Speaker 1: I guess I'm starting this one. Hi, welcome to take
Speaker 1: it happen here. It's a show. If you're listening to
Speaker 1: this episode, you probably listen to the last one. You
Speaker 1: know what it's about. Yeah, please do don't start. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess you could start with this one because this
Speaker 1: one is sort of wildly different than the last one.
Speaker 1: But that's when we're rewriting it so they a'll survive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. No one gets executed this episode. Yes,
Speaker 1: that is that is a win. And the cosmists come,
Speaker 1: The Russian cosmists come, and they resurrect at least Knikofumico
Speaker 1: um the rest, give or take whatever. Maybe the children
Speaker 1: could be resurrected. That's how I would prioritize it in
Speaker 1: that order. That makes sense. Yeah. Um. And that voice
Speaker 1: you're hearing is Margaret Killjoy, host of Cool, host of
Speaker 1: CPW d C. Yes, Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,
Speaker 1: Cool medio podcast that is launching its first episode on
Speaker 1: May second, and episodes are every Monday and Wednesday. I
Speaker 1: did it? Okay? Who that's true? All the things are
Speaker 1: true except the cosmist part. Yeah, the cosmists, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe they'll still pull it off all right,
Speaker 1: as as if yet, So we're gonna go back a
Speaker 1: little bit. Um. We ended last episode with everyone sort
Speaker 1: of dead. Um. But the reason that also didn't wipe
Speaker 1: out the the anarchist movement was that there's that does
Speaker 1: another sort of wing of it, and the other wing
Speaker 1: of it is in in nineteen eighteen, labor movement in
Speaker 1: Japan re emerges, and it re emerges because there's the war,
Speaker 1: like Japan fights to over one, and there's just like
Speaker 1: mass inflation and deprivation, and so even though striking is
Speaker 1: like unbelievably illegal, people do it anyways because the underdative
Speaker 1: is just starving to death. And so there's this reformist
Speaker 1: trade union that eventually becomes Japanese Confederation of Labor that
Speaker 1: swells and numbers to about thirty thousand people, and actually
Speaker 1: mentioned like thirty thousand people is like, it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like that big for a union. I think this is
Speaker 1: the biggest any union is going to get in this period.
Speaker 1: I think this union might get slightly bigger than that,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, most of the unions don't crack twenty
Speaker 1: k because the size of the Japanese industrial working class
Speaker 1: isn't that big and also the amount of oppression is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: But you know, having having thirty thousand people in your
Speaker 1: union means that your union is now the site of
Speaker 1: Japanese intra left conflict, which is wonderful. People there is
Speaker 1: actually like people up. Yeah, it's great. There's like, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a period where everyone kind of gets along, like
Speaker 1: like all of there was like everyone of the Japanese
Speaker 1: Left knows each other, like all they're all dating each other,
Speaker 1: Like this is true, Like you know, we've been talking
Speaker 1: about all the interest stating each other. The anarchist, the
Speaker 1: communists all dating each other, like the reformists are also
Speaker 1: dating each other, Like they're all sort of like everyone
Speaker 1: knows each other, and for like a bit they're sort
Speaker 1: of able to get along. Ah. But with with with
Speaker 1: the the Japanese Confederation of Labor. This last for like
Speaker 1: one year, and the anarchists and the Bolsheviks have split
Speaker 1: over the question of the USSR. After the anarchists published
Speaker 1: like Emma Goldman writing about how it's bad actually, and
Speaker 1: suddenly these two factions are like yeah, these factions are
Speaker 1: like fighting tooth and nail for control of like the
Speaker 1: entire left because like these these these groups are like
Speaker 1: the anarchists and the communists are in every social movement,
Speaker 1: like they're they're in there in labor, they're in the
Speaker 1: feminist movements, there in this movement they're like we haven't
Speaker 1: really talked about, but it's going on the background of
Speaker 1: all of this, which is the burak Kuman liberation movement
Speaker 1: on the burk Kuman or this like this like hereditary class.
Speaker 1: I'm pronouncing that extremely badly and I apologize, um, but
Speaker 1: the hereditary class and like the old fuel system, which
Speaker 1: is like technically abolished in the ladies and hundreds, but
Speaker 1: like discrimination against them continues. It's it's very similar to
Speaker 1: like like the untouchable like touchables in India. And so
Speaker 1: they have this sort of movements and the anarchists back it,
Speaker 1: and the communists like waffle on it because the Bolsheviks,
Speaker 1: it takes to like a while before they're like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: We're we're fully backing this now. And so yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that gets wrapped up in this this giant battle
Speaker 1: for the control of the left, and the battle for
Speaker 1: the control of the left leads to like one of
Speaker 1: history's most common alliances which is Bolsheviks allying with reformists
Speaker 1: who like also favor like centralized control to fight the anarchists.
Speaker 1: You don't want centralized control. Yeah, there there are new things, yea.
Speaker 1: And in labor movement, this this plays out in this
Speaker 1: battle over like where power is supposed to be in
Speaker 1: a union confederation. So you know, the question basically is
Speaker 1: it supposed to be in the federation bureaucracy like the
Speaker 1: people are like the sort of high level of the
Speaker 1: bureaucracy it sself, or is it supposed to be in
Speaker 1: the unions who are like the part of federation. And
Speaker 1: and this has real consequences, you know, like in a
Speaker 1: lot of sort of centralized union federations, like the central
Speaker 1: union bureaucracy of the people who decide if you can
Speaker 1: strike or not m hm. And you know, this is
Speaker 1: extremely useful to both reformers bureaucrats who want to make
Speaker 1: sure nobody goes on strike because they have their deal
Speaker 1: with the capitalists and they don't want to refolution happen.
Speaker 1: And it's also very useful for the Bolsheviks who want
Speaker 1: to make sure they can purge anyone who they don't like,
Speaker 1: and also want to make sure the Union movement just
Speaker 1: like an extension of their politics. And so there's this
Speaker 1: huge battle and it ends with basically like both the
Speaker 1: Bolsheviks and the reformists pull out of the Union. Whoa,
Speaker 1: so the anarchists win, Oh yes, sort of, Well they
Speaker 1: do appear in victory. There's like nothing les Yeah, well
Speaker 1: it's not there's nothing. So like twenty tho members go
Speaker 1: with the reformists, like twelve thou go with the Bolsheviks,
Speaker 1: about eight thousand go with the anarchists. So it's not
Speaker 1: the best, but they rebuild and and into this phrase
Speaker 1: steps arguably Japan's greatest anarchist theorists of this period, Hottes Shoeso.
