1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: I guess I'm starting this one. Hi, welcome to take 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: it happen here. It's a show. If you're listening to 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: this episode, you probably listen to the last one. You 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: know what it's about. Yeah, please do don't start. I mean, 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: I guess you could start with this one because this 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: one is sort of wildly different than the last one. 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: But that's when we're rewriting it so they a'll survive. Yeah, 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. No one gets executed this episode. Yes, 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: that is that is a win. And the cosmists come, 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: The Russian cosmists come, and they resurrect at least Knikofumico 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: um the rest, give or take whatever. Maybe the children 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: could be resurrected. That's how I would prioritize it in 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: that order. That makes sense. Yeah. Um. And that voice 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: you're hearing is Margaret Killjoy, host of Cool, host of 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: CPW d C. Yes, Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: Cool medio podcast that is launching its first episode on 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: May second, and episodes are every Monday and Wednesday. I 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: did it? Okay? Who that's true? All the things are 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: true except the cosmist part. Yeah, the cosmists, I don't know. 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe maybe they'll still pull it off all right, 21 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: as as if yet, So we're gonna go back a 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: little bit. Um. We ended last episode with everyone sort 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: of dead. Um. But the reason that also didn't wipe 24 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: out the the anarchist movement was that there's that does 25 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: another sort of wing of it, and the other wing 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: of it is in in nineteen eighteen, labor movement in 27 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: Japan re emerges, and it re emerges because there's the war, 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: like Japan fights to over one, and there's just like 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: mass inflation and deprivation, and so even though striking is 30 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: like unbelievably illegal, people do it anyways because the underdative 31 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: is just starving to death. And so there's this reformist 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: trade union that eventually becomes Japanese Confederation of Labor that 33 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,279 Speaker 1: swells and numbers to about thirty thousand people, and actually 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: mentioned like thirty thousand people is like, it doesn't sound 35 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: like that big for a union. I think this is 36 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: the biggest any union is going to get in this period. 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: I think this union might get slightly bigger than that, 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: but like, yeah, most of the unions don't crack twenty 39 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: k because the size of the Japanese industrial working class 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: isn't that big and also the amount of oppression is unbelievable. 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: But you know, having having thirty thousand people in your 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: union means that your union is now the site of 43 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: Japanese intra left conflict, which is wonderful. People there is 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: actually like people up. Yeah, it's great. There's like, you know, 45 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: there's a period where everyone kind of gets along, like 46 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: like all of there was like everyone of the Japanese 47 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: Left knows each other, like all they're all dating each other, 48 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: Like this is true, Like you know, we've been talking 49 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: about all the interest stating each other. The anarchist, the 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: communists all dating each other, like the reformists are also 51 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: dating each other, Like they're all sort of like everyone 52 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: knows each other, and for like a bit they're sort 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: of able to get along. Ah. But with with with 54 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: the the Japanese Confederation of Labor. This last for like 55 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: one year, and the anarchists and the Bolsheviks have split 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: over the question of the USSR. After the anarchists published 57 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: like Emma Goldman writing about how it's bad actually, and 58 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: suddenly these two factions are like yeah, these factions are 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: like fighting tooth and nail for control of like the 60 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: entire left because like these these these groups are like 61 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: the anarchists and the communists are in every social movement, 62 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: like they're they're in there in labor, they're in the 63 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: feminist movements, there in this movement they're like we haven't 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: really talked about, but it's going on the background of 65 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: all of this, which is the burak Kuman liberation movement 66 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: on the burk Kuman or this like this like hereditary class. 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: I'm pronouncing that extremely badly and I apologize, um, but 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: the hereditary class and like the old fuel system, which 69 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: is like technically abolished in the ladies and hundreds, but 70 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: like discrimination against them continues. It's it's very similar to 71 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: like like the untouchable like touchables in India. And so 72 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: they have this sort of movements and the anarchists back it, 73 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: and the communists like waffle on it because the Bolsheviks, 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: it takes to like a while before they're like no, no, no, 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: We're we're fully backing this now. And so yeah, I 76 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: mean that gets wrapped up in this this giant battle 77 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: for the control of the left, and the battle for 78 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: the control of the left leads to like one of 79 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: history's most common alliances which is Bolsheviks allying with reformists 80 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: who like also favor like centralized control to fight the anarchists. 81 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: You don't want centralized control. Yeah, there there are new things, yea. 82 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: And in labor movement, this this plays out in this 83 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: battle over like where power is supposed to be in 84 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: a union confederation. So you know, the question basically is 85 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: it supposed to be in the federation bureaucracy like the 86 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: people are like the sort of high level of the 87 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: bureaucracy it sself, or is it supposed to be in 88 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: the unions who are like the part of federation. And 89 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: and this has real consequences, you know, like in a 90 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: lot of sort of centralized union federations, like the central 91 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: union bureaucracy of the people who decide if you can 92 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: strike or not m hm. And you know, this is 93 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: extremely useful to both reformers bureaucrats who want to make 94 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: sure nobody goes on strike because they have their deal 95 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: with the capitalists and they don't want to refolution happen. 96 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: And it's also very useful for the Bolsheviks who want 97 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: to make sure they can purge anyone who they don't like, 98 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: and also want to make sure the Union movement just 99 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: like an extension of their politics. And so there's this 100 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: huge battle and it ends with basically like both the 101 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: Bolsheviks and the reformists pull out of the Union. Whoa, 102 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: so the anarchists win, Oh yes, sort of, Well they 103 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: do appear in victory. There's like nothing les Yeah, well 104 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: it's not there's nothing. So like twenty tho members go 105 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: with the reformists, like twelve thou go with the Bolsheviks, 106 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: about eight thousand go with the anarchists. So it's not 107 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: the best, but they rebuild and and into this phrase 108 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: steps arguably Japan's greatest anarchist theorists of this period, Hottes Shoeso. 