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Speaker 1: Mexico and the US know very well the danger that

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Speaker 1: these people are facing their own countries, knowing that they

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Speaker 1: made a plan to put these people in some of

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Speaker 1: the most dangerous places in Mexico. So something that we

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Speaker 1: learned and this report shows is the dark side of humanity.

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Speaker 2: From Futuro Media, it's let you know usay. I'm Maria

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Speaker 2: inn Posa. Today in Lavoca de Lobo, in the Mouth

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Speaker 2: of the Wolf, we hear from Mexican researchers about Mexico's

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Speaker 2: failure to protect asylum seekers stuck waiting. This week, President

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden was inaugurated as the forty six president of

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Speaker 2: the United States. High on his legislative agenda are promises

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Speaker 2: to reform the country's immigration system and to attempt to

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Speaker 2: undo Donald Trump's most controvert policies. One of those policies

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Speaker 2: is the Migrant Protection Protocols known as MPP or the

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Speaker 2: Remain in Mexico policy. Under the program, established in January

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Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen, nearly sixty eight thousand asylum seekers have

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Speaker 2: been ordered to wait in Mexico as their asylum cases

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Speaker 2: make their way through the US system. The weight can

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Speaker 2: often take years now, and it can often be deadly.

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Speaker 2: In fact, that's what I witnessed last year when Latino

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Speaker 2: USA visited what is in Mexico's northern border and later

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Speaker 2: on Dapachula all the way on the southern border with Guatemala.

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Speaker 2: I was there to meet with asylum seekers who were

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Speaker 2: living in shelters and in parks on the streets, and

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Speaker 2: with Mexican government officials who denied working with the United

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Speaker 2: States on immigration policy, even when we were witnessing taking

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Speaker 2: place right in front of our eyes.

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Speaker 3: CBP receive adies personas o nos cameos and illumero bentiocho.

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Speaker 2: CBP will see ten people today, number nineteen thousand, four

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty eight. A Mexican official calls this out

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Speaker 2: to a large room.

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Speaker 3: Quatra pjuatrocentos trenta.

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Speaker 2: The person holding the number approaches the official to say

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Speaker 2: that they're here.

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Speaker 3: Quatrocentos trent You know quatros quatrores quat.

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Speaker 2: Mexican officials won't admit on the record that they're managing

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Speaker 2: the list. They know that working with the US on

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Speaker 2: this would be controversial. In our two part series The

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Speaker 2: Moving Border, we broke down the ways that Mexico had

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Speaker 2: become integral in Trump's plan to build the border, even

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Speaker 2: if the actual border wall was a paper one built

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Speaker 2: on seemingly impenetrable policies. The asylum seekers I met in

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Speaker 2: Mexico shared harrowing stories of crime and abuse, and vulnerability

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Speaker 2: and desperation, both at the hands of criminals and of

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Speaker 2: the police and authorities while waiting in border towns, and

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Speaker 2: all of this coupled with the fear of being deported

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Speaker 2: by the country that was supposed to be offering them protection.

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Speaker 2: After Mexico boasted about its highest number ever of deportations

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Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen, a group of Mexican researchers and migrant

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Speaker 2: advocates set out to document just how extensive the involvement

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Speaker 2: has been between the United States and Mexico and how

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Speaker 2: this collaborative effort allows policies like the Remain in Mexico

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Speaker 2: program to flourish. Their research is published in a new

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Speaker 2: report titled in La Boca de Lobo in the Mouth

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Speaker 2: of the Wolf, and it was released last month. Our

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Speaker 2: guests today join us from Mexico City. They're Alicia Moncada,

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Speaker 2: who's a human rights investigator at the Foundation for Justice

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Speaker 2: and the Democratic State of law and Gretchen Kuhner, who's

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Speaker 2: director of the Institute for Women in Migration and welcome

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Speaker 2: Alicia and Gretchen to Latin New USA.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Maria, so that both.

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Speaker 2: Of you were part of a group of Mexican researchers

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Speaker 2: that led an investigation into the lasting effects of this

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Speaker 2: so called Remain in Mexico program, which essentially forces asylum

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Speaker 2: seekers to wait in Mexico even though they're actually seeking

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Speaker 2: asylum in the United States. Why was it so important

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Speaker 2: for you to look into this issue right now?