Speaker 1: And this guy is a character like he's he's he's
Speaker 1: barely known in Japan. I mean, there was a sort
Speaker 1: of like renaissance in how does shoes a scholarship when
Speaker 1: this one guy named John Krupp wrote this book called
Speaker 1: how to Shoeso? How does Shuzo? And Pure Anarchism and
Speaker 1: Interwar Japan, which is a mouthful of a title. But
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep plugging this because like this is
Speaker 1: the book that made me an anarchist. Like this is
Speaker 1: like I checked this book out from my library and
Speaker 1: I read it and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm an anarchist now. So yeah, he has he has
Speaker 1: like A because she has a wild story. Um. He's
Speaker 1: born in He's born in Japan in December six and
Speaker 1: he sort of like bounces around like different manual labor
Speaker 1: jobs in Tokyo, and like at one point he he
Speaker 1: he wants to be like A. He tries to be
Speaker 1: like I don't know if it's a long shot. He
Speaker 1: wants to be like a sailor. So he gets on
Speaker 1: a boat and he's gonna be a sailor, and then
Speaker 1: he after like one sale ride to Taiwan, he immediately
Speaker 1: decides he doesn't want to be a sailor anymore. So
Speaker 1: he just gets off the boat and Eason doesn't come back.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I would do if I decided,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like that job, especially like the nineteen like twenties,
Speaker 1: that jobs, he's awful. Yeah, You're like, I want adventure,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, adventure means bad things happen.
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, I I guess I understand why
Speaker 1: all these people are anarchists, because like that is a
Speaker 1: terrible job. But yeah, so she so winds up sort
Speaker 1: of just like wandering around Taiwan. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that happens when he's wanting around Taiwan, by the way,
Speaker 1: is a Japanese colony at this point, um okay. And
Speaker 1: while he's wandering around Taiwan, he becomes a Christian and
Speaker 1: he like goes to school, it's like a theologian, but
Speaker 1: he drops out, but then he somehow still becomes a
Speaker 1: pastor because I don't know, this guy's career is wild. No,
Speaker 1: she's always not like a normal pastor. He rapidly starts
Speaker 1: pissing off like everyone around him because he's like every
Speaker 1: all of his sermons are just him and taggetizing rich
Speaker 1: people and preaching this like very very left wedged in
Speaker 1: the Gospel to be like the read the Bible. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's incredible that there's a great quote from Haweshizu and
Speaker 1: Pierre anarchist of it Into War Japan about his time
Speaker 1: as a pastor, from like someone who was there, it
Speaker 1: was Pastor Hottes sermons were superbs, so much so that
Speaker 1: I thought it was a shame that more people were
Speaker 1: not there to hear them. It was like the Bible
Speaker 1: talking in the spirit of pure socialism. And one of
Speaker 1: my friends admired Pastor Hottes so much that the asid
Speaker 1: to celebrate his marriage. Yeah, and you know this like
Speaker 1: this does not make around. Yeah yeah, he say, Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny because he starts like as a Christian, right,
Speaker 1: but like he just like progressively keeps getting more and
Speaker 1: more left wing and keeps realizing that like, okay, so
Speaker 1: there's the Kingdom of God in heaven, right, but like
Speaker 1: what if we did that here? And like as he's
Speaker 1: getting like as he's pissing off more of the church,
Speaker 1: um and as like they're they're they're in fighting, gets bigger,
Speaker 1: he's becoming just more and more of an anarchist. And
Speaker 1: by the end he just like gets up. He gets
Speaker 1: booted out by his church and he's just like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm anarchist propagandist now, and sow four he just like
Speaker 1: leaves and he's like, well, I'm anarchists now. Um, and
Speaker 1: Shizo becomes what's known as a pure anarchist. And this
Speaker 1: is something that is like entirely unique to Japan that
Speaker 1: like there there's nothing there's this doesn't exist anywhere else. Um,
Speaker 1: and this is different than like basically every other anarchist
Speaker 1: theorist and movement in Japan until this point has been
Speaker 1: like something you can find parallels with other anarchist movements
Speaker 1: around the globe, Like there are nihilists and lots of
Speaker 1: countries as egoists everywhere like their cynicalists literally in every
Speaker 1: country has ever existed, and they mostly sort of believe
Speaker 1: the same things. Um, you know, and you get some
Speaker 1: like like oh yessaki is like combination of egoism and
Speaker 1: syndicalism is like it's cool, but like I like that idea. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a good idea, but it's also not like it's
Speaker 1: like he's he's not he's not like he's not the
Speaker 1: first person to ever do this right. And like the
Speaker 1: japaneseynicalist movement is is built in the molde of like
Speaker 1: the French syndicalists in the CGT, which is this big union.
Speaker 1: H actually they're still around today there so in like
Speaker 1: the very early eighteen hundreds they were there. They were
Speaker 1: sort of a narcost Nicolas union and like nighte to
Speaker 1: know six they have this famous charter about like anarchists,
Speaker 1: but then they go reformist and they like they vote
Speaker 1: for World War We're one and now they're famous for
Speaker 1: there's been like twelve things that probably could have been
Speaker 1: a revolution in France if the c GT had ever
Speaker 1: a single time went to the barricades. And they never
Speaker 1: do Whi's never ever, that's like their whole thing, Like
Speaker 1: like they sat out by sixty eight, Like that's yeah,
Speaker 1: this union. Yeah, and they sat out by sixty eight.