109 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: And this guy is a character like he's he's he's 110 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: barely known in Japan. I mean, there was a sort 111 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: of like renaissance in how does shoes a scholarship when 112 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: this one guy named John Krupp wrote this book called 113 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: how to Shoeso? How does Shuzo? And Pure Anarchism and 114 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: Interwar Japan, which is a mouthful of a title. But 115 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep plugging this because like this is 116 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: the book that made me an anarchist. Like this is 117 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: like I checked this book out from my library and 118 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: I read it and I was like, oh my god, 119 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: I'm an anarchist now. So yeah, he has he has 120 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: like A because she has a wild story. Um. He's 121 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: born in He's born in Japan in December six and 122 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: he sort of like bounces around like different manual labor 123 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: jobs in Tokyo, and like at one point he he 124 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: he wants to be like A. He tries to be 125 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: like I don't know if it's a long shot. He 126 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: wants to be like a sailor. So he gets on 127 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: a boat and he's gonna be a sailor, and then 128 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: he after like one sale ride to Taiwan, he immediately 129 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: decides he doesn't want to be a sailor anymore. So 130 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: he just gets off the boat and Eason doesn't come back. 131 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I would do if I decided, 132 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like that job, especially like the nineteen like twenties, 133 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: that jobs, he's awful. Yeah, You're like, I want adventure, 134 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, adventure means bad things happen. 135 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, I I guess I understand why 136 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: all these people are anarchists, because like that is a 137 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: terrible job. But yeah, so she so winds up sort 138 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: of just like wandering around Taiwan. And one of the 139 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: things that happens when he's wanting around Taiwan, by the way, 140 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: is a Japanese colony at this point, um okay. And 141 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: while he's wandering around Taiwan, he becomes a Christian and 142 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: he like goes to school, it's like a theologian, but 143 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: he drops out, but then he somehow still becomes a 144 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: pastor because I don't know, this guy's career is wild. No, 145 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: she's always not like a normal pastor. He rapidly starts 146 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: pissing off like everyone around him because he's like every 147 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: all of his sermons are just him and taggetizing rich 148 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: people and preaching this like very very left wedged in 149 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,119 Speaker 1: the Gospel to be like the read the Bible. Yeah yeah, yeah, 150 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: it's incredible that there's a great quote from Haweshizu and 151 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Pierre anarchist of it Into War Japan about his time 152 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: as a pastor, from like someone who was there, it 153 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: was Pastor Hottes sermons were superbs, so much so that 154 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: I thought it was a shame that more people were 155 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: not there to hear them. It was like the Bible 156 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: talking in the spirit of pure socialism. And one of 157 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: my friends admired Pastor Hottes so much that the asid 158 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: to celebrate his marriage. Yeah, and you know this like 159 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: this does not make around. Yeah yeah, he say, Well, 160 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: it's funny because he starts like as a Christian, right, 161 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: but like he just like progressively keeps getting more and 162 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: more left wing and keeps realizing that like, okay, so 163 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: there's the Kingdom of God in heaven, right, but like 164 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: what if we did that here? And like as he's 165 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: getting like as he's pissing off more of the church, 166 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: um and as like they're they're they're in fighting, gets bigger, 167 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: he's becoming just more and more of an anarchist. And 168 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: by the end he just like gets up. He gets 169 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: booted out by his church and he's just like, okay, 170 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm anarchist propagandist now, and sow four he just like 171 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: leaves and he's like, well, I'm anarchists now. Um, and 172 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Shizo becomes what's known as a pure anarchist. And this 173 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: is something that is like entirely unique to Japan that 174 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: like there there's nothing there's this doesn't exist anywhere else. Um, 175 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: and this is different than like basically every other anarchist 176 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: theorist and movement in Japan until this point has been 177 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: like something you can find parallels with other anarchist movements 178 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: around the globe, Like there are nihilists and lots of 179 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: countries as egoists everywhere like their cynicalists literally in every 180 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: country has ever existed, and they mostly sort of believe 181 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: the same things. Um, you know, and you get some 182 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: like like oh yessaki is like combination of egoism and 183 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: syndicalism is like it's cool, but like I like that idea. Yeah, yeah, 184 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: it's a good idea, but it's also not like it's 185 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: like he's he's not he's not like he's not the 186 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: first person to ever do this right. And like the 187 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: japaneseynicalist movement is is built in the molde of like 188 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: the French syndicalists in the CGT, which is this big union. 189 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: H actually they're still around today there so in like 190 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: the very early eighteen hundreds they were there. They were 191 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: sort of a narcost Nicolas union and like nighte to 192 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: know six they have this famous charter about like anarchists, 193 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: but then they go reformist and they like they vote 194 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 1: for World War We're one and now they're famous for 195 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: there's been like twelve things that probably could have been 196 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: a revolution in France if the c GT had ever 197 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: a single time went to the barricades. And they never 198 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: do Whi's never ever, that's like their whole thing, Like 199 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: like they sat out by sixty eight, Like that's yeah, 200 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: this union. Yeah, and they sat out by sixty eight. 201 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: It's like it's incredible, but you know it's the But 202 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, in like nineteen know six, right, the Japanese 203 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: are looking at like cyniccals looking at this like oh 204 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: my god, this just this union has like millions of 205 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: people in it, like it's enormous. It's a cynicals union. 206 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and like you know, they they the 207 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: Jamans anarchists do is sort of their standard cynicalist things 208 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: like that they're building up democratic unions. They're like working 209 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: cords in general, strike the season mused their production. They're 210 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: like fighting for a society or production is run by 211 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: workers themselves. Blah blah blah bla I should blah blah 212 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: blah blah. That's actually it's it's cool. It's fine, but 213 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: pure anarchism is not that I'm dying to know what 214 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: pure anarchism is. This new anarchism just dropped. I'm excited. 