initial idea, probably for a reason that I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yet that I figure out, oh there was something in there,

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Speaker 2: and then it becomes something else and with with with

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Speaker 2: Bucky or reverse the curse, whatever the reverse. What happened

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Speaker 2: was I was married at the time, and Taya's parents

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Speaker 2: had this house out in Massachusetts, and there were guys

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Speaker 2: working on the roof. So one of the guys I

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Speaker 2: heard Bucky fucking Dan and I was like, Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: amuses me. And I knew about the game that was

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Speaker 2: Actually it was my first like probably my third week

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Speaker 2: at Princeton when that would be September, like early October

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Speaker 2: seventy eight, right, I had just gotten there, and I

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Speaker 2: remember listening to it on the radio or something, and

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Speaker 2: I just I have this kind of affinity for I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't say losing, but losers are failure. And I'm doing

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Speaker 2: this podcast now about pitt failure. So I'm interested in.

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Speaker 2: I really dislike the last eight years that were ushered

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Speaker 2: in by the kind of Trumpian like Winter Winter winner.

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Speaker 3: Like world winners.

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Speaker 2: And I see it also in sports now, where there's

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Speaker 2: not a graciousness towards the losers or even a respect

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Speaker 2: for thank you for pushing me than you thank you

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Speaker 2: for making me do my best. I mean, it does exist,

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Speaker 2: but it's like less and less. So for me, it

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Speaker 2: was like my heart breaks for the losers and we

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Speaker 2: all do. We all lose way more than we win.

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Speaker 2: That's the fact of life. And we all lose in

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Speaker 2: the end, we all die. So it was like I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about these things and Bucky being the symbol

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Speaker 2: of the guy who wasn't supposed to beat you, and

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Speaker 2: Boston being the symbol of it, of futility, of never winning,

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Speaker 2: and that I had this idea that Boston fans really

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Speaker 2: missed that identity, you know, like they really had an

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Speaker 2: identity when they were losers, and when they're winners, they

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Speaker 2: just they can't really embrace that. It didn't feel right

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Speaker 2: to them, I would say, So that's kind of circulating around.

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Speaker 2: The name was important to me, and that there would

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Speaker 2: be humor and that name always that nickname always made

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Speaker 2: me laugh. And then my daughter got when she was

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Speaker 2: nine months old, she got very ill and she had RSV.

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Speaker 3: And double ammonia. They didn't know what else. They thought

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Speaker 3: maybe she had manage it just to get respired to it,

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Speaker 3: very much like.

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Speaker 2: In the movie. And I had had this notion that

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Speaker 2: when she came back she lived. Obviously, she's doing great.

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Speaker 2: She was in the hospital a week or two, touch

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Speaker 2: and go. It felt for like a few days. And

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Speaker 2: I had really been scarred by this in some way

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Speaker 2: that I couldn't quite figure out.

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Speaker 3: And it felt to me like it was hard for.

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Speaker 2: Me to reattach to her because I was so terrified

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Speaker 2: of the power that her life and death had over me.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, oh, that's that's an interesting story about

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Speaker 2: how love can make you not.

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Speaker 3: Love, you know, how love can make you detach rather

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Speaker 3: than attached. Orr what does that do to a child?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: And now you have the child grown up and lacks

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Speaker 2: a certain kind of confidence and not talking about my glory,

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Speaker 2: but talking about the character of the book. So these

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Speaker 2: are the things, the plates that you spin up in

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Speaker 2: the air, and then you try to execute a plot

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Speaker 2: that is fun and surprising and it's fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting, David, because you know, then you have the

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Speaker 1: story of the father in the sun. I find getting olders.

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Speaker 4: Not for the you know, not for the for the young.

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Speaker 1: For the you for sure, but it's you know, and

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Speaker 1: being there with aging parents, and you know, it's very hard,

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Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful sort of because the relationship was

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Speaker 1: not a great relationship going into when you went back home.

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Speaker 3: But you're like, Okay, how.

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Speaker 1: Is your relationship with your dad? Is that?

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Speaker 3: That's the funny thing is it's nothing like that, really.