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Speaker 1: Well, Maria, the US and Mexico have been pushing migrant

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Speaker 1: policies against the most vulnerable people in our region, people

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Speaker 1: who are running from the danger that they face in

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Speaker 1: their home countries, people who are seeking for international protection

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Speaker 1: so they can stay alive. In this report, we document

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Speaker 1: how the US Mexico Joined Declaration and the Migration Agreement,

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Speaker 1: as well as these Remaining Mexico program are having human

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Speaker 1: effects in terms of human rights violations against assidum seekers.

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Speaker 1: Some of these cities on the States have been recognized

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Speaker 1: as the most violent places in Mexico, like Tamaulipas, places

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Speaker 1: where the US Department does not recommend that American citizens visit.

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Speaker 1: So in this report we document cases of violence and

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Speaker 1: serious crimes against these people, such as murder, kidnapping, disappearance,

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Speaker 1: and multiple forms of gender violence. The Mexican government had

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Speaker 1: promised temporary permission for these people to remain in Mexico

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Speaker 1: as well as the rights to jobs, health and educations

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Speaker 1: while they await the outcomes of their assylum process, but

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Speaker 1: has not fulfilled these commitments. So literally they are in

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Speaker 1: the mouth of the world.

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Speaker 2: What kind of danger are we talking about when we're

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Speaker 2: talking about these refugees being in La Boco.

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Speaker 4: So we've had cases, you know, of people who are

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Speaker 4: in MPP and many of the cases that we've represented,

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Speaker 4: the people have been kidnapped, We had a young girl

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Speaker 4: who was sexually assaulted, and some people have you know,

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Speaker 4: even been murdered. The title of the document comes from

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Speaker 4: a direct quote from one of the asylum seekers that

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Speaker 4: we interviewed, and I think that he was talking about

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Speaker 4: the situation at that time in Nuevo Laredo where people

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Speaker 4: were being sent back and literally from the immigration offices

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Speaker 4: in Mexico. They were being sent to a bus station

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Speaker 4: and the kidnappers were there waiting for them. And what

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Speaker 4: happens is that people are taken to homes in remote

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Speaker 4: places and then they're family members in the United States

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Speaker 4: are contacted, and so we started collecting some videos and

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Speaker 4: audio tapes of the families would take in the US

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Speaker 4: of the kidnappers talking to them and telling where to

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Speaker 4: send them money.

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Speaker 2: You spent a year in research talking with people. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you were prepared to hear some of the horror stories,

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Speaker 2: but was there something that just really took you aback.

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Speaker 1: Mexico and the US know very well the danger that

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Speaker 1: these people are facing their own countries, and knowing that

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Speaker 1: they made a plan to put these people in some

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Speaker 1: of the most dangerous places in Mexico. So something that

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Speaker 1: we learned and this report shows is the dark side

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Speaker 1: of humanity. Remind us of the very dangerous periods of

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Speaker 1: history where those in powered desire, who deserve to live,

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Speaker 1: and who deserve to die or live under these inhuman conditions.

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Speaker 1: And we saw the courage of boys, girls, mothers and

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Speaker 1: fathers that are trying hard to save their life and

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Speaker 1: their families. So we wanted to expose this consequence, the

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Speaker 1: consequences of remain in Mexico, and that is definitely a

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Speaker 1: measure and was designed to make legal processes more difficult.

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Speaker 1: We are also very surprised by the complicity of the

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Speaker 1: Mexican government in the strategy created by the Trauma administration.

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Speaker 4: And one of the things that was most surprising to

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Speaker 4: me was the Mexican government started paying for buses to

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Speaker 4: basically ship people to the Mexican Guatemalan border where they

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Speaker 4: could self deport. I mean, they did everything except to

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Speaker 4: push them back over the border. And the reason that

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Speaker 4: they said that they were doing this is because people

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Speaker 4: were in so much danger, especially in Monterrey because of

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Speaker 4: the kidnappings.

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Speaker 2: Did you find that Mexico violated any of its own

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Speaker 2: national laws or international laws in the remain in Mexico policy.

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Speaker 4: So the MPP program is basically like a transfer agreement,

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Speaker 4: and transfer agreements internationally when they occur or have to

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Speaker 4: include guarantees for due process. What we found was that

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Speaker 4: Mexico knew that this agreement was going to violate due

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Speaker 4: process right. What's a due process right That you have

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Speaker 4: information that you understand your procedure, that you can have

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Speaker 4: access to legal representation, that you can have communication that

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Speaker 4: you know things are explained to you in your own

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Speaker 4: language that you have, you know, time to explain what

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Speaker 4: has happened to you, why you left, that you're in conditions,

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Speaker 4: you know, and what you're not, you know, completely terrified

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Speaker 4: for your own life while you're trying to apply for

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Speaker 4: asylum at the same time. And so what we did

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Speaker 4: was we filed a lawsuit in April of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 4: you know, against the Mexican government's participation in an MPP

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Speaker 4: which is now sitting at the Mexican Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: And we are are.