215 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a it's it's a version of 216 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: her communism. But like what if you like really really 217 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: rigorously applied in arcole communism and and this is this 218 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: is the thing. It doesn't exist anywhere else because everywhere, 219 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: like in the West and in Latin America, like syndicalism 220 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: and anarchist and anarcho communism just like fuse to the 221 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: point where like they're not really They're like, but there's 222 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: not really they're not really separate tendency like nobody's written 223 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: in archo communist theory, and like a hundred years like 224 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: like they start, you know, they've basically ceased to be 225 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: separate tendencies. But in Japan, the cyndicicaliss of the and 226 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: comps like fighting it out to the death, and this 227 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: this produces pure anarchism and it rules can talk about 228 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: what it is because it's both wonderful and incredibly silly 229 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: at the same time. So okay, So so to understand 230 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: what they're arguing about, because this is this is this 231 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: this causes like a huge fracture in the annext movements. Um, 232 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: I think we need to sort of like go into 233 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: like the vulgar barkist conception of class structure that's kind 234 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: of shared by the cyndicalists. So okay, okay, so you're you're, 235 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: you're okay. The important thing about this is that, like 236 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: this doesn't work at your pan like the vulgar theory 237 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: of like marcutis class structure, right, is that like, okay, 238 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: so you're supposed to have the great industrial proletariat, Like 239 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: it's that's supposed to become a majority of the population. 240 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be unified and organized by like the 241 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: discipline of the factory system, and the entire world is 242 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: supposed to reduce to two classes, like the borgewisi and 243 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: the proletariat, like one class of people who have nothing 244 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: to sell but their labor. One class of people who 245 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: exist purely too like extract wealth from people because like 246 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: you who you entirely supportless of my owning things. And 247 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, eventually these are supposed to, like if you 248 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: if you read your communist manifesto, Eventually these two classes 249 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: are supposed to like meet themselves in like a final 250 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: conflict or the proletariat defeats it's called yeah yeah, yeah, 251 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: and you know, the proporteria defeats them, and then they 252 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: abolish the conditions of their own existence as a class 253 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: and you get stateless class lists. But in this society, 254 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: it's like a free association of workers. And this is 255 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: what communism is. And famously this never happened. Yeah, what 256 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: about the immortal science. Yeah, you know they well they 257 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: want the wortal science. Yeah, this, this is the This 258 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: is the problem the immortal science is that one, instead 259 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: of unifying the industrial proletariat, capitalism like divides it and 260 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: just sort of like like literally spatially like kicks them 261 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: into suburbs, and you can get this sort of like 262 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: the system where instead of like unifying everyone into one class, 263 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: everyone is now this like completely alienated like boomer living 264 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: in a suburb, even if it's still work in a factory. 265 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: And the other problem is that there's never just two classes. 266 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: And this is a problem that like, yeah, all the 267 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: other ones are our enemies. Yeah, this worried too, you know, 268 00:13:58,520 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: but this is a real problem, right because like the 269 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: like the marxis run into this in Russia where it's 270 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: like okay, so we we did our thing, we did 271 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: our urban poultry and revolution, but like there's all these 272 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: peasants and they don't like us because we keep taking 273 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: their granted gunpoint and but but you know that you 274 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: have you have this one problem and and popular, yeah, 275 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: it goes great, right if not nothing bad ever happens, 276 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: they don't famously have to kill enormal members of these people. 277 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: But then like you know, there's something weird happens, which 278 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: is in China, Stalin managed to get like the entire 279 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: or like the entire urban Chinese working class like builitic 280 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: working class killed, and so Mao has to like make 281 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: a revolution with peasants, and so you know, peasants become 282 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: the sort of like you know, this this sort of 283 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: like this, this is what the actual refolution strtuct of 284 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: communism wants up being. Like from the China Columbia, it's 285 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: these peasants. But like you know, okay, so you're your 286 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: three of the industrial politariats already down the toilet. And 287 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: this is what Shuzo is reacting to. Like he looks 288 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: at Japanese society and there's like five people who you 289 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: wage labor. Mostly there's this inor was like fourteen million 290 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: people who are tenant farmers who are like trying to 291 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: support their families and these like tiny plots of rented land. 292 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: But you know, and like in center Marxist theories like well, okay, 293 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: these people will inevitably be absorbed into capitalism, right, but 294 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: they will be driven by competition or whatever to the market. 295 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: But like they're not, it's not happening. They're just they're 296 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: sitting there and they're still just really poor in paying 297 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: their landlords. And yeah, yeah, well you just gotta wait 298 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: for all of Japan to be like annihilated. Yeah yeah, yeah, 299 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's going great. But and it's also 300 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: like there's all these other like classes to you, like 301 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: there's there's these classes of like there's just like petty 302 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: traders for example, or like like low level like really 303 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: low level government officials like like you know, you're like 304 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: like a clerk for example, who just don't fit into 305 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: this sort of class schem at all, Like if if 306 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: marks some things about like like small like I don't know, 307 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: people who like cut wood and then go into a 308 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: town and sell it. Like they're like, well, there's can 309 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: these people are prete Bogwa like their reactionaries, and there's 310 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: this whole history of like anarchists organizing people like this 311 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: who marks just sort of like steer out, Like Bolivia 312 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: has this where like anarchists organized these like these indigenous 313 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: like they're not really these indigenous artisans whose things like 314 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: they go to market and they saw their craft. And 315 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: the Marxists were just like, how do we care about 316 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: the people? Like why