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Speaker 2: I mean that that if that character, if the Marty

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Speaker 2: character in the book is similar to any anybody in

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Speaker 2: my family. You know, my mother was kind of fierce

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Speaker 2: like that, but my mother's Scottish and Marty feels his

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Speaker 2: way to American. And then there's kind of my dad

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Speaker 2: is super gentle, uh you know.

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Speaker 3: Not aggressive, not macho, yeah, very.

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Speaker 2: Easy going, uh you know, not super decisive, just kind

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Speaker 2: of go along and get along kind of a guy.

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Speaker 2: So neither of my parents are really models for for

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Speaker 2: that guy. But my my dad and my mom divorced

348
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Speaker 2: when I was eleven, so I didn't see much of

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Speaker 2: him after that. So some of him for a couple

350
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Speaker 2: of years. But then he moved to Boston and then we.

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Speaker 3: Moved to Paris actually, and so I didn't really see

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Speaker 3: he was remarried.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really see much of him. So I had

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Speaker 2: a great kind of lack of a man in my life.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's funny, I'm just rereading my buddy and

356
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Speaker 2: I Jason Bagay, Like when I first came out here,

357
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Speaker 2: he was already acting and I was just beginning, and

358
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Speaker 2: we had all this time on our hands and kind

359
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Speaker 2: of we were young men trying to figure out what

360
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 2: it was to be a man, you know, And we

361
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Speaker 2: read Iron John.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember reading that.

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Speaker 2: Robert Bli's book fascinating and I'm just talking about.

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Speaker 3: I'm rereading it right now.

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Speaker 1: I'm a feeling that you've read a lot more books

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Speaker 1: than I have.

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Speaker 2: Well, Iron John, it's a beautiful book about I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I haven't re read it again. I'm in the middle

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Speaker 2: of it, but I'm giving it to my son, you know.

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Speaker 2: And it's kind of because I think men are it's

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Speaker 2: a tough time.

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Speaker 1: It's a tough time.

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Speaker 3: I don't want sympathy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think am I soon is twenty one, and

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00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 2: I look at him and say, it's hard to navigate

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Speaker 2: how you're supposed to be.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh.

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Speaker 1: So that's a great book, you're saying for him too,

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Speaker 1: as he's entering.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's all about it's about fathers and sons, but

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00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 2: it's also beautifully about and this is not something I

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Speaker 2: had and sadly not something I had for my son,

383
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Speaker 2: but to have.

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Speaker 3: Like male mentor figures in a.

385
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Speaker 2: Child's life because the father you're always going to have,

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Speaker 2: it's always going to be complicated, like and a father

387
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Speaker 2: is not a mentor.

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Speaker 3: Really, a father is a father, and a mentor is

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Speaker 3: a mentor, you know.

390
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,439
Speaker 2: And so the idea that you can have uncles, I

391
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 2: think some cultures like have uncles and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Whether or not they're blood related, I don't know, but

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00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 2: this idea of kind of you know, a bunch of

394
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Speaker 2: dudes that you could call on every now and then

395
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Speaker 2: when you get in trouble or it's important.

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Speaker 1: This movie is coming out around Father's.

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Speaker 3: Day, yeah, like June fourteenth, right, so it's a big deal. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think you wrote it and you directed.

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Speaker 1: What was it like to direct? What's it like to

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Speaker 1: direct yourself?

401
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 3: Oh?

402
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 2: It's easy, it is, yeah, because you have all this

403
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 2: creative energy. Whatever you're doing, if you're doing the podcast

404
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 2: or you're doing you're acting or whatever. You know, you

405
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 2: bring your entire being to it. And when you're acting

406
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,439
Speaker 2: that can sometimes be a pain in the ass because

407
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 2: all you've got is this performance that you're doing. And

408
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 2: everything creative is going towards it, and you're sometimes you're worrying.

409
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 3: It too much. You know, you're just not letting it

410
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 3: fly when you're acting and directing.

411
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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just like not even thinking about it, right,

412
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Speaker 2: I'm just because I have I'm directing the whole time. Yeah,

413
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, so there's a certain kind of like thrown

414
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Speaker 2: away quality.