Speaker 1: It's like it's incredible, but you know it's the But
Speaker 1: you know, in like nineteen know six, right, the Japanese
Speaker 1: are looking at like cyniccals looking at this like oh
Speaker 1: my god, this just this union has like millions of
Speaker 1: people in it, like it's enormous. It's a cynicals union.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and like you know, they they the
Speaker 1: Jamans anarchists do is sort of their standard cynicalist things
Speaker 1: like that they're building up democratic unions. They're like working
Speaker 1: cords in general, strike the season mused their production. They're
Speaker 1: like fighting for a society or production is run by
Speaker 1: workers themselves. Blah blah blah bla I should blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. That's actually it's it's cool. It's fine, but
Speaker 1: pure anarchism is not that I'm dying to know what
Speaker 1: pure anarchism is. This new anarchism just dropped. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a it's it's a version of
Speaker 1: her communism. But like what if you like really really
Speaker 1: rigorously applied in arcole communism and and this is this
Speaker 1: is the thing. It doesn't exist anywhere else because everywhere,
Speaker 1: like in the West and in Latin America, like syndicalism
Speaker 1: and anarchist and anarcho communism just like fuse to the
Speaker 1: point where like they're not really They're like, but there's
Speaker 1: not really they're not really separate tendency like nobody's written
Speaker 1: in archo communist theory, and like a hundred years like
Speaker 1: like they start, you know, they've basically ceased to be
Speaker 1: separate tendencies. But in Japan, the cyndicicaliss of the and
Speaker 1: comps like fighting it out to the death, and this
Speaker 1: this produces pure anarchism and it rules can talk about
Speaker 1: what it is because it's both wonderful and incredibly silly
Speaker 1: at the same time. So okay, So so to understand
Speaker 1: what they're arguing about, because this is this is this
Speaker 1: this causes like a huge fracture in the annext movements. Um,
Speaker 1: I think we need to sort of like go into
Speaker 1: like the vulgar barkist conception of class structure that's kind
Speaker 1: of shared by the cyndicalists. So okay, okay, so you're you're,
Speaker 1: you're okay. The important thing about this is that, like
Speaker 1: this doesn't work at your pan like the vulgar theory
Speaker 1: of like marcutis class structure, right, is that like, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're supposed to have the great industrial proletariat, Like
Speaker 1: it's that's supposed to become a majority of the population.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be unified and organized by like the
Speaker 1: discipline of the factory system, and the entire world is
Speaker 1: supposed to reduce to two classes, like the borgewisi and
Speaker 1: the proletariat, like one class of people who have nothing
Speaker 1: to sell but their labor. One class of people who
Speaker 1: exist purely too like extract wealth from people because like
Speaker 1: you who you entirely supportless of my owning things. And
Speaker 1: you know, eventually these are supposed to, like if you
Speaker 1: if you read your communist manifesto, Eventually these two classes
Speaker 1: are supposed to like meet themselves in like a final
Speaker 1: conflict or the proletariat defeats it's called yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, the proporteria defeats them, and then they
Speaker 1: abolish the conditions of their own existence as a class
Speaker 1: and you get stateless class lists. But in this society,
Speaker 1: it's like a free association of workers. And this is
Speaker 1: what communism is. And famously this never happened. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: about the immortal science. Yeah, you know they well they
Speaker 1: want the wortal science. Yeah, this, this is the This
Speaker 1: is the problem the immortal science is that one, instead
Speaker 1: of unifying the industrial proletariat, capitalism like divides it and
Speaker 1: just sort of like like literally spatially like kicks them
Speaker 1: into suburbs, and you can get this sort of like
Speaker 1: the system where instead of like unifying everyone into one class,
Speaker 1: everyone is now this like completely alienated like boomer living
Speaker 1: in a suburb, even if it's still work in a factory.
Speaker 1: And the other problem is that there's never just two classes.
Speaker 1: And this is a problem that like, yeah, all the
Speaker 1: other ones are our enemies. Yeah, this worried too, you know,
Speaker 1: but this is a real problem, right because like the
Speaker 1: like the marxis run into this in Russia where it's
Speaker 1: like okay, so we we did our thing, we did
Speaker 1: our urban poultry and revolution, but like there's all these
Speaker 1: peasants and they don't like us because we keep taking
Speaker 1: their granted gunpoint and but but you know that you
Speaker 1: have you have this one problem and and popular, yeah,
Speaker 1: it goes great, right if not nothing bad ever happens,
Speaker 1: they don't famously have to kill enormal members of these people.
Speaker 1: But then like you know, there's something weird happens, which
Speaker 1: is in China, Stalin managed to get like the entire
Speaker 1: or like the entire urban Chinese working class like builitic
Speaker 1: working class killed, and so Mao has to like make
Speaker 1: a revolution with peasants, and so you know, peasants become
Speaker 1: the sort of like you know, this this sort of
Speaker 1: like this, this is what the actual refolution strtuct of
Speaker 1: communism wants up being. Like from the China Columbia, it's
Speaker 1: these peasants. But like you know, okay, so you're your
Speaker 1: three of the industrial politariats already down the toilet. And
Speaker 1: this is what Shuzo is reacting to. Like he looks
Speaker 1: at Japanese society and there's like five people who you
Speaker 1: wage labor. Mostly there's this inor was like fourteen million
Speaker 1: people who are tenant farmers who are like trying to
Speaker 1: support their families and these like tiny plots of rented land.
Speaker 1: But you know, and like in center Marxist theories like well, okay,
Speaker 1: these people will inevitably be absorbed into capitalism, right, but
Speaker 1: they will be driven by competition or whatever to the market.