yeah, workers, And it always seems 317 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: like the better I don't know, whenever I was presented 318 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: with the basic analysis of like, okay, we've got the 319 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: proletariat who have terrible lives and factories, and then you 320 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: have the lump and proletariat who refuse that kind of 321 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: work and are like beggars and thieves and people doing 322 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: work outside of the traditional system or whatever. And then 323 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: you have the petty bourgeoisie who are like you know, 324 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: owned stores or artisans or whatever. And then you have 325 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: the bourgeoisie over it. And it is always funny to 326 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: me because I look at I'm like, well, clearly, the 327 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: only ones that would be worth being would be lumping 328 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: proletariat or pet like they're the only ones to get 329 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: to have any fun like, yeah, you know, and I think, like, like, 330 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: this is a problem that that chooso sees. And I'm 331 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: gonna read part of um Krupt's book about his solution 332 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: to this because I think it's really interesting. Um. Given 333 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: the failure of the available methods of class analysis to 334 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: capture the subtleties of Japan's social structure, how To developed 335 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: the notion of the propertyless masses as an alternative concept 336 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: of the proletariat. That the propertyless masses was a wide 337 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: ranching term which encompassed tenant farmers, small traders, petty officials, artisans, 338 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: and even wage laborers when they are prepared to forsake 339 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: their preoccupation with narrowly defending advantages that accompanied their urban 340 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: lifestyle and we're ready to throw in their lot with 341 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: the other oppressed strata. Yeah, that makes sense. That's just 342 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: the you know, it's the like or's just the haves 343 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: and have nots. It's like, okay, well it's it's kind 344 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: of but but there's there's a crucial difference here, which 345 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: is that like, okay, so the other like the really 346 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: big thing about the pure anarchists that they don't believe 347 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: in class struggle, okay, and the reason why they don't 348 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: believe in class struggle is that they think that, Okay, 349 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: so they look at the history of the union movement, right, 350 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, so has the union movement ended capitalism? 351 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: It's like no, so like okay, what what does it 352 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: actually do? And the answer is it gets people slightly 353 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: more money under capitalism, which is nice too, yeah, which 354 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: which is nice. But it's also like shooes so like 355 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: adopted tube that there's no other Japanese anarchists who who 356 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: has this beta for It's like he he compares it 357 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: to like people fighting inside of like a bandit gang, 358 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: where it's like, okay, so if you have you have 359 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: like fight, like the bosses of the bandit gang are 360 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: obviously exploiting like the lower level people in the bandit gang. 361 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: But you know, I even even if even if the 362 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: lower level people in this bandit gang like take over, 363 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: they're not actually gonna stop being a bandit gang, right, 364 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: It's just that the the distribution of where the bandit 365 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: gang wealth is going changes. And this is a big 366 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: thing for for for the purannicist because the puor anchists 367 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: are you know, they're there looking at the industrial working 368 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: classes like this is tiny and they're they're all exploiting 369 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: the countryside. Hm. And so because of that, like they 370 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: they look at this, they look at the union movement, 371 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: and they look at it at like class struggle, like 372 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: classical TM like class struggle, and they're like, well, this 373 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: doesn't cause a revolution. All this does is just like 374 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: sort of reorients like who's in power inside of Uh 375 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: that's what the Bolsheviks did, right, Yeah, But but it's 376 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: it's not just what the bulls they applies to the Bolsheviks, 377 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: but like it's also like there's analysis of what a 378 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: union is that you're like class struggles just defending your 379 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: position uder capitalism, but you're also fighting very specifically narrowly 380 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: for your class. Right, So if you're like a factory worker, right, 381 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: you're fighting for you and the other factory workers. You're 382 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: not fighting for like I don't know, like a tenant farm. 383 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: But you're not you know, even fighting from like for 384 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: like the guy down the tree to BIG's bread. It's 385 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: like you're you know, the these these things that are 386 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: like that are but they look like instruments of class struggles, 387 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: like your workers council, your unions or soviets like they 388 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: don't actually get rid of class. It's just now another 389 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: class has power. And it doesn't matter if it's sort 390 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: of like this is what they're argument is like, it 391 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it's like democratic, It doesn't matter if 392 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: it's like you know, like they're they're there's no difference 393 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: in how the actual eventually the class and amics will 394 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: play out. It doesn't matter if it's like you know, 395 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: like Lenin making like Stalin making himself dictator, or you 396 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: have a bunch of democratic like Soviets, because they're both 397 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: so intrimented class power and they're both sort of just 398 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: going to reproduce this, this whole system. And yeah, and 399 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: so they have this thing that they counterpose, which is 400 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: like class struggle is just about what stuff is happening 401 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: inside the system. But that's different revolution, which is like 402 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: destroying this the system entirely. And this is where you 403 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: get into his stuff about the division of labor, which 404 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: is I think it's really interesting because it I think 405 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: this this sphere of pure anarchism got to a bunch 406 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: of critiques of stuff that people have gotten to now, 407 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: but they got to it in where Okay, so she's 408 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: like one of his big things is that like the 409 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: division of labor is inherently exploitative because it like it 410 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: destroys sort of rural community living and it replaces it 411 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: with the centralization of expertise and centralization of power. And 412 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: he also thinks that like science is like a capitalist 413 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: engine that's used to like create the division of labor, 414 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: and then it's used to create like mechanization, and it's 415 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: used to create like labor exploitation. Yeah, this that sounds 416 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: like modern A lot of like stuff that I read 417 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: more modern. Yeah, yeah, yeah, except this is like they're 418 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: doing this in like like nineteen twenties seven. Else is 419 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: a capitalist engine of exploitation products and surface the podcast 420 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: Industrial Complex, It's true, and we're back with more things 421 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: that are exploitative and the theoretically theoretically yes, yes, but 422 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: we we we we have we have to get through. 