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00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 3: It feels good. It's like I'm like, did I get

416
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 3: the words? Close? Scripts of Advisor says yes, I it fine, great,

417
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 3: Let's move on.

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Speaker 1: You know.

419
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Speaker 2: So you're really it's really in sinctual as opposed to like, oh,

420
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 2: I'm sitting around all day for one scene.

421
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Speaker 3: Thinking about it.

422
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,439
Speaker 2: I got some ideas, you know, let me let me

423
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 2: do another take, let me do another take.

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Speaker 3: It's just like, no, just go with the instinct.

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Speaker 1: That's why. I mean, Plus you wrote it. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's like so like this whole thing is living inside

427
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Speaker 1: of you.

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Speaker 2: Well. The weird thing is that I had written when

429
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 2: I first wrote the story, I had written myself for

430
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Speaker 2: the snow.

431
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then.

432
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Speaker 2: I didn't get it made for you know, however many

433
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,400
Speaker 2: years and I almost made it, like four years ago

434
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 2: that the pandemic screw it up. I even four years ago,

435
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 2: I was going to play the son, and I'm glad

436
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 2: I didn't because I was too old. And you know,

437
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 2: it's like, you wouldn't have sympathy for a guy my

438
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 2: age who's still whining.

439
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 3: About his father. No, you know, so he had to

440
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 3: be he had to be in his thirties.

441
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Speaker 1: It's really funny when I listen to people and you know,

442
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: you god do the work, But when someone's past a

443
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,959
Speaker 1: certain age and they haven't dealt with it, and you're like,

444
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 1: you gotta figure this out.

445
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 3: I don't want to listen.

446
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 4: You know, you really don't want it in a movie.

447
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 3: You don't want to go on the ride with the guy,

448
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 3: you know, if you don't respect him.

449
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 4: And welcome back to Table for two.

450
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 1: My guest David Duchovny just launched a new podcast called

451
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,960
Speaker 1: fail Better. As an actor who is used to being interviewed,

452
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm curious what it feels like to be the one

453
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 1: asking the questions.

454
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 2: Well, I've been thinking about this, you know, doing the

455
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 2: podcast in your position, and you know, I'm used to

456
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 2: being in this position with you, But when you're in

457
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 2: that position, your position, it's different because you can really

458
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 2: you have to be okay with somebody being silent, you know,

459
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: and just figuring out what they want to say, and

460
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: you you're kind of you know, you kind of know

461
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 2: you want to go certain places. So there's a little

462
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 2: bit of like your manipulating, but you also want it

463
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: to be You don't want to like ruin their trust,

464
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: right because you're like, I'm here to just talk about

465
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 2: whatever exactly.

466
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 3: It's a funny. It's like a bifurcated consciousness that happened.

467
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: And if you're I find the beauty of it is.

468
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: I might have come in with the intention of a question,

469
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 1: but you go down to different exactly half and then

470
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: that's the path we're going to go down.

471
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: You don't have anybody like talking to you, at least

472
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 2: I had, you know, if I'm doing it from my

473
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: zoom or whatever, right they can my producers say, go back.

474
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 3: To well you drop that one, you know, Yeah, did

475
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 3: you just hear that?

476
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: Believe me? I walk away a lot like did I

477
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: miss that one?

478
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 3: You know?

479
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: Your podcast Failed Better explores failure in all of its forms,

480
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 1: professional personal, in the ways in which failure, shame, and

481
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: falling short shape our lives. I think that's really a

482
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: great conversation and have many people because we do live

483
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 1: in the culture of everyone gets a trophy and also

484
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: winning and winning winning, So and you have guests. I

485
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: mean Bette Midler, who I've sat with and she was

486
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: she doesn't really do a lot of podcasts. No, she

487
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:20,479
Speaker 1: was simply amazing. I know, the energy, the energy and

488
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: the force and just the life.

489
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know how I didn't know Bet, but I

490
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: was having lunch in Santa Monica and I saw her

491
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: walk in and I'm pretty sure this is in the podcast,

492
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 2: but that's okay. But I was having lunch with a

493
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: friend and I said, ah, you know, I spent Midler.