Speaker 1: But like they're not, it's not happening. They're just they're
Speaker 1: sitting there and they're still just really poor in paying
Speaker 1: their landlords. And yeah, yeah, well you just gotta wait
Speaker 1: for all of Japan to be like annihilated. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's going great. But and it's also
Speaker 1: like there's all these other like classes to you, like
Speaker 1: there's there's these classes of like there's just like petty
Speaker 1: traders for example, or like like low level like really
Speaker 1: low level government officials like like you know, you're like
Speaker 1: like a clerk for example, who just don't fit into
Speaker 1: this sort of class schem at all, Like if if
Speaker 1: marks some things about like like small like I don't know,
Speaker 1: people who like cut wood and then go into a
Speaker 1: town and sell it. Like they're like, well, there's can
Speaker 1: these people are prete Bogwa like their reactionaries, and there's
Speaker 1: this whole history of like anarchists organizing people like this
Speaker 1: who marks just sort of like steer out, Like Bolivia
Speaker 1: has this where like anarchists organized these like these indigenous
Speaker 1: like they're not really these indigenous artisans whose things like
Speaker 1: they go to market and they saw their craft. And
Speaker 1: the Marxists were just like, how do we care about
Speaker 1: the people? Like why yeah, workers, And it always seems
Speaker 1: like the better I don't know, whenever I was presented
Speaker 1: with the basic analysis of like, okay, we've got the
Speaker 1: proletariat who have terrible lives and factories, and then you
Speaker 1: have the lump and proletariat who refuse that kind of
Speaker 1: work and are like beggars and thieves and people doing
Speaker 1: work outside of the traditional system or whatever. And then
Speaker 1: you have the petty bourgeoisie who are like you know,
Speaker 1: owned stores or artisans or whatever. And then you have
Speaker 1: the bourgeoisie over it. And it is always funny to
Speaker 1: me because I look at I'm like, well, clearly, the
Speaker 1: only ones that would be worth being would be lumping
Speaker 1: proletariat or pet like they're the only ones to get
Speaker 1: to have any fun like, yeah, you know, and I think, like, like,
Speaker 1: this is a problem that that chooso sees. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna read part of um Krupt's book about his solution
Speaker 1: to this because I think it's really interesting. Um. Given
Speaker 1: the failure of the available methods of class analysis to
Speaker 1: capture the subtleties of Japan's social structure, how To developed
Speaker 1: the notion of the propertyless masses as an alternative concept
Speaker 1: of the proletariat. That the propertyless masses was a wide
Speaker 1: ranching term which encompassed tenant farmers, small traders, petty officials, artisans,
Speaker 1: and even wage laborers when they are prepared to forsake
Speaker 1: their preoccupation with narrowly defending advantages that accompanied their urban
Speaker 1: lifestyle and we're ready to throw in their lot with
Speaker 1: the other oppressed strata. Yeah, that makes sense. That's just
Speaker 1: the you know, it's the like or's just the haves
Speaker 1: and have nots. It's like, okay, well it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of but but there's there's a crucial difference here, which
Speaker 1: is that like, okay, so the other like the really
Speaker 1: big thing about the pure anarchists that they don't believe
Speaker 1: in class struggle, okay, and the reason why they don't
Speaker 1: believe in class struggle is that they think that, Okay,
Speaker 1: so they look at the history of the union movement, right,
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, so has the union movement ended capitalism?
Speaker 1: It's like no, so like okay, what what does it
Speaker 1: actually do? And the answer is it gets people slightly
Speaker 1: more money under capitalism, which is nice too, yeah, which
Speaker 1: which is nice. But it's also like shooes so like
Speaker 1: adopted tube that there's no other Japanese anarchists who who
Speaker 1: has this beta for It's like he he compares it
Speaker 1: to like people fighting inside of like a bandit gang,
Speaker 1: where it's like, okay, so if you have you have
Speaker 1: like fight, like the bosses of the bandit gang are
Speaker 1: obviously exploiting like the lower level people in the bandit gang.
Speaker 1: But you know, I even even if even if the
Speaker 1: lower level people in this bandit gang like take over,
Speaker 1: they're not actually gonna stop being a bandit gang, right,
Speaker 1: It's just that the the distribution of where the bandit
Speaker 1: gang wealth is going changes. And this is a big
Speaker 1: thing for for for the purannicist because the puor anchists
Speaker 1: are you know, they're there looking at the industrial working
Speaker 1: classes like this is tiny and they're they're all exploiting
Speaker 1: the countryside. Hm. And so because of that, like they
Speaker 1: they look at this, they look at the union movement,
Speaker 1: and they look at it at like class struggle, like
Speaker 1: classical TM like class struggle, and they're like, well, this
Speaker 1: doesn't cause a revolution. All this does is just like
Speaker 1: sort of reorients like who's in power inside of Uh
Speaker 1: that's what the Bolsheviks did, right, Yeah, But but it's
Speaker 1: it's not just what the bulls they applies to the Bolsheviks,
Speaker 1: but like it's also like there's analysis of what a
Speaker 1: union is that you're like class struggles just defending your
Speaker 1: position uder capitalism, but you're also fighting very specifically narrowly
Speaker 1: for your class. Right, So if you're like a factory worker, right,
Speaker 1: you're fighting for you and the other factory workers. You're
Speaker 1: not fighting for like I don't know, like a tenant farm.
Speaker 1: But you're not you know, even fighting from like for
Speaker 1: like the guy down the tree to BIG's bread. It's
Speaker 1: like you're you know, the these these things that are
Speaker 1: like that are but they look like instruments of class struggles,
Speaker 1: like your workers council, your unions or soviets like they
Speaker 1: don't actually get rid of class. It's just now another
Speaker 1: class has power. And it doesn't matter if it's sort
Speaker 1: of like this is what they're argument is like, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it's like democratic, It doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: it's like you know, like they're they're there's no difference
Speaker 1: in how the actual eventually the class and amics will
Speaker 1: play out. It doesn't matter if it's like you know,
Speaker 1: like Lenin making like Stalin making himself dictator, or you
Speaker 1: have a bunch of democratic like Soviets, because they're both
Speaker 1: so intrimented class power and they're both sort of just
Speaker 1: going to reproduce this, this whole system. And yeah, and
Speaker 1: so they have this thing that they counterpose, which is
Speaker 1: like class struggle is just about what stuff is happening
Speaker 1: inside the system. But that's different revolution, which is like
Speaker 1: destroying this the system entirely. And this is where you
Speaker 1: get into his stuff about the division of labor, which
Speaker 1: is I think it's really interesting because it I think
Speaker 1: this this sphere of pure anarchism got to a bunch
Speaker 1: of critiques of stuff that people have gotten to now,
Speaker 1: but they got to it in where Okay, so she's
Speaker 1: like one of his big things is that like the
Speaker 1: division of labor is inherently exploitative because it like it
Speaker 1: destroys sort of rural community living and it replaces it
Speaker 1: with the centralization of expertise and centralization of power. And
Speaker 1: he also thinks that like science is like a capitalist
Speaker 1: engine that's used to like create the division of labor,
Speaker 1: and then it's used to create like mechanization, and it's
Speaker 1: used to create like labor exploitation. Yeah, this that sounds
Speaker 1: like modern A lot of like stuff that I read
Speaker 1: more modern. Yeah, yeah, yeah, except this is like they're
Speaker 1: doing this in like like nineteen twenties seven. Else is
Speaker 1: a capitalist engine of exploitation products and surface the podcast
Speaker 1: Industrial Complex, It's true, and we're back with more things
Speaker 1: that are exploitative and the theoretically theoretically yes, yes, but
Speaker 1: we we we we have we have to get through.