423 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: We have to get through the last exploitative thing, which 424 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: is the thing. I talked a bit about this earlier. 425 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: But like the Puranicists argued that like cities inherently are 426 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: this concentration of wealthy resources and power, and so like 427 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: farmers and workers need to work together to destroy all 428 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: forms of power, including cities. And this sounds a lot 429 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: like primitive. Is yeah, it does, although you know, they 430 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be like wrapping the farmers, and I think 431 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: I think primitives might be the wrong term. But it's 432 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: definitely a lot of like the anti tech stuff, and 433 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: well it's it's interesting, Okay. So they have they have 434 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: like they threat this needle where so like there are 435 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: people in this period who want to just go back 436 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: to pure rural grarianism and don't want their to technology, 437 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: and the pure anarchists are like, no, we still want technology, 438 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: but we don't want the division of labor. So they're like, 439 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: we like our raping machines so we don't have to 440 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: work as much more more farming. We just don't want 441 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 1: everyone to live in apartments. Yeah, I mean even the 442 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,719 Speaker 1: reaping machine. I don't know, Like it's kind of unclear 443 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: to me how this is exactly supposed to work, because 444 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: like we'll get into this. I guess we can just 445 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: get into this now, which is it, Like, okay, so 446 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: they really don't like the division of labor because they 447 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: think the division of labor like, well, okay, they have 448 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: they have like there's like three critiques of but one 449 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: is that like when you have a division of labor, 450 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: labor becomes like mechanized industrialized. And when that happens, um 451 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: labor because like it gets reduced to just like a 452 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: cog you put in a machine m hm. And they 453 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: say this is like this is like an inherent like 454 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: thing that happens with labor specializations. You just end up 455 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: like being a person who makes you want repetitive moving 456 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: a factory over and over again, like you're not free 457 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: because of this um. And they also argue that like 458 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: specialization means that people only care about like labor that 459 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: they do and so this gives you like an identity 460 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: that that divides workers from one sector, like say if 461 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: you're if you're you know, you're like a coal miner, right, 462 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: your daily experience is so utterly different than a baker. 463 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: And it's not just like your experience, it's like it's 464 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: like your knowledge is different. The other person is not gonna, 465 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: like baker is not going to understand what you're doing. Um. 466 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: And you keep wanting to argue against this political position 467 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: that no, no, that misunderstands the nature of specialization at all, 468 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: you know. But then I'm like, all right, I can't 469 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: go back and convince these people. Yeah, yeah, I think 470 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: like I think, okay, this is I'm gonna, I'm gonna, 471 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put on my my, my marks, my like 472 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: weird left calm mars, noise and critique not a platform, 473 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: which is not they actually wanted as a platform, but 474 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: like I think it would have been a great critique 475 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: and not a very good platform. Yeah, they're the platform. Yeah, 476 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: I mean I think I think there's there's the interesting 477 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: elements of it. Like they have this argument that like, okay, 478 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: so if if you have your like your your syndicalists, 479 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: like society right where Okay, so you have a bunch 480 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: of like you have a bunch of like coal miners, 481 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: you have a bunch of people who like make pots 482 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: and hands, but you need to coordinate your labor, okay 483 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: because because you you have you have like specialization, you 484 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: have branches of labor. And their argument is that, okay, 485 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: so well the city clues way you do this. You 486 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: have coordinating committees, right you you like elect a person 487 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: you like, send them to a coordinating council, and the 488 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: coordinating council like coordinates stuff. And she was just like, 489 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: well that's just gonna she those like things like that's 490 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: just gonna turn into a state. Like you're just gonna 491 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: create a permanent class, even even if you rotate people. 492 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: You're you're you're creating an administrative body that's gonna like 493 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: rebuild the state again. And yeah, like okay, like I 494 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: than this like shrugging gesture that the audience cans like yeah, 495 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I I don't, okay. So, like I 496 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: don't think he's right about like most of this, Like 497 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: I think he's sort of wrong about like almost all 498 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: of it. The thing the thing that's stuck with me, 499 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: so when I read this is like his specific critique 500 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: of syndicalism, which is that it maintains like the structure 501 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: of the old world. Because if you're a syndicalist and 502 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: your your society is based on unions running their workplaces, 503 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: then you've maintained the division of labor, but you've also 504 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: maintained like the basic like geographic, physical, technological, and organizational 505 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: structure of capitalism, like all of the like all of 506 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: that stuff is still in the same place, and you're 507 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: still sort of like going there to do your job. 508 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: And I think there is an interesting sort of like 509 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: like I think there's a genuine interesting critique there of yeah, 510 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: like how how do you make sure that you aren't 511 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: just sort of reproducing that stuff? And like like I mean, 512 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: I don't know, like the critique of why would you 513 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: want to build a society likes structured along the lines 514 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: of production, Like why why do you want to structure 515 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: your society around work? Like that's awful. I I like 516 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: that about the pure anarchists, where they were kind of like, 517 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: let's let's let's throw away the Marxist ship for a 518 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: minute and like just actually like figure out what we want, 519 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: and like, I I like that about it, But I 520 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: I dislike the idea of like, well it's it's it 521 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: would be my problem with syndicalism, and most of the 522 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: syndicalists I met believe in syndicalism as a method and 523 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: not an end result. Right, um, it's a way of 524 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: building workers power, not a way to create a society. 