494
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 2: I used to bartend at Radio City Musical when I

495
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: was twenty one twenty two for a catering company that

496
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: had the concession of the drinks. So you'd set up

497
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: before the concert, sell some drinks, and then you'd sell

498
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: more drinks at intermission, and then you break down. But

499
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: I got to see a lot of people because after

500
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 2: I set up and drinks in the beginning, I could

501
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: go watch, and then I could watch afterwards after I

502
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: broke everything down, and I saw Bet Middler, who I

503
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 2: really have no interest in seeing back then, you know,

504
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: because she wasn't like hip right right, and.

505
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 3: My god, she was the best performer I'd ever seen.

506
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: Like I'd never seen somebody that took the audience from

507
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 2: like laughing.

508
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: And then she came out with the rose. She stood

509
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 3: there saying it alone and everybody's fucking crying, and I

510
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 3: was like, who is this person?

511
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, never met her, So forty years later whatever, I'm

512
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: in Santa Monica and I'm like, you know what, I've

513
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: always wanted to meet Bet and just say I had

514
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 2: the best experience watching you, you know, And so I did.

515
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: And then we just started talking and she asked about

516
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: my writing and said she was going to read books,

517
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 2: and I told he about podcasts and she said she'd

518
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: come on and all that.

519
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: See, it's wild. I think it's like, first of all,

520
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: telling someone the effect that they've had on you is

521
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: so great, and we get so afraid to come go

522
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: up to somebody, whether someone's especially when someone's famous, but

523
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: in whatever way, say you affected my life, and.

524
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 3: You know it so important because I've only gone up

525
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 3: to three people in my life that I really who

526
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: that Muhammad Ali.

527
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: I saw him in a I was I was going

528
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: on Central Park West in the cab and I just

529
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: looked into one of the hotel you know, like he

530
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: was talking to the door man, and I was like stop.

531
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 3: I got out and I said, I just want to

532
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 3: shake your hand.

533
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: Champ, you're saying that was it? And Ringo recently. I

534
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: was on a plane recently, maybe five years ago, and

535
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 2: I was just I was.

536
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 3: In I seen him and I was sing. I was like, fuck,

537
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 3: I really wanted to just to say.

538
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: I love the Beatles, just like such a part of

539
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: the fabric of my life, you know.

540
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: And so uh.

541
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: I eventually asked the flight attendant do you think Ringle

542
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: would mind if I said hi?

543
00:24:49,640 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, no, he's really nice. So I.

544
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: Your podcast? What inspired that for you? And can you

545
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: give me also an example of in your own life

546
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: a failure or a failure.

547
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 3: It came about during the strike last year, which was

548
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 3: he went on for like nine months or whatever.

549
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: So like in the sixth month, my agent Carter said

550
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: to me, you know, we can't do any work for you,

551
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: like it's illegal, but podcasts are okay. You know, podcasts

552
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: are not covered by this by the strike. Have you

553
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: ever thought about doing a podcast? And I said no,

554
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: not really. He said, well, if you want to think

555
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: about it and talk to our guy, and I said okay,

556
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: And then I talked to Josh le Migrant over there

557
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: at CIA, and I just gave him a couple of

558
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: ideas and he liked this one, and then we just

559
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: set it up almost immediately, which you know, which is

560
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 2: not my experience in Hollywood at all. And it was

561
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: really fun to just go out and be like, oh shit,

562
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: we're doing it all ready, and I think it's been

563
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: you know, for me, it was really it's really about shame, really,

564
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: because I see shame as being like a real killer,

565
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: like a real heart attack in the making. And you know,

566
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: I've dealt with shame in my life over whatever issues,

567
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: personal failures, sexual issues, things like that.

568
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I deal with We all deal with shame. We're

569
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: in civilization.

570
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: We got to be broken enter it in a way

571
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: because we're animals, So here we go. And for me,

572
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: it's about lessening shame and just having a discussion about

573
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: rather than like saying, you know, I what do people say?

574
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: You know, losing is not an option? And I was like,

575
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 2: you think, really, so great, well good luck to you, right, Yeah,

576
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: So how do you feel when you lose. If losing

577
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: is not an option, what does it feel like to lose?