Speaker 1: We have to get through the last exploitative thing, which
Speaker 1: is the thing. I talked a bit about this earlier.
Speaker 1: But like the Puranicists argued that like cities inherently are
Speaker 1: this concentration of wealthy resources and power, and so like
Speaker 1: farmers and workers need to work together to destroy all
Speaker 1: forms of power, including cities. And this sounds a lot
Speaker 1: like primitive. Is yeah, it does, although you know, they
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be like wrapping the farmers, and I think
Speaker 1: I think primitives might be the wrong term. But it's
Speaker 1: definitely a lot of like the anti tech stuff, and
Speaker 1: well it's it's interesting, Okay. So they have they have
Speaker 1: like they threat this needle where so like there are
Speaker 1: people in this period who want to just go back
Speaker 1: to pure rural grarianism and don't want their to technology,
Speaker 1: and the pure anarchists are like, no, we still want technology,
Speaker 1: but we don't want the division of labor. So they're like,
Speaker 1: we like our raping machines so we don't have to
Speaker 1: work as much more more farming. We just don't want
Speaker 1: everyone to live in apartments. Yeah, I mean even the
Speaker 1: reaping machine. I don't know, Like it's kind of unclear
Speaker 1: to me how this is exactly supposed to work, because
Speaker 1: like we'll get into this. I guess we can just
Speaker 1: get into this now, which is it, Like, okay, so
Speaker 1: they really don't like the division of labor because they
Speaker 1: think the division of labor like, well, okay, they have
Speaker 1: they have like there's like three critiques of but one
Speaker 1: is that like when you have a division of labor,
Speaker 1: labor becomes like mechanized industrialized. And when that happens, um
Speaker 1: labor because like it gets reduced to just like a
Speaker 1: cog you put in a machine m hm. And they
Speaker 1: say this is like this is like an inherent like
Speaker 1: thing that happens with labor specializations. You just end up
Speaker 1: like being a person who makes you want repetitive moving
Speaker 1: a factory over and over again, like you're not free
Speaker 1: because of this um. And they also argue that like
Speaker 1: specialization means that people only care about like labor that
Speaker 1: they do and so this gives you like an identity
Speaker 1: that that divides workers from one sector, like say if
Speaker 1: you're if you're you know, you're like a coal miner, right,
Speaker 1: your daily experience is so utterly different than a baker.
Speaker 1: And it's not just like your experience, it's like it's
Speaker 1: like your knowledge is different. The other person is not gonna,
Speaker 1: like baker is not going to understand what you're doing. Um.
Speaker 1: And you keep wanting to argue against this political position
Speaker 1: that no, no, that misunderstands the nature of specialization at all,
Speaker 1: you know. But then I'm like, all right, I can't
Speaker 1: go back and convince these people. Yeah, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: like I think, okay, this is I'm gonna, I'm gonna,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put on my my, my marks, my like
Speaker 1: weird left calm mars, noise and critique not a platform,
Speaker 1: which is not they actually wanted as a platform, but
Speaker 1: like I think it would have been a great critique
Speaker 1: and not a very good platform. Yeah, they're the platform. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think there's there's the interesting
Speaker 1: elements of it. Like they have this argument that like, okay,
Speaker 1: so if if you have your like your your syndicalists,
Speaker 1: like society right where Okay, so you have a bunch
Speaker 1: of like you have a bunch of like coal miners,
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of people who like make pots
Speaker 1: and hands, but you need to coordinate your labor, okay
Speaker 1: because because you you have you have like specialization, you
Speaker 1: have branches of labor. And their argument is that, okay,
Speaker 1: so well the city clues way you do this. You
Speaker 1: have coordinating committees, right you you like elect a person
Speaker 1: you like, send them to a coordinating council, and the
Speaker 1: coordinating council like coordinates stuff. And she was just like,
Speaker 1: well that's just gonna she those like things like that's
Speaker 1: just gonna turn into a state. Like you're just gonna
Speaker 1: create a permanent class, even even if you rotate people.
Speaker 1: You're you're you're creating an administrative body that's gonna like
Speaker 1: rebuild the state again. And yeah, like okay, like I
Speaker 1: than this like shrugging gesture that the audience cans like yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I I don't, okay. So, like I
Speaker 1: don't think he's right about like most of this, Like
Speaker 1: I think he's sort of wrong about like almost all
Speaker 1: of it. The thing the thing that's stuck with me,
Speaker 1: so when I read this is like his specific critique
Speaker 1: of syndicalism, which is that it maintains like the structure
Speaker 1: of the old world. Because if you're a syndicalist and
Speaker 1: your your society is based on unions running their workplaces,
Speaker 1: then you've maintained the division of labor, but you've also
Speaker 1: maintained like the basic like geographic, physical, technological, and organizational
Speaker 1: structure of capitalism, like all of the like all of
Speaker 1: that stuff is still in the same place, and you're
Speaker 1: still sort of like going there to do your job.
Speaker 1: And I think there is an interesting sort of like
Speaker 1: like I think there's a genuine interesting critique there of yeah,
Speaker 1: like how how do you make sure that you aren't
Speaker 1: just sort of reproducing that stuff? And like like I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like the critique of why would you
Speaker 1: want to build a society likes structured along the lines
Speaker 1: of production, Like why why do you want to structure
Speaker 1: your society around work? Like that's awful. I I like
Speaker 1: that about the pure anarchists, where they were kind of like,
Speaker 1: let's let's let's throw away the Marxist ship for a
Speaker 1: minute and like just actually like figure out what we want,
Speaker 1: and like, I I like that about it, But I
Speaker 1: I dislike the idea of like, well it's it's it
Speaker 1: would be my problem with syndicalism, and most of the
Speaker 1: syndicalists I met believe in syndicalism as a method and
Speaker 1: not an end result. Right, um, it's a way of
Speaker 1: building workers power, not a way to create a society.