525 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,959 Speaker 1: But but if syndicalists were like everyone must wake up 526 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: and go to their work job and then make eight widgets, 527 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: but it's collectively determined which widgets that you make, right, 528 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: like funk that. But also if it was like everyone 529 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: goes and wakes up and goes to their collective farm 530 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: and maybe we use raping machines and maybe we don't. 531 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: And it's just like I get so unexcited by It's 532 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: like one of the reasons that like a lot of 533 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: the like nitpicky branches of anarchism don't they interest me, 534 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: but I don't like subscribe to any of them, is 535 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, what if some people like this 536 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: ship some people like this ship like and you know, 537 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 1: maybe they're could be fucking different. Imagine that we could 538 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: have a plurality of economic models stems. But you know whatever, Um, 539 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: I'm now arguing with that people who I probably this 540 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: is interesting, Like, well, I don't know, because these guys 541 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: like they they have like the maoist thing going on, 542 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: where like they will like attack other leftist groups who 543 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: like don't like follow their line. And so this is 544 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: where this whole thing is wild, because it was one 545 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: of the other things, like the the pure anarchists are 546 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,959 Speaker 1: like completely convinced that syndicalism is like a sort of 547 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: like well they think it's it's just like it's not 548 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: an anarchist thing. It's just like a tendency to labor movement. 549 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: And they also think that like it's basically like a 550 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: bastardized form of Marxism because they're not like entirely wrong 551 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: about either of those things. But yeah, except in a 552 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: different places and times. Yeah, but it's like the thing, 553 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: the thing that they have. But it like because they're 554 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: they're completely convinced that syndicalism will inevitably just like turn 555 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: into like Soviet communism. It's like it's incredibly silly. Um, 556 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: But like like this, you know, I like, on the 557 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: one hand, like they are kind of inventing a lot 558 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: of the sort of like like they're they're inventing a 559 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: lot of the sort of like some okay, some bad 560 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: arguments about like specialization and stuff, like like some anti 561 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: work stuff too, that like is going to be around later. 562 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: They're also inventing a lot of stuff that's like and 563 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, initially this kind of like new theory doesn't 564 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: have this doesn't have an enormous effect. Um. In six, 565 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: the Federation of Black Youth or COCODA and has its 566 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: first public meeting, and they have a bunch of cool slogans. 567 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: The the slogans rolled they have the emancipation of workers 568 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: must be carried out by the workers themselves. We insist 569 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: on libertarian federation, destroy the political movement, get rid of 570 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: reject the Poltarian party, get rid of professional activists with 571 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: all oppressive laws and ordinances. That is an entirely based platform. Yeah, sweet, 572 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: it's it's good. Yeah. And you know there were things 573 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: despite the fact that it's called the Federation of Black Youth, 574 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: this is like not a youth. I mean, I mean 575 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: there's like youth in it, but like it's it's this 576 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: thing's backed by like remember those those printers unions that 577 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: I was talking about last episode that I was like, Hi, 578 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: you have like set up. So they're all heavily involved 579 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: in this um and they do a bunch of cool 580 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: labor stuff, like they get involved in, like, uh, there's 581 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of tram worker strikes to get involved in. 582 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: The they're in this, uh the Japanese Musical Instrument Company strike, 583 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: which is like there's like over a thousand people on 584 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: strike for like over a hundred days, and there's there's 585 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: this great split where like so the leadership of the 586 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: union is Bolshevik, but like a bunch of the like 587 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of the ordinary people in the union are 588 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: anarchists and so you have that there's there's like there's 589 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: this fun tension going around there. They're they're they're they're 590 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: doing the stuff. Um and then the anarchists form um 591 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: Zengoku Dieterrand, which is the All Japanese Libertarian Federation of 592 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: Labor Unions, which is a it's a federation of twenty 593 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: five unions. These are the Pierre anarchists that you're talking 594 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: about that are doing all this. So sorry at this 595 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: point they haven't split yet, okay, because it was like 596 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: this sounds like all the stuff that they said that 597 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: they don't want to do. Yeah, well, this is like 598 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: the other the other wild thing about this is that like, okay, 599 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: so the entirety of like of like Piannicis theory, right, 600 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: is about how like unions don't do revolutions and that 601 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,239 Speaker 1: class struggle, but like they still do strikes, like they 602 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: still do all the normal stuff. It's kind of wild, Okay, 603 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: I kind of like that, yeah, you know, and like 604 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: and and this that that's sort of how they're able 605 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: to get along in this early period. And these unions like, okay, 606 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: so there's like a lot of Printers unions in this 607 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: because the Prints unions are just really anarchists. But there's 608 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: there's like there's a tenant farmers union. There's a lotch 609 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: of like rubber unions, and it grows to like fifteen 610 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: workers almost immediately, and yeah, they' they're doing to a 611 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff, like they they have they have 612 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: these huge demonstrations in supporter of SACO and fnzetti uh 613 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: to the US is killing for being narchists and also 614 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: Italians just like yeah, the one time anti Italian racism 615 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: was real and a hundred years ago, ship was real 616 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: different than it is now and it doesn't yeah yeah, 617 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And for for for one year, this like 618 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: this works great, you know, like the yeah that the 619 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: union's up to, like I think they get up to 620 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: like thirty thousand members, like it gets pretty big. But 621 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: then intense conflict between the syndicalists and the anarchac and 622 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: the pure anarchists breakout. And this gets so bad so 623 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: fast that like the International working Man's Association, which is 624 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: the like like the giant international like Federation of Cynicalist 625 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: Movements like sends them a letter that are like, hey, 626 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: cynicalist anarcro communists get along every literally everywhere else on earth. 627 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: Their Chilk. You guys like Chill and the anarcha communists 628 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: in Cocadoran. Uh. Their response is you are fighting quote 629 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: the Betrayer's opportunists and union imperialists in Zengoku Juran's ranks. 