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Speaker 4: Doing that Mexico violated due process rights, non rufumont guarantees

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Speaker 4: and family unity and a whole string of other rights

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Speaker 4: that people would have just as basic human rights, such

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Speaker 4: as access to housing, healthcare, education for their children. And

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Speaker 4: so that lawsuit is sitting there now. And as Alicia says,

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Speaker 4: you know, we've also filed litigation against, you know, the

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Speaker 4: legality of a national guard participating in immigration enforcement actions,

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Speaker 4: and that's sitting at the Mexican Supreme Court as well.

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Speaker 4: So I think that the violations of the Mexican Constitution

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Speaker 4: and other laws is very clear.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, the rise of COVID nineteen

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Speaker 2: and how Mexico's populis president, who once campaigned for migrants' rights,

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Speaker 2: has set a new record for deportations. Stay with us, Yes, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're back. Before the break, we were speaking with Mexican

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Speaker 2: researchers Alicia Monada and Gretchen Kuhner about their new report

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Speaker 2: titled La Boca the Lobo The Mouth of the Wolf.

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Speaker 2: It breaks down the ways Trump's so called Remain in

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Speaker 2: Mexico policy has placed asylum seekers in life threatening danger

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Speaker 2: as they wait for their US cases in Mexico. When

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Speaker 2: we were down in Mexico reporting one year ago in

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Speaker 2: the beginning of twenty twenty, we had no idea what

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Speaker 2: was about to come. And COVID nineteen really has altered

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Speaker 2: everything in the entire world, but very specifically. One of

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Speaker 2: the things that you mentioned in your report is that

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Speaker 2: various health organizations are citing the failure of the Mexican

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Speaker 2: government to specifically protect asylum seekers from exposure to COVID

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Speaker 2: as they are forced to wait in Mexico. So, how

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Speaker 2: has COVID nineteen basically changed the picture.

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Speaker 4: One of the things that the US did in March

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Speaker 4: was to start implementing this Center for Disease Control Order

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Speaker 4: allowing the US government to expel people immediately who were

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Speaker 4: crossing the border, and then Mexico co agreed to accept

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Speaker 4: up to one hundred Central Americans per day as part

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Speaker 4: of those people being expelled. That was a pretext for

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Speaker 4: you know, allowing the US to send people back without

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Speaker 4: having asylum screening, just this like summary expulsions. And the

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Speaker 4: Mexican government has also participated, you know, by accepting Central

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Speaker 4: Americans and then detaining them and lots of times supporting them.

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Speaker 4: People who are in MPP who have also had their

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Speaker 4: hearings postponed until further notice. And so you have twenty

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Speaker 4: four thousand people who are still in proceedings right now

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Speaker 4: under MPP, you know, who have had their hearings postponed,

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Speaker 4: and so that's been a horrible thing for them because

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Speaker 4: they've had to wait out, you know, the whole entire

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Speaker 4: process in Mexico with COVID, you know, some of them

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Speaker 4: living in shelters, and with those people who are an

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Speaker 4: MPP who have managed to work and rent rooms, some

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Speaker 4: of them have lost their jobs and then they've tried

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Speaker 4: to go to shelters, but the shelters are then closed

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Speaker 4: as well because of COVID, and so it's been a horrible,

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Speaker 4: horrible situation for you know, people waiting under MPP because

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Speaker 4: I don't have anywhere to go. It's been impossible for

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Speaker 4: us to know, you know, what's happening in terms of

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Speaker 4: how many people have actually had COVID nineteen who are

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Speaker 4: in MPP. But you know, Mexico has basically been under

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Speaker 4: lockdown since March and the states along the border where

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Speaker 4: people are waiting are still under this you know, level

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Speaker 4: of alert that's very high. But the Mexican government hasn't

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Speaker 4: had a specific program to help people in terms of

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Speaker 4: you know, accessing healthcare.

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Speaker 2: How much is it actually a part of Mexican history

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Speaker 2: to treat asylum seekers in this way or is this

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Speaker 2: is this new in a response to this particular set

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Speaker 2: of policies right now.