Speaker 1: But but if syndicalists were like everyone must wake up
Speaker 1: and go to their work job and then make eight widgets,
Speaker 1: but it's collectively determined which widgets that you make, right,
Speaker 1: like funk that. But also if it was like everyone
Speaker 1: goes and wakes up and goes to their collective farm
Speaker 1: and maybe we use raping machines and maybe we don't.
Speaker 1: And it's just like I get so unexcited by It's
Speaker 1: like one of the reasons that like a lot of
Speaker 1: the like nitpicky branches of anarchism don't they interest me,
Speaker 1: but I don't like subscribe to any of them, is
Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, what if some people like this
Speaker 1: ship some people like this ship like and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe they're could be fucking different. Imagine that we could
Speaker 1: have a plurality of economic models stems. But you know whatever, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm now arguing with that people who I probably this
Speaker 1: is interesting, Like, well, I don't know, because these guys
Speaker 1: like they they have like the maoist thing going on,
Speaker 1: where like they will like attack other leftist groups who
Speaker 1: like don't like follow their line. And so this is
Speaker 1: where this whole thing is wild, because it was one
Speaker 1: of the other things, like the the pure anarchists are
Speaker 1: like completely convinced that syndicalism is like a sort of
Speaker 1: like well they think it's it's just like it's not
Speaker 1: an anarchist thing. It's just like a tendency to labor movement.
Speaker 1: And they also think that like it's basically like a
Speaker 1: bastardized form of Marxism because they're not like entirely wrong
Speaker 1: about either of those things. But yeah, except in a
Speaker 1: different places and times. Yeah, but it's like the thing,
Speaker 1: the thing that they have. But it like because they're
Speaker 1: they're completely convinced that syndicalism will inevitably just like turn
Speaker 1: into like Soviet communism. It's like it's incredibly silly. Um,
Speaker 1: But like like this, you know, I like, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, like they are kind of inventing a lot
Speaker 1: of the sort of like like they're they're inventing a
Speaker 1: lot of the sort of like some okay, some bad
Speaker 1: arguments about like specialization and stuff, like like some anti
Speaker 1: work stuff too, that like is going to be around later.
Speaker 1: They're also inventing a lot of stuff that's like and
Speaker 1: you know, initially this kind of like new theory doesn't
Speaker 1: have this doesn't have an enormous effect. Um. In six,
Speaker 1: the Federation of Black Youth or COCODA and has its
Speaker 1: first public meeting, and they have a bunch of cool slogans.
Speaker 1: The the slogans rolled they have the emancipation of workers
Speaker 1: must be carried out by the workers themselves. We insist
Speaker 1: on libertarian federation, destroy the political movement, get rid of
Speaker 1: reject the Poltarian party, get rid of professional activists with
Speaker 1: all oppressive laws and ordinances. That is an entirely based platform. Yeah, sweet,
Speaker 1: it's it's good. Yeah. And you know there were things
Speaker 1: despite the fact that it's called the Federation of Black Youth,
Speaker 1: this is like not a youth. I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: there's like youth in it, but like it's it's this
Speaker 1: thing's backed by like remember those those printers unions that
Speaker 1: I was talking about last episode that I was like, Hi,
Speaker 1: you have like set up. So they're all heavily involved
Speaker 1: in this um and they do a bunch of cool
Speaker 1: labor stuff, like they get involved in, like, uh, there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of tram worker strikes to get involved in.
Speaker 1: The they're in this, uh the Japanese Musical Instrument Company strike,
Speaker 1: which is like there's like over a thousand people on
Speaker 1: strike for like over a hundred days, and there's there's
Speaker 1: this great split where like so the leadership of the
Speaker 1: union is Bolshevik, but like a bunch of the like
Speaker 1: a bunch of the ordinary people in the union are
Speaker 1: anarchists and so you have that there's there's like there's
Speaker 1: this fun tension going around there. They're they're they're they're
Speaker 1: doing the stuff. Um and then the anarchists form um
Speaker 1: Zengoku Dieterrand, which is the All Japanese Libertarian Federation of
Speaker 1: Labor Unions, which is a it's a federation of twenty
Speaker 1: five unions. These are the Pierre anarchists that you're talking
Speaker 1: about that are doing all this. So sorry at this
Speaker 1: point they haven't split yet, okay, because it was like
Speaker 1: this sounds like all the stuff that they said that
Speaker 1: they don't want to do. Yeah, well, this is like
Speaker 1: the other the other wild thing about this is that like, okay,
Speaker 1: so the entirety of like of like Piannicis theory, right,
Speaker 1: is about how like unions don't do revolutions and that
Speaker 1: class struggle, but like they still do strikes, like they
Speaker 1: still do all the normal stuff. It's kind of wild, Okay,
Speaker 1: I kind of like that, yeah, you know, and like
Speaker 1: and and this that that's sort of how they're able
Speaker 1: to get along in this early period. And these unions like, okay,
Speaker 1: so there's like a lot of Printers unions in this
Speaker 1: because the Prints unions are just really anarchists. But there's
Speaker 1: there's like there's a tenant farmers union. There's a lotch
Speaker 1: of like rubber unions, and it grows to like fifteen
Speaker 1: workers almost immediately, and yeah, they' they're doing to a
Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff, like they they have they have
Speaker 1: these huge demonstrations in supporter of SACO and fnzetti uh
Speaker 1: to the US is killing for being narchists and also
Speaker 1: Italians just like yeah, the one time anti Italian racism
Speaker 1: was real and a hundred years ago, ship was real
Speaker 1: different than it is now and it doesn't yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And for for for one year, this like
Speaker 1: this works great, you know, like the yeah that the
Speaker 1: union's up to, like I think they get up to
Speaker 1: like thirty thousand members, like it gets pretty big. But
Speaker 1: then intense conflict between the syndicalists and the anarchac and
Speaker 1: the pure anarchists breakout. And this gets so bad so
Speaker 1: fast that like the International working Man's Association, which is
Speaker 1: the like like the giant international like Federation of Cynicalist
Speaker 1: Movements like sends them a letter that are like, hey,
Speaker 1: cynicalist anarcro communists get along every literally everywhere else on earth.
Speaker 1: Their Chilk. You guys like Chill and the anarcha communists
Speaker 1: in Cocadoran. Uh. Their response is you are fighting quote
Speaker 1: the Betrayer's opportunists and union imperialists in Zengoku Juran's ranks.