630 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: I can't have nice things. Ye know, it's great, it 631 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: gets better, it gets better. So they lose, yeah, because okay, 632 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: look in the conference, so uh Senoka Juran which is 633 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: the Union federation, like they have they have a conference, 634 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: they have the yearly conference, and there's just like giant 635 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: battle over like what the organizations platform is going to 636 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: be a thing that doesn't matter at all, except it's 637 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: a proxy ideological fight, and uh, both sides should start 638 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: screaming at each other. And I'm gonna read this description 639 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: from Ardashizo and Pyrannicas and Mento War Japan. Cocona and 640 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: members barricaded the barrack to the anarchy the anarchist syndicolist 641 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: jeering and cat calling them, and the proceedings degenerated to 642 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: the level where it was almost impossible to hear the speeches. Eventually, 643 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: the anarcho syn Nicholas decided they had had enough. Unflirling 644 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: their black flags, they walked out of the hall to 645 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: a chorus of taunts such as believers, blind, believers in 646 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: Central authority, Bolsheviks, and betrayers, Oh my god, go over yourself. 647 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: Oh my no, okay, to be fair to the pure anarchists, 648 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: one of so, okay, a bunch of the cynicals, you 649 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: can start leaving, and all one of them does actually 650 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: join the Bolsheviks, but like all the other ones don't 651 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: because they're not. And you get this period there's like 652 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: they have like the Cynical List and that the puirenarchists 653 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: of dueling magazines. Uh, there's won't call black flag. There's 654 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: won't called black battle, and like so cocon Ran, which 655 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: is like the youth mid thing, like the cynicalist and 656 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: the anarchists are still in it together, and they like 657 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: they start just like fighting each other in the street 658 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: when they run into each other, because the the this 659 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: is more oppressive than everyone getting murdered after the earthquake, 660 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: not the jet side anarchist killing part. Yeah well, I 661 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: mean yeah, yeah, it's it's like it's like well, you know, 662 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: and like yeah, they What's interesting about this though, is 663 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: that like the inucle communists, like when the union splits, 664 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 1: like almost all of the people stay with the communists, 665 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: even though the other communists like explicitly saying we're not 666 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 1: fighting for like wage increases, we're just fighting revolution, and fine, 667 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm all right with that. Yeah. Well, but there's interesting 668 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: stuff too where it's like like they're also so be 669 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: because they have this thing that's like, okay, so that 670 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: the urban workers are like exploiting the well, okay, the 671 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: line about it's complicated because it's like they think the 672 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,439 Speaker 1: urban workers are exploiting the countryside, but they also don't 673 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: think that the solution to it is to just like 674 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: turn it the other way around. They think that like 675 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: the workers and the tenant farmers just work together to 676 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: like make the oppression go away, which is like a 677 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: reasonable stance on it. Yeah, but it means that you 678 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: know that they're interested in, like they're interested in the 679 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: real movement in a way that like the other Japanese 680 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: lefe stupents aren't. But unfortunately, you know, Okay, there's a 681 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: big debate as to whether this split like actually like 682 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: like how big a role this split had in the 683 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: collapse of anarchism, because like bye bye by, like by 684 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: like nineteen thirty one, like the fascists have just straight 685 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: up taken over Manchuria. Like I think things have gotten 686 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: so fascist that it's like it's unclear whether the split 687 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: mattered at all. Yeah, um yeah, but you know, they 688 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: run into this problem where like like cocul and like 689 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: the state really hates them, and they all a bunch 690 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: of them get arrested, and that they you know, they 691 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: respond to being arrested by like getting more militant. But 692 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: then that just you know, that fuels the cycle of 693 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: them getting arrested for and people just leave because they're like, well, okay, 694 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: if I'm in this organization, like we're all just gonna 695 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:50,439 Speaker 1: like get shot. I mean that's the spiral. Yeah yeah, 696 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: and you know, it's just real problem. And like how 697 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: does Chiso himself becomes just like incredibly depressed by the 698 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: depression of the movement, but acteally thirty two, he just 699 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: leaves like he's just out. He like his anarchism. He 700 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: abuses his wife because this is the story of a 701 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: bunch of guys who sucked. And then he drinks. Yeah, 702 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: well I guess okay, he he did it to him. 703 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: He yeah, he drinks. He got it done on his arm. Yeah, 704 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: and you know, so he he dies and he like 705 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,959 Speaker 1: kills himself. Well I don't think he was doing a purpose, 706 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: but he just dies from drinking too much. And that year, 707 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: actually the anarcho communists, Narcos Niklaus like get back together. 708 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter because by this point the fascists 709 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: are just started different power. And yeah, the anarchists they do, 710 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: they do one last world uprising and they fight a 711 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: lot of cops and then all of them get arrested 712 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: and anarchism just sort of dies until the end of 713 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: World War Two. And yeah, it's you know, okay, anarchism 714 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: does re emerge after the war, but that's like that, 715 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: that's a whole another story and entirely. Uh what I 716 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: will say about is if you see those those construction 717 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: hats from the protests, and you see one that's just 718 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: all black, it doesn't have like a name written on it, 719 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: like those are the anarchists. It's still around um and 720 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: you know, an anarchist of Japan like survives to this day. 721 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: There there there's a book called the Manual for a 722 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: Worldwide for a worldwide manuk revolts that like, one day, 723 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: I swear to God, I'm actually gonna read but he 724 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: is really big in China. Well, okay, I said really 725 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: big in China. It's very influential in a very small 726 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: subcultural anarchist scene in China. But I'm talking about them 727 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: because it heavily influenced Like the people who wrote the 728 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: Lying Flat manifesto, Um, we're like, we're very heavily influenced 729 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: by this stuff. Oh okay, okay, So we did the 730 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: episode about this a while back, but Lying Flat was 731 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: this thing in China, I guess still going on, but 732 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: like people were just like it's kind of it was 