578
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: So if that's the culture, that's a real shame based

579
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 2: around losing culture. So I'd like to see a different

580
00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: way of embracing failure, of forgiving failure, of moving on, resiliency,

581
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: of all these things that I think are indispensable to

582
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: continuing on in life, you know, moving on beyond a success,

583
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: beyond a failure or whatever, all different kinds of failure.

584
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: What could have been like huge box office could also

585
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: be like I hate that fucking movie you know that

586
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: I did or whatever. You know, So there's different. It's

587
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: not just about oh yeah that movie sucked and you

588
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: got terrible reviews and that was a failure. It's personal,

589
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: subjective kind of feelings of failure for me, you know,

590
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 2: you ask for you know, specific instance.

591
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: It's even like just.

592
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: The creative act. To me, it's always right with failure.

593
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: It can be wonderful and it's going to be what

594
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 2: it is. But let's just say writing, Like if I'm writing,

595
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with words, right and I'm thinking in words.

596
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: But that's that's kind of already a step removed from

597
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: feeling and inspiration. So there's always like this leap that

598
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: you're making from if you can imagine what it's like

599
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: inside your head.

600
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: It's not words, it's chemicals and feelings. Yes, it's impulses.

601
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: And then then you go, Okay, I'm an artist. I

602
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 3: want to express something.

603
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to translate that shit into something

604
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: that other people understand words. So I have my words,

605
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: but already I feel, oh, there's a failure there because

606
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: it's not exactly what I'm feeling. It's what i'm thinking,

607
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 2: it's what i'm writing, it's what i'm saying.

608
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 3: So and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I

609
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 3: don't know that.

610
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: I'd love to have, you know, God's words, you know

611
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: whatever you know, because because Adam named the animals, you know,

612
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: that's what we do.

613
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 3: We're the naming animally. We're given the power to name things.

614
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: So I'm not I'm not looking for perfection, And in

615
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: that failure, it's the most beautiful thing to me. That's

616
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: where my heart goes out to a performer when I

617
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: see them on the brink of failing. Not totally in command.

618
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: I don't totally in command is not that interesting? So

619
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: interesting to me is to watch somebody like, oh shit,

620
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: they're just on that high wire right now, and even

621
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: if they fall, I love them.

622
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: We're not taught how to live with failure. We're not

623
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: taught how to you know, to be with it. So

624
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: it becomes this thing that you're just like the shame piece.

625
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: You know. There was so much.

626
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: Shame I had in my life just based on my

627
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: sexuality growing up in the time that we grew up.

628
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: And I looked back and they were I always knew.

629
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: I mean it was very you know, and and and

630
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: kids knew. So kids were rough, you know, they do

631
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: all that shit. But like, what was amazing to me

632
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: was that the adults that clearly knew or had an

633
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: inkling that were responsible for the upbringing. I often say, wow,

634
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: like there would have been a lot of time saved

635
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: in figuring this out if there was a conversation to

636
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: be had. And but then I look back and say,

637
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: that helped make me who I am and created a

638
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: sense of empathy and sympathy, and you know, so I

639
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: think it's a really fascinating one.

640
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: I also had to get resilient, right, you have to.

641
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 1: Get results laid down, No, no, no, you create the wall

642
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: that you know how to. So when you're thinking, like

643
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: when you go into this conversation with your guest, because

644
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: it's really you don't know where this is going to go,

645
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: because you're not like you're sitting with someone like that,

646
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: you don't know what she's say. Necessarily you're going to

647
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: be like, oh, okay, wow, it wasn't how is that?

648
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: God?

649
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: My kind of feeling off the top is I don't

650
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: want them, the guests, to feel that I'm I'm trying.

651
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: To find something right.

652
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: It's not a gotcha that they failed.

653
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: At tell me about your failures as a person, you know,

654
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: I want you to tell me what you want to

655
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: tell me along these subject lines. I have no interest

656
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: in trying to figure out, you know, or relitigating or whatever. Yes,

657
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: and you know that comes from being on this side mostly,

658
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: but also like you know, sometimes I think maybe I'm

659
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: not tough enough to be doing. I'm not an investigative report.

660
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: You know.

661
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: I don't want you to be uncomfortable. I want to

662
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: have this discussion. I don't want you to lie. I

663
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 2: don't want it to be you know, easy right, But

664
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: I'm not interested in finding out something that you did.

665
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: It was a failure and hurts and could hurt other

666
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: people by talking about So sometimes I feel like, oh,

667
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, push on that area

668
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: because I don't want somebody to say something that they

669
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: will regret. They know what the show's about. They have

670
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: agreed to do it. Which is why I don't like

671
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,719
Speaker 2: calling in favors, you know, because I don't want somebody

672
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: who doesn't want to be there. But I want them

673
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: to be interested, you know, like, oh, that's a conversation

674
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: that I want to have.

675
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us on Table for two.

676
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: David is obviously incredibly bright, having attended both Princeton and Yale.

677
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: He's also a writer and a music and it seems

678
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: like his life could have taken many paths. What inspired

679
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: him to pursue acting.

680
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 4: Talk to me a.

681
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: Little bit about so you decide, you know, you're obviously,

682
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: like I said, a very educated, smart man, and you've

683
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: decide you wanted to go into movies. What made you

684
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: want to pursue such a difficult career where there's so

685
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: much asking for permission? And what do you consider like

686
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: your first sort of like break into the business.

687
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I didn't know anybody who was

688
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 3: an actor. I never I never knew an actor.

689
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: None of my parents' friends were in show business, so

690
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: I didn't know how difficult it was.

691
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: We only knew Matthew, but he was a big We

692
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: lost us with one another.

693
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: So I just didn't know. Yeah, which is great. I'm

694
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: glad I didn't. Yeah.

695
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the tough things about the

696
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: Internet is like you know everything now, and you know

697
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: how hard everything is, and how many.

698
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 3: People won't what you you're trying.

699
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: To do, and like, fuck it, why would I even

700
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: so I didn't As far as I knew, I was

701
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: the only one who was going to try this for

702
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: me when I got out of it was coming from.

703
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: And again I talked about this in the podcast a

704
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: little bit, coming.

705
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: From an intellectual background, coming out of collegiate and going

706
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: to Princeton and then Yale. I'd over developed certain muscles

707
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: and some muscles were undeveloped, I think, And when I

708
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: went when I first started going acting class, it wasn't

709
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: even about acting.

710
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: In New York.

711
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: Were in New York there was a woman named Marsha

712
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:39,239
Speaker 2: Halfrecht who was associated with Strasberg method teaching, and I

713
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: had I had grown up around a certain like fragility

714
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: in my parents, let's say, especially single mom, you know

715
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: where you know, my job was to like do my

716
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: work and do well and not create drama. And here,

717
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, they were saying, drama is the best.

718
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 3: Thing to do.

719
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: You know, create drama, you know, being asshole, get into

720
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: a fight, be a problem, be the obstacle, you know.

721
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm always the guy that makes

722
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 2: things easier. I'm the grease. Now you're saying I can

723
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: be the obstacle. That's great.

724
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 3: I'd never It was a part of me that was dying.

725
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: And I don't want to say that acting is therapy

726
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: because I don't really love that topic and the way

727
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: people talk about it, because it's not quite that. But

728
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: it was part of my soul that was languishing and

729
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: I found, you know, a place it felt like home

730
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 2: in a way. I was like, oh shit, you know

731
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: I really can live here now?

732
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: Is that amazing?

733
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

734
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: You find this place I know that came out of

735
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: nowhere you didn't even know existed, and it becomes a

736
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: feeling of home.

737
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

738
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: So that was the initial attraction to performance, was I

739
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: could indulge all the feelings that I had and there

740
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: were no consequences, you know, So not only were there

741
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: not concert quences, but there were positive consequences if you

742
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: gave into your worst impulses.

743
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, true, right, I mean surrounded by a lot of people.

744
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, right right, No, but I mean just in the

745
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: acting space, screaming, yelling, crying, y laughing, all those things.