Speaker 1: I can't have nice things. Ye know, it's great, it
Speaker 1: gets better, it gets better. So they lose, yeah, because okay,
Speaker 1: look in the conference, so uh Senoka Juran which is
Speaker 1: the Union federation, like they have they have a conference,
Speaker 1: they have the yearly conference, and there's just like giant
Speaker 1: battle over like what the organizations platform is going to
Speaker 1: be a thing that doesn't matter at all, except it's
Speaker 1: a proxy ideological fight, and uh, both sides should start
Speaker 1: screaming at each other. And I'm gonna read this description
Speaker 1: from Ardashizo and Pyrannicas and Mento War Japan. Cocona and
Speaker 1: members barricaded the barrack to the anarchy the anarchist syndicolist
Speaker 1: jeering and cat calling them, and the proceedings degenerated to
Speaker 1: the level where it was almost impossible to hear the speeches. Eventually,
Speaker 1: the anarcho syn Nicholas decided they had had enough. Unflirling
Speaker 1: their black flags, they walked out of the hall to
Speaker 1: a chorus of taunts such as believers, blind, believers in
Speaker 1: Central authority, Bolsheviks, and betrayers, Oh my god, go over yourself.
Speaker 1: Oh my no, okay, to be fair to the pure anarchists,
Speaker 1: one of so, okay, a bunch of the cynicals, you
Speaker 1: can start leaving, and all one of them does actually
Speaker 1: join the Bolsheviks, but like all the other ones don't
Speaker 1: because they're not. And you get this period there's like
Speaker 1: they have like the Cynical List and that the puirenarchists
Speaker 1: of dueling magazines. Uh, there's won't call black flag. There's
Speaker 1: won't called black battle, and like so cocon Ran, which
Speaker 1: is like the youth mid thing, like the cynicalist and
Speaker 1: the anarchists are still in it together, and they like
Speaker 1: they start just like fighting each other in the street
Speaker 1: when they run into each other, because the the this
Speaker 1: is more oppressive than everyone getting murdered after the earthquake,
Speaker 1: not the jet side anarchist killing part. Yeah well, I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, yeah, it's it's like it's like well, you know,
Speaker 1: and like yeah, they What's interesting about this though, is
Speaker 1: that like the inucle communists, like when the union splits,
Speaker 1: like almost all of the people stay with the communists,
Speaker 1: even though the other communists like explicitly saying we're not
Speaker 1: fighting for like wage increases, we're just fighting revolution, and fine,
Speaker 1: I'm all right with that. Yeah. Well, but there's interesting
Speaker 1: stuff too where it's like like they're also so be
Speaker 1: because they have this thing that's like, okay, so that
Speaker 1: the urban workers are like exploiting the well, okay, the
Speaker 1: line about it's complicated because it's like they think the
Speaker 1: urban workers are exploiting the countryside, but they also don't
Speaker 1: think that the solution to it is to just like
Speaker 1: turn it the other way around. They think that like
Speaker 1: the workers and the tenant farmers just work together to
Speaker 1: like make the oppression go away, which is like a
Speaker 1: reasonable stance on it. Yeah, but it means that you
Speaker 1: know that they're interested in, like they're interested in the
Speaker 1: real movement in a way that like the other Japanese
Speaker 1: lefe stupents aren't. But unfortunately, you know, Okay, there's a
Speaker 1: big debate as to whether this split like actually like
Speaker 1: like how big a role this split had in the
Speaker 1: collapse of anarchism, because like bye bye by, like by
Speaker 1: like nineteen thirty one, like the fascists have just straight
Speaker 1: up taken over Manchuria. Like I think things have gotten
Speaker 1: so fascist that it's like it's unclear whether the split
Speaker 1: mattered at all. Yeah, um yeah, but you know, they
Speaker 1: run into this problem where like like cocul and like
Speaker 1: the state really hates them, and they all a bunch
Speaker 1: of them get arrested, and that they you know, they
Speaker 1: respond to being arrested by like getting more militant. But
Speaker 1: then that just you know, that fuels the cycle of
Speaker 1: them getting arrested for and people just leave because they're like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: if I'm in this organization, like we're all just gonna
Speaker 1: like get shot. I mean that's the spiral. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just real problem. And like how
Speaker 1: does Chiso himself becomes just like incredibly depressed by the
Speaker 1: depression of the movement, but acteally thirty two, he just
Speaker 1: leaves like he's just out. He like his anarchism. He
Speaker 1: abuses his wife because this is the story of a
Speaker 1: bunch of guys who sucked. And then he drinks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I guess okay, he he did it to him.
Speaker 1: He yeah, he drinks. He got it done on his arm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, so he he dies and he like
Speaker 1: kills himself. Well I don't think he was doing a purpose,
Speaker 1: but he just dies from drinking too much. And that year,
Speaker 1: actually the anarcho communists, Narcos Niklaus like get back together.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter because by this point the fascists
Speaker 1: are just started different power. And yeah, the anarchists they do,
Speaker 1: they do one last world uprising and they fight a
Speaker 1: lot of cops and then all of them get arrested
Speaker 1: and anarchism just sort of dies until the end of
Speaker 1: World War Two. And yeah, it's you know, okay, anarchism
Speaker 1: does re emerge after the war, but that's like that,
Speaker 1: that's a whole another story and entirely. Uh what I
Speaker 1: will say about is if you see those those construction
Speaker 1: hats from the protests, and you see one that's just
Speaker 1: all black, it doesn't have like a name written on it,
Speaker 1: like those are the anarchists. It's still around um and
Speaker 1: you know, an anarchist of Japan like survives to this day.