733 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: kind of the version of anti work or a most 734 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: people like discovered diogenes and or like what if I 735 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: just didn't work? What if I just like lived on, 736 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: like I worked like one day a month then lived 737 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: on like nothing so I didn't have to work? Or 738 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: if I just quit. What if I just like stop 739 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: doing all of this capitalist stuff, and what if I 740 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: like stop having to deal with this patriarchy. What if 741 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: I just like, you know, yeah, and it takes kind 742 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: of like yeah, yeah, they're they're great. They lots of 743 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 1: on diogenies quotes, lots of like the manifesto they released 744 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: is like very it's like very anarchist and yeah, like 745 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: that whole thing, and that was like like this, this 746 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: is a big enough social movement that like like she 747 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,959 Speaker 1: jumping like mentioned it in a speech, Okay, and so yeah, 748 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: like Jenny's anarchism still influence to this day, a big 749 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: deal for them. They were kind of kind of concerned 750 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: a that like this the same way a whole bunch 751 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 1: of like oligarchs got concerned about the anti work stuff 752 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: and you saw like anti work hit pieces in the 753 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: past like six months. It was, yeah, it's like similar 754 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: things being like, well, this better not catch on more 755 00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: because that could really suck for us. That's as optimistic 756 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: of a note as you could possibly get out of 757 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: the story, which is that they're still around and they 758 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: still influence things that matter, and hopefully they don't fight 759 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: each other more than the state. Yeah, don't don't do that, 760 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: Like I like, yes, I guess I will make my 761 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: controversial Sometimes it's okay to stab an abuser under the 762 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: throat stance. But also, don't purge all your syndicalists because 763 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: on the accusation of Bullshevism hot take, don't purge all 764 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: your synthey classes. Yeah, don't systematize violence like that. You know, 765 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: you're like, this individual guy just did this thing, and 766 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm real upset that he just did it to me, 767 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: And there's like a throat. I'm not actually making an 768 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: actual advocacy. I'm talking about how sometimes when that has 769 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: happened in history that seemed kind of cool. But yeah, 770 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: not the not the systemic kick out all the people 771 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: who have this minor I mean, it's really funny to 772 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 1: me because I'm like, I'm like huge anti infighting. Then 773 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: people are like, don't you spend all your time fighting 774 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: tankies on the internet, And I'm like, they want to 775 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: make a state that's different. Yeah, they believe that they 776 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: everyone should be thrown in jail. That is a different thing. Um. Also, 777 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: I don't like you've got to manage to polycuele drama. 778 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: Like you gotta manage. It's got to be kept under control. 779 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: You cannot allow your retire your steam to be factionalized 780 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: over rival polyuels and anarchists control your polycuel drama quotations 781 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: and parties impossible. See, that's why you just need more. 782 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: Maybe it's true, it's like you need more multigenerational anarchists 783 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: because I think people in their forties give less of 784 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: a ship about a lot of the trauma. But then 785 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe that's not true. Maybe people on their 786 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: bodies keep just as much of a ship about all 787 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: the trauma. Anarchism wonderful idea. Yep, yeah, that's good. And 788 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,320 Speaker 1: speaking of wonderful ideas, it is time for us to 789 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: do the plugs. Um. First, I just want to plug 790 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus is new cool Zone Media podcast Goes Church 791 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: by Jamie Loftus. Uh. By the time this drops, episode 792 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: one will be out in episode two will be dropping 793 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: the next Monday, I believe, yes exactly. And we also 794 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: have another podcast on Coolson Media with one Margaret Killjoy 795 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: it called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff? Margaret, you 796 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: wanted to tell us about that? Oh sho? Should I 797 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: start working on that. I'll get it done by monday, okay, 798 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: cool Um, I have a new podcast called cool People 799 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff, which is as about cool people 800 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: who did did cool stuff, and you might like it 801 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: if you like stories about people who. Um, I can't 802 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: say cool stuff again, I'll have to use come up 803 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: with more synonyms. Really, it's just all a competition to 804 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: see how many synonyms for cool I can come up 805 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: with without using the word based, because I feel like 806 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: I'm too old to use the word based without really, 807 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: this is what you are here for. So I'm much 808 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: more eloquent on my podcast, which you can catch every 809 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: Monday and Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts, probably wherever 810 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: you got this podcast is where you can find it. 811 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: And the trailer is out now, so you can go 812 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: and you can listen to the trailer where I talk 813 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: about some anarchist bank robbers who broke out of prison, 814 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: because why would you be in prison when you could 815 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: be outside of prison, which is generally the preferable position 816 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: to be in, with the exception of like every now 817 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 1: and then, like people break up out of jail by 818 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: like someone goes to jail on purpose, but they have 819 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: like hacks all blades in their shoes and ship. That 820 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: would be cool too. Um So more breaking your friends 821 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: out of jail and less chasing them out of the 822 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: room jeering at them is my general rule. I hate 823 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: to make rules, but if I were to make one, 824 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: it would be that. And you can hear me talk 825 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: about those kinds of stories on the podcast. Well, thank 826 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: thank thank you so much for joining joining us today, 827 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: for for Chris to talk about the wonderful, wonderful history 828 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: of Japanese centricism and the many, the many deaths that 829 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: are associated in those poor people and yeah, the like 830 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: so basically like a like a mini Korean genocide. Yeah, yeah, intense. 831 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: Well that's it for us today. You can find this 832 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: suit on Instagram. It happen to your pot in cool 833 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: sound Media. Uh see you next week and go listen 834 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: to podcasts. We have many of them. It could happen 835 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,879 Speaker 1: here as a production of cool Zone Media. But more 836 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone 837 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 838 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 839 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated 840 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks 841 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: for listening.