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Speaker 4: The issue of immigrants has been on the bilateral agenda

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Speaker 4: for decades and decades, and what's changed is that Central

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Speaker 4: Americans have been leaving, especially Guatemala, hunters and El Salvador,

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Speaker 4: in much bigger numbers, and that these people are refugees.

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Speaker 4: You know, this whole issue of treating people like criminals

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Speaker 4: because they're fleeing from violence is something that I think

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Speaker 4: in our imaginations we have to change. These are people

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Speaker 4: who they are not able to live in their countries

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Speaker 4: any longer, and so there must be something, you know,

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Speaker 4: that we can do collectively to help these people. Mexico

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Speaker 4: has an asylum system, and they actually have sixty five

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Speaker 4: thousand cases that are pending as well, and the number

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Speaker 4: of people from Central America you know, who are requesting

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Speaker 4: asylum or applying for asylum in Mexico has also gone

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Speaker 4: up tremendously in the last several years.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that we were looking at

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Speaker 2: when we did our series of reports was the shift

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Speaker 2: from Mexican President Manuel Lopez o Radord and his campaign

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Speaker 2: promises of humane protection for asylum seekers. And then compare

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Speaker 2: that to what actually happened, which essentially is a partnership

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Speaker 2: of sorts between a so called leftist president Andres Manuel

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Speaker 2: Lopez o Brador and President Trump. And that sounds like

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Speaker 2: a bit of a strange kind of partnership, and yet

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Speaker 2: in fact it has occurred and it has allowed these

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Speaker 2: policies essentially to flourish.

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Speaker 1: So what happened, the Mexican government explanation is the possible

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Speaker 1: danger to our economy This is because the trudministration trending

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Speaker 1: to impose this stariff on Mexican sports if Mexico did

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Speaker 1: not stop the migratory flow to the United States. It

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Speaker 1: was within this context that the US Mexico Declaration was born.

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Speaker 1: This ultimatic forced Mexico to choose between these severe economic

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Speaker 1: ratifications or continue human rights violations against migrants, and sadly,

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Speaker 1: they chose the latter. Mexico decide to use the most

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Speaker 1: lethal force the army, to detain at the antiport migrants.

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Speaker 1: As a result, we are seeing a huge increase of

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Speaker 1: migrant deportation without any considerations of their needs for international protection.

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Speaker 1: We are seeing that Mexico is collaborating to build Trump's

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Speaker 1: border world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so let's talk about the wall. What does

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Speaker 2: exist now is an extraordinary militarization of the border and

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Speaker 2: essentially looking at people seeking asylum through a prism of

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Speaker 2: essentially national security as opposed to what it is, which

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Speaker 2: is a human rights issue. President Trump deployed thousands of

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Speaker 2: troops to the southern US border. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: along the time when we were hearing about the so

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Speaker 2: called caravans that was followed by by Mexican President Armlo's

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Speaker 2: own deployment of the newly created Guardia national to assist

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Speaker 2: in immigration enforcement in Mexico's own southern border. So increasingly Mexico,

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Speaker 2: it seems to me, is mirroring the United States in

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Speaker 2: terms of its immigration policies. So do you perceive the

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Speaker 2: same thing.

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Speaker 1: So what happened in twoy eighteen, the phenomenon of the

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Speaker 1: caravans allowed Trump to justify this militarization plan. He sent

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Speaker 1: the US and more than five thousand, two hundred military

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Speaker 1: soldiers in this operation, focusing on the borders of Texas, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: and California. For the same reason, we call say that

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Speaker 1: Mexico decided to send more than six thousand members of

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Speaker 1: the National Guard to the border shared by Mexico Gatemala

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Speaker 1: in June of nineteen, and before the month was over,

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Speaker 1: the Mexico sent fifty thousand soldiers and police agents to

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Speaker 1: the southern border because of this commitment with the United

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Speaker 1: States to reduce the flow of migrants. And now we

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Speaker 1: have more than two one hundred and fifty thousand soldiers

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Speaker 1: employed because of the execution of this containment strategy for

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. So the increase. The increased military presence generates

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Speaker 1: many negative consequences for migrants, including death and greater limitation

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Speaker 1: of their human rights, especially in the portation in terms

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Speaker 1: of deportation. By December of twenty nineteen, the Mexican authorities

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Speaker 1: proudly stated that the National Guard have facilitated the reduction

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Speaker 1: of the most important migratory flow in recent decades, a

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Speaker 1: reduction rate of seventy percent. So we know that in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen Mexico broke its historical record of deportation. It

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Speaker 1: is because of this massive deployer of the National Goal.

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Speaker 2: Right, So I have a feeling that the Mexican president

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Speaker 2: would probably take offense and not like it at all

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Speaker 2: when you say that he has actually built and become

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Speaker 2: Trump's border wall.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. When you talk to the Mexican government, what they

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Speaker 4: say is that it was a new government and they

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Speaker 4: were receiving a lot of pressure from the Trump administration

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Speaker 4: to sign as a third country agreement, and so MPP

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Speaker 4: was something that was offered kind of as Okay, this

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Speaker 4: is what we'll give you because we're not going to

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Speaker 4: sign a say, third country agreement. And I think that

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Speaker 4: along the way, the instruction from Manuel O Peese, Brodor was,

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Speaker 4: we are not going to enter into any type of

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Speaker 4: escalation or controversy with President Trump, and so we are

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Speaker 4: going to do what we need to do to you know,

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Speaker 4: make sure that there's no tension between her countries. And

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Speaker 4: if that takes, you know, sending out the national Guard

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Speaker 4: to stop people from coming in, then that's what we'll

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Speaker 4: have to do because there are you know, other issues

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Speaker 4: such as the economy that are at stake.

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Speaker 2: All right, So a few days after your report was

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Speaker 2: published in Mexico, the President of Mexico, Lopez Bradora, was

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Speaker 2: asked by a local reporter about it. He said he

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Speaker 2: wasn't aware of the report and then added that Mexico

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Speaker 2: has always protected asylum seekers. Then he also said that

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Speaker 2: Mexico never had a deal with the United States in

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Speaker 2: terms of immigration. Here's a clip from his response.

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Speaker 5: No, it's the funa, this is you and innings nada

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Speaker 5: almost not almost colonia, the num loss.

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Speaker 2: Mexico is doing what it wants. He says, we're not puppets,

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Speaker 2: We're not a colony, and then he actually goes on

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Speaker 2: to say something else. He says, basically, he's really happy

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Speaker 2: with what's happening. In terms of the remaining Mexico policy,

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Speaker 2: because then he says that now the Mexican government is

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Speaker 2: actually protecting migrants, taking care of them like they weren't

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Speaker 2: taking care of before.

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Speaker 5: Dio phenomenon migratorio no a la vido comantis says sinatus

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Speaker 5: migrantis comoa andormente pour que no are You're not politica,

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Speaker 5: you know'st here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, for those of us who have been on

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Speaker 2: the ground and who have spoken to people seeking asylum

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Speaker 2: and on the borders, this is a very different way

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Speaker 2: of seeing the world. What do you want to say

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Speaker 2: to President Lopez o Rador and his reaction to your

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Speaker 2: own fact finding report.

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Speaker 4: It's really unfortunate because he has a total disconnect with reality.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, I think for the organizations that are

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Speaker 4: working on the ground or working on litigation in Mexico,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's something that we're used to hearing. It's

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Speaker 4: because of pressure we you know, comply with human rights.

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Speaker 4: Those are the kinds of you know, rhetoric that we're

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Speaker 4: used to listening to. You know, we're not political. We

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Speaker 4: transcend administrations, presidents, et cetera. But you know, for the

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Speaker 4: people who have been kidnapped the people who have been raped,

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Speaker 4: the people who have been separated from their families, the

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Speaker 4: people who have been suffering. I just think that, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's just a tremendous insult and I don't know even

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Speaker 4: know what the word is, non recognition, negation of Actually

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Speaker 4: you know what the Mexican government has cost by complying

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Speaker 4: with MPP. I mean, at no point they said this

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Speaker 4: is too much, you know, we can't do it anymore.

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Speaker 4: We have to fix this problem. There are so many

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Speaker 4: things that they could have done along the way to

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Speaker 4: push back, and the Mexican government hasn't done that. And

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Speaker 4: so the only way that we can think of for

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Speaker 4: the Mexican government to have any kind of consequences for

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Speaker 4: this whole situation is through the litigation. And the other

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Speaker 4: thing that we decided to do was to file federal

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Speaker 4: criminal complaint, which we also filed the same day that

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Speaker 4: we presented the report, because we just felt like there

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Speaker 4: were so many people who had been kidnapped or who

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Speaker 4: had been raped and never had the opportunity to file

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Speaker 4: a criminal complaint locally because they were so scared.

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Speaker 2: We've been talking about what Mexico can and should do,

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Speaker 2: but really in terms of these polici. It starts in

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Speaker 2: the United States. Let's talk for a moment about what

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Speaker 2: you would like to see the Biden administration do in

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Speaker 2: terms of actually helping to have an impact on the

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Speaker 2: lives of people who right now are stuck in Mexico.

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Speaker 4: The first thing to do would be to eliminate the program,

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Speaker 4: that is, to stop sending people back so that there

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Speaker 4: aren't any more new cases. And then with the approximately

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Speaker 4: twenty four thousand people whose cases are still open, who

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Speaker 4: probably living along the Mexico US border, what we would

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Speaker 4: like to see happen is for the US government to

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Speaker 4: paroll those people in so that they can wait out

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Speaker 4: their cases, their asylum cases within the United States. And

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Speaker 4: then we would also hope that all of the people

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Speaker 4: who had to abandon their case but are still in

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Speaker 4: the system, we're hoping that the Biden administration can give

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Speaker 4: those people another opportunity to seek asylum in the US.

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Speaker 2: What's your reaction to President Biden saying you're going to

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Speaker 2: have to wait for potentially six more months to be

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Speaker 2: in a situation that many of these people seeking asylums

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Speaker 2: say is just untenable and frightening and scary.

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Speaker 4: I would say to President Biden that MPP, the people

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Speaker 4: who are waiting under MPP have already waited much much

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Speaker 4: longer than any asylum claim would normally take, and they're

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Speaker 4: living in these precarious, horrible conditions, and that ending MPP

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Speaker 4: in particular has to be a priority.

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Speaker 1: I think, adding to what Gretchen said, one of the

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Speaker 1: Bident concerns is racial justice. Now, this is also a

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Speaker 1: racial justice issue. We are talking about guaranteed rights to

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Speaker 1: people who have historically been denied the rights and that

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Speaker 1: are escaping discrimination and inequalities. So my hope is that

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Speaker 1: if the racial justice is a concern, will take this

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Speaker 1: situation with Remaining Mexico in consideration. Now is the time

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Speaker 1: for dismounting this.

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Speaker 2: Alicia and Gretchen, thank you so much for speaking with

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Speaker 2: me and for doing this very important work. I really

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Speaker 2: appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Madie, thank you.

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Speaker 2: And we have a very important update that took place

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Speaker 2: after this interview was taped. On President Biden's inauguration day,

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Speaker 2: the Department of Homeland Security announced the end of MPP

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Speaker 2: or the Remain in Mexico policy, suspending new enrollments in

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Speaker 2: the program. As of Thursday, people currently under the MPP

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Speaker 2: Migrant Protection Protocols program must remain where they are pending

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Speaker 2: further official information. COVID nineteen non essential travel restrictions at

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Speaker 2: the border were kept in place. This episode was produced

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Speaker 2: by Julieta Martinelli with help from Reinaldo Leanos Junior, and

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Speaker 2: edited by Andrea Lopez Grusavo. The Latino USA team includes

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Speaker 2: Niel Masis, Alises carce Gini montalbo, Alejandra Saasad and Julia Rocha,

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00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: with help from Marta Martinez and Raoul Perees. Our engineers

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Speaker 2: are Stephanie LAbau, Julia Caruso and Liah Shaw, with help

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00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: from Elishiba YouTube. Our digital editor is Luis Luna. Our

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Speaker 2: interns are Samantha Friedman and Carl Rubin. Our theme music

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00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: was composed by Zenie Robinos. If you like the music

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Speaker 2: you heard on this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org

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Speaker 2: and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host

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Speaker 2: and executive producer Marienno Posa. Join us again on our

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Speaker 2: next episode. In the meantime, look for us on all

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Speaker 2: of your social media. AI los veo c Ciao.

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Speaker 6: Latino USA is made possible in part by the John D.

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00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 6: And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the Ford Foundation, working with

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00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 6: visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide, and

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Speaker 6: the wind Coat Foundation.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'll tell you Maria is happy that we don't

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Speaker 2: have to show faces.

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Speaker 4: That's true.

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Speaker 2: I'm Maria Hosam. Next time on Latino USA. Fifty years

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Speaker 2: after President Nixon declared a so called war on drugs,

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Speaker 2: the US isn't any closer to winning it. We talk

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Speaker 2: about the movement for drug decriminalization and why no victory

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Speaker 2: is possible without health and social justice. That's next time

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Speaker 2: on Latino USA.