746
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: Getting it all out.

747
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

748
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: I think it must be so great to be able

749
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: to put on someone else's skin for a while and

750
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: have this ability to perform, and then it ends and

751
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: then there's something new.

752
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is great.

753
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: I mean for me, it's always it has been, you know,

754
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: like a continuing education just of my spirit in a way.

755
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

756
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: Not not intellectual, right, you know, and you know it's

757
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: true that acting is not an intellectual pursuit.

758
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: But that's not to say that actors are dumb.

759
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: You know, they just have different kind of emotional intelligence

760
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: or whatever. My emotional intelligence was not cultivated until until

761
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: I went to this place, or it was it was

762
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: it was looking for places to work out, you right.

763
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because you were you know, literature was

764
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: such a big part of your education, so you were

765
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: reading and reading and Honestly, I think that foundation creates

766
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: the space to be an incredible actor as you are,

767
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: and also to have emotional lives because you're you're reading

768
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: all about you know.

769
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: Well, for me, you know, literature is philosophy. Yeah, literature

770
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 2: is history. Uh, you know, it's it's it's it's a religion.

771
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 2: You know, it's a it's all these things, and religions

772
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: are just stories, you know, instructive spiritual stories as well.

773
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 2: There you know, you can see the Bible as a

774
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: novel if you want.

775
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:36,479
Speaker 3: Yeah.

776
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: Right, So to me, it was the deepest understandings that

777
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: you can have. But again, you know I was lacking,

778
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 2: you know in the kind of person to person, right,

779
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 2: you know, emotionality of life.

780
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: Is there a particular book or author that really kind of.

781
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: You just oh that I come back to, Yeah, I

782
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: mean I come back to I tend to come back

783
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 2: to Emerson, Ralph Waldo, Emerson, Nietzsche, William Blake. These are

784
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: poets and philosophers. But even if their philosophers like Emerson

785
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: and and and Nietzsche, they write poetically.

786
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

787
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 2: Philip Roth as a novelist I think was my favorite

788
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: of the past century. Thomas Pinchon, Uh.

789
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: More contemporary like Richard Powers. I think this is an

790
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: amazing whetter.

791
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: You also, I thought it was so interesting You've been

792
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: directed by Mike Nichols.

793
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I was like a glorified set.

794
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: You know, you're like learning and uh, you know it's

795
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: like the beginning of like having such a genius, you know,

796
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: of seeing someone like that.

797
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, well for me it was. You know, I

798
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 3: think it's it's very important to have a moment in

799
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 3: one's career. Uh.

800
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: And I think about this with my children as well,

801
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 2: where you you have that moment of oh I belong here,

802
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: you know, And that happened to me with Chaplain actually

803
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: down And I.

804
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: Mean that was a hell of a movie.

805
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had, you know, basically, I was there

806
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 2: a lot, not a lot to do. I played his cameraman,

807
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: Benn Raley Tothereau, and I worked with Downey again just

808
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: recently on.

809
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: The Sympathizer, which is coming on and it was great.

810
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: It was great to do.

811
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: And I remember kind of watching I had a scene

812
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: with dan Aykroyd and then there was a scene that

813
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 2: Kevin Klein was doing and you know, Downey and they

814
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: were all these great actors, and I just remember, and

815
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: not to denigrate them at all, but I remember thinking,

816
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: it's not so different from what I think I want

817
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: to do. You know, it's not They're not doing something

818
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: different from what I think I'm doing. I mean, that's

819
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: going to sound like ego, but it was really like, Oh,

820
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: they're human beings. They're trying this, they're doing this thing.

821
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: They're really good at it. But I don't think it's

822
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: a different language from the one I'm trying to speak.

823
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. And so after that, I was like,

824
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: I can play there.

825
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: That's really cool to get there, because we tend to

826
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: sort of put people in a pedestal and think like, well,

827
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: that's them and I'm different. But if you're right, the

828
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: end of the day, we are animals. We're all the same,

829
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: and if you know, there's different skill sets and there's

830
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: different things that you know will light us up. But

831
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: being on that set and being in the room and

832
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: looking at them and as opposed to sort of leaning back, yeah, okay,

833
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: they're speaking a language I could speak.

834
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: I'm speaking and you know, Richard Amber was the director,

835
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: so I was it was a big deal.

836
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 3: A lot of heavy hitters at all time.

837
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: Meg Ryan directed by Meg Ryan, which I didn't realize,

838
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: you know, America's Sweetheart in the nineties, like, you know,

839
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: awesome that Again, going back to the idea of being

840
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: directed by another actor, was that something that was Did

841
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 1: you find that to be I don't want to say

842
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: better process and just you know, someone who's a dire

843
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: But it.

844
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 3: Just depends on it depends on the person really.

845
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you you do assume that an

846
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: actor is going to know a little bit more about what.

847
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 3: It's like to be out there.

848
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, I always thought, oh my god,

849
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: you know, they it's it's insanity.

850
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 3: You know.

851
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: Now we're in a close up and it's like it's

852
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: just I can't I can't hide, you know, it's like

853
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 2: it's not a two shot, it's not a master it's

854
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: like fuck, you know, like it all came down to this, Yeah,

855
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: am I ready? And I think an actor gets that

856
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: maybe more than any other director could get, you know.

857
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, directors, you know, great directors

858
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: come in all shapes and sizes, and often it's not

859
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: till later you see the genius that they were doing,

860
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: you know, and the way they.

861
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: Put it together. But with Meg.

862
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: It came to me as this script that she was

863
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: adapting from a play, and I was just flattered to

864
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: be in a movie with Meg when I when I

865
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 2: received it, and then we just worked on it for

866
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: like almost like nine months, just doing zoom reading through

867
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: it because when we shot it, we only had twenty

868
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: days and it was really it was like a place

869
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 2: so you had to be off book. I mean you

870
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: couldn't because we had like five page walking talks and

871
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: shit like that, and you if you didn't show up

872
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: knowing it, it was not gonna fly. So Meg had

873
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: a real sympathy for the craziness of being out there

874
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 2: alone and all that stuff, and she was.

875
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: I mean, I had just had the best experience working

876
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 3: on that. That nice. Yeah, I mean she's become a friend,

877
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 3: you know, so.

878
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's sort of the benefit of it all.

879
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to hear Phil better. I just feel

880
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when you were talking about, is

881
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: the generation of people now that have so much shame

882
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: looking at social media is they don't have any see

883
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: others to have or look like when most of it's manipulated.

884
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: Not This is going to be a real interesting art for.

885
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it's also talking. It's not only talking

886
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: to performers, but it's talking to people like Gabor Mate. Yes,

887
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: you know, people who actually work in the world of

888
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: shame addiction.

889
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: Uh, what have you like?

890
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 2: Experts right, because I'm no expert, like we're we're not experts, no,

891
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 2: but we're we want experts to come in like I'm

892
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: an expert on me whatever.

893
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 3: Like other people come in they're experts on themselves.

894
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: But I like people to come in who have actually

895
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: made their lives work in this area.

896
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: I can't wait to listen to it. So everyone, you

897
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: have to so big, David, thank you so much.

898
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 3: You're welcome.

899
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me come up to Malibill and

900
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: meet you in your world.

901
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: And yeah you are a living room.

902
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: Yeah see your living room. You're you know. I think

903
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: one of the things that I just would like to

904
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: say to the people that have pulled up chairs, you're

905
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,959
Speaker 1: a very gentle person. You have a lot of very warm,

906
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: gentle energy, and so thank you for Table for two

907
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeart Radio seven three

908
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce Bosi

909
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: and Nathan King. Our supervising producer and editor is Dylan Fagan.

910
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: Table for two is researched and written by Jack Sullivan.

911
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: Our sound engineers are mel B Klein, Jess Krainich, Evan Taylor,

912
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: and Jesse Funk. Our music supervisor is Randall Poster. Our

913
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: talent booking is done by Jane Sarkin. Table for two's

914
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: social media manager is Gracie Wiener. Special thanks to Amy Sugarman,

915
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: Uni Scherer, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter Graber. For

916
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

917
00:43:52,719 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.