Speaker 1: There there there's a book called the Manual for a
Speaker 1: Worldwide for a worldwide manuk revolts that like, one day,
Speaker 1: I swear to God, I'm actually gonna read but he
Speaker 1: is really big in China. Well, okay, I said really
Speaker 1: big in China. It's very influential in a very small
Speaker 1: subcultural anarchist scene in China. But I'm talking about them
Speaker 1: because it heavily influenced Like the people who wrote the
Speaker 1: Lying Flat manifesto, Um, we're like, we're very heavily influenced
Speaker 1: by this stuff. Oh okay, okay, So we did the
Speaker 1: episode about this a while back, but Lying Flat was
Speaker 1: this thing in China, I guess still going on, but
Speaker 1: like people were just like it's kind of it was
Speaker 1: kind of the version of anti work or a most
Speaker 1: people like discovered diogenes and or like what if I
Speaker 1: just didn't work? What if I just like lived on,
Speaker 1: like I worked like one day a month then lived
Speaker 1: on like nothing so I didn't have to work? Or
Speaker 1: if I just quit. What if I just like stop
Speaker 1: doing all of this capitalist stuff, and what if I
Speaker 1: like stop having to deal with this patriarchy. What if
Speaker 1: I just like, you know, yeah, and it takes kind
Speaker 1: of like yeah, yeah, they're they're great. They lots of
Speaker 1: on diogenies quotes, lots of like the manifesto they released
Speaker 1: is like very it's like very anarchist and yeah, like
Speaker 1: that whole thing, and that was like like this, this
Speaker 1: is a big enough social movement that like like she
Speaker 1: jumping like mentioned it in a speech, Okay, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: like Jenny's anarchism still influence to this day, a big
Speaker 1: deal for them. They were kind of kind of concerned
Speaker 1: a that like this the same way a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of like oligarchs got concerned about the anti work stuff
Speaker 1: and you saw like anti work hit pieces in the
Speaker 1: past like six months. It was, yeah, it's like similar
Speaker 1: things being like, well, this better not catch on more
Speaker 1: because that could really suck for us. That's as optimistic
Speaker 1: of a note as you could possibly get out of
Speaker 1: the story, which is that they're still around and they
Speaker 1: still influence things that matter, and hopefully they don't fight
Speaker 1: each other more than the state. Yeah, don't don't do that,
Speaker 1: Like I like, yes, I guess I will make my
Speaker 1: controversial Sometimes it's okay to stab an abuser under the
Speaker 1: throat stance. But also, don't purge all your syndicalists because
Speaker 1: on the accusation of Bullshevism hot take, don't purge all
Speaker 1: your synthey classes. Yeah, don't systematize violence like that. You know,
Speaker 1: you're like, this individual guy just did this thing, and
Speaker 1: I'm real upset that he just did it to me,
Speaker 1: And there's like a throat. I'm not actually making an
Speaker 1: actual advocacy. I'm talking about how sometimes when that has
Speaker 1: happened in history that seemed kind of cool. But yeah,
Speaker 1: not the not the systemic kick out all the people
Speaker 1: who have this minor I mean, it's really funny to
Speaker 1: me because I'm like, I'm like huge anti infighting. Then
Speaker 1: people are like, don't you spend all your time fighting
Speaker 1: tankies on the internet, And I'm like, they want to
Speaker 1: make a state that's different. Yeah, they believe that they
Speaker 1: everyone should be thrown in jail. That is a different thing. Um. Also,
Speaker 1: I don't like you've got to manage to polycuele drama.
Speaker 1: Like you gotta manage. It's got to be kept under control.
Speaker 1: You cannot allow your retire your steam to be factionalized
Speaker 1: over rival polyuels and anarchists control your polycuel drama quotations
Speaker 1: and parties impossible. See, that's why you just need more.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's true, it's like you need more multigenerational anarchists
Speaker 1: because I think people in their forties give less of
Speaker 1: a ship about a lot of the trauma. But then
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe that's not true. Maybe people on their
Speaker 1: bodies keep just as much of a ship about all
Speaker 1: the trauma. Anarchism wonderful idea. Yep, yeah, that's good. And
Speaker 1: speaking of wonderful ideas, it is time for us to
Speaker 1: do the plugs. Um. First, I just want to plug
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus is new cool Zone Media podcast Goes Church
Speaker 1: by Jamie Loftus. Uh. By the time this drops, episode
Speaker 1: one will be out in episode two will be dropping
Speaker 1: the next Monday, I believe, yes exactly. And we also
Speaker 1: have another podcast on Coolson Media with one Margaret Killjoy
Speaker 1: it called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff? Margaret, you
Speaker 1: wanted to tell us about that? Oh sho? Should I
Speaker 1: start working on that. I'll get it done by monday, okay,
Speaker 1: cool Um, I have a new podcast called cool People
Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff, which is as about cool people
Speaker 1: who did did cool stuff, and you might like it
Speaker 1: if you like stories about people who. Um, I can't
Speaker 1: say cool stuff again, I'll have to use come up
Speaker 1: with more synonyms. Really, it's just all a competition to
Speaker 1: see how many synonyms for cool I can come up
Speaker 1: with without using the word based, because I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm too old to use the word based without really,
Speaker 1: this is what you are here for. So I'm much
Speaker 1: more eloquent on my podcast, which you can catch every
Speaker 1: Monday and Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts, probably wherever
Speaker 1: you got this podcast is where you can find it.
Speaker 1: And the trailer is out now, so you can go
Speaker 1: and you can listen to the trailer where I talk
Speaker 1: about some anarchist bank robbers who broke out of prison,
Speaker 1: because why would you be in prison when you could
Speaker 1: be outside of prison, which is generally the preferable position
Speaker 1: to be in, with the exception of like every now
Speaker 1: and then, like people break up out of jail by
Speaker 1: like someone goes to jail on purpose, but they have
Speaker 1: like hacks all blades in their shoes and ship. That
Speaker 1: would be cool too. Um So more breaking your friends
Speaker 1: out of jail and less chasing them out of the
Speaker 1: room jeering at them is my general rule. I hate
Speaker 1: to make rules, but if I were to make one,
Speaker 1: it would be that. And you can hear me talk
Speaker 1: about those kinds of stories on the podcast. Well, thank
Speaker 1: thank thank you so much for joining joining us today,
Speaker 1: for for Chris to talk about the wonderful, wonderful history
Speaker 1: of Japanese centricism and the many, the many deaths that
Speaker 1: are associated in those poor people and yeah, the like
Speaker 1: so basically like a like a mini Korean genocide. Yeah, yeah, intense.
Speaker 1: Well that's it for us today. You can find this
Speaker 1: suit on Instagram. It happen to your pot in cool
Speaker 1: sound Media. Uh see you next week and go listen
Speaker 1: to podcasts. We have many of them. It could happen
Speaker 1: here as a production of cool Zone Media. But more
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening.